Archive: 19 posts

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[EDIT: Check out the following replies for a bit of a warning on some of the negative consequences that can occur when trying to maximize your thermo. I have not experienced these myself, which is why I had not mentioned them in my post, but they would be good to consider. I think that the best thing that you could do is to make sure to make extra copies of your level before trying a trick to maximize the thermo.] I wanted to add this thread about finding a bit more thermo to build with if you have seemingly maxed out your level. I realized something interesting when I was making "Lost at Sea", and that is that just because the game tells you that you can't add something, that doesn't mean that you can't actually add it. My thermo "Maxed Out" before I had added the music into my level. By "Maxed Out" I mean that when I put the music boxes in, it would make the "duh-duh" sound that signifies that you cannot add anything. I thought that it was very annoying because it seems that when you add any object, the thermo shoots up a lot, and then falls back down to where it should be. The problem is that when you are in that final notch of thermo, if you add just about anything like a switch or sound object then that extra thermo jump before it falls will cause it max out even though there is room. Well, I had trouble with it on "Now and Then", and for some reason, after spending maybe 30 minutes to an hour in the level trying to figure out what to do, all of a sudden I just had a bit more thermo left to do what I needed. I tried messing around with "Lost at Sea", because obviously I needed music in the level, but I never got the thermo back. Finally I got fed up and just started tapping "x" to put the music box out and on my third press it put it out even though the first 2 times it made the "duh-duh" sound. I actually managed to put out 3 more music boxes and maybe 5 or 6 more switches using this method!!! This helped me to actually get the thermo to reach the top. I don't think that many people are doing this because I was checking file sizes of levels I downloaded (you have to look at this on your "Downloaded Levels" on your moon, not on the community moon, because on the community moon they all look the same size), and my levels were both a lot larger than any others, which surprised me since a lot of people said they maxed out their levels. I think there is a bit of magical thermo there that is not be harnessed by most people.

2010-01-21 23:58:00 Author: amazingflyingpoo Posts: 1515

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A word of warning, when I did this on my Woesme Kingdom level a little while ago I suddenly found that I had inadvertently corrupted my level. Now, it could have corrupted for other unrelated reasons that I simply don't know about as this was just one instance, but it is something to take into consideration. (And for the record I had backups of my level, so I didn't really lose anything except the few updates I had just made)

2010-01-22 03:37:00 Author: SirPaper Posts: 150

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Hmmm... interesting. Has anyone else run into this issue? And also, if this thread should be combined with another one about general LBP PSP issues, please feel free to move it to wherever it goes

2010-01-22 08:05:00 Author: amazingflyingpoo Posts: 1515

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Yes this is something you must be careful with. The thermo isn't there to limit you as a creator, it is literally the point that if you go over it, the game will struggle to run it and things may not work exactly as they should. There's lots of different ways to trick the thermo (emitting emitters with big objects in etc) but it can lead to other things in the level not working properly, so it's definitely something that creators should be wary of if they try it.

2010-01-22 13:52:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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Hmm... I can see how emitting emitters could be an be an issue, but I didn't think that just filling the thermo up was an issue. I'm in no way encouraging some kind of glitch. I just noticed that the game tends to not let you fill that last notch of thermo very easily, and that it actually will let you do it if you just tap x an extra time or two. I experienced no problems, so I didn't realize that something like that would cause a problem since I was still within the thermo limit. Either way, I'll add a bit of text into the OP to warn people to be careful about this. I just wanted to pass on the news, because I would have been unable to finish "Lost at Sea" without doing this, and I didn't experience anything bad for doing it. Thanks for the replies! [EDIT: I have gone to every thread I have ever made about this and added a big warning at the very top so it cannot be missed. I think that it is good that players know that they can do this, but I also think that it is very important that they are warned to be careful when they do it. Thanks so much to you two (Jack and SirPaper) for the info, because I did not realize that there could even be negative consequences since "Now and Then" and "Lost at Sea" seemed fine.]

2010-01-22 14:38:00 Author: amazingflyingpoo Posts: 1515

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I haven't actually experienced the maxed out thermo on the PSP yet so what I said is not directly related to this. From talking to Alex he said that everyone seems to view the thermo as some sort of limiter they put in place when that's just not the case. It's just that the game needs it in order to remain stable(ish) (This obviously being about the PS3 version but it still applies). Whether what you have proposed here would effect the stability I have no idea, I just thought the point above was quite relevant in regards to this thread

2010-01-22 14:54:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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Yes, I think you're right. The main worry here is stability during play, and you test for that. The chances of actually corrupting your save seem low (though I suppose it's not impossible an unstable create mode could corrupt).

2010-01-22 15:23:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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I expressed this once already, but I want to say it once more just because I'm afraid that the whole idea of my thread was starting to blur. I am NOT trying to give the player a way to keep putting stuff into the level once the thermo is maxed out (and by maxed out I mean that the thermo has passed the top hash mark and is moving into the curved top section of doom), I am just trying to overcome the irritating issue that for some reason it can be difficult to even use up the final bit of thermo between the top two hash marks. I have a difficult time believing that we are not supposed to be using that last section of thermo between the top two hash marks. The issue is that when you put out any kind of switch or sound object, the thermo will jump almost an entire hash mark, and then within a second it will fall back down to where it should be (which should be just a little higher than where it was since a sound object or switch shouldn't take up that much thermo). Once you get to the point where your thermo is between the top two hash marks, when you place a sound object or switch in the level, the huge initial jump will cause the level to think it is maxing out, and it will refuse to accept it, even though the object is really bringing you no where near actually pushing the limit. I hope that all of that makes sense. If you still don't understand the thermo jump that I am talking about, just try putting out a Magnetic Switch or Switch Key in a level, and watch the thermo jump and then come back down. It has always been the case for me in create, so I don't think that it is unique to my game. Either way, I just wanted to say all of that so you realize that I am by no way trying to cheat the thermometer, I am just trying to actually use that last bit. I completely understand what the thermometer is there for, and if I found a glitch to actually cheat that, then I would never share it because I imagine that it would make a level very unstable.

2010-01-22 15:57:00 Author: amazingflyingpoo Posts: 1515

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So what you're saying that we should all emit emitters with full levels in them and it'll be fine then, Poo? Good to know! Thanks!

2010-01-22 16:07:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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LOL, emit emitters with full levels in them. Yeah, exactly. You know that you have done exactly what I want you to do when every level on your moon says that it is corrupt [joke]

2010-01-22 16:15:00 Author: amazingflyingpoo Posts: 1515

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That's what happened on my metroid level 0.o the thermo went high out of nowhere I'm not sure what i did, but it brang it back down (not deleting anything)

2010-01-22 22:36:00 Author: Spark151 Posts: 801

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In Little Big Ski Resort, I maxed out the thermo with about 1/6 of the level left. I soon found out that by randomly deleting/adding corners repetativly the thermo will sometimes drop. In my case I lucked out and the thermo was cut in half. The only problem is that if you mess up while glitching to get more stuff in your level, then you will have to delete a lot of stuff just to get to the point of where the thermo is full. Anyways I think this is a glitch that should be explored more as too what specifically causes the thermo to drop (in my case I found it too be repetativly deleting/adding corners). I have also heard that just waiting for like an hour in create mode (not deleteing anything) can sometimes cause a drop in the thermo.

2010-01-23 00:52:00 Author: ducksrulz Posts: 7

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From what I've seen, weird thermometer movement usually means that my level is corrupt (and un-loadable) and/or my PSP is about to crash. If you see a large spike or drop in your thermo, I recommend not saving your level, because you will overwrite any recent work with a corrupted file. In the event of thermo oddness I typically just revert to a backup file and redo my recent work.

2010-01-23 05:25:00 Author: Taffey Posts: 3187

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Hmmm... maybe I've accidentally made it a habit of always building in unstable levels. I ALWAYS notice the thermo take these spikes when I put out switches or music objects, but there are other times when the thermo just does it's own thing where it will sometimes say the level is much emptier than I know it is (for instance, I will have it 80% full, and all of a sudden I notice that it says it is only 25% full). I have never had a corrupt save issue though... BTW, all of these different methods of reducing the thermo are very interesting (i.e.: deleting and adding corners to reduce thermo a lot). Do you think that sometimes the level re-fragments itself, and doing certain things encourages it to do that, but maybe sometimes when it does it it damages the level data? LOL, I may sound like a complete idiot saying that, but it just seems weird that doing something like deleting corners and adding them over and over again, placing extra switches out, or just sitting there for an hour would make the thermo go down (I have experienced the "waiting an hour" phenomenon, that is actually how I finished Now and Then. But I didn't actually just sit there waiting, I was messing around in the level, so maybe I deleted a corner or something and it caused it).

2010-01-23 05:47:00 Author: amazingflyingpoo Posts: 1515

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Hmmm... maybe I've accidentally made it a habit of always building in unstable levels. I ALWAYS notice the thermo take these spikes when I put out switches or music objectsNo, I think that's normal. I also always get thermo spikes whenever I place a switch or sound object, followed by an immediate decrease back down to where it should be. Just guesstimating, I'd say a "normal" spike is in the 5% to 10% range. but there are other times when the thermo just does it's own thing where it will sometimes say the level is much emptier than I know it is (for instance, I will have it 80% full, and all of a sudden I notice that it says it is only 25% full). I have never had a corrupt save issue though...This is exactly what I was referring to in my previous post - sorry, I wasn't too clear about it. It's the huge spikes and drops that are scary, and they usually seem to be related to pausing/unpausing and rewinding/fastforwarding. One other thing that I forgot to add that may help people is that I never max out the thermo on my initial build. I just leave out all the score bubbles and reserve a couple of tick marks at the top of the thermo at the very end. This allows me to place switches and sound objects easily even as a level is nearing completion, because it gives the thermo room to do its "spike" thing. Once I am happy with how a level is working, my very last step is to add score bubbles everywhere. They seem to take up a lot less thermo space than the PS3 version, so one or two tick marks goes quite a long way.

2010-01-23 16:57:00 Author: Taffey Posts: 3187

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"Do you think that sometimes the level re-fragments itself, and doing certain things encourages it to do that" This is very possible. I've also heard that copied objects don't use as much thermo, havn't really tested this though.

2010-01-23 16:58:00 Author: ducksrulz Posts: 7

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Your cheat didn't work for me, it won't let me place more objects no matter how much I try. I tried it after I already had to cut out a part of the level because of the thermo. Now I have to delete stickers and reduce the number of materials to get enough thermo space to place checkpoints, music, bubbles and even the goal!

2010-01-27 18:50:00 Author: Lleonard Pler Posts: 277

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Hmmm... sorry Lleonard, but thanks for the response. I was only going off of personal experience with a maxed out level, but I'm guessing that there are many factors that need to be taken into account. One difference may be that you had the thermo much higher than I did at the time. I was just beginning the second-to-last notch (I was between the last two notches on the thermometer), and the method that I mentioned allowed me to place sound objects and switches, which the game originally wouldn't let me add because of the spike that the thermo takes when these are added. Perhaps if the thermo is halfway up that last notch section, then the trick won't work. Do you remember how high the thermo was when you tried it?

2010-01-28 13:28:00 Author: amazingflyingpoo Posts: 1515

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The thermo was already at 100%, I'm afraid! That's why it didn't work, I guess. What I did was to remove some stickers and change a couple materials. I added everything that I needed, and then restored the stickers and the materials. And then when I loaded the level again, the thermo was at 110% and then it was impossible to change anything, but fortunately everything worked fine by then!

2010-01-28 15:00:00 Author: Lleonard Pler Posts: 277

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