Archive: 14 posts

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I'm making a level that consists mostly of caves. I've already drawn most of it out on paper. As I'm new to level creation, I'd like to know the best way to put down the "skeleton" of the level (i.e. the walls floors and ceilings of all the tunnels), that will give me the fewest headaches later. I was thinking of creating a huge block in the rear thick layer, and just cutting into it to create all my tunnels that will eventually become detailed. However, I don't know if that will cause me to end up with a shape that is too complex (too many vertices. Maybe the best way is to make every individual room or tunnel its own separate entity with its own little dark matter support, so I can generally do what I want without blowing something else up. I'm also wondering if I should create the skeleton of the level in just the rear thick layer, or fill it up to all 3 thick layers. Although I have a feeling it would get cut into hundreds of pieces as a result, because of any features I put in that are thinner. Does anyone have advice about this sort of thing? Thanks! And hello, by the way, I'm new! My wife just got this game from my birthday, and I love it so far, just creating a few contraptions in create mode. I've made levels for Unreal Tournament and Counterstrike before, but this level editor is a lot easier to learn.

2010-03-04 17:13:00 Author: dkeesto Posts: 6

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Im still slightly confused as to what you are asking, but i have a couple tips -Avoid using to much glue, it can really be annoying haveing everything glued and having to go back and change stuff. -It might be beneficial to create cave type levels on 3 seperate planes/layers. Make your skeleton one layer thick, and then copy it into the other two. This way you can edit each layer individualy. If you make it 3 layers thick you cannot do this.

2010-03-04 20:27:00 Author: Jrange378 Posts: 573

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Build in pause mode, and then worry about supporting the level with dark matter later. At least just to get the skeleton down. It would be best to build the layers as they would appear in the final version.

2010-03-04 20:35:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I was thinking of creating a huge block in the rear thick layer, and just cutting into it to create all my tunnels that will eventually become detailed. However, I don't know if that will cause me to end up with a shape that is too complex (too many vertices. Yeah, I wouldn't do that. I used a large piece of material in my very first level and it got to the point where I couldn't edit it anymore and was a major pain. I would create in smaller sections that you can easily rearrange if needed.

2010-03-04 20:59:00 Author: mrsupercomputer Posts: 1335

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Also think of trying it using the corner editor. Much more efficient when creating more complex shapes.

2010-03-04 21:13:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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It might be beneficial to create cave type levels on 3 seperate planes/layers. Make your skeleton one layer thick, and then couple it into the other two. This way you can edit each layer individualy. If you make it 3 layers thick you cannot do this. I think he means copy. Sounds like a good way to start. By having three separate layers the level will gain depth and look more detailed. Also, it allowes you to better hide the seams of your level sections.

2010-03-04 23:00:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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I think he means copy. Sounds like a good way to start. By having three separate layers the level will gain depth and look more detailed. Also, it allowes you to better hide the seams of your level sections. Yea, typo, copy it to the other two layers. Had a little trouble explaining that

2010-03-05 02:25:00 Author: Jrange378 Posts: 573

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I sometimes use small grid when sorting out joins from one section to another. For editability build in sections, then join up. You can use the small grid with corner editor to make sure the seams in between are airtight. I would avoid having the whole level as one humungous object, too - this makes popit slower. Keeping it in sections also reduces the complex shapes thermo, especially for a cave environment where there are lots of vertices

2010-03-05 13:04:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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Keeping it in sections also reduces the complex shapes thermo, especially for a cave environment where there are lots of vertices Do we have any real evidence for this? I've done some cursory testing and saw no difference. In addition, the bulk of setbacks is in about 4 pieces because it glued itself together In fairness, I very much doubt anyone outside of MM understands the complex shapes thermo. It's a tough one to do tests on, and if you do, the chances are all your tests will seem to contradict each other

2010-03-05 14:01:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Im still slightly confused as to what you are asking, but i have a couple tips -Avoid using too much glue, it can really be annoying haveing everything glued and having to go back and change stuff. Sorry, but I think this is bad advice. Gluing can be annoying when you have to make changes, but in the end, this is exactly what you should be doing. If you need to make changes, you can unglue, or simply cut sections out. When you're still planning your level out, I agree, build in sections and support them by dark matter. But ultimately, gluing ensures that your level stays together the way you intend. It's very common, regardless of experience, to accidentally nudge sections of your level. Worse, you might not notice this for 20 hours at which point, it becomes a lot of work to fix. Things like a section of level has suddenly sunken six inches... or there is suddenly a gap between parts of your level that wasn't there previously.

2010-03-05 18:03:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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... Things like a section of level has suddenly sunken six inches... or there is suddenly a gap between parts of your level that wasn't there previously. Especially when those gaps are only on ONE of the layers. I've had terrain layers shift on me due to silly things I've done, and it's caused me fits.

2010-03-05 18:37:00 Author: RoharDragontamer Posts: 397

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Do we have any real evidence for this? I've done some cursory testing and saw no difference. Maybe it's because lots of simple shapes and one complex shape take up a similar amount of thermo? After all, lots of shapes increases the objects thermo, so that's probably why tests on complex shapes thermo have proved inconclusive.

2010-03-05 19:14:00 Author: Holguin86 Posts: 875

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All of my levels are glued together, its made no difference. Glue was buggy when the game was first released but it was fixed ages ago. Get to learn the corner editor as soon as possible, its the best tool for building levels. I also will say, watch the vertices when building caves, keep the rock formations simple, look at how MM do them, straight clean lines. I once needed thermo in an older level, and by keeping my rocks simple by deleting loads of vertices, saved two bars of thermo.

2010-03-05 19:48:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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Do we have any real evidence for this? I assumed he was referring to the per-object vertex limitation, which is very easy to max out. Other than that, if the overall complex objects thermo is roughly proportial to the total number of vertices of all objects combined, then it stands to reason that splitting a single object into multiple objects will necessarily use more vertices than leaving it as a single object.

2010-03-05 20:08:00 Author: Aya042 Posts: 2870

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