Archive: 43 posts

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Many creators out there just have this special technique on keeping a level 5 stars for example ruofs - a lil platformer ... Hit highest rated in 2 weeks. My friend fijski and poms have several 5 star levels. I'm not majorly bothered about getting my level to a 5 star but what's the point if they're not worth a 5 star, if you think about it carefully don't you think, how sad? To levels which deserve it I don't mind, I wouldn't want to mention any specific levels.

2010-01-15 11:52:00 Author: XXGrEEn0Xx Posts: 75

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Hmm, you've kind of answered your own question. Certain creators don't as much 'retain' 5 star levels - they republish it, keep locking it, and then a lot of trigger-happy players simply keep the rating as it appears. It seems questionable to me, but hey, I'm beyond caring about ratings, heart/play ratios, repeat plays etc. The ratings system is messed up and manipulated, but as long as there are creators who feel they need 5-star ratings to show their awesomeness, I can't see it changing. The great shame is that we've all played levels that are rated 5-star, and they quite clearly are not, and in my view it's rather insulting to those levels that are genuinely fresh, innovative, exciting, and downright brilliant, but that somehow get 3- or 4-star rated. Like I say, deal with it how you must. Here's a revelation for you - I'll probably never 'retain' a 5-star rating. To be truthful, I used to hope that I would get one, but now I don't give two hoots. So, for me, if my friends enjoy my levels, and if most people on here enjoy them, I'm totally happy. ANYONE can get a 5-star rating if they want one. Get 5 or 10 friends to play it, rate it 5 stars, then lock it. Simple. Use it or abuse it how you want.

2010-01-15 12:11:00 Author: MrsSpookyBuz Posts: 1492

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Yeh but the annoying thing is people that do get high rating, that dont really deserve. They get tonnes of plays and like you said the better ones might only get 3-4 stars. Like my friend nitewalker, he has this awesome level which deserves so much more credit. But he only has a 3 star rating. People would see that the level is only 3 star and not want to play it. He only has like 200 plays on the level. If you get the time try it out. Its called The Garden. Sorry for getting off topic, but that really annoys me.

2010-01-15 12:34:00 Author: litled Posts: 165

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The thing to remember is that the rating is done on the avergae of what everyone rates it, and that 5 stars is one end of the scale, making it very unlikely that'll 5 will ever be the average. If people were to rate a level 4 or 5 stars, you'sd neeed over half to be 5 stars to get a 5 star rating. Then consider the people that rate 1, 2 or 3 stars (there are ALWAYS people who won't like even the best of levels), and you'#re probably looking at needing at least 90% people to rate it 5 stars, which is pretty hard to achieve. It's like if you were to ask people to choose a number between 1 and 10, the average will almost never be 1 or 10 because they're at either end. So, the only way to retain a 5 star rating is to be incredibly awesome, or cheat, or get lucky. Most of the best levels will at most only be able to keep a 4 star rating.

2010-01-15 12:44:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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I noticed our very own Poms has a number of 5-star levels, all on the highest rated pages, complete with several tens or hundreds of thousands of plays. I think we can all agree that looks impressive, but after reading MrsSpookyBuzz's post, things make a bit more sense. Nothing against Poms, his levels are quite good, but the rest of our best authors don't typically achieve these types of statistics, because as Nuclearfish stated, most of the best levels are usually rated 4-stars simply due to the distribution of ratings. Perhaps the ratings were based on a moving average this would be different (and arguably a more intelligent solution). 5-star levels that end up glued to the highest rated pages undoubtedly accumulate massive playcounts. So I guess if you "work the system" to get 5-star levels, you can rack up the hearts and plays quite easily, but in the end it doesn't mean much.

2010-01-15 15:32:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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Most people cheat to get 5 star ratings anymore. I'd rather a 4 star rating that I earned than a 5 star rating that I cheated to get, personally. And concerning Poms levels, they are completely deserving of the 5 star rating in my opinion. Edit: Yeah, Thegide, I caught you mid edit, my bad.

2010-01-15 15:36:00 Author: xkappax Posts: 2569

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I think you caught me mid-edit. I had to switch computers ^^. I agree that some of his levels are worth 5 stars (as I would rate them), especially the Hells Angels series, but for a single author to nail 5 stars on just about every level published is fishy. The community just doesn't work like that. I'm not going to accuse Poms of anything, perhaps he just appeals to a large part of the community with his style. But how many levels have you seen here on LBPC that are worth 5 stars that are rated only 3 or 4?

2010-01-15 15:44:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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Agreed, getting 5 stars used to be cool, I did see it as an achievement. However now, because people have found ways to cheat the system, pretty much any level can be 5 stars. Taking ruof's for example, that is a nice little level. It works well, it's simple, fun, and effective. But it is not a 5 star level, pretty much everything in it has been seen before and a lot of it is just other peoples ideas reshaped. There isn't anything in there that makes you go 'wow' or stands out, and that's what 5 star levels are about. The rating system has never been great, but at least before it wasn't great because of how the whole community as one were messing it up. Now it is being corrupted by single individuals for their own ends, which is disappointing.

2010-01-15 15:59:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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In my experience it's easier to find really good levels by looking for 4 star ratings. I've gotten to the point where I won't even play a 5 star level unless it's something I've seen here and want to play.

2010-01-15 16:12:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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I think that at the same time a lot of people will cheat, some are genuine. Ruof didn't realise his level was on page one until a week or two after it got there. So if he was cheating, he would have observed it along it's path. Personally I don't care for 5 stars etc. Because we all know this game as some people who don't agree with everyone. You always get someone who dislikes your level. If everyone liked the exact same stuff, I might have quit this game already out of boredom. XP Things could work better, but I've got no clue how it would be sorted. Knowing me I would accidentally make it worse.

2010-01-15 16:17:00 Author: KQuinn94Z Posts: 1758

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Agreed, getting 5 stars used to be cool, I did see it as an achievement. However now, because people have found ways to cheat the system, pretty much any level can be 5 stars. Taking ruof's for example, that is a nice little level. It works well, it's simple, fun, and effective. But it is not a 5 star level, pretty much everything in it has been seen before and a lot of it is just other peoples ideas reshaped. There isn't anything in there that makes you go 'wow' or stands out, and that's what 5 star levels are about. The rating system has never been great, but at least before it wasn't great because of how the whole community as one were messing it up. Now it is being corrupted by single individuals for their own ends, which is disappointing. Thing is, some authors might recognize their level being worth 5 stars and undertake said measures to ensure their levels are rated accordingly. So in a sense, they deserve the rating that they have, although in a system that consistently undervalues great levels and overvalues garbage, I argue this is still unethical since ratings are intended to be the decision of the community not the author. However, we're probably all guilty of this to a certain extent. Who doesn't rate their own levels 5 stars when they first publish? For me to rate a level 5 stars, it has to be pretty phenomenal. A gorgeous level with interesting story doesn't get a 5 star rating if the gameplay is absent (i.e. LittleDeadSpace... great effort huge amount of work, zero gameplay). Similarly a fun level that hasn't been meticulously polished in the graphics department only gets a 4-star rating. I'm a tough judge, but my ratings standards are based off the Mm levels. Unless you can match or exceed the quality in all departments of those levels, you get 4 stars for great stuff. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter if you have 4 stars and 10,000 plays or 5 stars and 300,000 plays. What seems to be a huge difference statistically I find is generally the same high quality stuff.

2010-01-15 16:26:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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For me to rate a level 5 stars, it has to be pretty phenomenal. A gorgeous level with interesting story doesn't get a 5 star rating if the gameplay is absent (i.e. LittleDeadSpace... great effort huge amount of work, zero gameplay). Similarly a fun level that hasn't been meticulously polished in the graphics department only gets a 4-star rating. I'm a tough judge, but my ratings standards are based off the Mm levels. Unless you can match or exceed the quality in all departments of those levels, you get 4 stars for great stuff.. This is getting into a whole new discussion entirely but I think how people choose to rate levels is related too. Personally, I rate them according to what the creator was trying to achieve. So yes, I think LittleDeadSpace would get 5 stars from me. It wasn't like he was trying to make a platforming level and failed, that just wasn't his intention. Others I think it's hard to know when to stop, would you rate down a puzzle level for not having any platforming? A music level for not having any puzzles? Obviously that last one is a exaggerated example but you get my point. I just think that rating should be done in line with what the creator intended and not someone's personal preferences. There's many levels out their that I don't really like, LittleBigLand by Amazingflyingpoo for example, but I can still 100% appreciate what he was trying to do and what he has achieved, so for that, he gets 5 stars.

2010-01-15 16:42:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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But then again, it's difficult to know what the creator intended. LittleDeadSpace was excellently choreographed, but should I assume that was the only point of the level? There were some elements of platforming and puzzle solving, so it's a bit confusing. It felt like a platformer that neglected much of the gameplay in favor of visuals, and so while it provided ample eye candy, I was kinda bored by the whole thing. Music levels are a class of level on their own, I don't think anyone really expects much gameplay since the focus is on the music, but should that mean that wrapping the level up in some sort of entertaining visual experience isn't also important? Other levels like littlebigcalculator function as tech demonstrations can't be rated on their gameplay as much as their ingenuity. I can certainly appreciate things even though I might not enjoy them and can rate them fairly despite this. I don't think the younger players of LBP really do the same, but that's the way the community is. Anyways, you're right, this is more of a new discussion entirely, but at the end of the day, a level's impression on one player is almost certainly different than it's impression on another, even when both are being objective and fair in their ratings.

2010-01-15 17:15:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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I would give my opinion if you allow me to This is been said many times in this forum, but there's a big difference between what we think deserves 5 stars and what the community rates 5 stars. There are thousands of little kids rating levels out there. I've played hundreds of levels that in my opinion could be 5 stars, or top ranked. But at the same time, I'm coincident that those levels have no chance to become highest ranked, because children wouldn't rate it that high. I'll put my experience on it to try to explain it. When I published Hell's Angels, honestly, I wasn't expecting to get 5 stars. I was convinced it would drop to 4 stars sooner or later. It didn't, and I couldn't understand why, but now I can. I call them "fast food" levels. Hell's Angels and Hell's Angels 2 are "fast food" levels. No complications just run away and jump, some impacting visuals, maybe some humor... etc. Kids love this. My daughter (4) loves it. Just have a look at the highest ranked pages... its all "fast food". Something similar happened with the Bunker. When I first released it in February, it got 4 stars. Many comments were saying it was too hard. I was watching the heart/play ratio very carefully by that time, and the ratio was getting better the easier I was making the level in every update. It finally ended up in a totally-easy version, which was getting a heart for every 3 plays. I finally republished it, and it became top ranked. Am I proud of it? Not too much. Did I feel better with my level being top ranked? I did for sometime, but after a few months I nearly desired to leave that position. I've done levels for all types of public. Do you imagine a level like "The Miracle of Life" in highest ranked, being played by thousands of kids... etc? No, this is not a level to be there. And the same for many other good levels I've played. Another thing is the "cheating the system" trick. My only trick, and this is something I've done only since "Hell's Angels 2", is to publish locked, and put a key at the end of your other levels. What do you get with that? You're making a selective search for average players. Only those who finished one of your other levels are able to rate your new creation. I think this is the least you can do for your new level. And that doesn't assure you anything; the level can drop to 4 stars anyway. I've only been really interested once in getting a 5 star rating, and I asked some of my friends to help me rate 5 stars, but it dropped to 4. That's how it goes. Thanks!

2010-01-15 20:15:00 Author: poms Posts: 383

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@Poms - Hilariously enough, I like to make my levels moderately challenging because I hate kids and couldn't really care **** one. Haha! Aren't I cruel? ^_^ Honestly, four stars means more to me than five stars. Strange, huh? Everyone wants to be highest rated. Thanks to kids, that's almost impossible. Then again, we can offer more of those "fast-food" levels but soon they'll turn cheap.

2010-01-15 20:42:00 Author: KoRnDawwg Posts: 1424

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I had a 5 star level once and deleted it, to republish it because it didn't have enough plays way back in the day nothing's ever good enough heh. I like poms and jack's levels, and I can see easily why they maintain their stats consecutively. It IS based a little on those first big hits that get them recognized, and cemented on highest rated, but to please any kind of fanbase and keep them coming back is a hard thing to do. To impress them more each time with new stuff is even harder. Same goes for an author like mdaj or steve_big_guns... IMO... just the right consistency of elements, consistency in quality, and timing.

2010-01-15 20:43:00 Author: Unknown User

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consistency in quality, and timing. Yes, some good points. I have no doubt that there ARE some levels that are 5-star rated that deserve it (and even more that aren't that SHOULD be). I'm not too worried about the flawed ratings system, and how some kids will rate low, or even how all ratings are subjective. My point was the possible deception to the community from people who aren't happy with the status of their level, so continue to republish until the ratings matches their own expectation. Should we all do this? I think not.

2010-01-15 20:53:00 Author: MrsSpookyBuz Posts: 1492

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Actually your input is quite welcome on this, given that you've seen firsthand how the ratings system generates some of these 5-stars. I find this very interesting, and pretty much confirms what I've thought all along - that levels designed to appeal to a younger audience are typically the most successful, regardless of whether the level is polished or well directed or whatever. Certainly watching my 12-year old neighbor play LBP I can see that the fast food formula is successful - no doubt Ramp is an extreme example of this. Being wrapped up with the LBPC community, largely comprised of the older players, I think its easy to forget just how much of the general LBP community is made up of kids. Vast majority is my guess. We see our members publishing premium content and can easily be discouraged by a ratings system that doesn't fit our expectations. So at the end of the day, there's no point in concerning yourself with getting 5-star ratings. Furthermore, as you said Poms, its sort of an empty reward ultimately, even if it makes you feel good for a short period of time. I don't ever see myself getting a 5-star rating, because I make levels that appeal to me and the LBPC community, not so much kids. Shadow Moses was downright punishing in difficulty and I'm surprised at times the rating didn't drop to 3 because of it. Based on the scoreboard entries, it's obvious few people finish the level, and I'd be wiling those that do are probably in their teens and up.

2010-01-15 20:58:00 Author: Thegide Posts: 1465

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Yes, some good points. I have no doubt that there ARE some levels that are 5-star rated that deserve it (and even more that aren't that SHOULD be). I'm not too worried about the flawed ratings system, and how some kids will rate low, or even how all ratings are subjective. My point was the possible deception to the community from people who aren't happy with the status of their level, so continue to republish until the ratings matches their own expectation. Should we all do this? I think not. Definitely not... when I get back, I'm stilll going to make what I like first, what I think is cool, and hope for the best, expect the worst, and do like always. I'll probably still get kind of frustrated, and just put all that into pushing myself to exceed my own expectations. If you love your level, what more can you get out of it... I think back to Excite Bike - the whole reason to make your own track, was because you could have a race how you wanted it. Tons of big jumps, or whatever you thought was fun and would be cool.

2010-01-15 21:08:00 Author: Unknown User

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Do what Biddle666 does, delete and republish your level until you have a 5 star rating. Lame.

2010-01-16 14:25:00 Author: BlahYourHamster Posts: 177

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I agree with what Pom's said, and definately agree that many of the 5 star levels are "fast food" - they generally can be played by kids fairly easily, have a subject that impresses them, and mature people will not generally rate them down because they appreciate decent quality. Also, those who mention cheating.... you can cheat a level to a 5 star rating, but once it's in the top of highest rated if it's difficult it will be rated down VERY quickly. Right now, Lunar Lander is 5 star rated - however only because I kept it at minimal plays and out of highest rated so only people who would enjoy it would give it a shot (which at this point has built up a grand total of 3 "fans".... TheJollyRajah, TripleTremelo, and SpookyBuz ) I have a formula to tell how well a level will be rated: I have my 8-year-old son play it. If he cries...3 stars. If he can play it but doesn't enjoy it that much, 4 stars. If he loves it.... 5 stars. Based on this, I treat ratings with a grain of salt. I love levels of all types and don't judge by rating or hearts.

2010-01-17 00:40:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Has anyone noticed the increasing amount of locked levels in highest ranked pages? Mmmmh...

2010-01-17 18:45:00 Author: poms Posts: 383

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Your Miracle of Life level is on there, that's one of the reasons your levels maintain their high ratings.

2010-01-17 19:34:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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Obvioulsy you're not my greatest fan isn't it? yeah, all my levels should be 4 stars, but as I cheat all the time I get 5 stars with my crappy levels. Did you know The Miracle of Life and Hell's Angels 2 were moderated? Should I unlock Miracle of Life and leave it in cool pages to become moderated again? I've already sayd in several forums that the key is in any of my other levels. Yeah, I know it's in 1st page of highest ranked pages and that's maybe unbearable for you, but I'll keep it locked untill it's time in cool pages has expired. And stop blasfeming about me, buddy. All my levels have always been unlocked and have spent its time in cool pages, whatever rating thery have, it's the rating the comunity gave them.

2010-01-17 21:07:00 Author: poms Posts: 383

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Hey guys, let's try and calm down. There's no sense reading into ratings from one perspective or the other. The factors that go into a level receiving the rating that it does are too great to fully understand. No sense arguing pointlessly over it.

2010-01-18 00:51:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Lol, you get mad because I tell the truth, and I don't think the Bunker is a 4 star level, 3 is more like it.

2010-01-18 06:36:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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Lol, you get mad because I tell the truth, and I don't think the Bunker is a 4 star level, 3 is more like it. Using which criteria, comparing pom's level to which..? You might be telling your truth; ratings are all about opinion, there is no such thing as objective & perfect ratings. Keeping that in mind, don't claim the right to judge -and to have your judgment accepted- in such a way. And by the way, poms, the bunker is for me a 5 star level if we put it in the "context" it was released. 4 stars at most if we compare it to nowadays best levels. -Back on topic, the rating system is "sad" overall. Levels get rated by the wrong audience, and people abuse it in oh so many ways. If such ratings worked generally, well, better, I would see as "immoral" using tricks to keep your level 5 stars when it is not, since you would be actually stepping over better levels. But being the rating system as messed up as it is, I don't think that you are going to do much harm by using such strategies. I mean, you can't kill a corpse, right? Unless it rebirths and you shot it. Again.

2010-01-18 08:17:00 Author: Keldur Posts: 628

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Lol, am I not aloud to have an opinion? I honestly do think The Bunker is a 3 Star level, the recycled gameplay, the average visuals, and the use of many MM objects is not what I rate 5 Stars, ever. Now you think it's a 5 Star level, go ahead and think that, I don't care or will question your opinion, don't question mine.

2010-01-18 16:02:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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Ummmm..... but if no one questions other people's opinions and only THINKS about opinions, this wouldn't be much of a forum, now would it? Obviously, people rate based on completely different criteria. I can TOTALLY see why The Bunker is 5 star - it's fun, and most people really enjoy it. Same with JwwPhoto's Baja level. And isn't that the whole point of LBP, to create fun? I think its a mistake to take this out of the equation - there are certain creators who have a special talent to create levels that are unbelievably fun... the platforming isn't frustrating, the subject matter appeals to everyone, the point bubble collection is just right and doesn't feel overdone, and the decorations are done in a way that really look spot-on. Whether the level is completely original or uses a few MM objects doesn't matter to the vast rating public... who are mostly kids that want to have FUN. And also, aren't MOST levels in LittleBigPlanet recycled gameplay? I mean.... how many levels are there that you AREN'T running, jumping, and flying, and shooting around a platforming level with a sackboy?

2010-01-18 20:14:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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And also, aren't MOST levels in LittleBigPlanet recycled gameplay? I mean.... how many levels are there that you AREN'T running, jumping, and flying, and shooting around a platforming level with a sackboy? Even the ones where you aren't doing typical LBP things are recycled from other games, an attempt to emulate a different game. I don't think I've really seen a concept in LBP that I've never seen before.... Well, I'm convinced. Time to throw in the towel everyone, this game is officially pointless

2010-01-18 20:18:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I would have to say that most of the time, the levels that are carefully and painstakingly made are great 5 star levels but some people, if they die, rate it a piece of crap. I would have to say I like simple fun and random levels...

2010-01-18 21:31:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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Sure creating is about fun, I honestly do try to not take this game seriously but I find it hard when I see others who try as hard as possible to garner as much attention as they can and will do anything to get it.

2010-01-19 01:22:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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There is no way to "cheat" in lbp. Cheating is rating someones level that is 5 stars 1 star. Thats cheating if i ever saw it. That is why some peoples levels that "deserve" 5 stars, do not get 5 stars. It is a game and it is full of haters and jealous people. That don't think YOU deserve anything. I have said this before. If you think you "deserve" 5 stars. Then don't give up. If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen.

2010-01-19 01:47:00 Author: fijski8 Posts: 159

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Thats not neccisarily cheating, its lieing pretty much...

2010-01-19 13:20:00 Author: Emogotsaone Posts: 1030

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cheating is a form of lying. and ive experienced this SO muchwith my Mythicos levels. Each and everyone of them have, at launch, recieved a 1 star rating... somebody. some little S*** is watching my levels. and eventually, as i gain plays, my ratings go up and down, and have all leveled out at 4 stars... but would one have gotten 5 stars if everyone rated honestly, and not like little degenerate jerks? i have no idea...

2010-01-20 01:40:00 Author: poorjack Posts: 1806

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I absolutely agree with you, and I have experienced the same. But if you tell this here, you're in risk that Mr."Youdeserve-youdon'tdeserve" calls you paranoic

2010-01-20 02:08:00 Author: poms Posts: 383

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i know im paranoid. but all paranoia has a cause and a root... the root of my paranoia is some lil bas***d who hates levels with any depth.

2010-01-20 05:31:00 Author: poorjack Posts: 1806

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Well, I'm convinced. Time to throw in the towel everyone, this game is officially pointless Well, sure. All games are pointless, in the end. So stop being philosophical about it and get back to creating! *whip*

2010-01-20 09:43:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Yea i totally agree Well your always going to get haters and the levels which actually deserve 5 stars obviously won't get it unless they maybe lock and use the key method...

2010-02-05 17:02:00 Author: XXGrEEn0Xx Posts: 75

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i like hard levels, gives you a challenge to try and overcome, and gives you a sence of achevement when you do. the levels i've been making resently have been modiretly hard, but worth it. young kids will just leave if a level gets yo hard for them, and probably rate it bad to... it leems lbp's intrest has shifted from great levels, to crappy bomb and shark survival lvls. the cool levels pages are just littered with bad levels and unorigonal idea's... and its just inposible for anything good to break through.

2010-02-07 20:24:00 Author: ptwob Posts: 99

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my tutorial level has managed to sustain 5 stars ever since launch which as seen as it was my 1st level was great

2010-02-07 20:29:00 Author: alex Posts: 141

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I had a five star level for a long time that finally dropped to 4. All my other levels are 4 except one, which is not really a true level. I am happy with that. But I do see so many really bad levels rated 5 stars which means to me that people are yankin the system. I think it's a shame, but I feel truly blessed to have found this community of Gadders who truly just enjoy creating and learning from each other!

2010-02-08 17:22:00 Author: Aselrahc Posts: 185

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Well, I'm convinced. Time to throw in the towel everyone, this game is officially pointless Wow, I hope you don't throw in the towel, I really love your logic pieces!!

2010-02-08 17:32:00 Author: Aselrahc Posts: 185

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