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Archive: 133 posts

I've been wanting to post a thread like this for a while, but I figured it would end up being negative. However, I get the feeling it's needed.

So, the topic of this thread is "Showing Consideration".

I watched as the "Gamefaqs" and "LittleBigWorkshop" deteriorated as people stopped showing consideration for one another. For the last year, LBPCentral has been the site where many of the most popular, talented, AND less experienced creators have been able to learn, share ideas, and get encouragement from other creators. This has been the MATURE site.

And for those of you who haven't been around much, I used to be the one who would wander around trying to help... I was on the Spotlight crew for a long time, and tried to build it into a fair list that represented the talented creators.

So.... what's changed?

In the last few months, I've seen bad sportsmanship associated with site contests (here and related to other site's contests), people calling each other names (I've been called a few things I won't mention lately...), relentless and unhelpful showcase posts, calling kids stupid, threads encourgaging retaliation against specific PSN's (which are probably just young kids messing around), attacking MM employees with no proof of wrongdoing, calling people retarded, attacking the publishing practices of decent members here (by their actual PSN names).....

The list goes on and on. Frankly, lately it has me in a bit of a bad mood when dealing with this site, which is a shame. I used to enjoy it quite a bit.

I even noticed recently my creator spotlight had been rated down to 1 star, which is obviously also a bit discouraging.

So, what's the answer? Any comments?

2010-04-10 18:22:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

Well, there IS a lot of advertising of lbpcentral over at gamefaqs. The site hasnt changed, just the people in it.

2010-04-10 18:28:00

Author:
Jrange378

Posts: 573

Oops... Got to change...
No this has not been seen negative by me. Thanks for posting this.

2010-04-10 18:34:00

Author:
JspOt

Posts: 3607

I believe with so much publicity in many sites, those mentioned above and others, many inconsiderate people have migrated over here to LBPCentral. This site has changed from these people and I really hope they acknowledge respect for others here and shape up. I would hate to see LBPCentral end up like sites like GameFAQs or LittleBigWorkshop.

2010-04-10 18:34:00

Author:
Night Angel

Posts: 1214

Would it be a good idea to have mods give inconsiderate/ disrespectful users posing restrictions and the like?

2010-04-10 18:37:00

Author:
Jrange378

Posts: 573

I don't sign to LBW, the only good thing is the news, but there are better sites with LBP news.

2010-04-10 18:39:00

Author:
JspOt

Posts: 3607

Without meaning to kick this off to a relatively pessimistic start, I can't help but wonder if part of the problem is the size of the community. Someone posted something the other day about "our close, tight-knit, community" (regarding LBPC), and I couldn't help but wonder if that was really the case any more. Is the concept of the whole of LBPC being all close and warm and fuzzy really just nostalgia? Maybe the site has grown beyond the point where it can really have that same community vibe that it used to?

ANd I'm not really convinced that it's just newer people migrating here that are causing problems. I keep on seeing new members gang-trolled by various members who have been here for months. Sure, it would be nice to think that it's just those new guys from the other forums that are messing things up, but I really don't think that's the case.

2010-04-10 18:43:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

Would it be a good idea to have mods give inconsiderate/ disrespectful users posing restrictions and the like?

Not sure.... the way I see it, this is definately a complex situation. It's difficult to have too much moderation and at the same have an open and useful site. But I definately think the issue comes down to the maturity of members and the consideration they show others.

I think one of the things everyone should keep in mind is that people come here for "fun". Personally, I'm not a kid. I'm an adult who has quite a bit of responsibility as a husband and a manager. And there's quite a few other members like that also. If it stops being fun.... we leave (which at this point, maybe many would consider this a good thing).

If I put a showcase thread up, and people post things like "Not good", "Frustrating", "I hate it".... how is this any better than simply getting feedback via my level comments? Feeling like you have the right to treat people anyway you want takes the "fun" away for others.

Maybe the site has grown beyond the point where it can really have that same community vibe that it used to?

I definately think this has a lot to do with it, but if you want to have a certain vibe to the community, no matter how many members you have, doesn't it then need more rules and controls?

Is the concept of the whole of LBPC being all close and warm and fuzzy really just nostalgia?

Not sure this is the case. Certainly, there were always a FEW troublemakers, but I was always surprised when trouble popped up a year ago. And if someone tried to cause trouble, or posted a thread that could potentially cause an issue they were smacked down pretty quick. I remember a thread that Kratos posted about a kid who was harrassing him - the thread was almost IMMEDIATELY closed.

And there were always quite a few helpful and encouraging threads.... it seems that a lot of them that pop up now are incredibly negative and not too helpful.

2010-04-10 18:44:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

oh, well, true that there's some little problems here and there sometimes,
but I think that globally, LBPC is still a great and "mature" site where members respect each other

I don't think those kind of problems can be avoided anyway, because there are more and more people (kind or unkind) joining here, so problems like those will happen not matter what you do, like in every sites and forums

Better deal with this in a smart and mature way, and focus on the positive sides I guess!

2010-04-10 18:45:00

Author:
dajdaj03

Posts: 1486

I definately think this has a lot to do with it, but if you want to have a certain vibe to the community, no matter how many members you have, doesn't it then need more rules and controls?

I think you answered that earlier:

Not sure.... the way I see it, this is definately a complex situation. It's difficult to have too much moderation and at the same have an open and useful site. But I definately think the issue comes down to the maturity of members and the consideration they show others.

It's tricky. You can't just force people to act a certain way. In smaller groups, things generally work better, no matter what the groups consist of. You need less rules in a small group because there is a general consensus on the unwritten rules of conduct and anyone not following those rules will quickly find themselves isolated. As the group increases, the unwritten rules become far less ubiquitous, but the people who don't follow them also become more common. So whereas an inconsiderate person a year ago would have found themselves slightly shunned, an inconsiderate person now will find themselves with alot of people backing them up.

The way around that is to increase the actual rules, the written an enforced ones. But that pushes you towards a very authoritarian position, which isn't very pleasant either. Certainly it's better than a free-for-all and might be the way forward, but it's a tricky one to actually get right.

2010-04-10 18:55:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

I've noticed it too. Morgana starting that one thread helped out a bit, but there seems to be some lingering bad feelings for some reason. Not sure the answer, but I wish everyone showed respect and consideration for one another before posting.

2010-04-10 19:02:00

Author:
jwwphotos

Posts: 11383

I am of the belief that you can leave your mark by leading by example. Regardless of how others act, treat everyone with respect in a caring manner. Even if they don't reciprocate, you can feel good knowing that you did the right thing.

We've all said things that we probably shouldn't. Make up for that by saying the right thing next time.

2010-04-10 19:03:00

Author:
comphermc

Posts: 5338

The main reason for this site's negativity is because the simple aspect here that we're missing: role models.

From personal experience, I learned many things here. No spamming, careful what you say, the kindness, etc.. So being new to the site a while back, I know what the main influence is. So literally, the people here represent the site. So, let me explain this subject a bit more.

From the day the Online Create Contest was made, it was all good and fresh. The newcomers learned the rules from the members here, and so on. But then, the Contest got corrupted with multi-accounts, thus making us fight and bicker. Now becuase of that, many newcomers took it upon themselves to fight and bicker. And now, with these threads like "Beware of MM Posers" and such, they release negativity at those threads, making them even more negative influences.

And now with the Community Spotlights. You think it's a harmless thread, but if someone complains one bit, we all have to do what? Bicker with them? No! We have to see this maturely, not as an insult or attack. On one of the spotlights, we had an arguement that lasted for 1-2 pages. It may seem little, but think about the site! The newcomers and guest see this stuff in the front page for God's sake!

With time rolling on, threads appeared from newcomers who were sadly brain-washed into thinking that we're a site that criticizes. So, they make these threads like "Stupid kids", and the actual kids here get offended. So what's their first reaction? Simple: the same reaction we had towards the contest! Now we have fights and spamming and all that garbage, and why? Because we failed to show responsibility towards our actions.

So the answer now? Admit our faulties and act more maturely. Even I admit I was acting carelessly around the time of the contest and Community Spotlights. But still, we need to think before we type, or else we're going to attract nothing but more negativity. If we act more maturely, then the newcomers will see our attitudes, thus turning them into more positive influences. This is a chain reaction in other words, so we have to be careful about not breaking any links.

Peace

2010-04-10 19:04:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

Good point, Cyber. I removed my thread warning about MM impersonators. It didn't do anything to promote a positive atmosphere.

Anyone want a flower?

*Extends hand with flower in it*

2010-04-10 19:16:00

Author:
comphermc

Posts: 5338

Echoes of a year ago? D:

... sorry, nostalgia here >_>

Anyway... yeah, it kinda is quite a bit different then usual I guess... I kinda feel a bit responsible, since I kinda set off Spooky leaving which seems to have caused a lot of this, but I hope I'm not the cause >_>

Eh, yeah. Anywho... well, there should be more common courtesy of course, everyone should be better... I believe I should take some heat since I've been mean myelf to some kids who posted some things that are, well, kid-like if you know what I mean.

Then of course I also was ticked off a couple times... like when I negged everyone who voted against me in Mafia. Yeah, you heard me, that was me. Come on, was it really that hard to figure out from me negging everyone who voted against me? Eh, kinda hid after that... /runs

Anyway, guess this isn't the confession thread. So yeah, basically everyone should act better towards each other is the main purpose here. Perhaps also more mods might help- throwing more mods at the problem always helps >_<- but yeah, I unno, maybe more people to enforce the rules? But still, the main problem is YOU. Yes, YOU. I'm talking to YOU. Ya COMMIE. ... sorry, not trying to get hostile, but, uh... /runs

2010-04-10 19:16:00

Author:
RockSauron

Posts: 10882

I think something that can be done is to encourage new members that show a good, friendly and helpful attitude. I don't shy from giving rep to new members for having a great attitude or being helpful, and I hope that encourages them to stick around and participate more in the community.

2010-04-10 19:18:00

Author:
Gilgamesh

Posts: 2536

Then of course I also was ticked off a couple times... like when I negged everyone who voted against me in Mafia. Yeah, you heard me, that was me. Come on, was it really that hard to figure out from me negging everyone who voted against me? Eh, kinda hid after that... /runs

Lol Rock, we all knew it was you!

We just didn't bother to complain about it. It's just rep.

2010-04-10 19:19:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

Good point, Cyber. I removed my thread warning about MM impersonators. It didn't do anything to promote a positive atmosphere.

Anyone want a flower?

*Extends hand with flower in it*

Oh, it's a daffodil.

I love daffodils.

2010-04-10 19:20:00

Author:
talbot-trembler

Posts: 1114

2010-04-10 19:20:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

2010-04-10 19:22:00

Author:
comphermc

Posts: 5338

Good point, Cyber. I removed my thread warning about MM impersonators. It didn't do anything to promote a positive atmosphere.

Anyone want a flower?

*Extends hand with flower in it*

I'll take that flower!

In fairness, there is only one mod who seems to be particularly active. I don't know if the others are merely lurking so that they are less visible, yet still involved. Now I don't wanna put pressure on CC on how he runs the site, and I certainly don't want to push anyone's names for it, but could we maybe do with a couple more active mods? Even if it's just to drop in a calming word here and there, early on in these threads?

Not really. With too many mods around, that'll leave us a bit overcrowded witht the blue names. Besides, mods don't help out a site get positivity, the members do. So adding more mods here is just another way of saying that we're too negative to be left alone by ourselves.

So, all we need to do is get this site back on its feet, we won't need new mods, and we'll be one big happy family again.

This is very true, but I'm not sure many new members are aware of the rep system. I'm wondering if bringing back site XP would do anything to help here. Sure, it's sort of a competition, but it's fun and friendly.

Not really. It might encourage those to be a bit more friendly, but then it'll also create spam from the newcomers. I think we should wait for this site to regain it's positivity before we leap back into that system.

2010-04-10 19:23:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

I am of the belief that you can leave your mark by leading by example. Regardless of how others act, treat everyone with respect in a caring manner. Even if they don't reciprocate, you can feel good knowing that you did the right thing.

I definately think this is true. And in the past, if I made light of a situation and tried to throw some humor in, it all seemed to work out. However, recently I think THAT has even backfired and people start assuming the worst motivations. Starting this thread, for me, is a way of having us all reflect on who we are a bit.

I think everyone here have really good points. If our threads are negative, and posting on people's level threads are not for their benefit but for us to take out a grudge, if we're not adding the enjoyment of the site - it all becomes a big mess.... just like cool levels.

2010-04-10 19:43:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

I definately think this is true. And in the past, if I made light of a situation and tried to throw some humor in, it all seemed to work out. However, recently I think THAT has even backfired and people start assuming the worst motivations. Starting this thread, for me, is a way of having us all reflect on who we are a bit.

I think everyone here have really good points. If our threads are negative, and posting on people's level threads are not for their benefit but for us to take out a grudge, if we're not adding the enjoyment of the site - it all becomes a big mess.... just like cool levels.

Well the Cools Levels are a different story. MM just wanted to shine some light on some new Creators. Sadly, it backfired, with the new Creators taking advantage of it and instead of actually creating a level, they post spam.

But yes, that's what I'm trying to say. No matter how bad the post was, we're not supposed to take in that negative feedback. We're supposed to treat it responsibly. If someone posted a negative thread, all we have to do is give a reason for a lock, not attack the poster.

As an alternative for posting something that you want to share, but you feel it's too negative, use the blog section. That way, people who don't want to read it won't have to, and people who do will. And as a bonus, it's more personal than public.

2010-04-10 19:49:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

So, what's the answer? Any comments?

At the end of the day, only the moderators have the power to do much about this. As for the rest of us, we can certainly express our disdain for what we perceive to be 'inappropriate' behaviour, but this tends to lead to lots of replies like "I [agree|disagree] with UserX, blah, blah", which tends to fill up the forums with even more worthless drivel than if we'd've just kept our mouths shut in the first place.

Perhaps the moderators are too lenient in allowing this sort of content to be posted without being challenged, after all the forum rule "3. Stay on topic and post only if you have something to contribute to the conversation" seems suitably vague enough to justify moderating anything which they believe warrants it.

Yes, this sounds like a dictatorship, but that's the only way it can work without more sophisticated forum software. Slashdot, for example, has a pretty effective, and democratic, peer-moderation system, making it trivial for its readers not to have to read such drivel. But it doesn't really matter as long as whoever's in charge of selecting moderators is careful to select the right people, i.e. those who they believe have good judgment.

I also believe there should be more moderators, bearing in mind that these people have lives outside of LBP (mostly

), they're not going to be able to catch everything that goes on here, nor should they be expected to.

As for the issue of 'criticism', I don't think it's fair to say that people shouldn't be allowed to express negative opinions of other people's creations, but if that's all a particular user ever seems to post, and isn't even offering anything constructive, then they're probably just trolling anyway, and should be dealt with appropriately.

2010-04-10 20:30:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

As for the issue of 'criticism', I don't think it's fair to say that people shouldn't be allowed to express negative opinions of other people's creations, but if that's all a particular user even seems to post, and isn't even offering anything constructive, then they're probably just trolling anyway, and should be dealt with appropriately.

I agree to a point, but so far I'm mostly in agreement with the idea of setting an example. There's definately a balance in having "rules" or just learning to be "considerate", and I think principle over law is generally the way to go.

So, having the right ATTITUDE is the most important thing. When I talk about posting negative opinions on someones creation, I'm more concerned with the APPROACH than the MESSAGE. So, instead of saying "Your level is ugly".... say something constructive like "The ____ area could use a few more decorations". Telling a creator their level is "ugly" or "stinks" will cause the creator to have less fun. Giving them some objective information to work with will make them appreciative, and will benefit the community.

I'm hoping if we all work together we can solve negativity issues without resorting to moderation.

2010-04-10 20:38:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

We all just need to be a bit more like Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaale

2010-04-10 20:48:00

Author:
Dunadrian

Posts: 57

I'm sorry if your talking about one of my posts. I feel guilty about it like when I take the last biscuit from my sister or something like that.

Anyway, as people have said it's all a case of respect. But sometimes people will get jealous or angry, and we might have a little bit of a squabble. I think it's impossible that everyone will get along forever, people are not like that. But honestly, I think this such a suberb, kind site (If you don't believe me check out gametrailers forums) where the majority are really helpful. Its hard to find a website like this now, and these are all little minor issues so you got to stop worrying.

Shame about the creator spotlight though, that must suck, but coming from my perspective at least you were fortunate as to get one, eh? Look at it that way.

2010-04-10 21:10:00

Author:
AgentBanana

Posts: 511

I'm sorry if your talking about one of my posts. I feel guilty about it like when I take the last biscuit from my sister or something like that.

I wasn't targetting anyone with this thread at all, promise.

Shame about the creator spotlight though, that must suck, but coming from my perspective at least you were fortunate as to get one, eh? Look at it that way.
I'm not terribly concerned with it - I have a pretty thick skin. I did notice since this thread the star rating went from 1 to 4... but that wasn't really a motivation for this thread. I get concerned when I see people getting more brazen and bold in posts, because many times left unchecked it could get out of control.

2010-04-10 21:25:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

Ive alway try to be nice to everyone, and more then happy to help if I can. I think alot get idea of being famous in they head and start thinking they're better then others. Well your not no one is! We are all the same anyone can create anything they can dream off.

Someone could pick up the game tomorrow and create somthing only they could dream up.

2010-04-10 21:33:00

Author:
jump_button

Posts: 1014

All I am saying is give peac.. I mean always look on the bright side of life. If you stop worrying and let things be, they have a tendency to fix themselves. Apart from my wallet though.

2010-04-10 21:35:00

Author:
AgentBanana

Posts: 511

I think a good way to do this is to encourage (or highlight?) the thread rating and thanks system. When I first came across the site, I hardly noticed either of them or knew how they work until I actually read all the little buttons on the bottom of each post. Since I became self-aware, there's a bit more incentive for me to thank helpful posts when I see them.

I haven't been on here long enough (maybe three weeks, now?) to see any long-term trends like others may, but as far as friendly, pleasant people go I think that this site is chock full of them.

The key is to maintain positive energy going forward and in the face of negativity you may see on the site. Don't be apologetic about wanting this place to be the best LBP community out there. And most of all, don't let a few bad apples or someone on a bad day define the general tone, tenor and reputation of the site. The community here is by far the most helpful, insightful, knowledgeable and respectful communities for LBP out there.

2010-04-10 21:54:00

Author:
schm0

Posts: 1239

A large problem I find on this website is, actually, the reputation system.

The way I see it, more newbies and experienced members lean towards those with higher reps and time spent on the boards. People like Morgana, comphermc and ConfusedCartman practically get thanked for each post they make. Is it for any particular reason? Perphaps, but I've seen many other people with 1 bars (and even red bars) make positive feedback and posts as good as they have. But are those people recognized? No. Not even the slightest.

Some new people post at a lightning-fast pace just so they can get recognized. I remember when hybrid-leader and iGotFancyPants first joined this site; both posted like there's no tomorrow! Hybrid literally posted 1 post per 10-20 seconds in the Forum Games section for about an hour straight once! I ought to know- I was posting right alongside him. iGotFancyPants? He also posted like crazy... in the General Boards as a whole. Now he has 4 bars and a spot in LBPC: The Game. I didn't even recognize who he was a few months ago. Now both are full-fledged members of LBPC.

Seeing people with negative reputation just makes my heart ache. It also makes me wonder how they got their rank so low and who negative-ranked them. I still remember Adam; he has possibly the lowest rank in LBPC history. What was it again? 3-4 red bars? Yeah, probably the most lowly looked-upon member on the site. But he was a good man. I saw that he didn't mean any harm, and he deeply regretted being a juerk before. But we never see him around anymore... and his rep never recovered.

I just feel as though many people on here just want to be recognized and such. So if anything, I suggest that we... *gulp* remove the reputation system. We all have a general idea of who's been around longer and such. Plus, it'll make the new members feel more comfortable when posting around. If any of you guys think otherwise, then go ahead, ask. I won't mind.

2010-04-10 21:55:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack

Posts: 5757

I really agree about being more considerate when posting. I've often wanted to post a strong opinion about certain threads or posts that were inappropriate, but have found myself afraid to, mostly because of potential retaliation. This may make me seem weak. However, I once befriended a kid who was attacked in a very innocent thread he posted. Sometimes there's a very thin line between defending someone and just adding to the madness of a thread gone wild.

2010-04-10 22:08:00

Author:
TheCountessZ

Posts: 537

Lol, we should name this the "Reflections Thread".

Honestly though, I agree with Aya when it comes to criticism, but I don't agree on the adding more mods idea. I mean, yes we need control here, but it's not needed for right now. We have enough mods for this site as of right now. Adding more to the pack will create more "Why did you lock it? I didn't think it was bad!" and etc.. Remember, the more mods there are for a little site, the more opinions the mods will have. Right now we have enough, but if the site grows, then yes we need more.

2010-04-10 22:08:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

I think alot get idea of being famous in they head and start thinking they're better then others.

And it goes the other way also... people get the idea just because someone is famous they can be more "blunt" with them.

2010-04-10 22:09:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

Stay tuned for more!

2010-04-10 22:16:00

Author:
comphermc

Posts: 5338

It easy to post a comment without thinking to much about how they may take that comment. Age got nothing to do with anything they're alot of 7+ that are much more mature then alot of 20+

2010-04-10 22:52:00

Author:
jump_button

Posts: 1014

Whoa, what happened to the previous posts? :eek:

2010-04-10 23:00:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

It easy to post a comment without thinking to much about how they may take that comment. Age got nothing to do with anything they're alot of 7+ that are much more mature then alot of 20+
Exactly. My son is only 8, but he's really respectful.

I while back I started a thread called "Fair Feedback" that encouraged people giving feedback to consider the creators feelings when giving feedback. To me, the biggest thing to remember is that LBP is a GAME. People create levels and get feedback for fun. Smacking people in the head with blunt feedback isn't fun for the creator.

Whoa, what happened to the previous posts?
I deleted it, since the author I was responding to deleted his so that my reply didn't make sense all of the sudden.

2010-04-10 23:01:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

i don't think moderation change will help. i think it's just the users. and there's no real way to help that, other than being good role models and discouraging foul play?

2010-04-10 23:03:00

Author:
monstahr

Posts: 1361

I haven't really been a part of this community long enough to get any sort of nostalgic feelings about way back when, but I too have noticed a vibe of negativity that rears its ugly head once in a while... Luckily, there's a heck of a lot more good on this site than bad. This place is still miles ahead of most other forums in terms of maturity, friendliness and general helpfulness, and although there are certain problematic areas I would say the community is doing quite well, as a whole.

But those problematic areas do need to be addressed, and I don't really know if more mods is the answer... it's not the mods who control what the community members say, it's the community members themselves. I've found that the mods we have now do a great job of ensuring problematic threads don't get out of control, you almost never see an out of control thread that hasn't had a mod try to put it back on track. But even if the number of mods was doubled, the community would still be too large for them to handle alone. If we want the community to be a happy, fun place to be 24 / 7 it's gonna fall to the community members. Everyone's gotta put their best foot forward. We can't just rely on the mods to show people how to be friendly and helpful, everyone needs to.

It's the job of the community members to ensure that problems don't start in the first place. It's the task of the moderators to fix said problems when they do occur. The negativity isn't stemming from mod's not fixing problems before it's too late, it's stemming from the problems occurring in the first place. And the only way to fix that is for everyone to think about what they're posting before they post it. And that's only gonna happen when the general community smartens up. This thread should help raise awareness about the issue, I think, so it's a good start.

2010-04-10 23:09:00

Author:
Duffluc

Posts: 402

I haven't really been a part of this community long enough to get any sort of nostalgic feelings about way back when, but I too have noticed a vibe of negativity that rears its ugly head once in a while... Luckily, there's a heck of a lot more good on this site than bad. This place is still miles ahead of most other forums in terms of maturity, friendliness and general helpfulness, and although there are certain problematic areas I would say the community is doing quite well, as a whole.

Exactly. This place does have more positivity than negativity, but we still need to keep an eye on the problem. If we let slip again, we can actually create a negative reaction among us, and then we'll have bans here and there.

Also, if we add more mods... yes, I'm bringing it back up. Anyhoo, if we add more mods, then I feel like the system will go corrupt, and we'll have some serious arguements coming up. If you feel like the mods represent the site, then might as well make everybody mods.

Oh, and the Xp and rep system needs work. I mean when someone gets negative rep'ed, they brag that someone did it and they even convince themselves into thinkng they know who. This usually results in the Negative Rep wars (or something like that). So I seriously think CC should have a system where he'll spot this tpe of act or at least mods who can find a post that actually threatens negative repping with no reason. The XP's just spamming a bunch, so I guess the only thing that should be done is just keeping an eye out for spammers.

Final note. Has anyone told CC about this thread? It'll help if he checks this out, being admin and all.

Peace

2010-04-10 23:46:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

I couldn't agree more that "respect" for an individual and their feelings is critical and of paramount importance not just for this site, but in life in general. Over the past 5 months my wife and I (most specifically my wife) have been on the receiving end of some truly appalling behavior at this site. I find that saddening, as we both love this site and what it stands for, as well as for what Mm has striven to accomplish with this very special game that promotes a community which enriches the lives of those who play it. In all honesty, we want nothing more than to be able to continue at this site in an atmosphere that rises above the turmoil and petty bickering that all too often gets out of control.

Something to keep in mind as we all post our thoughts in the forum threads, blogs and profile pages...most everyone here is a creator of sorts, an artist at heart. Artists pour their emotions, and in some cases their entire being into their creations, sacrificing sleep to achieve perfection, spending countless hours researching for a level premise, with a desire to breathe life into something that started as a single thought, and in the end giving birth to a masterpiece. For a deeper understanding of what I mean, so that those reading this post might realize how their words and actions can have a profound impact on a person's very soul, the creations of many of these artists become their children. Please respect them as such, their ideas, their creations, even their thoughts and opinions, as if they were your own, a part of your soul. If you feel the need to say something, say it from a perspective of encouragement and edification, and let's all enrich each other's lives.

Rick

2010-04-11 00:22:00

Author:
RickRock_777

Posts: 1567

Why haven't any moderators responded to outlaw's post? I'm very strongly starting to agree that rep just isn't a positive feature.

2010-04-11 02:40:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

Why haven't any moderators responded to outlaw's post? I'm very strongly starting to agree that rep just isn't a positive feature.

Even though it may seem unnecessary, it DOES provide incentive to post more thoughtfully and to be general nice around the place. Also, it's nicer to have a quick "Thanks!" than to respond to posts that you appreciate with actually saying "Thanks."

2010-04-11 02:50:00

Author:
comphermc

Posts: 5338

While I do kinda agree that removing rep for the purpose of everyone being equal is communist... j/k

Anyway, yeah, rep should probably go. Let me see if I can find the original rep thread...

https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=1600-Post-Reputation-System

Look towards the bottom...

We've taken away all over forms some people may be able to boost their elitism, why keep this one?

2010-04-11 02:57:00

Author:
RockSauron

Posts: 10882

Reputation:
----------------------------------

Thank you rock, I agree.

-Rep seems to influense members' opinions dramatically.
-Rep abuse still exists, although not in large numbers.
-(I've been told) mods don't track rep, meaning there could be rep abuse that goes unnoticed.
-There are usually enough rewards (friendship, recognition, appreciation) to encourage good behavior.
-Extremely rude posts get publicly thanked all the time, opinions that this site definitely doesn't sponsor.

Separate Note:
----------------------------------

CCcubbage and others, remember that LBP is far from a perfect game. (Let's face it; The cool levels, impersonation possibilities, promotion system, and dozens of other important aspects of the game are crap.) That's one of the few things we can ALL agree on.

...And negativity there carries on to the forum. comphermc's mediamolecules impersonation thread has the possibility of warning many, along with the possibility of spreading negativity. Make that thread, or don't make it, it's a horrible choice, isn't it?

2010-04-11 03:05:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

Gosh - I'm away from the site for 9 hours and I miss this epic discussion.

I've always tried to keep in mind the golden rule when posting. If I wouldn't want something I post sent to me I don't post it. There are real people behind our fun avatars and words can hurt.

I think your right on target CCubbage about people needing to respect other members here. I think empathy goes a long way to help decide how to interact with other members here too.

I don't know if more rules are the answer - I've never been on another forum so I have no experience from which to draw on for that. I just hope that the negativity and petty, sniping posting subsides.

I like it here and wouldn't want to get to the point where it's too mean around here to visit.

2010-04-11 03:38:00

Author:
Morgana25

Posts: 5983

I'm not familiar with the rep system or whatever, is the number of green bars equivalent to the number of thanks or something? I thought it was like post count or something before. It would be nice if it could go. I guess that's easy for me to say as someone who has just 1 bar, but my lack of... bars may get me ignored at times.

2010-04-11 04:12:00

Author:
monstahr

Posts: 1361

The reason I feel so passionate about this is that, well... I've seen negativity take down sites far too often.

For example, I want to bring up the incident when the Criterion Games forum was shut down. It was sudden, dramatic... and saddening.

It all started waaay back then... around the beginning of 2008 or so. The community was prosperous and joyful. Well-known members like ZeroJay, YBMaster and Yabba's_Turd were the equivalents to Rock, Morgana and rtm on this site: nice, helpful... and plain crazy

. New members appeared almost everyday, and all was well. The staff of Criterion saw it, and it was good... for a while. But then one guy (forgot his name)... just barged into the site, acting all show-off-ish and what-not... and everyone replied. The thread spanned over 20 pages in under 30 minutes... it passed 50 by 40. By the end of the day, it was over 100 pages long. It got to the point that the posts were absolutely absurd, with almost every post having an "EPIC FAIL" picture. With me being the conservative dork I am (my identity/PSN back then was Stickville), I tried to stop it by saying that everyone should just calm down and that the guy had enough punishment. Instead of making people stop, it fueled them, making the members lash out at me. This caused for some other experienced members to syphasize with me and asking for the nonsense to stop also. This just sparked a full-on war across the site... up to the point that the developers themselves had to step in and stop it. After that, things only got worse. More arguements arose, newbies started retaliating and spamming the boards, and many members left because they couldn't deal with all of the negativity.

Then, suddenly, Criterion pulled the plug. It was sudden, dramatic... and saddening. The forum was deleted from the Internet, permanently. A community of at least 800-1,000 members was lost over-night. Only about 50-100 migrated over to nearby Operation Burnout, where now the site is contemplating on the future of Burnout: Paradise itself. All other members... gone.

That's why I'm so passionate about this website and it's community... and why I get very concearned about it's morality and attitude. Because I want to prevent this site from going down the same path that Criterion did.

2010-04-11 04:33:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack

Posts: 5757

Compared to other forums this one is actually pretty good, there isn't as much negativity going around. I feel as though the mods here do a decent enough job but there is definitely more room for improvement. I've seen others in here being publicly insulted and it seems as though nothing is done about it, Mods can edit posts but often times I see very little of that.

But I can relate with your last statement, I don't visit these forums as often as I use to. There are many times when I have been labeled a "hater" and even worse just for giving my opinion on a subject, it almost feels as though you have to kiss everyone's *** on here for your opinion to matter.

I'm not familiar with the rep system or whatever, is the number of green bars equivalent to the number of thanks or something? I thought it was like post count or something before. It would be nice if it could go. I guess that's easy for me to say as someone who has just 1 bar, but my lack of... bars may get me ignored at times.
100 thanks=2 bars, 200 thanks=3 bars, etc..

2010-04-11 04:44:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger

Posts: 787

OutLaw-Jack is so right. It's exactly why I had said that sometimes there's a very thin line between defending someone and just adding to the madness.

2010-04-11 04:44:00

Author:
TheCountessZ

Posts: 537

@Everyone
Well, yes the rep system displays bars that displays the poster's so called "attitude". But, here's my opinion on it:

You can't just solve a problem by removing a "reward", if that's how it is. The rep system is a small thing compared to everything else that influences the members. Negative rep'ing someone is kind of a good thing, that way they know what they did wrong, and positive rep'ing someone will tell them "Hey. Maybe I should act like nice more!" Removing the system is only going to minimize the problem by an inch or so, when we actually got a mile to go here. Yes, this sounds a lot, but other forums got more than a mile... they got light years to go!

So, removing the system isn't going to solve the problem, but only shorten it. You might be thinking that I love the system, and I'm just being greedy. Honestly though, I don't care if you get rid of it, but I don't think we should favor this as our solution to our problems. I don't know, I haven't had much experience with these things, but I'm not pointing the finger on some stupid program. It's not the system that gives itself power, it's our beliefs and attitudes that give the system the power.

Peace

2010-04-11 04:45:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

CyberSora, you're already dead wrong when you wrote that a person with higher rep is someone to look up to.

There are people on the forums with large amounts of rep that don't deserve it, but to avoid a flame war, I'll use Clank as an example - He did rep for rep, spammed constantly, ignored moderators' warnings, and for a long time, had a gigantic amount of rep.

Also, if rep is a sign of who to look up to, it implies people with less rep are people not to look up to.

2010-04-11 04:51:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

). So with that, I'm editing the post. Thanks.

But still, I'm not calling this the solution we need. This situation is way more complex than a stupid system's opinion/programming. This is the basic factor of an actual living being and their free will that can change one's attitude.

2010-04-11 05:01:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

lol I did not expect that response. No problem. I respect your opinion though, of course.

2010-04-11 05:03:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

lol I did not expect that response. No problem. I respect your opinion though, of course.

Well I'm glad you don't think I'm a suck-up. Some forums like the immaturity that this site lacks. So when they read my comments, they tend to tell me I have no backbone... well, they say worser things, but I'm not going there.

2010-04-11 05:06:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

Well I'm glad you don't think I'm a suck-up. Some forums like the immaturity that this site lacks. So when they read my comments, they tend to tell me I have no backbone... well, they say worser things, but I'm not going there.

This is why I like this site. We have very respectful posters here. I hope it continues to be that way for a long time. Hopefully this forum will last as long as LBP will and even beyond. I can't say much about the reputation system as I have not been here long enough to fully understand it. However, I do know that the rep system is a nice way of letting the user know how they are doing. If the user gets a bad rep, hopefully they will realize that they need to improve their behavior. If the user receives good rep, they will realize they are demonstrating good behavior. Of course, there is always room for abuse in a system like this, however I don't see it being a huge problem in this forum.

It's important to realize that there are real people behind these avatars with real feelings. Before posting a possible negative comment, ask yourself if it's really worth it and if it will generate something worthwhile.

2010-04-11 05:45:00

Author:
Silverpanther

Posts: 156

It's important to realize that there are real people behind these avatars with real feelings. Before posting a possible negative comment, ask yourself if it's really worth it and if it will generate something worthwhile.

Game Winning Quote.

Just a reminder: this system has no meaning, unless the people give it meaning. In reality, it's just a pixelized graphic, but we believe it as a reputation displaying picture. So ya, not really important all the time.

2010-04-11 05:53:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

As to the original purpose of the thread, I agree. Consideration should be shown for all who join Little Big Planet Central, and really the world, but I don't expect that miracle to be adopted immediately

We come from all sorts of backgrounds: from different countries, from different age groups, from different cultures- all in order to celebrate (and occationally gripe about) Little Big Planet. LBP is all about Play, Create, Share- it values diversity in all its forms, and is about the freedom of expression. I have played some wonderful bomb survivals, and I have played some story based platformers that could be improved, and all have came from members of this forum. There are amazing creators who are still in their youth, and novice creators well into adulthood- it does not matter where one comes from, we all are seeking to share our work with the world. Give a player a popit and he or she may create a masterpiece of magnificent proportions- what that masterpiece may take the form of differs from player to player, but (as they say) "beauty is in the eye of the beholder." Now if you take that player, and you tell them that their too young, or you tell them that their work is rubbish, and all you are doing is beating them down because you don't see things the same way. I'm sure that I'm no perfect paragon of virtue myself, but this is why we should truly give consideration to one another, and attempt to observe the Golden Rule. Embrace diversity, consider the other point of view, after all- It's just a game

When people come to these forums, we should welcome them with open arms and minds. (after all, thats what the introdction forum is about, isn't it?) What may seem like a "noobish" behaviour to an established member may seem perfectly normal to a new one- It isn't our job to scorn and scold and blame, the best we can do is help a new member find their way. Sometimes people come in and double post, and don't use the search function, and revive dead topics, or put down ones hard work and opinions, and it may make one feel fit to burst with rage- but it is important to take a step back, calm down a bit, and respond in the appropriate manner. There is no reason to belittle or insult a person, hatred can only lead to more hatred. Diversity may occationally put up walls between us, but in the end it is what helps us grow most of all. Different opinions help one to see different sides of a problem, and group discussions among our members can often lead to very thought provoking conversation. All users of this forum have something to offer, we may not always see eye to eye, but we all have something to offer just the same.

As to the reputation system which seems to be the current discussion, I believe it definitely has its place. I might not always think of the right thing to say, or the best way to phrase things, or even what more I can say aside from "thanks!," and I absolutely adore the Thanks button as a result. Its my way of telling others things like that I support what they're saying, I appreciate that they've done, or I find their comment proved highly amusing, or educational. I am thanking them sincerely for their behaviour, and it is nice that I may also send a bit of repuation their way. If every use of the thanks button were to remove reputation from myself, I would do it gladly. While high reputation does not necessarily mean I should respect a person, it often does reflect it. I respect many of the members of LBPC, and many of them have high reputations to show for it. Neither respect, nor reputation come out of nowhere- they must be earned, which is why I feel there is value in the system.

However the rest of the reputation system, I do have a bit of an issue with. I try to avoid using it, because it is grossly unbalanced. If ConfusedCartman were to swoop down from the admin control panel, and decide that he disliked my post, and negative repped it as a result- I would lose quite a bit of reputation. However, if a new user were to do it, I would lose none at all. In both cases, I have annoyed a single user, however one of them has far greater power to affect my reputation than the other. Similarly, If Comphermc were to become so overjoyed at my post that he decided to throw a few reputation points my way, my reputation would increase dramatically. If a new user were to do it, it would only go up a little. While I agree that senority does count for something (at least to prevent abuse from random trolls), I do not believe that it is necessarily the right idea. In both cases, a single post has offended/amused a single reader, but the consequences of that post are dramatically different depending on the user who has been offended/amused.

Perhaps something such as a (for lack of a better term

) "No Thanks" button could be put in. Something that a member could use to indicate that they disapprove of a post (as the situation will inevitably rise) without completely destroying the other members reputation. Or perhaps there could be some caps on reputation added/removed- so that members who have senority still have a certain sway in spreading reputation around, but lack the ability to drastically change a persons reputation. Something to think about, to be sure.

I put a lot of thought and consideration into this post, may others do the same with all our members.

For the TL;DR crowd: Something about rabid babboons devouring the East Coast of Narnia. It wasn't worth your time, really.

2010-04-11 08:14:00

Author:
Burnvictim42

Posts: 3322

I wish I could make long posts too but everything I write is a summary

So, you like the thanks button but you're unhappy with "rep power"?

2010-04-11 08:24:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

The thanks button distributes rep in small quanities- In this respect all members are treated equally. This is mainly why I like this button. Using the reputation system distributes large globs of reputation which are not always proportionate to what is deserved. And i'm sure you can make long posts as well, it just takes a while to formulate all ones thoughts sometimes.

2010-04-11 08:40:00

Author:
Burnvictim42

Posts: 3322

I think you made a mistake in post #60. When a new member positive or negative reps you, it doesn't change anything, and a grey nub appears in you rep history. CC said it was "to prevent abuse of the reputation system" because of new members and duplicate accounts. It's sort of strange -- a new member's thanks is more powerful than his reps.

However: To get the most thanks, it's a contest to see how you can get your post noticed, and whether you're saying what people agree with. I've gotten repped by respected members for jokes thought up in five seconds and gotten hints of thanks for long explanations. It's a very unfair and unbalanced system in my opinion.

The rep system is very easy to "cheat" if I wanted more. I've spent my share of time helping people who are new to LBP and LBPC, posting in the help forum, who don't know what rep is. Rep is never my motivation for helping people. It's not people like comphermc's or rtm223's motivation, as they've reached maximum rep but continue to go out of their way to help people. I don't think a reward is all that necessary in a place like this.

2010-04-11 08:50:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

Hmmmm.... the rep system. Not sure I have an opinion on it. Cesar_72 sent me a PSN message the other day saying "WOW! You have a LOT of green bars on LPBCentral! I replied back "That's because people tend to put a lot of 'Thanks' on posts I make. It doesn't mean much on the site."

The only reason I like the rep system is because it's really convenient to give approval to a post. I don't think I've ever paid attention to it as a barometer (although a while back CompherMC and I had a bit of a joke on the fact that our rep had somehow gotten REALLY high).

But I'm not sure rep is really the issue here - being considerate on this site will encourage good behavior, and I felt this thread would encourage it. Trying to blame behavior on a little green bar under a sig doesn't really connect with me. The ability to be tactful and nice is something that should be a part of your life even away from an internet forum.

If you approach feedback and discussions in an antagonistic way, it will have a negative affect on reputation. Some of the people mentioned here that have "negative" rep consistently approached discussions in an antagonistic fashion, even if the meaning behind the posts could have been helpful.

An example:

You're going to play someones level with the intent of giving feedback on their showcase thread.
It has terrible graphics, frustrating gameplay, and you absolutely hate it.

Do you give feedback that says "This level is TERRIBLE!"

or do you say something like:

"There are some gameplay elements that many players may find frustrating. Here's how you can improve those areas a bit"

One approach makes the creator feel terrible, and may discourage bulding new levels. Which would be a shame if it turns out to be a child who really looked forward to getting feedback on the forum. The other approach makes them feel like they've made some friends, and they now have help to become a better creator.

2010-04-11 12:47:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

I would hate to see the rep system abolished. Not because I'd lose my big green rep bar, but because it would take away that thanks button, which IMO would be a tragic loss to the site. I agree with incinerator that the thanks is often used to appreciate trivialities, like conversations about thrupnies and general jokes, but I don't think that is actually a bad thing. Consider the main topic here, the consideration of others and the general feel of the community. We wouldn't have a true community if everything was all business and people who add humour to the conversations do as much good in terms of the community as people who post technical solutions to problems.

I don't really like the rep power thing though, and to me negative rep is a horrible thing, especially when coupled with rep power. Neg Rep is just a means of trolling others and punishing them anonymously. We all know how much freedom the basic anonymity of the internet gives to trolls, but with neg rep we boost that even further by taking away even the user name.

I'd happily see the rep button go, but please don't take away the thanks button. It's a simply feature that actually adds a lot to the community part of the site,

Now I don't believe that the rep system gives a direct link to how respectable a member is, but it's still a nice thing and to be honest, pretty much everyone who has a maxxed out rep bar has made massive contributions to the site, to the game and to this community.

2010-04-11 13:50:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

I think the site is great to be honest. I joined back in october I think and I've had a great time here. It's a massive site that carries tutorials, levels, objects, social groups and a LOT more. I wasn't here when there was a 'close community' feel, but I can tell you that this still IS a great community and a great place to hang out. It attracts young and old, eager and lazy, talented and not.

I've run forums in the past and you always get a few idiots and even mature people will have arguments on occaision. thats part of being human and part of the internet.

My personal way of dealing with problems is to send people PM's to air grievences. People WILL annoy each other from time to time, but I think a private word with someone is always better than a public speech.

In regards to the online create competition, that had REAL prizes (i.e. not just for fun) so tensions were always going to run high. In the comp where I won my crown on LBCW (still havent received it!), there was a ton of moaning too. I think compeitions with prizes tend to bring out grumbles. Things like the caption competitions and competitions for rep tend to work well cos the emphesis is always on the taking part rather than the winning.

My only other point (and this is slightly aimed at the OP), is that a few bad people, and a few moans doesn't ruin a community. This site is AMAZING. A few dedicated admins and mods, a load of helpful teams that provide resources for other players, the logic pack, all the blogs, social groups etc etc etc is not overruled by a few bad threads.

Of course there have been some horrible things written recently. I've read them and It made me sad. In most cases however I decided to close the thread and read another thread where there was something POSITIVE happening - (which is 98% of the rest!). Unless someone needs defending (in which case its normally the mods job - the report button is fun!), I try not to comment on others bad behaviour. It just extends the conversation.

I seem to not have a good point to finish on, so I'll just recite a song lyric instead.

"if I knew that you were coming I'd have baked a cake. how'd ya do? how'd ya do? how'd ya do?"

2010-04-11 15:46:00

Author:
TheAdipose

Posts: 533

I can't shake the feeling that we're actually contributing to the site. Not in contest or such, but to it's actual presentation. Kind of pressuring actually.

Anyhoo, I think everybody already mentioned this above. Yes, the rep system is a great but eveil thing. But honestly, it's useless. It means nothing, until one actually believes in green bars being a display of good character. It seperates the good from the bad, but in the same time it sperates us. In other words, we have a functioning site that's way more mature than others, so the rep system is hardly corrupted here. Still, I said hardly, not never.

Now new members are pretty much a hassle, but we need to show our respects, no matter what. Like in the Introduce Yourself forum. Sure, some of us go and greet the newcomers here, but why? Is it because some of us care what happens to this new member? Is it because someone just wants to get Thanked in the cheapest way possible? Who knows, we're all people with free will, so we don't have to give reason for our doings. But does that matter for the "newbie"? No! When I came here, I didn't care if everybody just said "Hello" because it was their regular routine, or they expected me to give them rep. All I cared about was that people actually took time to respond to me positivily, and that made me feel happy to know that people would go to my thread, regardless of their reasons.

So my point? Well, members sometimes don't care why you post, but just that you posted something nice. In other words, some new guy comes here with "F4F: EPIC SCORPIONS LEVEL H4H", and I play it. Why? Do I care about H4H? No, but would I want feedback for my level? Yes! For selfish reasons, I play his level, but I don't tell him. Sure, honesty is the best thing here, but sometimes it's best that you keep your mouth shut. So instead of telling him that his level's terrible, and that he souldn't H4H because that looks weak, I say this:

"Well, it's a good level, but there's a part that I think you should add more detail to. Also, H4H isn't all to accepted here. Don't worry though, you'll get the hang of this.

"

This little post can brighten up this guys hopes of being a great Creator. Maybe he might disagree, but I kept my mouth shut, and I gave him something that will help him. For F4F'ers, don't lie here. Did you ever get feedback that you thought was nice, but later feel that they only did it for feedback themselves? At least once? I know I did, but I didn't care. I was happy so that someone just posted.

So all in all, getting Thanked isn't the thing that makes new members here warm and fuzzy, it's our post. Sure, as they learn more, the Thanks! button will soon give them more fuzzy moments, what really makes them happy? The other members approvals, or those useless green bars?

This is why I feel that the rep system should stay. Not the green bars part, but the Thanks! button. It helps people know what others approve, and it also helps people become nicer once in a while. Well, that's my theory.

Peace

2010-04-11 17:33:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

I think that before we post, that we need to remember to treat others the way we would want them to treat us. I always try to put myself in the other persons shoes before I make a reply. I think the best thing to do when you see negativity is just to ignore it, by ignoring it at least your not adding fuel to the fire. In the end we're all here to have fun. LBP is just a hobby after all....

2010-04-11 20:14:00

Author:
smasher

Posts: 641

Some of my thoughts on the subject of the rep system:-

Rep Gems

It would seem reasonable to assume that the veterans of LBPC aren't going to judge another user's 'reputation' very much by the number of rep gems they have, since they have the benefit of experience of that user's previous posts, and would surely place more faith in that experience, than a couple of arbitrary images which happen to appear under that user's name.

So I can only assume that the purpose of these gems is one or both of:-

As a means for new users to determine which responses to their queries are likely to be the most accurate.
To encourage users to value these gems, and try to acquire more by posting useful content.

It's clearly arguable as to whether they actually achieve those purposes or not, but considering the origin of this thread, surely any system which at least attempts to encourage users to post useful content should surely be considered a Good Thing (tm), no?

Thanks vs. Positive Rep

Having both of these would seem somewhat redundant, and I'd probably choose to ditch positive rep, since positive rep is invisible to other users, and much more open to abuse. At least with 'thanks', it's pretty easy for any user to notice when this is being exploited.

I also like the "thanks" concept for two other reasons:-

Requiring just a single click makes it so trivial to express your gratitude for the effort that another user has gone to, but even that single click can mean a lot to the person you're thanking, hopefully encouraging them to do more 'good deeds' in the future.
It takes up much less space in the thread than creating a whole new post just to say "thanks".

Report Post vs. Negative Rep

Quite frankly, there's no need for negative rep at all. If you really believe a post to be so dreadful that it warrants negative rep, then why not just report the post instead?

Simply neg-repping someone isn't necessarily going to stop them from continuing to behave in a way you deem to be 'inappropriate', in fact it may actually encourage it, but reporting the post brings it to the attention of the mods, who, if they agree with you, can take more effective measures to ensure their 'inappropriate' behaviour doesn't continue indefinately.

To summarize, I'm thinking:-

Keep the rep gems and 'thanks' features
Get rid of the positive and negative rep features

2010-04-11 21:10:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

I was thinking, if we get rid of positive/negative rep like Aya said, but keep gems and thanks... would it be possible to get rid of all rep not thanked? So all the rep I have from positive rep would be gone, just the thanks? It'd make i "Fairer" in a sense, but then again it doesn't cut to the actual problem, now does it? ;o

2010-04-11 21:13:00

Author:
RockSauron

Posts: 10882

Quite frankly, there's no need for negative rep at all. If you really believe a post to be so dreadful that it warrants negative rep, then why not just report the post instead?

I'm not trying to argue with a mod but, I don't think that's such a great idea in every case. When you report a post it says:

Note: This is ONLY to be used to report spam, advertising messages, and problematic (harassment, fighting, or rude) posts.

So, some posts you may want to negative rep, might not fit into any of those. For example, say someone posts off topic. Some people may feel the need to negative rep them. But it's not something that can be reported...

2010-04-11 21:23:00

Author:
Doopz

Posts: 5592

Well first of all, it's the kids. I thought there was some kind of law stating that you can't join a forum unless you're over 13 or something. Obviously, LBP is a kid-friendly game and underage members have been filling up the forum lately.
Second, people take LBP way too seriously. Who cares about crowns, popularity, "stealing", etc? It's just a game. The seriousness has caused a lot of threads revoloved around hate, especially towards LBP players and even other community members. It's just ridiculous.

2010-04-11 21:26:00

Author:
Sack-Jake

Posts: 1153

*Walks away* I'll be back when I'm 14 I guess then...

2010-04-11 21:31:00

Author:
Doopz

Posts: 5592

Well first of all, it's the kids. I thought there was some kind of law stating that you can't join a forum unless you're over 13 or something. Obviously, LBP is a kid-friendly game and underage members have been filling up the forum lately

Bringing an age group into the argument is actually the opposite of what this thread is about. This thread is simply about people having respect for others when posting... and I've several times gotten into the attacking mode myself lately, so I figured this would be a useful thread. Jwwphotos hit the nail on the head... treat others as you'd like to be treated. If you don't want others calling your levels garbage, don't do it to them. Be constructive.

That being said, I don't really care either way about the rep system. I do think people thanking each other is a good thing, but I don't think I've ever personally used negative rep unless someone was REALLY being obnoxious and rude.

2010-04-11 21:32:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

So, some posts you may want to negative rep, might not fit into any of those. For example, say someone posts off topic. Some people may feel the need to negative rep them. But it's not something that can be reported...

Go ahead and report those as well. Better to have too many posts reported than not enough. Besides, posting off-topic is an example of something that we do infract for if it's a continued problem.

2010-04-11 21:40:00

Author:
comphermc

Posts: 5338

Go ahead and report those as well. Better to have too many posts reported than not enough. Besides, posting off-topic is an example of something that we do infract for if it's a continued problem.

Oh, ok. In that case, someone should change that note when you report posts...

2010-04-11 21:43:00

Author:
Doopz

Posts: 5592

First of all, I ought to state that those were my personal opinions as a user of the site, and in no way represent the consensus of opinions of those who administrate it. My opinions should not be deemed any more valid than anyone else's just because I foolishly agreed to take on a load of extra responsibilities for no cash reward.

I was thinking, if we get rid of positive/negative rep like Aya said, but keep gems and thanks... would it be possible to get rid of all rep not thanked?

I'm fairly sure it's possible, although I have no idea how easy any of this would be.

When you report a post it says...

If that's the only issue, then presumably that text could be modified to something more appropriate. At the end of the day, the site rules (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=21530-Rules-Consequences) are clear for all to read, and if you believe a post to be in violation of those rules, then surely you can't be blamed for reporting that post.

So, some posts you may want to negative rep, might not fit into any of those. For example, say someone posts off topic. Some people may feel the need to negative rep them. But it's not something that can be reported...

Since rule 3 states "Stay on topic and post only if you have something to contribute to the conversation.", then I don't see that particular case being an issue.

2010-04-11 21:49:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

I've done a bit of personal research, and it is possible to disable negative reputation only. There is surely a way to disable rep in both directions, while maintaining the thanks button.

Source: http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?309197-Option-to-turn-on-positive-reputation-only

The problem then arises if this is going to upset some people. A year ago, rep was actually disabled altogether, and people were very upset. Here is the thread with responses from people when it was turned back on:

https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=7919-Rep-is-back-1-condition&highlight=reputation

So, is everyone going to be happy with the negative rep going away?

2010-04-11 22:04:00

Author:
comphermc

Posts: 5338

Great thoughts on this subject. A few thoughts and a repeat of sorts.

For one, I have to agree with Aya to a point. I think if negative rep goes away, it will possibly mean more posts are reported, but if they are bad enough to be reported, then the issue would be better dealt with to begin with. The reason I say that, is it seems to me of those that have received negative rep, they probably didn't deserve it or if they made such a terrible comment, they weren't too concerned with consequences in the first place. I'm just not so sure positive rep is so bad as I have always enjoyed giving that out when I see someone go above and beyond the call of duty so to speak rather than a thanks.

So my thinking would be at this point, if negative rep can easily be disabled, then that might be the best route to go if we were to make any changes at all.

2010-04-11 22:59:00

Author:
jwwphotos

Posts: 11383

I use neg rep to disappove of a post without starting an arguement. Sure the feature can be abused with trolls, but trolls are trolls. I was once neg repped soon after i joined, i read why, and refrained from acting as such from then on. It can be a useful feature too.

EDIT- It wouldnt break my heart if it was removed though.

2010-04-11 23:04:00

Author:
Jrange378

Posts: 573

^^; Reporting post all fine but really they should't be posting somthing that need Reporting for being negative In the first place.

2010-04-11 23:17:00

Author:
jump_button

Posts: 1014

Heh.... it occurred to me. The starting of this thread had NOTHING to do with rep, but has turned into a discussion about whether to do away with negative rep.... which had nothing to do with the issue. Which means most of this thread is off topic and should be reported.... which would be ironic... no?

But hey, if it's a useful discussion, I'm all for it. Maybe dealing with rep differently would fix some things.

My only other point (and this is slightly aimed at the OP), is that a few bad people, and a few moans doesn't ruin a community. This site is AMAZING. A few dedicated admins and mods, a load of helpful teams that provide resources for other players, the logic pack, all the blogs, social groups etc etc etc is not overruled by a few bad threads.

For the record, I totally agree with this. I love this site, and generally have no problem. The only reason I brought it up isn't because there's a HUGE problem, but that I noticed a trend lately of members (old, new, young, old....) being more bold and ruthless in their posts, and showing less consideration. I saw a bit of this in myself also, and am determined to do better.

Sometimes a bit of maintenance and self-analysis is good and prevents bigger problems.

2010-04-11 23:42:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

I was just going to say, this isn't fundamentally about the rep. lol

So, when you get down to it, isn't it every members responsibility to post responsibly? What I don't get are people that thrive on chaos and strife. Who sew seeds of arguments or fan the flames of an already existing one. I stand by it - if you can't say something nice or well thought out, you shouldn't say anything at all. That said of course people are going to disagree about things here but you can have a civil debate without resorting to name calling, insults or generally bad behavior. It takes some effort and a little bit of maturity sometimes but it's not that hard is it?

2010-04-11 23:51:00

Author:
Morgana25

Posts: 5983

Nice Morgana, I was about to say something similar. Most of our members are considerate and respect others whenever they have a disagreement or problem. What is a reocurring problem is those members who don't have a sense of respect or courtesy for others whenever they post something. I try my best to be as much as a firm, but not arrogant speaker whenever I add some input to a discussion or disagreement. It really surprises me when I see some members who could make things a little more easy going if they just were more friendly and less of a pain in the booty whenever they write things down in a message. I think many people forget about how we all here at LBPC are actual people who take what we read and digest it. It is something that I hope many members should be reminded of whenever they get on a website and understand about a internet fan website. We have opinions, ideals, aspirations, and input. Whenever we want to express those, our wording and feedback are what makes it either a great addition to a discussion or a sad way of saying things which could be take the wrong way. That being said, I think we should all just be congenial and a more friendly community. Maybe, some of us just need to find ways to communicate properly and not just be all huff and puff. I hope I'm not being too "Dr. Phil", I just wish that people would shake off negativity before they direct it at someone in a message. Other than that. Peace!

2010-04-12 00:18:00

Author:
damaz10

Posts: 771

Maybe we should make this a poll on removing the rep system.

2010-04-12 00:32:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

So, is everyone going to be happy with the negative rep going away?

It seems most people here agree that being respectful is the right thing to do when posting, this is great! To answer this question, I think it would be a good idea to remove negative rep. If a post is bad enough to warrant negative rep, then it probably needs reported as well, so I can see the report button fulfilling the role of negative rep just fine.

2010-04-12 00:33:00

Author:
Silverpanther

Posts: 156

I really don't care for the rep system, I think it's an ok thing to have, but it really has no noticable effect on me so I don't bother too much with it. Maybe we should resort to giving people stars instead of rep points...lol

2010-04-12 00:34:00

Author:
damaz10

Posts: 771

2010-04-12 00:39:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

LOL. I agree, stars are NOT the way to go. People would be devastated if they got a one or two star rating! Who are we to judge the worth of an individual?

2010-04-12 00:42:00

Author:
Silverpanther

Posts: 156

Yes, no more negative rep!

2010-04-12 00:46:00

Author:
JspOt

Posts: 3607

Okay, not stars, just give us a piece of candy and I'll be just dandy.

2010-04-12 00:49:00

Author:
damaz10

Posts: 771

Okay, I guess I'll do an unofficial petition or something.

Remove The Rep System Petition
1. CyberSora

So, is it this, the poll, or plain out nothing?

2010-04-12 00:50:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

Seeing as this thread has gone off-track enough already on the topic of rep, how about you start a new thread with a poll? Let's keep this one on the topic of consideration.

2010-04-12 00:59:00

Author:
Silverpanther

Posts: 156

All In Favor Of Replacing The Rep System With A Piece Of Candy Each Time
-damaz10

Lol, im just bored I guess.....

2010-04-12 00:59:00

Author:
damaz10

Posts: 771

Seeing as this thread has gone off-track enough already on the topic of rep, how about you start a new thread with a poll? Let's keep this one on the topic of consideration.

Technically, rep is about approving, which is related to Thanking, which is connected to respect, which is a lot like consideration. So we're not straying too far from the topic.

2010-04-12 01:33:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

Sorry, CyberSora...
I'm with Damaz! CAAAANDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

2010-04-12 01:37:00

Author:
JspOt

Posts: 3607

Sorry I skipped some pages in the middle of the thread but just wanted to share my 2 cents on the topic.

In real life there are laws and there's a police. We are not "ashamed" to have policeman basically everwhere and giving tickets. To solve the problem of a forum like here, you need a COMBINATION of 2 things:

-Being mature and responsable as posters (like many gentlemen here said earlier.
and
-A stronger police force.

To neglect either of those 2 things, this place WILL end up like the workshop or gamefaqs. It's up to us now to let it go this way or correct the issue.
.

2010-04-12 01:42:00

Author:
RangerZero

Posts: 3901

A stronger law doesn't occur to some as good.

2010-04-12 01:44:00

Author:
JspOt

Posts: 3607

Check the Site Feedback. I made a thread with a poll on the rep system.

2010-04-12 02:14:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

A stronger law doesn't occur to some as good.

Not a stronger law, I meant a more effective police. What happens right now might be a sign we need some mods that are more severe.

2010-04-12 02:20:00

Author:
RangerZero

Posts: 3901

Not a stronger law, I meant a more effective police. What happens right now might be a sign we need some mods that are more severe.

That's only going to create a more severe enviroment for the members.

2010-04-12 02:26:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

I think this would be the best poll:

-Leave the reputation system unchanged.
-Remove the reputation system completely.
-Remove the reputation system completely, but keep the thanks button.
-Remove negative reputation and leave everything else unchanged.
-Remove negative reputation and rep power and leave everything else unchanged.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also, CCcubbage, I disagree about reputation not being part of the problem.

There are a lot of reasons why reputation can have the potential to cause negativity. When a new member joins, they can easily feel like they're less important and that anyone with higher rep is someone to look up to. The amount of thanks under any post can sway someone's opinion to defend the winning side of an argument rather than the losing side. About reputation being a measure of who to look up to, this is not always true. Almost any active member will gain reputation over a period of time rather than lose it. If a very helpful member gains maximum reputation in a few months, while a rude member gains maximum reputation from other rude members over a few years, they will both seem helpful and equal in the eyes of any new member who thinks reputation is a measure of who to respect and look up to.

Repuation is meaningless. It only represents how often you posts are noticed, thereof increasing the number of possible reppers and thankers, and how the majority of active reppers and thankers feel about your posts. What else does it mean, other than that, and a meter underneath your avatar that often causes feelings of negative competition and elitism? Not much else.

The popularity of someone's post, and the amount of potential rep they can get, depends entirely in the thread you posted in. The amount of time the thread stays on the first page is an example of a factor that is never "fair" that can mean the difference between a lot of thanks or absolutely nothing. Tutorials are an example of major havens of reputation activity. Arguments, bumps, and taking credit for others' work are examples of ways to make long-lasting first page tutorials to get heaps of reputation.

There are also times when you know whether you'll be repped or thanked or not. In spotlight threads, almost any generic post that can be translated into "good work" will be thanked. When you choose to join the winning side of an argument instead of the losing side, and back up the winning side, you'll get thanked. Likewise, if you create a tutorial for new players, you're unlikely to get thanked or repped by the experienced players who don't learn anything. And if you go to a new member on the help thread who doesn't know what reputation is, and you choose to spend your free-time helping him, you can expect that you won't get any reputation. By knowing what kind of posts get you reputation and what kinds of posts don't, it's ridiculously easy to write generic compliments, join the winning side, and do the kinds of effortless things that can heavily boost your rep.

There is no specific guide in the site rules of what kind of post is encouraged for you to rep. That leads to all kinds of possibility for members to feel cheated. Some members may feel that reputation depends on hard work, while others may feel it depends on pure talent. So, someone who puts time and thought into a post meant to help someone but does a bad job on explaining the subject or getting his feelings across can feel cheated if he doesn't get any rep.

The main argument for keeping repuatation seems to be that it motivates good behaviour. Again, I'll use an older member as an example to avoid a flame war. What about Vidi-Vici? He joked about his rep. He had three red bars and called himself the king of bad rep. It didn't affect his behaviour at all because he knew it was meaningless. Reputation doesn't have any benefits or consequences from moderators. Likewise, there are people with maximum reputation, like comphermc. Are they being consistently polite and putting large amounts of thought and effort into everything the post for the reputation? Of course not. Quite a few of our most helpful members have maximum reputation but their consistency in helping others show that reputation has never been their motivation for being who they are.

I think the fact that you can "cheat" the reputation system speaks for itself. They are meaningless green, red, and grey bars. I don't see why removing positive and negative rep, but keeping the reputation system and thanks button as a whole, would change much.

However, I don't disagree that thanks is a very convenient way of telling someone you approve. Because it's public though, can't it sway the opinions of members? And like I've wrote, I don't think reputation is a beneficial system. I think the best choice is to keep the thanks button, but make it private, and remove the reputation system.

Thank you to anyone who has read this, and wants to respond, and I mean no disrespect to anyone who thinks otherwise

2010-04-12 02:29:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

@Incinerator
Yes... you forgot a period at the end of your last sentence. You just failed at being grammar wise!

Just kidding. Great read and well put. Although, I think that some people care what they say in order to sound nice, while others don't give a 'd' and just want rep. Sure, it's a selfish thing, but the people who read it take it as a positive thing, and for that they thank them.

Do you really think 100% of the people in the Community Spotlight threads are telling the truth when they say "I played all these levels, and they're awesome!"? No, some of them are lying, but do we care? Do we interrogate them? No. And why? Because reading a comment like that gives a person some type of feeling, a feeling that makes them special. They don't care if it's false, because they'll convince themselves to believe it. Maybe they knoe it's fake, but either way they appreciate the user picking their words carefully, even though it's for rep.

And that's my opinion. Feel free to go against or for it.

Peace

2010-04-12 02:42:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

In forum grammar, smilies count as punctuation

I was focusing on that anyone can effortlessly write "keep up the good work", without choosing their words carefully, and get thanked. If reputation was removed, there would still be generic compliments, but they would be written to be actual compliments and not for for reputation.

2010-04-12 02:56:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

Ouch.... my head hurts.

I agree that it's possible for rep to be an issue, I personally don't think much about it. For me, it becomes fairly clear by reading posts who the helpful people are.

But, I still fail to see how the issue of reputation goes back to showing consideration for others in posts.... I can be nice to anyone around me in real life.... dispite not seeing little green bars appearing next to them cluing me in as to whether they deserve my niceness.

I hope this thread simply encourages people to be nice when posting and try to help other members have fun. I wasn't trying to start a huge change in policy to the site.

2010-04-12 03:02:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

I know. Sometimes something small can grow into a huge thing. Let's recap here:

* Ccubbage is sad that people are'nt nice enough.
* People feel that others should be nicer.
* Apperantly we start coming up with theories for the negativity.
* The rep system topic pops up.
* We start debating from here.
* Mods are getting involved, both solution wise and debating wise.
* Now we all have headaches.

Wow, and all this in about 24 hours.

2010-04-12 03:10:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

I think alot of this is just how much the game has grown. last year, it was just us original creators. It didnt grow much untill Sony got its grubby hands on it. now its just so big, there is bound to be some bad people here and there. and MM wasnt expecting this giant success, so ofcouse they will let us down fromn time to time. we have to forgive them.

2010-04-12 03:13:00

Author:
poorjack

Posts: 1806

Ouch.... my head hurts.

lol... mine too.

I agree that it's possible for rep to be an issue, I personally don't think much about it. For me, it becomes fairly clear by reading posts who the helpful people are.

Can you narrow down fighting to one problem? There are many different smaller problems that add up. It's being debated if reputation is one of them. Unlike LBP's impersonation issues, or moderation problems, this one is "fixable".

If you can tell how helpful someone is from their post, isn't that another argument to how reputation is a bit meaningless?

2010-04-12 03:17:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

If you can tell how helpful someone is from their post, isn't that another argument to how reputation is a bit meaningless?

But the rep is a global indicator of how much a member is helpful or active...

It's surely more practical to look quickly at the green bars on the left, than going on the posts list of a member and read them all, just to see how much he(she) is helpful...

2010-04-12 03:35:00

Author:
dajdaj03

Posts: 1486

But the rep is a global indicator of how much a member is helpful or active...

It's surely more practical to look quickly at the green bars on the left, than going on the posts list of a member and read them all, just to see how much he(she) is helpful...

Did you even read my post? I've explained that reputation doesn't always prove your helpfulness.

2010-04-12 03:42:00

Author:
Incinerator22

Posts: 3251

I think that the fact that this thread has grown so much in a short amount of time shows that this is an important topic. Thanks for making it CCubbage. Rep is only part of the problem. The truth is that there are nice people and not so nice people out in the world. This site has been lucky and seems to attract mostly the nice, respectful people. However, there is always the possibility that someone will come here with ill intentions. One point for abuse in the rep system is negative rep, which is one of the reasons why I think it should be removed. (Although new members don't have much affect using neg rep right?) I've seen forums where people come for the sole purpose of "trolling" and trying to start flame wars. Situations like these can easily be resolved by using the report button.

My hope is that this thread is being read by everyone and they realize that this forum has many respectful, thoughtful members who want the best for this site. This thread has seen some great replies and has provided some thought provoking discussions. (Keep it up!)

On another note, if you're coming here to be a jerk, I suggest you go to some other forum. I have seen many forums were it is allowed and not monitored but here, it is not tolerated. For this, I am grateful. (Note that I have not really seen any jerks here recently and I hope it stays that way)

Overall, I am glad this topic was brought up and I am amazed at the responses. This is why this forum is my favorite.

2010-04-12 03:50:00

Author:
Silverpanther

Posts: 156

Yeah. Out of all the forums, I think this is the only one that has people who treat others with respect. The other forums have a bunch of people who are too immature to follow what they're supposed to have learned by elementary school.

2010-04-12 03:57:00

Author:
JspOt

Posts: 3607

Yea, I think people forget the golden rule. "Treat others as you would you like to be treated." Yes, this does apply to forums also, people! It's incredible how people think that because they are behind an avatar and are anonymous, they can do whatever they please.

2010-04-12 04:02:00

Author:
Silverpanther

Posts: 156

Did you even read my post? I've explained that reputation doesn't always prove your helpfulness.

I was just being a little sarcastic, but yes, you're right... true, not always

I just meant that rep is globally a good indicator (not 100% perfect) for how much a member is active or/and helpful or/and how much he is participating (posts/thread) or/and involved in the forum...

2010-04-12 04:16:00

Author:
dajdaj03

Posts: 1486

Eh-heh... wow, I didn't know rep would be so controversial. Sorry I brought it up! ^_^'

But in all seriousness, we all know that reputation isn't the sole source of this problem, but can be a major factor in why the community has changed. Yet even I know there's much more behind this.

When important people leave this site (such as Zwollie and MrsSpookyBuz), that also affects the community in a way. When I was trying to post on LBPC after MrsSpookyBuz left, post frequency was at an all-time low. The site felt empty and decript of it's former self, with barely 10-20 people on at any given time. And when Zwollie left, the threads in Community Contests and various other threads sank deep into the back pages, never to be seen. Everyone felt so sad and mournful... it didn't make the site that friendly for the newcomers that week.

Also, tensions rise as various members across the site bring up infamous people and bad situations (i.e. russelsmussels, level stealers, copiers). Many people (including myself... somethimes) show sympathy and make all of these threats and dead promises to punish the person or something. I find this worrying because it may make the newcomers feel as though they can exact revenge in a threatening way. With my experience in arguements like those (trust me, they aren't pretty), I strongly recommend that some people control their anger/evil desires to a tolerable level. After all, what's the point in presenting a problem when half of it is threats and anger?

Finally... I feel as though many people on LBPC overreact to changes/sudden events. When MrsSpookyBuz was officially leaving, her goodbye thread spanned over 50 pages. When mistervista posts about more confrontations with Sony and his bad luck, 6-10 posts pop up in less than 10 minutes... showing sympathy toward's his cause and raging against Sony itself. If it wasn't for that company in the first place, LittleBIGPlanet would've never seen the light of day!! People just feel as though they can jump straight into a pit without thinking, posting biased messages that can mislead new and old members alike. That, I believe, is perhaps the biggest problem on this site.

Now don't get me wrong, LBPC is MUCH BETTER OFF than most other forums out there. This community cares about eachother enough that they wish to resolve it in the best way possible. Other ones just go into insane flame wars and uncontrollable outrage. Some even collapse under all of the pressure and disappear as a whole. But I fear that if we try to take drastic measures now... we might regret it later on.

So, I propose that we just let things resume as normal for a little while and see what actually happens. If any major problems arise, then we should take action about them. Because currently... as is relatively calm. Remember, patience is a virtue.

2010-04-12 04:58:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack

Posts: 5757

Like the ongoing poll thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=25312-Should-the-Rep-System-be-Removed), this also isn't really to do with LBP - moved to Site Feedback.

2010-04-12 14:49:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

Why did we side-track ourselves here? My God, I now feel stupid for making the poll. I mean look at us, we're bickering about a program here!

I know, it's connected to a person's attitude in a way, but this thread is about "consideration", not about why people act like they do. We're pinning a system that means absolutely nothing, when we should be taking up the responsibilties here. Maybe removing the system is bad and good, whatever. But is this thread about that? No, it is about showing respect towards one another, apologizing for our action, and so on. Bringing up the rep system topic was a completely lazy way to ignore this thread's purpose.

Go ahead and disagree, because yes talking about "Maybe people are mean because..." and etc. are related to this, but repeating the topic over and over again isn't going to help one bit. So I'm dropping the topic for right now and moving on into showing my "consideration" towards a few people:

@Ccubbage
Sorry for getting into this thread and posting things like this. I never wanted this to happen. Sure, it's a little topic, but I seen arguments about stupid stuff. These arguments start small, but then they do bad things to people... it gives them hate and anger. Even though this site has mature members, I feel like we're nearing the point where someone is going to say something so bad that everybody is going to beserk with "facepalms" and negative reps. So sorry for my posts.

@Incinerator
You're probably the only one to go against my thoughts, so I guess I said something you found stupid. Well, ya, I'm not perfect. So sorry about posting it in the first place. I'm not new here, but yet I'm not an old member to. In other words, I think I'm talking about more than I know. So ya... enough said.

@Everybody
Well many of you don't know me, and I'm not too familiar with all of you too. But I know I love this site, and I know some of you share the same passion, and reading this post might give you a clue about me. Hopefully, that clue shouts to you that I want to contribute to this site. So what I'm trying to say is this: I'm not ending this debate, but I'm not resuming it for a while. I feel like before we jump into an issue, we forget what needs to be addressed, hence this consideration thread.

So there, I said my respects, and maybe a lesson or two. Maybe it's cheesy, and maybe you don't believe me. In fact, you might just be thinking about giving a rant on my post. Well I don't care, because at least I know I tried to give some consideration. Afterall, isn't this what the thread's about? Consideration?

Peace

2010-04-12 22:41:00

Author:
CyberSora

Posts: 5551

I know lbp and lbpc is great and all, but people take this stuff way too seriously.

2010-04-12 22:58:00

Author:
Jrange378

Posts: 573

To be honest, I don't like the rep bar, but that's because I don't post enough. Sure I could, but some people don't have time. And since because of that, I have low rep which makes people seem imo to look down at me abit. That's how I feel anyway, and if you want to see if I am a total ******* or not check out my levels.
What I would like to see if there is a rep bar that's automatically full - everybody stays at the same par unless someone is negatively repped.

And instead of all the posistive and thanks rewards you achieve to get your rep bar big, it would be nice if we could use them instead on new avatars, different profile customizations, cool signitures, that sort of thing. This idea could be bad but it's what I just thought up now, lol.
I don't know if it's a good way to run the rep system or not, but might aswel share my thoughts.

2010-04-12 23:16:00

Author:
AgentBanana

Posts: 511

And instead of all the posistive and thanks rewards you achieve to get your rep bar big, it would be nice if we could use them instead on new avatars, different profile customizations, cool signitures, that sort of thing. This idea could be bad but it's what I just thought up now, lol.
I don't know if it's a good way to run the rep system or not, but might aswel share my thoughts.

You are describing the experience system, which is reportedly in the works.

2010-04-12 23:22:00

Author:
comphermc

Posts: 5338

Oooooooh. Sounds nice if that what it is. Thanks. Actions speak louder than words I suppose.

2010-04-12 23:24:00

Author:
AgentBanana

Posts: 511

That's only going to create a more severe enviroment for the members.

Well, it wouldn't be more severe if there's no new rules. The only ones that would suffer from mods with a better ban hammer are people making problems. In short, all would be well. What I'd have in mind is something like NeoGAF moderation style but only in a smaller scale. GAF is one of the biggest gaming forum ever with IGN, Gamespot and Gamefaqs but it's the most decent place of the bunch where you still can have intelligent and respectfull discussions. And this is because the rules are clear and the mods are active and severe.

.

2010-04-13 02:29:00

Author:
RangerZero

Posts: 3901

NeoGAF moderators tend to overreact sometimes

2010-04-13 02:39:00

Author:
monstahr

Posts: 1361

Well said, CCubbage! I totally agree with you and all who follow the Golden Rule line of interacting with others. Sometimes it takes a bit of effort to severely edit or even hold back what you might want to say to someone when you know it's purely for your own personal vilification and not for the good of the community. Bravo to those who have done it in the past and continue to exercise such good judgment, and there are many of you here, hopefully including myself in that group :/ Leading by example is always the answer. Some will follow and some won't but eventually those that won't will move on as they're not getting the responses they are after in the form of negative attention, like badly behaved children seek. For some people, any attention is better than none. It's always been that way and always will be, sadly.

I've addressed my thoughts on the rep system over on Cybersora's thread, but if I can address the community 'feel' for a moment. I personally lay some (certainly not all) of the negativity and lack of community spirit that's gone on in recent months at the feet of the rapid growth of the site, via members advertising LBPC on their levels and the success of the logic pack, etc. It's certainly a good thing to have the community grow and have new diversity and talent join the ranks, but it makes things feel different and it's human nature to long for the comfort of things as they once were. I know of people who were frequent posters in the social groups who dwindled and dropped off once the comments of the regulars they were used to chatting with were diluted with assorted newcomers who, in a way, seemed to interrupt their little conversation circle, particularly if they were unfamiliar with the general etiquette of the site. I've felt that way myself at times. No-one likes being forced into changes that they didn't necessarily agree to or see coming (a la the hullabaloo over the VBulletin upgrade.. lol!). It can really affect our enthusiasm and the quality of our involvement on the site.

Nevertheless, I'm a firm believer in time working things out. Newcomers settle in or move on. It's sad when friends leave but new friends come, and many of the newcomers over the months that I've been a member here have become some of my favourite friends and posters, I just needed to allow them time for me to get to know them a little before throwing in the towel with the complaint that "it's not how it used to be". Nothing in life ever is. I know this refers mainly to the social groups, but as that's where I tend to spend most of my LBPC time (actively avoiding the mosh pits of OC comp threads, and the like) I wanted to give my perspective. There are many, MANY LBPC members whose main activity here is social - which has nothing whatever to do with the rep system, despite its obvious value in our lives and our LBP experience.

Thanks for listening to the perspective of an old woman

2010-04-13 04:57:00

Author:
BabyDoll1970

Posts: 1567

...particularly if they were unfamiliar with the general etiquette of the site.

Actually, it seems to me as if "unfamiliarity of etiquette" pretty much sums up most of the problems.

Sure, there are always going to be a few people out there who deliberately go out of their way to make things unpleasant for everyone else, but fortunately they're in the minority. These are the sorts of cases where you need moderators.

Going back to the origins of this thread, it's more about those people who are generally trying to "do the right thing", but are perhaps unaware that their behaviour can be a little irritating to others. These cases can often be handled without moderators stepping in, by simply pointing out to that individual, why you thought their behaviour was inappropriate. Reason is almost always more effective than dogma.

These problems have plagued the internet long before the existence of web-based forums. They tend to be more problematic with long-distance communication than with face-to-face communication, because fear of retribution doesn't really apply, particularly when combined with relative anonymity.

The netiquette RFC (http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1855.html) is still one of the most commonly linked to documents on the subject, despite how out-of-date it is, because much of it is generic enough to apply to all systems which allow people to communicate over the internet, regardless of the technologies they use to do it.

Finally, I know this has been mentioned before a couple of times, but don't be afraid to use the "report post" button. Despite the 'note' which appears when you click it, it's really no big deal. There are a lot of posts made on these forums, so even if you use it to bring something relatively minor to the moderators' attention, we can keep an eye on that thread, and step in if the situation starts to get out of hand.

Due to the way in which the forum software works, it's probably also preferable to use this feature to point out other things which need sorting out, such as threads which are in the wrong forum, and duplicate threads.

2010-04-13 14:41:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

These problems have plagued the internet long before the existence of web-based forums. They tend to be more problematic with long-distance communication than with face-to-face communication, because fear of retribution doesn't really apply, particularly when combined with relative anonymity.

To add a bit to this particular thought, one thing I've noticed is that people tend to misinterpret emails and forum posts much more than the same thing said in general conversation. This is because quite a bit of communication is conveyed by body language and facial expressions. I used to have HUGE problems with employees having battles through emails until I brought them all in a meeting and said "It's now prohibited to have arguments through emails. Just walk across the building and talk to the person if you think something they wrote was wrong."

So, if you're on this forum - picture people posting with a smile on their face. Try to give their meaning the benefit of the doubt. Don't assume the worst. Sometimes people are just trying to be ironic or funny, and thought people would get a kick out of what they typed. Instead of posting a reply openly in the thread that chops them off at the knees, try sending a PM.

2010-04-13 15:57:00

Author:
CCubbage

Posts: 4430

This is because quite a bit of communication is conveyed by body language and facial expressions. I used to have HUGE problems with employees having battles through emails until I brought them all in a meeting and said "It's now prohibited to have arguments through emails. Just walk across the building and talk to the person if you think something they wrote was wrong."

Going slightly off-topic here, but often I find that just the person's tone of voice is sufficient to resolve most ambiguity in language, which is why, in the office context, I prefer to discuss things over the phone rather than using email.

Sometimes people are just trying to be ironic or funny, and thought people would get a kick out of what they typed. Instead of posting a reply openly in the thread that chops them off at the knees, try sending a PM.

To add to this, if you are the sort of person who has a somewhat 'dry' sense of humour, it might be advisable to use smiley faces and/or point out that you're only joking. I've seen so many cases, in the past, of interesting discussions descending into all-out flame-fests just because one person made a joke, and someone else didn't 'get it'.

2010-04-13 16:20:00

Author:
Aya042

Posts: 2870

That's terrible advice, Aya!

(See how easy it is!?)

2010-04-13 16:46:00

Author:
comphermc

Posts: 5338

Ahh but the smileys can sometimes compound the error. Am I using

to indicate that I'm being sarcastic, or because I'm mocking you? And is the wink there because i'm being friendly, or am I just a tad smug?

OMG I think the intornetz was a bad idea all along

2010-04-13 17:03:00

Author:
rtm223

Posts: 6497

So... Is this to do with the showcases etc.... or general chat as well?

Because if it's not general chat, i shall leave. If it is general chat, then i shall also leave, most of you are used to my negative attitude by now. SO yeah... um....

Edit:

Try to give their meaning the benefit of the doubt. Don't assume the worst. .

This. Don't do it. ALWAYS assume the worst, then you'll be pleasantly surprised.

2010-04-13 17:08:00

Author:
Unknown User

Ahh but the smileys can sometimes compound the error. Am I using

to indicate that I'm being sarcastic, or because I'm mocking you? And is the wink there because i'm being friendly, or am I just a tad smug?

OMG I think the intornetz was a bad idea all along

I agree.

I love LBPCentral!

(This is a joke)

2010-04-13 17:51:00

Author:
X-FROGBOY-X

Posts: 1800

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBeM31QV0CI Be kind, or this may happen to you.

2010-04-21 22:36:00

Author:
xX-EPIC_MEATWAD-Xx

Posts: 160

^ Nevermind this post. You get the idea though.

2010-04-21 22:39:00

Author:
xX-EPIC_MEATWAD-Xx

Posts: 160

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