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Most advanced elevator.

Archive: 73 posts

I've been meaning to post this for a while.

My new multi-floor elevator design used in my level "Dead Memories"

Unlike most other multi-floor design that utilise 2 grab switches (One to ascend to the floor above and one to descend to the floor below) mine uses a system where the player can select any floor they wish and be taken directly to it.

No need to keep ascending one floor at a time until you get to the desired floor. You have complete freedom of where to stop, much like a real elevator. The original design also included a call switch on each floor but had to be removed due to thermo restraints in the published level.

I'm not aware of any other elevators of this type but if someone has created one it would be interesting to compare methods.		2009-12-30 06:38:00

Author:
Unknown User

Haven't seen anything like it, so I think your the first. Grats!2009-12-30 18:05:00

Author:
Testudini
Posts: 3262

Not that it hasn't been done before, I could think of a way to make it using a temp switch and slot of winches, but congratz!2009-12-30 18:47:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

woohoo! this has never been done before finally something new! 2009-12-30 21:15:00

Author:
Alec
Posts: 3871

Can't the same thing be achieved with two pistons and a stopper?

Basically have a switch at the first floor. If true, then the floor is skipped, since the second piston activates. if false, it stops there.

Though this seems epic. May we have images, please?		2009-12-30 23:57:00

Author:
Grimdour
Posts: 142

His system givers you the ability to go to the floor you want to, without having to stop at the other floors.

Ex: Your in floor 1 and want to get to floor 3. You make it go, and it doesnt stop at floor 2, but goes directly to floor 3. (According to him there are no other elevators that can simply skip a floor and go directly to the desired one)		2009-12-31 02:05:00

Author:
Fredrik94
Posts: 342

I didn't claim that mine was the first of this type. I just haven't come across any other 'floor select' elevator designs.

I'll create a 6 floor version when I have time to better demonstrate the logic involved.		2009-12-31 02:28:00

Author:
Unknown User

Am I the only one who's scared of all the logic?

Anyway, a tip would be to combine all your dark matter to one big board to save on thermo space.		2009-12-31 12:49:00

Author:
Grimdour
Posts: 142

The logic that is there, how many floors does that work for? And what sort of increase in components would you be looking at to extend it to more floors? Also, what is the interface to select the different floors? Is it just n buttons inside the lift?2009-12-31 12:52:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

I'm a big fan of elevators (the Logic Pack examples, Thegide's one motion elevator from Shadow Moses Site B, the one in Free At Last that I know I could rebuild better now )... so I think that's pretty awesome, but I'm betting there's a simpler way to do it. Wish I could check it out... anyway, very nice stuff.2009-12-31 16:25:00

Author:
Unknown User

i think its possible to do with n ands and n delays and a new mechanism, and my tap grab mechanism(not necesarry but it would mean only 1 grab point)2009-12-31 17:07:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

very well done, btw i played the level and it is superb, definetely five out of five. i recommend everyone else to try it.2010-01-01 00:35:00

Author:
horwitzer
Posts: 255

The logic I used in the level is pretty convoluted seeing as how it was a first prototype. I was content with actually having a working system and so didn't bother streamlining the logic.


The logic that is there, how many floors does that work for? And what sort of increase in components would you be looking at to extend it to more floors? Also, what is the interface to select the different floors? Is it just n buttons inside the lift?

The logic shown is for a four floor setup. Each new floor would mean increasing it by a small margin. The interface uses two grab switches: One to select a floor and a 'confirm' switch.


i think its possible to do with n ands and n delays and a new mechanism, and my tap grab mechanism(not necesarry but it would mean only 1 grab point)

The tap, hold switch would work well with this system but would further increase the logic needed as well as adding a latency delay.		2010-01-01 01:12:00

Author:
Unknown User

I'm impressed. However, that does look like a nightmarish amount of logic for a single elevator. Although it's exactly what I need for my current clan project, I'm a little nervous that a) it won't work out for me, and b) it'll take up all of the thermo.

Speaking of which, how much does that four-floor elevator + logic take on the thermo?		2010-01-01 04:54:00

Author:
Xenifus
Posts: 306

Yes, everyone play dead memories. Definitely 2010-01-01 05:03:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

The elevator plus logic took up around one unit of thermo. Although with a little streamlining could maybe be reduced by a third.

Included in that logic is it's ability to detect which floor it's on, which floor it's going to, the floor selection system, resets, failure proofing, and to make sure it stops dead flush with each floor.

The only limit to how many floors it can be modified to accomodate would be the thermometer.

Send me a PM if you want any additional info...		2010-01-01 05:37:00

Author:
Unknown User

I've only looked at the screenshots, and I must say that's quite a huge amount of impressive logic you got there. Nice job.2010-01-01 11:12:00

Author:
Recurracy
Posts: 166

Played the level; I say it's one of the best user-created levels I've ever played.
Hearted it, of course.

The elevator is brilliant.
I'm really interested in a copyable version with a speech bubble-walkthrough.
Is there any chance of you making a demonstation (copyable)- level for the elevator & the logics that make it work?		2010-01-03 20:15:00

Author:
ffha
Posts: 48

I may create a tutorial level when I'm finished with my current projects but it won't be copyable. I've learnt my lesson on that one.

Although the logic in the pic may look a tad complex, it's really not. Don't be misled by the mess of wiring.		2010-01-04 00:14:00

Author:
Unknown User

It would have been possibel to make with 1 percent as much logic lol XD2010-01-04 23:10:00

Author:
Unknown User

Well, I'm surprised rtm hasn't popped in yet, but if you use Dark Matter blockers, you can extend it to any number of floors with very little thermo effect. Myself, I made a 4 floor elevator that does it slightly different. If you grab the left/right of the elevator it will go up/down one floor. If you hold it down or press it again as you approach a new floor it will skip it. I used different length winches to achieve the effect (also some spiffy wheel logic). The elevator itself wasn't the complicated part, it was doors on the elevator. They would remain shut if you skipped a floor and would not close if you tried to go down when on the bottom floor or up on the top floor. The elevator only moves when the doors are shut (safety first!).

2010-01-04 23:18:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

It would have been possibel to make with 1 percent as much logic lol XD

lol! No it couldn't

How much experience do you have with logic? Ans with four flours, an ability to lock into the floor, and so many extra detection features and safelocks I'd say it's a pretty big accomplishment. You could minimize logic a bit, but barely.		2010-01-04 23:20:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

You could minimize logic a bit, but barely.

Oh, really? Lol. I'll be back in a while with some photos.		2010-01-04 23:20:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

I spoke too soon XD. D'oh!2010-01-04 23:27:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

Like I said, the logic is a tad convoluted but at the time was happy I had it working how I wanted it.

It wouldn't be too hard to reduce the amount of logic used but to reduce it to 1% is a blatant exaggeration. Some of that logic is failureproofing (disabling the switches while the elevator is in motion etc) All in all, the logic, elevator, door mechanisms etc took up a little less than 1 'unit' of thermo.

I would be interested in getting your opinion on the design and seeing how you'd go about streamlining the logic Comph. 		2010-01-04 23:48:00

Author:
Unknown User

Just curious, what's the interface you use for the lift? You said it can take you to any floor, but I have a hard time believing you put 4 grab switches in there. Stickers?2010-01-04 23:59:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Two grab switches, one on either side. Tap the one on the left to cycle through the floors (signified by lights above the elevator)

Once you've selected a floor tap the switch on the right to close the doors and the elevator will take you to the floor you selected.		2010-01-05 00:04:00

Author:
Unknown User

Two grab switches, one on either side. Tap the one on the left to cycle through the floors (signified by lights above the elevator)

Once you've selected a floor tap the switch on the right to close the doors and the elevator will take you to the floor you selected.

Aha. Nice. Using that method, I think I can reduce the logic down significantly! It's actually more thermofficient than what I was using, since it had to do the calculations all on the fly. I'm actually thinking 3-4 logic gates is all it would take. The method is stacked motor bolt incremental wheels (woot) and variable length pistons.

I'm not sure how interested you are, but here are the threads for each of those things:

Variable Length Pistons (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=16124)

Incremental Bolts (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=19915)		2010-01-05 00:18:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

I've had a tinker with incremental bolts before but could never get them working how I wanted, nice to see someone figured it out. I just used a simple 4 output T-Latch. (I think that's the name)

I could have a go at reducing the logic but at this point it'd be purely for experimentation. I have no need to use this system again anytime soon.

The system originally contained call switches on each floor that would need to bypass the floor selection system and any contextual logic gates in oreder to be triggered, but I had to omit these from the level in order to fit everything in.		2010-01-05 00:44:00

Author:
Unknown User

Well, if your doors work properly, you shan't need call switches, lol. I may not get a chance to work on it tonight. I'm stuck at home for the holidays and my little brother is holding down the TV.2010-01-05 00:48:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

lol, fair enough...

The need for call switches arose in multiplayer. Because the elevator stops dead flush with each floor I couldn't use a player switch to make sure everyone was inside and because it uses only the back layer, some players can be left behind if the confirm switch is triggered while they're not inside.

I just added and infinite checkpoint inside it instead, seems to work.		2010-01-05 01:00:00

Author:
Unknown User

But you can use an MGS spotlight... 2010-01-05 01:27:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

OMFG, never even occured to me to use the spotlight. I'll have a play around later on. Thanks.2010-01-05 02:21:00

Author:
Unknown User

Cool elevator! Though i think i can make a more simple version... but that could just be me and my crazy thinking..

Will get back to you on that..



Aha. Nice. Using that method, I think I can reduce the logic down significantly! It's actually more thermofficient than what I was using, since it had to do the calculations all on the fly. I'm actually thinking 3-4 logic gates is all it would take. The method is stacked motor bolt incremental wheels (woot) and variable length pistons.

I'm not sure how interested you are, but here are the threads for each of those things:

Variable Length Pistons (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=16124)

Incremental Bolts (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=19915)

Wiiiee! people are talking about my solution

Though i'm not sure about the stacked bolts way of doing it. I tested it out some before christmas, and got som very uneven results.. after a couple of turns it would start moving more/less out of its exact movements.
Think it's because of the bolts can't hold their position when the other one is turned. especially the front bolt when the back one is turned. I dont know about you guys but this worries me a bit.

Have you been having the same problems comph?

BTW: this should maybe be placed in my thread...		2010-01-05 07:32:00

Author:
Tamland
Posts: 106

Assassin's Creed 2 is holding me back from seeing this. But, if you would put up a tutorial I would like to feel stupid 2010-01-05 07:56:00

Author:
thefrozenpenquin
Posts: 479

I suck, my attempt spiralled out of thermo control, So i salute you sir!2010-01-05 08:54:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

This is really interesting well done.2010-01-05 11:11:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

Well, I didn't have a whole lot of time last night, but if I temporarily neglect the doors, I can make it switch between 6 floors perfectly using a very low-thermo solution. Sorry to be vague, but I'll try to work on it some more.2010-01-05 13:00:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

I tinkered around and put together a 6 floor version that will only operate if all players are inside. You can also swap floor selections while the elevator is in motion. The elevator will take you to the newly selected floor instead.

It's still a tad logic heavy but around a third less thermo than my last attempt even with 2 extra floors and barely fills the thermo past the first bar.

I think I'll leave the tutorial for a bit. Comph might be onto something and if he wants to divulge his method, the tutorial should be for the most efficient design.		2010-01-05 17:39:00

Author:
Unknown User

This is absolutely fabulous! I love stuff like this. Theoretically, LBP logic programming can be used to do anything, but for most of us, we lack the understanding of circuit building well enough to accomplish tasks like this.

Great job and a huge improvement over the best elevator systems I've seen so far!		2010-01-05 18:11:00

Author:
Thegide
Posts: 1465

I've done something like this in the Past, Except mine was all about Timing

It was Basically a Magnetic Key Switch, & Emitters - Each having there own Lifetimes, Depending on the Exact time it took to get to the Floor! I started with two Floors, Then Ended up have 26! & There were so Many pieces of Poly. Around, I Couldn't remember which took to What floor!		2010-01-05 22:29:00

Author:
Nurolight
Posts: 918

Perfected the new design. I think this is about as low thermo as I can get, although Comph or RTM could probably make it even more efficient.

Features:

6 Floor selection system
Completely failureproof
Ability to change floor selection on the fly smoothly and with virtually zero latency, even when the elevator is in motion.		2010-01-06 00:03:00

Author:
Unknown User

Holy stacked pistons, Batman! Just curious, how do you control the lift if the player jumps out? Doors? I was able to do six floors very efficiently, but it has no failure safety yet. Mine can be done on the fly super efficiently, but it really depends on what you are looking to create. I have no confirm button, but it can be added easily (at detriment to the simplicity of the logic).

Tomorrow I'll get another shot at it.

2010-01-06 02:28:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Yeah, hitting the confirm button closes the doors as long as you select a floor other than the one you're on. The doors take 2 secs to close and if a player jumps out at the last minute they'll open again and the elevator will reset, preventing players being left behind

I may still put an inf checkpoint in just incase the players decide to do something silly (like mass suicide while the elevator is moving) 		2010-01-06 02:35:00

Author:
Unknown User

I made a 3 floor elevator, except of using grab switches, I used sticker switches. You place a sticker on the floor you would like to go and then it takes you regardless of the floor your on. I will see if I can do something similar to your grab to select and grab to confirm. Ill play your level as soon as I get on LBP.2010-01-06 05:43:00

Author:
Unknown User

I gave up trying to make your version of an elevator and instead made something slightly different. It has two grab switches, one for up, one for down. Upon grabbing either, the doors close and it will switch one floor. As you approach a new floor, tapping grab again will allow you to skip the floor.

The beauty of it is that floors can be added seemlessly wherever you want along the elevator's path. I know people aren't fans of stopping the elevator with magnetic key switches on the floor, but I got it to work wonderfully. The reason I'm happy with it is because it is failure safe, in that if the player jumps out of the elevator before the door closes, the doors will open again and the elevator will not move. Also, if you are on the top/bottom floor and you press the button to go further up or further down, nothing will happen.

I could publish it in a tech demo level, but I think I may turn it into an actual level. If anyone wants to check it out, feel free to join me... Just let me know what's up when you do so (I tend to hermit in create mode).

Here's a few photos:

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=541&pictureid=10099

This is all of the logic. Sorry for the jumbly mess... I do that to save thermo. All it takes to add a new floor is to drop one of these down:

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=541&pictureid=10100

The double keys are necessary as there is a slight delay due to logic latency when going in either direction. The switch stops halfways in between (it's attached to the elevator).

http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=541&pictureid=10101

And this is temporarily what the elevator looks like. It's a bit too small so I will have to remake it, methinks.

2010-01-06 23:37:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

That's a hell of alot less logic than my design. Most of the logic in my system is for the elevator to detect where it is in relation to the destination floor so it knows whether to travel up or down. There is still a bit of a lag in changing floors on the fly while descending due to the keyswitch radius.

I'll put up the level as a tech demo now		2010-01-07 00:21:00

Author:
Unknown User

That's a hell of alot less logic than my design.

Haha, Looking at it again I am amazed I got it to work with two Quick-Reset Delays, Four Set-Reset Switches, and two AND gates. Heh.

I won't be able to check out your elevator until tomorrow. 		2010-01-07 00:36:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Mmhhmm, In reality, there's no real advantage in implementing my floor selection design over an 'up, down or skip' design. I just like coming up with new and improved tech.

Nice job on your design btw, kudos 		2010-01-07 00:49:00

Author:
Unknown User

I completely understand. I was just with Tamland today making a low thermo XOR for higher order inputs. Why? I have no idea! But it was fun.

Thanks. 		2010-01-07 00:55:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

comph saw my design and said Oh my god its huge2010-01-07 07:30:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Ohh i knew that it was something i was suppose to build yesterday..
My idea is a little similar but should be less logic..


I completely understand. I was just with Tamland today making a low thermo XOR for higher order inputs. Why? I have no idea! But it was fun.

Thanks.

Yeah it was really fun actually. And the great part is that it's so rewarding to see how others would tackle the same problem!
Even though some like to cheat when they are building *pointing at comph*		2010-01-07 07:58:00

Author:
Tamland
Posts: 106

wait how does comph cheat 2010-01-07 16:52:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Haha..

I broke his XOR (it was kinda bouncy ), so he "fixed" the problem by putting in a delay..

And his response was: oh they will not notice
though I'm sure his real levels doesn't use any buggy quickfixes		2010-01-07 19:41:00

Author:
Tamland
Posts: 106

Hey, Rose. I checked out your elevator level, and it was pretty cool. The only complaint I had was how slowly the elevator moves. Lol. But it's pretty cool. I'm impressed you got all those pistons to work in series without flopping over like a... well, I won't finish the joke.

I keep meaning to meet up with you to show you my design, but we haven't crossed paths yet. Quit playing other games!!

2010-01-08 20:05:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Lol yeah Ta. The speed is a bit of a downside, mostly due to the fact that it doesn't use keyswitches to stop. Using keyswitches. I could cut down the logic exponentially but as of now I'm a bit over tinkering with it.

On to the next idea.		2010-01-08 21:39:00

Author:
Unknown User

Sounds great, I have to play this when i get the chance.2010-02-01 01:43:00

Author:
M_R_Enigma
Posts: 161

This is an awesome elevator but I've seen the logic in the level when RoseScythe kindly let me have a close up look but it was way too complex for me. I couldn't possibly recreate that even with instructions.

Could any of you guys make an easy one for those of us who have no understanding of logic gates at all ? Maybe you could take a look at one I made which only uses one switch which I made myself ( don't ask me what sort of switch it is as I have no idea, I just made something by trial and error that works ) and goes to as many floors as you want although at present you have to go all the way up or down. I've put the demo at 10 floors and put the workings as a prize in the hope that someone can improve it but without adding loads of logic which is the exact thing I want to avoid.

Thanks.		2010-02-01 01:56:00

Author:
mistervista
Posts: 2210

You really should learn how logic gates work, they will vastly improve your level making mad skillz I have only used simple logic so far in my levels, but that's because i've only made simple levels!

You can find lots of resources on the 'net, but here's a quick overview:
AND gate: activates an output if all of it's inputs are active. in other words, if you need a player to flip a switch AND be in an area to open a door, then this is what you want.

OR gate: activates an output if any of it's inputs are active. In other words, if you need a player to pull a switch OR take out an enemy, then this is the switch you want.

XOR gate: activates if one of it's inputs is active, but not all of them. In other words, if you want a player to have to complete one of several tasks, then this is what you want.		2010-02-01 04:38:00

Author:
RCIX
Posts: 250

I think Gryfalcon_m has a good elevator tutorial2010-02-01 07:23:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078

Nice elevators everyone! I like the idea of being able to choose the floor you go to... might have to try that one.

I did make quite a cool elevator that came to the floor the player was on (without the need of grabbing anything) and then would only move when all players were inside the elevator:

Process: Elevator arrives, doors open, all players go in, doors closed- elevator moves to new floor, doors open ( elevator is programmed not to move until all players have left the elevator), players re-enter lift and process repeats.

Sounds simple, trust me... it isn't. I even had to invent a new switch to record which direction the lift was moving in at a given position. Its perfect for lifts with only 2 levels and will always arrive for the players without needing to be called (use of MGS switch). I actually made it for Powershifter for his new Celestia level.		2010-02-02 21:35:00

Author:
ladylyn1
Posts: 836

Having seen this elevator work in person, I can testify that it is one of the most advanced elevators on little big planet. I was impressed at how you managed to break down the logic into the most simplest form. 5 stars and heart when you republish.2010-02-04 23:22:00

Author:
M_R_Enigma
Posts: 161

RCIX:
You really should learn how logic gates work, they will vastly improve your level making mad skillz I have only used simple logic so far in my levels, but that's because i've only made simple levels!

Thanks but I've tried and I just don't get it at all. It's beyond me. I think of myself as intelligent but not with stuff like this. I wasn't brought up with computers and have no knowledge of electronics whatsoever. I've tried loads of tutorials and logic levels but I just end up more confused than when I started.		2010-02-05 00:53:00

Author:
mistervista
Posts: 2210

I played the level some time ago, and after that i've been thinking all about elevators, just recently, I began drawing logic on paper at school, on how to make elevators. Both selecting floors and then go to it seems like a helluvah tricky thing to do, but I will wait to see what happens in create mode.

Compliments to the level, Rosescythe! One of the best I have ever played. 		2010-06-10 14:40:00

Author:
moonwire
Posts: 1627

I'm going to play this as soon as I can! That elevator looks superb!! Not many people can combine complex logic with brilliant aesthetics, but you pulled it off!!

Well done!		2010-06-10 16:21:00

Author:
Weretigr
Posts: 2105

WUNDERBAR! Nice work brah. 2010-06-10 17:08:00

Author:
PoD CREW
Posts: 268

I played the level some time ago, and after that i've been thinking all about elevators, just recently, I began drawing logic on paper at school, on how to make elevators. Both selecting floors and then go to it seems like a helluvah tricky thing to do, but I will wait to see what happens in create mode.

Compliments to the level, Rosescythe! One of the best I have ever played.


Did you look at the dates? That's a huge bump.		2010-06-10 17:13:00

Author:
agrx
Posts: 192

I gave up trying to make your version of an elevator and instead made something slightly different. It has two grab switches, one for up, one for down. Upon grabbing either, the doors close and it will switch one floor. As you approach a new floor, tapping grab again will allow you to skip the floor.

The beauty of it is that floors can be added seemlessly wherever you want along the elevator's path. I know people aren't fans of stopping the elevator with magnetic key switches on the floor, but I got it to work wonderfully. The reason I'm happy with it is because it is failure safe, in that if the player jumps out of the elevator before the door closes, the doors will open again and the elevator will not move. Also, if you are on the top/bottom floor and you press the button to go further up or further down, nothing will happen.


I've made an elevator that does that exact same thing. Tap right to go up one floor, left to go down, hold to skip past a floor without the doors opening. however, i think mine might be a little bit more efficient (have a feeling it wont be just because I'm not comphermc or rtm).

I have a tech demo level published if anyone wants to check it out. I have all the logic on show but its a bit ugly.

RoseScythe's elevator sounds quite snazzy, I'll check it out tomorrow.		2010-06-11 01:29:00

Author:
R0GUE--Elite
Posts: 118

I played this level a while back
(*cough* still waiting on the sequel *cough*),
(;
and I still haven't been able to duplicate this.
Now that I see it's more complex than what I had imagined,
I'm not sure I will be able to duplicate it.
/;		2010-06-11 04:56:00

Author:
Mastadom
Posts: 195

I had no idea this had been bumped. I temporarily showcased the elevator itself in a demo level. I'll unlock it again so anyone that's interested can view it on it's own without having to progress halfway through Dead Memories.2010-06-11 06:58:00

Author:
Unknown User

Ooooohhhh I love elevaters but i think you just made this more complicated then it needed to be LMFAO!2010-08-02 08:44:00

Author:
trusttouch
Posts: 2

Ooooohhhh I love elevaters but i think you just made this more complicated then it needed to be LMFAO!

Hysterical.

Nice bump btw.		2010-08-02 09:43:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

This is a very substantial milestone rosecythe, I have played dead memories and think it is incredible how you get the perfect atmosphere. Now the lift, kudos to you because I heard of it by word of mouth, it seems to be a massive talking point amongst the logistics of lbp, so it seems that you have set your place in the ranks 2010-08-04 11:41:00

Author:
AssassinatorRFC
Posts: 715


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