Archive: 33 posts

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This is currently being entered into the Custom Switch Contest. This little slice of awesome was conceived overnight and made this morning. I am super proud of what I have done. It is a device that will work with other versions of itself and allow you to produce various effects. There is currently a demo level of a minor bit of what it could be used for published under my PSN LordCanti07. The name is the same as the title of this thread. I call it DILB for short. I wanted to add Object to the end at first but then the acronym would be DILBO and that sounded dirty, so I took out the Object part. Here are some pictures of it by itself, in a group, and manipulating some objects. So please tell me what you think. http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad61/brian_c_powers/DILB/DILBSolo.jpg http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad61/brian_c_powers/DILB/DILBWorkinginaGroup.jpg http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad61/brian_c_powers/DILB/DILBDemo1.jpg http://i922.photobucket.com/albums/ad61/brian_c_powers/DILB/DILBDemo2.jpg

2010-04-08 20:54:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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Looks complex, but what exactly does/can it do?

2010-04-08 21:04:00 Author: blootack Posts: 32

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In my demo level it lets you choose a prize box then give you a prize, but it can do infinitely more than that. It's is kinda like the D-Pad on a controller only reprogrammable. I'll try and make another demo level soon to show you more of what it can be used for. You should try the demo to see a minor example though.

2010-04-08 21:08:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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I made my own version of this little majigger. I first did a 3x3 one like your example, and then did a 6x6. Since there are only 8 key colors, my design can only be extended to 64 lights. Now, with my design, when you have lit up the furthest right light and try to go further right, it will loop around to the other side. You can call it a downside, but I prefer to call it a feature. At any rate, both designs (basically two versions of the same design) have been published into a new level called, "Two Dimensional Toggle." The advantage to my design is that it is much lower thermo. Your design looks to be more extend-able, but I have a hard time believing you'd need more than 64 lights. I'll be back in a bit with some pictures. Just a heads up... if you post logic stuffs on here, expect people to post alternate solutions. Edit: ...and I'm back. This design has a few things at work, but the crux of it all is incremental bolts, as popularized by Tamland. He has a thread around here somewhere, which I will search for in a moment. The idea of incremental bolts is that you can make motor bolts rotate by a set number of degrees per an input, if tweaked correctly. Thusly, you can make a wheel spin 1/3 of the way around per each activation with relative ease. In addition, you can stack incremental bolts to make them work in both directions. I used this to my advantage in the first design: http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/4666/aphoto1f.jpg Basically I recognized that an array of lights can behave as an ordered pair (think x and y in Cartesian coordinates from your geometry days). If I only want to change one of the variables at a time, I found that these wheels work quite nicely. Each "spot" on the right wheel has 3 key switches, and together they make up one column. Then, the wheel on the right toggles between three mag key colors, which allows the row to change. By changing either the column or row by one each time, it is able to cycle through the lights as directed. http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/1928/aphotoab.jpg The 6x6 array works in the exact same way, but there are now 6 of everything. I will just say that wiring and aligning all 36 of those mag key switches was a right pain. I would suggest just tinkering with the object than building it yourself (unless you want the wires to make you angry). The level is copyable. Tamland's Incremental Bolt Thread (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=19915-Incremental-Bolt)

2010-04-09 05:07:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I wouldn't have it any other way comphermc and I would like to see your thermo friendly one. Mine could also loop around it just requires some minor tweaking. PS Mine isn't just for boxes. I haven't had a chance to look at yours yet but mine can be a pathway that you move along with the arrows. And one of the reasons mine is thermo-heavy is because I was trying to make it somewhat user friendly. Double PS And also I understand that I probably don't know as much as you comphermc but have you made anything like this before, or would have though too without my example? Just wondering... not trying to be rude or anything. Tiple PS Alright I tried yours out, took me a while to find for some reason. The difference in thermo is the difference in power between our objects, yours is vastly underpowered compared to mine. Mine wasn't designed to be a move lights across a wall switch. To think of it in programming would be to think of Arrays of Functions. The Array being NxN in size where each individual space if capable of doing multiple things, in the case of my DILBs, they will be capable of doing anything in LBP. The red, green, and blue switches on the side are finalization inputs. Once you choose the block of code you wish to execute, a wide variety of things can happen with the red(one-shot), green(on), and blue(directional) switches. You can also perform a looparound like in your example. It's movement can be controlled as well to where you aren't allowed to move in certain directions if deemed necessary. Also there are switches for having each block of code highlighted producing both the on effect and directional effects wherever you may choose. You can also have it to where there choice isn't locked, to where they must wait a certain time or no time at all before making a nother choice. The vast amount of possibilities that my DILB presents to the world of LBP is on par with computer programming itself.

2010-04-09 05:17:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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Nope, I have never considered making an array before. Whenever I need to do something with a row of lights, I use motor bolts. Hence, when I saw an array, I reworked it through two motor bolts. I will tell you... I knew there was a solution with wheels, but it took me a while to arrive at it. It took me an hour to get the 3x3 version worked out, and then it was just wiring to get the 6x6 working (hint: wire it up before placing them on the wheel. I just put the key switch right over top of the light it controlled). I am a mathematics major, so I'm used to tackling new problems, but working with logic in LBP is so outside the norm of problems that I'd see. I love it, though. So, to answer your question, I hadn't ever done anything like that with two motor bolts. I think it's kind of neat, though.

2010-04-09 05:33:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I'm am gonna make a level right quick. BRB. Well it may not be quick, but I should be back soon.

2010-04-09 05:40:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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Well, I'm off to bed, so it will have to wait until tomorrow afternoon.

2010-04-09 05:45:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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lol ok night night Edit: *GRINS* I just found the thermo cheat. MUAHAHAHAH. I think I am gonna try to make a Little Big Computer using the DILBS and the Thermo Cheat.

2010-04-09 05:53:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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Edit: *GRINS* I just found the thermo cheat. MUAHAHAHAH. I think I am gonna try to make a Little Big Computer using the DILBS and the Thermo Cheat. It does have its limits... don't forget that. I put so much in a level that trying to enter it from play or create would crash the system.

2010-04-09 13:29:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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My brain has oficially just melted. I was meant to be taking a break from maths revision, but reading this is a lot worse I reckon I'll take a look at these gizmos in action before giving you a long list of stupid questions, though.

2010-04-09 13:58:00 Author: blootack Posts: 32

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Well, bloo the demo that I made isn't really showing these guys in action. It is just a minor minor minor demo of what they can do.

2010-04-09 14:12:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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Sound interesting, Brian your method definitely seems more user friendly but I wouldn't advise doing much with the thermo cheat, yes its powerful and i had a couple of thousand small blocks in one level at one time, it seriously takes it out on the system. however do try i would love to see this in action. not just controlling lights.

2010-04-09 14:27:00 Author: robotiod Posts: 2662

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Alright, I have improved upon my old design and made it extendable to an array of however many key switches you want. It is nothing like the previous design, and instead uses Dark Matter blockers. I was too lazy to integrate it into the level, so if you want to see it, copy the other one to your moon and fly to the right of the scoreboard. I have plopped it down there. Shown is a 10 x 10 array. No looping, though (too lazy to do that as well).

2010-04-09 20:18:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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That is impressive, though I don't know if you realize this or not, but currently how you have it is the exact same as your previous rotating gizmo as in what it can do. All your new one can do, currently, is light up a light. If you played my demo at least twice and chose two different prize boxes you would know that the prizes were differnt so mine has a prize for each select and mine can be locked in place. I want to keep pushing you on to see if you can develop a more thermo friendly version of mine but in order for me to push you along I have to tell you what mine can do that yours can't. I myself am trying to find a more thermo friendly version and I thought that I had one but it ended up not working and still costing more thermo. I really want us to get something more thermo friendly than mine, but can do what mine can. Here is a complete list of things mine can do: Movement -Move in 4 directions -Loop around or not loop around when it reaches the edge deemed by user -Not be able to move to certain blocks deemed by user -Be locked in place either permanently, temporarily, or momentarily with the time it is locked deemed by user "Hovering" -When "hovering" over a choice, triggers allow for on/off and directional changes. Selecting a Choice -When "hovering" and then activating an On switch that selects the "hovering" target, can produce either permanent, temporary, momentary, or a combination of permanent and temporary switches of either on/off, directional, one-shot effects. Editor Use -Can be tweaked to perform more or less duties than it was originally intended for without adverse affects. -Can be simply placed next to a copy of itself and work with that copy for the Movement part. Again I'm not trying to hate on your products I just would like to see a thermo friendly version of mine because that would melt my brain. And also mine isn't even as user friendly as I make it out to be, you kinda have to know whats going on in order to use it.

2010-04-09 21:58:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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This is currently being entered into the Custom Switch Contest. I thought the point of that contest was to make a generic switch to replace the standard two-way. There is currently a demo level of a minor bit of what it could be used for published under my PSN LordCanti07. I made my own version of this little majigger. I had a look at both versions, and for the particular application that's being demonstrated (a constrained four-input finite-state machine), comphy's is more efficient, but perhaps the idea is that your version has some other applications. Perhaps you could elaborate on what other practical applications this might have? This design has a few things at work, but the crux of it all is incremental bolts, as popularized by Tamland. I've always been slightly dubious of incremental bolts, as it's unclear as to whether the moving wheel will slowly go out of alignment if used a large number of times. I tend to use a 'guided' variation of these, using mag keys to ensure the moving wheel can only stop at fixed points, but if my fears about the unguided version are unjustified, I shall probably discontinue using them, since they're not as thermo-efficient. I put so much in a level that trying to enter it from play or create would crash the system. The only experiments I've done with this suggest that the materials thermo can easily be exceeded to the point where you're using every possible texture simultaneously, and the collected objects thermo (at least with mag keys, switches, and LEDs) can be easily exceeded to twice the usual amount, possibly more, but I only tested up to two times. The general impression I get is that the rendering is far more CPU-intensive than the simulation, so exceeding the thermo on parts which will ultimately be invisible in play mode, is much safer than trying to cram lots of visible objects into a small area of the level, which, frankly, causes problems even if you don't cheat the thermo.

2010-04-10 12:01:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Aya on the previous page at the bottom is a list of things mine can do.

2010-04-10 13:55:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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Aya on the previous page at the bottom is a list of things mine can do. I did see that, but I meant from a more practical POV - i.e. why would you want to use this in a level?

2010-04-10 14:06:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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I guess you wouldn't want to use this in a level. I'm going to use it to build a computer though.

2010-04-10 15:00:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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I'm going to use it to build a computer though. Okay. I'm not sure how this is of much use for that either, but feel free to prove me wrong. One warning about the thermo cheat: any objects emitted during gameplay will cause the thermo to rise during gameplay. If you exceed the limit then your emitters will cease functioning, so you might be better off going with a more traditional moving-connector-based logic system if you intend to use the cheat to put more switches in your level than is typically possible.

2010-04-10 15:14:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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*sigh* that was never mentioned in your thread. I guess I just fail at everything. If I could do that then this could make a computer. I have a question, do you think that compher's versions of mine can do what my demo did?

2010-04-10 15:29:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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The only way i can see cophermc's version working like yours would be adding a further and option, which thinking about it could possibly be added with a third wheel. But his second switch with the winches probably wouldn't be able to work like yours does, even if it does look cool.

2010-04-10 15:40:00 Author: robotiod Posts: 2662

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*sigh* that was never mentioned in your thread. Oops. I just tested this, and it turns out I was wrong. Looks like you can emit stuff for free in play mode, as long as the emitter was itself emitted from an emitter which was then re-tweaked to emit DM. Awesome! I have a question, do you think that compher's versions of mine can do what my demo did? From a behavioral POV, the only difference between yours and his first version is that his wraps at the edges, and yours doesn't. His second version would seem to exhibit identical behavior to yours, however.

2010-04-10 16:21:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Yep, my second one behaves the same as your first. You may complain that yours runs through an AND gate, but that is not a problem. You can, in fact, make an AND gate where one of the inputs is ON/OFF. It's a bit convoluted, but it will save you the hassle of doubling each and every one of your mag key switches. I will be back in mo' with a little explanation of how to do that.

2010-04-10 16:28:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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If you guys think they are the same then use yours to remake my demo level. I want to see this. It has to do the exact same things too. It has to make a different prize appear for each, it has to rotate the block that you chose, and it has to be able to have a final selection so you cant choose different prizes too. Do all this and then I will see that yours is better.

2010-04-10 16:36:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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Eh, it's clear that this is upsetting you, so I'll back off. I can do it, but I really can't be bothered. If the ends justify the means, I'm having a hard time finding a personal use out of all of this. More power to you, and good luck with the project. I just wanted to show an alternate solution.

2010-04-10 17:02:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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The thing that bothers me the most is that you think that you can use yours to do what my demo did. I just don't believe it and if you could prove it then I wouldn't be bothered anymore cuz you would be right at that point, but right now you think that your right and I think that I'm right. Please just remake my demo using yours to put my mind at ease.

2010-04-10 17:09:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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No. I'd rather explain it. It would take me much less time. Add a directional mag key switch alongside each ON/OFF mag key switch. There's the rotation you desire. Then, run everything through an AND gate for your emitters. Here is a picture of specialized AND gate... http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=15127&d=1270917963 ...that disables itself after a single application. Squares are key switches, circles are keys. The row of switches is controlled via the "DEVICE" so that only one can extend at a time. When you pull the lever off to the right of your device, it contracts the piston on the green (=dissolve) so that it brings the key within the range of only the extended switch. Also while contracted, the red switch is brought into range of the red key, which kills the dissolve. The teal key is then annihilated, so that no other switch can be activated. Change the dissolve to something else and it is no longer permanent. Content?

2010-04-10 17:50:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Please just remake my demo using yours to put my mind at ease. That's kinda asking a lot just to prove a point. At the end of the day, you can't really determine the best solution for implementing a particular application when it's so vague as to what that application actually is. Now, in your level, you mention using it to select a different prize, so if we assume that's the application, then there are far more user-friendly (and thermo-efficient) methods of doing this, such as:- Using a jetpack and a matrix of grab switches, like in "oLMCo's Music Box Palalce" by "oLMCo". Using a matrix of sticker switches, like in "The Creator's Menu" by "guneye". Without a clear definition of the intended application, the argument about thermo-efficiency is, by definition, academic, and arguably a waste of time.

2010-04-10 17:57:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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I give up. I am sorry I posted everything. You guys keep paying attention to one element at a time instead of all the elements together. I just can't handle it anymore. I will never post in this thread again so feel free to talk amongst yourselves. Also since it is blatently apparent that I am not going to win that contest for the custom switch then go ahead and take my entry out. Once I finish up with helping Viral Spawns completion then I will remove myself from these forums once again. People ask you guys for help because you have been here the longest, but I want to help people too. All that's happening in this thread though is you guys telling me how your things can do what mine can even though they can't yall only pay attention to one piece at a time ignoring the other pieces. And then pay attention to the next piece ignoring the previous. So you guys win, I give up and people will continue to only ask you guys for help. Good day.

2010-04-10 18:23:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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Just a heads up... if you post logic stuffs on here, expect people to post alternate solutions. I wouldn't have it any other way comphermc Hm. I'm confused. It seemed as though we were in agreement that considering alternate solutions was fine. But, it seems as if you are convinced that your way is the only way. If you don't want to believe that they can do the same thing, that's fine, but there's no sense stamping your feet over it. If you didn't want to consider other ways of doing it, and instead only want us to praise your design, you might want to make that clearer. Also, scan through the thread... I never said better, I said alternate. Hell, I didn't even say it was lower thermo - you came to that on your own. Does the existence of an alternate solution take anything away from your design? I don't think it does.

2010-04-10 18:51:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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OMG I really didn't want to post again, but I just had to. For some reason I just want to keep torturing myself. For some reason YOU think that what you made is an alternate solution to mine. I do welcome alternate solutions, I even asked that you make one that can do all the things mine can do but is more thermo friendly like 3 or so posts back. However, you guys keep saying that yours can already do that but there is no way in hell that it can. Look like I don't know how many posts back but it has a list of everything mine can do. There I asked if you could make something that could do that but more thermo friendly. You are saying that you are confused because I am getting angry at your alternate solution, but what I am getting angry at is that it isn't an alternate solution but you seem to think it is. I just don't know why I keep torturing myself repeating this over and over to you guys, but I can't take it anymore. I am done with you guys. Final Post on this thread I promise. If you would like to further contact me do it through PM, if I feel like responding.

2010-04-10 22:22:00 Author: Brian.C.Powers Posts: 54

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i have just thought of a version of this that seems to be more user freindly and effecient, the only problem is its inacurate. if i took a wheel and attached to a block of dark matter with a motor bolt set to whatever speed. then took 8 different coloured keys and put them all around the wheel, then put eight different key holes in the same place. the motor bolt could be activated by any switch witch could then activate the keys.. the keys could be used for something as big as making a song with a chorus that would play again when u wanted to activate it, (guitar hero on lbp) or u could make it for a scanner, it would activate different lights for different effects that would open the door.... this version is also takes up very little space.

2010-04-27 16:27:00 Author: shadowsythe456732 Posts: 176

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