Archive: 31 posts

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Hi there. For one of my devices, the player controls directional movement by running left or right in a very tight space, with the platform he's standing on being a wheel with a mag key and some switches placed to either side of the wheel. The problem I'm having is that I can't figure out a way to have this wheel reset when a player is no longer actively moving in one direction. If the player moves to the right, the wheel turns and the key activates the switch. If they stop moving, they just stay there, as does the wheel. I need it to go back to neutral. I've tried using blocks with springs to force the player back to a neutral position, as well as elastic, or springs, attached to the wheel itself. If it's strong enough to drag it to a neutral position, the player can't make the wheel move far enough. Here is a diagram of the basic set up: http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i119/HellspawnCaverns/WheelControl.jpg

2010-02-08 08:56:00 Author: Unknown User

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I have such a device in my copyable level: "Vehicle Tools: Tilt and Motion Sensor and Control Pod (copyable)" (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=22150-Vehicle-tools-Tilt-and-motion-sensor-and-control-pod-%28Copyable%29) It uses a gear glued to the back of the wheel to push a pointer to the left or right. If you tweak it just right, the pointer will only stay in a left or right position while sackboy is moving and return to neutral when he stops. The level is copyable so you can tear apart the control pod and see how it works or just edit it to fit your needs and capture it. If you don't have the mgs pack, there's a key at the beginning of the level to unlock a dlc-free version that you can copy instead. The dlc-free one doesn't have the jeep at the end of the level, though. For another option, check out rtm223's copyable level, "Wheeley Good Switches." (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=12211) His devices use hamster wheels, but the same concept should be adaptable to a wheel you can run on top of. Tweaking it may be difficult due to the fact that you'll be shrinking the wheel, but it should be possible.

2010-02-08 10:39:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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How about palcing a prox switch with a really thin, small radius in the center of the setup, set to on/off and inverted, wired to a winch connected between the wheel and a fixed part of the control interface. When sackboy is in the middle, the winch is on and constantly adjusts so the wheel stays neutral. When sackboy moves, he deactivates the winch and the wheel moves. When he returns to neutral, the wheel may (I can't be sure) return also. I've used a virtually identical method to this for a long time now, and what I do is connect a string and an elastic to the wheel to limit movement and return to neutral, although this does rely on you jumping periodically (not a problem for my implementation, its how my Barracuda Gunship ascends).

2010-02-08 12:52:00 Author: croissantbuncake Posts: 572

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croissantbuncake: Sadly, the area in which sackboy may move is too narrow to use a sensor in that way. He doesn't really move to the left or right when he runs, he just makes the wheel turn. Sehven: I've been attempting to tweak that particular model for a while now, but I can't seem to get it to reset to neutral reliably. If you stop turning the wheel at the wrong moment, the pointer seems to wind up sticking in one direction, until you start running again. Am I doing something wrong, or is that an inherent flaw in the design? If so, any ideas on what might make it work better, or ideas for alternative ways to do it?

2010-02-08 13:29:00 Author: Unknown User

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http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=12558 what if, instead of a wheel, you used something like this.

2010-02-08 16:02:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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Sehven: I've been attempting to tweak that particular model for a while now, but I can't seem to get it to reset to neutral reliably. If you stop turning the wheel at the wrong moment, the pointer seems to wind up sticking in one direction, until you start running again. Am I doing something wrong, or is that an inherent flaw in the design? If so, any ideas on what might make it work better, or ideas for alternative ways to do it? Hm.... I'll have to look at that. I noticed that the one I've got sitting on the floor does that sometimes, but didn't really think anything of it, cuz my vehicle ones work fine (the movement of the vehicle must jostle the pointer enough to get it back into a neutral position). Maybe I've got the pointer sticking too deep into the teeth, or maybe I should try making it and/or the gear out of glass. For a stationary application, IStwisted's idea may be practical. I think there might be a bit of lag on the inputs though, since sackboy takes a while to build up any speed when running on glass, and you may end up with a constant on/off cycle as he slides back and then works his way forward again.

2010-02-08 21:07:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Well if you have a tight fit on the circle, trymaking it smaller and surrounded by glass, mabey add some stone to the bottom

2010-02-09 02:58:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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IStwisted: Sadly, sackboy cannot climb the glass and stay there, in fact, he barely seems able to climb the glass at all. I tried lessening the incline, and even put dissolve in the middle for him to slide back to, but it doesn't seem to work at all. =/ Sackboys feet are made of butter or something. Sehven: Actually, I noticed with the vehicle in that level that it did continue forward sometimes, and even got it stuck going forward unless I actively made it go backwards. I also think I broke the rockets or something, because I got it flipped multiple times, but it only righted itself the first time. Maybe I just have terrible luck. =P Emogotsaone: I just tried that, after your suggestion, but unfortunately it doesn't work. Because sackboy is always standing on the wheel, either the rock doesn't have enough weight to swing back down, or it does, but sackboy can't make the circle turn because of that weight. So, basically, I'm stumped. =P In other news, I have another question, but don't want to clutter the help forum. Is there some way, perhaps via relays and whatnot, to control the direction a wheel is going, but also have a speed setting acted upon it? So, for example, the closer the mag key is to the right mag switch, the faster it will turn right, but if you move it over to the left mag switch, the closer it is, the faster it turns left.

2010-02-09 07:28:00 Author: Unknown User

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Is there some way, perhaps via relays and whatnot, to control the direction a wheel is going, but also have a speed setting acted upon it? So, for example, the closer the mag key is to the right mag switch, the faster it will turn right, but if you move it over to the left mag switch, the closer it is, the faster it turns left. You could stack 2 motor bolts going in opposite directions and use the speed setting on the magnetic switches

2010-02-09 12:56:00 Author: Shadowheaven Posts: 378

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You can set three way switches to speed. You do have to develop a method for controlling the position of the three way based upon the speed control of the mag switches though (rockets?), alternatively you have an incremental speed feature using several mag switches to detect different distances and control the three way using several winches. I've used shadowheaven's method before and that works quite nicely too.

2010-02-09 13:01:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Thank you for the ideas, both of you. I had a bit of a face palm moment when you mentioned stacking two motor bolts, Shadowheaven, as I've used that for a few things before. =P As for the speed setting on the three way switch that you mentioned, rtm223, I discovered that earlier, but kind of dreaded the idea of trying to make a stable method for controlling it. The problem is, I'm never satisfied if it only does the job well, so it takes me a heck of a long time to make it work flawlessly, and if I can't, I try not to use. I want to make something that uses as few layers as possible though, so I guess I'll try to make that three way switch work. Oh well, something else to keep me occupied. ^_^'

2010-02-09 13:29:00 Author: Unknown User

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IStwisted: Sadly, sackboy cannot climb the glass and stay there, in fact, he barely seems able to climb the glass at all. I tried lessening the incline, and even put dissolve in the middle for him to slide back to, but it doesn't seem to work at all. =/ Sackboys feet are made of butter or something. Sehven: Actually, I noticed with the vehicle in that level that it did continue forward sometimes, and even got it stuck going forward unless I actively made it go backwards. I also think I broke the rockets or something, because I got it flipped multiple times, but it only righted itself the first time. Maybe I just have terrible luck. =P Emogotsaone: I just tried that, after your suggestion, but unfortunately it doesn't work. Because sackboy is always standing on the wheel, either the rock doesn't have enough weight to swing back down, or it does, but sackboy can't make the circle turn because of that weight. So, basically, I'm stumped. =P In other news, I have another question, but don't want to clutter the help forum. Is there some way, perhaps via relays and whatnot, to control the direction a wheel is going, but also have a speed setting acted upon it? So, for example, the closer the mag key is to the right mag switch, the faster it will turn right, but if you move it over to the left mag switch, the closer it is, the faster it turns left. Darn, i thought that would do it! I'll work on it this afternoon, if i get one ill send it to you.

2010-02-09 13:32:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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I haven't gotten around to trying to fine tune my control pod yet, but I do think the method is still sound (I'm surprised you got the buggy stuck in drive: I was sure that wasn't possible). I just need to find the right settings: how far to have the point stick into the teeth, how tight to make the spring bolt and whatnot. As for the rocket flipping, it's possible that the tilt sensor got de-calibrated. I tested and tested it and it never broke on me, but that doesn't mean it can't. If I had used the tilt sensor with the bit of orange floaty in the top, it probably wouldn't have messed up. Since that solution doesn't seem to work for you, did you check out the other option I suggested: Rtm's wheeley good switches? What you can do is have another wheel behind the wheel sackboy runs on. Give it a motor bolt and put two mag switches on it: one for each direction. Put a key on on your running wheel and whenever you make the wheel spin, it will drive the other wheel to spin too. You can hook the same 3way that controls your back wheel to the actual mechanism you're trying to control. It'll take a bit of doing to tweak it just right so that you don't get any jittering, but it is a workable solution.

2010-02-09 13:42:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Emogotsaone: Thank you. ^_^ Sehven: Actually, it completely slipped my mind. Next time I'm on, I shall have to remember to check that level. I'm afraid I don't fully understand what you suggest, and how that would allow for the system to reset when you're not moving, but I'll look into it. Also, sorry for breaking your machines so easily, I must have truly terrible luck. =P EDIT: rtm223, I just checked, and while the three way switch does have a speed setting, it's not directional. Pulling the lever to the right is the same as pulling it to the left. =/

2010-02-09 13:53:00 Author: Unknown User

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The wheeley good switch is a three way controller that allows sackboy to turn a wheel clockwise or anticlockwise to control the output to anything you want. The example I have is to operate a drawbridge. As the wheel stops moving, the drawbridge stop moving. However, there is a little bit of illusion going on there. To prevent the wheel spinning to fast or continuing to spin, the bolt is set to be quite stiff. This prevents lag as the mechanism catches up. It will likely cause sackboy to be unable to turn the wheel in your example by simply running on it. The principle may work, but will likely take a fair amount of tweaking to get right. As for the three way speed, what are you outputting to? I swear I've done it with certain connectors (motor bolt??) and got proper bi-directional speed control. The main problem is you can't get it to stop at 0 easilly

2010-02-09 15:20:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I checked out the level, but I need to get around to purchasing the history pack before I can pull it apart to have a look. =P As for the three way, I was outputting to a motor bolt, and I slowly pulled from the left all the way to the right. It slowed, stopped at the middle, then sped up again, respectively.

2010-02-09 15:26:00 Author: Unknown User

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I checked out the level, but I need to get around to purchasing the history pack before I can pull it apart to have a look. =P As for the three way, I was outputting to a motor bolt, and I slowly pulled from the left all the way to the right. It slowed, stopped at the middle, then sped up again, respectively. Ok i can't get to it today, sorry.

2010-02-09 23:24:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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Does it need to be a speed output? I would use direction instead. It's kind of tough to explain without the visual (the history pack is definatly worth getting). So the back wheel has two mag switches on it controlling a remote three way that operates it's motor bolt. So when the right switch is triggered, it triggers the remote 3way to pull to the left, so that the wheel spins away. The mag key is on the wheel that sackboy runs on, and it's situated between the switches on the back wheel. When sackboy turns the wheel, the key gets close to one of the switches, which makes the wheel spin away from it and when sackboy stops, it will stop. Like rtm said, though, it's gonna' be tough to get it working perfectly on a smaller scale (I'm not completely sure it's possible). Sorry I haven't gotten around to trying to fix my control pod. I'll try to get to it some time today. [EDIT] I think I've got the control pod fixed: I moved the pointer out a bit and tightened up the spring. There's still a tiny bit of jitter at the start/stop, but it went back to neutral every time I stopped running. I'm referring to the one on the ground. The one in the buggy was such a pain to set up (the buggy wasn't designed with it in mind, so I had to shoe-horn it in) that there was no way I was going to try to tear it apart and put it back together again. In retrospect, I should've just made a simple car with the control pod, but I was proud of the buggy so I used it instead.

2010-02-10 00:31:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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That's actually a pretty neat idea, having the back wheel move away from the switch each time you get close. I wish I'd thought of something that neat. Unfortunately, for what I had in mind, it really does need to be controlled by a speed setting. Unfortunately, with the three way switch being about the only way I know of to control direction on one bolt (while having a neutral position), and it not being able to control speed and direction at once, I'm not sure that what I want is possible. =P Also, if you managed to get your control pod tweaked to work every time, maybe I should try and tweak the one I did up, see if I can get the same result.

2010-02-10 06:50:00 Author: Unknown User

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Rather than using a speed-set three way, I would double bolt two wheels and give each their own speed setting. Unless Mm ever gives us a way to set a "dead zone" in the middle of a three way, they're pretty much useless for speed. Anyway, I'd somehow missed the necessity of a speed input in your first post. Not sure if the control pod would work for that, unless sackboy just gives an on/off output and you use a relay to gradually increase speed.

2010-02-10 09:56:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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Sorry if I've missed this, but what exactly are you planning on having on the output of this contraption. If you can get away with 2 speed controlled stacked bolt on the output, I'm pretty sure I can get such a thing working, but I'm unlikely to have time to look into it until next week and it's been a while since I looked into these mechanisms. But one of my limiting factors was the number of layers to get a hamster wheel constructed with mechanisms behind, but as you are running on top, this actually frees up some space I think the level only uses the music from the history pack, so I can remove that quickly tonight. Check back after 8PM GMT if you're still interested.

2010-02-10 10:44:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Oh no, speed setting with the control pod isn't necessary, that's all good. I added another question a few posts in that involved controlling direction with a speed setting. Different questions entirely. =P EDIT: Woops, missed your post, rtm. If I can get a directional speed setting, it'll be outputted to a piston. Also to a motor bolt, if I can do that as well, but my primary concern is the piston. The question about running on the wheel is completely separate to the question about directional speed settings. I didn't want to make another help thread so soon after the first, so I just added it in here. Sorry for the confusion. ^_^'

2010-02-10 11:37:00 Author: Unknown User

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Ok check out my level LBPC wheel thing, my PSN is Jarheadgunner514 and the level is at the top of the world. This thing was really ******* me of though

2010-02-10 13:31:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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Rtm, if you need some theck and thack objects to increase the number of layers you can use, I can give them to you. It's always a bit of a chore to trick the game into letting you edit them (since I captured them as an object, it only lets me edit them) but I've pulled it off a couple times with other people.

2010-02-10 18:37:00 Author: Sehven Posts: 2188

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I think the level only uses the music from the history pack, so I can remove that quickly tonight. Check back after 8PM GMT if you're still interested. OK, I did forget about that, I've just done it now - only half an hour late, which is pretty darn good for me Rtm, if you need some theck and thack objects to increase the number of layers you can use, I can give them to you. I've definitely got some editable checkpoint layer, not sure about sackboy layer, but I just prefer not to use them is all @lady_wulf, I'll have to go back and read what you've written, I may have something stashed away that could be of use.

2010-02-10 20:33:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Emogotsaone: I'll definitely check it out next time I'm online. =) Thank you for the effort. ^_^ rtm223: Thanks for that. I'm pretty sure I figured out how to do it all, I just need to tweak the versions I whipped up to be a little more reliable. Having a look at your level in create mode will surely help, though, so thank you for that. =) By the way, did you ever have a problem where, with a thin layer using a motor bolt, and a thick layer in front with a normal bolt, if you spun the thick layer a little too fast, it'd start to shake weirdly and would continue spinning with the motor bolt behind it indefinitely?

2010-02-11 06:56:00 Author: Unknown User

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I connect the two bolts to a piece of dark matter. so you have motorbolt driven wheel behind the darkmatter, and a loose bolt driven wheel in front of the dark matter. For this reason the movement of one cannot affect the other as they are separated by dark matter - the moving parts are not directly connected.

2010-02-11 10:05:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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My solution is too glitchy...

2010-02-11 22:50:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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i see that you figured it out but I published a contraption called "crude boat" inspired by this thread. check it out if you like.

2010-02-14 17:31:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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i see that you figured it out but I published a contraption called "crude boat" inspired by this thread. check it out if you like. A boat? What help is that? And how was inspired by a wheel switch?

2010-02-15 21:36:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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It's controlled by a wheel switch (of sorts) that uses a winch to reset to a neutral position. I didn't say it would help. Just that I made it while experimenting with what I've learned from this thread. Thought maybe someone might find it useful or at least interesting. Did you try it? It accelerates by running (while holding r1) to the left or right. The wheel resets to neutral when you release R1. for now you have to hold DOWN+R1 to reset the thrust but I'm still working on it.

2010-02-16 00:18:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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