Archive: 5 posts

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So in my vehicle tools level (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=22150-Vehicle-tools-Tilt-and-motion-sensor-and-control-pod-%28Copyable%29), I included a sample control pod that I like to use for vehicle making (particularly mechs). Sackboy runs on top of a wheel, which turns a gear, which pushes a pointer, which relays a directional signal to a remote 3way. End result is: Sackboy runs right=vehicle goes right and so on. It's nice because it's a more natural control scheme than running back and forth between grab switches, plus it means you can keep the grab switch available for something like shooting. The sample has an open top, but obviously, it's easy enough to close the top and put a wall in front of it to keep sackboy from falling out. Anyway, you can map 3-4 functions with this pod: direction (or you could make left and right do separate functions for something other than a vehicle), grab, and tap-grab. Buuuuuuut.... I'm greedy. I want another function assigned to the jump button and this is where my problem comes in. For a stationary control pod, all I would have to do is include a sensor switch or a button above sackboy that he can jump up to trigger, but in a moving vehicle, he tends to get tossed around the pod a bit. So I rigged a pusher to push him down onto the wheel (made it sponge so it can hold the grab switches). The problem is that it either pushes too hard or not hard enough: too hard and sackboy can't jump high enough to trigger anything; not hard enough and hitting any kind of bump will trigger it. My current configuration actually has both problems: If I'm running when I jump, it often won't have enough force to push against the pusher, but a hard enough impact against the vehicle (such as landing from a jump) will trigger the jump switch. So I've pretty much concluded that it's probably not possible to make the pod any better than that, but I thought I'd ask for any suggestions before I wrote off the jump switch option. Any suggestions? A few quick details: the pusher uses a directional piston because a spring was too bouncy and triggered too easily. When you're standing still and jump straight up, it's easy to overcome the pusher (it'll register the jump every time), but when trying to run to the side, you lose a lot of your jumping force laterally and don't get to apply as much to the vertical pusher. Without a pusher, sackboy tends to float off the wheel whenever the vehicle is decending (like coming down from a jump or a bump in the road) and I want the player to keep directional control at all times (the mech has short term flight during jumps and I want the player to be able to control direction during flight).

2010-03-13 00:20:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I've found that the most reliable way to have a jump-related function in my mechs was to have a piece of sponge that Sackboy had to jump to reach and then grab. I used to have a simple sensor switch to trigger jump jets for a specific amount of time, but since I wanted to allow the players to decide for how long they wanted the jets on, I opted for a grab switch instead. A sensor switch determines whether Sackboy is in the front half or back half of the control area and sets the direction accordingly (there is no option for jumping in place because I found it to be too unstable). I've never actually thought of using a wheel for a directional control mechanism, that's pretty ingenious, but I can see where gravity would cause all sorts of problems when falling. So Sackboy runs on top of the wheel? Would it be possible to surround him on either side with slanted walls instead of using a pusher to counter the effect of gravity?

2010-03-13 01:20:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Slanted walls was my original approach, but the problem is when the mech (or any vehicle) goes into free-fall, sackboy just kind of hangs above it and every time you try to run, it causes you to rebound off the wheel and back into the air. Hence the pusher to keep him on the wheel. Since all the pusher needs to do is exceed the force that keeps sackboy up (his inertia) by a little bit, it actually works pretty well. Another problem with the wheel approach is when the vehicle tilts, you lose traction with the wheel (your feet point down, and the wheel isn't necessarily directly below you any more). Of course, I'm always out to make my mech tilt as little as possible, so if I can solve that problem, I won't need to worry about the wheel tilting. Possible solutions are to slant the walls as you said and expose more of the wheel so sackboy can still be running on it when the pod tilts somewhat, or the whole control pod could be rigged to counter-tilt using a tilt relay such as the one I showcased in my vehicle tools level. One last problem with the wheel is sackboy can end up squished between it and the where the walls meet it: you have to keep the gap between them as small as possible. As for the jumping via grab switch, I used that method in the VT-04 (you can jump and grab or press up and grab). The Mk II worked off a sensor switch when you jumped, but you could grab onto the roof and hang to extend your jump. The VT-04 would always jump forward unless you specifically pushed backward (though it didn't work as well as I'd like due to sackboy floating). What I'm going for now is to get as close as possible to directly translating the player's button presses to vehicle controls. I want to avoid any combos (up+grab, jump+grab, etc): they're too much trouble for such simple actions that you want to be able to do reflexively, and I want to avoid making the player have to think about where in the cockpit their sackboy is. I also want to get as close as possible to 100% reliability (it's frustrating when a game has sloppy controls and you die because the jump button didn't actually make you jump). I've got the directional controls to where they're 100% reliable (or at least pretty darn close): every time I press right, I go right, and when I let go I stop and the pusher seems to work really well for mid-air directional control. There's a little bit of input lag, but it's tiny, and it's not like you really expect a walking tank to start/stop on a dime. The grab switch is 100% reliable (didn't have to do anything special for that, obviously). The jump switch is 100% reliable when standing still, about 90% when running left, and about 40% when running right. I hadn't tested left much before my previous post so I didn't know it worked better and I still can't figure out why. The sides of the pod were pretty darn near symmetrical: I actually got right-jump up from 0% to 40% by making it LESS symmetrical. So yeah, still experimenting and tweaking like crazy, trying to get it just right. If it works, I'll add it to my vehicle tools level. In the meantime, I still welcome any suggestions.

2010-03-13 02:09:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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How complex are your grab switches themselves? Tap, double tap, and grab can be configured to one switch. What about a type of slider? You can grab a sponge and push it inwards for an extra feature. You could also make it lock in with winches until grabbed.

2010-03-13 02:22:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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I'll almost certainly use grab and tap (primary weapon=grab and secondary weapon=tap, or fire=grab and tap=switch weapons or maybe I can use tap for a kind of "slide" like in Steel Battalion) and I'll probably use double tap to open the mech up so the player can get out (having the player able to move between the front and back seats in the VT-04 to open it up was a terrible idea). I appreciate the suggestion though. I am pretty set on using the jump button to make the mech jump, and I think I've pretty much got it now: it's still not 100% but the majority of problems seem to happen when the vehicle is tilted and I try to make my mechs as tilt-proof as possible, so I don't think it'll be much of a problem. I'll also have to rig logic to prevent jumping while in the air (which I already use in the VT-04) and then extend it to about half a second after landing to keep landing impacts from triggering the jump switch. Still, I'd love to hear ideas on making the jump button work better if anybody has any. I'm probably going to make a jumping wheeled vehicle using the control pod too. RobotCrash came to my test level and thought of a pretty cool level idea for the rover, so we may end up actually making a level out of it.

2010-03-13 02:53:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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