Archive: 10 posts

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Ok I will make this quick as I want 1 hour of LBP gaming before my bro b00ts up FF13 again. Adi showed me a few levels with glitched materials in them.. And as there was a Metal-looking Dark matter I wanted to use this to minimise the amouth of DM I have to hide on spots. Then I started to think about it, What If I remove all the ODM (Original dark matter) and replace them with the (basic) metal looking DM. So I created a small test level. Added a basic metal floor, walls and ceiling. I glued them into place with the "Basic Metal Dark Matter" and looked at the thermo. No thermo gain yet. then I just added one small cube of ODM (Original Dark Matter), thermo went up. What does this mean. Enginewise, the engine does not see the "Metal Dark Matter" as "DM" with another material. No, the engine actully changes something in the "orginal Metal" code (probably a simple on/off in the code) to make the metal go DarkMatter. (as in, no physics) It seems when you place an Original DM in your level, the material on that Dark Matter is actually costing most of the memory when placed. If you have a lot of sponge in your level, and use the "Sponge-Dark matter" you can save a little on your thermo! Now, If you create your logic with the same "Sponge-Dark matter" and "Sponge Dissolve" and "Sponge Glass" you actually do not load the Dark Matter, Dissolve and Glass materials, meaning you can use that spare thermo for more rooms/logics/whatever (depending on what you are maxxing out). From now on, I will NEVER EVER use ODM (Original Dark Matter) again, unless its visually part of my level. So, go do a search on glitched materials, update your list with all kinds of glitched dissolved, cardboards, Dark Matters, Glasses etc and optimise your future levels even more!!!

2010-03-08 12:11:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136

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This is epic luos i have got to try this tonight awesome well done on posting this up, thanks a load.

2010-03-08 12:13:00 Author: lbpholic Posts: 1304

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I think this makes up for me being an "a hole" most of the time, As well as posting in the CC10 thread about the cc crew being tard as I got disqualified for not living in Europe while I do live in europe.

2010-03-08 12:27:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136

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Lol did that really happen? i played yours luos and it was pretty awesome mine is rubbihs tho.

2010-03-08 12:51:00 Author: lbpholic Posts: 1304

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Now, If you create your logic with the same "Sponge-Dark matter" and "Sponge Dissolve" and "Sponge Glass" you actually do not load the Dark Matter, Dissolve and Glass materials, meaning you can use that spare thermo for more rooms/logics/whatever (depending on what you are maxxing out). This isn't entirely accurate. You aren't going to find yourself able to create more level. You will be able to add extra materials in, but who really maxxes out their materials thermo? In essense, this all comes down to the common misconception that using a wide variety of materials wastes thermo. It doesn't, or at least not in the way people think. It wastes one aspect of the thermo. Freeing up space in the materials thermo will simply do that, free up more space for more materials. Seeing as most people only use 5 materials because they don't really understand basic thermo optimisation anyway, it's rare that this will actually be of any use. On the other hand, it is a useful insight into the thermo calc: materials thermo is based upon the visual aspects of the material in question, rather than the physically properties. We probably could have guessed this previously, but this actually proves it. If you actually want to use the cow glitch to get more thermo for constructing your level, then this is not the way. You can achieve thermosaving by using darkmatter glitched to look like another material and integrate it into your scenery. So, rather than having walls and floor made out of stone, with a small triangle of dark matter support, have walls made out of stone and floor made out of DM glitched to look like stone. Overall you save the objects / complex shapes / collected objects thermo that is taken up by a small triangle. Not much, but if you have a level made in many sections then it will probably help. But the materials thermo is basically moot here, you cannot leverage that to increase the size of your level. It's an interesting discovery nonetheless, the fact that the materials thermo is based around the visual aspects of the material, rather than the physical properties is a useful thing to know.

2010-03-08 13:09:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Ok, So I made a misconception, it does mean you can use more other materials before the material thermo gets full. this is good for people like me, who tend to create massive levels with lots of details and variation.

2010-03-08 13:24:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136

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Hmm, I'll have to remember this for the next time I run into the material limit. I don't suppose this helps make room for more collectable objects like vases?

2010-03-08 15:57:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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then I just added one small cube of ODM (Original Dark Matter), thermo went up. What does this mean. It actually confirms my suspicion that the "materials thermo" is actually measuring the combined sizes of all textures in use for texture mapping. The instant you added the 'ODM' block, the game needs a texture which isn't already in use, so the thermo will go up. Another time you can see this is when you add a two-way switch to a level which contains only a three-way switch. The thermo doesn't increase at all, presumably because the two-way switch uses only a subset of textures already in use by the three-way. This implies that it's not just the textures of 'materials' which matter, but all objects, gadgets, etc. Some other experiments have shown that some materials have larger textures than others, so changing all materials of one type to another can make a difference to the thermo as well. As for why the limitation exists, my previous speculation (http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=creationgen&message.id=34617#M34617) was... I'm wondering if the reason for the texture limitation is based on the underlying PS3 graphical rendering API, i.e. that when you render 3D graphics using the hardware, all the textures have to fit into a hardware texture buffer which only has room for so many. ...which looking at this page (http://corvillus.com/2006/07/30/playstation-3-has-less-texture-memory-than-the-xbox-360/) comparing the PS3 and Xbox360, seems to be a fairly accurate guess.

2010-03-08 18:12:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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It actually confirms my suspicion that the "materials thermo" is actually measuring the combined sizes of all textures in use for texture mapping. The instant you added the 'ODM' block, the game needs a texture which isn't already in use, so the thermo will go up. Another time you can see this is when you add a two-way switch to a level which contains only a three-way switch. The thermo doesn't increase at all, presumably because the two-way switch uses only a subset of textures already in use by the three-way. This implies that it's not just the textures of 'materials' which matter, but all objects, gadgets, etc. Some other experiments have shown that some materials have larger textures than others, so changing all materials of one type to another can make a difference to the thermo as well. As for why the limitation exists, my previous speculation (http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=creationgen&message.id=34617#M34617) was... ...which looking at this page (http://corvillus.com/2006/07/30/playstation-3-has-less-texture-memory-than-the-xbox-360/) comparing the PS3 and Xbox360, seems to be a fairly accurate guess. I think you might be right. I think the materials thermo is also influenced by whether the object has the same proporties.( Ex. Lots of spoge of different kinds uses less thermo of lots of materials with different properties.)

2010-03-08 19:39:00 Author: Deviantgeek Posts: 386

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That….is some interesting stuff, to say the least. Glad to have learned this. Thanks Luos!

2010-03-08 23:50:00 Author: Ragfell Posts: 729

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