Archive: 27 posts

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OK, I haev hit a plethora of bugs with emitted brain points displensers. The concept is, I have a simgle brain emitter. This will emit x brains which will instantly kill themselves. The emitter is triggered by a mag switch, which is in turn activalted by 35 emitters, which simply emit a key. My initial plan was to have the mag switch set to on / off and use the lifetimes on the other emitters to determine how many points would be given out. This works fine, for the most part. However, occasionally I found that it would just not stop giving out points. Checking in create mode I found that all of the key emitters were not emitting anything, the magnetic switch was not activated, but the brain emitter kept on emitting. I managed to stop the brain emitter by inverting the switch and then uninverting it. Not sure there is any fix for this, just thought I'd put it out there as a warning to others. So I ditch that idea and decide to use one-shot triggers rather than on/off. It's less flexible, but I thought it would get around the issue above. So I'm emitting 6 brains, which should give out 600 points (6 x 50 x 2). All 6 brains are emitted, all 6 die and a 2x multiplier shows up in the corner of a screen. 300 points get added to my score. What do people think? I'm guesing this is some bug with all brains dying at the same time stops the multiplier from kicking in? But i'm not convinced. doberdave's million points bubble registers the combo, so I'm not sure why this wouldn't. Help anyone?

2010-03-06 17:52:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I think I have a solution to your little problem, but we'll see how it goes. Basically I will use a set-reset, where the emit sets it and the demit resets it. You think it might solve the problem? I'm off to test it out.

2010-03-06 19:01:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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That sounds like a very good idea. The chances are that it won't even need a set reset. A directional piston should probably do the trick. In my experience directional signals into pistons seem to be the most stable of all logic. I can probably just put the emitter at the end of the piston emitting at 0.1s and block the brains when it is not extended a la brain chain BTW, testing out might be difficult as I'm not sure how to reproduce the issue (appears to be intermittent).

2010-03-06 19:10:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Yeah, you were right on with suggesting there might be problems with duplicating... I couldn't get the problem. I had a big 150 emitter section going, but it wouldn't break. When I suggested that idea, the directional came to mind, but I wasn't sure if that would solve any problems. As in, if the On/Off switch breaks, would the Directional? That was what I was going to test, but I don't know why it wasn't breaking like in yours.

2010-03-06 20:19:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Well I tried it before I got drunk and my coat got stolen and I got in a really bad mood (seriously, I love that coat ), but from what I remember, trying it seemed to mostly fix it, although the payout varied between 150 and 200 pts. I assumed this was down to the fact that one-shot activated emitters sometimes don't emit for the time they are supposed to (as you found in the incremental bolts thread), but then I swapped it all to on/ off and it all went wonrger. Will have another look tomo I think, n ot sure whats going on right now,

2010-03-07 01:11:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Haha. You sound like Grant...

2010-03-07 01:38:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Hmmmm, well I'm currently struggling to get it to emit a fixed number of brains based upon a timer and I still can't get emitted brains to register a combo. That latter one is really confusing me if I'm to be honest. I think I'm using protected brains, so I'll have to look into whether that's part of the issue. Maybe also look into firing the brains at a wall rather than killing them via switches. Did you have any issues with combos not registering in all mine comph?

2010-03-07 12:55:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Well, are you emitting the brains at high speed? Sometimes the dying brains block the emit for the new ones. I found that shooting them out really fast tends to help. Are you talking about the sound, or just the combo itself. If you're online now, I'll show you the payout system for All Mine!, as well as my newfound solution using your method. It pays out 1200 points per secret, which I think is what you wanted.

2010-03-07 13:03:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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It's actually registering the value of the points that is the problem - 5 brains pays out 250 pts. Admittedly it's predictable so I could just emit more brains, but it kinda worries me that this might get fixed at some point. Also the sound doesn't happen if you are too far away from the dying brains, but that's not really an issue Most likely I'll be online later so I'll come have a look. It's annoying that some of these issues might only be apparent when actually placed into the level and of course things like the points can't be conveniently tested in create mode

2010-03-07 13:10:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Well, another thing to consider, which I discovered faffing around with Holguin yesterday, is that if you have collected points prior to finding the secrets, but didn't get a combo on them, then the brain emitter will pay out more, due to the combo "glitch." Combos apply to all point collected since the last combo or death. It can have quite a big difference if someone is patient enough to collect all the bubbles in the level without getting any combos. Then again, this is the case in the level already, it's just that nobody has that kind of patience with this one.

2010-03-07 14:01:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I still can't get emitted brains to register a combo. After experimenting, it seems it's nothing to do with the fact that the brains are emitted, but that you're (presumably) killing them with a one-shot trigger. The same odd behaviour occurs even with non-emitted brains, regardless of whether they're protected or not. The only way I've found to remotely destroy brains and still get the combo, is to destroy them by firing a paintball from an emitter at them. Check out my copyable level "Combo Brain Gun Example for rtm223".

2010-03-07 20:19:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Oh nice! Way to go, Aya! Very clever.

2010-03-08 02:42:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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After I saw you log a score on that level I tried it and none of the brains died. I don't really understand how, seeing as it was clearly working for you and you didn't republish in between..... Was strange. I did come to a similar conclusion to you that it was nothing to do with the emitters, but didn't know about the paintball thing so thanks for that.

2010-03-08 10:04:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Brains are buggy nontheless. try putting one on a Start-race gate. on very rare occasions the race gate will not work due to the brain affecting its "code" .

2010-03-08 12:00:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136

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After I saw you log a score on that level I tried it and none of the brains died. I don't really understand how, seeing as it was clearly working for you and you didn't republish in between..... Was strange. Actually, I was playing through comphy's new level a few times, and when I went back to retry that level I published, the same thing happened to me. I shut down and restarted LBP, and then it started working again. I'm not sure if this means that it's just my demo level which is unreliable, or whether there's an intermittent problem with emitting paintballs at brains generally. There's one other way I can think of killing a brain remotely, and that's emitting a vulnerable brain attached indirectly to a leg or wheel into something dangerous, but that doesn't seem to give any points at all. I'll have another play with this to see if I can find a more reliable method. Brains are buggy nontheless. try putting one on a Start-race gate. on very rare occasions the race gate will not work due to the brain affecting its "code" . Ah. I suggested this might be the problem with the Arena of the Gladiators to TheAdipose a couple of weeks ago in a post on LBW (http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=creationgen&message.id=41173#M41173), but I never got a reply, so I never did find out whether it got resolved or not. But you're correct - creature brains can be a real pain in the butt at times, and are best avoided if there's another way to achieve a similar result.

2010-03-08 12:46:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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There's one other way I can think of killing a brain remotely, and that's emitting a vulnerable brain attached indirectly to a leg or wheel into something dangerous, but that doesn't seem to give any points at all. Yeah, me and comphy tried that too, caused us quite a bit of confusion when no score got added lol. At the moment I'm working on the theory that as long as the killswitch activated brains never give out combos, then I may as well use that. I'll just have to keep an eye on it when future updates come out. Seeing as all of this is centralised it shouldn't be too much hassle to fix up the timings if it ever does get patched. I doubt it will as the implications for destroying leaderboards would be rediculous and MM tend to avoid fixing things that could have an adverse effect on existing published levels. Comphy's All Mine leaderboard would be a joke - each secret would change from 2,400pts to 24,000 points!

2010-03-08 13:14:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Yeah, me and comphy tried that too, caused us quite a bit of confusion when no score got added lol. I guess the distinction is whether the game deems the player to have killed the brain (which gives points) versus the creature just having committed suicide (which doesn't). At the moment I'm working on the theory that as long as the killswitch activated brains never give out combos, then I may as well use that. That may well be the only reliable method of killing brains - it's just unfortunate that the score counter indicates that you should receive a multiplier, and then fails to deliver. I quite suprised that the paintball method is only reliable some of the time - having re-tested it, it only seems to be the case with emitted paintballs, and doesn't occur if a player attempts to shoot one with a paintinator. The other option would be to just use score bubbles. If it's a case of rewarding a player for finding a secret area, you could just put a large cache of score bubbles somewhere in the area, or, something similar to what jackofcourse did for IA2 where he emits a pile of bubbles when you grab one of the flickering lights. The advantage of this option is that you don't get the inconsistency with the score multiplier. I doubt it will as the implications for destroying leaderboards would be rediculous and MM tend to avoid fixing things that could have an adverse effect on existing published levels. If only Sony Cambridge were that careful with LBP PSP patches (q.v. the 2.03 fiasco).

2010-03-08 13:45:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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I guess the distinction is whether the game deems the player to have killed the brain (which gives points) versus the creature just having committed suicide (which doesn't). But what if you pushed the creature off a cliff into some gas? I want mah points!!!! That may well be the only reliable method of killing brains - it's just unfortunate that the score counter indicates that you should receive a multiplier, and then fails to deliver. I haven't actually got around to checking whether it still applies the multiplier to points bubbles that you get at the same time. I think I saw it do that yesterday, but need to make sure. I quite suprised that the paintball method is only reliable some of the time - having re-tested it, it only seems to be the case with emitted paintballs, and doesn't occur if a player attempts to shoot one with a paintinator. I noticed the object I sent you worked fine during the create session when I made it, then stopped working when I got it out again later. I assume it was broken when it got to you too? The other option would be to just use score bubbles. Takes up too much thermo sadly, which is the whole reason I'm in this predicament!

2010-03-09 01:45:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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But what if you pushed the creature off a cliff into some gas? I want mah points!!!! Tough. I haven't actually got around to checking whether it still applies the multiplier to points bubbles that you get at the same time. I think I saw it do that yesterday, but need to make sure. I don't see how that helps, but whatever. I noticed the object I sent you worked fine during the create session when I made it, then stopped working when I got it out again later. I assume it was broken when it got to you too? I sent you a PSN message about it. It was working fine, but I've noticed mine seems to work if it's the first thing you try after starting up LBP, but something happens eventually which prevents it from working until you restart LBP. Takes up too much thermo sadly, which is the whole reason I'm in this predicament! I assume it's for your SS redux, in which case I can believe it. However, I think I've just come up with an awesome new way to cheat the thermo. I'm just doing some more tests to confirm, and if I'm right, I'll make a post about it later.

2010-03-09 11:45:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Of course, if I were to simply emit prize bubbles in such a way that they block each other, the whole construction of the secrets would be simpler, I'd save a bunch of collected objects thermo (possibly lose a little complex shapes therm but probably not enough to get upset over). I can easilly control the payout using total max emitted, it just means that the player will need to hang around for a second or so to get all the points. Not entirely sure how this might work down the tunnels, but I'm sure I can think of something. Am curious to know what Aya's theory is though, so I'll wait patiently on that

2010-03-09 13:16:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Am curious to know what Aya's theory is though, so I'll wait patiently on that Now posted here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=23674-How-To-Cheat-The-Thermo).

2010-03-09 14:44:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Maybe also look into firing the brains at a wall rather than killing them via switches. so... firing brains at a non-lethal wall yields points but dropping them in a hazard doesn't? What happens if you use a prox 1 shot to kill them and emit them within range of the player?

2010-03-09 16:02:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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Now posted here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=23674-How-To-Cheat-The-Thermo). SO I assume your idea is that I ditch the external brain alltogether, strip out some complex objects from the level, replace them using your new technique and then just use bubbles for my secrets still? It could work, there a quite a few facades around the place that a very complex, arbitrary shapes in the thin layers so they would be perfect candidates for this. Hell I might even be able to get enough thermo to fit a waterfall in the ending sequence. Still not sure ow "safe" this thing is though. Considering I get kicked out of the game / system freezes at least every half hour, I wonder if it's worth risking it.... At least I don't have to decide just yet.

2010-03-10 02:28:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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SO I assume your idea is that I ditch the external brain alltogether, strip out some complex objects from the level, replace them using your new technique and then just use bubbles for my secrets still? Well, it depends which thermos you're currently max'ed out on. If it's 'collected objects', then I don't think my technique is going to help. However I'm still a little fuzzy as to what things contribute to which thermos. It could work, there a quite a few facades around the place that a very complex, arbitrary shapes in the thin layers so they would be perfect candidates for this. Hell I might even be able to get enough thermo to fit a waterfall in the ending sequence. Well, I just did another test, and there's a method which might make it easier retrofit this technique to an existing level:- Emit DM block Material change it to match an existing component's material Copy and paste the existing material over the emitted block Delete the original, and move the new one into place i.e. pasting over an emitted block of the same material counts as 'extending' it, which seems to retain the thermo savings. Still not sure ow "safe" this thing is though. Considering I get kicked out of the game / system freezes at least every half hour, I wonder if it's worth risking it.... At least I don't have to decide just yet. Ouch. That's not a good sign. Any idea what's causing it?

2010-03-10 14:07:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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Emit DM block Material change it to match an existing component's material Copy and paste the existing material over the emitted block Delete the original, and move the new one into place This is really nice actually, makes the whole thing so much easier to work with. Ouch. That's not a good sign. Any idea what's causing it? Just the level. It's too big and the game is way less stable with big levels since the last update. Sucks really.

2010-03-11 00:27:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Hmm, maybe I can come up with something, as unrealistic as it sounds.

2010-03-20 16:56:00 Author: X-FROGBOY-X Posts: 1800

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Well I did make some progress on this, since I last posted. I currently have the following system in place: Any secrets that are hidden out of view are simple emitters, set to max=5 max at once=1 Frequency=0.1s These emit empty prize bubbles, so give out 5x50x2 pts = 500. The thermo cost of a prize bubble is very small (complex shapes seems to put it as a perfect circle or something) and it takes up a LOT less collected objects than some kind of sensor triggering an offscreen emitter emitting a DM square with a mag switch on. For the ones that are in view, I may or may not use the same technique, alternatively I realised that I could trigger emit paintballs rather than dm squares with mag keys on them. So if I set the emitters to emit a max number of paintballs at 0.1s, I could trigger brains based upon that, and easilly control the number of brains emited as well. I had to use some dissolve and one-shot emiters to actually detect paintballs at 0.1s, but overall that's cheaper on the thermo than the emitted dark matter pieces with magnetic keys on, except for in terms of the moving objects, but that is not a concern in this instance. As for the brains, I'm just going to kill by switch, and have worked the thermo so that I can easilly swap out the number of brains and still get the same scores if a future patch fixes up the combo generation issue.

2010-03-20 17:19:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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