Archive: 50 posts

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Why do so many people not use backgrounds in their levels, they add so much more depth to the visuals and really bring the place to life in the same way music does! jus wonderin cos i see some levels and jus think they wud look so much better with a background. wud jus like to know ur thinking thats all

2010-02-10 22:37:00 Author: Bombw87 Posts: 126

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Im guessing some people dont even know how to use backgrounds? They might not know where they are lol It wouldnt be hard just to click on one and use it as it will look much better then nothing as you said. So im guessing thats the reason

2010-02-10 22:40:00 Author: Fenderjt Posts: 1969

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Mostly because some backgrounds really, really mess up themes. It's when of the reasons many people are so into the layer glitch, not because of being used as a gimmick, but because it too adds depth. For instance, what-the-heck kind of background would you use for space? Giant cacti or skyscrapers or tree trunks? And some levels might not add backgrounds for a sense of confinement.

2010-02-10 22:42:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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none go with the level? and I all way try and make my own. dont forget you get sounds and lighting of the backgrounds too its a tool to use or not to use

2010-02-10 22:45:00 Author: jump_button Posts: 1014

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To me, backgrounds can definitely ruin themes if they don't match the level. But it's all a matter of opinion I suppose.

2010-02-10 22:49:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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100% Agree with you, I've played so many great levels that are in need of a background. Backgrounds just add so much to a level, I'm always impressed at how they enhance the look of materials.

2010-02-10 22:53:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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ok space is bit tricky, but u can usually light it to get a theme u want cant u?, for me anyway. i also love the way each background has its own sound effects, im working with the pantheon at the mo and it has some really cool eerie wind sound effects. jump button ur not allowed to answer ur the exception lol ur levels look great

2010-02-10 23:06:00 Author: Bombw87 Posts: 126

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Mostly because some backgrounds really, really mess up themes. It's when of the reasons many people are so into the layer glitch, not because of being used as a gimmick, but because it too adds depth. For instance, what-the-heck kind of background would you use for space? Giant cacti or skyscrapers or tree trunks? And some levels might not add backgrounds for a sense of confinement. Yeah - I agree with incinerator. I went back and forth for a couple weeks as to include a background in my Celestia level or not. And I finally decided not to for a couple reasons. None of the backgrounds fit the theme of the level. The backgrounds made my level feel really small - and I wanted the player to feel the islands were huge. The best looking one was the new PotC background, but again, my islands looked way too small and a giant water wheel in the background didn't look right when the player was running across a crumbling bridge. So, it's not that I'm against backgrounds, because I will use them if the need arises. It's just that they don't always work with whatever I'm creating. I would like to see a new feature with backgrounds. It would be nice to be able to use more than one at a time.

2010-02-10 23:13:00 Author: Powershifter Posts: 668

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I thought about making a thread like this...if your thinking about not having a background, (text removed for blah!), the background has that ground detail that can't be achieved with normal materials. The backgrounds also have a good ambient, unlike that constant electronic noise in the blank background. I understand that people use the layer glitch for backgrounds too, but I sometimes find them ugly and undetailed. Some can actually use the layer glitch though, for brilliant backgrounds, such as anpostteller, he blends in the layer glitched background with his silhouette level and details the background nicely with his post-apocalyptic level. But then again, the layer glitch doesn't add that nice ambient. So I call for two things: -Ambient noise pack -Ability to take ambient noise out of a background, and replace it with true silence.

2010-02-10 23:27:00 Author: warlord_evil Posts: 4193

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I agree with Incinerator22. There's many reasons, but I think the first and main one is that none of the backgrounds really fits the theme. It's one of the first thing I think about when I have an new theme idea : does a background fit with it...? MM should really gives us a sky background (with sun, clouds etc..) more neutral, and that can go along with a majority of themes Anyway, globally, I really think that we need more backgrounds! We have a lot of materials, of music tracks, etc.... so why just few backgounds ? (maybe they are more complex to make for MM..?) Like the music pack, a background pack could be cool too

2010-02-11 00:18:00 Author: dajdaj03 Posts: 1486

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yeh i thought of a sky background a while back it would be amazing. plus with global lighting - daytime would make it sunny with clouds, night time would make a starry sky with a moon and would be a great space background people would love

2010-02-11 00:33:00 Author: Bombw87 Posts: 126

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I would like to see a new feature with backgrounds. It would be nice to be able to use more than one at a time. I'd love that. If you're trying to fit in a variation of locales in a single level it'd help so much. I had to rebuild an entire section cos of that stupid bear. There's me trying to get a sense of drama and epicness with an AT-AT invasion and there's a big sleeping bear in the background. great.

2010-02-11 00:37:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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Iif your thinking about not having a background, then at least put one in, and hide it with fog What the hell are you talking about. "Just throw one in for the hell of it". This still assumes that there is a background suitable for all parts of your level. There was no way I could include one of the default backgrounds for subterranean setbacks because: The ambient sounds are all very specific, how can I use the same sounds throughout 4 distinctly different environments. They alter the global lighting settings to an extent that you can't achieve the same effects, especially when trying to fit it to 4 distinct environments Ditto the actual backgrounds themselves. They are only ever going to fit one theme, so 3 other environments will need to hide it behind a wall, or have stupendously thick fog (which will probably mess up the effect you need for that section, not to mention reduced visibility can impede gameplay. Plus you will still have the altered lighting and ambient sounds which are liable to detract from the immersion, rather han add to it. In fact I can't be bothered to go on. If you are considering throwing anything into your level just for the hell of it, then go get your head checked out. Top tip of the day. I do agree with control over ambient sounds etc, but TBH, that's not gonna be coming any time soon when we arent' even allowed a volume control on our sounds.

2010-02-11 00:43:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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It's true what they said about the space themed background. It's difficult to make it work. For my INSECTOIDS! level I had to use no background since all the other themes ruined the black backdrop. Instead I just supplemented my own with some stickers, but I really wish there was a space themed background. Just imagine, shooting stars with eerily glowing planets, and even some cool sound fx.

2010-02-11 00:46:00 Author: M_R_Enigma Posts: 161

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There was no way I could include one of the default backgrounds for subterranean setbacks because: [list] The ambient sounds are all very specific, how can I use the same sounds throughout 4 distinctly different environments. They alter the global lighting settings to an extent that you can't achieve the same effects, especially when trying to fit it to 4 distinct environments . I'm sorry. I forgot to mention ( I really did) Not every level should have a background, such as space levels or futuristic levels, etc. I made a mistake and you are right. Oh, and we really do need more backgrounds.

2010-02-11 00:52:00 Author: warlord_evil Posts: 4193

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I'd love that. If you're trying to fit in a variation of locales in a single level it'd help so much. I had to rebuild an entire section cos of that stupid bear. There's me trying to get a sense of drama and epicness with an AT-AT invasion and there's a big sleeping bear in the background. great. LOL!! That's what I'm talking about... backgrounds don't always work And I agree with RTM - there's no point in adding a backgound and making it foggy so you can't see it (unless of course if it's just for one section of the level). The fog also effects the visibility in the playing area, not just the background. Overall I agree that backgrounds are great, but only when necessary. Also, about the background sounds, we should be able to turn those on/off. I couldn't imagine Subterranean Setbacks with a plane flying over the caves once in a while lol

2010-02-11 01:00:00 Author: Powershifter Posts: 668

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I haven't even made a level with a background yet. There's no background that would suit any of my levels, simple as that. And no, I'm not gonna turn up the fog and throw one in for the hell of it. That's the dumbest idea ever.

2010-02-11 08:28:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Yeah the present backgrounds are pretty much useless for most levels. They're only any good if you make the level to suit the background which most of us don't. 1) If you have a level that goes up that makes the background defunct once you get to a certain height anyway because the background is then blank. 2) The objects in them are way too big so you have to make things in your level way oversize to keep a sense of scale. 3) They're static and not editable. It would be much better if you could resize and move them to fit a particular area. Also it would be better if you could put several different backgrounds in the same level. 4) Most of them have weird objects in at some point that you just don't want. As with the bear mentioned previously. So until we're able to at least manipulate the backgrounds as we want then they aren't much use at all for the majority of levels. Just putting a background in for no other reason than to have something there is just ridiculous. I'd rather see a blank background than one that doesn't make any sense at all.

2010-02-11 10:43:00 Author: mistervista Posts: 2210

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hmmm i see ur point but im still not convinced. my levels would look crap if i took the backgrounds away. and theyre meant to be big tho its littlebigplanet lol would look strange if the trees in the background were made smaller then sackboy would look about 6ft tall and that would be weird! x

2010-02-11 11:05:00 Author: Bombw87 Posts: 126

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Excellent points there mrV, I'd forgotten about the scaling issues. then sackboy would look about 6ft tall and that would be weird! x Or he would look like a character living in a world that is in proportion to himself. Which is the opposite of weird The majority of good community levels I've played that aren't abstract have sackboy in proportion to his surroundings. That's not to say you need that to add quality to your level, but a lot of people create their environments to sackboy's scale. In fact even the MM ones do: Buildings, vehicles etc. are built to sackboy's size, rather than the NPC's size, which is odd because the NPCs actually live there and own the buildings / vehicles , the backgrounds in the MM levels are out of proportion with both the foreground scenery, the NPCs and the player. Now that my friend, is weird

2010-02-11 11:17:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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but sackboy is only a few inches tall anyway! wot possible background would be in proportion to his height? a tiny forest of 2foot trees? the only background that would work is as we mentioned a sky background where there are no other points of reference. and obviously were going to build objects in levels that are in proportion! who wouldnt? i build my own trees and buildings that are a good size to sackboy with a background, it would be silly to build trees as big as the ones in the background. all im sayin is that a background just makes the whole level look alive, i know, ok u didnt hav a background which suited ur level u already answerd the question. i jus prefer to use backgrounds and they work great for me!x

2010-02-11 11:55:00 Author: Bombw87 Posts: 126

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Yes, there is a strange contradiction in LBP that's been nagging me. On the one hand everything looks like sackpeople are indeed 8cm high and it's all built with real materials in the real world by craft club fanatics, as you can tell from the scale, certain objects and the visible connectors. On the other hand, this is supposed to be some place made by our imagination, where any of those limitations would seem silly. It seems to me that the whole imagisphere concept was tagged on later. Probably a good thing, though. Most people take a lot of effort to make levels look realistic (how many levels have all connectors and such set to visible, like Mm?). I wouldn't be surprised if there were some negative consumer response tests that led to reworking the craft club concept. To get back on topic, I agree backgrounds aren't for all levels (as shown by the examples in this thread), but let's not get overly negative about them. IMHO there's a pretty good spread of backgrounds right now, using the lighting settings I can usually find something that fits my ideas. They just require a little planning, to avoid unfortunate bear sightings.

2010-02-11 13:41:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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To add to the "not every level needs a background" argument. If you are making a level with significant use of water, many of the backgrounds look out of place when submerged.

2010-02-11 14:08:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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all im sayin is that a background just makes the whole level look alive Yes true, I agree with that Using a background will make the visuals more deep, more detailled and globally more complete! If you make a garden level, using the garden background with the trees will look better than using the empty blue background But like said in this thread, it will also depend on the theme of the level, the style (realistic, abstract...), the scale etc..., so that's why some people choose to not use one. So, we're talking about 2 different things here

2010-02-11 14:44:00 Author: dajdaj03 Posts: 1486

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To add to the "not every level needs a background" argument. If you are making a level with significant use of water, many of the backgrounds look out of place when submerged. In some cases you can hide it, though. You don't have to build your level on the floor, and this applies to levels without water, too. For example, if you want some trees and a mountain in your background, but don't care for huts, you can take the Savannah background but build your level high up. Also, the background can provide some inspiration, too. When I decide to use a background, I fly across to see what particular background objects I have, and see how I can use them in my level concept. For instance, there are some water containers on the roofs of the Metropolis theme, so I decided to put an industrial area there.

2010-02-11 15:01:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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But like said in this thread, it will also depend on the theme of the level, the style (realistic, abstract...), the scale etc..., so that's why some people choose to not use one. Exactly. It's simply an artistic choice and I find that I have to make these choices a lot in LBP. While we have a lot of freedom to create whatever we want, we are also limited by the tools available to us. So, ultimately we have to compromise in certain areas like backgrounds.

2010-02-11 15:41:00 Author: mrsupercomputer Posts: 1335

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My point is that MM released very few backgrounds. They should really make a background pack. Then...people has to do what they think is better for their stuff. I prefer levels with backgrounds, since many authors are not able to make the background alive and everything is so void and dead. But my most hated issue about the blank background is when creators build without thinking to avoid the borders of the level that are eyesoring to say the least.

2010-02-11 16:34:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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Exactly. It's simply an artistic choice and I find that I have to make these choices a lot in LBP. While we have a lot of freedom to create whatever we want, we are also limited by the tools available to us. So, ultimately we have to compromise in certain areas like backgrounds. Yup.. not every level can have a background. We have to make a choice just like the theme, style, color pallet, music and sounds you choose. In fact in some cases (for example my 1st in my series Space Escape) except for the lighting changes and ambient sounds, you would never see the thing. On the other hand, there are many levels that could stand some sort of background, if nothing more than some 3d glitch background stuff here and there. It is just a matter of the level and style the creator is attempting to achieve. I also agree with OmegaSlayer as it would be nice to have a few more backgrounds. Quite a few nice ones were suggested in another thread quite awhile ago.

2010-02-11 16:42:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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To add to the "not every level needs a background" argument. If you are making a level with significant use of water, many of the backgrounds look out of place when submerged. Exactly, then the bear starts drowing in it's sleep, and that's no good Seriously though, not even the PotC background looks good submerged, the trees all end up underwater!

2010-02-11 16:56:00 Author: kirbyman62 Posts: 1893

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There are two reasons, one is the person doesn't even know how to use a background, second is that none of the backrounds fit the theme of the level.

2010-02-11 16:59:00 Author: PoD CREW Posts: 268

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I also agree with OmegaSlayer as it would be nice to have a few more backgrounds. Quite a few nice ones were suggested in another thread quite awhile ago. I think I opened the thread some ages ago, when I was still believing that someone would have heard what we were asking for...then Mama told me that Donkeys don't fly and my world fell along with the donkeys.

2010-02-11 17:15:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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To reiterate a point already made, scifi levels really have no good backgrounds to choose from. This is something I was hoping the often rumored R&C pack would address.

2010-02-11 17:34:00 Author: dcf Posts: 468

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If there was a R&C pack, it's pretty obvious they would use Metropolis as a background.

2010-02-11 19:07:00 Author: Pantyer2 Posts: 652

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i LOOOVE levels with a light blue background. last year i made my paradise island level like that, but on all my others i use a background to help bring out the materials.

2010-02-11 19:22:00 Author: Unreal_Styrofoam Posts: 99

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I don't like backgrounds to be honest. Especially in a level i would like to make when you start in a plane. Imagine being in a plane and flying past a tree... erm pretty big tree.

2010-02-11 19:32:00 Author: Doopz Posts: 5592

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Want list: A dozen more backgrounds in a DLC pack.

2010-02-11 22:15:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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Want list: A dozen more backgrounds in a DLC pack. BRUTAL! We will make LBP metal, everything metal, we will make it blacker than the blackest black. Time. Infinity.

2010-02-11 22:26:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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I don't want backgrounds so much as I want a decent extra layer tool, nothing too complex though. Remember MM 's sacky nomination of "Swinging Silhouette by anpostellar (for use of the layer glitch)" [or something like that]? Ha! It makes me think MM actually likes that layer glitch.

2010-02-11 22:34:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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They probably do like it, they haven't got rid of it have they?

2010-02-11 22:37:00 Author: Doopz Posts: 5592

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BRUTAL! We will make LBP metal, everything metal, we will make it blacker than the blackest black. Time. Infinity. hahaha. If there is one thing this game needs, it's a metalocalypse DLC pack. Not entirely sure how that would work, of if the margins would be good enough for sony, but it should certainly happen

2010-02-11 23:54:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Ha! It makes me think MM actually likes that layer glitch. It's a left over part of code, at one point there was no 3 planes, sackboy could move in and out of those layers freely. Its was scrapped for playability and ease of use. But back on topic, I use the background mainly for lighting, each backdrop gives a different lighting st lye, and its predominately that I use to choose between them. Also, using Bak's layer glitch has an effect to,sometimes you can only go so far back without the background overwriting the glitch.

2010-02-12 00:09:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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The main problem is that most of the themes don't fit the background. Mm should make a background pack...

2010-02-12 01:18:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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I would like if the Killzone 2 pack came with a background...I should go make one...

2010-02-12 04:09:00 Author: warlord_evil Posts: 4193

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I don't want backgrounds so much as I want a decent extra layer tool, nothing too complex though. Remember MM 's sacky nomination of "Swinging Silhouette by anpostellar (for use of the layer glitch)" [or something like that]? Ha! It makes me think MM actually likes that layer glitch. This is a good issue. They like it and they don't patch it. Now, a glitch is a bug in the code, so something that potentially is dangerous for the stability of the game. Either MM erase the bugs (worse scenario) or they should allow everyone to use it with a proper tool. What's the point in patching the glitched laser if you could still take thegide's one? In this way they allow only "smart" users to exploit glitched stuff, leaving out something like 80% of users. Not fair...

2010-02-12 06:36:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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This is a good issue. They like it and they don't patch it. Now, a glitch is a bug in the code, so something that potentially is dangerous for the stability of the game. Either MM erase the bugs (worse scenario) or they should allow everyone to use it with a proper tool. What's the point in patching the glitched laser if you could still take thegide's one? In this way they allow only "smart" users to exploit glitched stuff, leaving out something like 80% of users. Not fair... Generally, I think we're better off it's only the more dedicated creators who will have the patience (and then some!) to use it. In the wrong hands it can make the layer transitioning even more confusing to a lot of players than it is already, so I reckon MM are happy to keep it a niche exploit.

2010-02-12 10:45:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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thats true. i dont use glitches out of principle, but some people do make amazing levels with the layer glitch! i.e jump button and ladylyn some however jus use "3D" levels as a way to get more plays tho, thats a bit annoying.

2010-02-12 12:27:00 Author: Bombw87 Posts: 126

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I dont actually like the games bg?s either. It's mostly because of the size, they all are so big compared to the sackperson. That?s why I like to make my own bg?s, with the layer glitch like I did on my first level. and btw. the use of layer glitch may increase the amount of players who play your level, but only if it's mentioned. But isn?t that what almost everybody does in lbp? Every so called "cool" things has to be mentioned usually with caps, kinda pathetic imo

2010-02-12 13:43:00 Author: Unknown User

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When the 3D glitch came out i experimented with it and have made about 4 levels using it formy backgrounds. Its good to creat your own backgrounds as you can add your own detail and objects without using the ones offered which you cant adjust. Its easier to use the MM background and they are good but im addicted to making my own

2010-02-12 14:24:00 Author: Fenderjt Posts: 1969

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Also, the lighting is a lot better when you add a background… it gives shadows and highlights and all that, gives the level a lot more depth. So… even if you don’t like the scenery in the background, you should still consider adding one for the lighting effects.

2010-02-12 14:49:00 Author: oLMCo Posts: 96

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Found this debate very interesting. Can a level retain interest withoutthe eye candy of a background. I've always been a fan of backgrounds particularily when combined with extra layer,effects and level architecture. I created this level as an experiment and to my surprise it works best without one. https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=22762-Revenge-of-the-Bubble It will probably be hit with loads of empty tags though. Hopefully MM will release some useful backgrounds this year, would love a giant bathroom/kitchen type background.

2010-02-16 19:26:00 Author: EnochRoot Posts: 533

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