Archive: 8 posts

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I am currently creating complex logic creations for my (hopefully) sucessful logic level. I have posted one item to see if players would like it... but I am always unnoticed by community players... I have the 74LS47N MSI IC part fully working in this level. Next I am building LBP verson of 74LS74's AKA D Flip flops. I have a whole list of these parts going to be made, but I want feedback from LBPC: 1.) does this logic level sound intresting enough to be finished, and 2.) any sugesstions for SSI, or MSI parts? (or anything complex)

2010-04-12 22:53:00 Author: m500games Posts: 23

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I would suggest checking out the official lbpc logic pack, it would surely help in creating and understanding logic better. EDIT-Must admit i didnt read the post XD

2010-04-12 23:04:00 Author: Jrange378 Posts: 573

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@jrange: I'd guess this guy is pretty well versed in logic already, if he's considering this project It's interesting as a technical challenge, but in honesty, such things are rarely useful in a real sense, so whether or not they will be successful is another matter. I don't wish to discourage you, but the practicality of a BCD->7seg converter (that's what I got for a search for the 74LS47N) in a general sense in LBP is likely to be quite an issue. As for the D-Type flipflop, you can simulate the behaviour of a D-Type using a rewiring of the emitter toggle from the logic pack advanced level. If you attempt to recreate such a thing using analogies with real-world electronics then you will find yourself coming up with very inefficient solutions, which may well be a recurring theme you will find in your attempts to recreate existing ICs directly. As I said though, please don't take this as an attempt to discourage you, but I would question how much recognition you will get with the community from this. Especially if you talk to them about 74LS47N MSI ICs etc Hibbsis calculator got hardly any recognition in the main community, and that was an incredible logic creation. Anyways, I'll try to remember to check this out tomorrow, when I go on

2010-04-12 23:10:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Yea, I think I saw that Calculator level, But at first the Binary to decimal on a Seven segment display might sound useless, But Binary logic uses a base 2 system, and the standard number system (0-9) is a base 10 system. knowing this, I can perform adding, subtracting, and multiplying solving, saving, and counting much more efficent than any other way. the problem is that everything will have a Binary solution, such as 1101 (witch is 13 in decimal). To solve this I made the 7447 to convert this knot-well-known system to an understandable number or letter. I do understand your point Rtm223 but the 74LS47, for example, can be used for minigames and count down as a timer, or up as a point system. and the D flipflops are chained together, along with a player input to act as a clock and counting system. the logic pack is the basics of what I'm doing (SSI-small scale intragration, such as the popular AND, and OR gates. The MSI, or medium scale intragrated is just the ANDs and ORs put together in a spectific combonation to turn a binary input to an output that is understood by a seven segment display. (just lights). Sorry that this is a bit long. I tried to simplift this as much as I can.

2010-04-13 00:40:00 Author: m500games Posts: 23

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Sorry if I'm not totally following... is the practical application as use in counting devices (and by extension clocks/timers), and something else? Binary calculations? Binary operations have been around for a while, but are surely nowhere near optimized. I always struggle with the conversion from binary back to base-10. As for the clocks, timers, counters... these may not be as practical. Rtm has fussed with these in the past, and emitters are highly useful. I'm not sure there is a conceivable connection between emitters and the logic stuffs you are talking about. So, you may yet find a way to do it (or already have the idea grinding about in your head), but you might not be able to upstage the techniques that already exist somewhere. But hell, I'm just a math guy, what do I know? Prove me wrong! I guess my question is... are you doing these as a challenge and thought exercise, just a fun experiment, or are you devising ways to create useful logic in levels?

2010-04-13 01:21:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I do understand your point Rtm223 but the 74LS47, for example, can be used for minigames and count down as a timer, or up as a point system. I'm not entirely sure you do My point is that for most applications, counting in binary, then converting that value to something displayable on a 7segment is incredibly inefficient, contrary to what you claim, especially if: The MSI, or medium scale intragrated is just the ANDs and ORs put together in a spectific combonation Relying too heavilly on direct analogies with electronics will generally mean that you make inefficient designs in LBP. I found myself doing very much the same thing a while back and as I started to build LBP logic from LBP first principles, rather than electronics principles, I found that there are a hell of a lot more options available in LBP. The D flip flop is a perfect example. If you build that using a traditional design from AND and OR gates then you are going to have a complete mess in LBP. A simple key emitter on a piston, will carry out exactly the same function for a fraction of the resourses. As comphermc said, I've played around quite a bit with counters and timers and by integrating the counting logic directly into the display logic, you can vastly improve both your efficiency and the latency of the system. If you take a look at the examples in my clock/timers level (the name of it escapes me right now), you will see what I'm getting at. These are all incrementers / decrementers built into 7-seg (or comparable) displays and slight modifications on those designs would be sutable for 95% of the "real" LBP applications that might be required. Yes, if you wish to make a fully functional calcualtor, then doing your calculations in binary and converting back is going to be pretty efficient. But I can think of very few times when a more application-specific design is not far more appropriate.

2010-04-13 12:16:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Yes, it may be true that emitters, and other things do make some things more simple then digital eletronics, but I think using both LBP parts and logic from IC chips can both be used, as for my D-FF, it is just a basic toggle switch, but I have made a preset, and clear feature to it. I olny build what is nessary to be made, yes LBP does have a timer, such as a hydraulic that is very slow, or an emiter that spawns every second.. There are stuff that may be easier to do in binary is stuff like having a large number score system, such as having a arcade system that displays a number in the top corner, and with binary, every Flip flop/toggle switch you add doubles the number, so 8 of these can count to 256. and adding one more can double this. and second, this is olny counting, and adding. binary can be used for multiplexors and de-multiplexors ( few input to many outputs. and many inputs to fewer outputs.) so, I think having a higher level of logic can help the LBP community acheve much more in binary logic, then they could in normal logic. (if you want to, you can check out the 7447 level that I posted not too long ago, and see that making real IC chips can be more easier then people thought. I.E. the entire thing was made by olny 3 colors of keys, but can be brought to two colors.)

2010-04-13 18:31:00 Author: m500games Posts: 23

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...ok fine. I've check out some levels by you, and other players, and there is easier ways to make these things. alot easier. but hey, I'm still going to make some really cool IC logic, just to impress the community what can be acheved, and who knows, I might discover something cool in the process.

2010-04-13 20:16:00 Author: m500games Posts: 23

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