Archive: 39 posts

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If you could only publish one level a week. Would that fix the cool pages and stop player spaming levels Iam not talking about re-publishing keep that as it is but one new level a week only. I know some levels some time get cut into two but most levels are one level. how do you feel if Mm did this? would players take more care in what they publish

2010-03-13 08:43:00 Author: jump_button Posts: 1014

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Im not sure. when I first started making levels, they only took a few days to make, they were not bomb or shark levels either. this idea would force players to concider spending more time on their levels.

2010-03-13 09:15:00 Author: samalot Posts: 591

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Not a bad sugestion, but IMO Ccubbage posted exactly what MM should do: For instance, the players start using keys and quick junk survivals to get their levels up to the top of page 1 with 500,000 plays... which bullies out good levels. No problem.... change it to have levels on cool levels for 7 days OR until they reach 30,000 plays. Problem solved. If people do these kinds of levels they will get to page 1, but they will also disappear quicker to allow other levels to rise. Or... change the algorithm so that # of plays factors less into the equation. That would also allow non-quick-challenge levels to rise. Or... a person can only have a single level floating on cool levels at a time.

2010-03-13 10:04:00 Author: poms Posts: 383

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Remove republishing bumping it up cool levels completely, or at the very least limit it three times a day. Good levels would make it to the top then, you would'nt need as nearly as many plays to hit the higher regions, and you would'nt have to fight with the constant spamming of the flaw some people do. CCubbage's idea, as normal, is excellent.

2010-03-13 10:12:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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Sorry but, I prefer CCubage's idea

2010-03-13 10:14:00 Author: Doopz Posts: 5592

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Keep it then, but at least rename Cool Levels, "Who Can Spam Publish To Keep Them At The Top Of Cool Pages Until They Stick Levels" or something.

2010-03-13 10:19:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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Yesterday I found a level with a funny title: "THE UNBEATABLE LEVEL. JUST PLAY IT! NOW WITH WATER" This represents perfectly the situation of the actual Cool pages. It's tagged as rubbish, and of course this is what it is. But its in second page, and it will probably reach 1st page this weekend. Notice the imperative in the tittle: "JUST PLAY IT!!". Lol

2010-03-13 10:40:00 Author: poms Posts: 383

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I think we should all just start paying Poms to put keys at the end of his levels when we publish.... Just kidding.... but then again.....

2010-03-13 12:28:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I've been asked to put keys a few times, and I've always declined it. But lately I've been thinking it could be a good idea... The price: just have to put all my keys when/if the level reaches 1st page

2010-03-13 12:40:00 Author: poms Posts: 383

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Pros: Would stop level spammers (or severely slow down), same with bomb survivals, wouldnt affect creators who take their time... Cons: Could prove difficult when submitting for deadlines (i.e contests)

2010-03-13 13:51:00 Author: Matimoo Posts: 1027

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This would reduce spam of crappy levels but as Matimoo said it would be hard with contests, showcases and level series. I would make so that every person can alter their cool level pages with different kind criterias and/or prevent multiple levels of one person levels on cool levels at time.

2010-03-13 15:02:00 Author: waD_Delma Posts: 282

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That would be a really bad idea. To restrict the player on such things is useless, it would only make people go away. You create a level, you want to publish it, that's it. You also might want to republish an older one, correct errors, improve, etc. There's thousands of reasons why you want to publish a level. The problem with the Cool Level Pages is: -horrible interface (just a handful of level can be on the same page) -the player cannot effectively find level for his taste -the algorythm that decides your level is on top Now there ARE solution for this. The # of plays cap is a great idea. You could also have a custom Cool Level page and have better ways to classify levels like by difficulty and genre. All of those solutions are realistic, doable, would fix the Cool Level Pages AND ALSO wouldn't remove people their liberty. .

2010-03-13 18:39:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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How about a "Levels you'd like" Based on your hearted levels. It would be a good suggestion system if the "Share" system was actually good at the root.

2010-03-13 18:52:00 Author: Chump Posts: 1712

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I think limits on play bad idea for ppl that work on a level you do want them to be played, Puting a cap on it give your level no way in hell to get up to the stop all the most play and most hearted and rated. They just add up and up and new levels have no way to get anywhere close to that. I think we do need a Most rated, play, hearted This week,This Month, This Year, All Times

2010-03-13 18:54:00 Author: jump_button Posts: 1014

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Stop it bumping the level when you republish. Problem solved, equal playing field for everyone. Thats all that needs to be done.

2010-03-13 18:58:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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I think limits on play bad idea for ppl that work on a level you do want them to be played, Puting a cap on it give your level no way in hell to get up to the stop all the most play and most hearted and rated. They just add up and up and new levels have no way to get anywhere close to that. I think we do need a Most rated, play, hearted This week,This Month, This Year, All Times What I meant is a cap on the play count that matters for appearing in the Cool Level Pages. Per example, you climb the pages and gain plays. The more popular you get, the more you go up. When it's been seven days you're published, you're out of the Cool Level Pages pool no matter what happened with your levels. Now just imagine there was another criteria that could put you out of the pool, like when you reach 20 000 plays per example. Your level would continue to gather plays, it's not a cap on plays but a cap on "the plays that would count for the Cool Level Pages". I would even make it lower than that. When a level is having 10k plays it means it really had its days. It could leave some place for other levels under the sun, regardless it's been published for 7 days or not. Stop it bumping the level when you republish. Problem solved, equal playing field for everyone. Thats all that needs to be done. This is another bad idea imo. It's really important to be able to republish your level because there's thousand of reasons to republish a level. The problem isn't the republishing system but the way the Cool level pages work. Putting a cap on republishing is the same thing as putting a cap on publishing --- some useless removal of player's liberty and that would affect the enjoyment directly imo. How about a "Levels you'd like" Based on your hearted levels. It would be a good suggestion system if the "Share" system was actually good at the root. If they were using my solution, like adding difficulty levels, genres or any other criteria that would help people finding the right experience, it would be easy to make a very effective "level you'd like" section.

2010-03-13 20:01:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I don't think one a week would work as the noobs within a day or two would realise; "Hey, I'll just make another noob account!"

2010-03-13 22:03:00 Author: KQuinn94Z Posts: 1758

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This is another bad idea imo. It's really important to be able to republish your level because there's thousand of reasons to republish a level. The problem isn't the republishing system but the way the Cool level pages work. Putting a cap on republishing is the same thing as putting a cap on publishing --- some useless removal of player's liberty and that would affect the enjoyment directly imo. You're mis-understanding me, I'm not saying ban republishing, everyone needs it for changes and bug fixes. Every time you republish, the level goes onto page one briefly, so people hit republish over and over again, multiple times per hour (multiple times in 20 minutes from what I've seen) in order for their levels to stay on the highest pages, that's what needs to be stopped, not actual republishing. That way it is a fair system for all. You can republish, but it does'nt bump you up cool levels, you have to get there on merit of plays and ratings only, not how much time and patience you have to spam publish.

2010-03-13 22:29:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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I'm no expert at programing, or debating, but what I think about the Cool Levels is.. 'meh'. Who needs a high play count or recognition when you can be someone as good looking as me? I'm being serious.

2010-03-13 23:24:00 Author: AgentBanana Posts: 511

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@Grant - what if someone insta-rates you a 1-star?

2010-03-13 23:32:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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My ideal Cool Levels Reformations: Remove all star ratings and highly opinionated tags. Remove tags with negative connotations and replace them with tags having positive connotations. Frustrating would be replaced with difficult. Only people that finish the level are allowed to comment, tag, or upload pictures. Add the requirement of a difficulty tag [Easy/Medium/Hard] and category [Platformer/ Survival Challenge/ Vehicle Showcase (etc)] that will automatically be publicly displayed under the level name. Replays and plays are displayed separately. Only conventional plays, not replays, contribute towards the level's registered popularity and cool levels satus. Every new PSN that has been in the level at one time or another is one play. Before you even enter the community section of cool levels, you are given a search feature where you choose between certain difficulties, categories, tags, and page number. You have the option to turn this feature off in profile settings. A level filter removes all levels with H4H, TROPHIES, or other spam-associated titles from eligibility to enter cool levels. A new LBP tutorial is added that explains how to use keys and republishes. Everyone is on the same playing field.

2010-03-14 00:28:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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A level filter removes all levels with H4H, TROPHIES, or other spam-associated titles from eligibility to enter cool levels. Good-bye, 'In the Mind of a H4Her"

2010-03-14 00:35:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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H4Her is different than H4H. lol

2010-03-14 00:41:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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@Grant - what if someone insta-rates you a 1-star? I don't see how the republishing trick would help the rating, I'd just delete it and publish a new one. When I've republished for bug fixes, and there were quite a few in Unhearted 2, my rating actually dropped because of it

2010-03-14 00:55:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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You're mis-understanding me, I'm not saying ban republishing, everyone needs it for changes and bug fixes. Every time you republish, the level goes onto page one briefly, so people hit republish over and over again, multiple times per hour (multiple times in 20 minutes from what I've seen) in order for their levels to stay on the highest pages, that's what needs to be stopped, not actual republishing. That way it is a fair system for all. You can republish, but it does'nt bump you up cool levels, you have to get there on merit of plays and ratings only, not how much time and patience you have to spam publish. The problem with this solution is that the Cool Level Pages would simply need a redesign. People are NOT going down the pages to go play your level, it needs to climb up in the system right now. So your level will climb on merit only if you have good friend support and market your stuff well on the web. I wish the GAME would give my level its merits and for this, that level needs to be accessible easily --- wich is not really the case when you're freshly published right now. My ideal Cool Levels Reformations: Remove all star ratings and highly opinionated tags. Remove tags with negative connotations and replace them with tags having positive connotations. Frustrating would be replaced with difficult. Only people that finish the level are allowed to comment, tag, or upload pictures. . How you would rate level's quality if you remove stars and hearts and whatnot? You need a rating system. Also, hearts are a "favorite system" and not a rating one. Lastly, tags the way they are right now and with your solution it stays the same: they only are a rating system. Those tags should be completely scraps for A REAL TAG SYSTEM. This means the creator can enter 5-10 words to describe his level and when people search those words it will make their level pop. .

2010-03-14 03:36:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Idk. But I stand by my opinion that we don't need ratings. We've all seen the way good levels get downrated because of being hard, and there's a level with nothing but prizes, mainly logic pack switch prizes, on cool levels right now with 5 stars and tens of thousands of plays. This is why I think we need more ways for MM to direct players towards the category of levels they like.

2010-03-14 05:58:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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Yes we need more ways. The real problem is the way the default Cool Level Pages work. If the criterias were set by you, there would not be such problems. Removing ratings isn't the solution, it's the Cool Level pages system that is currently quite broken. I would rename this section of the game to simply be "Community Level pages" and what appears in there would be according YOUR criterias. Per example, you could say "ok, by default I want to see the "hard / survival challenges / highest rated" appear there. Basically, it's like the community section would simply be a search, no need to go in the current search sub-section. The if MM really wants a showcase, they could add a page where it would be "Media Molecule's favorites" or something. Great levels chosed by a paid human at Media Molecule. .

2010-03-14 06:20:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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changes like these in the system might be too overwhelming, what with 2 million + levels to manage. I'm starting to see reason in a LBP2... Also, I think a 'users who enjoyed this level also enjoyed...' option in 'find more' would be cool. Also, all Mmpicks ought to be posted on the info moon. I don't understand why they don't use that at all. It would be so awesome, and I don't think very difficult... I mean, they posted levels for the survival challenges thing. I think that they don't already do this is absolute laziness and unacceptable.

2010-03-14 07:32:00 Author: monstahr Posts: 1361

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hmm don't know

2010-03-14 20:43:00 Author: puppet88 Posts: 113

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I'm sort of with grant on this one. Stop repulishing bumping levels and to counteract the things that people have said against this, add a promo button which does the bump. Promo is limited to x per day. That way you have means to bump yourself on coolpages (which most people in itself don't see as a bad thing), but you don't have the ability to spampublish. As for play counts, I still maintain that there should be a change in the weighting of total number of plays. However, there should probably be a cap on the total number of plays having an effect, based upon the total number of people who have played. Once you start getting a situation where the total number of plays is over 3 times more than the number of people who have played, I'd start to doubt that this is indicative of replay value, or relatively cheap, fast-food, addictive gameplay that leads to restarts. alternatively, don't count replays within a certain timeframe. i.e. if I play a level 5 times in a row, that counts as one play, but if I play 5 times, once each day, then that counts as 5 plays. This again would help to push against the highly addictive, quickly start again survival level effect. At the end of the day though, better tagging and genre-based searching is the way forwards

2010-03-14 23:30:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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It does seem a little extreme, but I like this idea. It's a much tamer version of a pay-for-unlimited-publishing idea I had a long time ago that I knew was unreasonable, and would actually hurt things for people who make great levels but wouldn't or couldn't afford it. I also like the ideas of Ccub's that were quoted in here. I actually also agree with Gruntos... alot of middle ground and rights on all sides here.

2010-03-14 23:55:00 Author: Unknown User

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Unfortunately, if you remove the republishing trick this creates another huge domino affect - having keys in levels will become a bigger way to get plays than republishing - which will suddenly give certain creators who have levels at the top of highest rated a HUGE benefit for getting plays that others simply don't have..... which will result in a lot more players trying to get their levels to page 1 of highest rated by forming big groups that will rate 5 star. This would simply shift the issue to another place instead of solving it. I personally think simply balancing the system would go a long way (refer to my earlier list), but being able to separate by genres would also help.

2010-03-15 00:33:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I think there should be a good grief system but for level abuse. (Ex: To report publishing the same levels and bumping all of them to the cool levels, clogging multiple level slots.) Although, since the only way a moderator could deal with that would be to delete the levels, a feature like that might be abused more than regular good griefing. Not to mention that the mods do an awful job of the regular good griefing as it is.

2010-03-15 03:22:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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The Good Grief feature is another poison to the community's experience. If we had a REAL report system that is CAREFULLY designed it would have helped. Right now, kids and watnot can report-spam so easily. We would need a report system where we chose a category for the exact thing we report. Per example your report could be towards a user, a comment, an uploaded image or a level. And then you'd need to write what the problem is. It's longer but would be infinitely more precise, easier to moderate for Sony guys, and would GREATLY reduce spamming.

2010-03-15 17:30:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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No because what if you were working on more than 1 level at a time and they're finished.

2010-03-17 01:47:00 Author: Shhabbazz Posts: 746

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No because what if you were working on more than 1 level at a time and they're finished. Well, if they allowed you to only have 1 level on cool pages, but you could publish more than one this would solve the issue.... you could place a key in the level floating on cool pages and get plays for both.... but the cool levels would still be fair for other creators who also would like to get some plays.

2010-03-17 02:15:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Im afraid if there was one day in the week that you could publish that it would overload the servers with uploads...

2010-03-17 02:30:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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Im afraid if there was one day in the week that you could publish that it would overload the servers with uploads... I think they mean publish once within a 7 day period.

2010-03-17 02:38:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Only people that finish the level are allowed to comment, tag, or upload pictures. What about levels that are very hard to complete or are just plain unfair? You can't warn others about the quality of a level then and for them to steer clear. People normally know whether or not to bother with a level within the first 5 seconds. Thus people that finish are only those that took a liking to it instantly or were asked to play it as a favour to the author. This means that they are likely to tag and rate positively anyway making the system pointless. If you make the tagging and rating system pointless then it becomes harder for players to search for good levels, and this is only made worse if all the negative tags are removed. I get the feeling the community is split threefold between 1) Dedicated Creators (Anyone who has bothered to join a fansite) 2) Little Kids (not fussed about putting effort into creating) 3) People who don't know any better (quality of level-wise) People who don't know any better play the little kids levels and rate averagely or high. The little kids rate down the dedicated creators works to promote their own works. The people who don't know any better don't generally make any levels for the dedicated creators to play. I think a complete rework of the system needs to happen, but firstly for fairness sake they need to Ax the republishing exploit and not let creators have more than one level on any page the cool pages at a time (only shows the highest rated of the two)

2010-03-17 02:49:00 Author: Asbestos101 Posts: 1114

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