LBP Showcase / Reviews / Recommendations #1
Sack Scout Camp (LBR8 contest 2nd place)
Archive: 51 posts
| Sack Scout CampNanluin Hiking, swimming, caving, hang gliding, and bungy jumping: our camp has it all! What adventure will you have while trying to find your lost scout troop? Grab your backpack and find out! [adventure story; single player recommended] Dear Mom and Dad; Sack scout camp is great! There is so much to do, I hardly know where to begin. Our campsite is far out in the woods... http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af342/jerichardsonjr/Sack%20Scout%20Camp/SSC_08_campsite.jpg ...right next to this really neat cave! http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af342/jerichardsonjr/Sack%20Scout%20Camp/SSC_09_cave.jpg We've already done lots of stuff too. Like riding up to the top of this cool watch-tower... http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af342/jerichardsonjr/Sack%20Scout%20Camp/SSC_06_scout_tower.jpg ...and then bungee jumping off of it into the gorge below. http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af342/jerichardsonjr/Sack%20Scout%20Camp/SSC_07_bungy_jump.jpg I'm even taking hang gliding lessons! Although I'm still a little better at taking off than I am at landing. http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af342/jerichardsonjr/Sack%20Scout%20Camp/SSC_03_hang_glider_launch.jpg The wildlife here is pretty awesome, and will come right up to greet you! http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af342/jerichardsonjr/Sack%20Scout%20Camp/SSC_02_crocodile_run.jpg Although you do have to be a little careful when you get near their nests. http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af342/jerichardsonjr/Sack%20Scout%20Camp/SSC_11_blackbirds_revenge-1.jpg At any rate, I'm having a great time! I'll write more soon! http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/af342/jerichardsonjr/Sack%20Scout%20Camp/SSC_12_jamboree_ending-1.jpg Love, -- Sackboy This is my first published level, so all of your comments, feedback, criticism, and suggestions are most welcome and will be taken seriously. The level is a bit long (taking about 15 minutes to complete), and as such, I thank you in advance for the time spent in reviewing it. I also plan to see if I can get this level into good enough shape for an entry into the LittleBigReviewer's (LBR) 'April Tales' Trophy Contest (http://www.littlebigreviewers.com/?p=676), so your comments along those lines are especially welcome. Many thanks for your comments and feedback! -- Nanluin | 2010-04-20 06:25:00 Author: Nanluin  Posts: 98 |
| Based upon the first day's stats, this level is apparently proving itself to be more difficult for folks than I thought it would be (only 19 completions out of 153 plays, with 13 Hearts, 4 Stars, and "Beautiful" "Complex" "Tricky" tags). I went in today and changed all of the checkpoints to the Infinite Life variety: if someone has the perseverance to stick with it, I don't want to punish them with a depleted checkpoint at any step along the way (previously, only the final two checkpoints were Inf. LIfe). I also decreased the Flying Blackbird density (spawn rate) in the final "chase" scene by a notch, to make it a little less frustrating. -- Nanluin | 2010-04-21 10:31:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| I'll play it. | 2010-04-21 22:52:00 Author: X-FROGBOY-X  Posts: 1800 |
Hey Nanluin, I played your level today. I see your posts about the difficulty, but I didn't really find it that difficult. Anyways, this is a really nice level! Especially since it's your first. I had a great time playing through this one. Your story line is unique, your visuals are very good, and you have some really fun gameplay in there. I have just a couple of gripes though. The part with the bungee jumping. I jumped down, and I was bouncing around having fun, but I didn't know where to drop. I let go, and died when I hit the gas at the bottom. Then the bungee thing stayed at the bottom, then came shooting up and broke. Don't know if that was suppose to happen, but oh well. That second ball is pretty hard to catch hold of. I finally did though. My only other gripe is the black birds at the end. They are way too random for me. I felt like I had no control over whether I died or not. They come too fast to react. So you just have to keep going till you get lucky, and make it through. Don't take my complaints the wrong way though. I think you did a great job with this level overall. Great work!! Could you give me feedback on my LBP Paint Factory? Thanks. | 2010-04-22 00:10:00 Author: smasher  Posts: 641 |
| i'll check this level soon, be right back with comments | 2010-04-22 00:16:00 Author: Chump  Posts: 1712 |
| Anyways, this is a really nice level! Especially since it's your first. I had a great time playing through this one. Your story line is unique, your visuals are very good, and you have some really fun gameplay in there. Thanks, Smasher! The part with the bungee jumping. I jumped down, and I was bouncing around having fun, but I didn't know where to drop. I let go, and died when I hit the gas at the bottom. Then the bungee thing stayed at the bottom, then came shooting up and broke. Don't know if that was suppose to happen, but oh well. That second ball is pretty hard to catch hold of. I finally did though. First, I think that I'll add a bit more dialogue to the little scout who "manages" the bungee jump, telling you to hang out at the bottom after your jump while he "sends down" the retrieval winch for you. That way you'll know to wait for the second ball to drop, and then transfer over to it -- if you wait until the elastic settles down on the first, the transfer from one to the other is pretty painless -- you can even use your control stick to 'settle' yourself when dangling from the first ball. Second, with regard to the breakage: sorry about that. I've worked on that issue a good bit, such that if you die, the bungee jump resets properly and you get to try it again. The problem lies in that I have a winch and piece of elastic connected in series, with a small block of wood between them -- LBP physics can be a little wonky in that case. The fast, bungee jump winch now resets about 95% of the time without breaking, but I continue to look for ways to improve that. My only other gripe is the black birds at the end. They are way too random for me. I felt like I had no control over whether I died or not. They come too fast to react. So you just have to keep going till you get lucky, and make it through. Yeah, I keep looking for a better way to tune-up that chase scene and allow you a little more dodge control (but still with plenty of incoming dive-bombers to make it fun) -- otherwise you're right: sometimes you get a good 'run' and sometimes you get creamed by them. There is definitely an out-of-player control random factor to my little tribute to Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds. I'll go back to my 'workshop' and see if I can fine-tune the Flying Blackbirds so that they are more neutral in buoyancy, and thus allow the "blackbird turrents" that fire them at you to be set to slower speeds...giving you a chance to dodge the incoming avian 'missile' a bit better. Right now, the speed has to be high enough such that they reach your mountain path before swooping back up again. Could you give me feedback on my LBP Paint Factory? Thanks Next chance I get (next day or so). Many thanks for the input! -- Nanluin | 2010-04-22 01:04:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| I'm a big fan of endurance levels like this, it looks awesome! From the pictures, I'm in love with your crocodile design. I'll give it a play. Btw, a tip: Never let completion rate, tags, and stars discourage you. LBP is played heavily by five year olds that don't know how to change layers.  | 2010-04-22 02:38:00 Author: Incinerator22  Posts: 3251 |
| Let me start off by saying I really enjoyed the levels gameplay, it was fun and rewarding, I never had a moment where I thought this is too hard (I did find some parts frustrating but skill wise not hard), I know some people though who would struggle greatly with the difficulty. I also thought the check points were well placed (I've had levels that drive me insane where there is a difficult platforming segment and when I die I have to run 10 seconds back to where it was). I also really liked the alligators and that weird serpent thing in the cave. I can't say that I was really motivated to finish the level because of the story, I liked it for it's gameplay mostly, but the story did pull the level together well. My only major complaint about the level is the ending part with all the birds attacking you. I felt like there was no indication of when and where they were going to come from and I often found myself getting killed on the spawn points. I ended up having to memorize their spawn locations. I think that this could be fixed by just having a zoomed out camera zone in order to give the player more time to react instead of getting killed by a bird they only saw like .1 seconds ago. These are just nit picky things that I noticed while playing, they aren't anything in dire need of change and the gameplay doesn't suffer from them, I found it a little odd that some of the cave parts were so triangular, I felt like some areas were really flat in comparison to other parts of your level, the random floating prize bubbles, for me, took away from the immersion of the level, at the mushroom part I found the use of the paintinator a little abrupt but I really liked that part regardless, and finally the ending was too abrupt. Overall I gave this level 4 stars and heart to the creator, (I can't wait to see what comes next). | 2010-04-22 02:50:00 Author: zynax555  Posts: 170 |
| My only major complaint about the level is the ending part with all the birds attacking you. I felt like there was no indication of when and where they were going to come from and I often found myself getting killed on the spawn points. I ended up having to memorize their spawn locations. I think that this could be fixed by just having a zoomed out camera zone in order to give the player more time to react instead of getting killed by a bird they only saw like .1 seconds ago. I put some time in the workshop tonight and got the Flying Blackbirds to very close to neutral buoyancy, which in turn permitted me to reduce their emitter velocities for the chase scene at the end of the level. They are now, for the most part, quite dodge-able, with just enough random to keep you guessing. I play-tested the old version enough to where they feel very slow and a bit too easy (as a final climax) now, but I'll go with it. It also makes the level Ace-able now too, I -think- (the length makes that hard, regardless). I found it a little odd that some of the cave parts were so triangular, I felt like some areas were really flat in comparison to other parts of your level Unfortunately, I'm still on the learning curve with regard to how big to make the individual parts of a large structure, and the cave portion suffered somewhat from my ignorance in that area. I built the basic layout and the problem set in generally straight-line sections that could be easily shifted and modified, with the intention to go back and "cave-ify" the entire thing afterward. As it turned out, several of these sections were too large in size and thus hit the corner-editor failure bug after just a bit of tweaking to turn the place into a more natural, random cave structure. As such, the thing isn't nearly as good-looking a cave as I would like it to be. That said, I'll do some more playing around with it. It's been nagging me. the random floating prize bubbles, for me, took away from the immersion of the level, at the mushroom part I found the use of the paintinator a little abrupt but I really liked that part regardless, and finally the ending was too abrupt. I hear you on the score/prize bubbles (that they were sort of "just there" and not part of the natural setting. In that regard, the only place they fit were as electric eel eggs (which is what my kids called them in that section). I tried to make them all very *optional*: you could collect them or not if you wanted to take the time, or just ignore them (with the exception of the cave-maze, where I used them to fill in the dead ends, but realized that I had to make the actual path the same way...else the path would have been clearly marked). With regard to the paintinator use (called and used as a Water Gun in the level): it just seemed like a unique way to use it -- no killing anything, just...watering toadstools?! Thanks for the input, everyone -- it's much appreciated. -- Nanluin | 2010-04-22 03:33:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| With regard to the paintinator use (called and used as a Water Gun in the level): it just seemed like a unique way to use it -- no killing anything, just...watering toadstools?! -- Nanluin I take back what I said before about the paintinator. I just realized that when playing the level I only really paid attention to the properties of the mushrooms and I didn't really catch on that I was watering them. That makes much more sense now. | 2010-04-22 05:38:00 Author: zynax555 Posts: 170 |
| I played through your level a couple of times. I really liked the story and I thought you had some great contraptions. --I also had problems with your bungee section. I thought your scout was saying to let go and wait at the bottom. When I respawned the bungee broke on the way up. I was able to jump out to the retrieval rope to get across. --aesthetically, I thought some of the grassy areas did feel a little flat. At least at the beginning. But where the trees rose up around the grass looked great. I liked the cave a lot. The shifting triangle rock looked fine to me. In fact it looked kinda like a skull. You could dress it up in that regard. Like some kind of relic statue/contraption. I look forward to seeing more from you. | 2010-04-22 10:43:00 Author: Snackyp  Posts: 7 |
| This was a very challenging Long fun and Great Platforming Level. Love the story with scouts and the humor added into the journey along the way. Great Crocs in the water snaping at you when your making your decent love the birds killing you on your decent up from bungie jumping Also the piranas ( i didnt spell that right) where killer lol Only prob i had was using the paintonator to get the mushrooms up and down to get the key to the other side it just took a lot of time to get the dang thing over XD Great level definately hearting this and rating this 5 stars Plz play my level Adept Ninja --- feedback apreaciated | 2010-04-22 11:46:00 Author: Mike0_o  Posts: 51 |
| --I also had problems with your bungee section. I thought your scout was saying to let go and wait at the bottom. When I respawned the bungee broke on the way up. I was able to jump out to the retrieval rope to get across. Oops! Poor wording choice on my part, Snackyp :blush: He did say to "hang out at the bottom" didn't he? I've now changed that to "Once you've completed your jump, just hang on for a few moments, while I lower the retrieval winch to you." Regarding the bungee-jump breakage-on-reset issue (if you die and have to do it again): I did some brainstorming during my morning commute, and -think- that I can take advantage of the fact that winches can pull but they can't push, and install an invisible, counter-winch on the bungee-jump which allows the player to drop/fall quickly (the counter-winch's 'push' direction), but forces the bungy-jump to reset more slowly (the counter-winch's 'pull' direction) and thus avoid breakage-on-reset. I'll have to experiment a bit --> this puts two winches connected to the same object (opposite to each other), one 'normal' and one 'inverted', but trying to move at different speeds (one slow and one fast). I need to verify which one 'wins' in each direction, especially when gravity is added. Thanks for the feedback -- I'll continue to work the issue. --aesthetically, I thought some of the grassy areas did feel a little flat. At least at the beginning. But where the trees rose up around the grass looked great. I liked the cave a lot. The shifting triangle rock looked fine to me. In fact it looked kinda like a skull. You could dress it up in that regard. Like some kind of relic statue/contraption I'll do some dress-up work on the 'fault zone' section of the cave, and see if I can get those moving blocks to fit the scene better, appearance-wise. The grassy areas will get some dress-up work too. Thank you for the kind review! -- Nanluin | 2010-04-22 15:40:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Great Crocs in the water snaping at you when your making your decent love the birds killing you on your decent up from bungie jumping Also the piranas ( i didnt spell that right) where killer lol Thanks -- the animals were a lot of fun to create and animate (I seem to be much better a producing the caricature of an animal than that of a person, for now). When I produced the 'river crossing' section, I had jumping, spawning salmon in mind, but my boys call them "piranha's" too.  Only prob i had was using the paintonator to get the mushrooms up and down to get the key to the other side it just took a lot of time to get the dang thing over XD I think puzzles will always be one of those things that strike each player differently: "too easy" to some, "fun and just right" to others, and "darn frustrating" to the rest. About the best you can do is aim for the middle. Clear instructions and an easy to follow layout/goal are crucial. On the downside of 'clear instructions', however, the "professor" looking scout master in the Toadstool Grotto does sort of drone on and on....I did try to minimize the fluff and give only necessary information, but the guy still wound up with seven magic mouths on him, only one of which I could eliminate (the 'intro&apos .Thanks for sticking with it and beating it! Plz play my level Adept Ninja --- feedback apreaciated I'll get to it at the next opportunity (i.e. when I can wrangle my 9-year-old off the PS3 and LBP). I doubt, however, that I will prove to be a very "adept ninja" o.O -- Nanluin | 2010-04-22 16:03:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Regarding the bungee jump breaking upon player death and jump-setup reset: I did some brainstorming during my morning commute, and -think- that I can take advantage of the fact that winches can pull but they can't push, and install an invisible, counter-winch on the bungee-jump which allows the player to drop/fall quickly (the counter-winch's 'push' direction), but forces the bungy-jump to reset more slowly (the counter-winch's 'pull' direction) and thus avoid breakage-on-reset. This idea seems to have worked nicely, and the problem appears to be solved. Please let me know if the thing breaks on anybody else! Multi-player Note: I also went through the final part of this level with some other players, and found out quite quickly that this level is definitely [single player recommended]. Perhaps two can do it as a close pair, but three was quite awkward....funny...but not good. I'll keep that in mind for my next level. EDIT (23 Apr): I did some further dress-up and decorating, paying particular attention to the cave's moving triangular blocks and flat sections of walkway in grassy areas and within the cave. The moving 'fault zone' section of the cave should fit the theme of the rest of that area noticeably better now. The 'feel' I was after for that section was that of an ant-farm, with short passages and small chambers, all moving or sliding past one another and forcing the player to traverse from one 'stub passage' to the next. It would have been more effective if this section had been a little more extensive...a little longer. I'll put some work into 'roughing up' / naturalizing the final chase path this afternoon. EDIT (24 Apr) Additional tweaks made (Thermometer now bouncing off the top): ** Fine-tuned bungee jump for increased reliability for reset upon player death & retry. ** Fine-tuned final blackbird flock chase scene, and added camera zones along the path which give a wider field-of-view for increased bird-dodge potential. ** Added a few more miscellaneous plants, leaves, corner-edited some tree branches, and so forth -- bringing the atmosphere and "realism" as high as the Thermometer would let me. -- Nanluin | 2010-04-23 04:48:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| I really liked this level. It is very long but that's not a problem 'cause it's not repetetive. There's a lot of varied imaginative obstacles, I love that bit with the diagonally moving rock with tunnels in it, and it's all tied together with a story that makes sense. The only criticism I have is that there's several places where I died a lot and had to start over, so a challenge that would only take 1 minute if I knew how to do it ended up taking 5 minutes because I died a lot and there's no checkpoint in the middle. But with most of them I can't see any way you could put a checkpoint in the middle, and it's not a major problem just a little frustrating. Please try my level Acid Reign (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=25893-Acid-Reign) and let me know what you think. | 2010-04-25 14:00:00 Author: TekF  Posts: 4 |
| Thank you for looking it over, TekF. I appreciate it! The only criticism I have is that there's several places where I died a lot and had to start over, so a challenge that would only take 1 minute if I knew how to do it ended up taking 5 minutes because I died a lot and there's no checkpoint in the middle. What parts/sections specifically did you find hard to figure out? Would adding hint bubbles (like Luos and Adi's butterflies) help? I've test played it so much, as has my boys, that we've lost perspective regarding how someone brand new to the place would see it. Thanks again! -- Nanluin | 2010-04-25 14:07:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Ok here's a few examples: Riding the backs of turtles - this took me at least 5 minutes to do something that an experienced player could do in 30 seconds! The problem I had was I couldn't tell when the waterfalls of toxic gas were going to kill me. It wasn't obvious what depth they were on. I initially thought they were on the thin layer so would only hit me when jumping between layers, but I died several times by standing on a turtle that moved into one of them. The only way I could work out the sequence of jumps was trial and error, literally dying on each jump and starting over to learn when to jump. This could all be fixed by making the hazard more visible, e.g. shine a red spotlight down the waterfall to change the colour of the turtles when they're in a lethal area. The diagonal-sliding rock - I really like this bit, but I got crushed a few times and it takes some time to get through when you go back to the start each time. A simple checkpoint in the middle of this section would help. The birds that peck at you when you climb the rock face (after jumping on their eggs), is there any way to dodge them? This isn't a big problem because it's possible to traverse those rocks pretty quickly, so even getting pinged back to the check point doesn't result in too much boredom, but it does seem like I'm just dying randomly. The diagonal-chain lift with the spikes - I really like this, but I honestly nearly quit the level on the 5th time I died on that last set of spikes! I don't know how you can fix it without removing a really nice challenge, but it moves so slowly that dying at the top is a real pain in the neck! Every time I died I asked myself "is the rest of this level good enough to spend another few minutes trying to get past this obstacle?" Luckily, the answer was "yes". As a general observation, the frustrating things are all proceeding at their own pace, i.e. even an expert player will have to spend a minimum of 20 seconds (or whatever) to get past these obstacles. When you combine that with returning to the start a few times (from my own inability) it adds up to a lot of time, and hence boredom. If I could carry on from half-way through it would be much less of a problem. Likewise if I could anticipate my death more accurately I wouldn't die as much (by having better indication of where the turtles/birds are going to kill you). For comparison: I enjoyed the bungee jump even though I died just about as much on that as on any of the other bits, but because it's quick it's a lot easier to just try again and refine your technique. The winch on the way up is slow but the birds that attack you are much easier to avoid, so I only died there once, so the slow winch never became annoying. There's a few other places, but I think you get the general idea. And like I say, this is only a small frustration I have with a very good level. I don't necessarily think you should go changing things just 'cause I found it a bit annoying, but hopefully I've offered some useful info. Cheers, TekF | 2010-04-26 14:02:00 Author: TekF Posts: 4 |
| Thanks for describing your problem areas, TekF; Riding the backs of turtles - this took me at least 5 minutes to do something that an experienced player could do in 30 seconds! The problem I had was I couldn't tell when the waterfalls of toxic gas were going to kill me. It wasn't obvious what depth they were on. I initially thought they were on the thin layer so would only hit me when jumping between layers, but I died several times by standing on a turtle that moved into one of them. The only way I could work out the sequence of jumps was trial and error, literally dying on each jump and starting over to learn when to jump. This could all be fixed by making the hazard more visible, e.g. shine a red spotlight down the waterfall to change the colour of the turtles when they're in a lethal area. ** I've changed the color of the gas strip (now strips) in the murky water the turtles swim in, such that these strips now match the color of the gassy 'waterfalls' which pour into them (enough wisps of 'fog' rise above the water level to mark them reasonably well). This now forms a white-blue-white pattern for the back-middle-front thick layers, providing the player with an indication as to which turtle is swimming in which layer, and which 'waterfall' pours into which layer. Aesthetically, this section looks much better if all of the water and waterfalls are white, but it also has to be *playable* too. Another clue is provided in that If you look above the turtle pool to where the waterfalls are coming from, the blue (middle layer) falls are positioned below and in front of the white (back layer) falls (a bit too symmetrically for a natural cave, but meh). The front layer is a free-ride zone, with no falls. ** I'll look at the possibility of lighting the falls from above or below with spotlights, to highlight their 'landing zones' better -- thanks for that idea. I had played around previously with putting a "splash" of color on the back of each turtle, corresponding to the color of 'waterfall' that he dives under, but instead it looked like a bird had pooped on them, right where I wanted players to step...so I nixxed the idea. ** I set up the camera zone for the turtle pool with the intention of giving the player a wide enough field-of-view such that he/she could scope out the first half of the problem from the 'shore', and thus avoid the trial-and-error-deaths that you went through. Once you make it out to the third turtle (the free-ride one), you have another chance to just sit and scope out the turtle's swimming pattern, and figure out your moves to complete the pool. I'll go back and verify that the camera views are working as intended. Scoping out the turtle layers probably isn't the problem --> the waterfall layers are, as per the comments above. ** Hint: the best way to traverse the turtle pool is to *step gently* (forward and back) from turtle to turtle...no jumping necessary. I get the idea that folks are so used to jump-jump-jump, that they make this harder than it actually is...a gentle, timed dance on the turtle's backs. ** Note: the 'turtle pool' section was one of those where the concept was better than the LBP execution, primarily due to the way in which Deadly Gas is rendered in-game: it's hard to tell WHAT layer it's in: there's no shading or perspective effect, and it is rendered as "thin" even in the middle of a thick layer. Creator's lesson learned: I'll avoid playing layer-jump games with Deadly Gas as the obstacle in future levels. The diagonal-sliding rock - I really like this bit, but I got crushed a few times and it takes some time to get through when you go back to the start each time. A simple checkpoint in the middle of this section would help. The rumbling "rockfall and fault-zone" section of the cave does have a checkpoint at each end, but I'll take a serious look at adding one or two interim ones. The birds that peck at you when you climb the rock face (after jumping on their eggs), is there any way to dodge them? This isn't a big problem because it's possible to traverse those rocks pretty quickly, so even getting pinged back to the check point doesn't result in too much boredom, but it does seem like I'm just dying randomly. I fine-tuned this final 'chase scene' further over the weekend, and added camera zones which pull the field-of-view further back and give the player more warning and a chance to dodge the angry birds. I've also slowed down their flight speeds to something more avoidable. I still want this section to be difficult -- it's my equivalent of a "boss fight" -- but not overly so. The diagonal-chain lift with the spikes - I really like this, but I honestly nearly quit the level on the 5th time I died on that last set of spikes! I don't know how you can fix it without removing a really nice challenge, but it moves so slowly that dying at the top is a real pain in the neck! That's alright, TekF -- the diagonal chain-lift of Doom still gets me sometimes too. I purposefully added score bubbles to the walls there to act as an effective hint to the player as to how to get through the thing: swing left! now swing right! now swing left! and so forth; although it's possible for one of those bubbles to impede the swing if the mechanism hits one, rather than the player (I'm eyeballing that for additional fine-tuning). It's also possible to just carefully hang out in the middle of the shaft, but that's more difficult. I played around with a few ways of managing that winch for the ride up, with an efficient reset if you died, and the current configuration was the best that I found (shortest wait times at the bottom) -- with dying at the very end/top being the worst case scenario (sorry about that!). In the future for something like that, I will probably set up an "escalator" arrangement with a track and emitters (and no wait time to try again), but that seemed too fancy for a rustic, sack-scout camp....in reality, they would just have a rope that you would haul yourself up the slope on. There's a few other places, but I think you get the general idea. And like I say, this is only a small frustration I have with a very good level. I don't necessarily think you should go changing things just 'cause I found it a bit annoying, but hopefully I've offered some useful info. Thank you very much for the input -- I appreciate it. The level was designed to have ever increasing difficulty as you went through it, but perhaps I over-did it with regard to the average LBP player --> last night, the level had about 200 completions out of 1600 total loads, for a completion ratio of only 12% or so. The long length, along with the slowly escalating difficultly contribute to this, and I'm sure that the Toadstool Grotto puzzle causes a few "Next!" 's to occur also. Tis' to be expected, but I don't mind making minor changes to improve the likelihood of success for those who do want to finish it. -- Nanluin | 2010-04-26 16:32:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| This is a really cool level with lots of gameplay and action but I have a suggestion for you have you ever try to use the 3D glitch it will create a really nice background instead of just seeing a normal background but still I will give it a :star::star::star::star: it is a really nice level that people should play | 2010-04-27 00:05:00 Author: Arnald23  Posts: 1843 |
| This is a really cool level with lots of gameplay and action but I have a suggestion for you have you ever try to use the 3D glitch it will create a really nice background instead of just seeing a normal background..... Thank you for the compliment, Arnaldo. My intention is to begin experimenting with the 3D layer glitch for my next story-oriented level creation, but even then, only selectively -- where it will have the best visual impact. For "Sack Scout Camp," I wanted to gain experience with the "normal" or "standard" level creation techniques first, before I began branching out into the more exotic. Further level edits, in the Turtle Pool portion of the cave: In order to make the layer of each (gas) waterfall more visible, I've installed appropriately colored Fairy Lights at the base of each. Above the water's surface, this adds a nice "foggy spray" effect to the waterfall where it hits the water-line. However, I'm still not happy with the way the lights look *below* the water's surface (sort of like below-water-level pool lights), although each waterfall's layer IS more clearly marked this way. I'll play around with it further this evening. Spotlights shining down from above or below didn't look good at all. Suggestions for how to improve the visual of this section (or any section, for that matter) are welcome. The Thermo for this level is at the top, but some thermo-conservation moves can perhaps be done to gain a bit of wiggle-room for minor additions. -- Nanluin | 2010-04-27 16:46:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| I played this a while back, it was a lot of fun. Everything was put together very nicely, I could tell you knew a lot about logic, for example, the mushroom part, and the part with the bird houses. The characters were crafted nicely too, there was plenty of great gameplay and visuals throughout the level. I thought the alligator section was pretty cool too, I thought it was going to eat me again and again. It was nice to have a new scouts master for every new event, it showed you put a lot more effort into the level than most people usually do. So overall, this was a great level in every aspect, good luck with the contest. I rated it :star::star::star::star::star:.  | 2010-04-27 22:18:00 Author: X-FROGBOY-X Posts: 1800 |
| I played this a while back, it was a lot of fun. Everything was put together very nicely, I could tell you knew a lot about logic, for example, the mushroom part, and the part with the bird houses. The characters were crafted nicely too, there was plenty of great gameplay and visuals throughout the level. I thought the alligator section was pretty cool too, I thought it was going to eat me again and again. It was nice to have a new scouts master for every new event, it showed you put a lot more effort into the level than most people usually do. Psst...don't tell anyone, but the Swamp Crocodiles (that you pass over) and the Cave Crocodile (that you get to go swimming with) are all tuned to AVOID actually biting you: their tracker system tries to put you just in front of their noses...just close enough to nibble your feet, but not close enough to kill you. If you work at it, however, you can get them to bite you. I figured everyone had seen enough ultra-lethal, rocket-powered, uber-crocs and uber-sharks. My guys are primarily there for noise and effect (and no, there are NO human screams when you get close to them...just crocodile grunts).Thanks for the kind review, Frogboy. I'm glad you enjoyed it! -- Nanluin | 2010-04-28 04:26:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
I just tried playing this level. It's really cool, all of the characters and living animals definitely made it feel alive. It reminded me of Psychonauts. I couldn't get very far, though, because the bungie jump thing broke.  I'll try it again though. | 2010-04-28 06:51:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664 |
| I just tried playing this level. It's really cool, all of the characters and living animals definitely made it feel alive. It reminded me of Psychonauts. I couldn't get very far, though, because the bungie jump thing broke. Well.....Grrrr. Seems to be the bane of this level for me --> I thought I had licked that issue, darn it! I'll do some more work on it. Perhaps an emitted bungee-jump assembly that re-spawns if you die and retry. Thanks for attempting it! I apologize for the breakage issue. :blush: It doesn't occur very often, but obviously often enough still to be inconvenient. -- Nanluin | 2010-04-28 13:56:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Update: The bungee jump reset-breakage problem IS NOW SOLVED. The entire bungee-jump assembly is now replaced each time a player dies on the jump and respawns at the checkpoint, such that a "fresh" setup is there for each repeated try. This fix is due to some @rtm223 Demitter technology: thank you, RTM223! My own attempt at this fix involved an emitted assembly with a brain, so that it could be 'killed off' and re-emitted upon reset. This resulting in the player *gaining* points each time they died -- which seemed a little backwards -- and also permitted a little 'points mill' there at the jump. The notion of putting the emitter on a fast piston and upon reset, *briefly* emitting the object elsewhere, then re-emitting it where you actually want it to be, is a clever one. You guys rock! EDIT (1 May 10): I made some major changes to the music at the end of the level in order to clearly indicate to the player that "this is the final hurdle, the climax of the level," and then "cool off and celebrate" from there. Since I have used various tracks from "Deep Blue Quay" (POTC) throughout the level, I stuck with the POTC package for the ending bits, such that the orchestration, at least, remained consistent. Let me know how this works, musically, for you guys. -- Nanluin -------------------- Currently awaiting return reviews from: CYMBOL, Skeggers | 2010-04-29 15:16:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Your level was pretty fun Nanluin. It always looked nice to look at, and had lots of different game play that never got boring. Here's the things I thought needed changing when I was playing that effect gameplay --I played the game two times actually. The first time I died to those electric eels about five times, I got frustrated, so I decided to try again later. The second time went a lot more smoothly. I was able to get the skull and put it into the crate without dying once. My difficulty with the first attempt might have been me just trying to rush past it and getting more annoyed and each failed attempt. --I died when the Glider crashed and exploded, probably because I held on too long and didn't let go. Maybe you can do without the explosion somehow. --I died a lot at the bungee jump. I didn't realize that there was black gas at the sides, so I died twice there. I also realize you have to put the gas there, otherwise you get trapped if you let go so I'm not sure what you can do. --The birds guarding the nests got me quite a few times. As soon as you drop down on their platform the right one moves toward you, but it moves fast enough that you have to jump quickly to avoid his spikes, I also didn't know there was spikes behind him, so I thought I was safe when I jumped behind him, but then he killed me anyway. --The part where the bridge collapses took me by surprise as I'm sure you intended it to, but then I saw the croc in the water and was killed instantly by his side spikes without having a chance to swim away, I felt a bit cheated from that death. --The moving rock part after the big croc wasn't hard, but right after that are some more falling rocks, I died to one of them and had to redo the moving rocks, which went a bit slow. There's a checkpoint right after the falling rocks and near an elevator, I think if you move that checkpoint back a bit, it would be a lot better. All the other parts in the level were fine for me, and didn't give me any trouble, the parts that did give me trouble, were still fun to do as well. Here's some things I can think of that don't effect game play that could be added. --A Scout telling you to be careful of those jumping fish. --All the badges you earned shown at the end of the level. (Bungee Badge, Bird fighting Badge, Gliding Badge) Although I know your thermometer is close to overheating, It would be a cool addition. --A Scout sleeping in one of the tents you see. That's all I can think of. The Crocs in the level were probably my favorite thing. They Looked so creepy. Here's my F4F level Lake of Lost Soul's Remade (First Cavern) (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=25977-Lake-of-Lost-Souls-s-Remade-%28First-Cavern%29) | 2010-05-02 05:00:00 Author: MetaHybrid Posts: 27 |
| Thank you very much for the feedback, MetaHybrid. It's much appreciated. WARNING! SPOILERS BELOW, for those who haven't played the level yet: --I played the game two times actually. The first time I died to those electric eels about five times, I got frustrated, so I decided to try again later. The second time went a lot more smoothly. The eels look worse than they actually are. I take advantage of the fact that your 'toon tends to free-swim in the front thick layer, but as soon as you grab the skull, you will shift to the middle thick layer. So rather than a 'clump' of five eels, it's really only three as you enter the cavity, and two as you exit the cavity -- with the eels moving in a wave pattern in each respective direction. --I died when the Glider crashed and exploded, probably because I held on too long and didn't let go. Maybe you can do without the explosion somehow. I tuned that glider collision pretty thoroughly, such that the vast majority of the time, you just blast on through the debris without even turning your 'toon black, much less dying. Even if you do, there is an Infinite Life checkpoint right there, so you just pop out right where you died at, and the gameplay continues. I don't expect anyone to let go until all motion stops and the scoutmaster there begins to "chew you out" for your wreckless piloting skills. --I died a lot at the bungee jump. I didn't realize that there was black gas at the sides, so I died twice there. The scoutmaster for the tower tells you that you aren't going any further without traversing the tower, and I made the gas on the rocks quite obvious there...I figured players would assume that *all* of the rock floors/walls underneath the tower were hazardous until further notice. The gas isn't hidden or invisible, but it is a bit thin on the canyon walls, in order to give players plenty of bouncing room. --The birds guarding the nests got me quite a few times. As soon as you drop down on their platform the right one moves toward you, but it moves fast enough that you have to jump quickly to avoid his spikes, I also didn't know there was spikes behind him, so I thought I was safe when I jumped behind him, but then he killed me anyway. Both birds guarding the birdhouses exist as a hazard only in the middle thick layer. This means that you are safe on the bungee jump (front layer), but *not* safe on the way up on the retrieval winch (middle layer). On the way down on the elevator, you can dodge the guard-bird by moving to the back layer, go behind him, and either dash back and forth a couple of times to get around him, or just jump up on him from behind in order to get to the birdhouse. --The part where the bridge collapses took me by surprise as I'm sure you intended it to, but then I saw the croc in the water and was killed instantly by his side spikes without having a chance to swim away, I felt a bit cheated from that death. The wall of the rock 'chute' that you fall down after the bridge collapses is slanted to the left in order to direct your fall into the water on the left of the cave croc. If you "just fall", you won't touch him, and I figured most folks would see him and dodge even further to the left, but you must have just kept your joystick all the way to the right and ran into him. Again, there's an Inf. Life checkpoint not far from the chute, so your only loss was a few points. --The moving rock part after the big croc wasn't hard, but right after that are some more falling rocks, I died to one of them and had to redo the moving rocks, which went a bit slow. There's a checkpoint right after the falling rocks and near an elevator, I think if you move that checkpoint back a bit, it would be a lot better. That's twice now someone's mentioned another checkpoint in the middle of that sequence -- I'll look into it. All the other parts in the level were fine for me, and didn't give me any trouble... Hah! Which tells me that the final Blackbird Flock's Revenge bit is now TOO easy.... --A Scout telling you to be careful of those jumping fish. --All the badges you earned shown at the end of the level. (Bungee Badge, Bird fighting Badge, Gliding Badge) Although I know your thermometer is close to overheating, It would be a cool addition. --A Scout sleeping in one of the tents you see. Thanks for the suggestions. The thermo on the level is totally full now, after the bungee jump repair. I thought that the jumping fish (with spikes for noses) were a pretty obvious hazard (the only reason I warned you about the eels is because then are hard to see until you dive into the pond). After "reveille" in the morning, no one is permitted to be in their tents -- hence why the camp is empty while the scouts are out and about. The badge idea is cute, although your conflict with the blackbirds is rather an 'accident' that your scoutmasters would not be happy to hear about..."You've been doing WHAT to their eggs? No wonder they're mobbing you!" I'll get to reviewing your level soon. Again, thanks a lot for the feedback! -- Nanluin | 2010-05-02 06:52:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| jumping fish (with spikes for noses) were a pretty obvious hazard Nanluin Whoops, my mistake, I knew the fish were a hazard. What I meant to say was to have a scout just tell you about the crazy jumping fish, like a funny line of dialogue. Also looking back at the eel part, it was easy, I was just rushing through it. The last part wasn't hard, I was able to avoid the birds fairly easily. Looks like I died on a lot of the easy parts | 2010-05-02 07:04:00 Author: MetaHybrid Posts: 27 |
| You have pretty fun level there. It looks organic and haves many unique concepts and obstacles. Difficulty of this level isn't overwhelming but well balanced and never frustrating. Level quite well polished but I am afraid of tell that I broke the bungee jumping parts retrieval winch by getting it stuck under one of those birds. I was still able to continue by dropping myself top of one of birds. In the cave I would suggest to tweak camera of waterfalls to avoid running to water before It can be recognized as I did. Idea of waterfalls is itself good but those waterfalls look pretty static and I first thought that they were some kind strange crystals or icicles so you could do something to make them appear more dynamic. Other than that I enjoyed whole level. :star::star::star::star::star: and tagged "Satisfying" | 2010-05-02 09:21:00 Author: waD_Delma  Posts: 282 |
| ...I am afraid of tell that I broke the bungee jumping parts retrieval winch by getting it stuck under one of those birds. I was still able to continue by dropping myself top of one of birds. In general, if the retrieval winch gets caught on one of the protecting birds (which can occur on your way up -- along with your own death-by-bird-claw), resetting / retrying the jump will un-stick it. Just bungee jump again, and it will lower again and let you retry. It's pretty darn hard to get it stuck in *both* directions or break it. In the cave I would suggest to tweak camera of waterfalls to avoid running to water before It can be recognized as I did. Idea of waterfalls is itself good but those waterfalls look pretty static and I first thought that they were some kind strange crystals or icicles so you could do something to make them appear more dynamic. I agree, and the next time I do waterfalls, I'll put in some serious effort into making them look more realistic. I went in today and on the teeny bit of Thermo I was able to clear via a bit of de-cornering, I added in some falling paint-balls inside of each waterfall. These are primarily there to indicate which waterfall lands where, and to also lend a more dynamic sense to what is going on -- water splash when no turtle is there, paint splash and color when a turtle is there. It ain't very pretty, but it's better than what it was. Thanks for the comments! -- Nanluin | 2010-05-02 19:25:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| awesome level, 5 stars! check out my newest level Little Big Dinner, its the highest rated level at the moment!! give feedback on it in its thread please | 2010-05-02 22:41:00 Author: Stunkel Posts: 120 |
| awesome level, 5 stars! check out my newest level Little Big Dinner, its the highest rated level at the moment!! give feedback on it in its thread please I would point out the following from the F4F Guidelines (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=7962-Feedback-For-Feedback): Feedback should be constructive. Creators are looking to improve their skills, so leave feedback that will help them grow as a Creator. This means being thorough - leaving one or two sentences won't cut it in most cases. While I appreciated that you supposedly enjoyed my level; "awesome level, 5 stars!" isn't much in the way of feedback. I'd greatly appreciated more general and specific comments about it, in order to improve it and/or future levels. Nonetheless, I'll take a look at your F4F level. -- Nanluin | 2010-05-03 00:58:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I tried playing this a couple times. One time was in 3 in the morning, and I didn't think it would be very fair to give you tired, cranky feedback. Then one time I played it and the bungie thing broke (though I'm sure this was just a freak thing because I messed around on it ), but I finally finished it today and I thought it was pretty cool. One thing that this level did better than a lot of levels I've played is everything felt alive. You have a lot of characters throughout the thing, and sure, they might just say one thing, or some may even say nothing, but it does feel a lot like a living, breathing camp. This reminded me a lot of Psychonauts, what with it being a camp that would definitely kill the average kid within the first 10 minutes. I liked the humor. Visually, this was awesome. The lighting in the cave was a part that stood out to me, it was really good. Did you make the crocodiles? This level was really enjoyable. Something about the ending was very satisfying. Oh, and the mushroom puzzle was awesome. All-in-all, I loved it. Gave it 5 stars and a heart. I'll be looking out for more from you | 2010-05-03 03:14:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664 |
| I would point out the following from the F4F Guidelines (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=7962-Feedback-For-Feedback): While I appreciated that you supposedly enjoyed my level; "awesome level, 5 stars!" isn't much in the way of feedback. I'd greatly appreciated more general and specific comments about it, in order to improve it and/or future levels. Nonetheless, I'll take a look at your F4F level. -- Nanluin If you really feel that way, then don't bother, i feel bad  | 2010-05-03 03:53:00 Author: Stunkel Posts: 120 |
| If you really feel that way, then don't bother, i feel bad All he's saying is that if you're going to leave feedback, at least explain what you liked about the level. How can he even be sure you actually played the level if all you say is "I liked it 5 stars"? You don't need to feel bad about yourself, either, just say what you liked about it. | 2010-05-03 03:56:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664 |
| Thanks for coming back to it Awesomemans, I wasn't expecting it, after the bungee jump broke on you. That was enough, as it was the straw the broke the bungee's back, and forced to me find a REAL fix to the problem. Visually, this was awesome. The lighting in the cave was a part that stood out to me, it was really good. Did you make the crocodiles? Thanks. Yes, the crocodiles are my own creations -- pretty basic LBP animatronics, but still quite fun to figure out. If you want to see the LBPC logic used, they are in the level as prize bubbles. Ole' Jake and Molly began life in the level as simple Story Mode crocs (from The Burning Forest) -- which BTW are a pain in the neck to tune such that they don't break frequently -- but I just couldn't bring myself to use them that way. Then I decided that if I wanted crocodiles in the level, I would have to do my own, and 1-up the ones in Story Mode in the process. The result was satisfying. -- Nanluin | 2010-05-03 04:18:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| The Winner of the 8th LBR Trophy Competition! (http://www.littlebigreviewers.com/?p=746) was announced late last night and Sack Scout Camp (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=25687-Sack-Scout-Camp) made it to the '2nd place' group below the winner (Ship Wreck'd by Pacjonno). As someone new to LBP and LBPC, and with my first published level, I was pleased with that showing. There are several areas of LBP level creation that I want to develop further skills in (appropriate 3D layer glitch use, water and waterfall simulation, more 'organic' but Thermo efficient landscape and plant representation, and so on), and the feedback received from this experience has helped greatly in showing me exactly where I stand with regard to the current "state of the art." Thanks for the reviews and comments received this far! -- Nanluin | 2010-05-03 16:40:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Your level is very good, I liked the adventure that is on the road, have a great time in addition to experiential encounter every surprise you that really keeps you on the thread of the story, one of the things that pleased me most were the crocodiles since these attract much the atenci?n us because we amused each time you attack them you were trying to pass, the airplane enrredaderas and where you jump and fungi that really made us think about my wife and me, although we took some time loved it, you have a job very well done the story has a theme that entertains you. The details are very LBP has made us to have competition between them for holding the bubbles I've also posted some pictures at your level. F4F: please check my level I hope your comment https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=26126-Enchanted-adventure | 2010-05-03 16:47:00 Author: psyntens  Posts: 562 |
| Thank you, Psyntens; Here are the issues that I currently see with this level, and my plans for them: (1) The green-gas waterfalls/waterways in the opening Swamp section look terrible compared to the rest of the level, and the diagonal overlap between the Swamp section and the Mill Pond is unrealistic and distracting, visually. Solution: I planned out during my morning commute today how to potentially overhaul this section, open up the space and improve it visually, while at the same time freeing up some Thermometer space (who can beat that deal!). At the time I produced the Swamp section (early on my creator 'training&apos , I didn't understand how Sackboy falls between layers, and felt like I needed a definitive three-layer barrier underneath the path leading up to the Hang Glider. If I understand the way it works correctly, a falling Sackboy will be 'sucked' onto (land on) the first thick object encountered in the landscape, regardless of layer. So a three-layer thick barrier is really not necessary -- just some clever placement of single-layer fatal landscape, if you want him to die upon falling.(2) The Turtle Pool waterfalls continue to need work. Solution: By freeing up some Thermometer space with (1) above, I should be able to increase the amount of water droplets (paintballs) falling down from above and play around with some other potential ideas for making those waterfalls look better; in particular, experimenting with some potential lighting tricks. (3) Too many of the platforming problems in the level require 'tricks' or practice in order to master, making the level frustrating to play. This problem occurred inadvertently because my two testers (my 9 and 12 year old boys) are apparently very good gamers, such that it was a challenge to set up anything that was a challenge to *them*. It didn't take them long to figure out the 'trick' to any section I set up, so I figured that would be the 'norm' for the rest of the community. The general LBP community (not the LBPC community, I would add), however, seems to not want to have to work at or figure out or practice anything, even if there is an Inf. Life checkpoint there -- they die a few times on some tricky bit, and "Next!" you. Solution: With some more Thermometer room, and taking my queue from Luos_Desruc and TheAdipose (their "Hint Butterflies"), I plan to install some "Hint" signposts along the path, which if you grab them, will give you a clue regarding each tricky section as you encounter it. Perhaps the triangular, yellow "Warning!" sign sticker, stuck on a post in the front thin layer. Making it grabbable is the fun part -- experimentation required (perhaps I need to learn the theck/thack trick). The other option is to just put a normal magic mouth on it, but not everyone wants to be told the 'trick', they want to suss it out on their own, so I'd rather avoid doing that. Those are the three main weaknesses as I currently see them. If any of you see the weaknesses differently, PLEASE let me know --> hammer me! critique me! I know that some folks consider the lack of use of the 3D layer glitch as a weakness, as well as the use of a Story Mode background/background sound effects -- yep, those elephants are bit distracting in this case, but the shaded jungle lighting, sounds, tree trunks and green leaves were exactly what I was after, so for this level, I went with it. But beyond that? Soundtrack? Sound effects? Lighting? Visuals/Decorations/Plant and Landscape? Story? Platforming and Puzzle? Level Climax? Beyond my two boys, I don't have any other source of constructive feedback except you guys, right here. Thanks! -- Nanluin | 2010-05-04 15:57:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Some major revisions / fixes enacted last night: Here are the issues that I currently see with this level, and my plans for them: (1) The green-gas waterfalls/waterways in the opening Swamp section look terrible compared to the rest of the level, and the diagonal overlap between the Swamp section and the Mill Pond is unrealistic and distracting, visually. The stream-lining overhaul of the Swamp section went smoothly (I suppose now I should just call it the Gator Pond), and as expected freed up some Thermometer too. This section is much cleaner and simpler looking now, but I don't think many folks understood what I was trying to represent with the former complexity, anyway. I also figured out how to make Invisible Gas and employed it as a barrier between the Hang Gliding tower and the Mill Pond below, so that people don't miss the "exciting ride" and its "dramatic conclusion" by falling. (2) The Turtle Pool waterfalls continue to need work. Increased the falling water-droplet (paint-droplet) rate, which improves the look and feel of this section. I will do some more experimenting here in the next day or so. (3) Too many of the platforming problems in the level require 'tricks' or practice in order to master, making the level frustrating to play. This problem occurred inadvertently because my two testers (my 9 and 12 year old boys) are apparently very good gamers, such that it was a challenge to set up anything that was a challenge to *them*. It didn't take them long to figure out the 'trick' to any section I set up, so I figured that would be the 'norm' for the rest of the community. The general LBP community (not the LBPC community, I would add), however, seems to not want to have to work at or figure out or practice anything, even if there is an Inf. Life checkpoint there -- they die a few times on some tricky bit, and "Next!" you. Thanks to the discussion going on this thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=26293-Theck-and-Thack), I was able make a Theck, grabbable piece of polystyrene, which in turn led to the creation of a nice-looking *optional* Hint Sign. These have been stationed throughout the level, and (for the most part) look like additional dressing/decoration rather than out-of-place eye sores. If a player wants to ignore the hints, they can just go past them...nothing happens. If they want a hint as to how to handle a particular section, they stand under a sign, jump up and grab it, and a magic mouth gives them a clue (thank you, Luos and Adi, for the original concept). Other F4F feedback issues addressed: (1) Adjusted the chute down to the Cave Crocodile to further avoid "cheap deaths" upon hitting the water there. (2) Made the black gas covering the rocks on the sides and bottom of the Bungee Jump Gorge more visible -- it's primarily there because I hate the way spikes look (and the Thermo they take up). (3) Tuned the opening Gator Pond section to be easier, and less 'tricky' with regard to traversing from ball to ball. And finally: ....the random floating prize bubbles, for me, took away from the immersion of the level... The score bubbles for the level have been completely redesigned, and there is more of them -- up to a full Thermometer again. They also fit the theme much, MUCH better: putting something into the camp that all camps in the woods have....go check it out to see. Thanks all! -- Nanluin | 2010-05-05 16:27:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| This was an amazing level, everything just looked superb and it's clear you put a lot of effort into it. The platforming elements were all really well done as well, and I really enjoyed the tower section with the rotating platforms, along with the cave area with the moving alcoves. You utilized decorations very well too, and the overhanging leaf stickers and clusters of leaf decorations looked great. Good use of text too, it was nice and light-hearted, and didn't bombard you with speech bubbles. Additionally, the game length was also good, and the difficulty was right in the Goldilock zone, it wasn't too hard or too easy, just right. The mushroom puzzle was a little tricky, but it was really interesting. The only thing I would change about this level would maybe be to throw another check point between the area with the crows (the section with the rotating rocks), it was a little tough to get through that part. Otherwise everything in the level was perfect, gave it 5 stars and a heart. | 2010-05-06 08:48:00 Author: roflwaffle  Posts: 69 |
| This was an amazing level, everything just looked superb and it's clear you put a lot of effort into it.....gave it 5 stars and a heart. Thank you! I've had an awful lot of fun perfecting it. The platforming elements were all really well done as well, and I really enjoyed the tower section with the rotating platforms, along with the cave area with the moving alcoves..... Additionally, the game length was also good, and the difficulty was right in the Goldilock zone, it wasn't too hard or too easy, just right. Thank you -- I need to hear that from the serious platformers out there. My current "Frustrating" and "Tricky" tags, along with the relatively low completion to play ratio (about 15%) indicate to me that the average LBP'er finds it to be too difficult. Hopefully, the addition of the new *optional* Hint Signs will help the marginally determined folks along better. What did you think of those? Eye-sores or helpful background dressing? You utilized decorations very well too, and the overhanging leaf stickers and clusters of leaf decorations looked great. Those are a direct idea snach from Luos_Desruc and TheAdipose's In Pursuit of the Meddling Magpie (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=21134-In-Pursuit-of-the-Meddling-Magpie-%28online-create-entry%29-**SPOTLIGHTED**) level and associated video tutorial series (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=21136-How-to-make-good-scenery-tutorial-videos-forest-and-logic!&highlight=magpie+tutorial) on creating good forest scenery. I learned from the some of the best. Good use of text too, it was nice and light-hearted, and didn't bombard you with speech bubbles. I need to hear that also -- thanks. I was worried that the text was overdone somewhat, and still don't like the lengthy lecture that the "professor" type scoutmaster in the Toadstool Grotto gives -- but 6/7 of those speech bubbles are necessary information for solving the puzzle. The only thing I would change about this level would maybe be to throw another check point between the area with the crows (the section with the rotating rocks), it was a little tough to get through that part. Aye --> this is my "chase scene" equivalent of a "final boss fight." You have to keep moving and not be afraid to jump backwards onto the rolling-rocks again whilst waiting for the sliding platform to come back to pick you up: if you stand still for very long, the birds will mob you (which is what folks tend to do...they're used to just standing there waiting for the platform ahead to get into position for them). The entire key to that chase scene is to keep moving at all times, either forward or backward, with the exception of the little "shelter" over the mid-point checkpoint, where you can stand still for a moment (and watch the birds ping on the shelter overhead). How about the "bug collecting" score bubbles? Too cute? or an appropriate side-quest for the level? [those are a new addition] Thanks again for looking it over! -- Nanluin | 2010-05-06 16:01:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| I appreciate that you decided to put the in-game level name and your name off to the left, where players won't necessarily see it. I've never really understood why creators feel the need to waste 20 seconds of your play time forcing you to see what the level's name is again. Yours is entirely optional, and seems almost like an easter egg when you find it. Props for the bug points as well. Really like the look for your wooden platforms on the lake. They totally seem like something you'd see in a video game scout camp. Getting vaguely psychonauts-ish vibes from them. Hang gliding... kind of random, but a fun way to cover a big stretch of level. In the water with the electric eels, why is there such an in-depth explanation of what the players need to do? The skull is the only real interactable object in that section, and there's no other way out. Seems kind of distracting. Razor fish.. awesome. The bird houses... Seem out of place compared to the rest of the level. Visually, the whole section looks much more cartoonish than anything else, and in terms of gameplay, it gets kind of repetitive. The cave section... while visually pretty cool, really slows down the gameplay. The turtle section leaves you waiting, and then players are left waiting at the moving cave section. The moving cave section is one of the best looking sections in this level, but I found myself really relieved when that was over. I've gotta wonder why you chose to have 3 separate "zip-line" sections as opposed to one continuous. Even knowing what to do in terms of re-grabbing each time, it felt really unnatural to do that. Seems like one would work just the same. The birds make more sense now that I've finished. Really epic encounter at the end there. Completely different vibe from the rest of the level, but it added a nice climax to everything. A few more things... Visually, the camp portions nail what I expect most people would imagine a LBP camp would look like. Nice work with the structure detail on all of the platforms, tents, and trees. The layout early on is great. Before the cave, everything feels really organic... as opposed to a camp themed platformer or a purely visual level. I appreciate the in-game justification for collecting points. I never see that in any level - it's just assumed that players are compelled to collect. Bug collecting makes perfect sense in your level, and as I said before, the bugs look great. Really cool stuff dude. Can't wait to see what you've got coming next. | 2010-05-07 19:41:00 Author: mr Radical 5601  Posts: 515 |
| Thanks for the review, Mr. Radical. the in-depth look is much appreciated. Really like the look for your wooden platforms on the lake. They totally seem like something you'd see in a video game scout camp. Getting vaguely psychonauts-ish vibes from them. That's twice now someone has made the comparison to Psychonauts, which I've never seen or played. Time to do a search when I get home tonight. Hang gliding... kind of random, but a fun way to cover a big stretch of level. You're right -- it began as a fun way to get from Point A to Point B. However, I tried to turn it into a foreshadowing event -- you encounter your first Blackbird there. I had Alfred Hitchcock's The Birds in mind, where at first the birds are all innocent and in the background, but then slowly ramp up the intensity of your encounters with them. In the water with the electric eels, why is there such an in-depth explanation of what the players need to do? The skull is the only real interactable object in that section, and there's no other way out. Seems kind of distracting. The Hint Signs with the (!) on them are entirely optional, for those players who need a little extra help along the way. I had a few comments / complaints about that cluster of eels, for example: --I played the game two times actually. The first time I died to those electric eels about five times, I got frustrated, so I decided to try again later. The second time went a lot more smoothly. I was able to get the skull and put it into the crate without dying once. My difficulty with the first attempt might have been me just trying to rush past it and getting more annoyed and each failed attempt. That said, that particular Hint Sign has a very odd placement, I'll admit (stuck in the sand-bar there), and looks a little out of place. I also don't know how well I'd do myself on resisting the urge to see what they say as I went by them.... Razor fish.. awesome. Those were fun to implement, and right out of what...the original Mario for the first Nintendo? I'm surprised more water-using levels haven't included jumping fish as a hazard. The bird houses... Seem out of place compared to the rest of the level. Visually, the whole section looks much more cartoonish than anything else, and in terms of gameplay, it gets kind of repetitive. Yep -- I broke the "rule of three" with those (there are four) because three just didn't look right -- the tower is too tall -- and it made the ride up on the bungee too easy. However, I knew that by adding a fourth one, it would feel repetitive on the way back down. I'll look at the materials and stickering on those bird-houses, and try to reduce the "cartoon" feel and make them fit the rest of the theme a little better. The cave section... while visually pretty cool, really slows down the gameplay. The turtle section leaves you waiting, and then players are left waiting at the moving cave section. The moving cave section is one of the best looking sections in this level, but I found myself really relieved when that was over. Game-play pace is something I'm working on getting better at, so I'll keep the above in mind. My wife said the same thing about the tower hoists going up: they're a little slow -- although speeding them up made them too difficult to jump to and ride up. I had a lot of fun sound-scaping the "unstable" portion of the cave (rockfalls and moving fault-lines), struggled with it visually, and considered putting a slightly shaking camera there too -- but figured what I had was enough. Your character is *supposed* to feel "relieved" when they get back to the normal path again...but I don't think that's what you meant above, eh? Too much standing and waiting on platforms for your taste.I've gotta wonder why you chose to have 3 separate "zip-line" sections as opposed to one continuous. Even knowing what to do in terms of re-grabbing each time, it felt really unnatural to do that. Seems like one would work just the same. (a) I had more vertical distance to cover than horizontal, so three lines cross-traversing the little "box canyon" there worked, (b) having only one would be just another "hang on" glider ride (done that already), and (c) an elevator or hanging-ball ride down had already been done in the level. I suppose I could have made that a short rock-climbing, rock-jumping platform run down instead, but I tried something different -- albeit, somewhat "unnatural" (no one would actually do that). Your comment actually says a lot about how the *rest* of the level does look natural if this part stood out to you. The birds make more sense now that I've finished. Really epic encounter at the end there. Completely different vibe from the rest of the level, but it added a nice climax to everything. Thanks, that section's been tuned to death so a compliment is much appreciated. The music change I put in there made a *huge* difference also --> now the player says "Ah! An epic finish / climax to the level" rather than "WTF, mate, these birds are clobbering me!" A few more things... Visually, the camp portions nail what I expect most people would imagine a LBP camp would look like. Nice work with the structure detail on all of the platforms, tents, and trees. The layout early on is great. Before the cave, everything feels really organic... Thanks -- I've learned some lessons about planning out and executing a large cave design: primarily to *begin* with an organic, asymmetrical layout rather than intending to "carve out" the natural layout later on. The corner-editor-failure-bug (from having overly complicated shapes overlaid with other overly complicated shapes) got most of the architecture of that section, making it hard to modify afterward. I appreciate the in-game justification for collecting points. I never see that in any level - it's just assumed that players are compelled to collect. Bug collecting makes perfect sense in your level, and as I said before, the bugs look great. Thanks -- the bugs are a new addition/change, based upon a comment by Zynax555 a couple of weeks ago in which she mentioned that my randomly placed score bubbles took away from the theme and immersion of the level. I had to free up some Thermo space to implement the idea, and I'm glad it worked for you. I was afraid they would be just TOO cute or something. -- Nanluin | 2010-05-07 20:38:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| I played, I liked, I played again, I hearted Bad: -Backround: I think it shouldn't be temples backround. If I may suggest you should use caves backround from monesters kit (of course if you have it) Good: +Fun as a barrel of monkeys +Visuals were simple but I liked 'em +Actionfull gameplay full of fun and surprises Critic: :star::star::star::star::star: fun tag and <3. Keep up good work. Could you play my level The Cellar for feedback? | 2010-05-09 07:59:00 Author: FreeAim  Posts: 2462 |
| Greetings, FreeAim; Bad: -Backround: I think it shouldn't be temples backround. If I may suggest you should use caves background from monesters kit (of course if you have it) I tried out every available background with a "nature" or "outdoors" theme, including the cavern from the Monsters Pack, and "The Temples" had the best fit with regard to a shady forest/jungle with dark trees and green vines and leaves, along with decent background sounds. The disadvantage of that background is those blasted elephants, which stand out like...well...elephants in the room. What we need is a few more stock background choices, including an "old-growth forest" or "rain forest" background -- that's what I really wanted for this level. I'm in the process of teaching myself how to work with the 3D Layer Glitch, including the use of TheAdipose's very useful augment to the 'old' standard tools. So in future I can either add to the pre-packaged backgrounds or create my own background when needed. Thanks for the kind review. I'll return the favor! -- Nanluin | 2010-05-10 01:42:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Hey Nanluin. First off, sorry for the big delay in getting this F4F back to you from my level The Castle of the Corrupt King, I haven't checked that thread in ages lol due to it's age. Regardless, here's your F4F I liked this level a lot! There were a ton of cool little gameplay elements that I haven't seen before. The crocodiles, for example, were really well done and quite scary the flying fish with the spikes attached and the hang glider were also really neat elements in this level. The cranes were awesome, but if you fell from up high it took a while to get back up. maybe speed them up a bit?My favorite part was probably the bungie section, it made for an awesome gameplay element My least favorite section was the part with the mushrooms. the section took much too long, and although it was an interesting idea I found it frustrating more than fun. Maybe make it so that 1 shot raises / lowers the mushrooms? It would have the same effect but take much less time, and be more forgiving if you made a mistake.Overall this level was a lot of fun, and i really liked your innovative gameplay. It was one dangerous scout camp though, that's for sure great work, 5 stars | 2010-05-12 19:18:00 Author: Duffluc  Posts: 402 |
| I liked this level a lot!....Overall this level was a lot of fun, and i really liked your innovative gameplay. It was one dangerous scout camp though, that's for sure great work, 5 stars Thanks, Duffluc! I'm glad you enjoyed it. The cranes were awesome, but if you fell from up high it took a while to get back up. maybe speed them up a bit? I will see what speeding them up *slightly* will do. Speed them up too much and they swing too wildly with you to stay on board easily (you have a greater chance of falling). My favorite part was probably the bungie section, it made for an awesome gameplay element My least favorite section was the part with the mushrooms. the section took much too long, and although it was an interesting idea I found it frustrating more than fun. Maybe make it so that 1 shot raises / lowers the mushrooms? It would have the same effect but take much less time, and be more forgiving if you made a mistake.Actually, the current arrangement (three shots per growth/shrink increment) was intended to be rather forgiving of extra "water" (paint) balls flying about: if you accidentally hit a sensor, it didn't change your toadstool (mushroom) arrangement -- you have a buffer of two accidental shots on each one. However, I think it would be OK to reduce that buffer by one shot, such that it only takes two blasts from the "water gun" to cause growth/shrinkage. That way you still have a buffer there, but it takes less time to raise and lower the toadstools. When I get in there to test it, I can rapid-fire the shot bursts pretty effectively, such that it doesn't slow me down at all. That's why it's *very* helpful to hear from someone new to the puzzle / level in general. Thanks again for looking it over! -- Nanluin | 2010-05-12 20:17:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
| Howdy, finally back in town and catching up on F4F's. I would be lying if I said I enjoyed the level completely - although, it isn't all bad by a long shot. For your first level - it is nothing short of amazing. The level design was great - the creatures were well done and together nicely. Liked the crocs especially. The puzzle elements were nicely done. A definitive 4 stars from me. The cranes were nicely made and I liked the scouts at the end. The level was great and all fit together nicely (story, characters, puzzles, etc.) Areas of improvement - that bungie was a hassle. The winch sometimes didn't come down, sometimes it got stuck in the wood (I had to play this a few times, with different people to finally get it to work right so I could move on). It quickly made the level frustrating. I read some earlier reviews - I didn't know the birds were supposed to be bad at the end - they never killed me - I thought it was a build up to a BIG bird whose eggs I killed or something - I thought I was in for a boss battle, but I just jumped across the rocks and was good to go. It wasn't bad, but based on how well made the earlier parts of the level was, I thought something bigger was coming - although, I love the scoreboard with the mic. The mushroom puzzle was well done and had a great design to it - but somehow - it took forever. I didn't read the hints, and had no idea there was a platform on the right for easy access to the top (put lights on those things so they stand out). Took us a bit to figure out - the problem with the puzzle is that the watergun has trouble firing when you're standing on the edge - so you have to get "real" close and sometimes fall off, and have to shoot at the mushrooms. And if you drop the battery - you have to lower and raise everything all over again - my friend was getting REALLY annoyed. Again, the concept is easy - but for some reason, it was a real hassle to pull off. But I really put the blame on how the gun works more than the design of the puzzle. The cranes were great - and you mentioned being afraid of heights - On some parts, I would change the camera angles from a bird's eye view or something - nothing wrong with it - but you should show how high up we are going once in a while. So, overall, great level - the ending could have been "bigger" but was not bad. Some frustrating parts (bungie and mushrooms) - but overall, very enjoyable. <3 | 2010-05-22 23:57:00 Author: CYMBOL  Posts: 1230 |
| Thanks for the review, Cymbol. I am finding that the level seems to fall victim to variable play styles more so than most -- some find it fun and some find it rather frustrating. I do know that the level is *very* single-player oriented, such that multiple players tend to cause unforeseen problems (a lesson learned for my next creation). that bungie was a hassle. The winch sometimes didn't come down, sometimes it got stuck in the wood (I had to play this a few times, with different people to finally get it to work right so I could move on). It quickly made the level frustrating. I find this comment highly puzzling, and I think it speaks to the high degree of variability (player free movement) built into the "bungee jump" element. I've done it hundreds of times, watched my boys (and their friends) do that section dozens of times, with very few problems observed --> and those quickly solved by just re-doing the jump (which completely replaces the jump winch and resets the retrieval winch). Still, I hear you: the next time I do something like this, I'll use RTM's demitter trick on ALL of it, such that if someone respawns at the checkpoint, the *entire puzzle/platform* is reset (right now, only part of it is). Lesson learned. I read some earlier reviews - I didn't know the birds were supposed to be bad at the end - they never killed me - I thought it was a build up to a BIG bird whose eggs I killed or something - I thought I was in for a boss battle, but I just jumped across the rocks and was good to go. It wasn't bad, but based on how well made the earlier parts of the level was, I thought something bigger was coming - although, I love the scoreboard with the mic. The "proper" level of difficultly to include here has been highly elusive: some find it hard, some find it easy, and I've had to try to find the mid-point between the two. Again, it's a matter of play-style and expected challenge level. Personally, I find the current tuning of the mobbing blackbirds to be a bit too easy as well, but I still get complaints that it's too difficult, so I figure it's set just about where it needs to be for most players. The mushroom puzzle was well done and had a great design to it - but somehow - it took forever. I didn't read the hints, and had no idea there was a platform on the right for easy access to the top (put lights on those things so they stand out). Took us a bit to figure out - the problem with the puzzle is that the watergun has trouble firing when you're standing on the edge - so you have to get "real" close and sometimes fall off, and have to shoot at the mushrooms. And if you drop the battery - you have to lower and raise everything all over again - my friend was getting REALLY annoyed. Again, the concept is easy - but for some reason, it was a real hassle to pull off. But I really put the blame on how the gun works more than the design of the puzzle. Here, I think play-style *really* got in the way, and perhaps not reading the instructions provided by the NPC there. One of the first things he tells you is that the small, white toadstools "grow enthusiastically when you stand on them": that is, they're express elevators to the two upper platforms (one left and one right), and you can hop off on the way up to easily land on the ledges leading to the middle platform. I figured one of the first things a player would do is to ride each of them up to their respective platforms and scope out the puzzle, planning their moves from there. You can use those two little "elevator" toadstools to navigate the entire puzzle easily --> the bigger, slower toadstools need only be positioned for moving the battery around. The *only* toadstool that you should ever have to re-adjust, if you drop the battery, is the large red one with the notch in it's top (made to hold the battery) -- this one is used to raise the battery from the middle platform to the upper left platform -- all the others can be left where you put them (as you traverse them with a new battery). BTW, those "elevator" toadstools *are* lighted, the same as their bigger cousins, so I'm not sure how you missed them. Also, the bigger toadstools that you raise and lower with the "water gun" are *much* easier to operate when standing on the ground: firing straight up at their tops to raise them, or firing down at their base (at an angle from the side) to lower them. Alternatively, my boys like to "jump-shoot" them while standing on them (jump straight up and shoot straight down while in the air), but this is rather inefficient, and only necessary if you want the score bubbles in the top-center of the puzzle. This may be a case of where what seemed to me to be the most likely approach that a player would take to the problem, wasn't -- it was *my* most likely approach. Also, I should have designed that portion such that you talk to the NPC first, and *then* go get a "water gun" (paintinator). Picking up the paintinator first tends to put people into "let's blast things and see what happens!" mode, such that they miss the carefully worded instructions that follow. I've taken this level off the F4F listing, and don't intend to make any further changes to it. I will, however, take the lessons learned and apply them to future constructs. Many thanks, -- Nanluin | 2010-05-24 15:57:00 Author: Nanluin Posts: 98 |
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