Archive: 40 posts

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It's by Vandz called "All About the Cool Pages" something or another. It's on page one, so you shouldn't have a hard time finding it. If you're lazy like me, basically he says that the system is flawed because the cool pages system counts replays into whatever formula is used to determine a level's position, and other stuff most of us using the forums already know, but your average lbp player doesn't. He makes a really strong point by answering three questions in the level, and you have to restart to get all three answered, showing how these replays have placed him at the front of the pages. So what do you guys think about it? I have mixed feelings, I agree with what he's saying, but by exploiting the system he's just as bad as the bomb survival guys. Hopefully, though, MM will notice all the support he's getting (check the comments) and do something about this finally.

2010-01-02 01:03:00 Author: thekevinexpress Posts: 256

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vandz is a she, and i think the whole thing is stupid. without the replay count there wouldn't be a cool pages,and ive been trying to tell vandz that the whole thing is stupid because MM doesnt even look at levels unless theyre moderated, but she wont listen and she thinks this is actually going to work. shes getting nowhere with this she shouldve just emailed MM but no, and everyone else on lbp thinks its going to work too but its her loss when it doesnt

2010-01-02 01:09:00 Author: Charlemagne Posts: 513

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vandz is a she, and i think the whole thing is stupid. without the replay count there wouldn't be a cool pages,and ive been trying to tell vandz that the whole thing is stupid because MM doesnt even look at levels unless theyre moderated, but she wont listen and she thinks this is actually going to work. Oops. :blush: I always assume gamers are male, it's a really bad habit, judging from the amount of women on the forums. I don't know if it's gonna work, I don't think it will, but it would be nice if MM just took out replays in the cool pages formula.

2010-01-02 01:12:00 Author: thekevinexpress Posts: 256

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Yeah I played this level the other day, and for the most part I do agree. I think MM shouldn't stop counting replays when it comes to the levels "plays," but I also think they should stop counting replays as a progression on the Cool Pages, the current system is obviously broken. They should also block old levels that have already had their place on the Cool Pages in the past....

2010-01-02 01:14:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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vandz is a she, and i think the whole thing is stupid. without the replay count there wouldn't be a cool pages,and ive been trying to tell vandz that the whole thing is stupid because MM doesnt even look at levels unless theyre moderated, but she wont listen and she thinks this is actually going to work. shes getting nowhere with this she shouldve just emailed MM but no, and everyone else on lbp thinks its going to work too but its her loss when it doesnt Your quite a **** aren't you? You come here saying things like they're gospel, when they're not, I happen to know Mm play levels, and How do you know it's not going to work? Do you have some sort of higher intelligence? NO! Vandz can do whatever she wants, because I know that slot of skilled creators are backing this Kernelm

2010-01-02 01:19:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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replays are important to the system, although the system doesn't handle them right,, I think every replay should count as a fraction (in the system not actual plays) with every replay losing value so that a good levels 1-5 plays per person will count for more but a bombs survivals 1-10 plays won't count so much. What I mean is this way one person playing a level a second or third time wont count as much as a different person playing for the first time. Back to the topic of a petition, i don't disagree with the idea but petitions are usually for getting support so that you can shove it into who it may concerns face without having to go through everyone else, MM is a small elite team and most of us know that, emailing them may be a better way to handle this.

2010-01-02 01:30:00 Author: Littlebigdude805 Posts: 1924

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Your quite a **** aren't you? You come here saying things like they're gospel, when they're not, I happen to know Mm play levels, and How do you know it's not going to work? Do you have some sort of higher intelligence? NO! Vandz can do whatever she wants, because I know that slot of skilled creators are backing this Kernelm is cussing really necessary? dont be such a negative nancy i have my reasons.naming one, the last "petition" didnt work did it? exactly, this one isnt going to work either

2010-01-02 01:44:00 Author: Charlemagne Posts: 513

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Tell you what - why don't we ALL try to be a bit nicer to each other? How about that? Bloody hell, people are starving. People are being killed in wars. LBP is a GAME - get over your *filtered* differences. Here's an idea - make FRIENDS, have FUN. If you can't, then Foxtrot Oscar somewhere else.

2010-01-02 01:50:00 Author: MrsSpookyBuz Posts: 1492

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Don't you tell me to foxtrot oscar

2010-01-02 01:55:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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Don't you tell me to foxtrot oscar I can, and I did!

2010-01-02 01:57:00 Author: MrsSpookyBuz Posts: 1492

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oh no she di'nt

2010-01-02 01:59:00 Author: Littlebigdude805 Posts: 1924

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Oh Its on spooky it's on!

2010-01-02 02:00:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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- Just too many threads about the Cool Level Pages. - Most change proposed in those would never lead anywhere. - Most people wanting change don't have great replacement ideas (wich is a basic to make an opinion about changing something becoming valid) - Media Molecule probably can't change the game as you think they could - We take this game seriously WAY MORE than them too. - It's so broken to the core that the Cool Level Pages will never be "fixed" and will never please to everybody .

2010-01-02 02:13:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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The guy has too much time on his hands, and by letting the word out he has made it worse.

2010-01-02 06:40:00 Author: Jrange378 Posts: 573

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Well, I doubt it can get worse really lol .

2010-01-02 06:42:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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i saw that...yah Mm won't fix it for everyone

2010-01-02 07:03:00 Author: theswweet Posts: 2468

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No more petitions even if they have good points, it's like cars: They get you places, but pollute the air. No more topics, too many topics and there is still no change. 1 SIMPLE Suggestion instead of a whole biography. Here's one: Remove the system all together and leave the Newest levels as the new Main Page.

2010-01-02 07:14:00 Author: FreeFlyzz Posts: 265

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Remove the system all together and leave the Newest levels as the new Main Page. I don't like that idea whenever i see the newest levels it's always "H4H" "50 jumps can you make it?" "Unamed level" i've only ever seen one good level in the newest levels....EVER

2010-01-02 10:59:00 Author: Doopz Posts: 5592

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Removing replays from the play count probably would actually fix everything. The only reason bomb survivals and 50 hardest jump levels or whatever get on the cool pages is because most people are going to play them more than once. Obviously that makes it unfair, because regular levels are never going to get as many plays, but as soon as anyone finds themselves in a bad regular level they'll probaly quit or at least definately won't reply it, which is why few of those ever make the cool pages. So, although petitions never work, hopefully there's a chance Mm sees it, or at least realises that it would be the best way to sort the cool pages out.

2010-01-02 11:12:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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Removing replays from the play count probably would actually fix everything. The only reason bomb survivals and 50 hardest jump levels or whatever get on the cool pages is because most people are going to play them more than once. Obviously that makes it unfair, because regular levels are never going to get as many plays, but as soon as anyone finds themselves in a bad regular level they'll probaly quit or at least definately won't reply it, which is why few of those ever make the cool pages. I don't think that it would really fix the system; if that was to be done, the cool pages would be mostly affected by ratings and hearts, and we all know that ratings don't tend to show how good a level is. My 5 cents about it would be to separate restarts from replays. If you come trough a really good non-survival level, you won't restart it just afterwards playing it; you'll simply play it and then come back to it again, because you want to show it to friends or simply play it again. In the other hands, in my opinion, restarts shouldn't count, or as it has been proposed, they should only count like this: 1rst play = 1 play, 1rt restart = 0,5 plays, 2nd restart = 0,25 plays,... and so on. That would kind of fix, or at least improve cool pages -I believe- but only god or Mm knows if that would work! So, although petitions never work, hopefully there's a chance Mm sees it, or at least realises that it would be the best way to sort the cool pages out.

2010-01-02 11:39:00 Author: Keldur Posts: 628

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I think it would work alot better than the current system. She makes a fair point in the level. I'm sick and tired of appalling bomb survival levels sitting on the front page all the time. When will peoples fasination with them end? Apparently never, so I'm all for an overhaul. Its not like any decent levels will suffer.

2010-01-02 11:50:00 Author: chimpskylark Posts: 335

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what point in having plays if you dont have a Level if he was next to me right now ill give him a kick up the a*$ I say game plays the right way same go for hearts

2010-01-02 12:08:00 Author: jump_button Posts: 1014

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Removing the replays won't get you anywhere. The Cool level pages will still be crap. Why? Pretty simple: If they don't rely on replays anymore they will only rely on ratings and hearts. The rating system IS broken and the hearting system misused (and currently broken anyways because of a bug since leerdammer). This would result in bad Cool Level pages and you people would still complain. People don't rate properly and are forced to do so. Crap out there is still highly rated and great levels often receive a 3 stars. This would not make them more apparent in the Cool Level Pages. Also, there's already a "highest rated" page so no need to repeat it. The thing that would TRULY change things around would be to add 2 mandatory fields in the levels' info page: "Difficulty" and "Genre". People would have to chose from a choice of answers for each field. When you click on community, you would have to chose wich difficulty and genre you're looking for and then your Cool Level Pages would pop. Difficulty and Genre would also become search criterias when you click "search". They could even had a setting in your profile for your "default Cool level pages settings" and you would not need to chose a genre and difficulty everything. Why does this solve everything? Easy to see. When you publish your platformer level, it would be competing with platformer levels. You would rise in the platformers' cool level pages basically. Your level would not be buried under deep because there's thousands of bomb survivals. Your hard level would get its chance too because it would compete with hard levels and would be played by people who were looking for a challenge. And what would this solve as a bonus? The ratings. Star rating would become ALOT more representative because since people will be able to find the experience they want to play alot more easily, the right person will have more chances to fall on your level and rate it properly. If you make a hard level and it succeeds, people that were looking for a challenge will rate it because it succeeded in what it was supposed to be. It succeeded in what they were looking for. Seriously guys, think about this all. It's also realistic to implement in the game for Media Molecule. It is the only real solution imo. Replays not counting will not bring us more good because we would suffer the fact ratings are broken anyways. And bigger changes that what I propose are EXTREMELY because you're not redoing a game after it's released you know.

2010-01-02 14:43:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Actually i think removing replays would do a lot. imagine what levels we won't see on the cool pages! A lot of levels which are on the cool pages are there because people know replay counts and will get their level easy on the cool pages and so they abuse that. A rating based on heart & plays is way more fair than a rating based on play, hearts and re-plays imho. I think a rating based on plays, hearts & play/heart ratio could work pretty good. My most popular level is a level i didn't tell anyone about, it has 50k plays and it didn't reach that because it's "good" (my other levels have about 5k plays, but are all spotlighed ) I'm not sure if that suggestion of a difficulty & genre would really work, LBP is a platformer, it's REALLY hard to put a level into a "category", certainly when 8 out of 10 levels are basicly "platformers" and lots of people their goal is to make a level that doesn't fit into a category. Having fields where you have to answers questions after each level.. i dunno, i hope you're not forced to do that because it sounds even more annoying then being forced to give a rating cheers, misty

2010-01-02 15:38:00 Author: Mother-Misty Posts: 574

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Ye but guys if you think about it the cool levels page gets levels that have been published based on either the name or busiest. For example i published my vault level the other day and it was called "The Vault". Once i published it i decided to play some cool levels so i went on the cool levels page and there was my level, its had 18 plays since then and its only a room FTW. My point being that the cool levels page dosent only take in the amounts of replays it takes in a whole lot more than that.

2010-01-02 15:46:00 Author: lbpholic Posts: 1304

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Actually i think removing replays would do a lot. imagine what levels we won't see on the cool pages! A lot of levels which are on the cool pages are there because people know replay counts and will get their level easy on the cool pages and so they abuse that. A rating based on heart & plays is way more fair than a rating based on play, hearts and re-plays imho. I think a rating based on plays, hearts & play/heart ratio could work pretty good. My most popular level is a level i didn't tell anyone about, it has 50k plays and it didn't reach that because it's "good" (my other levels have about 5k plays, but are all spotlighed ) I'm not sure if that suggestion of a difficulty & genre would really work, LBP is a platformer, it's REALLY hard to put a level into a "category", certainly when 8 out of 10 levels are basicly "platformers" and lots of people their goal is to make a level that doesn't fit into a category. Having fields where you have to answers questions after each level.. i dunno, i hope you're not forced to do that because it sounds even more annoying then being forced to give a rating cheers, misty You're not doing it for the levels like tags, it would be in the level info page. You know where you put the title, the description and the level icon? It would be there. You would chose a category and difficulty level for your stuff only once. Example of genres: -Survival challenge -Pure platformer -Story based -High score challenge -Exploration / Multi path -Multiplayer required Example of difficulty: -Very Easy -Easy -Normal -Hard -Hardcore It would be a tuff task to classify stuff more in order to help people find the experience they want to have. Also, things being easier like would push more people into playing community stuff. MANY gamers out there are annoyed by the cool level pages. It's hard to find good stuff from the community as it is right now except if you're a LBP savvy, go on forums, etc. Also, right now your heart/play ration DOES count for the Cool level pages. It's not just plays that make the level climb. And to me, play MATTER in telling how good a level can be. A successful survival challenge for instance is a level having alot of plays after all. And then if the rating is good on top of having many plays, it's a success. It should be on top. The real problem with the cool pages is that some levels are always burying other types of levels into oblivion because some level genres are bound to have more plays. Why do you think it's the survival challenges that always win? It's because it's in the nature of this kind of level to have more plays. If survival challenges would compete with other survival challenges, they wouldn't dig a hole for every other kind of levels anymore. Also, the fact you want to replay a level is also a sign the level is good. This should be considered too because it means the level is quality. Removing the plays in counting your popularity would go against quality in some ways while my solution can't possibly go against quality in any way. .

2010-01-02 15:56:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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You're not doing it for the levels like tags, it would be in the level info page. You know where you put the title, the description and the level icon? It would be there. You would chose a category and difficulty level for your stuff only once. Oh, i thought the player had to do that, not the author, my fault. Also, right now your heart/play ration DOES count for the Cool level pages. .I know it does count, but togheter with re-plays. I was talking about a not counting replays in the formula. The real problem with the cool pages is that some levels are always burying other types of levels into oblivion because some level genres are bound to have more plays. Why do you think it's the survival challenges that always win? It's because it's in the nature of this kind of level to have more plays. .Indeed, but that was my whole point If you don't count them, you won't have that problem i think. cheers, misty

2010-01-02 16:17:00 Author: Mother-Misty Posts: 574

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Incredibly huge chunk of text I do agree completely with what you said, you do envision cool pages as I do; genres is definetely the best solution around. However, I don't think it would benefit from so many dificculty types, just normal/hard or easy/normal/hard should be enough. I'd also propose ratings not to be mandatory, so that they become more fair. What is good about this system is that bomb survival lovers/creators could still do their thing without annoying anyone anymore, and if a level was to be put in a wrong category, it simply wouldn't rise through it, so it wouldn't be a bother. Oh, how I wish that interface existed...

2010-01-02 16:25:00 Author: Keldur Posts: 628

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So you mean you would want a "heart / unique plays" ratio? Anyways, you bring me back to my other point. If we count out the replays, the system will rely more on ratings and hearts and the rating system right now is particularly broken. It's also too subjective to say "those are the best level". Cool levels would be just like now, filled the level that are the more ala mode, that the people play/like the most therefore rate highly. There's so many great levels out there with 3 stars rating that would never make the cool pages if we count out replays. Here again, those levels wouldn't be disadvantaged by my solution and the "ala mode" levels would compete with their own kind instead of removing chances for other style of levels to get recognised. Also, since the cool level pages would be a bit more fragmented by my solution, they probably could even let you more than 7 days in the sun. .

2010-01-02 16:26:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I could never choose the right difficulty. I know how everything reacts and now the precise timing for my jumps by the time I'm ready to publish a level. Can someone make a petition to speed up the corner edit tool? ^.^

2010-01-02 16:30:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Well I don't think a level being played a lot means it needs more exposure.

2010-01-02 16:31:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664

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Well I don't think a level being played a lot means it needs more exposure. It's not like that. What data would you based yourself on in order to determine wich level is the most popular? And algorythm created with the hearts, rating and plays is the right solution. That's what we have right now. The problem why there's crap stuff on first page depends from other things. By exposing different experiences to players in a more evident way, any type of level would have a fair chance under the sun. .

2010-01-02 16:38:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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And algorythm created with the hearts, rating and plays is the right solution. That's what we have right now. . That's not really what we have We have one based on hearts, ratings, plays and re-plays. I agree that we need one based on hearts, ratings & plays. cheers, misty

2010-01-02 16:49:00 Author: Mother-Misty Posts: 574

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It's not like that. What data would you based yourself on in order to determine wich level is the most popular? And algorythm created with the hearts, rating and plays is the right solution. That's what we have right now. The problem why there's crap stuff on first page depends from other things. By exposing different experiences to players in a more evident way, any type of level would have a fair chance under the sun. . Exactly. I think the algorithm is pretty darn accurate - but considering the wide variety of level types, gamer skills, and age groups 1 single cool pages really isn't enough. Unfortunately, the longer ALL players are subjected to a single big glop of cool page levels, the less effective it will be. Adults will eventually stop using it (if they haven't already) and the vast majority of people even looking for levels there will be kids who like simple, non-thinking, challenges.

2010-01-02 16:53:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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That's not really what we have We have one based on hearts, ratings, plays and re-plays. I agree that we need one based on hearts, ratings & plays. cheers, misty I'm sure the game doesn't make jack of a difference between "plays" and "replays". There are only "plays". .

2010-01-02 17:22:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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RangerZero, you're right! There should be a sort of option somewhere where you can change the genre to what kind of level you have. (An Off-Topic Suggestion) Instead of making the people determine the 3 Main Tags of the level you should be able to do that yourself, it would remove any bad Tags you get as one of the 3 Main Tags.

2010-01-02 17:41:00 Author: FreeFlyzz Posts: 265

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This is LBP! Cool Pages never will or have been 'Cool'

2010-01-02 20:56:00 Author: Plasmavore Posts: 1913

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RangerZero's genre system has but one flaw; human interaction. In his system, platformers would be competing against one another. But what's to stop a person from making a survival challenge, labeling it as a platformer, and publishing it in the platformer section? Are we going to rely on the broken moderation system to remove improperly-classified levels?

2010-01-03 03:51:00 Author: SLS10 Posts: 1129

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RangerZero's genre system has but one flaw; human interaction. In his system, platformers would be competing against one another. But what's to stop a person from making a survival challenge, labeling it as a platformer, and publishing it in the platformer section? Are we going to rely on the broken moderation system to remove improperly-classified levels? I can't imagine why someone would do that. It wouldn't really help it with plays or ratings, because if someone posted in the wrong place (not like if I thought they improperly described the difficulty or something stupid) I would downrate at least a little bit.

2010-01-03 05:56:00 Author: thekevinexpress Posts: 256

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RangerZero's genre system has but one flaw; human interaction. In his system, platformers would be competing against one another. But what's to stop a person from making a survival challenge, labeling it as a platformer, and publishing it in the platformer section? Are we going to rely on the broken moderation system to remove improperly-classified levels? This is not important because everything is always skewed by the human factor. The ratings are, the hearts are, the moderation is too. What's important is how much better is the new idea against the old one. Also, it's not in people's interest to write the wrong genre in their level info because if they do so, this will influence their rating. .

2010-01-03 06:48:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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