Archive: 43 posts

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http://img175.imageshack.us/img175/1651/photo039p.jpg Obviously nothings ever final with patching as an option but it's best to be prepared for this happening rather then hyping yourselves for months then getting let down.

2010-05-11 12:43:00 Author: Rabid-Coot Posts: 6728

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What a convenient hole =P. I guess this isn't expected but.....wait....we can play the LBP1 Story levels?!!!??!?!?!?

2010-05-11 12:45:00 Author: Snappyguy Posts: 710

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Just the fact that we can 'possibly' get all the levels to look nicer with LBP2 is enough for me. Hell, my LBP disk will still exist, right? Thanks for the info.

2010-05-11 12:46:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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What are some examples of player's transparency that might not work? I'm not clear on this..

2010-05-11 12:47:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513

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I think like very small Dark Matter to make invisible walls. Or what ever that other invisible one was.

2010-05-11 12:48:00 Author: Snappyguy Posts: 710

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Will levels that use layer glitch/ thermo glitch have difficulties to get trough lbp2?

2010-05-11 12:51:00 Author: thi766 Posts: 135

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Perhaps the oh so convenient super thin invisible walls and invisible thin-layer gas walls will not be as invisible anymore?

2010-05-11 12:52:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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Perhaps the oh so convenient super thin invisible walls and invisible thin-layer gas walls will not be as invisible anymore? Oh I do hope ever so much that MM has added something to replace us having to shrink down dark matter.

2010-05-11 13:01:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513

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All "non hacked" levels will be ok, I don't see a problem. If Anti-color don't work anymore or some other glitches are fixed, it's for the better. Also, people will find other exploits so the fun will not be gone.

2010-05-11 15:08:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I'd imagine they're trying to make the change-over as hassle free as possible, so assuming we can edit old levels, you can just roll up your sleeves and fix anything.

2010-05-11 15:18:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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This is certainly to be expected. Of course I don't know if half the stuff I commonly use was intended as a feature or is a glitch. I really hope they fix the shape stroking so that it's possible to create sub-sackperson sized geometry without it dropping vertices/fine detail. The current behavior is pretty horrible; it's a simple polygon, please preserve all my carefully inserted vertices thank you! A change to the shape renderer could make existing geometry look slightly different as well (unless it's based on the version the geometry was created with)...I'm fine with that as long as it doesn't continue to plague me in LBP2! * Hopefully you'll just be able to set geometry to static and not have to glue dark matter "nails" to it...

2010-05-11 16:08:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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I don't know if half the stuff I commonly use was intended as a feature or is a glitch. . http://geekwhisperin.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/bug-vs-feature.jpg . .......................

2010-05-11 16:27:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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. http://geekwhisperin.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/bug-vs-feature.jpg . ....................... Ahh, rtm223. We do love you.

2010-05-11 19:13:00 Author: KablooieKablam Posts: 364

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Why is it that people are worried about unintended applications of LBP1 features (read: glitches) going away? Most of the glitchy things people have been taking advantage of will most likely either a) be put to use in the form of an actual tool in LBP2 or b) already has such a limited application that it's unfortunate removal will only impact .00113% of the 2 million+ levels created in LBP1. Feel free to speculate about what 100% compatibility means to the average user, but keep in mind that the sky is certainly not falling. I'm curious to know how levels in general will look like with the new shadowing and transparency effects on certain objects.

2010-05-11 19:23:00 Author: schm0 Posts: 1239

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Teehee I misunderstood the title of this thread, I thought like you and your friend weren't gonna be able to unlock all the stuff in LBP1 before the release of LBP2 (y'know like bc being before christ, cause this is gonna be a game launch of biblical proportions)

2010-05-11 19:31:00 Author: Psibat Posts: 27

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Will they tell us which glitches are bad so I can remove them from my level?

2010-05-11 21:36:00 Author: warlord_evil Posts: 4193

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Will they tell us which glitches are bad so I can remove them from my level? I very much doubt it. The thing here is that LBP is a hugely complex system which allows for incredible flexibility in the user-generated content. Essentially, what I'm reading from the statement is simple "damage limitation". They can't guarantee everything will work as before, because the test vectors are effectively infinite. The main reason things won't work is because there will be some combination of things that they never managed to test. In essence, they probably won't know what won't work to be able to tell us. Realistically, we are likely to see excellent coverage of backwards compatibility and for most people, this shouldn't be an issue. It's going to be a case of testing your levels after the release to check for yourselves. Obviously it'll be horrible for anyone who does suffer from this, but I don't think it's something to worry about until the time comes

2010-05-11 22:44:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Eh. I doubt all the invisibility glitches will transfer to lbp2, but I'm not too worried, 'cuz I use invisible stuff to get around the game's limitations. Seems most of those will be done away in lbp2, so I won't need all the invisible stuff (if I can force something to remain upright, I won't need an invisible tilt sensor or invisible dark matter emitters, or an invisible block of superfloaty) I'm betting that glitched materials will still work: Mm used the material glitch in a lot of their objects, and they're certainly not gonna' break their own stuff when they're touting backwards compatibility. I'm not quite as sure about theck/thack, but I'm optimistic. Really, the only thing I expect to not work is invisible stuff.

2010-05-11 23:52:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I sure hope compressed objects still work.

2010-05-13 03:20:00 Author: Jagrevi Posts: 1154

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Is that the f word you censored? I'm a bit disappointed now.

2010-05-13 04:39:00 Author: JspOt Posts: 3607

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I wonder if i can still make all the gameplay objects HUGE.

2010-05-13 06:45:00 Author: CreateNPlay Posts: 1266

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Eh. I doubt all the invisibility glitches will transfer to lbp2, but I'm not too worried, 'cuz I use invisible stuff to get around the game's limitations. Seems most of those will be done away in lbp2, so I won't need all the invisible stuff (if I can force something to remain upright, I won't need an invisible tilt sensor or invisible dark matter emitters, or an invisible block of superfloaty). I'm actually really dreading seeing what the upgrade's going to do with my levels. I use tremendous amounts of invisible materials, not just a tiny block here and there, but full blown invisible moving contraptions. I'm absolutely fine with rebuilding bits here and there, but I'm doubtful whether or not it will be possible. For example the swingy poles in my last TR level were basically invisible strips of polystyrene on a thick layer glued into a hexagon, with a thin layer strip glued across the back of the shape to allow for a motor bolt and the nail object that produced the pole effect. Gosh, hard to explain lol - Will something like that be possible by other means, or will we still have access to invisible material of sorts anyway? Sorry if this has been discussed already, I've barely scratched the surface of all this info flying about. Any comments from those in the know, will be much appreciated.

2010-05-14 23:40:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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I use tremendous amounts of invisible materials Doh! I hadn't thought about your spinning poles (genius, btw!) For example the swingy poles in my last TR level were basically invisible strips of polystyrene on a thick layer glued into a hexagon, with a thin layer strip glued across the back of the shape to allow for a motor bolt and the nail object that produced the pole effect. Wow, I didn't realize they were so complicated. When I set out to figure out how you did it, I just used a solid invisible wheel. Why did you have to make it out of a bunch of strips? They haven't given us any specifics on which glitches won't be able to make the transition. I would think that anything graphical (such as making things invisible or distorting decos--Doh! That would affect you too, wouldn't it?) will be the most problematic with a new engine since it won't necessarily render everything exactly the same way. Whatever bit of code failed to render resized objects in lbp1 most likely won't be in lbp2 (though it's possible the new code might have the same glitch). I remember somebody talking about an option to toggle transparency on objects, but I don't think they cited an actual reference from Mm, so it's anybody's guess at this point. I sure hope compressed objects still work. I don't know if the compression tool will still work in lbp2 (it relies on overloading the game's physics engine to the point where it can't process collision--a new engine may not have the same weakness), but I would bet that anything already compressed and glued will be fine (I can just see myself switching back and forth between lbp and lbp2 to get the different glitches).

2010-05-15 00:25:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Doh! I hadn't thought about your spinning poles (genius, btw!) Wow, I didn't realize they were so complicated. When I set out to figure out how you did it, I just used a solid invisible wheel. Why did you have to make it out of a bunch of strips? Oh god, how on earth did you make an invisible wheel? - Haha, from the sounds of it I might have been doing some crazy work arounds needlessly lol. I have always had issues with things becoming visible unless they were built from straight lines though..? Very interested to hear how you pulled it off! Transparency toggle would be great, guess we'll just have to wait and see.

2010-05-15 00:42:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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I'll go ahead and look dumb by asking: what is a PRACTICAL use for compressed objects? My first and last encounter with it was somebody dropping a compression bomb in Create Mode, in order to intentionally crash my session.

2010-05-15 02:11:00 Author: coyote_blue Posts: 422

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I'll go ahead and look dumb by asking: what is a PRACTICAL use for compressed objects? My first and last encounter with it was somebody dropping a compression bomb in Create Mode, in order to intentionally crash my session. Someone did this to me, and I immediately deleted them as a friend. People can be really ignorant

2010-05-15 03:07:00 Author: nitewalker11 Posts: 222

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I'm guessing the 3-D layer glitch will be taken care of in LBP2, so it may be safer to get rid of background materials in levels if you want them to transfer over. MAYBE.

2010-05-15 04:20:00 Author: Sack-Jake Posts: 1153

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how on earth did you make an invisible wheel? Incinerator22 wrote a tutorial on it (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=17759-Creating-Editable-Invisible-Material-In-Seconds). what is a PRACTICAL use for compressed objects? I use it all the time. Sometimes it's for visuals: if I want two materials to intersect (generally one is thack and the other is thick) but I don't want the cutout effect (in particular, embossed cardboard can get some nasty cutout when you're doing small details). Check out this car (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=26340-Incredible-car) I made using the compressor. I've also posted pics of characters I've built in the compression tool tutorial thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=24434-Merging-Objects-or-Materials-aka-Compression-Tool). Just today I built a lightning gun for my new mech (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=26982-The-most-advanced-bipedal-mech-in-all-of-lbp) using two plasmafied squiggly lines of glass and an electrified one all compressed together. The gun itself uses compression to avoid the cutout beveling. The other thing I use it for is to make superfloaty. If I want a block of peach floaty that can lift an equal sized block of metal, I can compress 21 blocks of peach into one and it'll lift the metal. It also works for making things super-bouyant in water or super-heavy (though I haven't thought of a reason to make anything super heavy). I'm guessing the 3-D layer glitch will be taken care of in LBP2 Mm has said a couple times that they like what people have done with the 50 layer glitch. It's not a guarantee, but I'm betting they'll make it work. Maybe they'll even give us a proper tool to do it so we don't have to use the glitch any more.

2010-05-15 04:25:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I wouldn't worry too much about any layer glitched material in LBP2. Mm clearly stores a z value and depth for their objects otherwise all these mutant combinations wouldn't have been possible to begin with. I doubt they intend to change how they store the basic object properties so there's a really good chance they'll behave the same. I made some pretty nice honey bees out of eggs for my last level using the compression tool. To create the bees using emitters/dark matter would have been really tedious. It's a great little tool and super easy to use...I just try not to think about what it's doing to the game engine.

2010-05-15 05:43:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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I reckon they'll upload the ones they can. Lucky for me, that means all of my levels. I haven't used a single exploit.

2010-05-15 07:50:00 Author: Gavin Posts: 338

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I'm betting that glitched materials will still work: Mm used the material glitch in a lot of their objects, and they're certainly not gonna' break their own stuff when they're touting backwards compatibility. What's to say that those are glitched? I mean do Mm really have to resort to glitches to do something they want to in the game? For all we know, those could be materials that were simply not given to us to use, just like some of the hidden stickers and decorations. One point of interest is that the logo on the introduction level, some say it's in the glitched layers. However, Alex in a recent video stated about that glitch and they didn't know about it when the game shipped. So if it were in the glitched layers (it isn't). Then it were not put there through the use of a glitch. Like I say, Mm have no reason to jump through hoops to make a glitch in order to make something they want to. It would just be easier for them to tweak the code to get what they want done.

2010-05-15 09:33:00 Author: mnimmo1986 Posts: 552

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My two cents is that MM is working on materials and ideas to substitute glitches, like an invisible non-glitched material, thin layer gas, probably a tool to build in 3D, etc...

2010-05-15 09:55:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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What's to say that those are glitched? I mean do Mm really have to resort to glitches to do something they want to in the game? For all we know, those could be materials that were simply not given to us to use, just like some of the hidden stickers and decorations. Of course Mm didn't use an exploit to make them. They simply assign a shader (texture map, bump map, reflection map, and maybe a little more) and they assign a material property to it. Whatever bit of code that lets them do that is what we stumbled upon with the material glitch. That's why the seemingly glitched "secret materials" in many Mm objects are identical in many cases to the same materials we could produce using the material glitch (Aya has fused glitched materials into those Mm materials and they joined into one block, meaning they're exactly the same). Then again, maybe it's accidental for them at times. Take the mgs turrets with the cardboard gekko armor in them: it's completely hidden inside so there was no reason to make it look like gekko armor. And then there's the sponge gekko skin in the sackboy launcher: there's no reason you would need to grab it, so why did they make it sponge? Perhaps they didn't mean to. Alex in a recent video stated about that glitch and they didn't know about it when the game shipped. Hm, the way I heard it was that it was leftover code: like originally there weren't 3 specific layers you could create in, but they changed that (pretty early in development, I would guess, since I never saw a trailer featuring more than 3 layers), and the old code was still in there, which is what we stumbled upon with the 50 layer glitch.

2010-05-15 10:24:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Hm, the way I heard it was that it was leftover code: like originally there weren't 3 specific layers you could create in, but they changed that (pretty early in development, I would guess, since I never saw a trailer featuring more than 3 layers), and the old code was still in there, which is what we stumbled upon with the 50 layer glitch. I don't believe that was referring to the background and foreground outside of the playable area. But moreso of the playing area itself. Rather than having the materials in one of seven set layers, you could have a material that were what would now be, say 1.5 thick layers. And then you could move that material back and forth in the playable area pixel by pixel, again rather than in one of the set layers. (Aya has fused glitched materials into those Mm materials and they joined into one block, meaning they're exactly the same). Could be argued that while they are the same end result, they are just made in different ways. One (coincidentally) by a glitch, and the other Mm's way (no glitch). Having the same result doesn't guarantee that they were made in the same way.

2010-05-15 10:29:00 Author: mnimmo1986 Posts: 552

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Could be argued that while they are the same end result, they are just made in different ways. One (coincidentally) by a glitch, and the other Mm's way (no glitch). Having the same result doesn't guarantee that they were made in the same way. Didn't I just say that? Quit trying to pick a fight over piddling little details.

2010-05-15 10:36:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Didn't I just say that? Quit trying to pick a fight over piddling little details. I'm not trying to pick any fight, just making my point as I want to, just like you are.

2010-05-15 10:39:00 Author: mnimmo1986 Posts: 552

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Incinerator22 wrote a tutorial on it (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=17759-Creating-Editable-Invisible-Material-In-Seconds). Lol cheers, can't believe it's been common knowledge for so long - I feel like a pensioner with a new PC!

2010-05-15 11:16:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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Incinerator22 wrote a tutorial on it (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=17759-Creating-Editable-Invisible-Material-In-Seconds). Lol cheers, can't believe it's been common knowledge for so long - I feel like a pensioner with a new PC! Why did no one tell me?!

2010-05-15 11:20:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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going back to sehven'sl point, the fact that MM have objects that are comparable to the objects that are created using the material glitch is a good indicator that said glitch will still work in LBP2. The resultant object in the level file is the same, so if they keep it working for their levels, it stands to reason it will work in ours as well. The method used to get that data into the file is irrelevant as the engine is unaware of that. In honesty, I'd go as far as to say that the major / famous glitches, the ones that are used incredibly widely in the community and are very well known, will still work in LBP2.

2010-05-15 11:38:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Very well put. If I'd said it like that, maybe I wouldn't have gotten into an argument with minimiino... mininin... that guy whose name I can't say.

2010-05-15 12:17:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Mm has said a couple times that they like what people have done with the 50 layer glitch. It's not a guarantee, but I'm betting they'll make it work. Maybe they'll even give us a proper tool to do it so we don't have to use the glitch any more. I highly doubt they will give us a background tool. There are moving backgrounds now, I can see that being extremely glitchy. Mm might like what the community has dpwn with it, but it's still a huge bug and I wouldn't be surprised if they cut it from LBP2.

2010-05-15 14:34:00 Author: Sack-Jake Posts: 1153

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You know they could easily allow it to be done only on a blank background.

2010-07-19 14:57:00 Author: Screeno Posts: 153

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ehhhh, i was never a big fan of using hax any way, just dosent feel like its in the spirit of LBP, i alredy new anyway, Mm siad it in alot of the e3 vids :]

2010-07-19 19:39:00 Author: GSUSram Posts: 20

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