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Vehicle tools: Tilt and motion sensor and control pod (Copyable)

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Vehicle tools: Tilt and motion sensor and control pod (Copyable)Sehven
Some of the tools that I routinely use when making my mechs as well as a few that I threw together just for this tutorial.
First there's the tilt sensor: uses a frictionless pink floaty circle to give accurate readout of the angle the vehicle has tilted to. Useful for anything that has balance problems (almost every vehicle out there). Can be hooked to rockets or other devices to push the vehicle back into an upright position, or to dark matter emitters to keep the vehicle from tilting past a certain angle.

[Edit 4/13] Just wanted to point out that advances have been made in the tilt sensor since the first post. A circle of gas makes a nearly perfectly accurate tilt sensor (thanks, oLMCo) whereas the pink floaty was only semi-accurate and it would tend to lose accuracy over time. In the level, there's a thin-layer gas wheel that can be used for making perfect, waterproof tilt sensors.

Next, a slight variation on the tilt sensor: a tilt relay. Useful for keeping one part of an object (such as the driver seat or a weapon) level regardless of the tilt of the rest of the object/vehicle.

Motion sensor: emits a dark matter mag key and has mag switches surrounding it. Useful for making a vehicle that can identify its direction(s) of movement. Want your flying vehicle to fire rockets to slow down when it's falling? You can configure the motion sensor to react to certain speeds of downward motion and hook it to a rocket(s). By increasing the lifetime of the emitted dark matter, you can make the sensor react to slower speeds; by decreasing the lifetime and moving the mag switches further out, you can make the sensor react to higher speeds.

Control pod: sackboy stands in a narrow control area with walls in front of/behind him and a wheel underneath him. Run to the right and the vehicle moves to the right. Run to the left and it moves left. Leaves you free to put in a grab switch for a seperate function such as operating a weapon or a car horn. Useful for all those people (me) who HATE running around from grab switch to grab switch to operate a vehicle.

[Edit 10/3/10] Just updated with a new control pod based on the one I built for my monocycle (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=33647-Monocycle). It's pretty much the same as the ones I've had in there for a while, except that it doesn't kill ThecX-men. I made it all glass (actually, most of it is wood that's been material glitched to look like glass) so that it will be invisible if you put it inside a vehicle cockpit with windows. Feel free to cut the corners off the backplate to make it fit in smaller spaces, but you won't want to cut into the wheel at all and you won't want to glue anything into the thin layer behind it--that's where the thin gas wheels are and if they get glued, they'll break everything. Also, if you put any thin layer materials directly behind it, the mag switches that drive the whole thing will jump from one material to another when you capture it, so avoid using that thin layer at all if you can. It has a grab switch and a jump switch built into it as well (so you can map R1 to a function and you can map X to another function. It works pretty well inside vehicles, but you'll need to let the player enter through the layer in front of it, and you'll need to close them in to keep them from falling out. Also, it works pretty well even when it tilts, but it can only handle <45 degrees or so before sackboy can't make the wheel spin any more.

Also briefly shows a cornerstone/zero strength piston leveler: keeps a vehicle of other object completely level, but can be tricky to set up and easy to break, especially for vehicles that need to be able to cover a large area.

[Edit 4/13] Gevurah has given a wonderful explanation on a much better (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=24072-Floaty-Rail-Stability-System-%28for-mechs-ships-sharks-bombs-whatever!%29) cornerstone rail system.

All of the devices are demonstrated in the level and explanations of many are given. I've used glass in a few places to let you see through to the parts that make it work. The level is copyable so you should be able to dissect any of the tools that aren't adequately explained to see how they work. At the end, you can drive a modified version of my 4wd buggy with independent wheel suspension that includes the control pod and a tilt sensor/rocket to push it back upright when it falls over. Incidently, my mechs: "Sehven's Mech VT-04b: Dire Wolf" and "The Most Advanced blah blah... Lightning" use control pods similar to the ones showcased in this level to control its forward/backward walking, shooting (uses an auto-tracking turret) and jumping, and a separate seat and control pod to operate a side-mounted turret. Both are given as prizes in their respective levels.		2010-02-03 07:23:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

I'll look for it when i get on LBP again

As a side note on your mech, the only problem i found with it was that it was hard to get it to realize that i was trying to make it move at times...		2010-02-03 09:46:00

Author:
RCIX
Posts: 250

Hey Sehven,

Since I'm at work and away from LBP right now, I was curious how you managed to implement your tilt sensor. In my experience trying to build gyrostabilizers, using a pink floaty circle essentially acts like the bubble in a spirit (bubble) level. I then experimented with using speed mag switches to give readouts on this. The system works ok until you apply large forces to your vehicle/aircraft/whatever, in which case inertia overpowers the floating, rendering the sensor useless.

Naturally, trying to hook this up to rockets to keep an aircraft plumb works as long as the tilt of the aircraft isn't too strong. If the tilt is too great, then the aircraft starts to move too quickly and the floaty falls victim to inertia.		2010-02-03 17:23:00

Author:
Thegide
Posts: 1465

It's true that the floaty can get messed up in a fast moving aircraft. It works better on slower moving vehicles (works perfectly on my mechs and initial tests on a car seem positive). I've given some thought to making an auto-calibrating tilt sensor, but I'm not sure if it would really work. The idea is that it would have holes in it (the calibrator would only need one hole, but you have to keep the thing balanced so there'd be holes spaced symmetrically) and emit a weight into the hole to re-center it. Obviously, this would need to be accomplished when the vehicle isn't moving (the motion sensor could tell it when to fire). The problems with this idea are that the vehicle would have to stop periodically and if the vehicle were to start moving again during calibration, it would throw the sensor off worse than it already was.

Another possibility would be to destroy the sensor and emit a new one, but I can't think of an accurate way of doing that: if you had a way of keeping the emitter level, then you wouldn't need to recalibrate the sensor. It seems that the only possibility would be to make the vehicle come to a complete stop in an upright position and then calibrate the sensor... but that's not fun in a vehicle level. So yeah, it's pretty much only useful for slower vehicles such as mechs and slow aircraft. I slapped one on a plane I got from TSFRJ which isn't superfast and it works pretty well, though I never did stay airborne for a particularly long time since I was trying to do stunts the plane was never designed for.

Also, the tilt sensor HATES water.

I'm not sure what you mean about inertia: you mean when it gets spinning fast enough, then even if the vehicle stops, the sensor keeps spinning. I suppose that could be what's throwing it off. I'll have to experiment with reducing the mass of the sensor (think bicycle wheel with spokes) and see if that helps.		2010-02-03 18:37:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

Well, that's why I was asking about your implementation. My designs never had a spinning component. What worked well was tethering a piece of pink floaty to the floor of an open space via some form of connector (rod, string). On other side of the floaty were speed mag switches that respond to a mag key on the floaty. If the vehicle tilts, the floaty ends up closer to the switch on the raised side, which then drove a counterbalance.

Think like tying a balloon to the antenna of a car. Whether flat or on a hill, the balloon still points straight up. If the car is pointed uphill, the balloon is closer to the front bumper. If downhill, the back bumper.

But when lateral forces are applied, the system falls apart. The rest of the above analogy would be to then try driving the car down the street... obviously the balloon isn't pointing straight up, but flying horizontally behind the car. The car's inertia overpowers the float of the balloon.

I think you have a more elegant solution (I'm trying to envision this in my head). Rather than tether the floaty via a connector that is susceptible to applied forces, build a circular shape, attached at its center via a bolt to the vehicle. Embedded in the circular shape is a wedge that is floaty.

Because the sensor is anchored by its center, rather than its edge, lateral forces should have no effect on whether the floaty points to the sky or not. Obviously there are some other variables that preclude this ideal scenario, but it should work a hell of a lot better than mine.		2010-02-03 18:56:00

Author:
Thegide
Posts: 1465

It's actually a complete circle of pink floaty bolted in the center. Since a zero strength bolt is, as far as the game engine is concerned, completely frictionless, none of the tilting forces from the vehicle affect the sensor. Also, since it's completely balanced, and the game doesn't seem to have a system for calculating any sort of wind resistance, drag isn't an issue either. I've heard of people trying weighted circles, but then the inertia of the weight makes it go crazy when the vehicle starts moving. What I haven't tried is weighted materials that are symmetrical: a circle of metal or wood for example. Even if they don't work worse than the floaty, I seriously doubt they'd work any better.

I wonder if a circle of pink floaty with a small circle of peach floaty near the top and an equal sized circle of cardboard or poly at the bottom would maintain balance. Since the weight of peach floaty is exactly opposite that of cardboard and poly, one would think their inertia would be identical so they'd balance each other out when lateral forces are applied. And in the event it does get messed up, the peach and cardboard should be able to right it the next time it slows down. I'll have to do some experiments to see if this idea works.

[EDIT] Did some quick experiments. The one with the spokes was far less reliable than the standard full circle of floaty. No idea why. I used the grids to make sure everything was perfectly balanced and I used four spokes, evenly spaced which divided the circle into perfect quadrants. I suppose if the floaty's inertia is what's keeping it level, reducing that inertia also reduces its ability to stay level.

The one with the weight/anti-weight fared better than the spokes, but it still wasn't accurate. Once it would start spinning, the inertia of the cardboard and peach floaty would carry the spin further than it should've gone: if the vehicle tilted forward, the sensor, rather than remain upright would actually tilt back. It does right itself when the vehicle calms down but any readings it gives would be unreliable. You could use it for something that doesn't require precision: a vehicle that counteracts tilt if it's roughly anywhere between 60 and 120 degrees, but I doubt it'd be much use for flying vehicles with tricky balance. By making the weights smaller, you could probably reduce the overspin, but you'd also reduce its ability to right itself when it slows down.		2010-02-03 19:28:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

I wonder if a circle of pink floaty with a small circle of peach floaty near the top and an equal sized circle of cardboard or poly at the bottom would maintain balance. Since the weight of peach floaty is exactly opposite that of cardboard and poly, one would think their inertia would be identical so they'd balance each other out when lateral forces are applied. And in the event it does get messed up, the peach and cardboard should be able to right it the next time it slows down. I'll have to do some experiments to see if this idea works.

This is precisely what I had in mind. It should be immutable to lateral forces, but still do its job pointing up. The problem with not having some sort of gravity-dependent mechanism is that jarring collisions could potentially disrupt your sensor calibration. This system would have a way of self-correcting.

When you say that cardbaord and floaty balance each other, is this perfect? As in if you glue identical sized squares of each your object behaves like peach floaty?		2010-02-03 19:55:00

Author:
Thegide
Posts: 1465

Great stuff! I've actually been using these for quite some time now, especially the control system (though I call it my C.S.I. - custom sack interface), very useful for creating a direct link from analog stick to vehicle. I'll post a video of my best example over the weekend.2010-02-03 20:17:00

Author:
croissantbuncake
Posts: 572

Ok just did some quick experimentation. Cardboard does indeed balance out peach floaty, but it's heavier density does not make it immune from inertia. In other words, it will start swinging on its own.

Making the lower half out of pink floaty however seems to work quite well... from my initial observations it outperforms the solid peach circle because it automatically recalibrates. Unlike the cardboard, pink floaty has zero mass and so the swinging effect disappears.

I'll have to test more to be sure. Either way, this is a great, nearly invisible way to stabilize rocket-based airships. Thanks a bunch for the final puzzle piece.		2010-02-03 21:03:00

Author:
Thegide
Posts: 1465

I figured it's all out there and being used, but it doesn't seem to be common knowledge and I hadn't seen any tutorials (althought I never really look for tutorials, so I guess I wouldn't know) so I thought I'd put it together to help out people who haven't heard of this stuff before.

@Thegide: Yes, if you glue equal sized pieces of peach floaty and cardboard, it'll hover in place. I forget who initially coined the term "little big pound," but cardboard and polysteyrene each weigh one little big point per small grid square in the thick layer (thin layer is 1/5 the weight of thick), pink floaty is zero (obviously), peach is -1, sponge is 2, glass, rubber and wood are 5, metal and stone are 10.

I edited my previous post before you replied. Did you see the results of my experiment?

[EDIT] Woops, missed your reply. Are you saying that you can make a better tilt sensor if the top half is peach and the bottom is pink? I'll have to try that.

[EDIT #2] Holy crap! It works perfectly! I would've thought that peach floaty would have more inertia than pink so it would drag when you got moving fast, but it doesn't. It's even more accurate than the pink circle and it doesn't get messed up by jarring impacts. Off to update my tutorial (you'll be mentioned of course).

Ok, it's updated. I've been trying to work out the flaw in the tilt sensors (that they can't handle fast speeds) and you've found the perfect solution. So.... thanks a bunch for the final puzzle piece.		2010-02-03 21:38:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

[EDIT #2] Holy crap! It works perfectly! I would've thought that peach floaty would have more inertia than pink so it would drag when you got moving fast, but it doesn't. It's even more accurate than the pink circle and it doesn't get messed up by jarring impacts. Off to update my tutorial (you'll be mentioned of course).

Ok, it's updated. I've been trying to work out the flaw in the tilt sensors (that they can't handle fast speeds) and you've found the perfect solution. So.... thanks a bunch for the final puzzle piece.

Glad I could help! I guess inertia is only applied to those materials with densities heavier than air. I'll be interested in hearing how your continued experimentation with this system works out. Like I said, I had been bugged by this problem for ages... I never even bothered to think about using bolts.		2010-02-04 00:06:00

Author:
Thegide
Posts: 1465

First there's the tilt sensor: uses a frictionless pink floaty circle to give accurate readout of the angle the vehicle has tilted to. Useful for anything that has balance problems (almost every vehicle out there). Can be hooked to rockets or other devices to push the vehicle back into an upright position, or to dark matter emitters to keep the vehicle from tilting past a certain angle.

My god I had a facepalm moment when I saw this. I only briefly forayed into the world of vehicle making in LBP waaay back when I was a sackling and I tried to come up with a device to do this, and failed miserably. This is such a simple, elegant and above all obvious (with hindsight of course), soultion. Great work!		2010-02-04 00:39:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Nice level and cool car. Didn't understand much, but hope people will notice this and implement it - new gameplay opportunities await!2010-02-04 00:55:00

Author:
Tanuki75
Posts: 172

Thanks for the positive feedback everybody. I wish I could take credit for all of this, but the only thing I worked out on my own was the motion sensor. I learned about the floaty tilt sensor from Asmadon almost a year ago. He invented it for his mech that he was working on at the time. I can't remember where I got the control pod from: I saw the idea in somebody's level somewhere.

Like I said, all of this stuff is already out there. It just seemed like it wasn't especially common knowledge so I thought I'd post it all where people can learn from it. That whole community thing. And you can already see the results: Thegide figured out how to fix the flaw, so now we can have a perfect tilt sensor, less that 24 hours after I published it. The whole community thing is awesome.		2010-02-04 02:34:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

Asmadon and I used to talk quite a bit about mechs, but at the time we were both more concerned about quad designs. I'm surprised this never came up in conversation... hah. Yeah the community thing is great. Sometimes all it takes is someone else looking at a problem and new ideas suddenly start to emerge.

I guess I'll have to resume my foray into biped tech after all. I finally saw Johnee's mech the other day and was pretty impressed, but I'm guessing it's on rails? With all the separate loose pieces and no strange behavior with his multitude of connectors I don't see how it would run so smoothly, let alone at all, without rails. Still, it would be awesome if this simple little device solved all our balance problems.		2010-02-04 09:10:00

Author:
Thegide
Posts: 1465

Regarding johnee's larger mech, I think that is on rails, however, the power armour (or at least the his alternative one) uses emitted dark matter in the feet.
As for how I came across these orignally, I also saw the stabiliser in asmadon's mech, as for the method of standing sackboy on a wheel, I saw that in a Japanese level, where in fact the 3 way switch was actually within the wheel (don't use that method, highly prone to breaking the 3 way).

Two quick tips to finish:

- If you want the control system to be fullly enclosed, the smallest space above the wheel that sackboy fits into is a 2x2 small grid square void. Otherwise he will be crushed should the vehicle flip.

- If you want to create pink floaty without using the actual material, place a piece of peach golfball thick material in front of an equal sized piece of cardboard material, and glue. The two will cancel eachother out resulting in a weightless material.		2010-02-04 09:41:00

Author:
croissantbuncake
Posts: 572

Sorry to poke my head in here, but i did as you suggested (with pink floaty and not peach) on a flying machine and the problem was that it suffered from overcompensation: it would start going to the right then the rocket would fire and overcompensate, sending it into a never ending spiral of swerving (if you get what i mean). What other systems do i need to get something going straight up?2010-02-04 10:13:00

Author:
RCIX
Posts: 250

This sounds really interesting i can't wait to see how they work, making mechs has always been my bad point i can never make any chracters or vehichles lol, but anyway can't wait to see this.2010-02-04 10:47:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

Sorry to poke my head in here, but i did as you suggested (with pink floaty and not peach) on a flying machine and the problem was that it suffered from overcompensation: it would start going to the right then the rocket would fire and overcompensate, sending it into a never ending spiral of swerving (if you get what i mean). What other systems do i need to get something going straight up?

It's a delicate balance of mag switch settings and rocket thrust power. The gyro does it's job correctly, but you need to tweak the mag settings to be less sensitive/responsive. Otherwise, yes they will compensate all too much and throw off your balance too much. Using larger radii on your mag switch and a bigger gyro wheel should allow the system to function more smoothly. It's a system driven by feedback, after all. You are using your mag switches set to speed, are you not?

I strapped together a system consisting of a rectangular box of cardboard, with a rocket at either end and a 2x2 (small grid) gyro in the middle. It did drift somewhat and had light swerving, but altogether was far more stable than anything I've built to date. For things that are not perfectly symmetrical, you'll need to tweak a lot I think.

I was thinking too, instead of having the mag key at the top of the wheel, place it at the bottom. Placing it at the top requires the mag switches driving the rockets to be set to inverse, and the gyro acts as a method for achieving balance by reducing power output on one side. Placing it at the bottom allows the mag switches to be set to normal and balance is achieved by increasing power instead.

This is necessary if you want to introduce a system for sackboy to control propulsion. An on/off grab switch can be introduced into the circuit so that when off, the speed setting is zero, and when on, the speed setting is set by the stabilizer.		2010-02-04 15:09:00

Author:
Thegide
Posts: 1465

This is what I used in the "OMG Its a robot revolution" to keep the helicopter balanced. Its brilliant for balance.2010-02-04 15:44:00

Author:
wexfordian
Posts: 1904

That level was cool. I didn't realize your helicopter used a balancer at the time. It just felt like it was balanced well enough to stay upright. I guess that's a credit to how well it works: it was transparent. I'll have to play it again and see if I can tell it's there this time.

As for where you put the mag key, you could put it pretty much anywhere on the gyro that you want. You just have to arrange the mag switches accordingly. Tweaking rockets so that they don't overcompensate is tricky but it is possible.		2010-02-04 16:12:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

Wow, this was helpfull. Had the same idea with the tilt sensor but it always got crappy after a while of quick movement. Now with pink floaty it works perfectly. Thanks a lot!2010-02-04 16:51:00

Author:
Vanemiera
Posts: 329

Regarding johnee's larger mech, I think that is on rails, however, the power armour (or at least the his alternative one) uses emitted dark matter in the feet.

Are you sure? Even when I broke the feet, the power armor would jump exactly the same height and distance and stay level the whole time. I'm pretty sure it used rails too.


If you want to create pink floaty without using the actual material, place a piece of peach golfball thick material in front of an equal sized piece of cardboard material, and glue. The two will cancel eachother out resulting in a weightless material.

That would probably work, but what would be the advantage? Also, if you cut out some of the cardboard in the top to put in some peach floaty, you'd get the overcompensating thing happening since cardboard seems to have more inertia than floaty.

If you don't like the look of pink or peach floaty, I've got a level published with a selection of glitched materials. I've got about 2/3 or the pre-mgs materials glitched into dissolve and peach and pink floaty, so you could make a tilt sensor that looks like any material you want.

I didn't really point it out in the level, but most of the tilt sensors you see there are theck, and the dark matter they emit for the motion sensor is thack, so the whole thing only takes up one thick layer (and a thin layer if you use the backplate that it's attached to). It's the kind of thing you really want to just custom build for each vehicle, though: that way you can put it in a layer that isn't being used by the vehicle and do the same for the dark matter emitter.		2010-02-05 05:27:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

It's a delicate balance of mag switch settings and rocket thrust power. The gyro does it's job correctly, but you need to tweak the mag settings to be less sensitive/responsive. Otherwise, yes they will compensate all too much and throw off your balance too much. Using larger radii on your mag switch and a bigger gyro wheel should allow the system to function more smoothly. It's a system driven by feedback, after all. You are using your mag switches set to speed, are you not?

I strapped together a system consisting of a rectangular box of cardboard, with a rocket at either end and a 2x2 (small grid) gyro in the middle. It did drift somewhat and had light swerving, but altogether was far more stable than anything I've built to date. For things that are not perfectly symmetrical, you'll need to tweak a lot I think.

I was thinking too, instead of having the mag key at the top of the wheel, place it at the bottom. Placing it at the top requires the mag switches driving the rockets to be set to inverse, and the gyro acts as a method for achieving balance by reducing power output on one side. Placing it at the bottom allows the mag switches to be set to normal and balance is achieved by increasing power instead.

This is necessary if you want to introduce a system for sackboy to control propulsion. An on/off grab switch can be introduced into the circuit so that when off, the speed setting is zero, and when on, the speed setting is set by the stabilizer.

I did all that, though i probably need to tweak more. Thanks for the advice!		2010-02-05 06:53:00

Author:
RCIX
Posts: 250

Any luck with that RCIX?

Over in the help section, Lady_Wulf pointed out that my control pod sticks. I had noticed the sticking when it was sitting on the ground, but didn't worry about it because it was meant for vehicles and the motion in the vehicles seemed to jostle it enough to keep it from sticking. I'll take a look at it later and see if I can fix it and then post back. In the meantime, if anybody has an idea for making it more accurate, feel free to offer suggestions.

[EDIT] Well, I think I got the sticking fixed in on the control pod. I tightened the spring bolt a bit and moved the pointer a smidge further from the gear. All of my tests were positive: no sticking. I didn't bother applying it to the buggy, though, 'cuz that thing was a pain to set up and I wasn't about to tear it apart for such a minor tweak. It wasn't built with the control pod in mind and I had to shoehorn it in.		2010-02-08 21:11:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

oLMCo just showed me how to make an even better tilt sensor. This one remains perfectly upright no matter what you do, so it doesn't need any corrective measures. Just make a circle of any material, bolt it in the center and turn it to gas. The drag that affects solid materials in lbp doesn't affect gas at all, so it will never lose its calibration (unless you select it in create mode and rotate it: obviously it'll turn then).

I did a few quick tests: I made a block of grabbable material, slapped my best self-righting tilt sensor (thanks again, TheGide) on it, and slapped a gas wheel on it as well. Used a jetpack to carry it around and just went crazy with it. The gas wheel stayed perfectly upright the whole time. PERFECTLY UPRIGHT! The floaty wheel did pretty good in these tests, but not good enough: even at its best, it still wobbled a little bit, and at its worst, it would go off as much as 20 degrees. The peach floaty would put it back upright, but with a 1-2 degree variance. The gas wheel has a 0 degree variance.

So yeah, thanks to oLMCo, it's now possible to make a perfect tilt sensor. I'll update the level with this information in a little while.		2010-03-16 03:15:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

That's a very interesting discovery, it could open up the door for some interesting tilt-related mechanisms. Thanks oLMCo and Sehven for sharing this! 2010-03-16 04:19:00

Author:
Gilgamesh
Posts: 2536

Aha... you query about making thin gas makes sense now! 2010-03-16 05:36:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

it's now possible to make a perfect tilt sensor.
that also works, un-phased, underwater		2010-03-16 05:46:00

Author:
IStwisted
Posts: 428

I have made beta version of control pod using rtm223 wheeley good switch techniques. I have published small showcase for it named "controller pod" If like check it.2010-03-18 07:21:00

Author:
waD_Delma
Posts: 282

Yup, with thin layer gas, you can make tilt sensors that are completely invisible and silent. That's not all, though. I mentioned it over in the help thread, but thin layer gas has really opened the doors on a lot of stuff I can do. I'm using it to make invisible logic on moving objects (rather than trying to squeeze all the logic components in a tiny space inside or making an external logic center) and it can be used to make invisible walls that keep sackboy from changing layers but leave all other objects in the game unaffected.

I loved rtm's wheeley good switches. They solved a problem I had racked my brain over quite a bit: building logic with a speed relay. Unfortunately, the concept doesn't work as well if you shrink it down to a tiny, sackboy-can-run-on-top-of-it size. Or, it didn't work as well for me: when the pod tilts enough, sackboy can make the wheel spin really fast (not sure why) which would cause the mag key to be able to skip past the switches. With the gear/pointer, speed doesn't matter: all but the slowest speeds translate into an on signal.		2010-03-18 13:46:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

I've just updated this level again. This time with four new control pods. They're all hamster wheel style. Two use the same notched wheel design as my first one (only you're inside the wheel) and the other two use a modified version of Rtm's wheeley good switches. Also, the two bigger ones include the jump switch I'm using in my newest mech: you trigger the switch by jumping. The wheeley ones actually sort of squash 4 layers into one thick layer: the wheel is thick on the outside, theck on the inside; the grab switch and walls are thack; and then there's two theck gas layers double bolted to each other and to the back thin layer. I'd love to tell you how I got two theck layers double bolted in the same layer, but the guy who taught me how to do it has sworn me to secrecy: he's concerned that if it gets out Mm will patch it.

They're not without flaws. The gear/flipper ones tend to cut out sometimes, and the wheeley ones have a bit of latency. The latency can be manipulated, though: setting the directional switches' radii bigger (closer to the radii of the speed switches) will make the switch kick on at lower speeds, reducing triggering latency, but increasing de-triggering latency: since it requires a lower speed to trigger, it's easier to get it going, but it has to come to a complete stop to de-trigger. Currently, for driving my mech, I'm using a more sensitive switch (triggers quick/de-triggers slow) so that it's easier to keep it moving uninterrupted, particularly when you jump, and I'm using a less sensitive one for the gunner seat so that when you stop running, the turret stops moving almost immediately: makes for more accurate aiming.

Here's a pic of the bigger gear/flipper one. I'd post a pic of the the wheeley good one, but since everything that makes it different is invisible, it wouldn't do much good.

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=14695		2010-04-04 05:46:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188

I've encountered a possible problem:

If I'm making a steerable vehicle and I want to use your stabilizer, how do I override feedback while it moves? I don't want the vehicle trying to stop itself and breaking.		2010-04-07 11:49:00

Author:
DoomedHero
Posts: 14

I used a control pad mech somewhere, I really liked that interface. Great to see LBP sackboy controls improving as much as the mechs are. 2010-04-07 12:03:00

Author:
midnight_heist
Posts: 2513

Edited original post: Finally got around to de-lethalizing the wheeley good control pods (actually it's just the advanced one--I deleted the simple one) for ThecX-men. The theck layer gas (thecX-men kryptonite) has been replaced by thin layer gas. To recap, it works off the same principle as Rtm's wheeley good switches (he had a few: this is the one that allows for bi-directional control), but it's compressed down to one thick and one thin layer through lots of glitchy magic (there are two thin gas wheels double bolted to each other but they're in the same layer and then the backplate is theck with a thack wheel and jump switch. The plunger (small sponge-glass square above sackboy) pushes sackboy down to help him keep his footing during bumpy rides, and it acts as the jump switch as well (sackboy jumps to push it up, triggering the yellow mag switch which can be mapped to whatever function you want--in my mech, it's mapped to the jump function). Since it's sponge, it can take grab switches too, allowing R1 to be mapped to whatever function(s) you want, so you end up with a control pod that can output left/right,X (one-shot), and R1 signals.

As I said in the OP (the bold part I just edited in), the whole thing looks like glass so that if you stick it behind a window, it becomes invisible and you'll just see sackboy standing in the cockpit. If you want, you can cut the corners off the theck backplate to make it fit into whatever space you're using, and you can material change any parts without problems, though I would leave the holder (the part that goes around sackboy to keep him in place) glass to avoid friction with the plunger, wheel, and sackboy). It should be fairly multi-purpose, though I suppose it won't necessarily fit in every situation (please, no requests for specially tailored versions--these things are a huge pain to assemble). I'll try to get around to making a smaller one sans jump switch soon.		2010-10-03 09:25:00

Author:
Sehven
Posts: 2188


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