Archive: 8 posts

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(This thread was originally posted at LBW, because there were few large guides on the thermometer. Over here, I've found quite a few great ones, but I think this one still has a chance of helping someone. Please note that the version at LBW may be easier to understand, as I used more color-coding, italicy and bolding (if any of those are words) ... So, enjoy!) Interesting. Explain NAO! Fine! So, I decided to do a little research on the LBP thermometer. At first, I only wanted to find out a bit about what materials cost just a bit of thermo space so I could work better on thermo-high levels. Then I realized how useful it could be to do more, so I tested some shapes. I finally decided to make a whole guide and post it for all to use! General Info on the ThermometerThe thermometer is that white and pink bar that is always on the far left of your screen when creating a level in LBP. The thermometer's purpose is too inform you on just how much more 'stuff' your level can contain before it is full! The thermometer has 16 notches. This is important to the guide! Now, why the limit? Well, if your level 'overheats' (the thermometer goes over the limit), the game just cannot process the level any more, and no one can play it! This guide is intended to help you find ways to make levels using as little thermo space as possible. The guide is split into three posts: Post 1- Info on Shapes Post 2- Info on Materials Post 3- Info on Gadgets, Bits n' Bobs, Misc, and Thermometer-related questions. Also in post 3: The Final Guide to keeping your thermo low! Please, if you cannot read through all of these posts, at least check out the Final Guide at the bottom for a summary. Now, what you DIDN'T know about the thermometer... OK, you may have known this, but I'm going to assume you didn't The thermometer is actually made up of multiple other, invisible thermometers, all controlling different things! Imagine a large pizza... go ahead and pick your own topping, as I must admit, I despise pizza! Pizza are sliced into a bunch of... err, slices. The thermometer is a lot like this. Each of the mini-thermometers (pizza slices) controls a different aspect of the thermometer. For example, placing 7000 stickers will make the granddaddy thermometer go as high as it can go. Placing one more sticker will overheat the level. However, that is only the sticker aspect of the level. Try placing something that doesn't relate to stickers at all... let's say very, very simple creatures. Place 50 creatures, and the thermometer STILL probably won't go over, even though the limit is but a few more than 50! Now, try adding dark matter shapes with tons of vertices... it just doesn't seem to end! When your thermometer maxes out, it may not actually be ABSOLUTELY FULL. You may have an empty thermometer on a different aspect... who knows? Credit goes to comphermc for this discovery. Hail his might wisdom! I did multiple tests too prove this theory. For example, I put as many different materials possible that I could. Then I placed close to the limit of stickers (7000). Next, I placed tons of high-vertice shapes. Finally, I placed over 30 simple creatures! Shapes Different shapes affect the thermometer differently. This is because of 'vertices'. They are the corners of shapes. The more vertices a shape has, the more thermometer space it takes up! Here is a list of some of the basic shapes, and how they affected the thermo. Again, the thermometer has 16 notches! *All testing with shapes were tested with Dark Matter. Circle- ? Vertices (1339) The circle is a shape with zero vertices*. Going by that, it should be the lowest on the thermo, right? Well, after studying, I say NO! *Technically, a circle has zero or infinite vertices. In LBP, there are twenty visible vertices. I'll just leave this up to you to decide. *The circles I tested with were each 1 plane thick. *They were each 1 big grid in size. *They were each evenly spaced apart by 1 big grid sqaure. At placing 100 circles- The thermometer was not even halfway up the begining circle. At placing 250 circles- just above the 2nd notch. At placing 500 circles- just above the 5th notch. At placing 750 circles- just above halfway (8th notch) At placing 1000 circles- just above the 11th notch. At placing 1250 circles- just above the 14th notch. At placing the 1399th circle, the thermometer reached the top. By placing one more circle, the level overheats! Square- 4 Vertices (2496) Surprisingly, the square actually was lower on the thermometer than the circle, even though it was 4 vertices! *The squares I tested were each 1 plane thick. *They were each 1 big grid in size. *They were each evenly spaced apart by 1 big grid square. At placing 100 squares- The thermometer was not even halfway up the begining circle. At placing 250 squares- at the 1st notch. At placing 500 squares- at the 2nd and 1/2 notch. At placing 750 squares- just above the 4th notch. At placing 1000 squares- at the 6th notch. At placing 1250 squares- at the 7th and 3/4 notch. At placing 1500 squares- just above the 9th notch. At placing 1750 squares- at the 11th notch. At 1850, some squares became invisible! After rewinding, the glitch was fixed. I decided to test with that later. At placing 2000 squares- at the 12th and 3/4 notch. At placing 2250 squares- just above the 14th notch. At placing the 2496th square, the thermometer reached the top. By placing one more square, the level overheats! Triangle- 3 Vertices (2496) The triangle has almost exactly the same results as the square, so I am not going to post them. The triangle limit is also 2496 (like the square). Sackboy Shape- 54 Vertices (470) One of my favorite shapes is the 'Sackboy Shape'! I decided to test this quickly, as many people use this shape a lot to make characters. This shape has WAY more vertices than either the circle, square, or triangle! *The Sackboy Shapes I tested were the default size. I then turned on the big grid and increased the size three times so that the shape appeared clearer. At placing the 470th Sackboy Shape, the thermometer reached the top. By placing one more sackboy shape, the level overheats! Octagon- 8 Vertices (2496) I decided to test the octagon because it has twice as many vertices as the square, so I expected to only be able to place about half as many of them as the square. Surprisinly, the vertices were wrong again! I was able to place the same amount as the square! At placing the 2496th octagon, the thermometer reached the top. By placing one more octagon, the level overheats! Heart- 34 Vertices (823) The only good that came out of this is that we now know exactly how many ugle, dark matter hearts those lame H4H levels can possibly have At placing the 823rd heart, the thermometer reached the top. By placing one more heart, the level overheats! Nanagon- 9 Vertices (2395) Nanagon made by Lite_Sleeper. The nanagon is an odd shape in LBP. Strangely, it rolls faster than a perfect circle, even though it only has 9 sides! At placing the 2395th nanagon, the thermometer reached the top. By placing one more nanagon, the level overheats! Cresent Moon- 26 Vertices (549) I can't think of a practicle use for a level to have anywhere near 549 cresent moons Just use this info to learn more about how vertices affect the thermo, I guess! At placing the 549th cresent moon, the thermometer reached the top. By placing one more cresent moon, the level overheats! Read on for info on materials and how they affect the thermometer!

2010-04-24 02:23:00 Author: Heckboy88 Posts: 179

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Materials Every material affects the thermometer diffetently. Some take up a ton of space; some, very little. The goal of this study on how materials affect the thermometer is to help you decide on which and how many materials you should use in your level! Do I use Blue Felt, or should I use the thermo-friendlier Blue Denim? The Basic Materials The basic materials all are extremely thermo-friendly. So, if you absolutely NEED to make a wooden cube in your level and your thermometer is shattering, your best bet is to use the basic wood! My testing on the basic materials was simple: I made 1 block of a material (1 big grid large), and copied it 200 times. Here is how they affected the thermometer... The Thermometer Friendliest (about 1 and 3/4th thermo notches) These are the basic materials that took up less thermo space than the others: -Dark Matter (took up least space) -Wood -Cardboard -Metal -Pink Floaty -Peach Floaty -Dissolve The Less Thermometer Friendly These are the basic materials that took up just a bit more thermo space than the ones listed above: -Sponge -Polyesterne -Stone -Rubber -Glass The Material Spectrum I tested EVERY SINGLE ONE of the materials in LBP, including all the DLC materials that were out at the time I was testing (thanks to tanrockstan34 for helping with the Valentine's Day Materials). I made this to be as easy as possible: Each material is ranked either S, M, or L. Materials marked 'S' took up the least thermometer space, generally about 1/8 of a notch. Materials marked 'M' took up a bit more than the ones marked 'S', generally about 1/4 of a notch. Materials marked 'L' took up the most thermometer space, generally about 1/2 to up to 1 whole thermometer notch. So, use this guide to help you determine what materials you should use! Maybe if a material you want to use takes up a lot of thermometer space, use another one that looks similar with a lower ranking! *All testing on these materials was done in a special way. Simply putting these materials down will not get the same results as I did. But rest assured, the only variable was the material itself, so don't worry that the data is innacurate! Cardboard The cardboard family is a relitivally thermo-friendly material. All of them were S or M. Wallpaper- M Sandpaper- S Brown Cardboard Skyscraper- S Blue Cardboard Skyscraper- S Red Cardboard Skyscraper- S Bollywood Collage- M Newspaper- M Tin Foil- M Embrossed Cardboard (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- M Antique Maps (History Level Kit)- M Valentine Wrapping Paper (Valentines Level Kit)- M Metal Metals have a wide variety of thermo usage. Engraved Metal- L Metal Skull Plate- L Aztec Gold- S Brown Rusty Metal- S Taxi Metal- S Rusty Metal Grill- S Black and Gold Leaves- L Green Mosaic- L Gold Metal- L Grey Rusty Metal- S Rusty Metal- S Metal Beam- L Shiny Metal- M Chrome and Velvet- M Flame Motif Metal- M Disco Metal- S Barbed Wire- L Gekko Armour Plating (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- M Gekko Skin (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- S VR Red (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- M VR Blue (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- M VR Green (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- M Gekko Skin Edge (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- M Treasure (Pirates of the Caribbean Level Kit)- M Polyesterne Only one polyesterne! Polyesterne Packing- M Sponge Spones are mainly 'S's and 'M's, with a few 'L's mixed in. Since there are so many sponges, if you are using a high-thermo sponge, try to find another sponge that looks similar to the one you have but more thermo-friendly! Pink Floral Fabric- S Zig-Zag Fabric- S Basket- M Red Fabric- L Red Stitched Fabric- S Brown Stripy Fabric- S Check Fabric- S Green Stripes Fabric- S Red Stripy Fabric- S Red Pattern Fabric- S Blue Knit- M Blue Denim- S Green and Gold Pattern- L Grey Tweed- M Green Floral Fabric- S Sushi- S Red Wicker- M Beige Cotton- S Green Fabric- S Gold Sequin Fabric- M Silk Pattern- M Snow Paper- S Zebra Fabric- L Paper Weave- M Blue Felt- M Blue Deck Chair- S Red Deck Chair- S Camoflauge- S Green Check Denim- L Orange Floral Fabric- S Grass- M Hessian Fabric- L Knitted Fabric- M Green Felt- L Pink Knit- M Orange Weave- L Beaded Fabric- L Orange Foliage- S Orange Fabric (Monster Level Kit)- L Chesterfield (Monster Level Kit)- S Reptile Skin (Monster Level Kit)- M Fish Scales (Monster Level Kit)- M Tapestry (History Level Kit)- L Valentine Fabric (Valentine Level Kit)- L Rose Basket (Valentine Level Kit)- L Wrapping Paper (Christmas Level Kit)- L Stone Stones are mainly 'M's, with a few 'L's and 'S's... Bevel Concrete- M Bevel Aztec Jade- S Aztec Stone- M Aztec Jade- S Concrete Panelling- M Grey Concrete- M Dark Grey Concrete- M Bumpy Concrete- M Rough Concrete- M Rough Stone Bricks- M Ceramic- L Temple Stone- M Stone- M Latticed Stone- M Cream Concrete- M Bunker Stone- forgot this one! White Speckle Concrete- M Blue Concrete- M Ceramic Mosaic- M Ceramic Tile- S Brown and Cream Concrete- M Checked Concrete- M Middle Eastern Tiles (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- L Middle Eastern Render (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- L Middle Eastern Stone Relief (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- L Middle Eastern Lattice- L Egyptian Hieroglyphs (History Level Kit)- M Arabian Tiles (History Level Kit)- M Cave Painting (History Level Kit)- L Granite Wall (Pirates of the Caribbean Level Kit)- M Sand (Pirates of the Caribbean Level Kit)- M Wood Woods seem to take the most thermometer space on average. Almost all of them are L or M. Wooden Struts- M Leather and Beaded Wood- L Coco Wood- M Carved Animals- L Red and Gold Cutout Wood- L Weathered Green Wood- L Dark Wood- M Orange Wood- L Red-Painted Wood- L Wooden Basket- S Framed Carved Wood- L Screen- M Pale Green Wood- M Golden Wood- M Illuminated Screen- L Beige Wood- M Blue Wood- S Mahogany Wood- M Wooden Crate- M White Panels- L Basket- S Wooden Planks- L Brown Wood- M Brown Pattern Wood- M Green Pattern Wood- M White Wood- M Light Brown Wood- M Dark Brown Wood- L Oak Tree- M Red Wood- L Weathere1d Wood- M Leather Struts- L Carved Heads- L Dark Green Wood- M Eggshell (Monster Level Kit)- L Chocolate Bar- M Candy Box- L Wood with Rusted Iron (Pirates of the Caribbean Level Kit)- L Weathered Wood (Pirates of the Caribbean Level Kit)- M Weathered Wood with Iron Bands (Pirates of the Caribbean Level Kit)- M Glass Glass was very interesting! The all but one of the glasses were the only non-basic materials I tested that did not make a noticible difference to the thermometer! So, if you desperatly need to make one last block and that thermo is exploding, try... glass, I guess! Red Glass- NA Purple Glass- NA Brown Glass- NA Blue Glass- NA Green Glass- NA Old Glass (Pirates of the Caribbean Level Kit)- S The Dangerously Demanding Materials These are the few materials that made the thermometer go higher than any of the others! Beware of using these materials! Middle Eastern Lattice (Metal Gear Solid Level Kit)- Stone Beaded Fabric- Sponge Tapestry (History Level Kit)- Sponge Carved Animals- Wood Red and Gold Cutout Wood- Wood

2010-04-24 02:24:00 Author: Heckboy88 Posts: 179

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Gadgets n' Gizmos Let's not forget all the wonderful things in the gadgets bag! Just how many times can you place those? Well, let's just find out... Buttons- 700 2 Way Levers- 466 So, if you just need to use either a lever or a button and your thermometer is quickly rising, use the button. Proximity Switches After placing 100 proximity switches on one square of dark matter (which takes up no space of its own), the thermometer was just under 1 notch. Normal Checkpoint- 707 Bubble- 1400 Try not to make a level jam-packed with bubbles. Not only can it easily raise the thermometer, but it's also very annoying to many people! Impact Explosive- 604 When testing this, I discovered a glitch! After placing them all, I opened the start menu. The cardboard edge it usually has was gone! Trigger Explosive- 1400 So, if you just need that explosive effect, go for this bomb, not the impact explosive. Missile- 700 Plasma Ball- 862 Rocket (On)- 1400 LED Light- 1400 Warning: Anywhere near this number of lights is lag-o-rama! Any light (except MGS Spotlight)- 1400 Bits n' Bobs There are far too many objects in the Goodies Bag to list So, I will share with you a few of the most frequently used ones! (very incomplete) Mushroom Tree- 658 Other 'Stuff' Here are some things other than objects and gadgets that you may need to know about when it comes to taking up thermometer space! Creatures (51) I did a very basic test for creatures, using the simplest creatures I could. *The creatures were made of 1 big grid square of cardboard. *The creatures had a protected brain on top, with default settings. *The creatures were each place 5 big grid squares apart. At placing the 51st creature, the thermometer reached the top. Placing one more creature would overheat the level! Stickers (7001) For all you extreme visual masters out there, this is important! I placed 100 stickers on a dark matter square (100 stickers is the limit to placing on a single item). I then copied that square 70 times, reaching 7000. I placed one more dark matter square and just ONE MORE STICKER, and the level reached its maximum thermo space. I tried this test with both an MM sticker (Blue Monkey Face) and a custom sticker, and got the same results. (The 71 dark matter squares affected the thermometer very little, but they were the lowest thermo option I had) Decorations (800) Fun fact; the decorations use an entirely different thermometer than the stickers! I placed 7000 stickers, and then placed the limit of decorations (800), and the thermometer still did not overheat! Also, decorations have a different limit then stickers. Unlike being able to place 100 of them on an object, you can only place 50. (Used the coin decoration) Thermo FAQ Do hazardous materials take up more thermo space than non-hazardous? To answer this, I lit the Sackboy Shape on fire. I was able to place 470 of them, which is the same amount as the Sackboy Shape not on fire. Does water affect my thermo? Shortly, no. Water by itself takes up no thermometer space. In a more detailed manner; also no. I placed 500 free-moving, cardboard blocks in the level and observed the thermometer. Adding water to the level did not change the thermo at all. Does a moving object take up more space than a non-moving object? Yes, moving objects take up much more space than non-moving objects. To prove it, I made 980 cardboard towers that were stuck into the ground, and therefore completely immobile. The thermometer reached just below the 6th notch mark. I then used 980 cardboard towers but did NOT place them in the ground, so they could move freely. They made the thermometer go up to the 11th notch! You will find that detatching many objects from the floor at once can make the thermometer jump a lot! So remember, always make objects immobile if you have the chance. Final Guide How to keep that thermo down! Using all that I've learned from my studies, I am now compiling a final guide on the basics of keeping your thermo low. Use these tips to lower your level's thermometer! -Use only the materials you need. You can make a beautiful level using just 5-8 materials! After all (from reading post 2), all materials take up thermometer. Use only the ones necessary. Try to use materials that are naturally low on the thermometer (again, post 2 can help here!). -Use the corner editing tool to delete unnessecary corners. This is a very simple thing you can do to easily lower your thermometer. Simply choose the corner editor from the gadgets bag, select a shape with it, and you can easily see the corners. Scrolling around the perimeter of the shape will make the cursor jump to the corners. When you find a little, uneeded corner, simply press triangle and it will be deleted! It can even make some things look better. This is especially important to do beforehand on objects you will be copying or emmiting alot! -Creatures eat a lot of thermometer; use only a couple, and make them good! If you plan on using creatures for your level, make sure they are actually worth it! -The limit of stickers (7000) may seem high, but don't be foolish about it! Stickers could eat away a very large chunk of your thermometer, if not used carefully! When copying or emmiting a stickered item multiple times, erase all unnessecary stickers, or they can really hurt your thermo! Instead of placing a sticker over a messed-up sticker, erase the messed-up sticker and place the new one. -Use dark matter and basic materials for your logic gates. There is no reason at all to use Beaded Fabric for your logic Use basic materials for your logic to keep the thermometer low. Not only will it be thermo-friendly, but logic usually works much better with basic materials! -When using emmiters, use the lowest settings possible. Emmiters are like thermometer devils. Emmiting just one object multiple times can take away a chunk of your thermometer. There is an easy way around this; simply use the lowest settings you can. If you only need your emmited item to last two seconds, change the 'Lifespan' from the default of five seconds to two. All of the other settings can be changed to help: if you only want three of an object emmited at once, make sure to make the 'Max Emmited at Once' three! -Make all objects that you can 'immobile'. Objects that are free moving take up much more thermometer space than objects connected to dark matter, connected to the ground, or glued to an object connected to the ground. I hope you enjoyed my unfinished guide! Feedback is much appreciated Final thanks goes out to... tanrockstan34- For testing lights and helping me with materials I didn't own. InfinityBound- For posting this guide on his website, LittleBigResource. Anyone who provided feedback or ideas!

2010-04-24 02:25:00 Author: Heckboy88 Posts: 179

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I don't like bumping threads, but two people thanked this and I didn't get any feedback, so... *hides face in shame*

2010-06-25 20:41:00 Author: Heckboy88 Posts: 179

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It's somewhat interesting to know the max for individual items (I must have 800+ decorations in my latest level!)...but suggesting that someone should only use a few materials isn't that helpful really. That probably won't be the limiting thermo by the time the level is complete...no point in being a scrooge with your materials. Sure it's disconcerting to see the thermo take a big jump early on...but the visual indication of the thermo is misleading.

2010-06-25 20:52:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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Wow, that's a lot of experimenting! Do you ever get to building a level? I don't think it's that people don't appreciate your effort, it's just that we already have a pretty good thermo guide which, while lacking the figures you have here, is good enough to help squeeze a lot out of the thermo already. No need to hide in shame!

2010-06-26 01:00:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Wow, that's a lot of experimenting! Do you ever get to building a level? I don't think it's that people don't appreciate your effort, it's just that we already have a pretty good thermo guide which, while lacking the figures you have here, is good enough to help squeeze a lot out of the thermo already. No need to hide in shame! Arg, I know, but when I asked (in my first thread at LBPC) if I should bring this guide from LBW over here even though they had a thermometer guide, everyone said yes. I'm just hoping this will help someone.

2010-06-26 01:43:00 Author: Heckboy88 Posts: 179

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Well, I'm still glad you did, may come in handy.

2010-06-28 22:19:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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