Archive: 10 posts

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Greetings; I just went through rtm223's well written description of Emitter Blocking Theory (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/entry.php?1041-Emitter-Blocking-Theory), and one of the points there seems to contradict what I have found in practice, thus far. Specifically: 1. Dark matter will not block emitted dark matter: The blocking check still occurs, I'm certain of that, but for some reason MM decided that multiple dark matter objects existing in the same place is all fine and dandy. Editing them after they have been emitted is nigh on impossible, but they will exist. And I absolutely love this feature of the game. 2. Static objects will not block emitted static objects: This is effectively an extension from the first rule. Any object considered static (borrowed term from the PSP version), will follow the same rules dark matter. This means any object glued to dark matter, either directly or indirectly. It does not include objects connected to dark matter on stiff rods - these are still considered moving objects by the game engine and, significantly, by the thermo calculation (but that is another matter). In my recent level (and no, this isn't a plug), Sack Scout Camp (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=25687-Sack-Scout-Camp), I have a short track-mounted 'glider' ride with an event at the end...essentially a short segway from one section of the level to the next. The glider assembly is emitted by switch, so that the flight can be reattempted upon player respawn if you accidentally release R1 somewhere along the way and die. The glider also has some remote logic associated with it, mounted up on a small, hidden logic rack, which causes the glider to despawn if you do let go early. This despawn prevents the glider from going on without you and triggering a little event at the end (without you there). The glider despawn is brain-based, and there is an invisible string between glider and logic rack that causes everything to despawn together. Now for the question. When I was initially setting this bit up, I found that I had to make the glider's logic rack out of wood and place it on a Dark Matter "shelf" in order for everything to despawn on player failure and then respawn (re-emit) when the player "pulled down another glider." This is where I discovered that brains don't despawn Dark Matter. As such, if the logic rack was instead made of Dark Matter, then the DM rack (alone) would remain after brain activation, AND the emitter would be blocked from emitting another glider assembly. But according to the above quote, it should have been able to, right? All that was left of the glider assembly after brain-activation was its DM logic rack -- nothing else was blocking the emitter. Why couldn't a new glider assembly be emitted, new DM over old DM? I'm not arguing with rtm223's Blog Post. The pictures of the emitted sponge swing on a DM mount are very neat and convincing (as are those of the 'conveyer-belt', 'escallator', and so forth). I'm just trying to figure out the difference between what I did and what the tutorial/blog post shows. -- Nanluin

2010-04-29 18:08:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98

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It seems to me that the dark matter dosn't have any association with the creature brain, the dark matter isn't glued to the logi rack correct? If so, then the dark matter acts independent of the logic you have, I would suggest using rtm's demitters, remitters (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=11861-Demitters-New-demitter-switch-added!!!-2010-03-10) if that helps at all.

2010-04-29 18:19:00 Author: damaz10 Posts: 771

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I tried it and it works as you thought it should have. As long as there isn’t anything blocking the emitter but dark matter, it will emit… well it did for me. I don’t know what I can recommend, it worked first time for me… you maybe did something wrong or over looked something. Try maybe a simple test to get the idea right first, with the complexity of your device theres a lot of areas to make a mistake. Oh, and… you can kill dark matter with a brain, you place it in the air first then select it and stick it to the dark matter. I tried doing that with strings too, but sadly didn’t work. So not sure how much help itll be… but nice to know never the less. Good luck, hope ya get it working in the end

2010-04-29 18:36:00 Author: oLMCo Posts: 96

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The mechanism works fine as it is, with a wooden logic rack connected to the glider via hidden string. If I were to redesign it, I'd probably use a demit/remit scheme, but the brain scheme DOES work. The question was, in my early attempts to use a Dark Matter logic rack (not wood), why was the emitter blocked when all that was left of the assembly after brain activation was the DM framework for the logic? It should have been able to emit new DM over old DM. -- Nanluin

2010-04-29 18:45:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98

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Yeah I was aware of the question, and thought I made the answer pretty clear. It does emit over the old dark matter if that’s all that blocking it, you must be doing something wrong… what though I have no idea , I havent seen the set up of it. That’s why I said you should make a little test rig to get the basic principle down… then any thing wrong with the one you made that isn’t working would become clear.

2010-04-29 19:03:00 Author: oLMCo Posts: 96

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I suspect it has something to do with how the programming works when a brain is activated. As long as the "connected-object" chain remains clear and free of DM (my wooden logic rack), then everything goes when the brain goes. However, when there is Dark Matter connecting and surrounding some part of the logic, the connection-chain from the brain gets broken and a few small bits aren't despawned --> moving bits that the emitter didn't consider "static." -- Nanluin

2010-04-29 19:13:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98

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Demit the whole assembly. 'Nuff said. More of rtm's tech. This will ensure that everything that you want to get rid of is got rid of. Search "demitter" @rtm223 and it should give you a level where he demonstrates the technique. I rarely use them, preferring creature brains (like you tried), but for this situation they are so useful it's unbelievable. Give them a go.

2010-04-29 20:20:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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Demit the whole assembly. 'Nuff said. More of rtm's tech. This will ensure that everything that you want to get rid of is got rid of. Search "demitter" @rtm223 and it should give you a level where he demonstrates the technique. I rarely use them, preferring creature brains (like you tried), but for this situation they are so useful it's unbelievable. Give them a go. Aye -- I've already incorporated rtm223's Emit/Demit technique in another portion of the level. Going back and redoing the glider portion using that technique would be a case of fixing what's not broken, but I might goof around with it for the fun of it. The current (brain) technique has the potential to be a "points mill" -- die a few times on this section of the level and rack up some brain points -- but few are ever going to do that, as the level isn't a point-score oriented one, anyway. Incorporating Emit/Demit instead would solve that minor "cheat." At present, I just have a low limit on the number of times you can emit a new glider assembly, which is not an elegant fix. -- Nanluin

2010-04-29 20:42:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98

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I think the problem you've encountered is that the logic is not, itself, Dark Matter. When you have DM connected to other materials via connectors such as pistons, the material is no longer static. Rtm had found a solution to that, which I have since stolen and used a few times. I will assume for the sake of the following tip that you use pistons and winches in your logic... Before you capture your logic, pause and enable the grid. Grab your moving logic parts and pull them outside their "rest" state. It is perfectly okay if you pull them outside of their normal range - it will quickly correct when the physics are allowed to move again. Now, capture the set. When you try and emit it this time, there will be no dynamic parts blocking the emit of other dynamic parts. Depending on the logic, you may need a slight redesign to ensure nothing activates right at the emit. I used this technique to reset a scene in my level Interstellar Infiltration. About halfway through, a little zipline breaks and falls. If you die, it will completely reset on respawn, emitting a new zipline, logic and all. I had to mess with the piston and winch ranges on my logic so that I could set this up, but it works beautifully. Basically, if a moving logic part was meant to initially be contracted, I further contracted it for the emit. Likewise for the extended logic parts... they were extended further. Hope that made sense.

2010-04-29 21:22:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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So that's why you spent like five hours on that section. That must have been a right pain to sort out. Brilliant solution, rtm. You da man.

2010-04-29 21:29:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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