LittleBigPlanet 1 - PSP - Tearaway -Run Sackboy Run #1
Theck and Thack
Archive: 42 posts
| Has anyone got the time to give a comprehensive overview of "theck" and "thack?" I'm aware that the term relates to extra layers in between the normal layers, such as those occupied by a checkpoint or a sackboy, but I've never experimented with the glitch before and know little about it. I'd really like to know more about how to create these objects from scratch, as well as their potential practical applications and precautions for use. Are theck and thack layers considered to be essential tools for advanced creators, or are they merely an intriguing curiosity of limited practical value? | 2010-05-04 14:04:00 Author: Ungreth  Posts: 2130 |
| Has anyone got the time to give a comprehensive overview of "theck" and "thack?" I'm afraid such a guide would be relatively short, but I can tell you some benefits and uses: Theck is as thick as a checkpoint; thack is as thick as a golfball or a sackboy. Theck is by far the most useful. It can be used as an additional layer with which to provide visual detail. Both theck and thack are grabbable, but theck is only grabbable on the edges, when not directly in front of a thick or thin layer. Theck can also be used to cover up anything in the thin layer that you don't want visible. Thack is generally only useful when used in conjuction with theck, as theck can cleanly pass behind thack. Since checkpoints are theck, by definition, they can move behind thack layers. This is useful for hidden checkpoints/respawns. You cannot move theck behind thack when the grid is enabled. That said, a stiff, grid-aligned piston can. You can thusly use pistons to grid align them together. You cannot corner edit theck if it is overlapping with either the thin layer behind it or the theck layer in front of it. Theck collides with the normal thick layer, and is useful as a bumper to prevent thick objects from proceeding. Theck can be made invisible, but must go smaller than you'd expect. Thack is thinner in both the front and back. There is a gap behind where the theck layer can pass behind it, and there is also a gap in the front, for which there is no known material thickness to exist. This little lip can actually be useful for those who are picky and concerned with detail. I'm sure I will add more, it's just hard to remember. Are theck and thack layers considered to be essential tools for advanced creators, or are they merely an intriguing curiosity of limited practical value? Honestly, I don't think I can build without them anymore. They are awesome!  | 2010-05-04 14:54:00 Author: comphermc  Posts: 5338 |
| Thanks, Comph...sounds like something in which I should invest a little time for experimentation. Would it be it easiest to make theck/thack objects myself, or am I better off searching for a level that gives the objects away as a prize? | 2010-05-04 15:07:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130 |
| Next time you catch me on, I'll give you some editable/smearable theck and thack materials. | 2010-05-04 15:08:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| theck and thack ? | 2010-05-04 15:10:00 Author: Unknown User  |
| theck and thack ? Theck is as thick as a checkpoint; thack is as thick as a golfball or a sackboy. .......... | 2010-05-04 15:16:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| Where could I get my hands on these Theck and Thack? | 2010-05-04 15:27:00 Author: standby250  Posts: 1113 |
| Where could I get my hands on these Theck and Thack? I have a copyable level called "Bakscratch's Extra Layers, Plus a Few." They are in there. If they are not editable, cut one of them in half and one of the remaining pieces will be smearable. Tada! | 2010-05-04 15:29:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| i have grown to love theck and thack, theck in particular. it's really useful for characters and the like. i'd say that they are not essential to be a good creator but they can sure help. | 2010-05-04 16:00:00 Author: trip090  Posts: 1562 |
| Is it still possible to make them from scratch? I've been trying but can't get them to stick. | 2010-05-04 16:06:00 Author: IStwisted  Posts: 428 |
| hmm, it's iffy. sometimes it works, sometimes not. the method (r2 and x) still works but not all the time (for me, anyway). but it does still work. | 2010-05-04 16:10:00 Author: trip090 Posts: 1562 |
| N.B. It may be unclear as to why I've underlined certain phrases until you get to the end of this post... I'm afraid such a guide would be relatively short, but I can tell you some benefits and uses... Additionally, both theck and thack have the same mass per unit area as a thick piece of the same material. Only thin material has a different mass per unit area, so you could glue theck and thack together to create a 'thick' piece which is twice as heavy as a regular thick piece, although there are other ways to do this, like overlapping with an emitter. Also, I believe Sehven suggested here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=24916-Does-Anyone-Know-About-This&p=431814#post431814) that theck material emitted into the 3D layers have a tendency to pop back into the playable layers, although it's not clear under what circumstances this occurs. In the same post it also mentions that if you're trying to create them yourself, it won't work with cardboard. There's a fairly long discussion about theck and thack in this thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=23722-Cow-Glitch). ...sounds like something in which I should invest a little time for experimentation. Definately worth having a play with them, which in itself might inspire a particular application. One which came up fairly recently was for saving layers when you need to double-bolt wheels for a speed/directional vehicle, as posted here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=23656-Directional-AND-Speed-logic&p=411592#post411592). Would it be it easiest to make theck/thack objects myself, or am I better off searching for a level that gives the objects away as a prize? Definately easier to get them from another level, as the only remaining unpatched method for creating them is somewhat unreliable. If you don't have any luck getting editable versions from comphy's copyable level, then check out the one by Sehven (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/member.php?8109-Sehven), which also contains a selection of cow-glitched materials. One more phrase I need to use in this post is "gravity manipulation platforms", then I've used all four of the phrases that rtm dislikes (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=23722-Cow-Glitch&p=411580#post411580) in a single post. Woohoo! I shall have to infract myself for this, but it was totally worth it.  | 2010-05-04 17:33:00 Author: Aya042  Posts: 2870 |
| https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=8186 | 2010-05-04 17:48:00 Author: ARD  Posts: 4291 |
| Definately worth having a play with them, which in itself might inspire a particular application. One which came up fairly recently was for saving layers when you need to double-bolt wheels for a speed/directional vehicle, as posted here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=23656-Directional-AND-Speed-logic&p=411592#post411592). Pardon my Noob-ness, but "Double-bolting" is normally done by: -- thin layer support (connected to chasis) -- wheel -- motor bolt 1 -- thin layer support (connected to chasis) -- motor bolt 2 Such that the wheel and its motors normally take up a thick layer and two adjacent thin layers? By using one theck support and one thack wheel, you've reduced this to one (normal) thick layer and one thin layer? I'm also assuming that connecting any control wire to motor bolt 1 must be done prior to overlaying it, right? -- Nanluin | 2010-05-04 17:51:00 Author: Nanluin  Posts: 98 |
| Pardon my Noob-ness, but "Double-bolting" is normally done by: -- thin layer support (connected to chasis) -- wheel -- motor bolt 1 -- thin layer support (connected to chasis) -- motor bolt 2 Such that the wheel and its motors normally take up a thick layer and two adjacent thin layers? By using one theck support and one thack wheel, you've reduced this to one (normal) thick layer and one thin layer? I'm also assuming that connecting any control wire to motor bolt 1 must be done prior to overlaying it, right? -- Nanluin Simply, yes. It can also be used to stack together a greater number of layers. @Ard - Thanks for linking to a locked thread which basically only discusses their existence. You're so helpful!  | 2010-05-04 17:55:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| There is a gap behind where the theck layer can pass behind it, and there is also a gap in the front, for which there is no known material thickness to exist. When I pointed out that we were missing that layer, Aya declared it "thock." He said "that should drive Rtm crazy." Anyway, I have found the thock layer in the Incredibles pod car thing. It has a theck back, a thack middle and a thock front so that sackboy can fit inside but not pass through the front or back. You can also fit thack objects inside it. I managed to crush the theck and thock parts, leaving only the thack (it still looks the same since the visible mesh and the collision model are stored separately in most video games. So yeah, I can confirm the existence of that extra layer, but I haven't found a way to make materials that fit into it. It'd be nice to be able to make a double bolted wheel connected to a backplate all in one layer. @ Aya: I don't consider the method for creating them to be unreliable. The timing is a bit tricky, but once you get it down, you have a near 100% success rate when in offline create mode. In OC, the lag throws off the timing and it can take a lot of tries, which is probably why most people think it's harder than it is. I'll usually make new theck thack objects instead of going into my popit for my saved ones 'cuz new ones are quicker. | 2010-05-04 18:55:00 Author: Sehven  Posts: 2188 |
| Next time you catch me on, I'll give you some editable/smearable theck and thack materials. Nice one...cheers matey! | 2010-05-04 19:05:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130 |
| Sevhen discovered a new and somewhat easy way to recreate theck and thack (the original method was patched, I think.) Copy a regular thick block. While pressing x, press R2 to make thack layer. It catches the material between thick and thin. Likewise, if you copy a regular thin block, while pressing x, press L1. This gives you theck. As far as I know, thock was just discovered by sevhen a day or two ago. It's on a piece of an MM object, but no one knows if you can recreate it in material form. PS: I was about to make a theck/thack tutorial, right after my score tutorial. * disappointed*, lol. | 2010-05-04 21:54:00 Author: Incinerator22  Posts: 3251 |
| Sevhen discovered a new and somewhat easy way to recreate theck and thack I believe Sehven suggested that theck material emitted into the 3D layers have a tendency to pop back into the playable layers, although it's not clear under what circumstances this occurs. Whoa. I'm getting credit for a lot of stuff I didn't do. I honestly can't remember who discovered the way to recreate theck and thack, but it wasn't me. I think I learned it from oLMCo (but I'm not positive). And I'm pretty sure that Rtm was the first person who pointed out that theck objects emitted into the 3d layers would pop back into the playable layers (he may not have been the first, but I'm pretty sure he posted about it and that was the first time I'd heard it). As far as what circumstances cause theck to pop back into the playable layers, it seems that if you select a theck object or try to attach a connector to it, it'll pop. That happens even if the theck parts are glued to another object: they'll unglue and pop back into the playable area. As for thock, I've always kind of speculated about its existence and yesterday was the first time I confirmed the existence of an object that occupied the thock layer, so I guess I can take credit for that one... though unless I can find a way to use it, there's not much to take credit for. | 2010-05-04 22:20:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188 |
| Also, I believe Sehven suggested here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=24916-Does-Anyone-Know-About-This&p=431814#post431814) that theck material emitted into the 3D layers have a tendency to pop back into the playable layers, although it's not clear under what circumstances this occurs. Whoa. I'm getting credit for a lot of stuff I didn't do. From the linked post... I made a wrecked version of my mech (the VT-04, not the new one I'm working on) and stuck it in the background 3d layers. Never could figure out why parts of it would pop back into normal layers. I guess it's cuz they were theck. ...seems pretty conclusive to me. | 2010-05-05 02:01:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870 |
| I didn't make that connection until after reading Rtm's post in the same thread. On a side note, and this would be really useful for me right now.... is this theck of yours stable in the first front glitch layer? Or does it jump back into the playable layers as soon as you select it? I didn't really think much of it when the theck parts popped back into the playable layers. I just figured that some pieces would randomly do that. Wasn't until reading Rtm's post that I realized it had only been the theck pieces. Sorry. It's embarrassing enough to be credited with stuff that I actually DID. That's kinda' why I always tell people they don't need to worry about crediting me when they publish levels with things I showed them. The other reason is 'cuz I always lose track of who I learn tricks from so I never really do the giving credit thing: It makes me feel like a hypocrite when people give me credit and I don't give any to anybody else. | 2010-05-05 06:57:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188 |
| So yeah, I can confirm the existence of that extra layer, but I haven't found a way to make materials that fit into it. It'd be nice to be able to make a double bolted wheel connected to a backplate all in one layer. You you said this did you mean that you couldn't make a piece of thock material? | 2010-05-05 07:59:00 Author: SR20DETDOG  Posts: 2431 |
| Right. I haven't found a way to make thock material (to my knowledge, nobody has). I have managed to jam a piece of thin layer material into the thock layer, but it's not stable: as soon as you do anything to it, it pops back into the thin layer, even if you try gluing down first.. | 2010-05-05 08:06:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188 |
| I don't consider the method for creating them to be unreliable. The timing is a bit tricky, but once you get it down, you have a near 100% success rate when in offline create mode. In OC, the lag throws off the timing and it can take a lot of tries, which is probably why most people think it's harder than it is. I'll usually make new theck thack objects instead of going into my popit for my saved ones 'cuz new ones are quicker. Anecdotal evidence in support of the above: I wanted a piece of grabbable Theck polystyrene for the little optional "hint" signs that I posted throughout my revised level tonight. It took only two tries, and that's primarily because I'd never done it before. Of course my son, who was in the level with me, immediately scanned it for himself before I had done anything with it...  -- Nanluin | 2010-05-05 09:19:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Right. I haven't found a way to make thock material (to my knowledge, nobody has). I have managed to jam a piece of thin layer material into the thock layer, but it's not stable: as soon as you do anything to it, it pops back into the thin layer, even if you try gluing down first.. I'm assuming that the thock (I can see why Rtm hates these names  ) layer is fairly thin as in one normal thick layer it goes theck, thack then thock. I think I may have accidentally created some thock material on the weekend past, I'll see if I can recreate it but don't get your hopes up, I'm still not entirely sure if it was thock (I accidentally deleted it) and i'm not entirely sure what I did to create it. | 2010-05-05 09:59:00 Author: SR20DETDOG Posts: 2431 |
| Right. I haven't found a way to make thock material (to my knowledge, nobody has). I have managed to jam a piece of thin layer material into the thock layer, but it's not stable: as soon as you do anything to it, it pops back into the thin layer, even if you try gluing down first.. I've also had a go at this, and I don't think it's a proper layer in its own right. If you take a piece of thin material and press X when planeshifting a copy, you can pretty much put a thin piece anywhere in the thick layer. As you said, as soon as you select it, it pops back into the thin layer, but while it's unselected, you can bolt it to stuff, and it stays in position. In certain positions, it also passes through any other material (including falling through the floor of the level). Another observation is that theck and thack slightly overlap each other, so I don't think it's the case that each thick layer can be simply subdivided into three mutually exclusive areas theck/thack/thock, but there are just certain pairs of coordinates in the Z-axis which materials naturally snap to, and it's just coincidental that the gap in front of a thack piece suggests that there's another layer there, when in fact there isn't. I'm wondering if it's actually as a result of MM patching out the other way of making theck and thack, in order to maintain compatibility with existing levels. Might be worth rolling back to an older version to see if this same 'popping' effect happens there. | 2010-05-05 14:04:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870 |
| The ability to place materials into any part of a layer was actually discovered a LONG time ago. Like around the same time theck and thack were originally discovered (a little before that, iirc). Even back then, they would pop as soon as you selected them. So I doubt it was ever possible to make them stable, but I don't think anybody ever tried in the original unpatched game. Incidentally, if you capture and place an out of layer object, it'll pop when you place it, 'cuz that counts as selecting it. But if you fire it from an emitter, it won't pop. All in all, I find that particular glitch to be too unstable to use. The only thing I got stable results out of were things like doll arms (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=25258-Sourceless-lights-invisible-spikes-and-a-couple-other-tricks-[UPDATED-4-29]): the shoulder section pops into a normal layer, but the forearm can be moved to other parts of the layer and will remain there even when selected. | 2010-05-05 20:05:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188 |
| Does this popping effect still happen when placing a thicker material within the glitched material? Or does that still count as selecting it? | 2010-05-05 21:39:00 Author: Holguin86  Posts: 875 |
| Not sure what you meant. You mean if the material is glitched out of its normal layer and then you cut into it with a material paint tool? I'm not sure. I don't think it'd pop in that case, but I'm not sure. You can place bolts on it, or you can glue another material to it, but once you've glued/bolted it, if you try to move it by selecting any of the pieces of the object, then the glitched material will pop back into a normal layer. | 2010-05-06 00:33:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188 |
| I think he might mean placing a piece of thack material behind it before selecting. What happens there? Also, if I weren't such a baby about rolling back to the release version of the game, I'd try it. Can you do it on a secondary account without affecting the first? | 2010-05-06 05:36:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| A secondary account? I don't think so. I've only used a secondary account once or twice, but I didn't have to run any updates, so it seems that the update data applies to all accounts. As for blocking a layer from popping: it'll pop anyway, and they'll end up overlapping even if they're bolted or glued. If they're the same thickness, you'll get that tv glitch appearance. If the game is unpaused or if you try to move it, it'll quickly pop out of the intersecting object, or, if it's bolted, it'll break: just like any of the other ways of making objects intersect. I haven't tried yet, but I imagine you could "layer-pop" a gas wheel and then bolt it to another object (solid or gas) in the same layer. Then you can select it and it'll pop back into the same layer. They'll be bolted to each other but only occupy one layer. For example: you could make an incremental bolt switch with thin layer gas and have the backplate and both wheels occupy a single thin layer. Be careful with switches and emitters, though: they have a tendency to jump between overlapping layers when you capture the object. [Edit] Tried it and it works! I successfully double bolted two thin gas wheels to a thin backplate all in the same layer. Just to be clear: the "front" gas wheel is bolted to the "back" gas wheel, which in turn is bolted to the backplate... but they all exist in a single thin layer (I used gas because it can exist in the same layer as other objects without breaking). What possible use is there for this? How about making one of Rtm's wheeley good switches (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=12211-UPDATED-Like-Hamster-Wheels-You-ll-love-my-Wheeley-Good-Switches-[vid]) using only one thick and one thin layer? That's how I built my most recent control pods which you can fine here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=22150-Vehicle-tools-Tilt-and-motion-sensor-and-control-pod-%28Copyable%29). | 2010-05-06 06:46:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188 |
| Also, if I weren't such a baby about rolling back to the release version of the game, I'd try it. Can you do it on a secondary account without affecting the first? Nope. The game data is shared by all accounts, so you'd either need a second PS3, or not be such a baby. I might finish off my comphrensive guide to safely rolling back and restoring your LBP version if there's enough interest. I successfully double bolted two thin gas wheels to a thin backplate all in the same layer. Interesting. I wonder if this is the same method that xFreeze was referring to in one of his LBW posts, but never actually explained. | 2010-05-06 13:36:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870 |
| [Edit] Tried it and it works! I successfully double bolted two thin gas wheels to a thin backplate all in the same layer. Just to be clear: the "front" gas wheel is bolted to the "back" gas wheel, which in turn is bolted to the backplate... but they all exist in a single thin layer (I used gas because it can exist in the same layer as other objects without breaking). What possible use is there for this? How about making one of Rtm's wheeley good switches (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=12211-UPDATED-Like-Hamster-Wheels-You-ll-love-my-Wheeley-Good-Switches-[vid]) using only one thick and one thin layer? That's how I built my most recent control pods which you can fine here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=22150-Vehicle-tools-Tilt-and-motion-sensor-and-control-pod-%28Copyable%29). Sounds like something Aya and I were trying to do the other way. I made some logic that involved three layers, but was entirely in the thin and theck gas layers. I got it to work, even though it was my intention to bolt thin to thin. Aya, you going to use that logic? | 2010-05-06 13:45:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| XFreeze's method is completely different. He made me swear to secrecy before he'd tell me: he's worried that, if it gets out, Mm will patch it. Anyway, same layer double bolting was a side effect of what we were actually using his method for. If you ask (I'm talking to Aya) he'll probably tell you. @Comph, Aya briefly mentioned your overlapping logic the other day, but I was under the impression that the wheels were simply bolted to the same backplate, not double bolted to each other. Anyway, I'm glad that I've found another way of same-layer double bolting (needs a catchy name to annoy Rtm) that doesn't use XFreeze's method, 'cuz now I can talk about it. | 2010-05-06 19:47:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188 |
| same-layer double bolting (needs a catchy name to annoy Rtm) Mega Bolting!  | 2010-05-06 20:01:00 Author: trip090 Posts: 1562 |
| Anyway, I'm glad that I've found another way of same-layer double bolting (needs a catchy name to annoy Rtm) that doesn't use XFreeze's method, 'cuz now I can talk about it. No, no, you don't get it. The above name would *please* Rtm because it is descriptive of what you are actually doing. He'll like it! Now, if you called it, say, the Low-Rider Glitch, now *that* would irritate Rtm because it requires someone to explain...every time a stranger asks...why the trick has anything to do with low-riders (and no, I don't know if those Story Mode cars have anything "double bolted in the same layer" or not...I just pulled that out of my...the air). -- Nanluin | 2010-05-06 20:31:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| No, no, you don't get it. No, I get it. It's just become kind of a running joke ever since he ranted about it that one time. I think same layer double bolting is the perfect name for it... though anybody who doesn't know what it is will still have to ask. | 2010-05-06 20:43:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188 |
just call it dog bolting.  | 2010-05-06 20:45:00 Author: trip090 Posts: 1562 |
| @Sehven: I think I found a way of putting materials in the "thock" layer. Take a theck piece and do the shuffle place glitch (x and l1/2) until it lands in the thick layer. The thing is though, that sackboy can't pass through as it seems to behave like thack material, until you select it and it becomes thick again. Edit: ah it seems this was discovered... nevermind... | 2010-05-06 21:41:00 Author: croissantbuncake  Posts: 572 |
| Aya, you going to use that logic? Dunno yet. Gotta actually put in the time to finish it off. Since it's only a quick n' dirty demo of invisible gas, and if the objective is to publish sooner rather than later, then I might just leave it as-is, and leave the optimization as "an exercise for the reader." ...he's worried that, if it gets out, Mm will patch it. Actually this is starting to worry me too about certain things. I shall have to go visit their office (which is like 10 minutes away), and ask them to sign a contract agreeing not to patch them. If you ask (I'm talking to Aya) he'll probably tell you. I'm not all that bothered about this for now, but there was another thing he alluded to which I was curious about, but I can't remember what it was. just call it dog bolting. Even that may be too descriptive. I think "dog glitch" is more vague... and while I'm at it, I hereby rename my thermo-cheating technique to the "sheep glitch". | 2010-05-07 02:26:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870 |
| @Comph, Aya briefly mentioned your overlapping logic the other day, but I was under the impression that the wheels were simply bolted to the same backplate, not double bolted to each other. Yeah, same backplate... but we were trying to bolt a theck layer to a theck layer. Needless to say, it didn't work. But made some neat logic by accident. Wa-hoo! @ Aya - Baaaaaaa | 2010-05-07 03:20:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| Earlier I was trying to show Aya how to double bolt two thin layer gas wheels to a thin layer backplate all in the same layer. I was going crazy 'cuz I couldn't for the life of me remember how to do it... until about two minutes after he kicked me outta' his pod so he could go to sleep. The trick is to keep the "front" object in a normal layer and then layer pop the receiving object. You start with your two thin gas wheels. Put the motor bolts on them and tweak them to however you want (it's possible to tweak them later, but it's a pita). Now layer pop the "back" wheel so that it's just a bit behind the layer that the other wheel is in (it should be in or around the thock layer so that if you select it, it'll pop back into the same layer as the other wheel). Position the other wheel in front of it and hit X: you'll hear the bolting sound if it worked. Select it and the glitched wheel will pop back to the normal layer. Now you've got two wheels in the same space, but one is bolted to the other one as if it were actually in front of it. Now repeat the process with the backplate: layer pop it so that it's all set to pop back into the same layer as the wheels. Position the wheels and hit X to attach them (one is already bolted, so only the other one will actually bolt to the backplate). Select the rig again and it'll pop back to the normal layer. Now you've got a double bolted wheel that can be used for an incremental bolt or for a wheeley good switch, and it's all in one thin layer. A couple caveats: you should attach any switches/emitter before putting it all together: since they're all gonna' end up in the same layer, it's gonna' be tough to put switches on any particular part without having them stick to a different one. You may also want to attach switches to the motor bolts before you stack 'em up: once they're stacked, you'll have a difficult time selecting which one you want to tweak or which one you want to hook a wire to (it's not too difficult to work around, but if you do the wires first, then you won't have to work around it). Lastly, if you capture the object and any switches or emitters are on overlapping parts, they may migrate to the other part: a switch on the front gas wheel might migrate to the back gas wheel. To avoid this, make the wheel with the switches bigger so that they don't overlap. I've never seen switches migrate from gas to a solid so it may not matter if the switch overlaps the backplate... but I'm not sure. This technique probably isn't especially useful for most people. I used it because I needed to squeeze a wheeley good switch down to one layer so I could fit it in a vehicle. [edit] If you don't already know what I mean by "layer pop," it's when you click L3 to copy something, then hit L1 or L2 to shift it to a different layer, but before it gets there, you hit 'X' (so you'll hit L1 and X at almost the same time). If you pop a thin layer object forward (L1) it'll usually land in the thock area, and once you select it, it'll finish it's trip to the thin front thin layer. | 2010-05-07 07:53:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188 |
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