Archive: 12 posts

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I've made a new Permanent Switch that is easy to reset, but doesn't require any pistons or winches to activate. It uses very little thermometer and works via an emitter. It is also very small: When not activated, it uses 2 2x2 blocks of Dark Matter. When activated, and the key having been emitted, it uses 3 2x2 blocks of Dark Matter. It's basically the opposite of a dissolve-based P-switch. Instead of dissolving the key to activate the switch, it emits the key to activate the switch. To reset it, you just delete the emitted block. The input takes one-shot, but if you use on/off and tweak the frequency and lifetime you can get some nice strobe light effects. Here's a picture of it before being activated: http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/997/aphoto19.jpg Here's a picture of it after having been activated: http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/6146/aphoto20.jpg An explanation on the components: |K| |E-M| Where: E is Emitter (which emits the square of Dark Matter with the Magnetic Key on it) M is Magnetic Key Switch (which activates when the key is emitted, can be set to anything you like) K is Magnetic Key (which is on the emitted square of Dark Matter) To use it, just connect a button/switch/piece of logic to the Emitter and set the output of your button/switch/piece of logic to One Shot. To ConfusedCartman, comphermc, rtm223, and the rest of the creators of the Logic Pack: Could you take a look at this thing please, and if it proves to be very useful to you, perhaps integrate it into the Logic Pack? (with credit to me). You'll need a sharable copy, but if you need one, just ask me via LBPCentral or PSN. P.S: I'm going away this weekend, so if I don't respond, that would be why. For your raw data, i've tested this switch in a level that contains nothing, not even an entrance. Here is your raw data: The level almost overheats at: 360 P-switches. The level overheats at: 392 P-switches. (This is also valid in a level with an entrance in place) Recommended maximum amount of P-switches placed: 350 P-switches. The switch, along with a tutorial, is available in my level: "Logic: Emitter-based P-switch". If you're having trouble finding it, search for @robinlint

2010-04-23 11:18:00 Author: robbit10 Posts: 450

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Yep, it's not really new, but it totally works. I'm not sure we're going to update the level, to be honest. It's been many, many months.

2010-04-23 11:29:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Yep, it's not really new, but it totally works. I'm not sure we're going to update the level, to be honest. It's been many, many months. It's not new? Who made this before I did, then? Just curious. And okay, that's no problem. I'll just spread it out to many creators, and make it sharable.

2010-04-23 11:44:00 Author: robbit10 Posts: 450

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I have seen it mentioned several times here and on other forums. I wouldn't like to say who "came up with it" as I'm pretty sure a lot of people did independently. Nevertheless, key emitters are generally useful for a lot of logic functions and always a good technique to keep in mind.

2010-04-23 11:58:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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The only reason I don't use such a PERM is that emitters like to fire at interesting times when they're not supposed to. I build predominantly in pause mode, and when making an emitter perm, you have to unpause to make sure it's working properly. I'm picky, I know. That said, rtm, you should be honored... *glances at robinlint's signature*

2010-04-23 12:02:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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It's not new? Who made this before I did, then? I have seen it mentioned several times here and on other forums. I mentioned the idea a couple of weeks ago on rtm's visitor messages page (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/member.php?4150-rtm223&tab=visitor_messaging&page=2#visitor_messaging) in reference to his mutual exclusion switch (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=25067-Mutual-Exclusion-Switch) which was partially inspired by my zero-latency switch (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=23400-Zero-Latency-Set-Reset-and-Toggle-Switch), which is kinda like a double version of what you've posted... Interesting. The other one I thought of was a low-thermo resettable p-switch (certainly lower than the one in the logic pack), by just emitting a piece of DM with a mag key on it which you can later delete to reset, but not all that interesting, since the classic dissolve-based p-switch is probably as low thermo as you can get, and having it resettable isn't really all that useful, since you can just rewind in create mode. The whole idea of a resettable p-switch is somewhat useless when you take into account the 160-hour bug. If you're testing your level in create mode, then you should always rewind afterwards anyway, and if you're not, then you can't delete the key. So generally, I'd either stick with a traditional dissolve-based p-switch, or use some sort of SR-latch design if I need it to reset during play mode.

2010-04-23 12:46:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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The whole idea of a resettable p-switch is somewhat useless when you take into account the 160-hour bug. If you're testing your level in create mode, then you should always rewind afterwards anyway, and if you're not, then you can't delete the key.Mmmm... perhaps in a perfect world. I don't happen to live there though. Too often have I forgotten to pause again or accidentally toggled into play mode, and then after creating something new or making several important edits realized/remembered that I've triggered one of my perm switches. I long ago quit using dissolve-based perms for this reason. I hate having to go back and set them up again. I like this design, though I would have to agree that it's not really new. It is a good, clean, efficient one though.

2010-04-23 13:13:00 Author: v0rtex Posts: 1878

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Mmmm... perhaps in a perfect world. I don't happen to live there though. Too often have I forgotten to pause again or accidentally toggled into play mode, and then after creating something new or making several important edits realized/remembered that I've triggered one of my perm switches. This was effectively the original justification behind resettable perms. Quite a lot of things are easiest to fine tune / fix in unpaused mode, and small amount of time you use up doing these is very hard to push up to 160 hours, so I don't think the time and effort required to rewind them back and redo paused is necessarily worth while if the vast majority of your creating is in paused mode. I don't think the existence of the 160 hour bug removes the benefit of resettability.

2010-04-23 13:32:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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...small amount of time you use up doing these is very hard to push up to 160 hours... You'd think so, but it's surprising how some people who think this still get hit by it, particularly if you're working on the level for a very long time (like over a whole year). A few unpauses here and there can eventually add up to the point where the 160-hour bug becomes a problem. Also bear in mind that it's actually less than 160 hours - no-one's done any comprehensive research on this, but it may be as little as 10 hours before the bug kicks in. Actually, even before I bothered to compensate for the bug, I still tended to go with SR-latches instead of p-switches - that way, I could hook all the reset inputs up to a single button, and one push of the button would reset the entire system. ...so I don't think the time and effort required to rewind them back and redo paused is necessarily worth while if the vast majority of your creating is in paused mode... Well, it would seem to me that, in some cases, just rewinding is much simpler than going through all your p-switches and manually resetting them - particularly if you have a lot of them, and you have to do that anyway in cases where it's too awkward to reset by hand, such as dissolving parts of your level, or removing tons of paint/explosion stickers. Plus, I don't think it's all that much effort to reset the clock, particularly considering how much of a PITA it is if you do get hit by the bug, and have to transfer the level to a new crater. Still, it's all subjective, I suppose. These days I tend to pause the clock at zero time, and always rewind back to zero time, so let's just say that resettable p-switches are fairly worthless to me.

2010-04-23 14:28:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Well, it would seem to me that, in some cases, just rewinding is much simpler than going through all your p-switches and manually resetting them - particularly if you have a lot of them, and you have to do that anyway in cases where it's too awkward to reset by hand, such as dissolving parts of your level, or removing tons of paint/explosion stickers. You still have the option to rewind if your perms are resettable. Plus, in fairness, it's very rare that you'd set off something big (explosions and mass destruction), without noticing. The issue arises when you have a perm that triggers by prox and just sets a signal on the other side of the level, ready for some later event. It's very easy to trigger that and not realise it's broken for some time. That subtle scenario is where the problem arises and is not comparable to something like the generator room in Setbacks, which cannot be manually reset and is really quite obvious. Still, it's all subjective, I suppose. Of course, I don't think anyone is saying there is a definitive right and wrong here. Most times I rewind back, but sometimes I'll spend 5 minutes and make scores of changes and I'd rather have the option of resetting over a tedious rewind and reimpliment. Is all personal choice and it's gonna vary from person to person - one thing I find fascinating about OC is seeing how differently people work

2010-04-23 14:50:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I have seen it mentioned several times here and on other forums. I wouldn't like to say who "came up with it" as I'm pretty sure a lot of people did independently. Nevertheless, key emitters are generally useful for a lot of logic functions and always a good technique to keep in mind. Yeah. You could say that rtm alone invented Re/demitting, but I used this technique on a level before even knowing who the guy is. And I bet I'm not the only one, really.

2010-04-23 15:50:00 Author: Arradi Posts: 183

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Yeah bro, this concept is about as simple as it gets. No one deserves credit.

2010-05-24 00:46:00 Author: LilNeL Posts: 34

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