Archive: 35 posts

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So here we are with the Sackies. In my view, a great idea but a little puzzling in its execution. Mm genuinely care about the community, but they're a small company who maybe don't have the resources to do things the way they perhaps want to. These Sackie awards are causing lots of debate and controversy, which in a way is a good thing, but I'm a tad perplexed. How this was conceived, we'll never know, but surely it would have been better for Mm to give players a number of categories to vote for, and then poll the results of each category for a fairer overview. I'm not criticising LBPC or any other fansite. They've been asked to help, and have done so. But why oh why could we just not have had a simple, private voting system based on categories Mm presented us with? It shouldn't be a case of who shouts loudest, or who knows who, or who has the most influence etc. Mm can only base their results on what they're aware of, but surely the more people who have a chance to vote would present a more widely balanced view, and more people would've had the chance to have their say? I don't know the answer. And this thread is meant to provoke more debate, not anger. I'm not even sure whether I should have posted this, but I only do it with the intention of garnering opinion. Thank you.

2009-12-19 20:40:00 Author: MrsSpookyBuz Posts: 1492

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I'm not even sure whether I should have posted this, but I only do it with the intention of garnering opinion. I'm sure you'll be fine With regards to today's category, it had a number of issues for me. The name is just far to subjective. I mean, even if you have a well defined aspect to judge upon, people will have varying opinions, but "best gameplay" is such a subjective term and we have seen so many people express different views about what gamplay is. And then under that it's subjective what "good" gamplay is. Take Setbacks - it's a gameplay-oriented level. That's the focus. Visuals take a back seat (not entirely through choice lol) and mechanics are there to serve the gameplay. A minority of the community love my level and it's been lovely to see that. But the majority would find the gameplay frustrating, boring, obtuse in places and generally lacking in enjoyment. For most people it has terrible gameplay and I'd never expect it to appear in something promoted by MM for that very reason. CCubbage and CaptainCowboyHat are a similar story. CCubbage is a god at gameplay ideas, but requires you to learn his mechanic before the level makes sense - anyone wanting to just drop in and running through it is in for a shock! OH NO has some of the best crafted challenging gameplay in the community, but that just doesn't appeal to everyone. I do agree with what you were saying about giving the vote to everyone, but to my mind that would undermine the purpose of these in a way. It would take away the "oooh what category is coming next" fun, but would devolve the whole thing down to a popularity contest - which would mean the best known creators getting all the awards. Now I'm not saying that hasn't happened anyway - largely the hidden gems have gone unnoticed in this. Which is where it's fallen down. Maybe MM should have maybe thrown out a "hidden gems" net to the forums. Then used what they know and what they found out from that to pick the categories... I dunno, the execution has seemed bizarre at many points - why do levels with negligable gameplay get into the gameplay category? Why are only music levels considered for the audio award? I think more thought needed to go into this. It's a great concept, but there was always going to be controvesy and I can't help but feel MM haven't really thought this through that well. Forgive my ramblings, I'm drunk.

2009-12-19 21:17:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I am being rushed out the door by my friends, so perhaps I'll post more on this later, but this category was puzzling to me also. Why was Ccubbage not there? Why was MrsSpookyBuz not there? And why wasn't Industrial Assistance there!!!??? anyway, I'm being pulled out the dooooooor .... more later!

2009-12-19 23:11:00 Author: xkappax Posts: 2569

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I think it's been said before that these awards are meant to be a bit of end of year fun, and as with any kind of awards with so many potential candidates, feeling are always going to hurt. Spaff has said that with this being the first one, it's just to see how it works and develops. It could turn out next year that everything is voted for by the community. I do think the gameplay one has been a bit misplaced but also I think that it comes down to how varied the definition 'gameplay' can be. My levels are all about the gameplay, so is 'Setbacks' and so are Ccubbage's...can you really put all those in the same bracket? Not really. I think whether or not you agree with the nominations of this category depends upon your definition of 'gameplay' and what you think this award was actually meant to be for. People being left out and awesome levels being looked over is inevitable with something like this though unfortunately. The one thing I don't agree with is that all the nominations get crowns. It means that what the winner gets over the nominees is basically just 'bragging rights' (not the best term I know, but you get the point ). Surely a better way would have been to give the winner a crown and let the honour of being nominated be the award for the 'runners up'.

2009-12-20 03:22:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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I would actually take these awards seriously is they didn't have that horrid name and if we knew who exactly chose the nominees/winners. I keep on seeing people say that these awards are just for fun and to not take them seriously, but there are crowns being given out. Crowns should be worth a bit more.

2009-12-20 05:13:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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Quite an insult to the LBP community if you ask me. I'm not saying that they don't deserve their wins, but there must surely be other worthy nominees. How do they determine the nominees or winners is a mystery. Did they actually bother doing any research or did they merely take a peek at the "most kudoed" list and assume that to be an accurate representation of those who most deserve to be crowned, neglecting to take into account that such a system can easily be 'gamed' by sockpuppetry.

2009-12-20 05:28:00 Author: SHENOA77 Posts: 184

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Agreed. With everyone. But, take into mind, when you give the vote to the community, you not only give it to the Kappa's, the SpookyBuz's, the Comphermc's, the ConfusedCartmen, etc. etc.... (Sorry if I missed your name, I know how it feels, really, but you guys know who you are ) you're also giving it to the false griefers, the copiers, the h4h'ers and the bombers. I think this should go down like the Oscars... the head guys (MM and Sony) pick out respected members of the community, and they vote for the nominees, and then, the winners. I think that MM and Sony may not have the resources and awareness to pick levels out of the community. But they CAN find a larger cast who can. That being said, it's all trial and error, folks, and they DID try their best.

2009-12-20 06:36:00 Author: Astrosimi Posts: 2046

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A crown no longer means anything to me .... Sure there are people out there that have well deserved crowns like the logic pack team, but there are also h4hers who actually have crowns because their parents work in MM. Take nuclearfish for example. He spent six hard months on his Sacky Potter level. He rolls out innovative survival challenges every few months. He helps run the contraption challenge. He was even featured in goty and "spotlighted" in the infomoon. Yet I don't think he has a crown.

2009-12-20 07:29:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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Iam sure Mm had alot of others nomines in mind of all of them, but when you have to make a list you cant keep everyone happy.

2009-12-20 08:20:00 Author: jump_button Posts: 1014

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I still believe that some of you take this too seriously. It is just a little award and besides those who've been a great asset to the community will know that without having to be mentioned by MM. And as always http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yHFDa9efCQU

2009-12-20 11:29:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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All right. I was out all night, but I'm back with my perspective on things. I think the thing that bothers me the most is the WAY this was handled. I love MM, I love Spaff, so nothing against them, but the fact that it seemed like such a covert mission seems to be what has everyone's panties in a bunch. And rightly so. I saw the writing on the wall with this the moment the "best level ever" voting popped up. Here are the missteps as I see it: 1. We shouldn't have been left in the dark. We should have been told upfront what this whole thing was about. I, for one, had I known this was some sort of awards shindig, would have taken videos of deserving levels immediately and sent them off to media molecule. Apparently, they even asked some people on Twitter for levels to be nominated, but they were sneaky with this, too. 2. Voting should have been restricted to categories. That way we wouldn't have all these weird results. This way, underdogs like CutieKabukiChan and Vmethos would have a chance to have their levels played by media molecule. Not sure that it would do any good even then, but I would have liked to know that levels like that would have a fighting chance. Yes, this could open the flood gates for a lot of bomb level and h4h enthusiasts, but I don't think many of them frequent the forums. Most people on the forums are hardworkers and want to see levels that deserve it get their rewards. I know I do. The way that it WAS handled was like comparing Apples to Fire Trucks. The only similarity is that they're both red. 3. Voting should have been done in a private manner. There is nothing.... NOTHING worse than seeing all your peers voting for ... well... not you. Some creators here have confidence, but others do not. If we were able to either mail our votes to mm privately or pm them to someone on this site to be forwarded, I think that would have been more efficient. Fewer feelings would have been hurt and it would feel more democratic. Yes, I did vote, but I still feel like I had no say whatsoever, and that hurts, because I know a LOT of really good, underrated creators who deserve to be recognized. I realize that doing it like this would mean that MM would actually have to PLAY all these levels, and perhaps that isn't in their means, so perhaps they did it this way to close the floodgates a bit. Anyway, these are just my thoughts on the subject. Know that I would have done anything and everything in my power to make sure that certain underdogs were finally recognized, because it's really a shame to watch people like Vmethos, CutieKabukichan, ARD, Morgana, and many, many more members here (too many members to mention!) get little or no recognition with content that is just so outstanding. Sorry for that novel, guys. Just my two cents, okay?

2009-12-20 12:40:00 Author: xkappax Posts: 2569

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The way that it WAS handled was like comparing Apples to Fire Trucks. The only similarity is that they're both red. Why always with the discrimination? I like granny smiths, but apparently they don't fit into your world view

2009-12-20 13:02:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Lol. I actually really like apples. And the game apples to apples. I said this in the other thread for "best level ever", too, but the way these awards were handled was like going out to the ocean to look for a top sampling of all the fish in the world, and taking a small bucket, scooping up 3 fish and saying "all right, these are the best fish in the world!" I realized you cannot please everyone and that there are going to be some people left off the list... but I would have liked to at least know that we had a fighting chance and a say in the matter. Again, no disrespect to spaff/media molecule. They are very new at this... I just sort of wish they listened to the arguments in the other thread, because I think this could have been avoided.

2009-12-20 13:28:00 Author: xkappax Posts: 2569

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I still believe that some of you take this too seriously. It is just a little award and besides those who've been a great asset to the community will know that without having to be mentioned by MM. I agree with this. The Sackies are just a bit of fun! There are levels and creators I feel should have been nominated in certain categories, but I can't say that the ones that have been nominated so far didn't deserve it. Good levels are being recognized by Mm, I can't complain about that!

2009-12-20 14:36:00 Author: mrsupercomputer Posts: 1335

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LBP is serious business.

2009-12-20 14:37:00 Author: xkappax Posts: 2569

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Why always with the discrimination? I like granny smiths, but apparently they don't fit into your world view Well, we like HoneyCrisp and can't be bothered by anyone that doesn't feel the same way !! Just kidding!!! LOL!!

2009-12-20 14:59:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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NO WAY! You guys are all wrong! Macintoshes FTW!

2009-12-20 15:00:00 Author: xkappax Posts: 2569

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To be honest I can't really see this as non-serious if you're giving out prizes to winners. It's not like we're scrutinizing this like some sort of international controversy, but then again the recognition and self-esteem of various creators are on the line here. With MM and Sony sponsoring this, even if it isn't serious, it will be by Law of... err... Law of Publicity? I don't know, I made that one up, but I digress. Point is, at MM's level of recognition you can't joke, just like when you become an international pop-star everything you say will be picked apart by the masses and media.... Then again, in the end, the pros outweigh the (fixable) cons and a lot of people got what they deserved. MM did a good job overall

2009-12-20 18:35:00 Author: Astrosimi Posts: 2046

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First of all, I don't want to sound harsh toward Media Molecule but this Sackies thing was a given to be... poop. First off, real awards shows are poop. Music awards doesn't rewards the best artists, they in fact rewards the best selling ones. Same here happen, Media Molecule rewards people that got noticed somehow, no matter the way. They might not be the best but they are "well known" in their context so they won. Just like a real award show. Secondo, LBP fails immesurably at promoting creators and their work. You know how the game is community wise, it's like it's an after thought, designed by a cat between 2 session of flaky tuna eating. People (we) do take this game more seriously than Media Molecule or Sony. Way more. It's clear when you look at the Sackies that it's an aftertought, just a little something to have fun with made/planned/thought in 3-4 minutes. So yeah, it's just an insignificant update to their website that will stir more crap out there than help anything or create fun. Really badly thought out on their part but how is surprised? I just hope they would try to fix the cool level pages further more instead of taking their time to properly make a Award event so I guess they have some of their priorities right... .

2009-12-20 21:56:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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First of all, I don't want to sound harsh toward Media Molecule but this Sackies thing was a given to be... poop. First off, real awards shows are poop. Music awards doesn't rewards the best artists, they in fact rewards the best selling ones. Same here happen, Media Molecule rewards people that got noticed somehow, no matter the way. They might not be the best but they are "well known" in their context so they won. Just like a real award show. Secondo, LBP fails immesurably at promoting creators and their work. You know how the game is community wise, it's like it's an after thought, designed by a cat between 2 session of flaky tuna eating. People (we) do take this game more seriously than Media Molecule or Sony. Way more. It's clear when you look at the Sackies that it's an aftertought, just a little something to have fun with made/planned/thought in 3-4 minutes. So yeah, it's just an insignificant update to their website that will stir more crap out there than help anything or create fun. Really badly thought out on their part but how is surprised? I just hope they would try to fix the cool level pages further more instead of taking their time to properly make a Award event so I guess they have some of their priorities right... . While I think I get the point you are trying to make, the way it is worded implies that you don't believe anyone who has won deserves it and that they have only won because they were already 'famous.' You're right that this game isn't great for promotion but I also resent that this is just 'rewarding people who got noticed somehow, no matter the way'. I worked hard to get as 'noticed' as I did, and I don't for one second believe luck had anything to do with it. I honestly believe that if you involve yourself in ALL aspects of the community you will eventually get what you deserve. The promotion side of the game isn't great, but people think that once you've made a great level, that's it, you should just be able to sit back and wait for glorious recognition. There's millions of levels out there, people don't know how good yours is until they're already in it. You need to set yourself apart right from the start. I have probably digressed slightly here, but my point is that it takes more than luck to get ahead of everyone in terms of 'reputation'. It's true that there are a lot of lesser known creators who deserve more recognition. But rightly or wrongly, this can easily be achieved by becoming active on the forums.

2009-12-20 22:17:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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While I think I get the point you are trying to make, the way it is worded implies that you don't believe anyone who has won deserves it and that they have only won because they were already 'famous.' Wait, they totally deserve it for what it's worth. I'm going way more philosophical than you think here. I express that ALL those award shows aren't really worth anything. I think human like "prizes" and look too much for fame and recognition. Nothing subjective can truly be rewarded. The best music isn't necessarily the most rewarded, same goes for movies, for paintings, for anything that an artist creates because taste is subjective. Maybe I am just going too large here, just wanted to voice that I don't care that much for such things and I think people in general care too much. You're right that this game isn't great for promotion but I also resent that this is just 'rewarding people who got noticed somehow, no matter the way'. I worked hard to get as 'noticed' as I did, and I don't for one second believe luck had anything to do with it. I honestly believe that if you involve yourself in ALL aspects of the community you will eventually get what you deserve. There's nothing that I don't agree with you here. To be successful in this world you need to get noticed. Be it by your expectional talent or your social abilities or a mix of both, that's how you'll achieve popularity and recognition. But again, for what its worth. The pleasure of LBP is more a selfish thing of expression than recognition in my opinion. (Note that neither extreme is interesting -- you don't want ZERO recognition of course). I have probably digressed slightly here, but my point is that it takes more than luck to get ahead of everyone in terms of 'reputation'. It's true that there are a lot of lesser known creators who deserve more recognition. But rightly or wrongly, this can easily be achieved by becoming active on the forums. Here again I agree, I always agreed to that. I am just bringing on the table that if the game was better designed, recognition would happen "in better ways". I don't know how to word it exactly as it is my mind. Right now you need to distinguish yourself extremely, the game does zero promotion and you need to spend alot of time on the internet pimping pimping and pimping again if you ANY feedback of any worth. This is not normal. It shouldn't be. If the game was having some basics done right like some design ala Youtube, exposing profiles before anything else ala Facebook and would have categories and difficulty levels, a real tag system, etc --- People would get recognised in a fairly better, more accurate way. In the music business you can have fans more easily and justify your work alot more accurately because it's greatly divided in styles and genres, categories and whatnot. People can look easily at only one side of music if they want. It's not like in LBP where ALL creations are the same thing and put in the same bowl. .

2009-12-20 22:34:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I agree with this. The Sackies are just a bit of fun! There are levels and creators I feel should have been nominated in certain categories, but I can't say that the ones that have been nominated so far didn't deserve it. Good levels are being recognized by Mm, I can't complain about that! In a lot of ways Mm has overlooked rewarding level creators, it is nice to see in some small, yet flawed attempt they are trying to do something. I'm pretty sure the levels selected are top notch and politically correct within the small groups of people that actually participated in the selection process. Congrats to all!

2009-12-20 23:01:00 Author: EviLPaNda Posts: 51

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I agree with EvILPaNda At least a decent amount of great creators are getting the proper recognition they deserve. Could be better but still better than nothing for any good creator...

2009-12-20 23:03:00 Author: KQuinn94Z Posts: 1758

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This was inevitable and exactly why I didn't bother voting in the first place. You only need to read the nominations thread on here to realise that most of the votes were based on forum popularity. While I agree with Jack that you do need to make an effort and put yourself out there to get your levels noticed. I don't think winning an award should depend on it. What if you don't speak English or don't have a PC? Why they need to make such a wonderful creative game so competitive anyway is beyond me. That's not what art is about. That said, there's no winner that's been announced that I'd consider unworthy and I think it's sad that all this debate will put a damper on what should be their moment of glory.

2009-12-21 00:48:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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This was inevitable and exactly why I didn't bother voting in the first place. You only need to read the nominations thread on here to realise that most of the votes were based on forum popularity. While I agree with Jack that you do need to make an effort and put yourself out there to get your levels noticed. I don't think winning an award should depend on it. What if you don't speak English or don't have a PC? Why they need to make such a wonderful creative game so competitive anyway is beyond me. That's not what art is about. That said, there's no winner that's been announced that I'd consider unworthy and I think it's sad that all this debate will put a damper on what should be their moment of glory. 100% agree with everything. Multiple thanksies!

2009-12-21 00:59:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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Why they need to make such a wonderful creative game so competitive anyway is beyond me. That's not what art is about. This is pure immaculate truth. Media Molecule should have focused since day one on making people NOT perceive this game as a competition. .

2009-12-21 01:12:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I noticed I was mentioned a number of times, and thought I'd give my personal view: Over the past year, I've had 8 spotlights, an unsolicited IGN pick, a community MM pick, a crown for taking part in the logic pack, and have been able to be friends with the most talented group of people I could ever imagine. The people I looked up to the most are almost entirely on my PSN friend list - by THEIR request, and now have had some of my favorite creators suggesting that I should win an award. Oh, and I was mentioned in all but 1 of the creator spotlights.... Personally, I think I've had enough attention - if I had any more my head would explode... especially since there are MANY creators that I think blow me away. These awards are certainly fun, but I think the spotlight threads and the feedback from this community means FAR more and has kept me having fun. But that being said, I'm having fun seeing these awards and have LOVED to see deserving creators get additional credit for their work. I think MM is trying to do something to add a bit more fun, and we should all just have fun watching our fellow creators be validated and give them a big digital high five!

2009-12-21 01:56:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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This is pure immaculate truth. Media Molecule should have focused since day one on making people NOT perceive this game as a competition. Do you really think that the Sackies promote such competition? In my opinion, the only people who buy into LBP being such a competition are the same ones who are already out there sabotaging other levels with rude pictures, spamming comments, and asking for hearts. And I don't think there is anyway to avoid them, they are always gonna be around. Fortunately, we have communities like LBPC that are able to put such foolishness behind us and simply appreciate other creators levels without feeling threatened by them. We have friendly competition on LBPC all the time! The spotlights, the community contests, the online create contest, etc. However, it's incredibly friendly competition and I don't see anything wrong with that.

2009-12-21 01:57:00 Author: mrsupercomputer Posts: 1335

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I agree, I don't think these awards are supposed to be about competition at all. They are just about celebrating some great things that the community have done and having fun with it. I also think that there's nothing wrong with a little competition. Attempting to better ourselves and others is what has pushed this community so far.

2009-12-21 02:02:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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I don't want competition. I just want to smash rocket cheetahs into flamingos.

2009-12-21 02:18:00 Author: xkappax Posts: 2569

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SACKIE AWARD: MOST CREATIVE USE OF DARK MATTER And the candidates are: xkappax for What's the Matter Every one else - for forgetting to hide it And the winner is.,,,,,,,,,,, xkappax!!!!!!! ** Thousands of Applause **

2009-12-21 02:22:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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LBP is serious business. I lol'd So true!

2009-12-21 11:07:00 Author: Plasmavore Posts: 1913

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS181X4F3bw That's me, sorry.

2009-12-21 16:55:00 Author: Unknown User

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BS181X4F3bw That's me, sorry. So glad this was posted. "I bought an outfit today that costed a lot of money...today..." The more I repeat this in my head the more I laugh out loud. Anyway that was a nice suit so I think he had more than just cause to feel aggrieved. RIP ODB.

2009-12-21 17:29:00 Author: SHENOA77 Posts: 184

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RIP ODB indeed... whenever I need a cool perspective on life from a free spirit, and a laugh or two, I watch classic ODB footage on youtube.

2009-12-21 18:10:00 Author: Unknown User

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