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Deep Under the Snow by Team Italy (Miglioshin & Omegaslayer) [online!]

Archive: 50 posts

This is our entry for the OC contest

The level is available @Miglioshin

Genre: platformer - puzzler - boss battle

A mysterious research cannot continue because the satellite receiver is out of order and the base emergency auto-lock system has self activated, so you're sent to investigate the area...

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow.jpg


Find your way into the base!


http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow2.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow3.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow4.jpg


And then face a perilious journey after the secrets behind the research...


http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow5.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow6.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow12.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow13.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow15.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow17.jpg

http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow18.jpg


Team ITALY yeeeeeeee!


http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow10.jpg


Will you figure out what's (or who's) behind?
What or who has interrupted the research, and why is the base deserted?


We've also paid tribute to the amazing creator by the name of NinjamicWZ with a little section in Seminal Gemini's style (play Seminal Gemini, NOW)!


http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/DeepUndertheSnow9.jpg


I had troubles uploading a new album on my profile's page here on LBPC so, for anyone interested in it, you can find a lot more pictures (and spoilers) to the following album:

Deep Under the Snow photobucket album (http://s458.photobucket.com/albums/qq310/Miglioshin/LBP%20level%20Deep%20Under%20the%20Snow/)

And now, many thanks to all the people who have tested the level with us (they are so many that I'm afraid I will leave someone out and maybe I'll put in someone who hasn't tested) in no particular order:

Shenoa77, Camden1, Shadowheaven, Shadow80, Squirlin, coyote_blue, xQziCyFlaMeZxQz, princesean555, xDante95x... I guess they're all, I will add if someone tested the level invited by OmegaSlayer (or if I missed someone).

Have fun and SUPPORT US!		2010-01-17 15:37:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

First of all thanks to my friend, and newly crowned buddy Miglioshin!
Another time I had the amazing opportunity to work with one of the big guys of LBPC.
I'm very excited for the level, we've beaten the thermo badly, we've really hurt it
So, please go play it and enjoy it.
I aslo want to thanks all my friends here with which I had the wonderful time to collaborate with in Online Creation, you know who you are!		2010-01-17 15:56:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Wow this looks great! I'll definitely go check this out right nao! /runs to ps32010-01-17 16:09:00

Author:
iGotFancyPants
Posts: 1355

I tested the level with Miglioshin, and i'm leaving a feedback, probably i'll replay the level alone and add more things to my feedback:
The level is very very long, good variety, some great visuals and nice ideas, good boss fight and i liked the ambient changing, form Hi-Tech to Dark Cave.
The style of the level is visible from the beginning: gameplay and visuals based level, there isn't a background story (maybe a little story will be good, but is the same ).
The Hi Tech lab is very well made, very good materials/colors choice, with some little but great details (like the beam elevator).
Then, there is a little outside gameplay part, and then you enter in the cave, where the level is mainly based.
Obliviously, to make the level long and beat the thermo, Miglio and Omega chosen only 3-4 materials for the cave, but it's the best choice: they toke the best ones, and the cave is very cool.
The level is based on platforms and switches, used to open new zones in the cave. Fire, spikes, gas, there is all to kill the sackboy and to test player's skills.
There are some good puzzles too: really enjoyed the statue's one, ingenious and realistic in that ambient.
A really funny 2X zone, with the jetpack+paintinator combo, but i've already seen it in a coop level, i think it was a NinjaMICWZ's level.
This level really mix the style of this 2 excellent italian creator: much gameplay from Platform Madness, visuals similar to Cave Escape and Run For Your Freedom.
The final boss(es) were cool, but maybe it was better to make different attacks for each boss.
Incredible to see how the level worked well and how it was long. There were only some issues: in some zones there was a little hard to see well or to understand what to do, but maybe it was just me

A great level, Miglioshin and OmegaSlayer have to write a tutorial about "How to beat thermometer"
Hope you'll get many plays and hearts, you really deserve them!		2010-01-17 16:26:00

Author:
Dante95
Posts: 504

A-awesome! I'm still shocked! It's one of the best levels i have ever played.
Everything works so good, the difficulty is very nice and it's go******** long!
PERF-ECT!
I still don't understand how you managed to put all those things without overheating.
Awesome work, that's it. At the beginning it was a bit boring but then it becomes a blast!
5 Stars and hearted. I will surely replay it in the future.

F4F my Rise of the Undeath lvl if you can.
Bye.		2010-01-17 20:04:00

Author:
Flame Dragon
Posts: 312

Hiya guys,
Luos, Clarie and I played this through this evening and we were very impressed. The way you make one room hold so many passages, switches, doors and moving parts shows a lot of planning and a lot of creativity. When I first started I was thinking 'oh another snow level' but this is so much more than that - once you get past the initial buildings, this opens up an underground wonderland. I think you chose well to split up the 'switch searches' with paintinator sections, this stops the level getting too repetitive.

The most outstanding moment for us (without a doubt) was the 'god' holding the magnifying glasses. That puzzle was simply fantastic. I personally found the controls a bit hard to use but Luos was fine with it. The only thing I would say for improvement is that I was trying to get the 'left hand' on the top space above the head, but we eventually found it fitted bottom left. I don't know if it works in both but it was unclear.

I'm not normally a fan of plasma bosses - but I did like these. The reason was that the bosses shot in patterns and the shots are slow enough to avoid. I think this is definately a good thing as it then becomes a game of skill, not luck.

The length of this level was incredible. I think this is both a positive and a negative. Everytime we got to a new section, our first thought was WOW, how have you fitted this in, but we were ready for it to end a few caves before it did. I think many creators will be very impressed with what you managed to squeeze in here and it will win you respect if not necessarily completes

finally, its amazing that you have so many plays in so little time. I am insanely jealous.
If you could return feedback on 'in pursuit of the meddling magpie' link in sig, I would appreciate it.
Adi		2010-01-17 21:20:00

Author:
TheAdipose
Posts: 533

Hiya guys,
Luos, Clarie and I played this through this evening and we were very impressed.


Oh, well... O.O, thanks! lol


The way you make one room hold so many passages, switches, doors and moving parts shows a lot of planning and a lot of creativity.


Oh yes, We planned every nook and cranny.
Some parts was built in base material and dark matter from Omega (or me, to show the concept) then I upgraded those parts, then Omega added details and refined gameplay, then I upgraded once more... and so on, you know...

I.e. : in a very early version, omega built a little base that seemed an high tech igloo with a little moving satellite receiver, and following the process from before, it has become the base you all know... ^_^


When I first started I was thinking 'oh another snow level' but this is so much more than that - once you get past the initial buildings, this opens up an underground wonderland. I think you chose well to split up the 'switch searches' with paintinator sections, this stops the level getting too repetitive.


Those are the exact words Omega told me in the concept phase; he asked to split sections.


The most outstanding moment for us (without a doubt) was the 'god' holding the magnifying glasses. That puzzle was simply fantastic. I personally found the controls a bit hard to use but Luos was fine with it.


The arms follows the direction in wich you pull/push the switch...


The only thing I would say for improvement is that I was trying to get the 'left hand' on the top space above the head, but we eventually found it fitted bottom left. I don't know if it works in both but it was unclear.


Every arm can reach all the globes within its side (left or right), but you have to 'magnify' the correct ones


I'm not normally a fan of plasma bosses - but I did like these. The reason was that the bosses shot in patterns and the shots are slow enough to avoid. I think this is definately a good thing as it then becomes a game of skill, not luck.

The length of this level was incredible. I think this is both a positive and a negative. Everytime we got to a new section, our first thought was WOW, how have you fitted this in, but we were ready for it to end a few caves before it did. I think many creators will be very impressed with what you managed to squeeze in here and it will win you respect if not necessarily completes


You can ask OmegaSlayer what I stated at the beginning of the creation process:

- No carved things
- No unnecessary edited circles
- No holes
- No unnecessary angles, only simple and little shapes
- No huge-and-full-of-angles objects (split them in more objects glued together)
- No unnecessary glueing things
- The most simplyfied incarnation of every logic switch we need (i.e. no falling perm switches, only dissolving perm switches)
- No logic networks unless seriously needed
- No unnecessary emitted objects
- No unnecessary 'free' objects
- No unnecessary switches
- Same material for the same purpose (see grabbable things) unless it is necessary to change it

And another hundred things with I vexed Omega with Pms over Pms and loooong popit messages...


finally, its amazing that you have so many plays in so little time. I am insanely jealous.
If you could return feedback on 'in pursuit of the meddling magpie' link in sig, I would appreciate it.
Adi

Thanks for the great feedback (really positive) and for the spare time of yours spent in our level.		2010-01-17 22:51:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

Wow.... i wanted to play LBP to relax a little before going to bed,
and I found myself playing this stressful, difficult, loooonnnggg (about 40 mn) , but AWESOME level!


I must admit that it's not my kind of level, I prefer more happy and easy ones (yeah like little girls... )

But I was just impressed by the work done here!
Really good platforming, puzzles and mechanisms, and everything was really smartly done!
Visuals were also very good, and the atmosphere of the level was very interesting with those quiet but stressfull musics...

I don't have much to say, this is just a great level!
Congratulations to you both!

:star::star::star::star::star:


No need for F4F!		2010-01-18 00:45:00

Author:
dajdaj03
Posts: 1486

Wow, this level was unbelievably long. While I can appreciate the effort, I think it worked against you here. I can't really remember anything specific, but I didn't like the caves section. I felt like I was looking at the same hugely zoomed out camera angles, doing the same things over and over again. I wasn't a huge fan of the boss fight, mostly because I wanted to just be done with the level and also because I wasn't exactly sure what I was fighting? I didn't see how it related to the satellite thing at all.

Now, I know this was pretty negative, mostly because I personally didn't like this level. I still gave it five stars for all the work you put into it, and for creating such an enormously huge level.		2010-01-18 01:43:00

Author:
thekevinexpress
Posts: 256

Played it again, still awesome. Like Cave Escape, it was a perfect combo of platforming and puzzles. The statue puzzle is probably the best I have seen on LBP. It was also extremely long and the backtracking to activate different switches was really fun too. My only complaint is that some of the levers were hard to see and some of them were so small that I kept pushing them accidentally. This is really just a nitpick though and the level is fine if you don't fix it. Overall it was an amazing level and I gave it 5/5 and a heart. I don't know if either of you guys have played it but can I get some feedback on Mysterious Planet: Black Ore (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=21278-Mysterious-Planet-Black-Ore)? Thanks.2010-01-18 02:52:00

Author:
Camden1
Posts: 83

So I just played it tonight before going to bed. I said to myself "you know, why not play a couple of LBP levels and call it a day" .... well, looks like I played only your level before it was LONG! You really did a great job at saving thermo there that's for sure. However, since it's so long and I didn't write down impressions on the go, there's details I might forget to comment on.

Pros:

-Very nice level design. It's very tricky, full of stuff that activate, moves, excellent use the layers, etc.
-Great boss. I liked that you made it 3 phases. It also looked alive and it was cool that it looked exactly like the puzzle statue.
-Unexpected good use of certain materials. I like when I see a good looking envirronement made of materials I wouldn't have expected. That shiny losanges metal at first the base, the serpent skin for grabs, the skull fence material, etc.
-Long and tricky. Sometimes we need a level like that.

Cons:

-While I like the level design, it didn't always felt "solid" and intuitive in my first play through. I felt like the level would have been perfect if identical but scaled a little bit bigger. I thought some platform jumping, certain timings and certain layer changes were a bit tight and it gave a bit of finnicky feel the platforming/navigation in overall.
-Long and tricky. Personally for me it's not much a con but I wouldn't play 3 levels in a row that are this long and I could see people not completing it (you know how the average LBPer is short switched...) So yeah, maybe I would have made it a tad shorter but with a bit more bite visually.


In overall its excellent. I'm not aware of the contest (I quite never go to that section of the forum) but I'll go see if we have to vote or something. You might just get my vote
Keep up the good work guys. I also noticed that you seem to have published some nice stuff in the past, miglioshin. I'll be checking you other stuff soon.


:star::star::star::star: + heart
(gave 5 in the game)		2010-01-18 05:43:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

Me and Adi (and claire) played the level,
I think what adi said almost sums it all up.

I do think that the yellow glass at the base is a little over the top.. I would really suggest something less in contrast with the rest,
or bring more contrast into the rest of the base. (though looking at the level I think thermo might be full )

Besides that, I kinda missed some variation in the level, sure we got the base, some puzzles and even the (VERY cool bosses),
but overall.. And I am kinda dissapointed by that.. is the fact that its 2waysiwitch here, 2wayswitch there, 2wayswitch overall.
It does guide you trough the level, but I would have liked to see some variation in how the player must continue besides pulling the 2wayswitches.

Also what adi tried to tell you about the statue with the lenses is that the 2wayswitches are just to small, you keep bumping up against the other and especially with more than 1p this might get so frustrating people might want to throw their controllers towards their tv's.
Now I do think that throwing controllers towards tv's will really add to the gameplay, I would suggest to make especially those twelve 2wayswitches bigger.


besides the little repetative feel because the level is huge (the huge-ness is a pro, the repetativeness a conn)
, I really do feel this is real competition for our level.

good job guys!		2010-01-18 12:11:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

I really enjoyed this level.... keep in mind, I haven't finished it yet... but I will take another crack at it tonight (I had just got back from a trip and I was really tired. But I wanted to check it out as soon as possible).

The very beginning with the mountain and the building you're trying to get into was fantastic. It immediately got my adrelanine going.

I also enjoyed the puzzles and rooms in the following sections.... although, since material thermo is it's own thermo, shouldn't there be room to make a bit more variant on the looks?

Ok, next I'm going to throw out a gripe. I was thoroughly enjoying myself until I got to an area where I was trying to do some careful platform jumping.... behind one of the "see-through" materials. I was having a really difficult time in this area judging the jumps specifically because the jumping was a bit obscured by the thin see-through material in front. My suggestion would be to have "windows" so that the player could clearly see what they're doing.

After that I ran into an area where I had to do some tricky platforming around some timed plasmas. I was just tired enough to where I simply couldn't do it (I tried MANY times).... but also, the trickiness of that part and the part right before really caught me off guard because the "theme" seemed to be a bit more puzzle-based and not hard-core-platform-dodge-plasma-based so it turned from having a great time (even though tired) to being a chore to get through the rest of it.

I'm definately not trying to be ultra-critical here. Normally at the top of my game I'm pretty good at getting through difficult levels, but that was my experience last night. I'm going to give it another shot tonight and see if, while well-rested, I can get through the rest of it and give you a bit better feedback.		2010-01-18 14:48:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Thanks CCubbage!
You were really near the ending of the level by the way, maybe this time it will be quicker, like all the levels when you know what you have to do.
We only have some thermo space for materials, you're right, but we're failing to find something that would fit, I can assure you all that we tried
We also tried to do something a little different like avoiding MGS materials for tech stuff, since it's way too overused (this was one of my main point before releasing the level), and Miglioshin had the great idea to use the sand as snow, and I must say that in my humble opinion it has a better effect than the snow sponge, again overabused.

In regards to what M'shin said about the thermo...he was really nitpicky, and many times he yelled "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO"es at me when I was trying stupid things or strange logics, but he is a far better creator than me, and I knew that with a little humbleness I would have had only good lessons to learn, since the man knows his stuff, a LOT.		2010-01-18 16:41:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

You meant I was pettifogging!? Really!?

Hmm...

Yeah, you're right, but I wasn't enough judging from the feedbacks...

lol		2010-01-18 23:45:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

No more feddbacks for us?

?__?		2010-01-20 17:12:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

I will get round to f4h soon. Just remind me. I sometimes forget!2010-01-20 17:22:00

Author:
KQuinn94Z
Posts: 1758

So I just played it tonight before going to bed. I said to myself "you know, why not play a couple of LBP levels and call it a day" .... well, looks like I played only your level before it was LONG! You really did a great job at saving thermo there that's for sure.


Thank you very much.
I always spend a lot of time and efforts throwing out ideas and thinking about how to keep them the same with the less thermo consumption possible.
I'm a thermo breaker!!

LOL



Pros:

-Very nice level design. It's very tricky, full of stuff that activate, moves, excellent use the layers, etc.
-Great boss. I liked that you made it 3 phases. It also looked alive and it was cool that it looked exactly like the puzzle statue.
-Unexpected good use of certain materials. I like when I see a good looking envirronement made of materials I wouldn't have expected. That shiny losanges metal at first the base, the serpent skin for grabs, the skull fence material, etc.
-Long and tricky. Sometimes we need a level like that.


Yep... but all my levels are quite long, you need an entire afternoon to play all of them (an they're 'only' 7...)



Cons:

-While I like the level design, it didn't always felt "solid" and intuitive in my first play through. I felt like the level would have been perfect if identical but scaled a little bit bigger. I thought some platform jumping, certain timings and certain layer changes were a bit tight and it gave a bit of finnicky feel the platforming/navigation in overall.


I had in mind this insane idea to build a level sackboy scaled...



-Long and tricky. Personally for me it's not much a con but I wouldn't play 3 levels in a row that are this long and I could see people not completing it (you know how the average LBPer is short switched...) So yeah, maybe I would have made it a tad shorter but with a bit more bite visually.


Yeah, is the best pro and the worst con of my levels!!!



In overall its excellent. I'm not aware of the contest (I quite never go to that section of the forum) but I'll go see if we have to vote or something. You might just get my vote


Yes, maybe (if we pay) we'll get probably ONLY your vote... LOL
I think that there will be a selected jury to judge the levels, but I'm not sure of that, in fact OmegaSlayer dragged me into this (I don't mean that it's a bad thing).



Keep up the good work guys. I also noticed that you seem to have published some nice stuff in the past, miglioshin. I'll be checking you other stuff soon.


I would be really glad if you're willing to do it.



:star::star::star::star: + heart
(gave 5 in the game)

Thank you for the feedback, the support in the game, and the (large amount of) spare time of yours spent in our level.		2010-01-20 22:32:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

Wow is one word I would use to describe it but its hard to describe in one word...
Comp and I played this together a few days ago and we got an error and couldn't reconnect, I ended up halfway through the level and decided to try it another day. The next day I played through it and was amazed at how long it was and how well it looked even though you were trying to save thermo. I had the urge to play it again but sadly I didn't have time.

Pros:
Very nicely done even though trying to save thermo.
An excellent use of materials especially since you pulled off the few you used.
The level was very long but had plenty of gameplay you interested.
The level was not too hard and I found it easy.
Had many new gameplay elements I hadn't seen before like the statue that reminded me of Uncharted 2.
The music was excellent (if there wasn't any music then I am thinking of another level) and went nicely with the level.
The whole level had a nice flow to it.

Cons:
There were too many levers as someone else stated and some were too small.
Some gaps were a tough jump.
At the final boss it is hard to distinguish what layer the plasma is in.

I can't really think of any other cons.

I loved the plasma dodging areas probably because I did so well at them (you should have seen the difference in my and Comps score after it). I have to try to ace it soon, I really only died at the final boss.

I will play again soon!		2010-01-21 21:05:00

Author:
tanrockstan34
Posts: 1076

HELP!!!
I'm totally deep stuck in a level and hope you could help me out!!!
It's the screen after the part when you have to switch the four heads to red, green, yellow and red with four kind of hatches. It consists of two dimensions where I have to get to the front dimension where the lazer beems is but it's IMPOSSIBLE to go there. Except that it has two lava squares spinning around with spikes at one of them. I have been in top to switch "the other layer" on but I can't go there. Don't know if this is enough information to picture which level I'm stuck in. Both me and my friend are decent players but we have been stuck for hours now. PLEASE help us someone!!

Regards		2010-01-21 23:40:00

Author:
Samson1te
Posts: 2

Hi!
When you pull the switch and the mid layer shift, you also get a blue sponge/companion cube to help you jump on the new platform on the right.		2010-01-22 07:15:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Thank you very much OmegaSlayer

I have seen the new blue sponge/companion but - its waaay to small to help me getting up from it? We have tried like 50 jumps already, but if you say so we'll try some more. Just lovely to know that it actually has a solution, cause I am about to go insane.

Brilliant map by the way - sooo well thought out and it's a cool balance of difficulty all the time! By miles the best I've tried in my short LBP time 		2010-01-22 08:03:00

Author:
Samson1te
Posts: 2

So I finally got around to playing this last night... Sort of. I didn't finish. Not because I had problems or I didn't like it, just because I was itching to get back into create mode and it was taking too long

I'll actually play through properly at the weekend properly, but I just wanted to say that you've done a great job here. As indication of how good it is, I'll just say this: You've managed to tick most of the boxes on my level design pet hates list, yet I still thoroughly enjoyed it. And if that isn't a sign of quality I don't know what is 		2010-01-22 12:42:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

HELP!!!
I'm totally deep stuck in a level and hope you could help me out!!!
It's the screen after the part when you have to switch the four heads to red, green, yellow and red with four kind of hatches. It consists of two dimensions where I have to get to the front dimension where the lazer beems is but it's IMPOSSIBLE to go there. Except that it has two lava squares spinning around with spikes at one of them. I have been in top to switch "the other layer" on but I can't go there. Don't know if this is enough information to picture which level I'm stuck in. Both me and my friend are decent players but we have been stuck for hours now. PLEASE help us someone!!

Regards

Omega forgot to state that you have to approach the jump from the right-end of the room in order to manage it.		2010-01-22 15:12:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

So I finally got around to playing this last night... Sort of. I didn't finish.
Not because I had problems or I didn't like it, just because I was itching to get back into create mode and it was taking too long


LOL!
I perfectly understand what you mean.
It also happens to me quite all the times.




I'll actually play through properly at the weekend properly, but I just wanted to say that you've done a great job here.
As indication of how good it is, I'll just say this: You've managed to tick most of the boxes on my level design pet hates list, yet I still thoroughly enjoyed it. And if that isn't a sign of quality I don't know what is


Thank you so much rtm223, I hope you will leave an accurate feedback (since I recently re-played subterranean and still enjoyed it) and I'm also curious about your pet hates in level design wich we tick in our level.
Maybe in the next level (yet in progress) we manage to take them out definately.		2010-01-22 15:17:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

Wow is one word I would use to describe it but its hard to describe in one word...


:blush:



Comp and I played this together a few days ago and we got an error and couldn't reconnect, I ended up halfway through the level and decided to try it another day. The next day I played through it and was amazed at how long it was and how well it looked even though you were trying to save thermo. I had the urge to play it again but sadly I didn't have time.


Yeah, I understand, it is so LONG that is quite a commitment (if not a chore, lol) to entirely re-play it, I had to stay home from work only to test it properly!

(just kidding)

LOL



Pros:
Very nicely done even though trying to save thermo.


I'm glad of that, it's my mission to exploit the thermo to the max, though I can honestly say (never told this to Omega) that I'm not completely satisfied with the final visual results, and it's quite all by my fault.



An excellent use of materials especially since you pulled off the few you used.


Ditto as above.



Had many new gameplay elements I hadn't seen before like the statue that reminded me of Uncharted 2.


Actually at the moment I have this Uncharted2 xmb theme (provided with the collector's edition) that show this 4 armed statue in the bottom right corner.
I believe that having this picture right before my eyes everytime I turn on my ps3 has biased me a little on that puzzle.
LOL!



The music was excellent (if there wasn't any music then I am thinking of another level) and went nicely with the level.
The whole level had a nice flow to it.


I assure you that there was music!
LOL!



Cons:
There were too many levers as someone else stated and some were too small.


I hate how the 'normal' size levers mess with the level (personal taste), so I though of resize them was a nice idea, but obviously (according to ALL the feedbacks) I went too far with that...
In the next level I will increase their size for sure.



At the final boss it is hard to distinguish what layer the plasma is in.


I realized it while testing, then tried two different colours (back and front) but, with that 'improvement', the boss were no match.
I know that having a boss that manage to kill you only because you can't distinguish in wich layer he's shooting is unfair and cheap, I would have changed it if we provided limited checkpoints, but due to the unlimited ones I always told to myself that it was a minor issue that could be solved later on...



I loved the plasma dodging areas probably because I did so well at them (you should have seen the difference in my and Comps score after it). I have to try to ace it soon, I really only died at the final boss.

I will play again soon!

I think that Ccubb was pretty tired during his play, because I cannot imagine him succumb to that.
It requires a good timing, and you can jump over the horizontal plasma, so I'm waiting for his second playthrough (if he's not daunted by the 'hugeness' of the level).

Regardless, thank you for your feedback and for the spare time of yours spent in our gigantic (lol) level.		2010-01-22 15:52:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

Firt, thanks rtm
Then, as M'shin said, the visual didn't satisfy us, but we went through lot of compromises.
First of all, putting lots of ideas into the level, and leaving many things out...maybe we were compelled by the competition...
We had to sacrifice visuals trying still to have a different look than many levels.
My problems were most of all the abudancy of corners that somewhere hardens the difficulty of some jumps.
But they someway characterize the level.
Then, the lack of some perm switches.

Anyway, as my friend hinted, this series will sport other 2 already planned levels that will very differ gameplay wise, so expect them one day...we'll work on them with a slower pace.		2010-01-22 19:33:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

My returned F4F:

First off I'll say you've put an amazing amount of stuff in there and it's built very well. When playing through with Omega I said you must have used both your thermos. I wasn't joking. Seriously I couldn't get that level in a crater on my moon.

Anyway i've tried it again but unfortunately it's just way too difficult and annoying for me. I couldn't get through it.

The layer changing at times is really awkward, even in the building at the start. There's one part where you go up and there is a tunnel with yellow glass at the top and bubbles behind that's like a maze simply because you can't see what layer is what. Infact seeing things is the major drawback for me with this level. As has previously been mentioned all the switches are way too small. I couldn't actually see some of them. Couple that with the really zoomed out cameras and everything looks tiny making it a chore just to see anything at all.

I found that first boss with the plasma annoying because I died so many times there and it just went on too long. I probably died as many times with the fire under the checkpoint when respawning as I did with the plasma though. It would be nice to have a safe area when respawning at least.

I found that same problem at the part with the spikes going up and down over the pillars. That's as far as I got because that part is just ridiculously difficult. Not only is it hard anyway to avoid the spikes but you also put fire underneath so you even die if you fall. I managed to get across twice out of about 50 attempts but then the first spike block is too high to jump to. I just couldn't get on it to go over the top. Someone had joined me just before that part too and they asked if we could play another level as this was just too frustrating. I'm sorry but I had to agree so we quit then.

Also just before that part we were trying to jump up to the right somewhere and one of us fell right down the back of the scenery and ended up at those spike block pillar things. This counted out the player above so I think we missed one section entirely. I'm pretty sure this happened when I played it with Omega too.

Sorry to be so negative but although the technical stuff in the level is amazing and the fact you managed to use 2 or 3 thermos equally amazing it's just not enjoyable to play for me.

P.S. I forgot to say the puzzle with the magnifying glasses would have been good had it not been for the really small switches yet again which were placed far too close together. It's impossible to move one without touching one of the others which made a good looking puzzle simply annoying.		2010-01-22 20:35:00

Author:
mistervista
Posts: 2210

I hate how the 'normal' size levers mess with the level (personal taste), so I though of resize them was a nice idea, but obviously (according to ALL the feedbacks) I went too far with that...
In the next level I will increase their size for sure.

It wasn't too bad after my second play through, you just have to jump into the middle layer or else you will mess up the switch.



I realized it while testing, then tried two different colours (back and front) but, with that 'improvement', the boss were no match.
I know that having a boss that manage to kill you only because you can't distinguish in wich layer he's shooting is unfair and cheap, I would have changed it if we provided limited checkpoints, but due to the unlimited ones I always told to myself that it was a minor issue that could be solved later on...

It wasn't that big of a problem, just a little annoyance. If it wasn't an infinite life checkpoint there it could have been to difficult for some people to finish. Also maybe another nitpick that could be improved on in this part is putting the paintinator up in the third layer and the checkpoint there as well (if it wasn't already in the third layer).



Regardless, thank you for your feedback and for the spare time of yours spent in our gigantic (lol) level.

Oh it was no problem, it was a great level after all. It could be improved on here and there but those are just nit-picks.		2010-01-22 21:20:00

Author:
tanrockstan34
Posts: 1076

First off I'll say you've put an amazing amount of stuff in there and it's built very well. When playing through with Omega I said you must have used both your thermos. I wasn't joking. Seriously I couldn't get that level in a crater on my moon. Anyway i've tried it again but unfortunately it's just way too difficult and annoying for me. I couldn't get through it.

Oh, I'm sorry for that, we didn't mean players to be annoyed or frustrated even if we didn't build a 'sit back and relax' level...


The layer changing at times is really awkward, even in the building at the start. There's one part where you go up and there is a tunnel with yellow glass at the top and bubbles behind that's like a maze simply because you can't see what layer is what. Infact seeing things is the major drawback for me with this level.

Maybe ''really ankward'' sounds too harsh and mean to me. And for the 'roof'; pardon me but, how can you say that? You are coming from the middle layer and you are intended to stay up just the time to jump on the roof and pull the switch, can't you remeber from wich layer you entered? If that's so it is definately not a design issue, several people played with me (and I let them lead the game since we were playtesting) and none of them encountered such an issue up there, maybe it's just you being hasty and not so willing to play the level... PP


As has previously been mentioned all the switches are way too small. I couldn't actually see some of them. Couple that with the really zoomed out cameras and everything looks tiny making it a chore just to see anything at all.

As I said before, I went too far in resizeing the levers. A thing that I will fix in future chapters of the saga.


I found that first boss with the plasma annoying because I died so many times there and it just went on too long. I probably died as many times with the fire under the checkpoint when respawning as I did with the plasma though. It would be nice to have a safe area when respawning at least.

Wait! The fire ISN'T under the chexk point, there IS a safe layer in wich you collect the paintinator, then you have to wait the door to fully open before jumping under the boss. So, you respawn in a SAFE area, and since between the 2 plasma patterns (the same played forward and backward) there is also a pause of 2 secs, you can also wait for the weak moment to jump into action. But this means that you are taking your time while playing, not rushing everywhere PP


I found that same problem at the part with the spikes going up and down over the pillars. That's as far as I got because that part is just ridiculously difficult. Not only is it hard anyway to avoid the spikes but you also put fire underneath so you even die if you fall. I managed to get across twice out of about 50 attempts but then the first spike block is too high to jump to. I just couldn't get on it to go over the top.

I can't deny that it is the hardest part of the level, because it actually is. The spikes blocks are not too high, they simply aren't too low PP You can jump on the first, on the second, third and fourth aswell, from the near higher pillar. It require a bit of timing though.


Someone had joined me just before that part too and they asked if we could play another level as this was just too frustrating. I'm sorry but I had to agree so we quit then.

I think that you did the best thing in that moment. If the level is out of your reach it is an obvious consequence that you''ll become frustrated really quick. You better leave instead of feel forced to remain.


Also just before that part we were trying to jump up to the right somewhere and one of us fell right down the back of the scenery and ended up at those spike block pillar things. This counted out the player above so I think we missed one section entirely. I'm pretty sure this happened when I played it with Omega too.

Stop and think a little bit at this: If you are palying with the creator himself, how you can miss an entire part of a level without a really big bug? Maybe you had this feeling, I figured out the location you're talking about, and I swear you missed nothing exception made for some score bubbles placed in front of the see-through layer, climbing up only lead you to collect theese bubbles.


Sorry to be so negative but although the technical stuff in the level is amazing and the fact you managed to use 2 or 3 thermos equally amazing it's just not enjoyable to play for me.

No problems if you disliked the level, or if you left a negative feedback. Just, I really do feel that some of your criticism is due to the level being out of your reach. With some other of the same criticism I can only agree.


P.S. I forgot to say the puzzle with the magnifying glasses would have been good had it not been for the really small switches yet again which were placed far too close together. It's impossible to move one without touching one of the others which made a good looking puzzle simply annoying.

When a lense is in place for at least 2 seconds, invisible walls of dark matter are emitted as lids, so you will be unable to move levers again once you left the layer they are in. If the levers was more distant one from each other the room would have been a lot bigger (for reason of physic space needed), players woul'd have argued that you were unable to see well because you cannot see the entire statue while moving the arms with the (bigger and more distant from each other) levers. Regardless, thank you for the feedback and for the (frustrating and annoying) spare time of yours spent in our level.		2010-01-23 17:53:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

Read my comments. That'll explain all I need to say.2010-01-23 23:20:00

Author:
KQuinn94Z
Posts: 1758

So, here they are:



Need oxygen!
I'm exhausted!
Yet exhilarated!
The sense of accomplishment is so great when you complete a level that took me one hour, while dying 35 times and having a heck of a good time!
77 stars...
That is pure win.
Just run away with your crowns, as because you deserve the crowns.
Team Italy rocks!


I honestly think that this is the best comment I ever received among all my creations (including songs, comics and stories).
What can I say except that you make me blush?

THANK YOU!

And also thank you for playing and for the spare time spent in our level.

P.S.:
I changed the see-through material in that difficult layer challenge with the rusty grid one, it melt less with the level but you can see better through it.		2010-01-24 10:31:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

Great level but the switches were TOO small. It was really frustrating having to jump over them since they were to small to walk under in the puzzle where you moved the statues arms2010-01-24 11:15:00

Author:
Unknown User

I got angry with the skull background and painted it white so it stood out... but this only helped to see the front layer properly... it made the back layer worse. 2010-01-24 15:46:00

Author:
KQuinn94Z
Posts: 1758

I got angry with the skull background and painted it white so it stood out... but this only helped to see the front layer properly... it made the back layer worse.

Lol, I thought it got annoying to see but only to an extent.		2010-01-26 02:56:00

Author:
tanrockstan34
Posts: 1076

This level spawns controversy.
We have a fair amount of good review and a lot of awesome comments on the level, then some rightful critics (we have done a dumb move with the switches) and a 3 star rating, we weren't in the Spotlight (was our level played and finished by the spotlighters? I don't even know, I still remember Neo's levels Memsut 1 and 2 not being spotlighted while being the best pyramid based levels I have played, and I'm not the only one thinking it)...seems like we're back to the point were a difficult level is a bad level, and again I'm disappointed.		2010-01-26 07:27:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

I dont really think so that this level is bad due its difficulty. ( i think the difficulty rocks, and ive played harder levels lol)
But you got to understand that length can costs a toll.

First of all, the level starts to feel repetative halfway, and every time the player gets discouraged by even more rooms and has more challenges to overcome. (others are amazed by it offcourse)
and 2/3rd trough the level even the visuals might get dull for the eyes.
And thats probably the bottleneck of this great level: repetativeness visually and around the same 2/3rd of the level starts to feel like homework you just have to finish before tomorrow instead of a fun puzzly level.

This is a great level for those who like challenges, who like to do some hard platforming and a few very neat puzzles,
but I think the mainstream lbp-er will find it too hard, and eventually too repetative.
I think the shere size of this level is more impressive for fellow level designers (like myself),
and less impressive to that average player.

Thats my enviroment artist point of view.

personally,
I agree that this level should have been spotlighted though.

*big hug*

Luos!		2010-01-26 12:33:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

First of all, the level starts to feel repetative halfway, and every time the player gets discouraged by even more rooms and has more challenges to overcome.
and 2/3rd trough the level even the visuals might get dull for the eyes.
And thats probably the bottleneck of this great level: repetativeness visually and around the same 2/3rd of the level starts to feel like homework you just have to finish before tomorrow instead of a fun puzzly level.

This is a great level for those who like challenges, who like to do some hard platforming and a few very neat puzzles,
but I think the mainstream lbp-er will find it to hard, and eventually to repetative.
I think the shere size of this level is more impressive for fellow level designers (like myself),
and less impressive to that average player.

I didn't really feel like it was repetitive, but I can see where the level was so long that the materials did seem repetitive. Like Luos said, some people will value the length and the time to put into it but some only just play a level and rate it what it's rated.

I thought it was great because I could tell how much work was put into it, it was a great quality level that deserved to be spotlighted. Maybe next time....		2010-01-26 13:00:00

Author:
tanrockstan34
Posts: 1076

Thanks both of you.

Though it can seem so, we didn't 'finished our homeworks in a hurry' for tomorrow; the level is meant to be like it is and we did all we can to make it the best we can; isn't this actually the aim of creating something together?

We wanted just to provide a long and challenging level, also visually appealing in some ways, to exploit the thermo and to show that, with a little bit of efforts and compromises (of course), visuals has quite nothing to do with the level lenght.

All the levels by me (except for one) are reeeeeeally long, because I'm not short-minded like the general audience.
And I don't care much about them, I know there is a small group of people that loves long levels like me, so I let them play something worth it from time to time (and so they do), and as for the other players they can continue to play ''submerged hotel bomb survival with sharks and REAL WATER h4h 1.000.000 prize bubbles free costumes!'' and rate my level 1 star, tagging boring, empty, crap... if they want to.
I don't really care anymore of them.

The results didn't satisfy us completely (but this is another story), but that's all we can do so far, we are not graphically talented like jump_button or wexfordian (i.e.) and maybe we will never be, actually I'm more confident with silhouette style and stickers, however, I think (in fact) that everything is repetative (also life itself, wake up, wash, go work, eat, go home, see friends, see girl/boy, watch tv, go to sleep), and adding some other materials would have only made the level worser (and we tried almost every material).

For the complaints concerning the small switches, this is my humble opinion:
I though that it would be cool if for once in a while we can have a sackboy scaled switch instead of the bigger and disproportionate ones.
All the puzzles and switches are consequently designed according to the issue that you can move the levers by accident, so nothing's permanent and all can be reversed.
And, moreover, I honestly think that all the mechanics work in a flawless way.
Is this less important? I remind that 1 star rating was reserved to those level that breaks and are not playable due to flaws and NOT due to lack of skills.
So, where's the problem in jumping over a lever instead of passing under it?

I also though that it would be cool if you pull a switch and an entire part of the room reveals and stuff moves and activate, in the first cave; as for the second I thought that it was time for some severe platforming and for the third for an evolving layer challenge back and forth through the cave.
We also inserted a downhill race, a plasma boss that shoot in patterns (and not random), a big well animated final 3 stage boss and an area that can be beaten only in multiplayer.
1 heavy puzzle, 1 simple puzzle and a timed puzzle.
Honestly I don't see all this lack of variation in a gameplay (LBP) strongly based on jumps, pulling switches, shooting paintballs and drag things around.
At this stage the thermo's full for real, so?

Honestly, in 'con' feedbacks I saw only criticism without providing any kind of suggestion, so opposite than constructive.
But also this thing, for me, is not a bigg issue to worry about.
Until a post remain polite, it can say everything the typer want or feel or think.

I just feel sorry for OmegaSlayer because he's disappointed about how things have gone with this level.

As for me, he did really great, he put ideas, (night) time, mind in this project and I could never ask for a better partner; we built an awesome level, because I, in first, think it is.

Sorry for the long post and, if you think this sounds like a rant, keep in mind that I'm not posting in my motherlanguage so I cannot properly express myself like I would have done in Italian.

Cheers.		2010-01-27 00:43:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

Dont worry Mig,
I loved the long level! rather one long good level than 10 short average ones

Also I loved how that wall appeared and provided more work for sackboy.

Tell Omega that he shouldnt be dissapointed, he should be very very proud!
I for one, could never created something like this, and neither do most creators.		2010-01-27 01:10:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

Thanks to you all guys!
****! We're gonna melt your faces with the next level!!! 		2010-01-27 13:11:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

You better melt my face off!
I would love to go all zombie like for the next few years 		2010-01-27 17:16:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

I loved it, absolutely loved it. I can understand that and different materials than the ones you have know would not look good. It really isn't repetitive to someone (like you said) who enjoys a good long level. Anyone who knows something about the thermo will appreciate the level too. After I layed this level I actually felt bad for the thermo. The levers were not really a big deal, people who are too lazy to jump over them have to work out their own problems, I mean really it is a platforming game.

I would have never been able to create anything as good as you and Omega have created here, you are a great team and Omega should not feel bad. Those are the little chuckers of LBP that don't really know the difference between a GREAT level and a H4H level. I am sorry if I gave you any empty feedback because your right, how could we expect the level to get any better if we don't provide any detailed suggestions.

The gameplay was great, I did not find it repetitive and really found it the complete opposite. There was plenty of never before seen gameplay to go around and should have satisfied anyone who played the level.

I am sure the low ratings are from young kids (again ) that probably don't finish the level or thought it was too hard. A hard level is good as there are not really any challenging ones around anymore.

Really Omega, what are you sad about, you made one of the best levels I have played. Please don't tell me it's about ratings, it is an unfair, abused system and should not really be in the game until it's improved. Too many get upset about the rating system and who really cares. I know people like to know others like their level(s) but isn't only what you think of it?

Oh and I hope the next level melts my face off, I need another good helping of Miglioshin/Omega great levels!		2010-01-27 21:06:00

Author:
tanrockstan34
Posts: 1076

Don't be sad Omega. I have three levels. My first two I was convinced were Spotlight material. People had me convinced too. Neither made it. I was a little dissapointed. Just had to move on to something else. I think your level is an incredible feat and If I had a vote, you would get those crowns. A hard level can also be an amazing level.

My level has THREE stars as well. Many comments saying:

"Grrr what do we at teh bridg??!!!one!!!!"
People are clueless.

Your level is awesome, so be really happy. I would think as some people say:
1 play and feedback from a member on here is better than 1000 plays and 200 hearts"
Don't expect the majority to like it. The majority can't handle it!		2010-01-27 21:14:00

Author:
KQuinn94Z
Posts: 1758

My level has two stars as well. Many comments saying:

"Grrr what do we at teh bridg??!!!one!!!!"
People are clueless.


TWO!?
So, need improvements!?
WTF!?

It has to be still there among the comments, this is the dumbest comment I ever received on a level:

Alluxus:
"This level is so boring! I have never seen that much switches in one level! It repeats itself too much! One star..."

LOL

What you think you are playing with?
Super Mario Kart?
Or cooking Mama?

Evanesced answered to this:
"Unappreciative n00b"

lol



Don't expect the majority to like it. The majority can't handle it!

Indeed.		2010-01-27 23:02:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

well put it like this.
Van Gogh was really underappreciated.

2010-01-28 01:20:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136

I meant three stars! And you deserve 722010-01-28 23:01:00

Author:
KQuinn94Z
Posts: 1758

Thanks for the support guys.
I take the chance to introduce a new member in Team Italy:
Please welcome Shadowheaven!
He will help us with the next two installments of the series.		2010-01-29 06:23:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Though, we can't really say when it will be pubblished (and IF it will be, as for me).

Since I realized yesterday evening that I'm kind of dauntend in putting all that effort in design something else, even if I appreciate the strong support received (by few people actually) very, very, very much; I am in lack of inspiration and motivation, and I feel like the time has come for me to dedicate myself to something else; I can't keep up anymore with the pace, the quality, the originality, the innovation, the variety, the eye-candy visuals and the perfect design required by the community to appreciate a new level by a quite unknown author like me (ore someone else).

Even if I had a really good time while creating with OmegaSlayer; well, a bitter taste in my mouth has grown and I'm starting to look at this level like an epic fail.

I feel like being between the hammer and the anvil, where the hammer is the general short-minded lbp community hittin' 1 star button, and the anvil is the taste of this community, now too demanding to satiate.

It's not my fault (or Omega's), I did the very best I can; if the very best I can is not enough it only means that there is no more place for me.		2010-01-29 17:20:00

Author:
Miglioshin
Posts: 336

*hands over cool glass of beer to mig*

Dont worry Mig,
I am sure a lot of people are inspired (Heck, I am so gonna use that puzzle comming out of wall one) and love this level.
I for one love your legend of a hero series and have played trough them 4 times now.
Not every piece of work one delivers will be a masterpiece, and more reason for one to try and break some more limits and boundaries.
As the intro of lbp kinda states.. Creativity is endless, undying as long as you understand that there are no boundaries in your own creativity.. all you need to do is practice, try, create, hate and repeat untill the hate turns back into love.
I gave lbp (and enviroment design) up a year ago..
And look where I am now..
I released 5 levels allready, the sixth is ready and will be released on sunday and the 7th (me and Adi working on it) is allready 60 or 70% done.

I dont think this level is a reason to quit, its a reason to learn from any mistakes and maybe take the time to create a few levels totally out of your comfort zone. (Because of Adi my boundaries are pushed regularly, and it starts to show in the quality of my levels)

Dont give up, a break sure.
But dont give up.		2010-01-29 18:12:00

Author:
Luos_83
Posts: 2136


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