Archive: 24 posts

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So, I'll assume you're all familiar with the side-scrolling platform format, where the screen moves at a fixed pace and you have to keep up or die, yeah? Good. Now what if the horizontal scroll speed wasn't exactly fixed, but varied slightly depending on well you are doing. So if you are ploughing ahead it speeds up a little bit and if you are falling behind it slows just a tad to help you catch up. In multiplayer, would it be better to base this upon the furthest forward player, or the furthest back player? Also, what if the vertical camera position was not actually fixed, but followed the player up and down as they gad around. What then? Should it follow the topmost player or the bottommost player (in actual fact, as long as they stay reeasonably close together it will balance between them, I just want an idea of what should happen if they get quite far apart. Discuss. And answer the poll also. Is multiple choice so you can select one from horizontal and one from vertical please

2010-02-10 19:51:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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For the sideways I'd say the furthest sack to the front, encouraging cooperation. As for up and down, probably the same, furthest to the top for the same reason. After all it is a community game right?

2010-02-10 19:54:00 Author: Jedi_1993 Posts: 1518

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Horizontal -> Lead player Vertical -> I clicked both top and bottom cause it depends on whether you go up or down. Leading player in any case

2010-02-10 19:56:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Sounds interesting! I am sure CCubbage has quite a few thoughts on this one after his submarine level. I voted average, but then reread and now realize what you were asking. Ooops. Since for the most part you would average until they got quite far apart, I would say the lead player. However, in cases where you have one overzealous and slightly mischievous player (Joey), that might not be so good.

2010-02-10 19:58:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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@syroc: both. In theory though, I'm thinking downwards would be a faster movement. In terms of a competitive element, this will be a score / survival challenge (including the 1 life each that is implied by this), so I was slightly leaning towards favouring the back player, as it keeps people alive for longer, and sould allow for some co-op bubble grabbing action. THe polls are interesting thus far. As a side note - averaging the horizontal movement is more work, but it is doable It's certainly not a challenge compared to everything else I have planned lol.

2010-02-10 20:17:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I first wanted to vote back player, but it might be abused in some way, so I voted average (for both). But if it's a survival challenge, maybe back player is better. Which level is this anyway? The one you put on hold, the one you made while the other was on hold and was put on hold, or the one you made while the the one you made while the other was on hold was on hold?

2010-02-10 22:18:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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It would really depend on the the level and the layout. When you say competitive, do you mean you're competing for points but not necessarily hoping the other player dies, or would you want to get the other guy killed? If it's the latter, then favoring the front player could make for some interesting races as the players tried to kill each other with the camera. As for up/down, I'd probably favor the top player in most cases, especially if there are pits that you can fall into (it would be obnoxious if one guy screwed up and fell into a pit, and the other guy missed a jump or something because the camera was following the dying player. Another approach might be to set both up and down to require all. Instead of favoring whoever is up or down, it'll only move up if both players go up and it'll only move down if they both go down, so you don't have a high-climbing player kill the straggler who can't keep up and you don't have the guy falling into a pit killing the guy who handled the jump better. If player one is higher, and player two moves up, the camera will track up, but when player two moves back down, the camera won't follow him unless player one comes down too.

2010-02-10 22:55:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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It would really depend on the the level and the layout. When you say competitive, do you mean you're competing for points but not necessarily hoping the other player dies, or would you want to get the other guy killed? If it's the latter, then favoring the front player could make for some interesting races as the players tried to kill each other with the camera. See, I don't really know. As a survival type thing, the idea is to get as many points as possible, but some people do like killing their friends, so IDK... Another approach might be to set both up and down to require all. Instead of favoring whoever is up or down, it'll only move up if both players go up and it'll only move down if they both go down, I could actually kiss you for this. Seriously! Which level is this anyway? The one you put on hold, the one you made while the other was on hold and was put on hold, or the one you made while the the one you made while the other was on hold was on hold? It's that one, but it's actually the one I thought up whilst I was working on something else that had been started because I put my first project on hold , but then I finished off the something else, picked up the first project then dropped that again, picked up this one while the first one is on hold, but I also have a side project, which is in fact the something else that I finished, but I want to revamp, but that's definitely not my main priority... This is. Hopefully that will make everything clear now, yes? now where's jack with my schedule

2010-02-11 00:47:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I could actually kiss you for this. Seriously! Um.... I think I'll pass... but ... uh... thanks. Just kidding. Glad I could help. I've never actually built a tracker that way, so there may be unforeseen problems, but it seems good in theory and I really can't imagine why it wouldn't work.

2010-02-11 03:46:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I would prefer the camera to keep up with the lead player. I wouldn't want someone constantly lagging behind to keep slowing me down, I'd want them to DIE!! Yeah...

2010-02-11 09:26:00 Author: TripleTremelo Posts: 490

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If it's a race, then lead player. If not, and it's more cooperation, then follow the trailing player. Just my opinion, not really based off anything though...

2010-02-11 11:43:00 Author: piggabling Posts: 2979

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No one's feeling any tactical co-op love then I've never actually built a tracker that way, so there may be unforeseen problems, but it seems good in theory and I really can't imagine why it wouldn't work. Me neither, but as you say, the theory seems sound. What I'm actually using is a 4 speed tracker (9 speed if you include 4 negative speeds and stop), to ensure smooth camera movement. The inner proxs, controlling the slow speeds could be require 1, to get an average of the positions when players are close together vertically, then just have the extremities require all, so once the players get far apart the camera stays fixed and it is down to the players to keep in screen. I'll have to test it out on my prototype rig, but hopefully all will be good

2010-02-11 11:51:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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The only problem I see is when one player is at the top of the top and the other is at the bottom of the bottom. Will it zoom out far enough given the scale of the rooms?

2010-02-11 12:06:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Nope. This is why I need to scroll vertically anyway, because lack of forethought and planning have led to a situation where the level is too tall Using sehven's idea the camera will stop following at some point then whoever touches the gas top or bottom first dies. In honesty, it's gonna be quite hard keeping two players alive I think, but I'd rather accommodate multiplayer when it is in fact possible

2010-02-11 12:14:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I think it depends on which direction they players are suppose to go in. But always the leading one is the one that they should track.. Whether its left, right, up or down. Though this depends on the application your are putting it in.

2010-02-11 14:18:00 Author: Tamland Posts: 106

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What I'm actually using is a 4 speed tracker (9 speed if you include 4 negative speeds and stop), to ensure smooth camera movement. So you're rigging it to so each direction has two speeds? Are the variable speeds acheived by winches overpowering the pistons or are you using some other method of moving the tracker? Is the checkpoint attached to the tracker or does it re-emit when the player respawns? Or, I guess you said survival level, so maybe it's neither.

2010-02-11 17:40:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Sounds interesting. I think you're headed in the right direction. Vertical scrolling isn't good for co-op. Horizontal, on the other hand, gives you the ability line up players. Good thinking. As far as camera position is concerned, I'd go with what the other guy said about not activating unless both characters advance.

2010-02-11 17:57:00 Author: M_R_Enigma Posts: 161

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So you're rigging it to so each direction has two speeds? Are the variable speeds acheived by winches overpowering the pistons or are you using some other method of moving the tracker? Is the checkpoint attached to the tracker or does it re-emit when the player respawns? Or, I guess you said survival level, so maybe it's neither. Have you seen the sacktracker from the Logic Pack? Just add more pistons with different speeds. Sure, you have to faff with the timings, but it all works the same. You just stack the sensor switches in a row, so the outer ones control the fastest pistons. It's also nice for normal, but smoother, tracking.

2010-02-11 18:13:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I think it solely depends on the type of level. I think middle would work good for particle effects, i.e. snow/rain and back for chase scenes and maybe front for races? For vertical I would say middle or top but again, depends on the level type.

2010-02-11 21:24:00 Author: tanrockstan34 Posts: 1076

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So you're rigging it to so each direction has two speeds? Are the variable speeds acheived by winches overpowering the pistons or are you using some other method of moving the tracker? As comphy says, it's an extension of the three-piston tracker that I made for the logicpack, simply extended out to 9 pistons (working in 4 naturally antagonistic pairs, with a central "brake" to allow it to stop). I've found 9 speeds is plenty to give a pretty smooth tracking motion, the only issue is that you get a lag that is proportional to your speed - but it's minor and not an issue for camera tracking.

2010-02-11 21:30:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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...the three-piston tracker that I made for the logicpack I'll have to take a look at the pack. I mostly make my own stuff and I thought I had a pretty good handle on trackers (I had to build a 4 way tracker that was smart enough to stay back a certain distance from sackboy, avoid hitting the ground, walls, and my mech, and it will pull out of the way if the mech tries to squish against a wall), but that sounds interesting.

2010-02-11 21:46:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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A side scroller, like mario?

2010-02-11 22:41:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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Has mario ever beena forced side scroller? It's been so long since I played a mario game lol. Anyhooo. As it turns out, there were some oversights in the multiplayer vertical tracker in multiplayer that led to some horrendous jitter effects if the players happened to be just the wrong distance apart I've pretty much got around this now, and might be able to fix it up even more. So this is good. Still haven't decided what to do about the horizontal, but that's something I can worry about later, especially seeing as the repsonses seem pretty much even on both issues! Plus we have to find out if my whole level concept is too epic for the LBP engine to handle (a possibility that miseryguts comphermc seems intent of reminding me of every single day) before the camera views even become a slight issue! Ta to everyone for your input.

2010-02-15 21:17:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Has mario ever beena forced side scroller? It's been so long since I played a mario game lol. Anyhooo. As it turns out, there were some oversights in the multiplayer vertical tracker in multiplayer that led to some horrendous jitter effects if the players happened to be just the wrong distance apart I've pretty much got around this now, and might be able to fix it up even more. So this is good. Still haven't decided what to do about the horizontal, but that's something I can worry about later, especially seeing as the repsonses seem pretty much even on both issues! Plus we have to find out if my whole level concept is too epic for the LBP engine to handle (a possibility that miseryguts comphermc seems intent of reminding me of every single day) before the camera views even become a slight issue! Ta to everyone for your input. Acually I own an NES and Super Mario Bros. and in that there are levels that are forced, i hate those.

2010-02-15 21:27:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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