Archive: 19 posts

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Hey folks. I'm about 85% finished with my next level, but I've hit a fairly sizable snag with it. I have one section that is reminiscent of the conveyor section of The Bunker (the MM one), and the game diverges everytime at this point. This isn't an issue in single player, but in multiplayer the extra players get kicked each time. I can replicate it in create mode, and the problem goes away as soon as I delete the conveyor. It's totally weird though, because it only seems to kerplode when you are right next to it. I am using rtm's waterfall/conveyor method for my conveyors. There are two, and the problem occurs at either. I'm wondering if the system can just not handle them, or what? I have a max number of conveyor pieces emitted at 10 for each of them. This is the first I've heard of any issues relating to them. In addition, I have had a problem with diverges on my final boss (in both this level and the chase for Cloudy with a Chance of Teamwork). Both of those had large physics objects passing through gas at high speeds, so I assumed that it was related to that. I resolved the problem by just slowing the objects down. Is it something different, as in I am taxing the physics system too much? This level has a large number of moving parts and a lot of gas. Help anyone?

2010-05-20 02:16:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Diverge errors ARE indeed caused by ssingle objects or multiple specific objects in levels the majority of times. My recomendation is to remake that object from scratch as its possible the object is corrupted (not unusable corrupted, a different kind of corruption) so yeah, my best recomendation is remake the object, delete the old one (from popit and level) and replace it with the new one, that SHOULD fix it indeed. At least theat's the easiest/ fastest way i know of fixing this problem, there are other methods, but i'd reccomend you try this one first m8. Hope that helps!

2010-05-20 02:25:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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Are you using the emitter glitch on those to save a bit of thermo? Might be that in reality you blew it due to overloading the memory available of the level/game.

2010-05-20 02:54:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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No emitter glitches. Just emitters emitting platforms on pistons. I haven't used the glitch at all and still have 2.5 bars of thermo left.

2010-05-20 03:22:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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So that's why we kept -- kerploding. I don't have any help to give you, but do you think doing tests to see if this is recreatable would be beneficial?

2010-05-20 03:37:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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No emitter glitches. Just emitters emitting platforms on pistons. I haven't used the glitch at all and still have 2.5 bars of thermo left. Wow... no clue. Oh wait! How many hidden ducky stickers? lol Interesting that it happens when you are next to them though. Possibly suggests graphics rendering gets blown if you have them running the entire time. There are a ton of moving objects in the level, but kinda strange it is right at those two points rather than any other bunch of moving items. You say you deleted one and it stops happening. Does it stop regardless of which one you pull? Might be interesting to do a save as and experiment a bit.

2010-05-20 03:46:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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The first thing I would try is Silverleon's suggestion to completely rip it out and build it from scratch. If that doesn't fix it, the next thing I would try is altering the way it syncs: rather than letting the emitter's frequency setting run things, make a timer that outputs a one-shot signal to the emitter at set intervals. Actually, maybe I'd try that before building a new one from scratch, depending on how complex it is.... which brings me to my next thought: how complex are the geometry, stickers, and decorations on the emitted part? I don't have anything to base this on, but I wonder if repeatedly emitting an overly complex object might screw with the connection between players. One last thing you might try: turn the grid off and shorten the emitted platforms a tiny bit so that they're not quite touching when they emit. It may be that the timing between the host and guest might be off just enough that the objects overlap a tiny bit on the guest's system, which could be worked around by giving them a bit of breathing room. As for the boss thing, do you have multiple gas objects intersecting each other and any solid objects at the same time? I had a problem with the chase sequence at the end of War of Soul's ch1 (can't remember if it was a diverging problem or an outright system crash--pretty sure it was diverging, though). Turns out the wall of gas that chases the player was intersecting another block of gas that had retracted into the floor earlier in the level. I solved the problem by having that other block of gas pulled up above the play area where it wouldn't get in the way of anything. If that's not your problem, then we probably need more details to try to figure it out.

2010-05-20 10:08:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Yeah, i was with morgana (Oh my!) sampling her new level, and before the boss battle, it would diverge...

2010-05-20 10:29:00 Author: Joshofsouls Posts: 1569

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The first thing I would try is Silverleon's suggestion to completely rip it out and build it from scratch. If that doesn't fix it, the next thing I would try is altering the way it syncs: rather than letting the emitter's frequency setting run things, make a timer that outputs a one-shot signal to the emitter at set intervals. Actually, maybe I'd try that before building a new one from scratch, depending on how complex it is.... which brings me to my next thought: how complex are the geometry, stickers, and decorations on the emitted part? I don't have anything to base this on, but I wonder if repeatedly emitting an overly complex object might screw with the connection between players. I plan to rebuild it tonight. The emitted objects are just simple rectangles of metal. It's really nothing complex. I'm going to try and make the conveyor pieces larger and just use fewer of them. One last thing you might try: turn the grid off and shorten the emitted platforms a tiny bit so that they're not quite touching when they emit. It may be that the timing between the host and guest might be off just enough that the objects overlap a tiny bit on the guest's system, which could be worked around by giving them a bit of breathing room. Interestingly, I had a tiny, tiny gap already. Methinks that didn't help any. As for the boss thing, do you have multiple gas objects intersecting each other and any solid objects at the same time? I had a problem with the chase sequence at the end of War of Soul's ch1 (can't remember if it was a diverging problem or an outright system crash--pretty sure it was diverging, though). Turns out the wall of gas that chases the player was intersecting another block of gas that had retracted into the floor earlier in the level. I solved the problem by having that other block of gas pulled up above the play area where it wouldn't get in the way of anything. If that's not your problem, then we probably need more details to try to figure it out. That actually sounds right for each of my bosses. The Cloudy boss had several gassed lights overlaying normal gas. This one has two gassed lights overlapping. Thanks!

2010-05-20 11:41:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Help anyone? Remind me to have a look later on. I'm not 100% on what causes diverge errors, but I think it's something like this... When you play, say, a two-player game of LBP, both PS3 are effectively running the same simulation at the same time, but if one of the simulations should behave slightly differently for some reason, then the two simulations will go out of sync, and the code which synchronizes both players' actions across the network will no longer be able to reconcile the resulting divergent behaviour of the two simulations. Now, theoretically, given the same initial level state, and the same simulation rules, this should never happen, so it's either:- the result of poorly-handled dropped packets and/or major network latency between the two players the result of exploiting some 'glitch' in the game which is not correctly serialized through the network connection, as it represents a case which was never expected to happen, and thus never accounted for by the programmers First of all, I'd create a level which only contains the suspect object to confirm that it's definately just that object, and not the interaction between that object and something else in the level, and strip down the object to the bare minimum required to trigger the fault. This should give a good indication as to exactly which part of the object is problematic, which might in itself point to the underlying cause. Then it's just a case of tweaking the problematic section until it works, or if all else fails, try rebuilding that section from scratch.

2010-05-20 15:41:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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That actually sounds right for each of my bosses. The Cloudy boss had several gassed lights overlaying normal gas. This one has two gassed lights overlapping. Thanks! Hope that's it and it works out for you. I dunno if it'd make a difference if the various gasses were glued together or not, and I'm not sure if just having gas intersect is a problem or if they have to be intersecting a solid object as well. Back to the conveyor. Maybe it has something to do with the emitted dark matter and pistons overlapping? But Rtm style conveyors have worked in other levels without diverging, haven't they? Dunno' if it has anything to do with anything, but I'm curious: does the piston connect to the dark matter on the same side as the platform, or does it go through the dark matter from the other side? if that made any sense at all I'm grasping at straws at this point, but it's like Aya said: it shouldn't happen. Something is causing the two ps3s to do the same action differently and we just don't know much about that kind of thing. That's also why I suggested trying an external logic device to control the emitter's sync: if the emitter's timing isn't staying in sync between the two ps3's, an external timer may have better luck. Oh, and Aya, you forgot number 3 on your list. 3. A bug in the game's programming.

2010-05-20 19:33:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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But Rtm style conveyors have worked in other levels without diverging, haven't they? I've certainly used one before in a multiplayer game and had no issues. 3. A bug in the game's programming. Erm. Both #1 and #2 are bugs, but I guess #3 could be "a bug which is neither #1 or #2". #1 would be a particularly bad one, as it could potentially affect all levels, whereas arguably #2 can be blamed on the creator for using glitches.

2010-05-20 19:55:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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The good news is you may have just invented a 1 play only gate. Put it at the start of your level and if you have more than one player, the others get kicked. Always look on the bright side of things.

2010-05-20 20:54:00 Author: Doopz Posts: 5592

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Hey! I got one too! Coincidentally, I also used RTM's conveyor method... And gas... I used the glitch with 3 different objects, and it hasn't happened until I added the third, so I'll test it out too. Maybe it could be fixed by modifying it somehow? May wanna be careful with the testing... Josh Of Souls knows what I'm talking about... We tried playing my level, and it diverged one out of three people. This made both of our screens keep spamming us with "Game has diverged" error messages. Maybe we could test it together? No? Didn't think so. Although, it'd be interesting to see what happens when 2 different objects glitch out like that at once... Probably nothing, but... Meh...

2010-05-20 22:06:00 Author: KlawwTheClown Posts: 1106

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I was going to ask you about this tonight comphermc. JoshofSouls, Claptonfann, Chuck and I were playing my boss last night and it kept diverging in the same spot too. the only gas in it is in his breath (gassed lights) and the funniest thing is how many times have we played that thing with no problem, NOW it diverges every time with four players. What I ended up doing is playing it with Josh and I alone and it was fine.... so it's something to do with too much info with four players in there or Aya's idea of dropped packets/bad connection between players. I'm hoping that it's not something I have to rebuild that area for though... eeek!

2010-05-20 22:25:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983

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Merged objects definitely makes divergence more likely. I tend to get diverged a lot on 50 layer levels (where, in terms of layers, the background shares the back thin layer and objects are merged). Also, I will hear the click of something breaking in a level, which incidentally often occurs when two objects collide and attempt to merge, and the divergence error will pop up almost immediately afterwards. When making the conveyors for CyberFox II (thanks rtm) obviously I used the grid, but there are also larger-than-necessary spaces concealed under the platforms where the pieces emit and disappear. Before they were put in the chevron segments tended to get stuck in the slots and would lock up before disappearing. I don't know if this is the case with your belt, as you say there are tiny gaps between the segments (as there were in mine too). Something else I found was when copying the emitter and flipping it over to make the belt move in the other direction, sometimes it didn't quite line up, would this be an issue? EDIT: Just realised I haven't offered an alternative solution but just rambled. Sorry, it's 11am and I'm tired

2010-05-20 22:53:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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Haha. Thanks, guys. I remade it and successfully played it with Morgana. I will consider that fixed, I s'pose. It must have been something funky with that conveyor. ??? At any rate, it works now!

2010-05-21 21:28:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Good to hear. Do you think doopz's 1-player-only idea could work? ?

2010-05-21 22:19:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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Ooo yes it certainly works very well ... it manages to kill me every time =].

2010-05-22 01:15:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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