LBP Showcase / Reviews / Recommendations #1
The MUPPET Level (Only on LBP1)
Archive: 143 posts
| http://lbp.me/v/wqfn73 http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/2/1403582//Statler and Waldorf.jpgMore hard than easy, The MUPPET Level is a 1P, Muppet inspired platformer, featuring abstract-flow and combo opportunities... text tolerance a must. Perform a quick LBP search on the word Muppet and you will soon find the Muppets are an undermined gold deposit! I can safely say now I have the best 'Muppet Level' on LBP. It's a looker with a sense of humor... Unfortunately you can't just run through it, though I'm sure you'll find your own reasons for disliking it. I am very open to F4F but do not want anyone to feel obligated. Suggestions are warranted and Welcomed. PSN: Gravel, LBPC: Gravel http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/2/1403582/the%20MUPPET%20LEVEL.jpg http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/2/1403582/bad%20tomatoes.jpg http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/2/1403582/some%20Kermit%20platforms.jpg http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/2/1403582/An%20other-worldly%20respite.jpg http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/2/1403582/Fozzie.jpg http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/2/1403582/Gonzo%20the%20Great.jpg http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/9/2/1403582/score%20one%20for%20Kermit%21.jpg | 2010-04-01 22:14:00 Author: Gravel  Posts: 1308 |
| wow, this looks amazing ! I recognize all the famous characters from the tv show, this must have taken you ages to create! Will play this tomorrow for sure, if it plays the way it looks it will get 5 stars from me :-) | 2010-04-01 22:51:00 Author: nightwing  Posts: 422 |
| Haha! That looks great! The characters looks so well made! I can't play it for now, but I put it in my "must play" list when I'll get my PS3 back! | 2010-04-01 23:01:00 Author: dajdaj03  Posts: 1486 |
| Lol- Just for the sake of disclosure it took a day over three weeks to make... It's pretty short due to the details but takes probably 20+minutes to play... longer if you stroll or have a poor sense of timing. The day I make a game that plays as well as it looks... not likely...but I like it and with today being Aprils' fools Day! Dadj- sorry your PS3's gone--You should know I played your Gypsy Circus level again about three and a half weeks ago on a fact finding mission... I believe blue denim was the answer! | 2010-04-01 23:56:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Dadj- sorry your PS3's gone--You should know I played your Gypsy Circus level again about three and a half weeks ago on a fact finding mission... I believe blue denim was the answer! Thanks... It's been already 3 weeks since I send it to Sony, so hopeffully I will get it back very soon  Yes I used the blue denim material for all the circus tent parts. It was the best material for that! /edit/  | 2010-04-02 00:31:00 Author: dajdaj03 Posts: 1486 |
| Well, I played this last night! A muppet-themed-hard-as-nails-hardcore-gamer-level. I can honestly say, I've NEVER seen that theme before!  Couple things: Somehow the first time I played the tuna can ended up not pushing all the way to the right, which made it impossible to drag the box, jump over it, and continue. When I started over it worked. At one point I got to the chicken with the egg part. There was a button I could press to lower a platform, but when I jumped from the button to the platform it seemed impossible to get on the platform. Maybe I was missing something? I think there were some areas where I had to pop to continue, but it wasn't clear - so I sat there for a while waiting for something to happen. One thing that I think would really improve the gameplay near the beginning is at the pencils/yo-yo area. The pencils were really hard enough already without having the yo-yo be lethal. It's up to you, but I found this part to be REALLY frustrating. Maybe if the yo-yo wasn't lethal, the pencils moved slightly faster, and you panned out a bit so you could see the bouncy-platforms below. And the part right after with the tilting platforms could also stand a better camera angle - move it out a bit so the player can see better whats happening. Loved the character models - fantastic graphics and some fun gameplay in there! | 2010-04-02 13:03:00 Author: CCubbage  Posts: 4430 |
| -You should make the opening joke skippable. I don't see the need for the line of gas that prevents this. -Why are there random bits of invisible gas everywhere? For example left of the tomato checkpoint. Or just right of the third tomato (opens the green path, i would replace with dissolve). I also died on the white switch due to invisible gas somewhere. -Magic mouths attempt to re-activate after you respawn (left of tomtatoes). -You can't advance on the red path if you pull the black/red light box to the left. -Second tomato magic mouth activates half way through a jump. -The xylophone noises on the tomatoes. I found this section hard enough with the bumpy terrain, bird #1 that gets in your way, unreliable bonces and bird #2 that squashes you. Combine that difficult gameplay with a constant annoying xylophone sound, throw in the "last life" alarm, and you've got a deal breaker. -No indication that the paper the pencils are writing on is dangerous. -Why are some checkpoints infinite and some not? Both are covered over by stickers so the player doesn't know. -I found the grab switch on the kermit sponge hard to see. Since the two sponges are exactly the same I didn't notice it the first time. Add a light maybe? -You can see a block of dark matter before the pencil chasm. -Top of the song chart, why invisible ground for player to walk on? -Didn't know where to go when I got the the last music note. Maybe add some point bubbles there. On my second replay, I died on the fozzie bear heads. -There is also invisible dark matter below the second one that you can stand on. The unskippable intro stopped me from replaying the level again. Sorry for ripping your hard to work to shreds, I just can't stand it when levels have great visuals but are let down by poor gameplay choices. The character designs are way cool (fozzie was my favourite I saw, rizzo was cool also, plus the old men), just tighten up the gameplay and you will have a nice level. | 2010-04-02 14:29:00 Author: midnight_heist  Posts: 2513 |
| Hey Mr Gravel sir! First off your graphics freaking amaze me. The characters were absolutely spot on perfect and drop dead charming. I see that you have improved the opening a bit which really helps, but at one point I accidentally bumped the small box with the red light off to the right and found I had to restart as I could not get it back over into position. I wasn't sure about the green and red buttons after the tomato. Sometimes if I hit the green and decide to hit the red, I die for some reason. Is that on purpose as it seemed it was gas that got me? The pencil part is freakin brilliant.. I am dumbstruck at how awesome those things look. However like ccubbage, I would like to see a bit more of the scene to be able to cross effectively. Maybe as he suggests or possibly if the yo yo wasn't as fast if you keep it lethal? One point is that seems a bit unfair is dying on the paper. Once you die you realize it is deadly, but it might be more fair if you could tell it is deadly or there was a "note". Ha! a note on paper? wocka wocka wocka! I was able to get to the next part finally thanks to unlimited portals!! However the next section has me stuck. I was finally able to get up above to move the movie scene thingy, but I ran out of lives. Possibly an unlimited portal there? Also why is there a jetpack underneath? If it is to save you, the chain isn't long enough to get back on top. At least in the 50 times I ended up with it I was never successful.  I will give it another bunch of tries later today, but this is possibly your best defined level to date while still capturing your zeal for open spaced levels. Seriously though, this thing is fun for sure. I just wish my sack skills were more up to the challenge!!! | 2010-04-02 14:32:00 Author: jwwphotos  Posts: 11383 |
| Well, I played this last night! A Muppet-themed-hard-as-nails-hardcore-gamer-level. I can honestly say, I've NEVER seen that theme before! Couple things: Somehow the first time I played the tuna can ended up not pushing all the way to the right, which made it impossible to drag the box, jump over it, and continue. When I started over it worked. At one point I got to the chicken with the egg part. There was a button I could press to lower a platform, but when I jumped from the button to the platform it seemed impossible to get on the platform. Maybe I was missing something? I think there were some areas where I had to pop to continue, but it wasn't clear - so I sat there for a while waiting for something to happen. One thing that I think would really improve the gameplay near the beginning is at the pencils/yo-yo area. The pencils were really hard enough already without having the yo-yo be lethal. It's up to you, but I found this part to be REALLY frustrating. Maybe if the yo-yo wasn't lethal, the pencils moved slightly faster, and you panned out a bit so you could see the bouncy-platforms below. And the part right after with the tilting platforms could also stand a better camera angle - move it out a bit so the player can see better whats happening. Loved the character models - fantastic graphics and some fun gameplay in there! I totally agree with you about the pencils and yo-yo area! I have been very busy since Gravel released this and haven't had a chance to play this until last night. I got home from work, opened an adult beverage, turned on my PS3 and settled in to play this level. A half hour later (in utter frustration) I turned off my PS3 and watched the news. I am not one who gives up easily so...after the news I turned my PS3 back on to try again. I Still was unable to get through the pencil section. On the few occasions that I got past the pencils I couldn't figure out what to do at the Scene Marker and kept dying. I have had a few rough days at work so I will blame that for my lack of platforming skill, and exasperating lack of patients. I will try again this evening when I get home from work...but Gravel for the love of God please reduce the difficulty of this first section...or not! (Your level, your choice!) I just think it will be a BIG shame that more people wont get a look at some of the Wonderful and artistic things you have created in here. I grew up watching the Muppet's, so for me this is a walk down memory lane! (I hate to admit that!) You really know how to make it rough Gravel!  | 2010-04-02 15:51:00 Author: AJnKnox  Posts: 518 |
| Do I hear of tomatoes?? I must play it! | 2010-04-02 16:43:00 Author: KQuinn94Z  Posts: 1758 |
| "adult beverage" haha, that made me laugh. pointless post i know, just funny as hell | 2010-04-02 16:54:00 Author: DarkSeraphim666  Posts: 96 |
| If this is you ripping me a new one I say keep bringing it... I prefer this over my last showcase which got: 2, count it 2 responses. So first-off, let me seriously thank you for the play! I want you to know I mean it! I know how valuable everyones time can be. So I need to address your first point right off the bat because it coloured everything else you said... and I'm about to get a little sarcastic. "Make the first joke skippable..." I want to say, "What part of 'text tolerant' do you not understand?" but that would be rude-- what I will say is-- it is. Sad but true! Next time after the possible 1400 point combo that starts, just drop down when you get to the "L" --- evator, (huhhhh? You see how deep I think things... there is no hap-hazzard hazards.) You're getting your monies-worth... one sticker, one mouth, four corners, an object all over-heat this level. Could it be better? you bet, and this thread and your thoughts may just improve it... but it is hardly ripe with poor gameplay choices. The gas to the left of "L" is the level boundary. The gas around "The muppet level" is purposeful, as it makes you run the combo... Now, there is gas right after the third (tomato, JWW). It could seem random as it is to prevent players from falling into that bright red corridor... which should only be accessible through the last tomatoes' mouth (it's just a hefty achievement bonus for a tough act.) I am open to suggestions here! If i can manage the dissolve midnight-- you got it! Also there is one additional secret/act in the tomatoes section. Oh and the tomatoes are rotten--remember! there hops can be lethal but they are not random thus patterned and reliable. The switch. Rizzo asks? GASSY GREEN or Tomato red? If you pick the green button what do you think is gonna happen? There is one piece of visible dark matter in the level. I just couldn't shrink it down any farther without overheating the level. Muppets are loud annoying entities. Expousure is best when done in limited intervals! Any guest star on the muppet show would tell you that! It's just they're so darn cute. Anyway, xylophones, scratching and scribbling, claxons, ticking time bombs, applause and laughter are all commonplace sounds associated with these creatures in this level. So yes, the design is such to put you on edge... again, you may not like it- but- It is thought-through, a conscious decision in creating an experience. The crate going to the left. Deal breaker! You got me. I'm open to suggestions? with no thermo. The pencil chasm. If I didn't kill you there-- I'm not sure the average gamer would realize the checkpoint lowers and raises by proximity-- thus never getting to the button to initiate the obstacle? There's alot going on in that scene. I think its called 'hectic' in the tag world. Another apt description of the muppets themselves. But you are right--again, I'm open. Checkpoints. I always start with ordinary check points. Then as the level takes shape I change-out check points as I think are needed. I dislike infinites but now use them at times to appease players. I can think of no reason why it should be mandatory to use only one standard type... Mm sure didn't. And I sure remember dying and restarting their levels often enough... why shouldn't a community level be given the same amount of respect. Afterall, Mm gets paid... I do not. Community levels should be given more respect, and leeway. My 'Art' is A+. The level is not. I get that! I'm trying to give you an experience. You're trying to help me shape it. It's win win. | 2010-04-02 17:00:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Sorry but after dying about 100 times at the pencils I just couldn't take any more. I'm pretty good at platforming too but that's simply far too difficult. I used to love the Muppets but I think you just put me off them for life. | 2010-04-02 17:34:00 Author: mistervista  Posts: 2210 |
One word : FRUSTRATING !  Fortunately, I know many other words  I liked it alot, your characters were perfect (especially the two granpas ), but I found it a bit hard and frustating. The part with the tomatoes, then the pencils.The next part was okay, but I died whereas I hadn't any life left Anyway, I rated it 4 :star: and I fav'd it too ^^ | 2010-04-02 17:50:00 Author: Oddmania  Posts: 1305 |
| Jww-Thank you for focusing on what's best about the level without ignoring what you didn't like... you are a gentleman. Apparently all of your timing was alotted to "comedic" thus explaining how your cup runeth over in that department. DarkSeraphim-- it's not a waste! If I should happen to reach 'cool levels' by one post, let me thank you now! 'zonequinn- play with my tomatoes now! AJ- c'mon dude! Those pencils are in your head man! (Ever since that night you and xeno went all leap-happy). You know i think the world of you... but, you can do it. I am going to look into ways to make it easier but there is a huge difference in what Ccubbage said, having completed the level... and you quoting him. Joey made it across in relatively short order... (and I took a party of four through... Now that is close to impossible!) STILL NOTE TAKEN: ADDRESS PENCILS. Mr. Vista- Thank you for the play. I nearly fell off my chair laughing at your comment... I hope I'm not down to one star...yet! The pencils are tough if you stick to grabbing and hanging off the right side of the middle one thus avioding the YO-YO... The purple lit jumppad normally will spring you all the way to the end of the obstacle... I put that in there for people who couldn't handle just using the erasers... and I think maybe in the process just mucked it up! With that said the "Muppet Level Movie Clappers" are hard too! I apolgise mr vista. Please don't hold it against the muppets... perhaps you'll find The Muppet Level: THE LABS more to your liking. Oddmania- Hi! Thank you for your time and patience... hopefully I'll find a way to balance the level slightly more... still I must admit you scared me when you said, you know a lot more words... I started to stop, drop 'n' roll... thankfully the flaming never came. final word. Get to middle pencil. Hang off right side. bounce on purple lit jump pad (light is visible-pad is not). obstacle traversed. Just be sure to do it in the alotted time... or you're doing it again. Listen for the siren! No siren/claxon/warning sound means you need to restart the clock. EDIT: I need to begin cooking a rather large meal... so I'll not be around to absorb the abuse, (LOL) I really appreciate everyones' time and efforts... Even your disdain, hatred and frustration is welcomed over your silence... That was lonely, so thank you again! We'll re-commence the flogging after midnight or so my time! All Insights welcomed! | 2010-04-02 18:14:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| AJ- c'mon dude! Those pencils are in your head man! (Ever since that night you and xeno went all leap-happy). You know i think the world of you... but, you can do it. I am going to look into ways to make it easier but there is a huge difference in what Ccubbage said, having completed the level... and you quoting him. Joey made it across in relatively short order... (and I took a party of four through... Now that is close to impossible!) STILL NOTE TAKEN: ADDRESS PENCILS. OK, OK wait a minuite...I think I put in all the necessary and required precursors before I stated my opinion. I really don't understand why Ccubbage's completing the level gives his statement anymore validity than my agreeing with him and not completing it. If we both had the same thoughts then why shouldn't I quote him? With that said...I'm sure I made it quite clear when getting the 'preview' that: A. It was a master work as far as your characters and artistic quality were concerned. B. Was going to be too hard for most to complete. Your response (if I remember correctly) was: I don't mind if only a 'select' (IE; good players) group can finish it. I do understand your feelings here...I'm not picking on you in any way! I myself unfortunately have the same ability to make an obstacle too hard. I don't really know it at the time cuz I am replaying it so much I know all the ins and outs and know how to approach said obstacle. My problem was two fold; 1.I had just gotten home after a couple of tough days at work. 2. I wasn't making it to the other side fast enough to continue. Yes I heard the counter, but because I couldn't see what I had activated I didn't know why I needed to rush. Since this is the second 'challenge' of the level did it really need to be so hard. What happened to 'ramping' up the difficulty. Maybe you think I am bashing you??? You shouldn't, cuz I'm not! Your right. I probably can do it, but yesterday I couldn't. I must admit to being very confused by your reaction to my feedback...Glad you found mistervista's comments funny...and mine not so. The truth is as I said before...I would love that more people get to enjoy the awesome job you have done with your imagination and skillful and artistic abilities. Left as is it will be Unfortunately poorly rated and rarely played I fear please don't take offense as none of this is a slap in the face from me. I am only stating my opinion, take it for what little it's worth...I rated it 5 stars with a hectic tag | 2010-04-02 19:19:00 Author: AJnKnox Posts: 518 |
| Gravel, haha, no, I wasn't talking about synonyms for frustrating :hero: I meant your level is far, far, far from being just frustrating. It's neat, clever, anti-noobish and, somehow, with a very pleasant atmosphere ^^ I don't think its difficulty is bad. It would be more boring if you made it easier Anyway, I must say I've been really impressed by the characters you made, especially Statler and Waldorf :eek: I know now that we can do whatever we like in LBP. This kind of level reminds me why I'm keen on playing this game (arggh, forgive my bad English please...) | 2010-04-02 19:56:00 Author: Oddmania Posts: 1305 |
| I must play this level, it looks very well made, unfortunately I am not home but will be on sunday but I will definitly check it out when I can | 2010-04-02 20:10:00 Author: Stunkel Posts: 120 |
| Oh awesome, I love any level with Muppets in them. | 2010-04-03 13:59:00 Author: X-FROGBOY-X  Posts: 1800 |
| Wow!!! I finally got through this madcap Muppet adventure!!! I have to say, simply amazing stuff in there. Not sure if you tweaked it or I just finally grew that much in sackdom!! Beautiful cannot capture how wonderful the eye candy in this level. I bow to your excellence. Still harder than heck and could stand a bit of camera and visual queue tweaking, but wow.. you have come a long way my friend. Wonderful wonderful wonderful5 stars and a glorious living beating heart. | 2010-04-03 23:18:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| Oh and forgot to mention, I hit the high score! Ooops!! So sorry for the double post! :blush: | 2010-04-04 01:59:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| Wahoo! Second place! I think. Based on the scoreboard, I was the first to finish it besides Gravel. Don't know where you went, there Jww. But anyways, the visuals were top notch. The pencil section seemed quite reasonable. Heck, I got it first time on my first play-through. I had to go again after losing all lives in the section just after that. The only part of the level that was super-hard to figure out was the flea circus. I loved that part, but the whole chicken/egg part was weird. In fact, I think a platform may have broken and I just had to do some trickery to finish. Or... maybe it was all part of the plan?? Anyways, I gave it 5 stars because it looked awesome and refused to conform. | 2010-04-04 03:06:00 Author: comphermc  Posts: 5338 |
| Not to worry, I am there. You need to wait a bit. Seems I wasn't listed a bit ago when I looked, but after quitting the game and coming back on I was again shown in 1st place over ccubbage, gravel, you and Joey. The platform is supposed to break it seems and yup.. have to find another way over. | 2010-04-04 03:17:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| Hey gravel, I played this one today. I must say I really enjoyed it. Although I must admit I didn't finish it yet. I got stuck by the chicken part. Where you go to the cannon up top. I got to the part where it says hang on. I was trying to figure what to do next, but ran out of lives. I will be back to finish though, as I was really enjoying the level. I think the looks and the platforming are great. Nice work!! I'll be back. | 2010-04-04 13:57:00 Author: smasher  Posts: 641 |
| Gravel, I would like to say how much I enjoyed playing your level, I would like to say that but since I didn't manage to get past the tomatoes, don't laugh, I will settle for telling you that you are the best creator of characters I have ever seen. Statler and Waldorf were so true to their form I couldn't believe it. One day, when I learn better gaming skills, I will get through this and see for myself the rest of the beauty unfold before me. I hope that is enough for the moment. Icey | 2010-04-04 14:14:00 Author: IceMaiden  Posts: 1057 |
| Hey Gravel, as I was with Icey when we attempted to play your level, please 'don't laugh' at me either! Statler and Waldorf looked brilliant and from the above pictures you have posted, all the other characters look great also. Whether I ever get to see them in your level for myself is another matter!! If I ever do, I'll come back here and let you know! | 2010-04-04 14:27:00 Author: mrsvista  Posts: 755 |
| First off, one word; Thanks! My last level died such a sad lonely death -- this is really a joy! I've been trying to sit back and take it all in because I am so very happy right now...(and that goes for all of you who even actively Hate it) I need to hear from you too. Do mean one more additional favour... if your ever in the level showcase and you see a thread with one or two replies... reach out to that creator... afterall, we are a comm'unity'. OK PSA done. J-Dub, best double post ever! Comph, thanks... I was afraid you might be avoiding me, your comments mean the world coming from the atmoshpheres you've been orbiting recently... (ie in Gravel-speak your pie in the sky!) Your work in Morgana's level is brain defying! Icey- I'm sorry, you can spin those wonderful comments all you want-- me believing them, another story all together. Speaking of all together, I'm gonna make a VISTA EDITION so we can all tour it together! I really am torn, I like harder levels, but am not sure how to proceed, it guts me that you, Aj, and Mr. Vista find it so frustrating. (So begins the think tank). Smasher-thanks for the kindness and friendship... I make great big funny faces... your paint factory is a very cool level! https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=24535-LBP-Paint-Factory&highlight=smasher Frogboy and Stunkel- Here's hoping I meet your expectations... please let me know, because I willing to make changes if it makes sense... If you like unique vision... check-out trip's "Dimension Warp" A definite cool level. https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=24775-Dimension-Warp All of these plugs are completely unsolicited. Some final thoughts-- I have no idea what the high score is on this right now but it can score pretty high like 24k I think perhaps I'll post a pts/breakdown... The most plays I've ever garnered is 245. Hardly earth-shattering. I could really use any and all help in surpassing that meager number... I really think this level deserves to be at least seen by a larger slice of the community, so thank you again LBPC! for helping me... Finally, I don't pander, but I only have 34 creator hearts, and that is fine! really it is. But if you enjoy--please tell someone else about it and if you do heart creators, by all means please consider me... Have a great weekend gadders! | 2010-04-04 14:53:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Comph, thanks... I was afraid you might be avoiding me, your comments mean the world coming from the atmoshpheres you've been orbiting recently... (ie in Gravel-speak your pie in the sky!) Your work in Morgana's level is brain defying! Firstly, thanks. Secondly, thanks! Thirdly, I don't avoid on purpose. I'm a creator first. A creator second. ...and a player third. I rarely get out and play others' levels when I should. If you catch me online and send a message, odds are I am in the zone and don't want to be bothered... then I forget about the message, etc... If you send me a message on here, however, I will be more likely to boot up my PS3 with the sole intent of checking out the level. I'm odd, I know. | 2010-04-04 19:14:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338 |
| Thanks for brining this to my attention! ^_^ I'll give it a try. | 2010-04-04 20:38:00 Author: Unknown User  |
| Ok, finally got around to playing it, the Muppets were superbly ingeniously awesomely cool looking. The level was tough like you said, but I didn't finish, I got near the end of the flea circus though, so I still got a good taste of the level. Also, I think I might have found a glitch, the part with the chicken and the egg, I moved the egg, lowered the platform onto the egg, and it broke. I don't know if you need the egg to complete that part, but if you do, you could elimanate that glitch by making a new egg spawn if it breaks, but you may not be able to fit an extra emitter in because of the meter. :star::star::star::star::star: and a heart. | 2010-04-04 20:45:00 Author: X-FROGBOY-X Posts: 1800 |
| Do I hear of tomatoes?? I must play it! Do i hear people unable to pass it?? I must play it! Sir i will accept your challenge, and ace this level. | 2010-04-04 21:11:00 Author: Silverleon  Posts: 6707 |
| A Vista/Icey Edition would be much appreciated Gravel. We would all really love to see the level right through to the scoreboard. I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I don't enjoy hard levels. I think if you created an easier version, then your plays would definately go up quite a bit. It is such a shame that only a small amount of people are getting to see all your wonderful characters, that I'm sure you have spent hours making. | 2010-04-04 21:13:00 Author: mrsvista Posts: 755 |
| Well I played it, and quite after playing a 2nd time. 1st time the L lowered to the levels first cp. I walked left to see what was left and mysteriously died from gas. So I restarted since that messed up my score. Then further in I landed on a platform that bounced me into unseen death, therefor I could not use 'skill' to avoid it. If a level is not purely skill based I generally won't play it. The level isn't hard, but more than once I was killed by something unseen. I typically do not mess with levels that have 'hidden' deaths. Hard to see is fine, but hidden no. Anyways, very nice theme, visually a nice level. But because of the hidden factor I gave 3 stars. I wanted to give 5, but that is a major problem. 3 seemed fair. EDIT: I went back and gave it 4 stars. Figured 3 might of been too harsh considering the invisible deaths were the only issue in an otherwise great level. | 2010-04-04 21:27:00 Author: Unknown User |
| Hey Gravel, I tried this again, and finished it this time. Just have to say again, that it was a little difficult, but well worth the effort you have to put fourth to finish it. Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I thought a lot of the dialog was hilarious also. Awesome work!!! | 2010-04-05 00:44:00 Author: smasher Posts: 641 |
| Ok finally got a chance to post! So where to start? Your craftsmanship of characters and mastery over the corner editing tool is obvious to anyone who's played your work before but this one goes above and beyond cool. The title alone is jaw dropping Gravel and I love the color and lights you've got on it. You did a masterful job with Waldorf & Stadler and their dialogue is laugh out loud funny, Fozzie and Gonzo and Camillia gosh, you blow my mind character after character! The perspective on the circus tent in really excellent and I don't think a lot of creators have figured out you can use 2d drawing techniques to get some excellent effects like that in LBP. So you know how I feel about the gameplay part. It's much more linear and understandable than some of your other levels and I can actually make it through this one! Huzzah! The gas you can't see is annoying but not enough to keep me from replaying this beauty. I just have to set aside about an hour to get through it. 5 stars and hearted from me. Loving the level even if it's dang tough Gravel. | 2010-04-05 18:10:00 Author: Morgana25  Posts: 5983 |
| HI HO. I have nothing much to add to what everyone else is saying, other than I gave up after about forty deaths on the pencils, sorry. Beautiful looking Characters btw! | 2010-04-05 18:21:00 Author: Shade_seeker  Posts: 328 |
| *dons Zwollie costume and clears throat* It's the Muppet Show with our very special guest star, GRAVEL! Yay! *It's time to play the music* *It's time to light the lights* *It's time to meet the Muppets on the Muppet Show tonight!* *It's time to put on make-up* *It's time to dress up right* *It's time to raise the curtain on the Muppet Show tonight* Waldorf: *Why do we always come here?* Statler: *I guess we'll never know* Waldorf: *It's like a kind of torture--* Both: *To have to watch the show!* *trumpet solo* *And now let's get things started!* Audience: *Why don't you get things started?* *It's time to get things started on the most sensational, inspirational, celebration-al, Muppet-tation-al* *This Is What We Call The Muppet Shooowwww* *blows on trumpet and passes out* *wakes up* Awesome stuff, man. Keep it up | 2010-04-05 18:41:00 Author: claptonfann  Posts: 228 |
| Frogboy- First off I'm thrilled people are getting to the 'big top'. That i didn't see the possibility of crushing the egg only goes to show my limitations as a creator. i will be looking to see if I can fit an emitter with Camilla (the chicken) to lay additional eggs. I think I should be able as I left enough room to have Dr. Honeydew & Beaker deposit a key for, "THE LABS" upon its creation. I'm thinking it should be addressed and you are now the second person to bring it to my attention... Thank you I will see what I can do. Shade_Seeker-Thanks for the play good luck with your Tankinator! Sexnstilletos- I still feel like I let you down, I'm a bad-boy who needs a visit from the 'Easter Bunny'. won't you please come back? Seriously, I'll keep your suggestion in mind and thank you again. Morgana- Thank you for your comments. I must admit, I myself was very happy with the results of the '2D hand-drawn Background'. Don't recall seeing it used before... or at least very often or to this extent. But now that you noted it... [sticks chest out] Reasonably sure you will be seeing it from me again though! I am still looking for specific suggestions to improve this level--currently I am most interested in the final area, Gonzo's section. it appears many players are now dying in this final section. That to me is unacceptable, if you got that far you deserve to finish! In a round about way Midnight Heist suggested Infinite checkpoints throughout... i sometimes think no consequence allows the player to turn off his brain. What do you think? | 2010-04-05 18:59:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| In a round about way Midnight Heist suggested Infinite checkpoints throughout... i sometimes think no consequence allows the player to turn off his brain. What do you think? In an easy/moderate level I'd tend to agree but what you've got I think would benefit from the player knowing they can still keep trying until they get it right or their thumbs go numb. I'd say do it. | 2010-04-05 19:04:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983 |
| I am still looking for specific suggestions to improve this level--currently I am most interested in the final area, Gonzo's section. it appears many players are now dying in this final section. That to me is unacceptable, if you got that far you deserve to finish! In a round about way Midnight Heist suggested Infinite checkpoints throughout... i sometimes think no consequence allows the player to turn off his brain. What do you think? I got to this part on my last try, but died yet again Please 'Help a brother out!' and give me an infinite cp. | 2010-04-05 19:18:00 Author: AJnKnox Posts: 518 |
| If you were going to add "just one" I would vote on having it on top high wire to the far left above Gonzo with the Star and bubbles above. I got horribly lucky in that in one of my bad passes, I tripped the portal near the chicken and other canon. Thankfully I did as I had used up all the turns in the one that was there. Imagine having to start from there 10 times to make it BACK to that point to be able to get the next shot and making it past the broken scaffold etc... However, I see nothing wrong with adding more seeing how some of the drops like onto Wonka Wonka Wonka are basically leap of faiths. | 2010-04-05 19:19:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| I am still looking for specific suggestions to improve this level--currently I am most interested in the final area, Gonzo's section. it appears many players are now dying in this final section. That to me is unacceptable, if you got that far you deserve to finish! In a round about way Midnight Heist suggested Infinite checkpoints throughout... i sometimes think no consequence allows the player to turn off his brain. What do you think? I agree with Morgana - in a level where each section is a difficult challenge, and a decent score is also a goal - there's no reason not to have infinite checkpoints. Also, with the pencil section I have a couple suggestions: Maybe move the camera out so the player can see the "whole" picture before they start Speed the movement of the pencils. You'd be surprised out faster fluid movement in an obstacle can REALLY kick up fun. Even if you die a few times, if a challenge feels quick people will have fun doing it. If you really want to keep a lethal yoyo in there, maybe make it more of a pattern. For instance, move left.... drop.... move right.... drop. When you create a pattern with the movement of a lethal object, the player feels like they can study the movements and get through without dying. As others have said, the character models and humor in this one are top knotch. If you can keep the difficulty, make a few areas a bit more clear, and get the movement of some of the obstacles going a bit more you've got a real winner here. Don't give up on it - get those areas tweaked. I still think you should do the same for the ghostbusters level and re-release it. That was another one that was a fantastic concept, great graphics, and fun gameplay that needed toning down in a few areas to hit the sweet spot. | 2010-04-05 19:23:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430 |
| ...in my own thread so soon but would like to address just a little something Claptonfan brought up. There are times it easy to throw accolades around... especially on a forum like this. It goes without saying there are creators on this site who weekly, if not daily force me to create bigger and better things... and I really am a questionable creator of note, so I am sure it is the same for all of us... from the top right on down. Some of you I have had the opportunity, sack to sack, to express my Love... unfortunately for all the others, that chance may never arrive but it doesn't make it any less true. This level would not exist if not for my dearly departed sack friend Zwollie... (he' not dead or anything- just re-discovered his world again outside of the CraftEarth, and seemingly happier for it) Zwol- would send me alot of youtube links, and he even said goodbye to me via a Muppet song. There is no denying I openly miss him and in some very weird way this level is some sort of tribute to him (it is the only way I can explain [for me] the short build time...) not to lure him back in any way, but just to say thanks... for getting me. That can be rare when you're a little left of center like me. So Claptonfann thanks for donning the costume and singing cause there really hasn't been enough of that around this place lately. I got to go now, i hope you continue to enjoy the level. Gravel | 2010-04-05 19:29:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| I would suggest you put your characters in a simple gallery level for people to look at. Otherwise I for one will never get to see them. Even putting infinite checkpoints wouldn't help me. It's just way too difficult and frustrating. I can honestly never understand anyone who makes something really detailed and artistic but then puts it in a level that's so hard 90% of players will never see it. I just cannot see the logic in that sorry. If I had made some awesome characters as it seems you have I would want people to see them. And if Morgana says it's hard then hardly anyone is going to finish it because horrendously difficult levels are the only one's Morgana Spotlights. | 2010-04-05 20:05:00 Author: mistervista Posts: 2210 |
| Awww - where's the love MrV? Were Icey's levels hard? | 2010-04-05 21:37:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983 |
| Can I just say, I have come to love reading Mr. Vistas' posts... I may not always agree with him but they make me laugh-- I just love it! Back when we all played nice in the character competitions, I was a real supporter of gathering these things up... Now perhaps your right Mr.V, My moon is getting a little cluttered and I do have a nice facade... Just thought it might be a little to egotistical... I will very soon begin work on this... gallery level. It will be simple, ok maybe a little tricky maybe... [here we go again!] I got it! Simple, but the prizes will be... I've decided, Unlimited checkpoints it is... Thank You Midnight, Ccubb, Aj, JWW, and Morgana. I will update when it is complete. | 2010-04-05 22:46:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| A gallery level of your characters would be brilliant Gravel. No 'tricky' business please, we're not even bothered about prizes, just characters will do nicely! | 2010-04-05 22:56:00 Author: mrsvista Posts: 755 |
| This level is incredible Gravel. I love it. But sadly, I do worse with every play...maybe my next attempt will be successful. Your creations are masterful as always, and your game play is some of the most challenging out there...which I enjoy . My favorite part is the flying trapeze section, where I met my untimely demise. But I died laughing...or was that anguish that sounded like laughter. I haven't hit the scoreboard yet, but I will, I will I say, and I'll be in the top 10...maybe...I hope. Rick | 2010-04-06 03:37:00 Author: RickRock_777  Posts: 1567 |
| Apologies for the sort feedback, however my time in the level was short In the few minutes that I was able to play the level, I was met with the things I expect in a Gravel level: Gorgeous character designs, some tricky platforming, and some witty bits. I was able to reach the movie clappers on my first try, however I did not manage to make the jump up to the second clapper after it had moved, and had to restart the level. My PS3 then decided it was a good time to take a nap, and promptly froze, and told me it wasn't starting up again anytime soon. As I have been unable to wake it from its slumber, I decided that I might as well let it sleep in, and post what feedback I had. So in short (pardon the pun): Lovely design, infinite checkpoints sound good to me, and I am TERRIBLY upset that I missed out on the humor to come If I end up getting to play more, i'll leave more | 2010-04-06 03:52:00 Author: Burnvictim42  Posts: 3322 |
| The title/intro with the two old muppets was great...so was fozzy...but I have to agree with mistervista that it's a shame I can't see the rest of your characters. I also got stuck right after the pencils at the director's slate. Not sure how to get to that check point...trying to get there flying from the pencils you smack into a wall. Hoping on the checkered columns didn't get me anywhere either. Dunno, maybe I'm missing the obvious...I did get a good photo standing on the bear's arm. Also give some serious thought to easing up on the gas hazzards, many times they aren't visible and you get killed just trying to figure out where to go next...If only your talents could be harnessed for good... | 2010-04-06 04:29:00 Author: fullofwin  Posts: 1214 |
| If only your talents could be harnessed for good... ...that's not the first time I've heard that! Ok. Some updates. I've fit under the wire. * Camilla's egg is now being emitted into the level. So you'll be able to smash 5 eggs now before you smash your controller. ( ( ( Although I assure you smashing eggs is not an objective.) ) ) * While not all, 90% of all checkpoints are now of the infinity variety. ( ( (So if your still trying--I'm not gonna hold you back--hopefully this should encourage some to carry forth.) ) ) * Camera was pulled out in the pencil area and slightly on the movie clapper section. ( ( ( Hopefully allowing the player more visual information to mistime jumps.) ) ) * A visible piece of dark matter was dealt with. * Crazy Harry's detonation was made 100% reliable. * The pencils movements were noticeable sped-up. ( ( ( Now on the surface this sounds like I just made an already hard section harder, not so... If you die often, you'll get more chances per your 60 seconds. If your hanging over the side of a pencil... the new speed may allow you to scramble back on top. With the added speed the pencil tops now fling you faster and farther... increasing the likely hood you may out of sheer dumb luck cross the chasm. Finally, in speeding up the pencils you are less likely to come in contact with the deadly yo-yo on the middle pencil crossing the chasm. ) ) ) * Pencil movements were tweaked in an attempt to lessen cheap squished deaths on the first pencil. So, if there's a next batch of players, we'll see if that helps. FullofWin- Your time had elapsed! When within the time frame the pillars before the klackers will move up and down as you approach-- by proximity switch. Those pillars will have to be moving to make that jump--get the most lift for your money! remember you have 60 seconds before you are forced to reset blue button... if you're not hearing that claxon... hit the button. Scoring: My top score on my moon 25k. Here's how: LOGO- (1400) pt combo + (50) 1 prize bubble(pb) + (40) on the "L"evator = 1490 Bad Tomatoes & Fruit flies- (100) 2pb + Secret #1 (character 4x) approx (650) + Secret #2(action approx. 3,300pts) = 5540 "A Ghost Writer!"- 2pb (100) = 5640 The MUPPET Level Clappers- 3pb (150) + (3x) multiplier + misc pts. = 6640 Manhatten Melodies- 1pb (50) = 6690 "The half-way point"- (50) = 7040 "Creator's Note"- (120) = 7160 Fozzie- succession of (2x) + (3x) multipliers + 1pb (50) = 9160 An other-worldy vista...- secret combo approx (1000) + 1pb (50) = 10210 TA-DAA! (The reveal)- 11pb (550) + secret#1 (an action)huge 14x (6700) + secret #2 (character) (3300) + misc bubbles + ending level bonus (3x) (7x) = 25k | 2010-04-06 09:51:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Ahhh Gravel, if only I could understand a word you are talking about! I intend to have another look at this challenge later, armed with my son and a handkerchief to bite on if only to stop myself from wailing like a banshee! I may not say nice things about it this time, since you don't believe a word I say.......... Icey | 2010-04-06 11:34:00 Author: IceMaiden Posts: 1057 |
| Can I just say, I have come to love reading Mr. Vistas' posts... I may not always agree with him but they make me laugh-- I just love it! Thanks Gravel. I aim to please | 2010-04-06 12:27:00 Author: mistervista Posts: 2210 |
| Mmmmm.... I'll play it again tonight. The pencil area sounds more fun already! | 2010-04-06 13:03:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430 |
| > Your time had elapsed! Button/claxon/time limit?!? Guess I missed that button entirely, I assume it's near the starting check point? I'll give it another go tonight. I thought the pencils were great btw, best use of that Valentines' material I've seen (eraser). I usually got across by going jump-pad, fozzie, jump-pad and avoided the erasers/death yo-yo entirely...the vertical spot-light helps you find the 2nd jump pad...just sometimes you get pulled onto the 3rd pencil. | 2010-04-06 13:48:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| If you grab the eraser down on the pad, it moves the portal up where another grab switch is hiding the button you seek. | 2010-04-06 14:12:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| Ok here's the latest, I actually managed to get passed the tomatoes, hip hip! Nobody saw that one coming, so finally I get to see the famous pencils and I see what the problem is here. It's hard! I do however feel a little cheated since I actually managed, by some weird and wonderful quirk of fate, to get past them and thinking good grief I'm good, got over excited at the prospect of actually seeing more of the level, proceeded from the steps after said pencils only to fall off the end to the bottom of the level where to my horror all I could see was...........the bottom of the level. Shall I try again I thought to myself, no, I will go and stick pins in my own eyes, it will be less painful! Love you Gravel! Icey | 2010-04-06 14:13:00 Author: IceMaiden Posts: 1057 |
| Ice Maiden- those pins are a favourite of yours... FullofWinn- There is more than one way to skin a cat! The area originally was to have no jump pads... but then never performed the way I saw in my head... Thanks to Ccubbages' suggestion to speed them up... I like it. There is a bit more thrill... and I think it's easier. I built the pencils to resemble 'that' pencil sticker... it was dreamed up a long time ago, I was in a full pod and someone complained how useless this was (pencil sticker) someone else complained about the futility of the History Pak (scribble noise) to my mind right there and then, an obstacle was born. I'd been waiting to use it (this was the second incarnation of it) when I stumbled on the idea of Fozzie being a Ghost-writer for the very tomatoes that Statler & Waldorf use to pelt him with... The idea really amused me. MisterVista- Thank you for playing yet again. I inadvertently deactivated several features in my last update and Mistervista saved my bacon... thanks again! I'm gonna try to find a clear backed sticker to alert player of drawing pad gas... if it fits. | 2010-04-06 16:41:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| I played this morning Gravel, and you got a big LOL from me straight away with the joke at the beginning. : ) I got through the tomatoes, then the pencils and I got as far as the musical notes (looks fantastic), and proceeded to work my way over till i got to the third clef that seemingly bounces you into the electricity randomly. At that point I decided to take a more literal and suicidal approach to getting through, and walked to the right, away from the notes and spawnpoint and managed to bypass the musical score section and landed onto Fozzie Bear. Got to the flea circus and navigated that just fine until i found a grabby that took me up vertically and unfortunately i kinda didn't know where to go from there. The visuals and ideas here are just great, but there are two suggestions - I think nearly all the difficulty people are having comes from throwing too much at the player at once. There are so many ideas here, but usually all happening at the same time (laugh). There's a lot of invisible gas where invisible dark matter would have been just as good at shepherding the player in the right direction but without killing them. If there's a seemingly safe space in the level, why is the player punished for exploring? How am i supposed to know that going in this direction is actually going to kill me? Don't think I didn't enjoy the level though, like i mentioned, there's an afwul lot to like if you can appreciate that this level prefers to plays by its own rules, lol. | 2010-04-06 17:51:00 Author: julesyjules  Posts: 1156 |
| Finally, It took about 30 mintues to complete! It's incredibly hard, the pencil thing annoyed me so much but then it was the flea circus! I didn't know what to do and I was so confused but luckily I completed it. 5 Stars + One Huge Heart. | 2010-04-06 18:44:00 Author: Splash  Posts: 102 |
| Well Gravel, I played it again tonight..... HUGE difference! That pencil area is really fun now. I died a few times the first time through, but the speed and being able to "kick" yourself off the pencil and fly through the air a bit made a big difference. Nice job! | 2010-04-07 01:31:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430 |
| Indeed, i replayed again and managed the scoreboard, familiarity really works in this levels favour. Once you have a handle on what everything does, and you know where to go, its fun getting there. First time through, its just a wee bit overwhelming.... | 2010-04-07 02:15:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156 |
| The instructions about the blue button in the pencil area was a nice addition...even I couldn't fail to notice now, I made it to a little cannon this time, again didn't know what to do (fuse spark was really cool)...just sent me back to gonzo. There's maybe a platform above (wood w/arrows to the left) I didn't manage to land on top of it. There was a tick-tock sound...was this section timed as well? Gonzo did look awesome. The musical note section didn't make any sense either...but it did look very pretty. After getting stuck in the notes a few times I just flung myself into space on the right out of frustration...ended up on a bunch of fozzie heads...and what do you know...this actually appeared to be the correct way to go?!? You have a real knack for picking geometry that makes the platforming really random and fiddly. The level is also full of grab switches/buttons with no obvious purpose. Your characters and set pieces were great, the dialog was also amusing, the level design is some of the most annoying I've experienced. Congrats, I hate the muppets now as well... | 2010-04-07 02:48:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Ccub I appreciated the suggestions, you also Jules, they come from good sources I admire. A tough level is fine, a few unforeseen death can be forgiven, but it is my hope the determined player with adequate skill will be able to get to the end. Perhaps, I'm not quite there yet. I'm not quite sure what to make of your comments Elvenbane. I assume you liked but didn't like it... I am hoping the last bit was tongue in cheek! I don't mean to question you directly but I am trying to make this the best it can be! "You have a real knack for picking geometry that makes the platforming really random and fiddly." -you know how this goes... The more unique a level and the artists' vision, the higher the degree of difficulty, the more likely you are to hear something like this... Those leaves of yours drove me crazy and i completely understand where you are coming from... However, "The level is also full of grab switches/buttons with no obvious purpose." This actually bothers me. If you can find even one... I'll eat Fozzies' hat! All have visible immediate results... 50% aid in visual storytelling and 100% act as Billboards of afirmation that you are going the right way in what was posted as an 'abstract flow' level. Could you please clear your comments up for me? Grab #1-instructional cutscene (reveals first things first! switch) Switch#1- triggers cutscene (rizzo's puzzle and reveals) Button#1-triggers gas trap (green) Button#2-triggers cut scene and moves object (red) Grab#2 -instructional cutscene (123 chasm) Grab#3- dissolve (revealing) Button#3- cutscene starts timer(blue) Grab#4-triggers cutscene and moves object (Muppet clappers) Grab#5-controls two different pistons to gain further access of level (netted balls & crate) Grab#6-controls piston (to access trapeze area) Grab#7-contols emitter and piston Button#4-lowers cannon platform (by Camilla) | 2010-04-07 09:36:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Checkpoints. I always start with ordinary check points. Then as the level takes shape I change-out check points as I think are needed. I dislike infinites but now use them at times to appease players. I can think of no reason why it should be mandatory to use only one standard type... Mm sure didn't. And I sure remember dying and restarting their levels often enough... why shouldn't a community level be given the same amount of respect. Afterall, Mm gets paid... I do not. Community levels should be given more respect, and leeway. I have only recently discovered you can tell what kind of checkpoint it is by observing the white ring around it. Therefore my early complaint is now moot. Why did you add gas to the level boundry? The player cannot go futher left anyway if that is the case. EDIT: Ok, so I had another go. The modifications you put it make it SO much better. Way less frustrating. The stop sign, the red spikes instead of gas, clearer lights, and most importantly...Infinite CP! I got up to the flea circus cannon (after the egg, that thing is a female dog to push onto the button (because no grab), but I guess it has to be in order to make the player/cannon platform rise?), but I was unsure where to point the cannon, and what to do after you fire yourself. You need clearer direction for the player. For example on the end of the music notes, the player has to guess to jump to the right. And I didn't know where the hell to go on the cannon. There was scaffolding which I couldn't land on or grab. Some crazy egg looking thing that falls in front of you, only to disappear too quickly to see what it is and then being re-emitted. Are you supposed to grab it?? If not it is just confusing to the player. I think the killer for this level is the depth sucking black hole of the trademark muppet black background, combined with invisible walls/gas. One example is at the start of the music notes. You walk to the left on invisible material, only to be gassed if you keep walking. The same thing happens in the bottom left corner of the level. Why not replace the gas with walls? Some of the cameras could be improved also. I didn't like the pencil cam. hard to traverse pencils x3 + electric/gassy ground + moving gassy yoyo + button + timer + rising/sinking platforms (+ space where you can fall down inbetween them) + depth consuming black background + tricky camera = Well, I dont know what it equals. I just wanted to write out every element for that section. Can you see why people have trouble with it? xD This level certainly is interesting to say the least. | 2010-04-07 12:18:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513 |
| Midnight Heist thank you so much for coming back again- it means alot to me and making this level the best that it can be... I hope I answered some of your questions personally, most of your other points are valid and can be explained by the thermometer or simply aesthetic choices. I LOVE your equation: midnight heist: hard to traverse pencils x3 + electric/gassy ground + moving gassy yoyo + button + timer + rising/sinking platforms (+ space where you can fall down inbetween them) + depth consuming black background + tricky camera = Well, I dont know what it equals. I just wanted to write out every element for that section. Can you see why people have trouble with it? xD This level certainly is interesting to say the least. My response: "... and yet you made it across! Darn you're Good! Don't forget the jumper-pads! or Fozzie's sheets which sometimes hamper the player." "--for the record there is no electricity in this section... that would just be ridiculous!" I've done this section hundreds of times and not always successfully... when you finally get to the end and the 3 platforms/and the 3 spaces, and there moving! And you fall, and you will fall-- My heart is in my throat! I dont wanna go back! I've said it before... It's not just another level... It's an 'experience'. Thank you again for your help and insightful criticisms --Gravel | 2010-04-07 15:35:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| My two cents on Gravel. Gravel is one of those creators that makes you pay to play. If he was your neighbor, he would have bear traps hidden in his lawn just to keep you on your toes, but still be your best buddy. He loves creating master class silly hard levels that will leave quite an impression on you both at the frustration and in awe of the scenery. If he could toss banana peels and popcorn at you during the experience he would. For anyone that played his Ghostbusters level, this one is an amazing improvement as far as getting to the scoreboard. ..and the scenery was incredible in that one as well. | 2010-04-07 15:52:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| My two cents on Gravel... "...If he could toss banana peels and popcorn at you during the experience he would." I would also hand-out 50's style 3D paper glasses and a lighter for, said bannana peels, to dispel that ancient urban myth... and nothing says munch like the crunch of popcorn! I am -a benevolent creator. | 2010-04-07 16:13:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| I was of course kidding about hating the Muppets. What is frustrating about this level is that it's so beautiful, with such apparent care/skill taken with the characters/set pieces that you really want to like it...but it's just so annoying. The stems on the tomatoes, the bugs that can only be grabbed reliably from below, the slope angle of the top of the musical notes, the invisible/deadly gas, the egg that gets stuck between the button and the cannon platform, etc. The actual design of the platforming sections seems to be intentionally malicious and it's just too random...dumb luck seems more important than skill. At this point I feel like I beat the level; no, I didn't see the score board...but I did escape and make it to the right-most edge (past the weight that tries to squash you). Why is that weight even there...why did you let me go here? I thought I was going the right way, that's when I quit! You also have problems in the flea circus area where you are relying on the slightly higher front plane to keep the player in the front layer...with all the fiddly geometry it's easy to get behind the tubs and walk behind them to the chicken...I assume that wasn't intended. As for the various switches/buttons...it wasn't always obvious to me what they were for...the netted balls/crate for example...I thought maybe it was just to get the point bubbles...the 3 buttons in front of Gonzo...no clue, bouncing is fun? So there's a trapeze up there? Sounds fun, but you really expect people to find it by blindly firing themselves out of the cannon...and did we really need that rolling/lethal thing too? I had a lot of trouble with the cannon mechanism, you need to grab/jump to get any distance...and you can't see the sack person, so you just have to experiment with different timings...of course I didn't know where I was trying to land either...that didn't help matters! I'm not sure what your goal is with this level...do you really want to make a level that most people will be able to complete...it certainly doesn't seem like it? If it wasn't for the artistry shown I'd have just given up quickly and written this one off... | 2010-04-07 17:25:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Thanks, again for your comments Elvenbane! Why I don't see anything malicious in the level... I think it's safe to say the odds are sorely stacked against you. I don't think dumb luck is gonna get anyone very far but I am sorry I made you feel this way. You my friend have probably seen more of this level than most- I apologize you didn't hit the scoreboard this time around... but next time, if you haven't sworn off Gravel-levels by then, I promise to take your frustrations into account in design. Yes, i would say you beat the level... it is obvious to me you put in your time. I opted to make the level behind the tubs of terror open for two reasons; one- it is already expoused earlier in this section to reach a almost unseen combo... and two- the "TUBS of TERROR" can be a huge, huge, point drain. I almost stand corrected. I stopped thinking of the "Buttons" in front of Gonzo as "buttons" a long time ago. The first turns the lights on, the second, triggers a speech bubble, and the third emits bubbles.... they are the foundation of the reveal that I really like... and yes, bouncing is fun! I can not overstate how much I appreciate your patience and posts. | 2010-04-07 18:16:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Oh gravel, you have no idea how much I want to enjoy your levels. I really do. But.... everything is so darned awkward the whole way through. It's beautiful, absolutely beautiful, but just so awkward to play through that I actually cannot bring myself to like it. So , I'm currently on my third play through. First time through I died on the title screen. This is actually my fault as I didn't see the prox, so I was trying to understand where to go and kept hitting invisible gas. So I ran out of lives. Came back in and saw the prox, so I worked my way down to there, got the cutscene and things are looking a lot better -awesome characters, jaw dropping visuals, funny dialogue... all great stuff - side note: with the dialogue, you have time-triggered magic mouths, but you don't have them closing on a timed trigger. This irritates me. It's the same in luos's latest (can't remember about the previous ones, but defo in part 5). Essentially it means I can't flick through the text at my own pace, which is fine, except I can't just sit back and watch it unravel as I have to close down each one. It also leaves me in the situation where I'm never quite sure when the dialogue is over, do I close this mouth that seems to be the last one and risk a mouth jumping in and killing me, or do I just hang around for a while unsure? IDK, it bugs me. Minor thing, but it's easily remedied by closing down the mouths just after the next one opens. So, I start doing some gameplay, past the tomatoes, still looking good and more funnies thrown in. I get to the switch, I pull it and get some drivel about me being red or green, so I press a random button and the sardines move. Not sure what the second button does so I try it and I promptly die on some invisible gas. WTF? That's not nice. I procede onwards to the pencils. I actually gave up at that point my first run through. I got across quite quickly, then couldn't work out what to do (I had forgotten about the 60s thing, so this was my fault), but as I couldn't get up I tried going right and died on some gas, then had to do the pencils again. There are a number of irritating things about the pencils, although they seem to be improved on my second play through. Firstly, the camera seems to change massively when moving along, making landings increasingly difficult. On my first run through I had issues seeing the jump pads to land on, but this seems to be better now. When you do use the jump pads, the layer shifting can become horrible, and quite often I got stuck in whatshisname's nethers, due to a layer shift as I bounced. Overall the pencils aren't that bad, but even the next section with the pillars was a bit awkward. Essentially you get to them and there is a really wide camera angle, for no apparent reason. then as begin climbing them, whilst I'm in mid jump, the camera shifts suddenly and throws me off my landing. In fact, all of the camera angles in this level seem to be precision engineered to change at just the wrong moment! But I get up that section without to much fuss. On to the next part. This is mildly awkward but not too bad, but then there is a random jetpack tucked away, which seems to serve no purpose whatsoever. It doesn't allow you to go anywhere, so that confused me. Anyways, I get the thing moving and get on it and it throws me off before I know where the next stage is. Turns out I have to fling myself onto a platform that I can barely see and if I don't do it before I know whats there, I am killed for my lack of daring-do. Second time around I get across. I am pleased to find out I'm halfway through So we get to the musical score section, look gorgeous but for some reason I'm on an invisible platform. And invisible platform that just suddenly stops and I am dropped onto a hazard. Nice. Second time around I try planeshifting forward and this seems to work. I had know knowledge that it would, I just had to try it and see. Jump across to the second set of notes and I'm looking where to go next, I assumed I was going left, but it turns out it's downwards, to that platform tucked right in the very corner of the screen. So I drop down to that one and lo and behold, I get the camera to show me where the platform is. Of course, it's a tad to late and I end up bouncing off and dying. So, try again and this time, just after I land on that same platform it flippers me into some electricity. *sigh* Couple more goes and I handle the flipper well and get onto the next platform (of course, while I'm being flipped, there is that horrible moment when you can't see the platform you are landing on, which you know is roughly there, but where exactly?). And jump across to one after. THere is now no indication at all on screen of where I need to go. I can either jump right into an abyss, or I can jump down to the bottom of the note, and hope there is a camera change that gives me some clue. I flip a coin and it tells me to go down. No clues. I drop down and die. It seems the coin let me down. So I do the whole section again and jump right. Actually, that is a lie. I realise that whole section can be bypassed by simply dropping straight down from the checkpoint, so I do that instead... Wocka Wocka Wocka. Actually, this bit is one of the more obvious parts of the level - I know where I should go, I can see what I'm supposed to land on. Is quite refreshing! The flea circus bit is OK, until I got the part with the eggs. They naturally roll to a point where they won't stay on the button. But I hold it in place until the platform comes down, then you get some awkwardness where the egg falls off the button, platform rises, hits egg, egg goes onto the button, drops platform, then this repeats until it becomes unstable and the platform rises again. Luckily I can get another egg, but then the eggs stop coming, I can't get the platform down and I leave the level. I may come back, I don't know. TBH, the issue I have with this whole level is that a lot of it seems to require trial and error. In so many places it is not clear where you are supposed to go, what you are supposed to do. Having to complete a whole section again, simply because my coin flip sent me the wrong way, is not something that I find enjoyable. If I go back in again then I'm sure it will be less frustrating, as I will know what is expected of me, but in all honesty, it's probably not a good idea to rely on familiarity when the level is in fact quite hard even when you do know what to do. On the plus side, it looks fantastic | 2010-04-07 18:54:00 Author: rtm223  Posts: 6497 |
| Not to worry Gravel, I still consider any level of yours to be in the *must play* category...they are always a unique experience. You probably think I hate this level...I don't, I had fun when I wasn't stuck about what to do next (even thought the pencils were fun and not overly difficult). I hate to let this level defeat me...I'd like to find that trapeze, I could really use a hint. Where am I trying to aim with the cannon...how the heck did anyone else manage to figure out this section?!? > Those leaves of yours drove me crazy and i completely understand where you are coming from... I'm glad you mentioned these earlier...like you with this level I was also very surprised that people had difficulty with the sprung-bolt leaves from WoTaS. I think there's a real difference between those and some of the challenges of the Muppet level...I'll elaborate and you'll perhaps understand better where I'm coming from: The sprung-bolt leaves I'd consider to be a hard but fair platforming challenge. My reasoning for this is that they are almost entirely skill based. People find them difficult because they haven't developed the skill prior to encountering them...but it's very learnable. Why do I consider this section skill based...well primarily because there are no random elements, no death yoyos and nothing moving on its own...those leaves only react to your actions. This makes the behavior of the leaves both repeatable and predictable. Of course I may be way off base here...jwwphotos or mistervista would be a good ones to weigh in...I recall they both hated my leaves too. I made the decision to "leave" them in...why, simply because I thought they were fun. My level only got 500 plays, if I took out the leaves it wouldn't have gotten any more plays; I would have just liked it less. Same applies here, don't feel compelled to make any changes if you really like the way things are now. rtm: Hilarious, I can't stop laughing! | 2010-04-07 19:19:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| I'm glad you mentioned these earlier...like you with this level I was also very surprised that people had difficulty with the sprung-bolt leaves from WoTaS. I think there's a real difference between those and some of the challenges of the Muppet level...I'll elaborate and you'll perhaps understand better where I'm coming from: The sprung-bolt leaves I'd consider to be a hard but fair platforming challenge. My reasoning for this is that they are almost entirely skill based. People find them difficult because they haven't developed the skill prior to encountering them...but it's very learnable. Why do I consider this section skill based...well primarily because there are no random elements, no death yoyos and nothing moving on its own...those leaves only react to your actions. This makes the behavior of the leaves both repeatable and predictable. Of course I may be way off base here...jwwphotos or mistervista would be a good ones to weigh in...I recall they both hated my leaves too. I made the decision to leave them in...why, simply because I thought they were fun. My level only got 500 plays, if I took out the leaves it wouldn't have gotten any more plays; I would have just liked it less. Same applies here, don't feel compelled to make any changes if you really like the way things are now. I didn't hate them so much as I finally got better at them. I think I poked fun at them because they were to me the hardest thing in the level and came up front. | 2010-04-07 19:26:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| @Gravel: You let no one down. My thing against cheap deaths is just a personal thing. Some don't mind it. But I consider it a flaw in any level, so I was iffy on playing any further for fear of more since I was focused on score. Anyways, I am going to play it again now that you fixed some cheap deaths. Also anytime cheap deaths are in an infinite cp level there is typically no reason to be against them since you can't lose to them. But as I said last time I simply quite, never lost more than 1 life on the 2 attempts. I was too focused on score. However, I decided not to worry about score since its infinite cp now and just beat it. I'll get back to you on this. Hopefully I'll get around to playing it today.@mistervista: Lol. Horrendously hard? I bet I could show you hard levels that would stun you. But you might faint. ^_~ Remember, I'm always there to give you a friendly tour through 'the other side of LBP' as I call it. Last thing I'd want to do is cause someone stomach ulcers. Anyways, I'm just replying in a silly manner. Don't take this reply seriously. Everyone has their idea of hard. I wouldn't literally reply against someone thinking something is hard. That would be silly and disrespectful of others opinions. Just being friendly joking fun. | 2010-04-07 19:31:00 Author: Unknown User |
| The sprung-bolt leaves I'd consider to be a hard but fair platforming challenge. I had no issue whatsoever with the leaves at all.... they were consistent with spring mechanics where you need to time going down and going up. But yes, definately a frustrating mechanic nonetheless. Lol. Horrendously hard? I bet I could show you hard levels that would stun you. But you might faint. I gotta agree here.... this level is NOTHING compared to some of the rage-fests by creators such as festeredjester. I'd like to find that trapeze, I could really use a hint. Where am I trying to aim with the cannon...how the heck did anyone else manage to figure out this section?!? If I remember correctly, there was a point you had to jump up and grab, swing to the left, grab a thingy that throws you up to the trapeze area. I think I was under influence of some nite time cold medicine at the time, so making it through the level still seems like a dream. | 2010-04-07 19:51:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430 |
| The big cannon is a bubble points combo thing. It can be used to snag a trapeze, but the real start of them is up above that cannon. If I recall correctly, the red grabbie on the far left of the platform takes you up top where the trapeze really starts. | 2010-04-07 20:00:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| This is a public announcement : mrv has just finished the level, with second highest score. He is now recovering in hospital!!!!! Wocka, Wocka, Wocka! | 2010-04-07 20:07:00 Author: mrsvista Posts: 755 |
| OMG!!! Send flowers!! Get well soon!! LOL!!! | 2010-04-07 20:11:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| That's awesome MrV! Congrats! I haven't even managed that yet. I gotta say I'm just all warm and fuzzy about this level thread. It's a testament to Gravel's work that we are all trying desperately to finish this level and still giving it rave reviews. Kudos to ya Gravel for taking the feedback and implementing what you feel is appropriate. It's just a great example of a community feeling thread. Now where's the cookies? | 2010-04-07 20:30:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983 |
| RTM said in exasperation, "I am pleased to find out I'm halfway through" I have never been so devastatingly taken to task in such a humorous way in all my life! "Ribbons!" My good man, Ribbons! Oh I don't like you on the spotlight crew-- not one bit. Who's idea was this anyway?" Ahhh man. Here goes. I thought the initial Marquee was pretty straight forward -clearly a combo chance and as such if you following point bubbles eventually you should get to my "L"evator with out much trouble... if you were mistaken (originally) about that, perhaps your mistaken on more as well. Look, I appreciate you wanted to like it-- that I failed to meet your standards of acceptance, well of course it saddens me and hurts. I appreciate you using that sense of humour of yours to soften the blow-- Actually, i think I've been getting alot of this lately... and it does mean something. Players want to like it but they don't. You and I are at two very different places as creators and our expectations out of a level. For instance I couldn't follow what you were saying in your side note about magic mouths... and it bothered you enough to make note of it. I have never had a problem with my speech bubbles outside of it dropping a stray line occasionally if you read very very slowly. As well, all the subtlties of a finely crafted level sometimes escape and are wasted on me... I like the fact that my fruit flies may ignore you through 100 plays and kill you the next 5 in a row. I'm sure i could benefit a lot from your teachings-- anytime you wanna pop in I'll put on some tea. I would offer working with you in partnership, but after seeing your waterfall in Morgana's latest-- its the best I've ever seen... I literally have nothing to bring to this table. So what can I say to you RTM? I respect you. I've come to you for help. I think you're a pillar of this community. I think you're honest. I can't say you are wrong... but I do not believe you fully right. ( I want to believe your secretly a bad player... or playing on a 4:3 tv in a 16:9 world... maybe there is some secret scramble that wreaks havock with only my levels when converted from Ntsc to PAL... but I guess we all know there's not. ) Maybe it's the art, maybe it's the potential upside... but the facts are; I've never managed more than 245 plays, I've got less than 40 creator hearts, I guess I'm not very good. I love playing games and I've been doing it longer than most, I love to create. I love to share. I endeavor to one day get it all right. I had some hopes that this might be it. Some of those camera angles so easily dismissed took hours to find and you won't find them anywhere else... Now we know the reason for that. Soooo... I guess this don't bode well for any future spotlights huh? | 2010-04-07 20:48:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| "After further Self-reexamination, (who knew I'd need a proctologist for that?) I'm baack!" [I know it goes against forum etiquette but this is a stand alone post] I just wanted to Congratulate MisterVista publicly for completing something-- which just yesterday, he thought was an impossible task. So all the credit goes where it should-- to the player and accomplishing a goal. Congratulations again Mr.V! I am happy for you and thank you very much for the plays and patience... For good or bad, I think that's why I'm here, and why i do what I do... to do it better, my goal. | 2010-04-07 22:00:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Okay, it's taking me forever to clear this level. Right now I have the 1p score of 30+k. I'm stuck right now trying to figure out where to go in the circus. It's not the platforming that is causing a problem, but more of the fact that I don't see a way out of the circus tent. I've even went all the way right to the right wall of the grid which I did by breaking out of te level. I hit the bottom of the falling weight which bumped me to back plane since I couldn't leave the area because the cannon broke. I ended up pulling the sponge inside out of the cannon and smashed it under the cannon. Was that sponge suppose to be glued? So without a cannon I have to bump myself to back plane. I've even been up to the trapeze part. The only spot I haven't been to is that ramp that lowers repeatedly on the center island with the rolling gas barrel, but I don't see anything there. I'm assuming maybe there is a gas teleporter that gets me when I get on the ramp. I've even tried the technique of taking photos off screen in hopes of maybe there is something I can't see. Anyways I'm going to keep looking, but if I don't get it soon I'm leaving the level. I've been in the level at least 2 hours now. Most of which has been spent dealing with things breaking in the circus area, and trying to find the way forward in the circus area. | 2010-04-07 22:21:00 Author: Unknown User |
| Okay, sorry if this is a double post (I haven't refreshed page). Apparently I finished, the trapeze swings took me all the way right. I got a scoreboard mention, then some more text from the elderly guys. After the text I am standing on the floor of grid by the right wall but there is no scoreboard and everything is dark and I can't see. ? | 2010-04-07 22:34:00 Author: Unknown User |
| check your page or add gravel to psn so i can get you out... that is an amazing, amazing score i'd like you to finish! Did you activate that last platform you were on? If so you can pop! and get back to the platform which raises to the scoreboard... I'm just not sure what you did and where you are? If you can retrip the first button infront of gonzo the lights will come up to facillitate vision but if you've been breaking things (which has never happened) you may not be able to get back... *gulp* she hates me. I feel like I got a miner stuck in my coal mine... this is terrible! | 2010-04-07 22:41:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| s3xNstilettos, How exactly do you get to the trapeze? I flew all over that tent and didn't see the red grabbie jww alluded too? Don't want to go back in unless I think I stand a chance of finding my way out. I've been on that center platform with the ramp/rolling barrel...that's how I escaped the level...is it anywhere near that? | 2010-04-07 22:45:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Lemme try this again. If you take the teeter totter that gonzo is tapping up, you get to grab a counterweight sort of contraption. Ride that up a bit and then try to jump off the box that lowers, so when you let go the box goes up and boosts you on to the lower portion of the catwalk which all is a grabby material. R1 hand over hand so to speak to the left, the last grab is the red thing. Using that, attempt to fling yourself up and on top of that same red grabby. Once you are on top, you can continue to grab and launch yourself straight up and on to the platform that has a portal and a star. To the right is where you need to jump like everything to get to the first trapeze. Whew!!! | 2010-04-07 22:54:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| @Gravel: Okay, I'll add you. I left a visitor message. I'm at the part between the chicken and next to right wall of grid. Maybe I should try popping first. Oh, and my score has been reduced to 28k since last message. I ended up dying twice shooting from a cannon into the gas barrel on island, lol, but I guess that's still a decent score. @fullofwin: Once you get up to the cp at top and the swings, you swing from one swing to another to a platform far right. That's 3 swings total I think. You get to the swings by either shooting from the cannon below the cp flag pole, or by jumping from the platform to swing. | 2010-04-07 22:55:00 Author: Unknown User |
| You know... I'm gonna go in and go through this level again. When I made it through the first time I was all hopped up on cold medicine. I think it actually enhanced the experience. But alot of my memories of the level are pretty fuzzy. A few of the areas mentioned I don't even remember, but I KNOW I made it to the exit gate because my score was recorded. Gotta say, based on this thread I'm getting more and more convinced this level should NOT be changed. Just the thought that this level exists is really ingriguing. | 2010-04-07 22:55:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430 |
| I am liking it as is now. I just finished again. Funny thing is, my high score is like 19,400 or something. My last score was 15,000+ and it registered as the high score. If I look back to the high score page, it still shows the 19,000+ one. Methinks their databases are not in sync! | 2010-04-07 22:58:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| The seesaw gonzo puts in motion to prop you into the air. grab netted balls. platform onto crate or jump directly to a grab on the platform above you!!! you will notice in an aha! moment what you've been missing! spotlights and everything! grab-hang following arrow to the left. the cameras tight then zwip! you will be taken vertically up. this grab mechanism falls faster than you... so with some practice you can perch on top of it. in short, you start hanging below it... you end up on top of it! This mech as your timing skill increases will launch you to an Infinite lives CP. three trapeze swings are to the right... be careful to get lots of momentum as the are pretty long jumps! the platform on the far side has a grab. this gives a bonus and triggers platform up to the scoreboard... Dont fall off (I think thats what sexnstilletos might have done) Your Home. | 2010-04-07 22:58:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Ok, I know that platform...I saw the arrows before. I was trying to land on top of it with cannon which seems impossible. The material didn't look grabbable...I thought it was some sort of wood. Hopefully 4th time's a charm! | 2010-04-07 23:06:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Well, it'd be good of you to make it out for my sake and sanity! Sexnstilletos just recorded a score of 28k... My personal best is 24,990. so it looks like I may actually be able to play my own level for real now. (I have no idea how she did that...) expect her gloat, ahem, i mean post to follow. (I for one am donning flame retardant underwear.) | 2010-04-07 23:16:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Ok, I beat the level with 28+k. I popped myself and popped to a cp on the platform that raises you to the scoreboard. Here is all I have to say . . . Pros -Very nice visuals true to the Muppet Show theme. -The dialogue was great. Some funny stuff there. -The platforming (not counting the con parts mentioned below) was nice. Cons -Multiple times throughout level I died from invisble deaths, whether it be gas, or the fire I didn't know was in the barrels until I landed in the barrels to get the bubbles, etc. This also includes parts where the direction you're suppose to go isn't apparent. Now I know I said this isn't such a big deal with infinite cps, but there is an over-abundance of invisible deaths throughout level. -The camera settings are problematic in some spots, like the part with the music notes in the top row, etc. -The bottom cannon in the circus (the one next to chicken) had a loose piece of sponge and the cannon broke because I pulled the sponge out before I realized what to do. First I jumped in it and pressed R1 and nothing happened. So I pulled sponge out in pursuit of figuring out what to do. So apparently I did what I was suppose to the first time but it didn't work, which I assume was because of loose sponge. Was it suppose to be loose? I didn't have a problem with the other cannons. Plus other parts of level seemed easy to break or fragile, as in easily broken. Anyways, I gave it :star::star::star::star::star: and a heart. ^_^ | 2010-04-07 23:28:00 Author: Unknown User |
| I love how this level has now become an LBPC rites of passage, LOL! | 2010-04-08 00:04:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156 |
| I love how this level has now become an LBPC rites of passage, LOL! ROFL! Yup.. I am so loving this thread. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy either. | 2010-04-08 00:18:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| Ok, thanks to gravels instructions I got the the end of the trapeze. Then the whole level when dark and I couldn't find the scoreboard. ARH! *head desk* att gravel: Because I had these clear instructions, I didn't have many problems at all. If everyone had these hints (incorporated into gameplay with arrows) we could finiish the level without any help! :o gamebreakers on 1/2 half: - You can walk past the whole barrels/chicken/weight that squishes/etc to the end of the level wall. - You can get to the chicken BEFORE the top/counterweight/cannon/trapeze. - Cameras switches half way through player actions! (for example second last trapeze rope) I thought the gonzo finger flick thing was meant to lead onto the barrels. You just need an arrow pointing up! :o ADD ME! I wanna walk play with your intentions. This is gonna make me late for work so you owe me. | 2010-04-08 00:22:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513 |
| VICTORY!!! Now I can die in peace!!! I found a real quick/cheap way out of the circus...you all made it too difficult...grab swings are for wusses. My score was terrible since I wasn't collecting bubbles but my time was probably one for the record books. When riding the netted balls/don't jump on the crate...instead do a small jump straight up and land on top (it's pretty narrow)...now you can ride the netted balls up again and jump at the apex to land on top of the grab-swing platform by the 2nd cannon, by dumb luck I fired myself first try over to what I guess was the last trapeze and flipped right over to the exit...it was all over so fast I couldn't quite believe it. I doubt I could ever do it this easily again (pencil's 1st try in 2 leaps, etc.)...glad it's over...when do I get my certificate of achievement?!? Because the visuals can't quite make up for the weird plaforming I could only give this 4 stars...but I did heart it.* That first chicken/egg/cannon was just cruel mis-direction. ** If one was really bored couldn't you jump on the 3rd Gonzo button to get whatever score you wanted? | 2010-04-08 00:26:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Ahhh man. Here goes. I thought the initial Marquee was pretty straight forward -clearly a combo chance and as such if you following point bubbles eventually you should get to my "L"evator with out much trouble... Oh it was, I just didn't see the prox on the first run through. That was entirely me being thick - I did mention that was my fault You and I are at two very different places as creators and our expectations out of a level. For instance I couldn't follow what you were saying in your side note about magic mouths... and it bothered you enough to make note of it. I have never had a problem with my speech bubbles outside of it dropping a stray line occasionally if you read very very slowly. I'm in a very different place to approximately 100% of creators in this game, in honesty. The mouths are not a problem, per se, it's just something that bugs me mildly, for no apparent reason. It's the fact that you have timed magic mouths, but they don't close automatically. That's all it is, it just irritates me. I either want them all at once, so I can choose my own pace, or delivered automatically, one at a time (i.e. when mouth two is activated, mouth one is deactivated). I wouldn't say that is something that needs to be changed and the truth is it really irritated me on luos's level which I played the other day, which has loads of text in it, so obviously my annoyance in the style of text delivery was compounded by that and was still fresh in my mind when I played yours. I may not have even noticed it if it wasn't for that. It's seriously not a big deal. I'm sure i could benefit a lot from your teachings-- anytime you wanna pop in I'll put on some tea. I would offer working with you in partnership, but after seeing your waterfall in Morgana's latest-- its the best I've ever seen... I literally have nothing to bring to this table. You're crazy. You have insane skills with visuals, ridiculously so. I can think of maybe 3 creators that could come close to the quality on display here - it is mindblowing - which is the reason why I want to love your stuff. Also I didn't make the waterfall in morgana's level look pretty, she did. I simply made it work I can't say you are wrong... but I do not believe you fully right. ( I want to believe your secretly a bad player... or playing on a 4:3 tv in a 16:9 world HAha, in honesty up until the last fortnight I have barely been playing at all, so my skills aren't great, which of course compounds the issues I have. When I had to make that leap of faith decision and I got it wrong, it was made all the more bitter that my actual platforming skills made the trip back to where I was all the more long-winded. But I still maintain that that leap of faith was unfair as I did have to guess and then every other death getting back to that point felt like it was unfair as well, even though me dying was my own fault, I felt like I shouldn't have been having to play that section again. And this brings me around to something important. My commentary on how I played through your level was not meant to bash you or put you down. It wasn't even meant as revenge for the time I spent in your level You struggle to get larger numbers of plays and feedback, because people seem to get frustrated and quit out of your levels. I think you already know this, but you seem to be unsure why, hence the fact you seem very keen on getting feedback. I can't tell you what is right and wrong, as it is all just opinion, so I thought I'd give you an insight into my feelings as I was playing through: Where I found things frustrating and why. It's just how I felt. Now, you clearly have enough intelligence to take that and distill what you will from it. If you can see what I'm saying and agree, then maybe tweak things up a bit. You might just think that some of it is drivel and I'm simply talking nonsense, or that you just prefer certain sections the way they are - it's your level, so you need to actually think something needs changing before you do so, and if someone tells you something needs changing, it needs to be the case that you agree with them. Remember that I'm the guy who thinks the collapsing building in anposteller's post-apocolyptic looks wrong because it's movement is far too controlled. Everyone else thinks it looks fantastic, to me it looks like a building on an invisible piston, moving far too slowly. So I wouldn't take my opinion as gospel!I think the only real issue with this level is that it assumes that you know, in advance, how to tackle each section, which makes the first time through it a bit of a chore as you do have to use some trial and error to get there. I can totally understand how this happens - it's difficult as a creator to imagine that you don't know what is coming up next, or what the solution is. | 2010-04-08 01:32:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| I just played your level or should I say I just TRIED to play your level. Everything is designed so well. I noticed a considerably high quality in the design of the characters, objects and Obstacles. However, the obstacles are very difficult. I would give you an example, but there is no need because all of the obstacles are difficult. This is not a problem if you want your level to have high difficulty. I got a little more than half way through your level before calling it quits. Because I didn't fully complete your level I don't think it would be fair for me to review it. Your level had frustrating mixed with fun and displayed a level of creative skill I rarely see. It is currently rated three stars, but even though I only played through half of it I can say it deserves more than three stars. Unfortunately, people often give low ratings to levels that are difficult, So don't get discouraged by the three stars because your level is a four or even five star level. What I really liked: The various objects moved smoothly, and in a complicated way. e.x. the big pencils. What I didn't like at all: The level was very hard. It would take a large amount of skill to complete this level and not everyone is a pro. | 2010-04-08 06:48:00 Author: Unknown User |
| Funny to read as I myself gave up after 2 mins but that was of other reasons. I will try this today. | 2010-04-08 09:11:00 Author: BasketSnake  Posts: 2391 |
| I LOVE your equation: midnight heist: My response: "... and yet you made it across! Darn you're Good! Don't forget the jumper-pads! or Fozzie's sheets which sometimes hamper the player." "--for the record there is no electricity in this section... that would just be ridiculous!" --Gravel hard to traverse pencils x3 + gassy ground + moving gassy yoyo + button + timer + layer switching in mid air + rising/sinking platforms (+ space where you can fall down inbetween them) + depth consuming black background + tricky camera + jumper pads + Fozzie's sheets which always hamper the player if they jump too high + extra bit of gas on the last jump if you didn't die already. Fixed. | 2010-04-08 11:31:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513 |
| I think the only real issue with this level is that it assumes that you know, in advance, how to tackle each section, which makes the first time through it a bit of a chore as you do have to use some trial and error to get there. I can totally understand how this happens - it's difficult as a creator to imagine that you don't know what is coming up next, or what the solution is. You know, Gravel - this paragraph is THE key. It's the one principle that seems a bit difficult for you to understand. From a balanced viewpoint, your visuals and concepts are INSANELY good. But, you lack basic gameplay psychology skills. How do they KNOW where to go? How do they KNOW how to solve a particular problem? Most creators lack your visual skill, but they can naturally answer these questions. So, I decided to play all the way through again and see if I could give you some practical advice. There's several concepts that can help here: 1. Familiarity - an obscure design that people can't relate to WILL confuse them. On each area, try to think about HOW a player is supposed to know how to accomplish it. What do they see that they're naturally going to say "hey.... I can relate to this... I can do this!". For instance, a player walks by a locked door.... a bit later they see a key laying on the ground. If it was a banana laying on the ground, they wouldn't make the connection that the objects were related to each other. The reason I say this is because many people have been confused by the beginning.... there doesn't seem to be a connection between the actions they're performing and the result. They pull a switch, step on a red button, die..... and at that point are completely lost. 2. Direction - it should always be clear, in one way or another, what direction the player should go in. This can be accomplished several ways - A camera angle leading them, arrows pointing, something visual that attracts them (such as a point bubble chain), or lead them (there's only one way to go). For instance, at the end of the notes section.... you have to KNOW to jump to the right. There's nothing that clues the player into knowing what to do. Or near the flea circus when you grab the material from the bottom and work your way swinging to the left.... you set the camera angle to zoom way in so that as the player swings to the left they can't actually see where they're swinging to. Or when you get on top of the trapeze and it mentions the cannon - you can't actually see down at all to judge your drop. Play through the level and at every section ask yourself - how does the player KNOW where to go. Even if your level has multiple directions, the player needs to know that there's choices. One additional note on this: it's FAR better to figure out how to lead the player than give magic mouth statements. Players feel much more fulfillment in figuring something out rather than being told. 3. Don't use your own skill to determine difficulty - You've played your level MANY times by release. Most players will only play it a few times, so you can't say "It isn't too hard - "I" can do it!". Find a person who represents the "player" you wish to target and listen to them. True story - back in the mid-80's a designed a video game which got a reputation of being far too difficult, but it was easy for me. Several years ago I found it being pirated out on the internet along with an emulator - I downloaded it and tried playing it (I hadn't played it in about 10 years). I CAN'T BEAT MY OWN GAME! 4. Usability testing - In software development, we use "usability tests" where we take people who are unfamiliar with our software, stick them in front of a computer, and let them attempt tasks. We're not allowed to help them in any way. We take notes on what confuses them. We don't try to "justify" our design. If it's wrong, it's wrong. If they got confused, it needs changing. Period. I would strongly suggest you invite someone into your level that you respect and who has never played it before.... and watch them. Don't show them what direction to go in. Take notes. 5. Don't throw too many things at them at once. Midnight_Hiest's post above illustrates this. Even in the pencil section (which I enjoy), giving them 30 sections combined with the yo-yo, combined with the moving pencils.... so on and so forth - people can generally only handle so much at a time before they get overloaded. Even on the "expert platforming" levels, it may be incredibly difficult but generally you only face 1 or 2 obstacle concepts at a time. Until they practice a LOT, people have a problem understanding multiple movement patterns at a time. To them it all starts to look random and cheap. | 2010-04-08 14:11:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430 |
| Wow. Just looked at the clock and realized I spent the last hour (at work) reading this entire thread. It was like one of those books you just can't put down. | 2010-04-08 16:06:00 Author: IStwisted  Posts: 428 |
| Wow Ccub, thank you for doing that i really enjoyed the advice as well as the tone of your post. If I were forced to make a list of my best attributes it would look something like this: LIST -devastatingly roguish good- looks and charm -empathy -Artistic inspiration -psychology -the written word. Obviously, I am making light but I get everything you and RTM are saying. That I get it only makes it worse... I have a problem implementing and demonstrating it. I think though, with more time in design, more time in play testing( this thread has more or less been that) I might be able to bring a more fully realized project to my next thread... I always start subtle. Obstacle in space, camera angles to direct player, then maybe a key light and sound. After that is sorted out I try to throw in a little "BAHMM!" to steal a phrase. But since nearly 90% of everything I have ever created... (oh my moon is full of crap) exists outside the boundaries of walls, floor, ceiling... I have observed lbp players act different deprived of the security of being 'boxed-in'. They are less apt to follow subtle flow and more apt to question all that is presented before them... especially my previous stuff. There needs to be more hand holding, more magic mouths, at the expense of self-discovery... I agree with you 100% I need to bridge that gap between the two... I have failed thus far. Of course it doesn't help that I am really the OverLord of OverDesign. To me, those pencils are equivalent to PITFALL. big hole in ground. Must be crossed. you see three vines swing to and fro. now do it! whether or not there's gas, electricity, or jump pads in the hole doesn't matter because if you fall in you are dead. I like to pretend I'm a professional game designer (but lets be honest) to make some of these far-out ideas congeal into a level --I'd have to be! Out of all my deadly achillies heels-- the worst offender is that I work in a bubble. A vacuum of 'me'ness which is apparently to the detriment of all. It's good for originality and surprise, but, I'm thinking this is what needs to be sorted out most. I'm working with a bunch of voices in my ear, they're all yes men... and all me. Thanks again for the advice... It'll get sorted. That goes for JW, Midnight, Fullof(heh-heh),Rtm and Mistervista as well... You might be called upon in the "Gravel's Lottery of Lousy" --a playtesters' nightmare. HEY-Y-YYY, Now that sounds like a level! (what is the matter with me-- I am so very very sick) | 2010-04-08 16:10:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| One thing I have found is helpful while creating, especially now with online create is to reach out to a few choice people for their perspectives on a level in progress. I don't like to get a ton of feedback in early stages as some cannot fathom my vision in progress. Especially when I am not clear on the concept either! I remember when someone paid me a visit in my workshop early on and got a look at my electrified floor buffer section in SE2 in super early stages. They completely freaked because it wouldn't work, made no sense to them blah blah blah... It was pretty hysterical to me. It ended up being one of the coolest rooms in the level! So you have to look for those open minds, someone that is patient enough to attempt to see where you are coming from, able to give some advice, and honest about what they see and why. That being said, as long as you put me back where ya found me, you are always welcome to borrow me for a bit. | 2010-04-08 17:27:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| That being said, as long as you put me back where ya found me, you are always welcome to borrow me for a bit. [snickers] I think you forgot the 'safe 'n' sound' part! | 2010-04-08 18:32:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Apparently "bent and broken" is good enough for JWW I'm happy to volunteer as well. I meant to send you a PSN request earlier but I forgot. Actually, I meant to send one about a month ago, but I forgot then as well. I'll probably forget later on today as well, so you might wanna be a bit proactive about the whole thing | 2010-04-08 18:39:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| Figured I would pop in to say that your pencil obstacle (that whole part) has inspired me to make an extreme version of the same obstacle, but of course I won't be copying visuals which means they won't be pencils in mine, but they will move the same. Planeshifting mid air on even thinner platforms than your pencils is common in extreme platforming, usually super thin glass plats. But moving ones like that I've never seen. So to qualify with an expert difficulty I would have to adjust speed and make the obstacle a lot longer (more jumps from one moving object to the other), and whatever else like maybe slightly thinner. Thanks for the inspiration! ^_~ | 2010-04-08 18:48:00 Author: Unknown User |
| Wow, that's what I call a successfull level thread... I'm even more curious... and scared to play it now! But I definitely will, it looks great, even if hard levels are not really my thing | 2010-04-08 18:55:00 Author: dajdaj03 Posts: 1486 |
| Apparently "bent and broken" is good enough for JWW LOL!!! Well.. I didn't say I wouldn't scream if it got scary! | 2010-04-08 19:14:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| i think i was the second to complete this, after comphermc. it was hard but i didnt give up, although after playing this i wanted to rip you a new orifice but overall i enjoyed playing your level,having a sense of achievement once completing it, although noobs will rate it down due to its difficulty. shame | 2010-04-08 21:19:00 Author: Soupersadist  Posts: 82 |
| Thanks Soupersadist for the new orafice! It seems my supervisors at work are thrilled as well-- as my production has gone up 43% The up-side of now being able to take my bathroom/lunch/and coffee breaks, all at the same time! Seriously though, it's all cake for you with your level three clearance and all! Show-off! Thanks for the play and nice sig. | 2010-04-08 21:31:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| First of all, I would like to say.. that this level looks absolutely brilliant. The finest graphics LBP has to provide is in this level. You certainly are very artistic. The camera in the beginning though.. I feel like the camera is the result of my deaths in this part. It's hard to judge where the red spikes are with the camera being this way. I didn't even know those were spikes! I guess I found out the hard way . Adding more cameras leading up to the switch may be an option. Just a thought. Wow, the gameplay is really hard though lol. Okay.. so I'm on this music note.. And I don't see anywhere to go. I'm surrounded by 2 smaller music notes which are electrified. Okay, nevermind. I got past that part. Maybe add some arrows or something. That last part in the music note section was pretty vague. Love the lighting in the woods. Theres a visible sound effect on Gonzo's right hand. Well, I got to the scoreboard. Very interesting level. Must've took you a while to make. Great job! 5 Star & hearted. Sad that this level only has 3 stars. Hope my 5 will help it some. Looking forward to seeing more or your work! | 2010-04-08 22:08:00 Author: MrTran  Posts: 216 |
| Lol, Gravel noticed that I had managed to get the top slot on the scoreboard but hadn't posted anything in here, so he dragged me in here. lol. Ok, so, my thoughts... 1. The level looked beautiful, obviously. Honestly, I don't even think this is in question. 2. The level was very fun to play. Now, don't get me wrong, it was quite difficult in portions - but I think a level with prizes SHOULD be difficult. The prizes give a motivation for overcoming the challenge, and the challenge makes the prize seem all the more special. Of course, I don't really think I'll ever have need of a giant Gonzo-head, but that bucket could be shrunk and recolored and made a background object, for example. Now the level wasn't perfect, there were some ... I'll use the term scatter-shot design ... but once a level does so many things right, all of its minor flaws no longer become very bothersome. Overall the level was perfect for the "very difficult but prize-motivated" genre. Admittedly, it's kind of a niche' genre, but I appreciate them for one. And for a set piece - the circus background was straight up brilliant. | 2010-04-09 01:11:00 Author: Jagrevi  Posts: 1154 |
| I tried it. It was horrible to play. | 2010-04-09 10:19:00 Author: BasketSnake Posts: 2391 |
| I was lucky enough to have a look around Gravel's moon today. He has some really interesting and amazing contraptions. (wish I played his older levels when they were online!) Visuals and effects were off the charts. I was inspired to go back to mine after my mind was blown by his stuff. Beaker labs for the win. :o I would liken Gravel to a student doing an assignment, who goes off in his own special (yet amazing) tangent, and produces something way better than the other student who follows the rules to get the grades. Or in LBP terms, catering to the majority audience for plays (ie. kids that just race through a level). He certainly doesn't sack-rifice (har har) visuals for thermo space. For example the counter weight part has 3 separate pieces glued together with a grab switch on each leading to an or switch to pull sackboy up. The reason for this is because the shading + overall didn't look right to him. :o I don't know anyone else who would do that for such a small piece of the level. Another key will be getting the balance between open world and linear/directed gameplay. If he chooses to put those simple gameplay tweaks (which will just come from practice) into his levels, by golly he will be a force to be reckoned with. I'm sure we would all love to test his levels (to simply tighten up the gameplay) so more people can enjoy them. | 2010-04-09 11:43:00 Author: midnight_heist Posts: 2513 |
| I'm sure we would all love to test his levels (to simply tighten up the gameplay) so more people can enjoy them. Yup.... he's asked me a few times, and I've failed simply because I have the KEY BUG on my PSN.... I can't collect keys at all at this point.... I think the most difficult part with reviewing this level is that it looks SO DARNED GOOD. My 8-year-old sat and watched me play it and looked like this.... O.o Just watching it he was DYING to play it, but when he tried he only lasted minutes. But I personally enjoy it - I've played through it 3 times beginning to end, and have found different small details each time. Great stuff. It's only a matter of what audience the level is trying to reach at this point. Is is SUPPOSED to be extremely niche? I would be glad to list a bunch of easy tweaks that could make it more mass friendly, but based on this thread I honestly have NO idea which direction Gravel wants to go. There's a lot of text but very little "tweaking" whereas my level threads were usually very little text, lots of tweaking. | 2010-04-09 12:04:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430 |
| Wow by looking at the photos you've uploaded the level looks very interesting! I will play this tonight | 2010-04-09 12:08:00 Author: Fenderjt  Posts: 1969 |
| Wow, this could have been so good... it's quite sad that you ruined it. Character design is exceptional. Im not a massive fan of the muppets but from the characters I remember they all look very true. I got to the pencils and just didn't have a clue what to do??? I crossed to the otherside and tried to jump up the platforms but it was way too high to get up to the top. Random invisible gas sections just make the level impossible and the puzzles aren't reasonable, it's just chance if you work out what to do... which just makes for poor gameplay. As for the actual level, its not presented very well. Camera angles need to be improved and apart from character design the level design itself is below par. Over all 3 stars and no heart. Also how come you've had about as many responses on here as plays on the level? That's crazy! | 2010-04-09 12:18:00 Author: ladylyn1  Posts: 836 |
| WELL, I hope your not asking me???? how come you've had about as many responses on here as plays on the level? That's crazy! Actually I think perhaps you did a pretty fair job of describing why... Thanks for your play, I was an English Major Once Upon A Time... I can read between the lines pretty effectively... {RUINED, IMPOSSIBLE, POOR, UNREASONABLE, RANDOM, BELOW PAR, 3STAR} --you go right on being a closet patriot for this level! What I object to is your "NO HEART" comment like I had somehow passed my allotment... I am curious why you would go out of your way to make sure I understand in no uncertain terms that I (and this level) are not worth your LOVE. It's not as if subtly is at play... here! I am sorry I didn't craft this level better-- seriously, I've made several mistakes in design that I hope not to make ever again. But would you really like to know what makes this thread so successful? It's because of me! (...and you.)  I have taken no one to task over their opinion and I've encourage them to be honest. I accept, that I have plenty of room to grow... and this is the forum to help me grow. I've poked some fun, been poked, had some yuks. I know who I am so this process isn't as touchy for me-- as it it for some. Most of all the level...it's a unique level. In a sea of "Billions and Billions served" it's different... now whether or not you enjoy it is completely subjective and open for debate... But like my level, I have a visible grab switch, which solely exists trying to help you make it through those pencils, step by step. I really do apologize Ladylyn, I would have loved if you liked it. LEVEL UPDATE: (Some time later today this should go live) Removed a few cheap experiences... I was able to remove gas level boundary to left of 1st CP and replace with invisible material. At the first MUPPET clapper (end of pencils) I removed the possibility of falling into gas or out of level. I rearranged 2 point bubbles to help better define musical notes final leap of faith. Thanks to all... especially Mid-night for his help, persistence, and most recently kind words. Going to check the High Score Now... | 2010-04-09 14:47:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Actually I think perhaps you did a pretty fair job of describing why... Thanks for your play, I was an English Major Once Upon A Time... I can read between the lines pretty effectively... {RUINED, IMPOSSIBLE, POOR, UNREASONABLE, RANDOM, BELOW PAR, 3STAR} --you go right on being a closet patriot for this level! What I object to is your "NO HEART" comment like I had somehow passed my allotment... I am curious why you would go out of your way to make sure I understand in no uncertain terms that I (and this level) are not worth your LOVE. It's not as if subtly is at play... here! I am sorry I didn't craft this level better-- seriously, I've made several mistakes in design that I hope not to make ever again. But would you really like to know what makes this thread so successful? Thanks for taking my feedback like a man... you're the first to do so. And I lolled at ur closet patriot statement too. Your right, it's unique but just so god ******* confusing. Seriously u could have an incredible level here... the muppets are an easy going bunch so why not give ur level a similar theme? Perhaps then you'll get some lovin from me! Still, as I started... the level has epic potential and if im ever in need of someone with character design help, I'll be knocking straight at your door. Seriously tho... i might. @anpostteller: think it's time to give an honest opinion since i won't be here for a while. | 2010-04-09 19:06:00 Author: ladylyn1 Posts: 836 |
| So I spent my day tweaking this thing today-- I liken it to working with live explosives-- thermometer is so hot-- things just disappear-- one moment there's a grab switch next there's not... and Oh that breaking noise! So I compiled a list mostly generated by Ccub- but also based on several suggestion from here...(tbh) right this second not sure what I've got... it was stressful... Ok here's the list... Oh, and I didn't change the amount of point bubbles or any combo possibilities... wouldn't want to jeopardize those two ridiculous scores up top! From the top: The MUPPET Level marquee- Created and tweaked camera zones to try an highlight prox switch more... also added a delay and cut secene to accomplish same end. Corner edited the 'E' in 'Level' to help 'E'ase of jump up... Bad tomatoes and fruit flies- changed out gas for invisible barrier left of CP. 'Flattened- out' camera in entire section, sped-up middle tomatoes, added a line of text warning player about the switch, removed Rizzo's cutscene. Ghost-Writer- used global lighting tool to change the background colour, accenting takeoff and landing areas (think I still be tweaking the colour but its a step in the right direction...escaping ever so briefly the soul-sucking black). added inviso wall so Icey can no longer fall off edge of landing zone. I find this area pretty easy now so i didn't touch the cameras, they are what they are. MUPPET clappers - no changes 1/2 way point- slightly changed the camera angle. Rainbow connection- added invisible wall so players cant fall to their deaths to the Left. (Kept the right open as I like multipaths and you guys discovered it-- so what the hey!) Added 2 lines of dialogue to help guide the player in meta-physical mumbo-jumbo... it will probably confuse even more. Added or 'changed-out' two point bubbles to give player a jumping goal at the end of the section. Fozzie- I tweaked the camera ever so slightly to better glimpse the point bubbles... but to me that's the degree of difficulty. The reveal- this is still my favorite and weakest of the sections. Up top I pulled the cameras out a little to try and create as Cubb wrote a less claustraphobic feel... it 'works' but there are some drawbacks to my design revealed as well. Removed and relocated the red lights from trapeze stanchions both left and right. Re-wrote "to scoreboard" warning! Re worked grab Mechanism to scoreboard... there is still a lack of cohesive direction in this area but it always was suppose to be a huge distraction... to mess about and have fun. Hopefully these changes will accent that! Congrats JWW-that is mighty impressive... tomorrow i'll set about breaking it with a personal Gravel combo... creators' perk! Please let me no if you discover any 'new' problems... as for the old-- my ears are still open... but I'll know in a day or two if its where I want it to be... Anposteller- Yes, i respect you and tried to lead the horse to water... that ol' trick never works!:blush: Ladylyn- no reason to knock... the doors always open. | 2010-04-09 23:36:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| Heya Gravel, I approve of *most* of the changes...the camera angles are indeed better. I was also able to do the notes section "correctly" for the first time thanks to the point bubble hint for the last jump. The only change I didn't like was the background change in the pencil area...it looked better black...ghosts aren't scary when the sky is blue. Also if you make it across to the clappers it changes back to black and stays that way even if you die and have to redo the pencils...so if you want to stick with the change make sure the global light switch isn't one-shot and is activated by proximity to the pencil section check point. HTH | 2010-04-10 00:29:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214 |
| Loved the changes! HUGE difference in camera angles - the Tomatos area is far better, as well as the trapeze area - which how has the "bigger than life" feel it was supposed to have. The part where you grab the weight and go up is much better with the camera pulled back. It doesn't matter to me how the issue with not being able to see where you land is solved at the end of the pencils.... whether it's done through global lighting tool or some way to show the edge of the material you're landing on (I, like fullofwin, got to the end of the pencil section but died and didn't get the benefit of the light change). Great stuff! | 2010-04-10 01:20:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430 |
| My system decided to cooperate with me today, and let me finish your level. Lets see... I left off at... oh yes! the clappers! The music note area was very pretty, I liked the way you used lights as staff bars. I was able to jump forward a plane and skip to the last note... but I guessed that was a feature, not a bug However, in Gonzo's circus, I was able to get behind the boardwalk, and walk past all the flaming buckets (and get stuck inside the one on the right as well )- this didn't seem like it was entirely intended. It took me a long time to figure out how to exit the circus- I was thinking that I was just aiming the right cannon incorrectly, until I found the left cannon. The use of the layer glitch in the circus was quite nice, you created a stellar big top. Loved the characters, I look forward to the next thing from my childhood Sir Gravel decides to illuminate | 2010-04-10 05:46:00 Author: Burnvictim42 Posts: 3322 |
| Thanks Burn- dont see enough of you these days, I wanna make one of those teleporter rooms for LBPCG but it just sounds so strange-- If you get a chance I d love to see one to better conceptualize-- well I hope its a little premature to close this thread out, though I must admit I dont think the level will change to drastically from what it is right now today. By far this has been my most succesful thread and it appears "The Muppet Level" will be my most succesful level. I think now would be as good a time as any to thank everyone who stopped in for a 'quick' read... and dole out hugs to those who posted... and buy a pint for those who really went above and beyond. Beyond. For the first time ever, I feel like I got some momentum... So what comes next? I've got some concepts built and running for "The MUPPET Level: THE LABS". I've got an intro drawn out for "The MUPPET Level: In the Shadow of the Pig" It'll probably be scrapped though as it'd take 1/4 of the thermo-- I also know the level begins and ends at the alter... so that's that! I've written the first scene of a straight-out platformer based on the cartoon, The Clone Wars... and I've been percolating another STAR WARS project entitled simply... THE FORCE which by and large both excites and scares me to death... I've almost put back together the intro to my broken and scrapped IRON GiANT level... and then there's my back catalogue of WATERfalls, Watching The Wheels, GHOsTBUSTERs: HELP WANTED, and finally Harrison's Fjords, all of which may stay or go...not sure. So it's almost time to get the next thing started... I'll continue to keep my ear close to the ground and this thread... Thanks LBPC, and thank you! | 2010-04-10 12:18:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| It doesn't matter to me how the issue with not being able to see where you land is solved at the end of the pencils.... I think another brightly colored spike strip would work perfectly there Gravel, I saw a glass sheet under the last pencil when I played last night. | 2010-04-10 19:59:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428 |
| I think another brightly colored spike strip would work perfectly. Heh.... no, he got it fixed nicely. Slightly changed the background color so the edge of the material could be seen. My son managed to get through this entire level this morning (even though he about broke out in tears twice.... but he STILL wanted to keep going! ). THAT'S the best test to determine a great game... I've been going by that formula for a while now. | 2010-04-10 20:06:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430 |
| My son managed to get through this entire level this morning He's doin' better than me cuz I haven't gotten past the circus area yet. I seriously died about 150 times last night. but he STILL wanted to keep going! Exactly. I loved every minute of it. Even though I was cursing Gravel's name the whole time. 1 star (out of spite, I'll 5 it when I finally get to the end) H+H | 2010-04-10 20:16:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428 |
| I have discovered, "the brighter the spike strip-- the more easily it fits below the full thermometer" I think it's got something to do with 'Dianetics'. So does this mean I should relent and let my five year old take his shot? Or should I wait for one of those days when I really want to see him cry? So ya think I should tweak that glass... never thought about it. | 2010-04-10 21:14:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| So ya think I should tweak that glass... never thought about it. I just didn't remember seeing it until after your last update. I thought maybe it was an accident from when you tweaked the pencils. | 2010-04-10 22:05:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428 |
| I must this level was hell for me to beat wow i wanted to rip my hair out lmao other than the difficult i though it was great level i loved the visuals i love it great work Gravel 5 stars and <3 | 2010-04-11 02:27:00 Author: RiseOvBaphomet  Posts: 35 |
| Beautiful level but I had to give up after running around for 15 minutes not knowing what to do. I got to the circus bit with gonzo. I bounced up and grabbed the sponge, shot out of the cannon, landed by chicken eventually got that cannon and really just kept going in circles. The buckets I found if you try to go behind them you get stuck in them. Maybe I just suck lol but really I had no clue what to do. I could hear applause and music change but didn't notice anything else happening. I will return to it though, I have to beat it! | 2010-04-12 18:20:00 Author: OneEyedBanshee  Posts: 1370 |
| Take the trapeze up above... | 2010-04-12 18:27:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383 |
| Woo I beat it! The characters are all fantastic, really detailed and astonishingly accurate. The fozzie part really broke my heart. I died so many times I'd just manage to grab the edge of one of the ears and I'd just have to kill myself becuase it was hopeless. Not that there was anything wrong with it, it's a level you just can't run through, precision is key. Can you really swing across the trapeze? I thought the spaces were just too far and in the end I got to the end in the cannon, albeit my 50th time being fired out of the thing! All in all great level :star::star::star::star::star: + heart | 2010-04-12 21:05:00 Author: OneEyedBanshee Posts: 1370 |
| I attempted to play this the other day but i have to admit i didnt complete it! It was haaarrrd! lol I loved the details and concept of the level, the characters were amazing. Really well made Gravel! Im going to play it again when im next on to see if i can actually finish it I gave it 5 stars | 2010-04-12 21:14:00 Author: Fenderjt Posts: 1969 |
| Wow! is all I have to say. I'm sure you hear this a lot, but the detail on the characters was absolutely incredible! I am very jealous of your skills. The level was no doubt difficult, but I really didn't mind. We need more levels like this on lbp! It was an easy decision for me to give this level 5 stars and a heart. | 2010-04-23 22:58:00 Author: Dweeble_13  Posts: 18 |
| Thanks again everyone for your comments, I haven't had a lot of success with LBP. This saddled with an underlying self-loathing and a sneaking suspicion, "it is easier to ignore me- than deal with me" probably explains why I am the only creator on this site who could be so elated with a personal best of.... (Tympany-Tympany!) [cue streamers & tote board] eclipsing the 4oo play mark! Keep 'em coming CraftEarthers! Always remember, without you... I'm still me. But with you, I'm... uh, still just me? 400! Oh aren't I impressed with myself? | 2010-04-25 16:11:00 Author: Gravel Posts: 1308 |
| :s woo sorry for the late feedback hehe Anyways... great lvl with awesome details and awesome characters the characters.. are just.. wow.. incredible hard platforming, but cool hearted, :star::star::star::star::star: great job | 2010-04-25 16:27:00 Author: Joey  Posts: 758 |
| I did it Gravel...I'm on the scoreboard. Although I didn't "sting like a bee", I did manage 6th place--Woohoo. I've said this before, and I'll say it again...your creations are Brilliant and Masterful. I think this answers your own question--no one deals with you because "we are not worthy". You are most definitely in a class "all your own". Also, your "Vista" gallery level was amazing as well. A great exhibit of your outstanding creations. I really liked how you incorporated the staircase in the beginning to tie-in to the staircase of the Incredibles background--very well executed. My 5-Star rating brought your average up to a 2--I found the 1-Star appaling...wish I could have done more with that. Bravo!! Bravo!! 5-Stars on the Muppets as well. Rick | 2010-04-25 18:27:00 Author: RickRock_777 Posts: 1567 |
| This level is so hard but intriguing. The character designs are nicely made and really look like those puppets and there's so much tricky moments like a spongy ceiling around the crane and finding a right angle with a cannon. Although there are some things that need to be fixed like the first tomato platform. First up the first tomato doesn't seem to be balanced and you should considered adding a wall of super small dark matter around it's mouth. Second of all, I noticed the explosive elevator appears to have a normal checkpoint instead of infinite checkpoint. Third but not very important, I saw a visible sound object around Gonzo's hand. Last thing to fix is that you need to give us a hint on which cannon we should have gone to instead of the one next to the chicken. Overall it's hard but fun level and I gave it 4 stars and a tag "funny" and I'm one of the lucky ones to finish it. Good level | 2010-04-27 00:19:00 Author: JustinArt  Posts: 1314 |
| Oh? I hear you've further fixed the level, so i guess i'll have to give it another try now, won't I? | 2010-04-27 00:24:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707 |
| I finished it! Not a great score, so I'll try again sometime when I catch me breath. Speaking of breath; your characters were breathtaking. You're an amazing artist. Oh, I did get a hint from someone close to me to just keep swinging, so the trapeze is very doable...just tricky. I felt very rewarded finishing this one. It's the kind of level that makes you try, try and try again. Great work, Gravel. | 2010-04-29 02:51:00 Author: TheCountessZ  Posts: 537 |
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