Archive: 11 posts

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The astounding MediaMolecule has announced yet another gaming tour de force. Amound the many amazing things promised us, MM has stated that LBP2 will be not just a platform game, but a game platform. With that in mind, I've composed some of my ideas on how some of the most common and popular game genres could be implemented. With that in mind... The Role-Playing Game Now, we have already seen the Sackbots. Those will do for enemies and NPCs. And the cutscene mechanic will help tell a compelling story. But to complete the bare minimum requirements for an RPG, we need one more thing- classes. Leveling-up, special-strenghts-and-weaknesses, classes. But how to do this in the simplest way possible for both MM and the players? Let's say that MM will provide the 4 basic classes every RPG needs, so that every player can be a different one; A hacker-slasher and tank, a long-range controller, a healbot, and a speedy sneaker. Or, to put it in more grandiose fantasy terms; a Fighter, a Mage, a Cleric, and a Rouge. To allow players to bein their quest, each one would be tied to a powerup. But these powerups are special. First off, they are persistent, meaning they stay with you throughout the level even if you die or pick up a new powerup (though in that case the old one will be "supressed.") You can only pick up one such powerup in the course of a level, so if you want to pick a new class, you'll have to start over. However, the class items can be "sheathed" so you can use other non-persistent powerups or just walk around without a sword in your hand. Now, each class powerup will have set parameters. You can tweak these to your liking. Each one has a value called "Level" which starts at 1. Level is dependent on XP, which goes up under conditions set by the creator. The creator can also set parameters for how much XP is needed to level up, the maximum level of a character, what stats (attack power and such) go up and how much at which levels, and other such simple options. These will provide the basic framework for an RPG system. More complex and unique options can be added through additional MM and Creator ingenuity. Tune in tomorrow for my ideas for a player-vs-player online came in the style of Team Fortress 2!

2010-05-10 23:21:00 Author: Azkazan Posts: 5

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I'm sure you could do almost all of this using the announced HUD feature. Use the HUD to track experience earned by various things and you could probably program something to happen (more health, magic, other stats, etc.) when you do level up. This sounds great I can't wait to see what kinds of levels are going to be made in LBP2

2010-05-11 02:49:00 Author: Fancy_Zombie Posts: 226

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I'm sure you could do almost all of this using the announced HUD feature. Use the HUD to track experience earned by various things and you could probably program something to happen (more health, magic, other stats, etc.) when you do level up. This sounds great I can't wait to see what kinds of levels are going to be made in LBP2 what he said...ive already made dibs on the FIRST RPG for LBP2 and made my thread and got some helpers...so ill let you know how RPGs will be done when my team gets the first level published

2010-05-11 03:18:00 Author: Shadowcrazy Posts: 3365

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I have one word for you, son: Metroidvania Lots of games are like this, games that have you collecting new tools to progress further into the levels. The grappling hook is going to makes this really cool, having areas that you require a grappling hook to enter. Or maybe the paintnator? Or maybe sticker switches? Or maybe the door just opens when you beat up some boss or something. I suppose you could tie in RPG elements as well, I wonder if we can change how many times you can be damaged before dying?

2010-05-11 03:34:00 Author: Karkle Posts: 11

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what he said...ive already made dibs on the FIRST RPG for LBP2 and made my thread and got some helpers...so ill let you know how RPGs will be done when my team gets the first level published Crap, Azkazan... Shadow called dibs on the first RPG. Sorry, man. Can't do it. You'll have to wait at least a few months after the game comes out. I mean, good try coming up with a plan and stuff, but dibs are dibs! I have one word for you, son: Metroidvania Yep, you're right on there. This type of genre is BEGGING to be made in LBP2, especially now with the new powerups and the ability to use badges to warp among levels. Let's hope you can define multiple level entrances, and I'm expecting the new "Bag" powerup will just be made for this type of thing. The Role-Playing Game As for the RPG plan... You're not really digging into HOW you're going to accomplish all of this. It's not safe to assume ANYTHING you need for an RPG will be premade and waiting for you when you dive into create. You're probably going to have to do it all from scratch, yourself. The classes, the unique skills, all of this stuff is something you're going to have to figure out and solve yourself, it won't be done for you by Mm. We don't know if you'll be able to carry progress over between levels. Mm might provide that option with badges, of being able to define if your level can carry over powerups, score, etc from another badge in another level. If not though, that's a big issue that will have to be solved for making RPGs in this game. Another issue is tracking XP and levelling up. XP shouldn't be too hard. I think Mario RPG is the best example. Don't scale up the amount of XP you need to level up. Keep it always the same, for example 100. Or, for simplicity's sake, let's say 10. 10 XP and you've got yourself a level up. You put a few enemies in your level, and the weak ones will give you 1 xp each - medium enemies give 2, and stronger ones give 3. Accumulating XP and providing the milestones for levelups is the easy part. But how do these levelups help your character? How do you handle combat? If you're going to define a turn-based system and have a system of stats for it, this is all stuff you're going to have to program using the game's logic tools. It might be a lot to chew on. It has been tackled to some degree on LBP, but the stakes are higher with LBP2 when we're going in expecting that RPGs will be a real possibility. And again - you might have to solve the problem yourself of carrying these stats between and among levels in the series. It might be easier to handle combat in more of an action way, like gauntlet or diablo. I'm sure we'll be able to attach emitters and machinery to sackbots, which should give you a way to wield swords and shoot projectiles complete with mag keys. One idea for handling level-ups is that you might have to GO SOMEWHERE to activate your levelup. Sort of like sleeping in Oblivion. Once you get your 10th XP, all other XP progress is frozen until you visit the level-up house. You go in... and at this point the old sackbot is now physically replaced with a new sackbot with a new sword that's got a shiny new BLUE mag key that does 2 damage instead of 1. It might be tricky to transfer control seamlessly from one sackbot to another without the user having to peek behind the curtain... maybe you can hide this transition during a cutscene? Should be safe to assume that an "inventory" system will be possible, considering there's a yet-to-be-unveiled powerup called "the Bag". It seems more like you're imagining what you'd like to see in an LBP RPG as a player, but you're not laying out a plan on how to handle the nuts-and-bolts process of actually creating it. Just don't get your hopes up that it'll be a streamlined and easy process - an RPG is surely one of the, if not THE MOST difficult thing to make work well in LBP2. I'm already anticipating a race when the game comes out to program a decent RPG engine. People will be making some insane microchips that lay out XP and stat/class/level up systems, and hopefully these talented souls will share them with the world.

2010-05-11 09:49:00 Author: Teebonesy Posts: 1937

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I call dibs on your moth....s that you keep in your attic. I will tell you later what we'll do with them.

2010-05-11 09:59:00 Author: BasketSnake Posts: 2391

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I think preprogrammed classes would be silly, to be honest. If Mm wants to build a "Platform for Games", they'll provide you with the tools to build classes yourself. In fact, most of this stuff you can already do in LBP1. I've drawn up some designs for an action RPG myself; the only problem I have not been able to solve is discerning multiple players, but LBP2 doesn't offer a solution to that either, as far as I know. Of course, sackbots + direct control will make everything look a lot better.

2010-05-11 13:26:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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The most exciting prospect is the possible ability to walk on the background, thus creating a top down 3D environment. Creating level layouts like the pokemon games could be easy enough (providing there are ramps to go up and down the layers). But as Teebonesy has talked about, it will be the mechanics and logic of making an RPG which will be the real challenge. Also, the dibs thing is silly. It's like saying that you're selfish and just want all the glory of being the first person to make an RPG. The only thing is, with wanting to be the first will mean a rushed project, meaning lesser quality.

2010-05-11 14:05:00 Author: ryryryan Posts: 3767

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I think preprogrammed classes would be silly, to be honest. If Mm wants to build a "Platform for Games", they'll provide you with the tools to build classes yourself. In fact, most of this stuff you can already do in LBP1. I've drawn up some designs for an action RPG myself; the only problem I have not been able to solve is discerning multiple players, but LBP2 doesn't offer a solution to that either, as far as I know. Of course, sackbots + direct control will make everything look a lot better. I think there is a solution to this in LBP2 actually. Just force players into control seats from the get-go and have them play as sackbots. That way, each player's separate sackbot can have be wired up differently to receive their own XP, etc.

2010-05-11 21:47:00 Author: Teebonesy Posts: 1937

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All this is quite valid. I understand perfectly that with DCSeat and Sackbots and such, making a game like this will be easy. But my idea has more to do with a game in which the player's own character assumes the role. It would be ideal if MM would provide an upgrade maker or means to customize existing upgrades, but unless that happens we'll need some things provided for us. Also... I am by no means suggesting that those 4 would be the only class options. I just used those for a simple example, as they are the 4 basic classes that fill each role in a party of adventurers. Belive me, I know a lot about other RPGs, even if I am not exactly the king of LBP creators. I mean, I sackin' plat Dungeons and Dragons, for crying out loud.

2010-05-12 01:27:00 Author: Azkazan Posts: 5

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I've played D&D, too, and a dozen other tabletop RPG's. I assure you, those four classes are not the basics of roleplaying, they're one interpretation, at most. Not every game is about dungeon crawling, some don't even use anything like classes. And even if they do, there are other ways to build a party, and even various ways to do those 4 classes. That's why I say: don't provide 4 classes, provide us with the means to build those classes, or others, whatever pleases us. So what do we need? I'd say we want some kind of advancement system with which you earn new abilities, a combat system in which you use those abilities against enemies and gain XP (or something like it) for more advancement, and story development which ideally allows play in multiple sessions. The systems we can already do right now, it's just a matter of connecting some counters with the right logic. The problem is connecting the system to the sackpeople. Teebonesy offered one solution. You could build a sackbot or some other construct for each class, with all the attacks or spells built into it. It would have microchips which keep track of damage, XP's, and there's supposedly some new material that helps making HUD stats on screen. The direct control could be linked directly to attacks, or to a menu-based combat system. The only thing missing would be a way to store game state between levels and between game sessions. Using the player's own sackperson is a lot trickier. You can build your class and combat system in some chip hidden away somewhere, but, like I mentioned earlier, you 'd want to keep track of which health meter or spell ability belongs to which player. Some of the stuff I read could be interpreted* as being able to reprogram part of the controls of sackboy himself, but even then, how will we make it do a sword slash or arrow shot animation? Those are the problems Mm needs to solve for us, not some premade classes. Edit: *Reprogramming sackboy controls is contradicted in Samalot's Edge scans (http://www.lbpmedia.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/page-10.jpg).

2010-05-12 12:27:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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