Archive: 24 posts

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What I want to do: Have a changing camera. For instance, Sackboy runs up to a control panel, and instead of the camera zooming in (one camera angle), I would like it to do something like 1) zoom in, angled right, 2) stay zoomed, but change to front view with no angle, 3) stay zoomed in, become angled left (like one seemless camera movement). What I've tried: Placing 5 camera's (each a 'step' of the expected camera transition - camera 2 would be between the angle right zoom of cam 1 and the straight on no angle shot of cam 3) with active zones around control panel that Sackboy would be on. I set Sackboy's approach to trigger a series of logic that would in turn trigger on/off the cameras in order from left to right. The issues: If I set triggers to on/off, then each camera angle is choppy as it tries to drop back out to default view before switching over to next camera angle. But, if I set triggers to 1 Shot, then it leaves the previous cameras active, thus the final camera is not the zoomed in left, but rather a mix of the cameras (as if you had no triggers, and all the cameras were overlapping zones and all active). What I may try: Setup a line of on/off logic that triggers camera one, triggers camera 2, then untrigger camera 1, trigger cam 3, untrig cam 2, etc. to see if I am able to achiev a smooth transition that way. Better approach? Has anyone tried anything like this or have a better idea on what to try? Thanks...

2010-03-16 18:14:00 Author: SledKnight Posts: 93

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Setup a line of on/off logic that triggers camera one, triggers camera 2, then untrigger camera 1, trigger cam 3, untrig cam 2, etc. to see if I am able to achiev a smooth transition that way. That's probably about the best you can get, and it may still look a bit jerky.

2010-03-16 20:01:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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But, if I set triggers to 1 Shot, then it leaves the previous cameras active, thus the final camera is not the zoomed in left, but rather a mix of the cameras (as if you had no triggers, and all the cameras were overlapping zones and all active). I have no experience with this, but from reading the above I would try to use this mix effect. Say, you have a right view, and you activate a left view that is much farther left than you really need. Then you might be able to tweak the camera to middle out in the right place? Just a wild idea.

2010-03-16 21:28:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Then you might be able to tweak the camera to middle out in the right place? Just a wild idea. In theory, I think that could work in some instances. Unfortunatly, I would like to take advantage of the 'full' close up zoom in a section similar to this, so I have to figure out a way to get to the last camera in it's full setting (instead of being diluted by other active camera views at lower zoom settings)... But thanks for that idea! PS - I'll post results of my Piston Patterned Camera Switching test to tell if it works or not...

2010-03-16 21:51:00 Author: SledKnight Posts: 93

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If you could drop some of the angle movements, you can use pistons to move the camera around so the focus changes. Obviously, this would be hard to implement in conjunction with changing angles but while the angle is the same it's a great way of changing the camera's focal point.

2010-03-16 21:59:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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have you tried emitting activated cameras with a sequencer? you can limit camera interference by ensuring only one angle exists at a time.

2010-03-16 22:33:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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have you tried emitting activated cameras with a sequencer? you can limit camera interference by ensuring only one angle exists at a time. Very interesting idea... can you describe or point to an example of a 'sequencer'? Is that some specific type of Logic that I am unfamiliar with? I'm working on my piston idea... I'm going to try a modified AND switch, where the first piston reaches out to a switch that will activate the camera and the next piston logic. The second (and following pistons) will, when activating the next piston and camera, trigger the secondary piston of the preceding camera, retracting and turning that camera off. Not sure how well it will work, but I would be interested in trying the emmiter idea also (provided there is no audible effects on the emmiter dissolve as there are when you trigger a disolve). Thanks for the idea... I just have to understand the 'sequencer' part...

2010-03-17 21:09:00 Author: SledKnight Posts: 93

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Use a mag key attached to a flipper piston. When a one-shot input activates the flipper piston it moves past mag switches which turn cameras on and off. For best results use grid mode and the hard edge of 180 angle ranges for precise transitions between your cameras.

2010-03-17 22:00:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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Use a mag key attached to a flipper piston. When a one-shot input activates the flipper piston it moves past mag switches which turn cameras on and off. For best results use grid mode and the hard edge of 180 angle ranges for precise transitions between your cameras. I actually tried that first and I kept getting wierd behavior between the transition areas (like it was trying to go from cam1 to no-cam to cam 2 to no-cam to cam 3, etc. instead of cam 1 to cam 2 to cam 3, etc.)... Have you actually done that method successfully? If so, any ideas on what I did wrong?

2010-03-17 22:14:00 Author: SledKnight Posts: 93

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Very interesting idea... can you describe or point to an example of a 'sequencer'? Is that some specific type of Logic that I am unfamiliar with? if you set permanent directional input to a piston that pushes a mag key you have a sequencer. place switches in the path of the key to trigger events in a sequence. So you create camera angles on a piece of DM, shrink them down to invisible, and capture (remember to add an appropriate "on destruct" sound object). I would name them something like C1 and C2 just to differentiate in the poppit. Use the sequencer to trigger camera emitters and use the life setting on the emitters to make C2 emit a split second before C1 demits. Hope this helps

2010-03-18 02:11:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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I think when I made the sequencer I could use grid mode to precisely expand the trigger radius of a mag switch, so the change from one mag switch and camera to the next mag switch and camera is instantaneous. Try using this in combination with the other thing I suggested and it should work alright. NB: One-shot input to a flipper piston is slightly more flexible than permanent directional input as the camera angle sequence can be triggered again, and no extra PERM switch is needed.

2010-03-18 13:38:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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I think when I made the sequencer I could use grid mode to precisely expand the trigger radius of a mag switch, so the change from one mag switch and camera to the next mag switch and camera is instantaneous. Try using this in combination with the other thing I suggested and it should work alright. Even if you can make the transition instantaneous, won't you hit the issue that the cameras take a little while to turn on off, so your instant transition of mag switches will give a jerky camera movement anyway? I'm not 100% sure but I think I tried something like that and the transition was not smooth. It may actually be better to have a very carefully timed overlap, which will give you a view inbetween the two, but it's less than perfect. In honesty, camera zones are very very difficult to work with. Trial and error, and keeping the transitions simple, seems to be the only way to get them working well.

2010-03-18 14:24:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Would this work? Have your five cameras triggered by five mag switches (On/Off) with radii that overlap. Move the mag key along the line with a piston so that at the start it trips the first camera, then moves into the overlapped area so trips the next without shutting off the first, then the first shuts off but the next one is tripped, etc. Until it ends up in only the outer, single radius of the last mag switch (and therefore camera)? Or did I just repeat what you guys were already suggesting, just in different words?

2010-03-18 14:36:00 Author: v0rtex Posts: 1878

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I think when I made the sequencer I could use grid mode to precisely expand the trigger radius of a mag switch, so the change from one mag switch and camera to the next mag switch and camera is instantaneous. Try using this in combination with the other thing I suggested and it should work alright. NB: One-shot input to a flipper piston is slightly more flexible than permanent directional input as the camera angle sequence can be triggered again, and no extra PERM switch is needed. I was just using the piston w/ perm input as a simple example. I don't see how the flipper setting would help since it has to pass each switch going both directions (unless the flipper action is so fast that it doesn't activate the switch). I actually prefer to use wobble bolts. Don't have the time to fully explain it now but if you want I'll make one and send it to you. I had a good example on my level CC08-The Twister but it's been moderated. It wasn't used for camera angles but I'm assuming it could be. If you watch the finalists video (http://www.youtube.com/LBPContraptions#p/u/3/rXKIKo8eeX4) you can kind of see it on the right hand side of the platform. Sorry it's so dark.

2010-03-18 17:40:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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the flipper action is so fast that it doesn't activate the switch[es] Yep.........

2010-03-18 17:59:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Yep......... well then that would probably be the most efficient way of doing it unless you can perfect the sync on the emitters and a timed on/off trigger.

2010-03-18 18:08:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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One-shot input to a flipper piston is slightly more flexible than permanent directional input as the camera angle sequence can be triggered again, and no extra PERM switch is needed. Well, if I were creating a cyclic sequencer, I'd just attach the mag switches to a motor-bolted wheel, and rotate it past a key - much like oLMCo's music boxes.

2010-03-18 18:36:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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well then that would probably be the most efficient way of doing it unless you can perfect the sync on the emitters and a timed on/off trigger. For some reason, all my tests involving a sequencer (the single piston approach) result in wierd jumps between switches (regardless of grid radius adjustments or overlap). It's as if the single key inside the zone of two switches does not know how to behave. Preliminary testing on the multi-piston idea (one key per switch per camera) seems to offer promise. Testing in stages with Switcher logic to observe behavior seems to provide 9 levels of blend with the 5 cameras (the cameras plus the merged effect when two switches are on together). I imagine that the emitter approach would provide a similar result... perhaps with less thermo impact? I am now trying to automate the piston process to see how smooth it is, and if successful I will try adapting it to an emitter version... ... hmmmm... just had a brain storm... I may try the emitter aproach, but rather than spawn the cameras when emitting, I may leave the cameras lined up and create an emitting key, that emits another key, which emits another key, etc. timed to leave only two keys active at one time (I'd have to use a smaller red key on the emitted key block in order to cease key spawning after the last camera point [similar to key logic in the emitter based switcher logic from LogicPack]). Would that be potentially less thermo than the piston method, if you wanted to go beyond 5 cameras? May also provide easier timing control... as you just change the timings on your emmitted key, recapture, and set as your first emmitted item... in theory... I'll keep you posted...

2010-03-18 18:54:00 Author: SledKnight Posts: 93

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[QUOTE=IStwisted;417645]I had a good example on my level CC08-The Twister but it's been moderated.QUOTE] I'll check out the video... but, do you know why you got moderated? I'm terrified of working my butt off on a level only to have it moderated for no good reason (as seemed to be the case for many creators back in 2008, which is when I quit playing LBP). I recently decided to blow the dust off of it, and try my hand at it again, but now that statement strikes fear in me all over... LOL

2010-03-18 18:59:00 Author: SledKnight Posts: 93

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I'll check out the video... but, do you know why you got moderated? I'm terrified of working my butt off on a level only to have it moderated for no good reason (as seemed to be the case for many creators back in 2008, which is when I quit playing LBP). I recently decided to blow the dust off of it, and try my hand at it again, but now that statement strikes fear in me all over... LOL apparently it's some community object I used in the level. You do have the ability to remove objects and try republishing (although they don't actually identify the culprit object) I just screwed up and didn't have a back up. Before they gave us more space on the moon I had deleted to make room for something else and just never got around to copying from the server. As long as you make a back up you should be okay.

2010-03-18 19:15:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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For some reason, all my tests involving a sequencer (the single piston approach) result in wierd jumps between switches (regardless of grid radius adjustments or overlap). It's as if the single key inside the zone of two switches does not know how to behave. why would you have the switch zones overlap. use one shot keys with no overlap to trigger the emitters. the camera angle "overlap" should be accomplished with the timing of the emitters. For a single player just placing the entire zone of angle 2 inside the zone for angle 1 should result in a smooth transition. I only mention emitting cameras with inverted mag switches to avoid the inevitable troubles associated with multiple players. remember: even though you're using switches to trigger the camera angle the zone is still in play EDIT: sorry bout that double post

2010-03-18 19:39:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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UPDATE: So, I was unable to get my emitter-emitting-emitter idea to work (because, as I should have known, you cannot set an emitter to an object that emits itself, lol) BUT, I did manage to the get the sequencer-emitter idea to work. A piston runs a switch with a very narrow active zone/angle horizontally across a bank of keys, each key causes the switch to trigger an emitter on the end of piston (next to the switch), that emitter spawns a key below it with a certain life value. The spawned key activates one switch on the bank of horizontal switches below the piston. Those switches in turn active the connected cameras (being careful to overlap no more than two active switches at one time). The final switch triggers a PERM switch that keeps the last camera activated until the player(s) are outside the camera zone (all camera zones are the same approximate size and require all players, and since they are trapped within the zone until the camera animation is complete, there are not issues with multiplayer incompatibility). By designing the camera bank and emitter bank seperately, I am able to move the emitter logic outside the immediate area, eliminating the 'disolve' sound that is heard when the emitted key disolves. Once I finish testing the design and confirm it is working as expected, I will offer the base logic as a prize in my level. Thanks all, for all the input, and be sure to let me know if you think of a better solution!

2010-03-19 17:20:00 Author: SledKnight Posts: 93

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great question.... I have always wished there was way to expand the view or change angle, I notice it when it comes to vehicles that move in more than one direction. Ive used camera attached to pistons or magic mouths but they dont really work. I like the idea of having a timed or trigger emitter with preset camera angle and zoom, then when that one dissolved replace it with next one which would be set for a different angle and zoom. tonight im going to do some tinkering and see what happens.. If it works i will check back in with hopefully some positive feedback.

2010-03-25 01:49:00 Author: pete007d Posts: 58

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I like the idea of having a timed or trigger emitter with preset camera angle and zoom, then when that one dissolved replace it with next one which would be set for a different angle and zoom. tonight im going to do some tinkering and see what happens.. How'd your test go? I thought about emitting blocks with actual cameras on them, but decided to leave the keys and cameras seperated to ease the process of camera angle tuning (I did not want to change cameras/capture/set-emiter everytime). My tests went very well and I am completely satisified with the quality of the smooth transition between the cameras on my bank. I made a 20 camera bank (each cam slightly different) and run the piston over a 20 second count... worked well.

2010-03-29 17:18:00 Author: SledKnight Posts: 93

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