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Learning 3DStudioMax - 3D Sackboy!

Archive: 69 posts

Hi all

Today, inpreparation for the Sig contest V8, I will be attempting to learn 3DStudioMax.

Its a hugely complex 3D program and I'm dreading it but the rewards are fantastic.

If anyone knows any good tutorial pages, let me know.

My first project will be a Sackboy - I hope!

Watch this space....

Rhy		2010-02-05 21:38:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

Cool!! Good luck! One of those programs I have always wanted, but the price at the time was a bit out there for that kind of toy. Not that I haven't spent more on toys mind you, but if I recall correctly it seemed there were so many extra plugin's you also needed. That may not be the case anymore. Keep us posted! 2010-02-05 21:56:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

yeah i want it but i cant buy it XD

im not sure about tutorials just search google or look at some gfx sites/forums		2010-02-05 23:55:00

Author:
rseah
Posts: 2701

Ooooh Rhy, I'm sure if anyone can do it, you can.

Can't wait to see the results, good luck.		2010-02-06 01:30:00

Author:
mrsvista
Posts: 755

haha good luck Rhy It's too much for me to buy, though i have considered it in the past.

To a completley illegal site?		2010-02-06 11:32:00

Author:
Unknown User

Thanks for the support

For ages now I've been using DAZ Studio and pretty good with it but 3DS Max is pretty much the industry standard as Photoshop is for the graphic world.

I must say that this copy is a work copy. I too would not be able to afford it for private use.

My first attempt at a sackboy head took hours!!!

It is so alien to any other 3D or 2D package and I'm gonna have to go back to square 1 to learn from scratch.. none of this "I'll learn as I go" methodology!

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/Untitled-1.jpg

Rhy		2010-02-06 22:08:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

Lookin' good 2010-02-07 02:47:00

Author:
Unknown User

OK - It's been a while and I don't seem to have made much progress...

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/Untitled-1-1.jpg

I have now re-strarted this head 5 times, finding each time I constructed it in the wrong way..

This may also be wrong but at least it resembles a head lol.

This program is soooooo complex and I have had to revert to the tuts - a completely alien process to me normally.

Ah well - getting the head right is next!

Rhy		2010-02-18 21:34:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

Looks awesoem Rhy well done.2010-02-18 21:58:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

That looks good to me Rhy, Sackboy is coming to life! 2010-02-18 22:01:00

Author:
mrsvista
Posts: 755

Thanks to both of you - soon he'll be crying, talking, sleeping and walking - just like.... a living doll 2010-02-18 22:09:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

Hooray, can't wait! 2010-02-18 22:11:00

Author:
mrsvista
Posts: 755

I just had a sneaky peek at the latest progress and the geometry model is complete and it's looking good.

Good work Rhy!		2010-02-19 22:42:00

Author:
IceMaiden
Posts: 1057

LOL - this is now my 8th re-start at the geometry but I now feel I'm getting somewhere - at last!

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/Untitled-1-2.jpg

Just the arms to do, then hands, then zip, then surface texture, then bump map, then bones, then skinning, then posing - then done!

Only a few more minutes then lol.

Rhy		2010-02-19 23:11:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

That looks brilliant Rhy, he's really coming along. Can you leave his head blue please?2010-02-19 23:17:00

Author:
mrsvista
Posts: 755

LOL Mrs V!!

This is just the geometry model so the colour only represents each individual part.

The next stage is to split off the "skin" into a "UV Map" which can be coloured however you want and then applied as a material over the "clay" model. Also, I can apply a black/white map which will create a bumpy texture... eventually.

When I get to that stage, I'll be able to make customised Sackboys/Sackgirls in whatever colour your little heart desires!

Long ways to go yet hobbits's... 		2010-02-19 23:24:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

Lol This is awesome lol well done.2010-02-20 12:50:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

I'd like a blue Sackie, holding a blue fuzz ball please, preciousssssssss!2010-02-20 15:38:00

Author:
mrsvista
Posts: 755

I'm happy to say that stage 1 is complete!!

Sackboy geometry is now done and ready to add animation bones and textures.

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/Untitled-1-4.jpg

*Phew*		2010-02-22 22:42:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

WOW i am so impressed rhy this looks truly awesome.

Seen as you are doing so well i thought i'd post an update on my 3d moddeling i mad a carbon atom for my cheistry class this morning i know its only basic but it's my first real go so here it is:

http://i47.tinypic.com/21cfqtw.jpg

Juts so you know black represents carbon and red represents oxygen so Co2, not trying to steal your thinder or anythign rhy just wanted to show you.		2010-02-23 09:37:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

Cool - is that Blender?2010-02-23 21:27:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

I downloaded blender once.

I was like o.o

And then i deleted the program. End of story 		2010-02-23 21:34:00

Author:
Yarbone
Posts: 3036

I downloaded blender once.

I was like o.o

And then i deleted the program. End of story

*agrees*

(have i been using *blahblah* sentences too much?)		2010-02-23 21:44:00

Author:
Deviantgeek
Posts: 386

I downloaded blender once.

I was like o.o

And then i deleted the program. End of story

XD Yeah, Blender isn't that user friendly. I'm working with it m'self and...well the possibilities are there! Getting to them is the problem!		2010-02-23 22:08:00

Author:
GreyMRP
Posts: 588

hands look a tad small, may just be the angle, otherwise this is amazing!2010-02-24 01:00:00

Author:
Littlebigdude805
Posts: 1924

Well i quite like blender i can get stuff done here is another atom i made i also animated this one so what doyou think it's Ethanol RED = Oxygen, BLACK = Carbon, WHITE = Hydrogen

http://i45.tinypic.com/308jg9w.jpg		2010-02-24 10:33:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

lol, it looks like some kind of dog D:2010-02-24 10:51:00

Author:
Yarbone
Posts: 3036

That's what i was thinking lol2010-02-24 17:06:00

Author:
Unknown User

i have done some 3ds max my anamation was a ufo crashing into buildings2010-02-24 17:45:00

Author:
WESFUN
Posts: 1336

*i was thinking that too*

@WESFUN: do you have a picture? No pic no truth.		2010-02-24 21:50:00

Author:
Deviantgeek
Posts: 386

BUMP! How is the sackboy going?2010-02-28 03:53:00

Author:
Deviantgeek
Posts: 386

The development has slowed a bit I'm afraid..

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/Untitled-1-6.jpg

The image above shows the outer skin with the "bones" being placed inside so that it can be animated. Unfortunately, there appears to b something wrong with the topography (don't ask me what that means, I was just told) which means that when the bones are attached to the skin, the program crashed

So ATM I am having to re-model to see where I've gone wrong.

I'll keep you posted when I get a bit further.

Rhy		2010-02-28 10:30:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

Well keep it up your doing a great job.2010-02-28 11:30:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

OooooK - this is getting stupidly complex.

I have managed to give my MrSackboy here some bones and "welded" them to the outer model.

The trouble is that when you move, say an arm, it takes lots of geometry from other places too.... aaarrrgghhh

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/Untitled-1-7.jpg

'nuff said...

Rhy		2010-02-28 23:27:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

hiya Rhy
Im student Portsmouth Uni im in my third year of study now, im studying computer games technology and have specified in the design aspect of game design, im well taught in 3ds max, i only mention this because i see that u use some reference images to work from, however to get the best and most accurate result i'd recommend you looking into laying out your scene with some front, side and back blueprints of Sackboy like, look into laying out blueprints, for like cars ect. and convert that technique for the sackboy images and work in all viewports front, left, top and perspective, hopw this helps with ur attempt at sackboy
zuloo		2010-03-01 11:23:00

Author:
zuloo
Posts: 2

Thanks zuloo.

I have to admit, 3DS Max is not for beginners!

Thanks for the tip on reference images. I did try to get some decent images but none seemed good enough quality to use, so I had to view him on screen and interpret it as best I could.

My major problem now is getting the envelopes right on my biped - nightmare!

Rhy		2010-03-01 22:20:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

Enveloping the character with the bipod in place just takes time and practice i hav however found some perfect blueprints for u to use as reference images they are in the attached file13354 u just need to chop it using windows 'snipping tool' into side, front and back images making sure the same sides are equal like the height in the front back and side should be identical. hope it helps keep us posted on your progress
zuloo
p.s i have also attached an image of the female character i am modelling at the momen13355t		2010-03-02 14:24:00

Author:
zuloo
Posts: 2

At last I have a reasonable representation!!!

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/Untitled-1-8.jpg

Some of the bone joint angles are a bit strange but overall, we have an LBPC Sackboy model - yay!!

zuloo - thanks for the template. I do have a problem that maybe you can help with. The base body mesh is physique bonded with the biped, but the eyes and zip assembly are not attached in any way so if I want to animate the character, they do not move with it. Do I group, or assemble or what? The tuts are not clear unfortunately. I would attach the original 3DS file, but can't on this forum, so if you're interested in helping me finish this project, I could e-mail it?

Your female character is a challenge and a half and looks brilliant so far. Personally, I'd probably resort to Mike or Vic4 from Daz lol.

Next phase - texturing!!

Rhy		2010-03-02 22:43:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

Awwwww! So cute! I shall call him 'Stitch Face'!

Icey		2010-03-02 23:11:00

Author:
IceMaiden
Posts: 1057

Little Sackie is brilliant Rhy, he looks amazing, well done.2010-03-02 23:18:00

Author:
mrsvista
Posts: 755

AHHHH He is awesome well done i love it.2010-03-03 17:37:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

Why do you need tutorials?
There is a help section (F1).

doesnt anybody know that?


http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs39/f/2008/362/6/d/6d5dd8a8e5420bc8d22d6c965dfacfb7.jpg

http://spellborn.acclaim.com/images/pic-638.jpg


My last work before my arms got fubar.

My biggest sugg.
Dont use the pc the whole day,
buy an ergonomic keyboard/mouse/wacomboard/chair/desk.
take a 10 min. break each two hours.
Do excersices/sports/jogging etc, eat healthy... because if not, in 10 years you may end up like me,
useless to society and not able to use the pc more than a few minutes at a time.


Also, look around in the book stores, ask them if they have a "3dsmax 4 dummies" or any other book with in depth stuff.
but even better is.. nowdays you can buy hours and hours of vid. tutorials on ebay etc.
Also if you have an original version of 3dsmax (registered) you will have access to sheisseloads of tutorials,
besides the free ones on one of the pages from autodesk.

enjoy, but stay healthy!		2010-03-03 19:27:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

Why do you need tutorials?
There is a help section (F1).

doesnt anybody know that?


http://fc09.deviantart.net/fs39/f/2008/362/6/d/6d5dd8a8e5420bc8d22d6c965dfacfb7.jpg

http://spellborn.acclaim.com/images/pic-638.jpg


My last work before my arms got fubar.

My biggest sugg.
Dont use the pc the whole day,
buy an ergonomic keyboard/mouse/wacomboard/chair/desk.
take a 10 min. break each two hours.
Do excersices/sports/jogging etc, eat healthy... because if not, in 10 years you may end up like me,
useless to society and not able to use the pc more than a few minutes at a time.


Also, look around in the book stores, ask them if they have a "3dsmax 4 dummies" or any other book with in depth stuff.
but even better is.. nowdays you can buy hours and hours of vid. tutorials on ebay etc.
Also if you have an original version of 3dsmax (registered) you will have access to sheisseloads of tutorials,
besides the free ones on one of the pages from autodesk.

enjoy, but stay healthy!

Why, what happened to you?		2010-03-03 20:43:00

Author:
Unknown User

btw, awesome sackboy!
(forgot to mention that).

Well i got some form of RSI.
(Repetative straining injury).
But mine is beyond what you would call RSI.
My muscles lost strength, when I raise my arms up 90 degrees or all the way up to my head no blood will go trough and in mere minutes my arms will go numb.
Also the soft mushy stuff between bones (dont know the english word for it) started to wither away and the thingy the muscles are attached to feel like they are infected/stressed out.

And it mostly happened due to me getting an assignment at my work that resulted in me dragging over 10.000.000 vertexes manually to make the overall material that was on it look better, as well as fixing vertex-mistakes that would result in glitchy/dumb polygons who where unable to create a triangle (and therefore glitching).
To give you an example on how i feel..

Drinking feels like needles in my wrists, using a keyboard (without speechrecognition) will feel like an intense workout (I used to bodybuild/fitness and had an awesome manly figure.. and now I cannot even lift a few kilo's without the feeling of a hammer hitting me right on the shoulders)
I cannot sleep on my sides due to the pain in my arms.
I cannot lay on top of my gf (when cuddling you pervert!) without going trough some sort of shear pain.
I cannot use the Wiimote as it will hurt my arms more than a hammer would do.


This all was written with my speechrecognition,
as its still learning my way of speaking english it can make typo's, especially because I have to correct it.. and sometimes give an incorrect answer.. resulting in the software remembering the wrong imput as correct.		2010-03-03 21:29:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1580/skinninggonebad.jpg

My hammersack I did a year or two ago. DO - NOT - LIKE - SKINNING!		2010-03-04 19:57:00

Author:
BasketSnake
Posts: 2391

Lol awesome i love him.2010-03-04 20:46:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

My hammersack I did a year or two ago. DO - NOT - LIKE - SKINNING!

Awsome - you obviusly have more experience than I do and Luos - if these images are created by you, you are many years ahead of me.

My question still remains... now that I have skinned the biped, how do I now attach the eyes and zip assembly so that it sticks to the skin?

Without this info, I'm stuck.

And Luos_desruc - I have the tutorials and no, it doesn't make it clear. The tut assumes you have a ready made mesh - It does say don't worry about eyes yet - well get to it later... but it never does! Very frustrating.

I'm tempted to to do the UV mapping next but not sure before getting the model absolutely right.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Rhy		2010-03-04 22:06:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

Give him a machine gun and I'll worship you.

That's amazing .

Maybe even buy this and make him ride in it XD

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.exchange3d.com/cubecart/images/uploads/aff1202/m1025d_images//m1025d_01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.exchange3d.com/cubecart/military-and-weapons/m1025-hmmwv-desert-humvee--3d-model/prod_13542.html&usg=__rPEA1_E1STtSFJwaBbZTY2iQwmc=&h=300&w=400&sz=32&hl=en&start=3&itbs=1&tbnid=ODYmecds-I0grM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=124&prev=/images%3Fq%3D3d%2Bhumvee%2B3d%2Bstudio%2Bmax%26hl% 3Den%26sa%3DX%26gbv%3D2%26tbs%3Disch:1		2010-03-04 22:36:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

You link the eyes to the headbone. Check my deviantart account and my other images. Some of the stuff in the costumes like magazines etc are linked directly to the different bones. Some clothing I skin down to the pixel.2010-03-04 22:57:00

Author:
BasketSnake
Posts: 2391

I really like skinning,
too bad i dont have 3dsmax anymore.
there are so many easy tools for skinning, you could be done in 20 minutes.
i think it was called spline mapping:

http://download.autodesk.com/us/3dsmax/2009demos/05%20Mapping.mov		2010-03-05 12:00:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

Thanks Basket and Luos - will be attemting this this evening.

________

EDIT
____________

OK - managed to get the eyes and zip to stick to the skin OK and now onto yet another tricky bit - UV unwrapping!!!

OMG why is this so difficult?????

As you can see from the image below, I have decided to use PELT mapping (for the uninitiated among you, this is taking off MrSackboys Skin and strecthing it onto a flat surface - gruesome!

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/Untitled-1-9.jpg

If its a complex shape, you split off each section into something that can be flattened.

like his head....

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/Untitled-2.jpg

But, as you can see (or can't see) from this image, the map isn't unfolding well....

Back to the drawing board..

BUT - it is getting closer and closer....

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/gdg.jpg

Rhy		2010-03-05 20:52:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

He looks weird! Like he's ceramic!

If I had known you were peeling the poor little sackboy's skin off I woud have marched right in and switched your lap top off!

Icey		2010-03-07 10:27:00

Author:
IceMaiden
Posts: 1057

He looks weird! Like he's ceramic!

If I had known you were peeling the poor little sackboy's skin off I woud have marched right in and switched your lap top off!

Icey

You tell him Icey!! Send him to bed without dinner!! 		2010-03-07 14:22:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

I can't do uwv unwrapping. I use the skin coordination modifiers and make it look as good as possible.2010-03-07 19:10:00

Author:
BasketSnake
Posts: 2391

Lol looks extermely hard keep up the good work Rhy.2010-03-07 20:11:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

Oooook! Wave back to my little Sackdude!

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j120/richergraphics/Sackboy_Render1.png

Dropped the Pelt mapping as it was just too tricky and went for a tile coverage instead - took me ages to get the tile right. Trouble is the head stitches are right but the body stitches are too small and the bump map isn't working properly.

Have to figure that out another day.... when I give him a tongue.. and then work on morphs for the head.. somehow!

Hope you like him..

Rhy		2010-03-07 22:56:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

He is great Rhy, your knitting is marvellous!
I love him and am waving back to him as I type!		2010-03-07 22:58:00

Author:
mrsvista
Posts: 755

Awesome! Pretty sad that your pretty much done, I was enjoying watching this progress throughout its many stages :32010-03-08 01:26:00

Author:
Testudini
Posts: 3262

hehe hes chubby :32010-03-08 01:53:00

Author:
Littlebigdude805
Posts: 1924

If i still had 3dsmax, id pelt map it for you.
with pelt mapping you need to add lines, you cut up the model in pieces with these lines, and each surface between lines can be pelt mapped.
you do not pelt map a whole object at once.		2010-03-08 12:43:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

This is awesome Rhy you've done it again you've made yourself look like the best artist out of all of us i love him, lol saying when i get him a tounge sounds a bit disturbing lol. But great work on the Tiles well done.2010-03-08 12:57:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

If i still had 3dsmax, id pelt map it for you.
with pelt mapping you need to add lines, you cut up the model in pieces with these lines, and each surface between lines can be pelt mapped.
you do not pelt map a whole object at once.

TY for the thought Luos

If you look at my images closely, you'll see the pelt lines in blue. The arms work OK, as does the body and legs but the head is giving me problems because of the mouth.

I'm also finding it tricki because when you render the UV pelt, how do you apply a custom image back to that pelt map? The wizard just uses a small box in the centre....

Wish someone here still had 3DSMax...


This is awesome Rhy you've done it again you've made yourself look like the best artist out of all of us i love him, lol saying when i get him a tounge sounds a bit disturbing lol. But great work on the Tiles well done.

lbpholic, thank you for your kind words, but I nowhere near the best artist here. I just like to learn new stuff and see what it can do. 3DSMax was one of the last packages I still don't really understand.

I'll post again when I've got somewhere...

Rhy		2010-03-09 22:00:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

The sackboy is absolutely amazing!2010-03-15 00:27:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

*i was thinking that too*

@WESFUN: do you have a picture? No pic no truth.

it was done at school man i forgot about this thread
ill get the file and send it to you		2010-03-15 03:36:00

Author:
WESFUN
Posts: 1336

Wish someone here still had 3DSMax...I might reinstall 3dsmax in a few weeks, just to fiddle around with peltmapping.
*still waiting till my brother removes his 32gb of pr0n to clean up my hard drives*		2010-03-16 19:51:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

I have to admit, I'm still struggling with this pelt thing. I can do the seams, but it the stretching and, more importantly, the creation of a template.

I can do the texture once I have a template flat Map, but then I can't figure how to apply it back to the model again.

If you want, I could host the file on my website.

Rhy		2010-03-16 23:11:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

dont worry, will take me a few weeks at least..
Still need to find my original copy of max and photoshop.

Also it has been about 2 years or so since I last did some 3dsmaxxing,
but uvw unwrap should help a lot.

*cries because he realised he lost all of his 3dsmax user scripts*		2010-03-16 23:37:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

Just stumbled upon this thread... good job. It's been a while since I played around with 3dS or Maya... but I remember having to do the whole unwrap UV mapping deal. Maybe you've already got this whole thing figured out already, but if not... this vid is pretty in depth and informative.

UV Unwrapping Tutorial (http://www.wonderhowto.com/how-to-unwrap-uvs-organic-modeling-3ds-max-8-196433/)		2010-03-17 00:46:00

Author:
cdubb024
Posts: 247

Thanks for this link - going through part B now....2010-03-17 23:25:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606


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