Home    LBP Showcase / Reviews / Recommendations    Level Showcase    Cool Levels
#1

TI-LBP: The LittleBIGPlanet Calculator

Archive: 46 posts

TI-LBP: The LittleBIGPlanet CalculatorHibbsi91
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1078&pictureid=9754A calculator that can add, subtract, and multiply any two numbers from 0 to 99. Looks pretty cool in my opinion, too.
all
Phew. Took me a while, but it's done. What started as a project to make a calculator that multiplies became a project to make a calculator that multiplies and looks awesome, and that eventually became a project to make a calculator that adds, subtracts, and multiplies, and looks cool, too. (thanks to rtm223, for asking, "why don't you make it add and subtract?", and to comphermc for constantly saying, "hurry it up, would ya?" )

What does it do?


Adds any 2 numbers 0-99 and displays the result
Subtracts any 2 numbers 0-99 and displays the result, and indicates if the result is negative
Multiplies any 2 numbers 0-99 and displays the result
Shows visual effects when numbers are being changed and when 'answer' button is pressed
Displays logic mechanisms
Looks cool
Plays cool music


What does it look like?
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1078&pictureid=9752
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1078&pictureid=9754
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1078&pictureid=9755
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1078&pictureid=9756
http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=1078&pictureid=9757

If you want to see the logic, see it first-hand in-game!
The easiest way to find this level is to search for "Hibbsi91".

Thanks to all that helped me out in testing and brainstorming!

There is a secret in this level. The key to the secret is "the answer to life, the universe, and everything"


ALSO,
If anybody thinks that I should make tutorials or lessons for logic (but not logic such as OR, AND, XOR, NAND, NOT, NOR, relays, or essentially anything in the Logic Pack, cause Logic Pack is greatness objectified and I don't want to compete with it ), please say so. I'm not going to start work on it immediately, but it has definitely crossed my mind. Also, tell me what you would like to be covered.		2009-12-19 03:34:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

When are you going to make it divide?2009-12-19 03:38:00

Author:
thefrozenpenquin
Posts: 479

Haha, after I make some other stuff. It would be in a separate level, but I do have some ideas to make a division calculator.2009-12-19 03:42:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

I'm salivating. Throw decimals in there LOL2009-12-19 03:54:00

Author:
thefrozenpenquin
Posts: 479

Make it go faster!! No, I'm kidding Hibbsi, nice work. I'm glad you finally got everything sorted out enough to publish it. Funny how far it's come since all it did was multiply. To bad we can't see the logic in action. Maybe you could run arbitrary inputs through it when the player is in the logic room. Besides, I know you aren't ready to be done with it!

2009-12-19 04:23:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Make it go faster!! No, I'm kidding Hibbsi, nice work. I'm glad you finally got everything sorted out enough to publish it. Funny how far it's come since all it did was multiply. To bad we can't see the logic in action. Maybe you could run arbitrary inputs through it when the player is in the logic room. Besides, I know you aren't ready to be done with it!



Actually, I may be able to shave some time off of it's delay to display the result. As for seeing it in action, believe it or not, I'm running out of thermometer to work with

I am thinking about making a separate level to show what happens, and to explain the different parts. Might have to be a series of levels, if I want to explain things properly. I think I may be able to make all of the logic fit on one screen, so everything can be seen at once.		2009-12-19 05:50:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Update: I've adjusted lighting and fixed an issue with changing operations while calculation is in progress.2009-12-19 21:57:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Update: added secret area & items.2009-12-20 03:00:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Update: simplified a few logic mechanisms, made it .1 seconds faster 2009-12-22 00:54:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Wow, it really works ?___?
Congratulation for such a great calculator, i tried to joke him (like with negative numbers after subtractions), but it always said the right answer! Oh, tried to make something when one of the numbers wasn't appeared, and it simply calculates it like 0.
I checked the logic room, but i didn't understand nothing XD
I liked the visuals, with the paintballs going up and down. Try to add a NPC like a robot, that shows you the rooms, to make it more funny
5 stars and tagged Ingenious. I'll check it next time i have to do Maths XD
This wasn't really a level, so i don't know if you want to do F4F, but if you agree to do that, check my Christmas level clicking My Creations under my Avatar 		2009-12-22 12:50:00

Author:
Dante95
Posts: 504

Thanks! I tried to make it as reliable as possible, by making it just calculate a 0 when there was no number. That way it wouldn't break or do something ridiculous lol


I'll check out your level when I play next!		2009-12-22 13:50:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Whoa, that's awesome! It really works and looks great too. I mean, even your logic looked great and organized! I had no idea what it did but it was cool to see. 5 stars for such great work, I imagine this took you ages to complete.2009-12-22 14:54:00

Author:
brnxblze
Posts: 1318

Yes, this is rather impressive isn't it

You do need to find some way so that people can watch it do the calculation, cause it looks so cool in create mode. Even if it's just a separate level with interface and guts, a jetpack and a delay on calcualtion after you press the button.

So players input digits, press button, then have 5s to get to what they wanna look at and see it go!		2009-12-22 15:01:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Hmm.. I just might do that.
I think if I make it just the bare minimum, I can make all of the mechanisms on-screen with the input and answer boxes. <goes off to see>		2009-12-22 15:07:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Update: Now has key to level that lets you see the logic while it's working!2009-12-22 16:09:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Oh so when I suggest that it calculates arbitrary operations you ignore me, but when rtm says it the world stops. I see how it is... no, don't touch me...

haha

2009-12-22 16:21:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Haha!
But seriously, I don't think I have enough thermometer to have it do what you said. It would've been cooler, but I didn't want to keep having the little reminder that is basically telling me "STOP ADDING CRAP" popping up over and over 		2009-12-22 16:38:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

I wonder what would happen if I submerged this large mass of logic devices in water? This started out with a "water-powered" theme, hence the blue and the bubbles. Might be a stretch, though. Don't want to "just add water" just because I can. At the moment, though, I actually can't, because WATER IS TAKING FOREVER TO GET TO NORTH AMERICA.2009-12-23 00:50:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Here's my feedback:

ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And my opinion:

ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And a suggestion:

ZOMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!		2009-12-23 01:01:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

Hahaha
thanks again, incinerator22!

Not surprisingly, I've already had somebody leave a comment saying "this is stupiddd"
Surprisingly, Incinerator22 told that person to go to hell.
Not surprisingly, I lol'd.		2009-12-23 01:23:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

edit: I don't really feel like redoing everything for water, so I'm probably not going to add it.2009-12-23 15:34:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Hey there! I'm back - that is if anyone's noticed I've been away!
Cool, so its ready now! I'll check it out later on and leave some feedback, but if it's anything like it was when I tested it, I'm sure its awesome 		2009-12-23 18:43:00

Author:
standby250
Posts: 1113

Hey there! I'm back - that is if anyone's noticed I've been away!
Cool, so its ready now! I'll check it out later on and leave some feedback, but if it's anything like it was when I tested it, I'm sure its awesome

Yeah I noticed you were absent for a bit, didn't want to nag and say "WHERE YOU BE?", so I didn't

Thanks again!		2009-12-23 18:50:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

This level is awesome!!!2009-12-26 19:17:00

Author:
theCooper
Posts: 72

Just played it. This contraption is Awesome with a capital A. The logic behind this machine is complex and amazing. I could never make something that could match this calculator.

It would be even more awesome if it could divide, although I don't think the thermometer would allow you to do that.		2009-12-26 20:25:00

Author:
Beed28
Posts: 200

Just played it. This contraption is Awesome with a capital A. The logic behind this machine is complex and amazing. I could never make something that could match this calculator.

It would be even more awesome if it could divide, although I don't think the thermometer would allow you to do that.

Maybe someday.... 		2009-12-26 21:09:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Why did my actions surprise you? I have tendencies to want to rip the skulls off haters and spammers. 2009-12-28 19:28:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

Played it - and its awesome! works well, and is looking amazing! nice work - I cant really find any glitches or anything but if I do, I'll let you know!
Again, nice work! Hearted and :star::star::star::star::star:		2009-12-28 22:44:00

Author:
standby250
Posts: 1113

Well, thanks everyone! It has 369 plays and 40 hearts! Might not sound like much, but I'm glad anyway

I'm thinking about making an actual level now. Not that I haven't before, but the "failed to load level" happened, and it caused me to dread making something and losing it. It was a legit level with a ton of lighting, too. Made me stop playing LBP for like 2 weeks lol
The calculator had parts that could be easily put together out of my popit, so it wasn't as bad if it did happen. Now that I can back stuff up, though, I can probably make something without throwing my controller if something goes wrong 		2010-01-03 02:55:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

It looks awesome.

The components could do with labels, because there is a lot of them and they are very interesting.

I could help you cut down on your thermo enough so that it would be able to be used inside a level.

The concept I have in mind is fairly simple once you get your head round it.

Currently your highest output is 99 * 99 (9,801).

You will not get an answer higher than that.

In Octal, that is 23111.

Or 0o23111.

In just 5 Octal digits.

The highest number that can be represented in 5 octal digits is 32767, although 32761 works out to a nice round 181 * 181.

Short version - you could go as high as 181 * 181 with no more work than required to calculate 99 * 99. The only limiting factor is that the current input is only 2 digits - but as far as wiring the mechanism to perform the calculation goes, it would be just as easy to make 181 * 181 as 99 * 99.

To add negative numbers as user-selectable numbers, you would need 2 binary inputs (for the two numbers) and 1 binary output for the answer.

3 switches.

I lost count of how many keys you used - but it should be possible to make one that can range from -32767 (-181 * 181) to 32767 (181 * 181) in around 100 keys/switches and would probably fit on a single screen.

Division would not be too difficult to add.

By only adding a handful of components, you could get it to produce the following answers:

9 / 3 = 3
20 / 5 = 5
100 / 10 = 10

All good so far? The only odd thing you will find is that when you do not give it numbers that divide exactly, it will give you the modulus (as this is far easier to build).

For example -

10 / 3 would return the answer 3 mod 1.
6 / 7 would return the answer 0 mod 6.
10 / 7 would return the answer 1 mod 3.

Similar to what they teach in primary school - the modulus is basically the "remainder".

9 divides by 3 3 times and you are left with 1.
6 divides by 7 no times, you are left with 6.
10 divides by 7 once, you are left with 3.


Although not as impressive as answers with a decimal place, I know from experience the wiring will be a lot easier, and the thought process a lot more natural and the whole thing could be built in small space, relative to the current version.

A decimal version would add maybe 20 keys, 5 key switches.

It would be able to output up to 99,999 and as low as -99999.

sqrt(99999) = 316.226185.

That means it would be able to do an actual max of 316 * 316.


I have had a play around in my test lab.

The bottom line is -

It would be possible to create a decimal calculator using more than one bar of thermo and less than three.		2010-01-03 06:19:00

Author:
ButterflySamurai
Posts: 98

I understand all of what you are saying, but how on earth would you make an octal adder that is more efficient than a binary adder? And if I'm thinking correctly, wouldn't each of the octal digits just be represented by a group of 3 binary digits? You can't represent any value other than on/off (or 1/0, or true/false, etc.) with just one signal.


To add negative numbers as user-selectable numbers, you would need 2 binary inputs (for the two numbers) and 1 binary output for the answer.

3 switches.How do you get only 3 switches out of that? Even if I "just" used 99 as the max addend, that is a 7 bit number. The max answer would be 8 bits. That's 14 input signals and 8 output signals.

And yes, having the division answers in terms of the quotient and the modulus would be the way to go. Fractions only terminate if the divisor is a multiple of a prime factor of the base. So for binary, 2.

Anyway, thanks for looking at it, and for having input!		2010-01-03 17:27:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

I understand all of what you are saying, but how on earth would you make an octal adder that is more efficient than a binary adder? And if I'm thinking correctly, wouldn't each of the octal digits just be represented by a group of 3 binary digits? You can't represent any value other than on/off (or 1/0, or true/false, etc.) with just one signal.

How do you get only 3 switches out of that? Even if I "just" used 99 as the max addend, that is a 7 bit number. The max answer would be 8 bits.

And yes, having the division answers in terms of the quotient and the modulus would be the way to go. Fractions only terminate if the divisor is a multiple of a prime factor of the base. So for binary, 2.

Anyway, thanks for looking at it, and for having input!

You have negative outputs but not inputs.

For negative values, you would only need 1 sign bit(*1) for each sign value - 2 for inputs, one for the outputs.

3.

(*1) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sign_bit

It is true that you would basically be grouping binary digits into groups of 3 - however, that translates into a thermal saving if nothing else.

There are 8 colours of key switch, you could relate each switch to an octal value.

Although it is not technically 8 states - you would basically have binary values for each digit - it would still be a saving with regards to the mechanics needed to represent it all, wire it all and view it all.

I think the easiest way to envision and build it, if not the most efficient to run - a wheel which every colour of key on it, sensors for each key at the top of the wheel. Add in the incremental bolt, you can now represent 1 octal digit in 8 keys and 8 switches.

Copy the wheel 5 times, 8 octal digits, minimal thermal usage.

If you used a separate mechanism for the input (selecting the numbers) the whole of the calculation from both inputs and the output could be produced on those 5 wheels.

That is 40 keys, 40 switches, adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing.

As for displaying the output - it would be a lot easier to wire and/or gates to octal digits than binary ones, just because of the reduction in volume.

If you wanted to go for decimal, meaning you would not need to convert it, you could double up.

Say 9 = red + blue, together, one slot of the wheel
10 = red + green

That would be 2 extra keys per wheel (10 total) but NO extra switches, because the existing switches could detect them. Although they would need and gates.

All possible in less than 100 switches + keys.

The other thing - if you have 1 octal digit, only one of those 8 values will be true at any one time.

If you represent the same number with binary digits, Any combination of off/on from all 3 digits is valid.

That means they all need calculated as a group.

0 + 0 + 0
0 + 0 + 1
0 + 1 + 0
0 + 1 + 1
1 + 0 + 0
1 + 0 + 1
1 + 1 + 1

That is a lot more wiring to decipher than 1 digit true at a time. No?

Octal can be calculated by 1 switch for the same results.

Switch 1

0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7

As for the highest value possible in 5 digits, that would be represented as

0o77777 = 0b111111111111111

That is a LOT of wiring for the binary equivalent of 5 wheels.

I will not even begin to draw out the table for that.
I did not foresee me turning this into work so fast.

Also - I understand that if you take a large number away from a smaller one, you already get a negative number.

I was talking about the work required to multiply negative inputs. Well, just 1 input, otherwise you end up with a positive number anyway.		2010-01-03 17:31:00

Author:
ButterflySamurai
Posts: 98

Sorry for making so much work for you

You apparently have much more experience is this field than I. Kudos to you. This is why I can't wait to go to college. Then I can learn stuff like this. I understand what you are telling me, but I wish I had thought of this earlier. There are 8 different key colors, that should have sparked something in my mind along the lines of, " USE OCTAL!" Unfortunately, it didn't

So, as I would not want to use ideas that are rightfully yours in a creation of my own, I will not simply do what you said and call it an updated version. I would feel like I stole it from you.

Looks like I better find something else to be good at

<Sigh...>		2010-01-03 17:33:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Sorry for making so much work for you

You apparently have much more experience is this field than I. Kudos to you. This is why I can't wait to go to college. Then I can learn stuff like this. I understand what you are telling me, but I wish I had thought of this earlier. There are 8 different key colors, that should have sparked something in my mind along the lines of, " USE OCTAL!" Unfortunately, it didn't

So, as I would not want to use ideas that are rightfully yours in a creation of my own, I will not simply do what you said and call it an updated version. I would feel like I stole it from you.

Looks like I better find something else to be good at

<Sigh...>

I am a programmer in my mid twenties. You have the enthusiasm and the attention to detail down already, you have nothing to worry about.

The only reason I told you is because I would love to see you make it. Stick a note to say it was inspired by me - you would still have to do the hard part on your own. Well, I would help out when needed.

I did not have the idea of building the calculator in that way until I saw yours running, so it is more your idea than mine.		2010-01-03 18:53:00

Author:
ButterflySamurai
Posts: 98

I am a programmer in my mid twenties. You have the enthusiasm and the attention to detail down already, you have nothing to worry about.

The only reason I told you is because I would love to see you make it. Stick a note to say it was inspired by me - you would still have to do the hard part on your own. Well, I would help out when needed.

I did not have the idea of building the calculator in that way until I saw yours running, so it is more your idea than mine.

Well, if you insist
I don't have much time to work on it this week, but maybe next week I can get back to it. I'm sure that I'll need some explanation still, because I'm only partly certain of how the division would work out in octal, in LBP that is.		2010-01-03 19:01:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Well, if you insist
I don't have much time to work on it this week, but maybe next week I can get back to it. I'm sure that I'll need some explanation still, because I'm only partly certain of how the division would work out in octal, in LBP that is.

Cool, give me a shout nearer then - there are a few ways it could be done.		2010-01-03 19:08:00

Author:
ButterflySamurai
Posts: 98

Well I read your post again, and the part where all of the calculation is done on the wheels intrigues me. How would the wheels calculate multiplication and division? In the binary version, it compares shifted bits and adds all of the instances where AND is true. How would the wheels find the product? Would it add partial products, or something different entirely?2010-01-03 19:33:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Well I read your post again, and the part where all of the calculation is done on the wheels intrigues me. How would the wheels calculate multiplication and division? In the binary version, it compares shifted bits and adds all of the instances where AND is true. How would the wheels find the product? Would it add partial products, or something different entirely?

There are two methods that spring to mind -

Doing 4 * 4 as 4 + 4 + 4 + 4 - very easy, but 99 * 99 would take at least 99 * 0.1 seconds.

Converting back to binary for the multiplication does sound easiest, although, not as thermo friendly.

Of course - if you were to hit a button and then wait through 99 iterations, it will seem like quite a while (10 seconds at 0.1 seconds an iteration) but on the other hand, it would remain very thermo friendly and if the saving is significant in terms of thermo saved, it might be worth it.

Plus, it would be nice to watch.

It would be a LOT less efficient unfortunately than the binary method, although it may be possible to combine them.

I think, although it would take 10 seconds (give or take) to calculate 99 * 99, it might be interesting to watch.

I think as a tech demo, you want to have it calculate quickly, but to use it in a level, you want it to calculate answers quickly.

Although, it may be possible to optimise standard binary. Say, get rid of the levers and have the keys literally on top of each other and dissolving each other... so it would actually look like the hand drawn calculations... the blocks that fall to the bottom of the calculation area would be the answer.

Although 10 seconds (or even 20) sounds a lot to wait, if it meant taking up 1 or 2 bars of thermo, the calculator would be usable in level.

I cannot think of what for yet. Strange looking password locks?

If it is for decoration, I think the slow version might actually have the benefit of being more fun to watch.		2010-01-03 20:43:00

Author:
ButterflySamurai
Posts: 98

If you ever make it divide, you could add some explosions and fire when someone tries to divide by zero. Would be a really cool easter egg 2010-01-03 20:52:00

Author:
napero7
Posts: 1653

If you ever make it divide, you could add some explosions and fire when someone tries to divide by zero. Would be a really cool easter egg

The little world would have to end.		2010-01-03 20:54:00

Author:
ButterflySamurai
Posts: 98

Ok, I was thinking that repeated adding would be how it would work, but I wasn't sure that's what you were saying. I'm assuming that division would be repeated comparing and subtracting, right? A very slow way would be to subtract until you get a negative number and count how many subtractions were needed.

The keys dropping and dissolving was one of my first ideas when I started making this. Now that I realize that I was doing it all wrong, and that it would be exceedingly simple, I might go back to it.

My goodness that way was so much simpler, why did I try it a different way?		2010-01-03 21:22:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

Ok, I was thinking that repeated adding would be how it would work, but I wasn't sure that's what you were saying. I'm assuming that division would be repeated comparing and subtracting, right? A very slow way would be to subtract until you get a negative number and count how many subtractions were needed.

The keys dropping and dissolving was one of my first ideas when I started making this. Now that I realize that I was doing it all wrong, and that it would be exceedingly simple, I might go back to it.

My goodness that way was so much simpler, why did I try it a different way?

Part of the fun is doing things a lot of different ways.

I agree it would be slow... The slowest it could be would be 99 iterations as that is the highest number you can enter.

It could be as quick as ten seconds for the whole thing, although the reality would probably be somewhat slower.

I imagine if you slowed it down even more and made the calculator bigger, you could create a level where you could jump in and on the machine as it did the calculation - a race of sorts.

Entering bigger calculations would mean you get more time but a lower score.

Or you could compact it into little room

Connect different results into each of the 3 doors.

Show pictures of the wheels how they should be and make the users try and figure out what numbers they need to enter to get the right result to open the right door.

Enter it here - https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=19335		2010-01-03 21:59:00

Author:
ButterflySamurai
Posts: 98

So apparently the level's title has been misspelled from the time I first published it. It's fixed, but now I feel like an idiot :blush:2010-01-30 15:34:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

What was misspelled?

(moron)		2010-02-02 23:56:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

I didn't realize it, but I published the world's first claculator that added, subtracted and multiplied in LBP. Worst part is that it was in the title, so no wonder I couldn't find it by searching for "calculator" levels.2010-02-03 04:10:00

Author:
Hibbsi
Posts: 203

It's okay, everyone makes mistakes.

illiterary idiot


(lol)		2010-02-03 04:16:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251


LBPCentral Archive Statistics
Posts: 1077139    Threads: 69970    Members: 9661    Archive-Date: 2019-01-19

Datenschutz
Aus dem Archiv wurden alle persönlichen Daten wie Name, Anschrift, Email etc. - aber auch sämtliche Inhalte wie z.B. persönliche Nachrichten - entfernt.
Die Nutzung dieser Webseite erfolgt ohne Speicherung personenbezogener Daten. Es werden keinerlei Cookies, Logs, 3rd-Party-Plugins etc. verwendet.