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#1

20% of the highest rated are not playable

Archive: 54 posts

Why is there 6 levels locked on page1 of the highest rated? Theres like 1.3 million levels out and 20% of the levels on page1 of the highest rated are locked. I say either unlock them or get rid of them and let other open levels have there shot.2010-02-08 09:54:00

Author:
CENTURION24
Posts: 266

Because some idiots lock levels when they get on highest rated so that nobody can ever rate it low and it stays on there forever. Which is kind of pointless, because when it's locked nobody can even see what the level is or who made it, so they won't get any recognition anyway.

Or it could just be that it's a genuinely good locked level and the key for it is in another level.		2010-02-08 10:49:00

Author:
Nuclearfish
Posts: 927

You're in a bad mood lately mate.
You must cope with the fact that this game, like every other game that is open to a community, becomes more flawed the more the community gets huge.
MM made a big mistake with the level ratings.
A level should not be heartable or rated if not completed by the player, they should only enable players to warn the level if it's badly flawed and not completableand, and finally the stats should have been implemented from day one, so people can clearly see how many people played, finished and hearted a level.

I'm just as p**sed as you, but I have given up.
And here you'll find a godzillion of people who will write good reasons to say you're right and another godzillion people to prove you wrong.		2010-02-08 10:52:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

three of them are bonus levels by amazingflying poo, which you only get by completing his levels. It's not his fault that people rated them highly.

Also, I'm not sure why you made two of these, so I locked the other one.		2010-02-08 11:25:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Actually, I agree 100% with this. Having locked levels at the top of highest rated is pointless. At the end of the day, highest rated is a standard search results page.I use the "new posts" feature here all the time, think how useless that would be if half the reuslts simply said "nah, you can't view this thread" - which would be possible considering the private forums here, that most people don't have access to.

Levels should ONLY by eligible on the highest rated / cool pages if they are unlocked. It's worthless having locked levels turn up in search results and I cannot think of a single logical reason why they should be there. It serves no-one (well OK, it serves one person's ego) and would be a simple fix to implement by MM in the form of a search filter. Regardless of the reasons motivations for keeping them locked or the nature of the levels or who is making them or how good they are.... If they are locked, I don't want them in my search results.		2010-02-08 12:38:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Because some idiots lock levels when they get on highest rated so that nobody can ever rate it low and it stays on there forever. Which is kind of pointless, because when it's locked nobody can even see what the level is or who made it, so they won't get any recognition anyway.


Yeah, I hear you, but c'est la vie. Like OmegaSlayer, I've stopped caring really. Whatever the reasons, either valid or not, let the perpetrators fool themselves in what ever ways they must.

And haven't you heard, 4 stars is the new 5 stars! 		2010-02-08 12:56:00

Author:
MrsSpookyBuz
Posts: 1492

I don't think this is the creators fault - MM could EASILY filter the highest rated to not include the locked levels. The programmers could probably do it over lunch. In fact, locked levels shouldn't appear in cool levels, highest rated, or any of the public areas used for finding levels. But, there are definately legitimate reasons for creators having locked levels.

My "Lunar Lander" was on the top of highest rated because I didn't want kids rating it down to 2 stars while the tutorial was on cool levels. Once the cool levels run was over I unlocked it.... and it dropped out of highest rated entirely by the next morning (which was expected).


because when it's locked nobody can even see what the level is or who made it, so they won't get any recognition anyway.
Actually, it's an interesting trick - they DO plan on releasing it eventually, but they release other levels that link to the level. People who play the level after receiving a key are much more likely to high-rate the level, so they are able to retain a 5 star rating long enough to gain several thousand plays... by the time they unlock it, it would require MANY low ratings to lower it on highest rated.

Unfortunately, I think we sort of "showed the way" with the Logic Pack... although, not really intentionally.

But, as with MrsSpookyBuz..... I don't care. The truth is, we used to be impressed by lots of plays a year ago... most of us aren't anymore. We used to be impressed with 4 to 5 star levels.... we aren't anymore. We're only interested in quality levels. I like to think that as a whole we've matured and judge a level for what it is, not for how many plays it has or the rating.		2010-02-08 13:20:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Yeah, CC is right.
I searched on the Cool pages surely less than 10 times, and I play levels from no more than 20 trusted friends/creators, since the game has become a mess imho for a countless series of reason, so I prefer to focus on really few stuff and creators that excite me every time.		2010-02-08 14:45:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

If they're going to keep locked levels there than we should be able to see who the creator of the level is, so we can play some of their levels to try and find the key.2010-02-08 15:41:00

Author:
kirbyman62
Posts: 1893

I'm passed caring really too. I feel that the highest rated page did used to be an achievement. Sure, there was the odd level on there that didn't deserve to be, but if you got there it was because you did have something that everyone liked and that was generally well thought of. Now it is totally different, most of the levels on there have been reached by using some 'technique' to beat the system.

I think it's getting a little ridiculous with some of the things that people are willing to do just to remain 5 stars. Getting 5 stars did used be a goal of mine. I think this was because I thought I'd found the winning formula, out of 4 levels in a row that I created, 3 of them were rated 5 stars, the odd one out being Calamity Construction, and that's far more puzzle based so I could understand the kiddies not liking it as much. I think a part of me from this thought 'well, 5 stars isn't just all about luck, I'm obviously on to something here'. Which in hindsight was wrong.

I think how the pages are now, most creators could make the kind of level that could reach the highest rated. Say something like Lil Platformer for instance, it's easy, simple, kiddies will love it. Now, just because you created a level like that doesn't mean that you are necessarily guaranteed to get on the highest rated. After all, there's loads of other factors that come in that could ruin those chances.

Basically, having the 'right' level is only ticking one box, and to get to the highest rated (genuinely) there's lots of other boxes that need to be ticked, the biggest one being luck.

The highest rated page is now full of people who have just beat the system to get there. I think is real shame that it has come to this and that it really defeats the point of it. I do not see any satisfaction in manufacturing your way up to the top of something. Surely the reward comes from knowing that the community as a whole (no matter how bad it is) believes your level is worthy of being on that page?

Personally, it has reached a stage of corruption where I just do not care anymore. I once had 3 levels on the page 1 of the highest page bunch together, and I honestly feel that was an achievement. Could the people on the there now honestly say that what they have done is an accomplishment?		2010-02-08 15:53:00

Author:
jackofcourse
Posts: 1494

Wow, locked levels on the Highest Rated?... Now that's just lame.2010-02-08 17:05:00

Author:
BlahYourHamster
Posts: 177

I don't think Jww has 'beaten the system' to get there. He was just there a loooong time ago.

Also, to be fair, the actual logic pack levels were unlocked from day one, they were just beyond their cool pages expiration date. The only one published as new was the intro, used to bring people into the levels themselves. Any locked levels that are on there from the logic pack aren't even levels - they are tutorials. We locked them so people wouldn't 1 star them... ratings were never a consideration beyond that.		2010-02-08 18:02:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

I gave up caring about such things like these highest rated pages, hearts and ratings a long time ago.

I honestly couldnt give a hoot how many stars I have, its completely useless, for the majority of players will rate it low because they can't finish it, or because they can.

Plays however, I do pay attention to, I like people to see even a little part of my level, no matter how small. 		2010-02-08 18:20:00

Author:
GruntosUK
Posts: 1754

I don't think Jww has 'beaten the system' to get there. He was just there a loooong time ago.


Yeah... I got horribly lucky. Almost a bit embarrassed by it's success really.

I published it and it zoomed to the top. Kinda freaky actually. I never deleted, started over, locked or really thought of doing anything like that. I think I did use the republishing trick up until I hit page 3 during the 7 day run, but that was about all I did. I joined this site like a month later and on my level thread I made I got some great advice, decorated it quite a bit more and created my own custom character, made my own mesa's and updated with more decorations. Other than updating once more by adding a Now Playing Space Escape sticker around August of last year that has been it.

What is kinda funny in comparison is one of my best levels ever that I am most happy and proud of and was just honored in the recent spotlight, didn't get that many plays nor hearts in my 7 days. I guess just too difficult, but by no means one of the hardest levels out there. Though to be honest I did tailor the badge more towards and adult tastes. Especially since it's predecessor in the series got hit with the rating bug that happened right at the time I published.

Baja's success just shows me how many small kids really play this game and if you make a really good version of something for a general audience, it could do really well. No not the cheapie spam happy bomb levels... I try and use my secret powers for good. Not to worry as I am not really considering making a whole bunch of bomb survival shark ramp racing levels or anything. I did Baja for fun as well as I was curious if something done better than the default Mario Kart levels that were prevalent a year ago with a bit of car control, some fun scenery and something wacky at the end, how well it might really do. EEEEK!!! :eek: LOL!!

Baja is one of those fast food sort of levels Pom's spoke about in another thread. Kids seem to love it. Can't tell you how many messages I have gotten from parents that this is one of their favorites to play with their kids. I have also been surprised by some pretty cool creators inviting me in to play it with them out of the blue and telling me how much they love that level.		2010-02-08 18:28:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Lil' Platformer got page 1. Because everyone thought "Hey this new guy deserves 5 stars and a heart!" I did. I thought his work deserved more plays.

We all know now this players has made TONS of levels. And he made a new account and didn"t republish and acted like a noob on purpose.
The same thing with Jack of course of his first levels. People were like "WOW" "OMG" and rated 5 and hearted. Now people say. "O no! Not again! Jack 1 star!!!!" And destroy his level rating.
Everyone acts like this doesn't happen to known creators. It does. And you all know it it.
There is no way to cheat in "lbp".

The only cheat i know is the "I'm gonna 1 star this level cause "I" don't think it deserves it!"

Example: When i released Dead Sacks Cave @ 30 plays... it was a 3 star. And had Annoying,Rubbish,Daft,Lousy,Empty and every bad tag u can think of... This game is terrible! of course I deleted it, and tried again. Whoever was doing this thought it was funny. It isn't.

Now sorry for being off the main subject. Because yes. The levels you are talking about do need unlocked. Keeping locked for months is just silly and not fair.		2010-02-08 18:30:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

I don't think Jww has 'beaten the system' to get there. He was just there a loooong time ago.

Also, to be fair, the actual logic pack levels were unlocked from day one, they were just beyond their cool pages expiration date. The only one published as new was the intro, used to bring people into the levels themselves. Any locked levels that are on there from the logic pack aren't even levels - they are tutorials. We locked them so people wouldn't 1 star them... ratings were never a consideration beyond that.

Oh yeah, there's obviously exceptions to what I just said on the highest rated page. Jww's and the Logic Pack being a couple of them. I wasn't saying that all the levels on there have now 'cheated' to get there...just the majority of them.		2010-02-08 19:03:00

Author:
jackofcourse
Posts: 1494

I stopped caring about this or anything else involving cool levels ages ago. My last level has gotten like... 80 plays I think? But it has a high star rating and most of my friends have played it, so i'm fine with that.

I'm not going to waste my time fighting people who cheat to get on highest rated and cool levels. And I'm certainly not going to waste my time fighting bomb sharks. Not worth my time or effort. If MM/Sony fixes the system, possibly I"ll care again... but I think I made my stance on the cool levels system pretty clear in 7 days. I'd tag it with Rubbish if I could.

Edit: Btw, I do realize that some levels deserve to be on highest rated. I am not talking about those.		2010-02-08 19:05:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

Well, I'm happy to see that more people stop caring about such trivial things. 2010-02-08 19:08:00

Author:
Syroc
Posts: 3193

I think there needs to be more than one type of 'locked' level.

For instance, some levels are locked because they require you to beat a previous level (whether they are tutorials or not). I think that kind of level is fine on the cool pages as long as there is some way of selecting it so you can be directed to the previous level. However, currently this is not the case, so they shouldn't be on the cool pages because like many of you have basically said, what's the point if you can't select them?

Another type of locked level is exactly what I did for Celestia.. it was a locked back-up copy (Thank goodness I did this because if not I would have lost it when my PS3 died a few months ago). Granted we can now back-up our levels on a flash drive, but that's fairly recent, and besides, you can never have too many back-ups! Which brings me to my first point: this type of locked level should be called something other than locked, and should not be considered for cool pages (or any other page). Maybe Mm could call them "unfinished" levels? So we would have three options: Locked/unlocked; Copy/Not Copyable; Unfinished (No, Yes).

Slightly off topic - I also agree that people should not be able to rate or heart a level if they couldn't or didn't complete it. I've noticed too often where people will play a level for about a minute, leave, rate it 3 stars and leave a comment that says something like, "Great level, please try my level." They didn't even play the whole level! I think trophies might be a big part of the blame. People will do almost anything to get a trophy, even if it means 'cheating the system.'

Also, personally, I like to think 3 stars is the new 5 stars 		2010-02-08 20:15:00

Author:
Powershifter
Posts: 668

I'm passed caring really too. I feel that the highest rated page did used to be an achievement. Sure, there was the odd level on there that didn't deserve to be, but if you got there it was because you did have something that everyone liked and that was generally well thought of. Now it is totally different, most of the levels on there have been reached by using some 'technique' to beat the system.

I think it's getting a little ridiculous with some of the things that people are willing to do just to remain 5 stars. Getting 5 stars did used be a goal of mine. I think this was because I thought I'd found the winning formula, out of 4 levels in a row that I created, 3 of them were rated 5 stars, the odd one out being Calamity Construction, and that's far more puzzle based so I could understand the kiddies not liking it as much. I think a part of me from this thought 'well, 5 stars isn't just all about luck, I'm obviously on to something here'. Which in hindsight was wrong.

I think how the pages are now, most creators could make the kind of level that could reach the highest rated. Say something like Lil Platformer for instance, it's easy, simple, kiddies will love it. Now, just because you created a level like that doesn't mean that you are necessarily guaranteed to get on the highest rated. After all, there's loads of other factors that come in that could ruin those chances.

Basically, having the 'right' level is only ticking one box, and to get to the highest rated (genuinely) there's lots of other boxes that need to be ticked, the biggest one being luck.

The highest rated page is now full of people who have just beat the system to get there. I think is real shame that it has come to this and that it really defeats the point of it. I do not see any satisfaction in manufacturing your way up to the top of something. Surely the reward comes from knowing that the community as a whole (no matter how bad it is) believes your level is worthy of being on that page?

Personally, it has reached a stage of corruption where I just do not care anymore. I once had 3 levels on the page 1 of the highest page bunch together, and I honestly feel that was an achievement. Could the people on the there now honestly say that what they have done is an accomplishment?
Nobody could have said it better.



But don't forget that some of the levels on the Highest Rated did actually get there the right way without using any tricks. As already mentioned, Baja Racing is one of them, and The Bunker is another, too bad I can't say that about his other levels...		2010-02-08 20:21:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

In all honesty, the system of "highest rated" levels is a matter of putting in enough free items that's easily obtainable and advertising in FULL CAPS. I still can't believe that the Monocycle levels are still up there. All that is is just a one-wheeled bike fixated into a rail out of view. Go play one and see for yourself.2010-02-08 20:43:00

Author:
Outlaw-Jack
Posts: 5757

Oh yeah, there's obviously exceptions to what I just said on the highest rated page. Jww's and the Logic Pack being a couple of them. I wasn't saying that all the levels on there have now 'cheated' to get there...just the majority of them.

How do you "cheat" in LBP?


Nobody could have said it better.



But don't forget that some of the levels on the Highest Rated did actually get there the right way without using any tricks. As already mentioned, Baja Racing is one of them, and The Bunker is another, too bad I can't say that about his other levels...

What does this mean?

Only cheating i see is people that purposely rate 1 star on a level that people don't think "desevere" it or "cheated".

Locking a level is not a "trick". It is a feature.

It is not the players fault it gets 2000 plays while locked for it's first 7 days and ends up on cool levels page. Now after cool pages if a level stays locked that isn't fair, but ultimately... it is up to the player. Lock is a feature Mm has had from day 1.

I agree.... with Centurians original post. Why do we have 10 levels locked on highest rated? Make then unsearchable would be incredible!		2010-02-08 20:55:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

Avoiding 1st page of cool pages is NOT a trick. In my case, I'm not "showing" there anymore. I'm not puting one of my levels in the middle of a "jungle" of shark survivals.
Anyone can publish and wait for a week to unlock his levels. I'll always do it like this.
@Endless_cho: not any level can reach 1st page of highest ranked just because is locked. If any level could do it, you'd probably already be there (if you have any levels), but it seems that you can't. That's why you're madly jealous.		2010-02-08 21:23:00

Author:
poms
Posts: 383

Oh yeah, there's obviously exceptions to what I just said on the highest rated page. Jww's and the Logic Pack being a couple of them. I wasn't saying that all the levels on there have now 'cheated' to get there...just the majority of them.


How do you "cheat" in LBP?

You can't, hence why 'cheat' was in quote marks. It was just a quicker way of saying 'played the system'.		2010-02-08 21:37:00

Author:
jackofcourse
Posts: 1494

Avoiding 1st page of cool pages is NOT a trick. In my case, I'm not "showing" there anymore. I'm not puting one of my levels in the middle of a "jungle" of shark survivals.
Anyone can publish and wait for a week to unlock his levels. I'll always do it like this.
@Endless_cho: not any level can reach 1st page of highest ranked just because is locked. If any level could do it, you'd probably already be there (if you have any levels), but it seems that you can't. That's why you're madly jealous.
Well you clearly showed with Miracle of Life and Hells Angles 2 that you can.

And lol, I'm jealous? Of what? See this is the mentality I hate of people with a huge ego, you think you are the best and everyone else is out to get you, when nobody cares. It's a fact that you've used these tricks in order to get ahead of others and you still play the victim.		2010-02-08 22:40:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

Ok, enough attacks already. Lets stick to the Threads intentions.

"Why are there levels locked on Highest rated?" Has nothing to do with 7 days of glory from cool pages.

Can't we all just be friends? hehehe.		2010-02-08 22:47:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

It was only an achievement when I did it. And when all my friends did it. But when others did it it was sad and wrong.

I think as a community (as in this site's community, not the game's) we're all getting passed this cool pages, highest rated crap and concentrating on making the best levels possible and I'm almost positive that most of the people doing so are finding the game much more enjoyable than they did in the past.		2010-02-09 03:12:00

Author:
Matt 82
Posts: 1096

three of them are bonus levels by amazingflying poo, which you only get by completing his levels. It's not his fault that people rated them highly.

Also, I'm not sure why you made two of these, so I locked the other one.

Wow, I was happy to see that someone already said this, because when I saw the name of this thread, I guessed that I was done for. I promise all of you that every single one of my levels on page one were locked on their very initial publishing. I know that my levels have never been very popular on LBPCentral, so most of you probably have no idea what they even are, but if you saw what those locked levels were, then you would understand completely why they are locked.

In 3 of my LBL series levels (LBL#2, #3, and #4) I have 10 custom stickers hidden in each level. At the end of each of the level I give a key to the accompanying level, and each of the stickers that you find can be used to unlock more of the story. If you collect 1 sticker, then you get a little more story, if you collect 10 stickers you get a lot more of the story. This way, if someone likes my LBL series, they can go to the extra level and get all the extra details (and there's a lot of info in them, I spend around 10 hours just stickering all of the letters to make up the story!), but if they are not all that interested, then they aren't bothered with it in the main level.

My wife came up with the whole idea, so I think that I am allowed to say that it is pretty ingenious (the main reason I am so impressed is that it is the first time that I have ever seen people actually wanting to collect items in a level. I want to reiterate, not my idea). The end result is that the levels will naturally get relatively high scores, because the people who are not interested in the original level will ignore the accompanying level, but the people who liked the original level will play the accompanying level and most likely like it.

I'm very sorry that I have made so many people mad, and I am a bit afraid that I'm in for a big "1-star" rating spree on my levels if people are so upset. I haven't even had a PS3 for about 4 months because my wife and I moved to China to teach in a school/oprphanage, so I can't modify the level anyway, but I wouldn't if I could because if the level was unlocked it would make no sense. You would go into it and it would ask you for stickers from another level and then the player would just be confused.

I really hope that people can understand that I have never had bad intent with this, and the locking has absolutely nothing to do with trying to get on page 1. I think that Mm gave us the lock function for a reason, and I used it for that very reason.		2010-02-09 04:26:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

Lol, I think you are safe amazingflyingpoo, I think that the thread was intended to be more about the people who lock their levels on purpose knowing this will garner them higher ratings, thus makng them more popular.2010-02-09 04:44:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

I hope so. It just worries me since this seems to be a sort of hot topic, and I make up half of the "offending" levels in some people's minds (those who don't know what the levels are and are just mad about the fact that people are dumb enough to have locked levels on page 1).2010-02-09 04:53:00

Author:
amazingflyingpoo
Posts: 1515

omg! Why does locking feature matter!! It has nothing to do with getting popular, or being famous... this is so silly.

It is a feature Mm gave us, just as Amazing Flying Poo stated.

How can some of you favor one person locking over another?


That is called Favortism. Period.

Lol.

Locking is locking.		2010-02-09 05:10:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

I hope so. It just worries me since this seems to be a sort of hot topic, and I make up half of the "offending" levels in some people's minds (those who don't know what the levels are and are just mad about the fact that people are dumb enough to have locked levels on page 1).
I don't think anyone will hold any anger toward you, I mean you haven't done anything wrong.

But there are others in the community that use the locking feature to their advantage. During the first few days of having published their levels they'll lock them and let only their friends play them knowing they will rate highly. I know it isn't against any rule, but in my opinion if you constantly have to use tricks to get onto the Highest Rated page you really don't deserve to be on there at all.		2010-02-09 05:20:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

If your level can be accessed by a key then it is playable. Thank you for letting me know. Now I wonder if others can be played if we are so lucky as to find the level with the key. Maybe the locked levels should somehow redirect the player to the key holding level.2010-02-09 06:02:00

Author:
CENTURION24
Posts: 266

During the first few days of having published their levels they'll lock them and let only their friends play them knowing they will rate highly. I know it isn't against any rule, but in my opinion if you constantly have to use tricks to get onto the Highest Rated page you really don't deserve to be on there at all.

You know you are right.

But I don't know if you know what it is like to release a new level and get 3 stars and rubbish, annoying, empty, daft tags at only 30 plays.

When you get alot of fans. You got alot of haters too.

Should these creators make a new PSN like some have done? No, why do that?

Mm made the lock feature for what reason? So players that want to play your other levels can. It simply prevents haters and jealous people that do not like you or your levels from rating your levels 1 star and uploading horrible tags.

You are right Echo and so are people who "need" to lock thier levels. They created them for people to enjoy, not to destroy.		2010-02-09 07:58:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

Well you clearly showed with Miracle of Life and Hells Angles 2 that you can.
As I already said in its moment, this two levels were moderated when they were in cool pages. (Of course you "ran" to me to tell me I'm a liar). I changed several things and republished them locked to avoid cool pages. No one would have ever cared, but both went to 1st page and that seem to worry you a lot.

And lol, I'm jealous? Of what?
You are the only person in the world who knows how many author heart has everyone in this community. I was going to say you are obsessed with this game, but the truth is you are obsessed with hearts, stars, popularity... That's why you hate me. I got too many

See this is the mentality I hate of people with a huge ego,
One more time you're supposing wrong things. I learned long ago I don't have to look anyone over his shoulder even if I had a reason to. I'm too old for that. And this is another of the differences between you and me. You hate a lot of things, and I wonder why, or is it just part of the previous point?

you think you are the best and everyone else is out to get you, when nobody cares.
And no one does. or no one should care. But you seem to care a lot. Let's see how many posts till you refer about me with or without irony.		2010-02-09 08:22:00

Author:
poms
Posts: 383

That was so simple...


unlocked level = in pool
|
if lock = not in pool		2010-02-09 16:53:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

Guys!and gals
Does it really matter? If they are locked don't play 'em, SIMPLE.


Locked. 		2010-02-09 17:12:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Actually my viewpoint of this is very much from the opposite point of view. I'm beyond caring about the creators who squabble and fight for the top spots of anywhere. It doesn't get in my way in the slightest.

My gripe with this is simply that it is indicative of MM's attitude towards the community aspects of the game: sheer apathy. They don't have any interest in improving the community features of the game, despite it being obvious to everyone how badly designed they are. As CCubbage says, this sort of thing could be corrected over lunch. Assuming the community searches are driven by SQL:

WHERE locked = FALSE


That's it. That's all it would take. Now that wouldn't change the face of the game, or realistically improve the game for anyone, but come on, it's a basic fix that should be done as a matter of course, because it's so simple and so obvious. But they don't care. Which is why we will never see improvements to the searching or tagging systems, we won't see the addition of genres, or creator tagging, or the ability to self moderate uploaded images, or any of the million and 1 tiny enhancements that could easily improve the community experience for everyone.		2010-02-09 17:32:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

WHERE locked = FALSE

I'd like to see THIS SQL statement:

WHERE locked = FALSE AND Genre = "Arcade" AND difficulty = 'Hard' AND NOT (LevelName LIKE '%H4H%' OR LevelName LIKE '%BOMB%&apos

The truth is, some of the apparent "tricks" are really targetting an audience. I did the same thing with Lunar Lander, and Wex did the same thing with OMG A Robot Revolution. Since there's no way to direct appropriate players to your level, and everything is dumped in a huge pile on cool levels I think it's appropriate to find techniques to get the right people to play your levels.

Besides, even when you unlock a 5 star level if the general players don't like it, it will drop rather quickly. So, in the end it doesn't really matter too much.		2010-02-09 17:53:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Besides, even when you unlock a 5 star level if the general players don't like it, it will drop rather quickly. So, in the end it doesn't really matter too much.
I think having a level with 5 Stars does influence a lot of people, many don't care about what rating the level gets and just rate it what it already is, this is why so many on the Highest Rated page are still there after all these months. Just look at Space Escape, the reason it's only 3 Stars is because it was released back when the default was 3 Stars.


As I already said in its moment, this two levels were moderated when they were in cool pages. (Of course you "ran" to me to tell me I'm a liar). I changed several things and republished them locked to avoid cool pages. No one would have ever cared, but both went to 1st page and that seem to worry you a lot.

You are the only person in the world who knows how many author heart has everyone in this community. I was going to say you are obsessed with this game, but the truth is you are obsessed with hearts, stars, popularity... That's why you hate me. I got too many

One more time you're supposing wrong things. I learned long ago I don't have to look anyone over his shoulder even if I had a reason to. I'm too old for that. And this is another of the differences between you and me. You hate a lot of things, and I wonder why, or is it just part of the previous point?

And no one does. or no one should care. But you seem to care a lot. Let's see how many posts till you refer about me with or without irony.
You know poms, you are totally right, I'm soooooooooo jealous of you and am looking at your profile all day everyday. Allll your levels are perfect in every single way and allll deserve their 5 Star ratings. Alllll of them got their because you are such a great creator, I just can't stop talking about how aaaawesome you are. You are the beeeeeeeest, I totaly wiiiiiish I was you. I'm completely jealous of allllll your author hearts, I can't believe you are sooooo smart to have figured that out. Jeez, I wiiiiish I was as cool as you.


2010-02-09 21:01:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

Stop fighting endless echo and poms!2010-02-09 21:08:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

I think having a level with 5 Stars does influence a lot of people, many don't care about what rating the level gets and just rate it what it already is, this is why so many on the Highest Rated page are still there after all these months. Just look at Space Escape, the reason it's only 3 Stars is because it was released back when the default was 3 Stars.

This is SORT OF true. As I said... if they don't like it the level will drop. Whether they like it or not has little to do with quality, and more to do with subject matter and ease of play. A level that contains a puzzle, for instance, drops rather quickly. As Poms mentioned before, these levels at the top of highest rated are "fast food" levels. I've watched MANY 5 star levels drop down and become 4 stars, including one of my own at around 2000 plays.... last year, page 3 of highest rated. Now... completely gone from highest rated (I was guilty of having a small puzzle....).

As for locking a level and using play-throughs to retain 5 stars, there is also several ways to look at this - you could either think of it as cheating, or think of it as targetting your audience. Obviously, if I have players go through a tutorial level in order to enter my "Lunar Lander" game, it will retain a 5 star status because the people entering the level like that sort of game. In the same way, if Poms uses his other levels to direct traffic into a locked Miracle of Life level, he's having people who like his gameplay to then experience his level.

Considering the LittleBigPlanet audience, I don't disagree with being able to target an audience since Media Molecule otherwise forces us to deal with a lot of people that will judge a level based on the type of game they like to play rather than the quality of a level (a 5 star puzzle level, for instance, is 2 stars simply because it's..... a puzzle level).

Once again, the real issue here isn't how creators are choosing to work around the base issue, but whether MM is going to eventually allow a much more robust way to get our levels to the right audience.		2010-02-09 22:50:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Once again, the real issue here isn't how creators are choosing to work around the base issue, but whether MM is going to eventually allow a much more robust way to get our levels to the right audience.

You're right, Cub. It's just another example of art mimicking life again. There are users, and there are abusers. Whatever systems are put in place, you can be sure there'll be people keen to exploit them. And every successive measure will have the hackers and seekers will find some counter-measure, and so the cycle will continue.

Me, I just want to have bloody fun without all the faffing around. But I'm old. 		2010-02-09 23:40:00

Author:
MrsSpookyBuz
Posts: 1492

CCubbage couldn't have said it better.

The only other way to retain a 5 star is to create a new account. We all know Rouf did this with lil' Platformer. But why make a new PSN?

Once you have a level that has had alot of plays, you become a target. LBP is just like getting famous in real life. You have people that try to bring you down.

Example: Mr. Gruntos UK new level just dropped to 4 stars. Why? We all know why. Because some moron rated him 1 star, because he is too popular and didn't think he deserved his 5 stars. We all know his level smokes 90% of the levels on highest rated pages.

Example: Lost in the Pacific 3 just got moderated. His new copy is 4 stars. Why? Same reason. Haters and jealous people.		2010-02-09 23:55:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

CCubbage couldn't have said it better.

The only other way to retain a 5 star is to create a new account. We all know Rouf did this with lil' Platformer. But why make a new PSN?

Once you have a level that has had alot of plays, you become a target. LBP is just like getting famous in real life. You have people that try to bring you down.

Example: Mr. Gruntos UK new level just dropped to 4 stars. Why? We all know why. Because some moron rated him 1 star, because he is too popular and didn't think he deserved his 5 stars. We all know his level smokes 90% of the levels on highest rated pages.


I think you're putting a little too much emphasises on people hating famous creators. Sure, there are the odd ones who experience this but I don't think it's quite as prevalent as you're suggesting. You used Gruntos as your example there, and I very much doubt that the reason for his levels getting rated down is because he has 'haters'. It's more likely because his level are only for a specific, more mature, audience and the little kiddies aren't going to like it. I think Grant will be the first to admit that if one of his levels retained 5 stars, it would be somewhat of a shock! Of course, his levels deserve 5 stars but the fact is when they are open to the whole community, you are always going to get a lot of plays off people who can't work it out and quit due to that.

As I said, there's no doubt that certain creators can become targets. But there are lots of other issues that I would consider more of reason why levels get rated down. (The example I just used above about Grant's levels being one of them).



Example: Lost in the Pacific 3 just got moderated. His new copy is 4 stars. Why? Same reason. Haters and jealous people.

To be fair, I wouldn't say any of the Lost in the Pacific levels 5 stars anyway so I don't really consider that as a good example.

Basically, I think there's lots and lots of other things that effect a level being rated down more than being 'hated'. I wouldn't really consider that a major issue for many creators. I certainly wouldn't consider myself to be 'targeted' anyway.		2010-02-10 00:48:00

Author:
jackofcourse
Posts: 1494

Actually, my theory on anything Grant makes is once again target audience.... his levels require some brains. Many players in LittleBigPlanet are either casual gamers or kids. And, in all honesty, I think its becoming more so. And if someone plays a level and feels stuck, the rating is going to drop. However, I know neither one of us wants to change the types of levels we make for popularity. In doing so, we deprive some of the more hardcore gamers of their fun in order to satisfy masses of casual gamers.

Tell you what, Lunar Lander is my least popular level, but one I'm most proud of.... having a very select few play it for MANY hours was enough to make the game worth it.

EDIT: I see JackOfCourse came in and made the same point about Grant's levels.... well, we must be right!
2010-02-10 00:50:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

The simple statistical analysis of what it actually takes to retain a 5 star level is one of the major resons (if not the primary reason) that levels drop to four stars This is of course amplified by the majority of players rating in the way that CCubbage describes. Haters or no, the probability of any level getting 5 stars is very slim, regardless of quality.

Like CCubbage, I just want in game facilities to promote my levels to the people that want to play them, rather than just everyone. It's taken me months to get setbacks played by a reasonable number of people within its (admittidly small) target audience and that has been almost exclusively through forums (lil bit of help from chimpanzee's video and the sackies), nothing in game helps me to promote that level. All I could do in game was try to push away the wrong audience through marketing strategies, which helps in a roundabout way, but it's doesn't really assist you in getting it to the right people. Difficulty and genre tags could have had that level pwning right from the start. Cap'n Sackbeard's Booty saw way more success in terms of plays, probably because of being on compher's published levels. But look at the hearts : plays on that. Totally unjustified considering what it is, because it is not reasching it's target audience.


What use is a game that promotes creativity, when anything but the most mainstream of creations is systemically punished?		2010-02-10 01:04:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

I completely agree with Jack,CC and RTM. I am glad you mentioned those points. But I know the hater issue exsists. How else would i get Rubbish,Daft,Lousy,Empty and Annoying tags on my new level with only 30 plays and 10 completed.

Speaking of Lunar Lander, I really wish i could play this. For some reason keys do not work for me. Any chance of releasing an unlocked copy for a week? Maybe Unlock it for tonight? I loved your Invaders level so much, i know i'd love this creation.
I have tried a few friends to play for me, but unfortunately i am not the only one with the keys not working issue.		2010-02-10 01:30:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

Speaking of Lunar Lander, I really wish i could play this. For some reason keys do not work for me. Any chance of releasing an unlocked copy for a week? Maybe Unlock it for tonight? I loved your Invaders level so much, i know i'd love this creation.
Actually, I unlocked it right after the week the tutorial was on cool pages.

And I agree the hater issue exists... especially when you're dealing with Jealous people. I just don't think all low ratings fall under this category, and for a creator of his calibur GruntosUK has been pretty low key, so I don't think he's attracted too many haters.		2010-02-10 01:53:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

I completely agree with Jack,CC and RTM. I am glad you mentioned those points. But I know the hater issue exsists. How else would i get Rubbish,Daft,Lousy,Empty and Annoying tags on my new level with only 30 plays and 10 completed.

Speaking of Lunar Lander, I really wish i could play this. For some reason keys do not work for me. Any chance of releasing an unlocked copy for a week? Maybe Unlock it for tonight? I loved your Invaders level so much, i know i'd love this creation.
I have tried a few friends to play for me, but unfortunately i am not the only one with the keys not working issue.
This isn't an offense to you, but has the thought ever come into your head that maybe the people that played your level(that you use an example of) just didn't like it? Instead of just putting all the blame on these "haters."

And I think Lunar Lander has been unlocked for quite some time now.		2010-02-10 01:55:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

I completely agree with Jack,CC and RTM. I am glad you mentioned those points. But I know the hater issue exsists. How else would i get Rubbish,Daft,Lousy,Empty and Annoying tags on my new level with only 30 plays and 10 completed.

Perhaps they honestly didn't like your level...? Or because it was annoying and empty? Whether you like it or not, you give off an air of "I'm awesome, and anyone who doesn't like my work is a hater" with many of the comments you are making. I'm not saying that this is the message you are trying to send, but since you keep coming back to your own levels, that's what it seems. You say that you agree with everyone else, but you're still getting angry when people don't like your level. Read what everyone is saying: "Your levels will not appeal to everyone." No sense getting angry. Seriously. My best looking level to date is the only one with 3 stars. Do I worry about it? No.		2010-02-10 02:00:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

I think you're putting a little too much emphasises on people hating famous creators. Sure, there are the odd ones who experience this but I don't think it's quite as prevalent as you're suggesting. You used Gruntos as your example there, and I very much doubt that the reason for his levels getting rated down is because he has 'haters'. It's more likely because his level are only for a specific, more mature, audience and the little kiddies aren't going to like it. I think Grant will be the first to admit that if one of his levels retained 5 stars, it would be somewhat of a shock! Of course, his levels deserve 5 stars but the fact is when they are open to the whole community, you are always going to get a lot of plays off people who can't work it out and quit due to that.

As I said, there's no doubt that certain creators can become targets. But there are lots of other issues that I would consider more of reason why levels get rated down. (The example I just used above about Grant's levels being one of them).

I have to agree with Jack.. I doubt if Grant's dropped to 4 stars any differently than my latest dropped and I don't think either of us have any "haters". I might get a bit of angst directed my way if they just played my Baja level and then played Space Escape 1 or 2 thinking it was going to be just as easy. Especially my newest, it's harder, has some puzzles and kids get confused so they rate it like 3 or maybe even 1. Hmmm... maybe I need to pull that sticker out of Baja... lol !!!

I'm not sure it can be helped until Mm amends how ratings are given (by choice or possibly if they finish the level), adds genre, as well as a difficutly of sorts. Until then, and don't hold your breath, is if the creator buffers himself a bit like in CCubbage's case of having the training level unlock the main one. I suspect that is what Pom's is doing by having another level be the unlock for his others and hopefully attract more congenial players towards Pom's style as CCubbage suggests. I doubt it is something I would do unless I was in CCubbage's scenario, but to be honest I buffered myself in Space Escape II. I simply did a more mature and not so bright of a icon badge. I changed my creative packaging a bit to possibly a more mature taste. ..or at least that was my hope. I didn't get the plays I might have, but I think I also dissuaded those that probably would down rate for spite the first time or 10 times they died.

I do however think there are creators that absorb a bit more animosity towards themselves than let's say Grant for example. I think if a creator goes out of their way and leave nasty messages somewhere or blast back in retaliation for something someone left on your level, then well.. you are going to be nothing more than a fun adventure for a bunch of nasty players that enjoy nothing more than ruining your fun. In that case, a new PSN might be the only way to go. Not sure.. and no, I am not suggesting anyone on this thread has done this. I've just seen some choice firestorms of messages back and forth on levels that made me think twice of ever reaching out to someone that left a nasty message on one of my levels. I do the easy thing, I simply ignore them.

As soon as I start getting paid for what I do on LBP, I might actually worry about it a bit more. Until then, I just do it for fun as well as to share my wacky concepts with my friends and hopefully brighten someone's day for a bit.

Now.. have fun out there!! 		2010-02-10 02:00:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Perhaps they honestly didn't like your level...? Or because it was annoying and empty? Whether you like it or not, you give off an air of "I'm awesome, and anyone who doesn't like my work is a hater" with many of the comments you are making. I'm not saying that this is the message you are trying to send, but since you keep coming back to your own levels, that's what it seems. You say that you agree with everyone else, but you're still getting angry when people don't like your level. Read what everyone is saying: "Your levels will not appeal to everyone." No sense getting angry. Seriously.

"I'm awesome?" Come on man. Since when has this thread been about me?

Maybe you should read it from the start. Was there a need for that? I feel that was very rude and a personal attack.



I was simply telling you what happend to me. 30 plays with only 6 bad tags? Empty, Rubbish, Lousy, Annoying, daft and more. If you had played the level, I highly doubt you'd say it was empty..

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that one out.

Anyways. You seem to have more fans here then me, so why should i even argue? Please forgive me. /bow.

Thanks for the heads up on Lunar, I will check it out tonight.

Peace, and I will try hard to keep my opinoins to myself in the future.		2010-02-10 02:46:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

I'm not attacking you personally. I have been following this thread closely, and I've noticed its evolution to its current state. Really. Like I said, I didn't think this was the message you were trying to send, but continuing to make the same point about haters (in this thread and others) has become a bit of a broken record. Sure, there may be haters, but suggesting that they are solely determining your rating is silly. They can only rate it once. Sure, they can affect tags, but then they would just be feeding into your plays (you win, right?). Remember... tags mean absolutely nothing; as everyone else has hinted at, they serve basically no purpose.2010-02-10 03:03:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338


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