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#1

What is with all the republishing?

Archive: 92 posts

Has anyone else noticed all the republishing that has been going on for the past few weeks? I'm talking about when authors delete/lock one of their levels and republish it completely new in order to get it up into the Cool Levels simply for attention.

Here are a few examples just in the past 2 weeks:

Creator: biddle666
-Completely republished his levels, "Scientific Island 1"(he's published this level 3 times now over the past few months, everytime it reached Page 1), "Scientific Island 2", "Scientific Island 4", "MECH BI PEDAL AS A PRIZE"

Creator: Rafaella16
-Completely republished her "Race in The Love" level yesterday(it was on the Cool Levels Page 1 ALL last week), republished her "Costumes(With boys and girls costumes!)" level as well, "Jump For Your Life!!"

Creator: AlfieAlpha
-Completely republished his "Little Resident Big Evil: The Nightmare(Part 5)" level just this past weekend(the level was on the Page 1 two weeks ago). And it isn't the first time he has completely republished his levels, he's done it with the other parts of the series in the past).

Creator: fijski8
-Now onto this guy, who has been republishing his levels for months now, just this past week he republished his "Switch Way" level and one of this many Indiana Jones levels. Honestly, I already lost count of all the others he has republished.

Level Copier: Jiri---
-This "creator" just this past week republished "ARIZONA sky The Rainbow Trail" and "Yeti Mountain"- None of which are his levels, they both reached Page 1.

Creator: steve_big_guns
-Republished his "CITY ALIEN INVADERS" level(was on the Cool Levels all last week). It isn't the first time he has done it either, I enjoy his levels but some of his methods he's used to get to the top are just sad.


Now, these are just a few examples of some of the creators that I have seen over the past few weeks, there are a lot more. I know this has been happening for months now but I fear it is starting to become a trend. Some of you may not realize the affects this has on the community but in my opinion it truly damages it, just this past week IceMaiden republished her all new Music level, instantly becoming a classic level among many members on the forums, including me. Just imagine if many of the creators I listed wouldn't have abused the system, maybe her level would have gotten even more attention, attention it truly deserves. I also know there are many others within the forums who plan on publishing their all new levels in the coming weeks, who's to say this cheating of the system won't prevent a great level from rising to the top?

Anyways, I had been wanting to create this thread for awhile now, it wasn't until the events of these past few weeks that I finally decided to create it. In no way is cheating the system beneficial to the community, I think MM should at least take into consideration to block levels from the Cool Pages once they've already reached that hight? I certainly think it is necessary, it makes everything a little more balanced and fair.		2009-12-15 00:23:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

I know, and it annoys me as well.2009-12-15 00:28:00

Author:
bonner123
Posts: 1487

If the level is good, or has lots of work put into it like icemaiden's levels or alphiealpha's levels, I'm all for it.

People like jiri on the other hand who republish for fame and hearts and to eliminate competition, that's terrible. (Not to mention stealing, but that's a whole other story).

(Also, alphiealpha republished because he made major renovations)		2009-12-15 00:32:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

Yea there is really no reason to do that besides major renovations. Maybe if the case was rhetorically speaking, biddle666 was making a new level. He might want people to remember him again and play this new level of his. That's at least better then just shooting for more stars and hearts. But if the case is, just republishing so you get more author hearts and etc. that's nonsense. No one should do that no matter how talented the creator is. It's not fair to other creators in any way and is practically cheating.2009-12-15 00:47:00

Author:
Dan930930
Posts: 77

Does it have to recieve a certain amount of plays before it gets in the cool levels page? I republish mine because I don't want people to never see my level again in two hours, after working on it for a long time. Maybe few people ever see them because other people are republishing their really good levels? Or it could just be that no-one is interested. I only republish my levels once a week for the first four weeks. Possibly some more later if no-one is still playing them. I usualy get about 50-80 (total, not every time I republish them) plays on my levels, and I don't even bother if it gets a one star.

If I need to fix my republishing process, please tell me.		2009-12-15 01:41:00

Author:
RagTagPwner
Posts: 344

Does it have to recieve a certain amount of plays before it gets in the cool levels page? I republish mine because I don't want people to never see my level again in two hours, after working on it for a long time. Maybe few people ever see them because other people are republishing their really good levels? Or it could just be that no-one is interested. I only republish my levels once a week for the first four weeks. Possibly some more later if no-one is still playing them. I usualy get about 50-80 (total, not every time I republish them) plays on my levels, and I don't even bother if it gets a one star.

If I need to fix my republishing process, please tell me.

Yes, in order to get onto the Cool Pages your level has to have a certain number of plays, how many plays varies. All but one of the creators I mentioned have over 2,000 authors hearts so they are pretty recognizeable. For example, any level steve_big_guns publishes is guarenteed a spot on the Cool Levels because he is really well known throughout the community.		2009-12-15 02:05:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

I think this is lame. Do we witness a trend here or something? I hope not.

.		2009-12-15 02:14:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

[QUOTE=Endless_Echo;351353]Has anyone else noticed all the republishing that has been going on for the past few weeks? I'm talking about when authors delete/lock one of their levels and republish it completely new in order to get it up into the Cool Levels simply for attention.

Ok, you mentioned me by name. So i'll explain why myself and other creators do this. Not all the creators fall in the "I want more hearts" categorey in which you are putting us all in. Why republish a garbage, worth playing level, over and over to get hearts. It is obvouis what these players are doing, they are out to get hearts and steal "fame" which they don't deserve. They use cool pages for hearts that they can recieve during thier 7 days of glory on cool pages. I totaly agree with you, that is not right.

Now..... for the majority of the players you mentioned. It isn't for hearts or for the 7 days on cool pages to get more attention. It is a goal. A goal to get a spot on highest rated page 1. Most of the players you mentioned have created 20 levels. So cool pages we know, is not our goal. Unfortunately, yes, when you release a new copy of your level it does go on cool for 7 days. But that is not why we rereleased our levels. We want want comes after those 7 days.
Look at highest rated page 1... do you think all those levels on that page deserve to be there? 2 copies of bomb survivals that aren't even created by the publisher. Free prizes, free bubbles, and many, many other levels that should be on highest rated page 50.
Now these levels on highest rated page 1 end up getting 300,000 views and don't last for the 7 days you mentioned we are after. Highest rated page 1 is forever. Now after building 20 levels you get burnt out. And it is **** hard to top off what you made last time. Or delete one of your old creations to make a new. Alot of the creators you mentioned have played lbp for 13 months. We think 7 days is nothing, we aren't out to get an extra 200 hearts from cool pages. We have a goal, and thier is a reason behind our madness.
Now alot of the creators you mentioned have bad issues with haters, we release a new level we put 100s of hours into and it gets 4 stars and rubbish tag after 90 plays. Now after 13 months of playing. That is crap. Especially when free prizes has 300,000 views and is forever on page 1 highest rated.
Now i know this happens alot. I have seen amazing levels that smoke mine get 4 stars. Or worse yet, Amazing creators like Wex or Rickybobby have thier masterpieces drop to 4 stars from 5. It is horrible. Now I think the 2 creators I mentioned deserve to aim for highest rated, even if it means republishing thier levels 15x. I wish anyone that feels they have been abused by haters or robbed of thier 5 stars by 5 to 10 yr olds that can't beat thier level and rate 1 or 3 stars because it is too hard. Cool page 1 is not a home for a masterpiece. highest rated 1 is.
My advice to alll creators that think they deserve a spot on highest rated page 1 and get 300,000 views is to NEVER GIVE UP!!! It is a game. Ricky your level was on page 2 highest rated. I wish he would have locked it. Because today he'd have 100,000 views.
In the end we aren't trying to ruin cool pages by republishing we are just trying to meet a goal and don't want to dump another 100 hours into a new level after we built 20 levels. We know cool pages last 7 days, and highest rated is forever.
Most of the creators you mention are older guys with different goals. And we play the game a little differently then you.
Now as for Bonner123 comment. You make me sick buddy, Spamming levels with 1 to 3 stars, uploading "lame" photos on creators levels so they get moderated. Get a life kid. And aim for highest rated! Cool pages is 7 days. Highest rated is forever.
To the community never give up! Ladylyn your new level was hated on. and it drop to a 4 star from a 5 because of kids like Bonner123. If i were you i'd republish all your wind levels and your latest one. Until you achieve your real goal.
O.... 1 last thing to prove it is not about hearts. Demon has a copy with 2.5k hearts and hearted by some of my favorite authors. I now have achieved my goal of highest rated page 1 with a copy with only 1k hearts. Now... lets see if i can overtake buuble prizes and the bunker for plays! So you won't see me republishing levels anymore.
Never give up!!!!! If you had a 5 star up untill 500 plays. It was meant to be on highest rated. If you lost it at 20k plays. It was meant to be locked on page 1 cool.
Never give up!		2009-12-15 03:00:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

I think this is lame. Do we witness a trend here or something? I hope not.

.

I doubt you would make that comment if any other member on the forum had created the thread, I bet you didn't even bother to read the op. I don't know what exactly you have against me because it sure isn't the first time you make a snarky comment in one of my threads, but I won't play your little game, continue to hate.


I created the thread because throughout the year I saw many trying to take advantage of the Cool Level system, is what they are doing illegal? No, but in my opinion it is not morally right. I feel that too many people are ignoring the issue and I felt it needed to be discussed.		2009-12-15 03:00:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

Alright, well I'll try and deconstruct your post fijski8, it's a bit long. Anyways, from what I understand you are trying to do whatever you can to get most of your levels onto the Highest Rated page, which I have no problem with, I think most of us wish we could get on that page at one point. But I do have a problem with the methods you use to achieve success, I've played your levels and none of them look like they took 100 hours to create, much less belong on any page of the Highest Rated. I know that sounds a bit harsh but it is my opinion and obviously many others because the first time you published them they were no where near the top. I also think you along with many others try to blame "5 year olds" as to why your levels are rated 4 Stars which you make sounds as if it's the worst thing ever. I mean really, most of the greatest levels on lbp are 4 even 3 stars, that doesn't make them any less than great.2009-12-15 03:17:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

At the end of the day, this is no different to everythign else in life. There is a system. the system is manipulable, therefore there are those that will try to manipulate that system to achieve some goal. The only difference between this and the reset of life is that normally the goal is actually something worthwhile, something tangible. In LBP it's a meaningless statatistic, so it's kinda sad that people care that much about their stats.

I don't really see what this discussion is intending to achieve though. You say MM should block levels from cool pages once they've reached their height, but that's not exactly an simple thing to do, it's probably not even practical.

Obviously I have the luxury that I didn't want my last level up on the top of cool pages, and I'm not going to want my next level on the top of cool pages either, so these things barely affect me, so I suppose my apathy is slightly selfish.		2009-12-15 03:35:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

yeah, i wouldnt really care about being on the cool levels. i just want people to play my story

i only ever republish if i notice something that needs fixing, or if i see a way to make something better

i hardly get any plays on my levels anyway, but id like more people to see them anyhow...		2009-12-15 03:43:00

Author:
Xegethra
Posts: 207

Yes, 13 months is hardly something i think anyone can say is something small. And yes My level was close. It was on page 5 highest rated but because i left it on cool page 1 for 3 days it fell there. I know it was becasue it was too hard for people because i read my comments. I had about 10 saying they couldn't figure it out. I was happy with page 5. I was over the moon, until a fellow creator told me , unless you are on page 1 it means nothing. So i had to prove this guy wrong, and i did. Now you say it s manipulating the system? How so.... They levels have a lock, copy, overwrite and publish feature. I hardly see that as manipulating. 13 months of my life playing a game everyday and seeing how levels get rated on certian pages of cool levels. I know how the system works. And i use all of its features. Page 1 is full of kids that play bomb survavils and jump for your life games. I never once republished and overwrote Jones and the Demon, It stayed locked on page 1 cool for 3 days. No manipulation invovled. All features Mm have given us.
Any level that takes any kind of thinking won"t keep a 5 star if you do republish trick or Keep open for players for 3 days on page 1 cool.
Now "Republishing your level every minute" That is more manipulating the system then anything i have done. I worked hard for that spot. And it wasn"t easy to keep it locked for 3 days. Which is where most 5 stars lose thier 5, because the level was too difficult.
Now when you mention my name, of course I am going to stand up for myself. Just like I'll never give up on anything in life.		2009-12-15 04:18:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

I think you're missing the point of creating, there fijski. If you're creating just to get on the front of highest rated, you are going about it for the wrong reasons. Is it not just enough to have people enjoy the level? Why do you need to kid yourself and fight for recognition as one of the 30 best levels of all time (which isn't really what highest rated is anyways). There are thousands of creators, and to claim you are better than all of them, to the point of trying to gain recognition as such is a form of greed. Plain and simple. Is your level the greatest ever created? Is it in the top 50? Do you feel it should belong on the front of highest rated? Seriously ask yourself these questions. Not just glance at them and move on... seriously consider them. I can think of level that are more deserving to be on the front of highest rated (myself not included), and for you to come on here and say that you are fighting to get on there just baffles me.

Why is it so important? If you do manage to get there, it will fall off quickly. Hell, the Logic Pack had 10 levels on the front of highest rated at one point. Big deal, there's only one left. It doesn't last. Why concern yourself so much with it?		2009-12-15 04:25:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

I doubt you would make that comment if any other member on the forum had created the thread, I bet you didn't even bother to read the op. I don't know what exactly you have against me because it sure isn't the first time you make a snarky comment in one of my threads, but I won't play your little game, continue to hate.


I created the thread because throughout the year I saw many trying to take advantage of the Cool Level system, is what they are doing illegal? No, but in my opinion it is not morally right. I feel that too many people are ignoring the issue and I felt it needed to be discussed.


??
It's not about you. I voiced that I am against people re-releasing their old levels. I'm not hating, this is a susceptible reaction you have there bud.


----------


fijski8,


Isn't it the same to spam the cool level pages for trophies/hearts/play or for getting on the highest rated page? In both cases the goal is moot (imo) and both are cluttering the cool level pages. Why not simply make more levels? Also, your older levels will always get more plays because you make new ones. It's actually cool to see this happen. Also, the more you continue creating and the more you will improve, don't be attached too much to old levels. Maybe they don't need to come back. Might not be your best work, maybe you'll do better with new stuff.

.		2009-12-15 04:46:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

No, after 20 levels, and i know i am not alone.. Creating feels like a job.
I had a goal. And i never gave up.
My point was to never give up.
I put my neck out there for all of you to chop, which you are doing.
So i am done responding.
If anyone needs help on keeping your 5 stars, feel free to PM me or contact me through psn.		2009-12-15 04:48:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

I do not understand the point of this locking of levels to keep them highly rated. Why keep people from playing your levels just for bragging rights?2009-12-15 05:19:00

Author:
RagTagPwner
Posts: 344

Yes, 13 months is hardly something i think anyone can say is something small. And yes My level was close. It was on page 5 highest rated but because i left it on cool page 1 for 3 days it fell there. I know it was becasue it was too hard for people because i read my comments. I had about 10 saying they couldn't figure it out. I was happy with page 5. I was over the moon, until a fellow creator told me , unless you are on page 1 it means nothing. So i had to prove this guy wrong, and i did. Now you say it s manipulating the system? How so.... They levels have a lock, copy, overwrite and publish feature. I hardly see that as manipulating. 13 months of my life playing a game everyday and seeing how levels get rated on certian pages of cool levels. I know how the system works. And i use all of its features. Page 1 is full of kids that play bomb survavils and jump for your life games. I never once republished and overwrote Jones and the Demon, It stayed locked on page 1 cool for 3 days. No manipulation invovled. All features Mm have given us.
Any level that takes any kind of thinking won"t keep a 5 star if you do republish trick or Keep open for players for 3 days on page 1 cool.
Now "Republishing your level every minute" That is more manipulating the system then anything i have done. I worked hard for that spot. And it wasn"t easy to keep it locked for 3 days. Which is where most 5 stars lose thier 5, because the level was too difficult.
Now when you mention my name, of course I am going to stand up for myself. Just like I'll never give up on anything in life.

Hmm... I wonder who told you that.


I have to say that your mentality worries me, what exactly does this show to both new and old creators? That they can become popular by cheating the system? Little Big Planet shouldn't be about how many hearts you have or how popular you are. And, yes I know that it isn't illegal to do any of the tricks you use to get attention, but it is manipulating the system. Let me guess, you publish a level and let all your friends play it first(knowing they will all rate 5 Stars), which then influences any other player to rate high.


One of the reasons I praised the Logic Pack levels was because they got onto the Highest Rated pages the right way, no spam republishing, no locking levels when they are 5 Stared, just the good old honest way, which is to let the community decide. In my honest opinion, I was thrilled because they represented what the Highest Rated use to be about. I remember when I use to visit the Highest Rated pages many months ago, I always use to find levels that were absolutely fantastic, I would never leave those pages unhappy. These past few months have been dramatic to the Highest Rated, many like yourself have tried anything and everything to try to control and take advantage of the system, and I'm tired of your bs. Thanks to you and others the Highest Rated pages are now a complete joke and almost mirror the quality of the Cool Levels. But I guess I can't completely condemn those pages, afterall some levels on there actually deserve their spot.		2009-12-15 05:57:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

Ok you are wrong there buddy, cause all the logic pack were locked and the only one on cool was a 4 star and republished, so think before you speak. and grow up. I learned this trick from the logic pack team.2009-12-15 06:01:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

Ok you are wrong there buddy, cause all the logic pack were locked and the only one on cool was a 4 star and republished, so think before you speak. and grow up. I learned this trick from the logic pack team.

Grow up? Your the one parading around Little Big Planet republishing what you call levels that you know have no chance in hell of ever getting a good rating unless you do anything possible to control it.


And I'll let someone who worked on the Logic Pack to answer to your claim. But to my knowledge, the Logic Pack levels were locked but not played by people who rated them 5 Stars, it wasn't until they were unlocked that regular people from the community started rating them what they thought was fair.		2009-12-15 06:09:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

Grow up? Your the one parading around Little Big Planet republishing what you call levels that you know have no chance in hell of ever getting a good rating unless you do anything possible to control it.


What i call levels? you calling 8,000 people bad judgment? I have had 2 5 stars level on page 4 highest rated without any locking. I wanted to see if locking it on page 1 would make a difference, and it did. Facts are facts.
Did you even read anything i wrote, locking a level from cool page 1 will save your rating if your level is hard for younger kids to beat.
I am trying to help the lbp community by posting this info. I don't even feel welcome here. Sheesh. It is a videogame. And your calling out 8,000 people saying they are wrong. Enough said. I wouldn't be suprised if my levels get moderated after your last speech.		2009-12-15 06:32:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

Yeah yeah I read everything you posted, I know all the little tricks people like you use, I've known it for months like many others have on this forum, it isn't something new. And where are you getting 8,000 people from? Is that how many plays your "level" has? Just because it has 8,000 plays does not mean 8,000 people played the "level." And, there you go again, playing the victim, huh? You don't feel welcome because I stated the facts.

And, are really accusing me of being one of the people who goes around the community reporting levels in order to get them moderated? That statement is laughable. You have nothing on me so you say that... wow.... You should take your own advice and "think before you speak" 		2009-12-15 06:52:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

People seem to be distracted by my 5 star levels, ignoring the others as 20 levels on my map making new ones hard to spot. I thought I would give alien invaders a better chance by simultaneously publishing with my new level and linking with the new key system update as previously it didnt do so well due to lack of giving it a good start by getting early plays. A 5 star level on highest rated page 1 will retain a consistent amount people playing over the duration its published. Thats why I tried again with mario & digititized reality. I learnt that ratings decline significantly on cool page 1 when both dropped to page 2. I noticed they started to get close to moving back to page 1 so I decided to publish again, avoing the exposure completely by only unlocking for the first time nearing the end of the 7 day limit as most of the highest rated start of with low play number. I create levels for the challenge, fun and accomplishment. People playing and enjoying the level is the only reward we get.2009-12-15 07:25:00

Author:
SteveBigGuns
Posts: 423

I think that once creating becomes a job, you should stop. I'm in it for the fun.2009-12-15 08:04:00

Author:
TheJollyRajah
Posts: 466

We are missing the point when we try to evaluate whether a level deserves to be republished based on its quality, the number of hours that went into making it, or the aura of prestige surrounding its author. Those things should be irrelevant.

Ideally, every new level ought to get equal time to be out where people can discover it so that the community--and not the author--can decide which levels ultimately deserve to stick around. This seems to me the only fair way for things to be run. Am I completely wrong?

If not, then republishing itself is the problem. Or at least the lack of any limitation on it. Because as long as there continues to be no limitation, the ground will necessarily be uneven and unfair. On the one hand there will be users who are shamelessly happy to whore themselves just a little bit more than the next guy, and on the other users who do not whore themselves whatsoever, and all kinds of shades in between.

You can see even on this thread that everybody has a different idea of how many republishes is reasonable and how many constitute abuse. It should not be left to authors to decide for themselves. That only leads to the free-for-all spamfest we see today. That is the source of the problem.

The solution is simple, but only Media Molecule has the power to effect it: Either severely limit the frequency with which republishing a level causes it to bump, or eliminate republish-bumping altogether.

(I ranted about this in another (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=19721&page=2) thread)		2009-12-15 08:41:00

Author:
zabel99
Posts: 179

I have put well over 100 hours of precious time into building each of my levels, yet once they were published I allowed them to instantly drop off the pages and into the void of obscurity. Why? Well, I play LBP simply because I enjoy the process of creating. I have no desire for delusions of fame and glory. If you want to play the level I've published then whatever, but you'd better catch it quick or it'll be gone. At the end of the day I didn't make it for you...I made it for me.

To me the obsessive republishing thing is like a creator saying "you ignored my flyer so now I'm gonna flash a big neon sign in your face until you take notice of me". It's not surprising this happens so often though, because let's be honest here...most video game players are socially inept nerdy types who are plagued by feelings of inadequacy and feel a desperate need to be validated by their peers.



(...dives into a bunker and waits for the bombs to fall...)		2009-12-15 09:12:00

Author:
Ungreth
Posts: 2130

^ C'mon, give people who create art a little more credit than people who consume art 2009-12-15 09:22:00

Author:
zabel99
Posts: 179

Now as for Bonner123 comment. You make me sick buddy, Spamming levels with 1 to 3 stars, uploading "lame" photos on creators levels so they get moderated. Get a life kid. And aim for highest rated! Cool pages is 7 days. Highest rated is forever.
To the community never give up! Ladylyn your new level was hated on. and it drop to a 4 star from a 5 because of kids like Bonner123. If i were you i'd republish all your wind levels and your latest one. Until you achieve your real goal.
Never give up!


I hope not! I recently added him to my friends list!


Anyway as for republishing and all which has been said above...

I think that if someone enjoys creating then they should/could spend as much time as they want making a level (As long as they don't hit the 170 hour bug!) As for me, I rarely spend more than 5 days making a level- with the exception of Myst (which is my only 3 star level ). Therefore, I don't really mind that much if they don't do amazingly on the cool pages. I can understand if someone's spent ages on a level and they want people to recognise their hard work.

As for republishing... I do try and give my levels a good shot at getting to page 1 by moving them a bit. I don't however lose sleep or my social life over it!

I think it's important to get some recognition if it is genuinely a good level and u put time and effort into it.

That's where this site comes in! The people here are the proper players of lbp and their opinion is all that counts really.		2009-12-15 10:45:00

Author:
ladylyn1
Posts: 836

I was happy with page 5. I was over the moon, until a fellow creator told me , unless you are on page 1 it means nothing. So i had to prove this guy wrong, and i did.

Surely you haven't proved that guy wrong? You've just bought into his mentality. If anything you are now just copying him...

Talk about submitting to peer pressure!




Ok you are wrong there buddy, cause all the logic pack were locked and the only one on cool was a 4 star and republished, so think before you speak. and grow up. I learned this trick from the logic pack team.

We deliberately didn't publish all 17 levels anew for the following reasons:
1. 17 levels created by 5 very well respected creators on the biggest LBP fansite
2. An endorsement from MM
3. The insane amount of polish that was on them.

Would clearly mean that if 17 levels where published at once, then they would have dominated the top couple of pages of cool pages - suffocating the system and punishing anyone who deigned to release at the same time as us.

That was the primary reason - we did not want to take away other creator's chances to get noticed. We did it to benefit others in the community. This did inadvertantly result in a skewwing of the highest rated page which has thankfully been somewhat rectified now. I was secretly pleased when people started downrating us from highest rated out of jealousy. It evened up the playing field somewhat.


Can you say your motives are as selfless?		2009-12-15 10:48:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Ideally, every new level ought to get equal time to be out where people can discover it so that the community--and not the author--can decide which levels ultimately deserve to stick around. This seems to me the only fair way for things to be run.

^ This.


The problem with anyone who thinks that their level should get more attention than its 1 week on cool levels, whatever the reason, is that they are manipulating the system and ruining it for others. How on earth is it right for one creator to think "My level hasn't had enough plays and it should be five stars"? It makes no different if they want to be the highest rated creator or if they just want more people to enjoy their level. Ultimately the community are the ones who mkake the decision, and if they decide to rate something 4 stars, then it's probably for a reason.

Every level should get an equal chance at being played and making it ot page 1 of cool levels or highest rated. If certain people abuse the system by locking and republishing levels to get there, then it's not fair to the honest creators who don't do it. Everybody should get an equal chance.





Anyway, just want to add something else after reading what fijski8 has been saying about wanting levels rated 5 stars.

Because 5 (and 1 for that matter) are at the end of the rating scale, it's incredibly unlikely that even the best levels will get that as an average. 4 stars is much more likely because for every person that rates low (and there will always be plenty), other people can rate higher to bring it back up. But that can't happen if you want an averga of 5 stars.

Put it this way - if 5,000 people play and rate your level, you'd need at least over half of those to rate it 5 stars, and that's only if the other half rate it no lower than 4. Add all the poeple who rate 1, 2 and 3 stars into the mix, and you're probably looking at needing about 4,500 out of those 5,000 to rate 5 stars. Unless you've made the best level ever, you're never going to get it.		2009-12-15 11:01:00

Author:
Nuclearfish
Posts: 927

I've been following this thread and wanted to make a few observations (for AND against some of this):

1. I think this is a great debate, but actual PSN names such as fijski8 should not have been targeted in the first post.... this put him on the defensive which really isn't fair before the subject has been discussed.

2. Yes, it is up to the community as a whole to decide ratings, but unfortunately because of the lack of targeting your level towards an audience (such as lack of difficulty and genre categories to steer young players away, PLUS others low rating levels to sabotage them) means we all have had to do SOME manipulation to protect our work... such as getting high ratings at the beginning which protects the level to some extent on cool pages.

3. This thread is really arguing several different concepts: what MM ALLOWS you to do, and what is COURTEOUS to do. So, flooding the top of cool pages with the same levels over and over again while other creators' levels that they worked just as long and hard on have difficulty rising.

To an extent, protecting the ratings of your levels and republishing to get as much bang for your buck in the first 7 days is necessary, but just because you CAN keep republishing the same level, please try not to be a glutton and take a bigger piece of the pie than you need. Maybe spend some time instead looking for some deserving levels further down on cool pages and help give them a bit of a boost.... or take a few nice pictures of yourself in other levels and put some nice comments - which also attracts plays (by the way, based on nice pictures and comments from fijski8, I have enjoyed many of his levels - so this definately works and I'm not targeting him in my statement).

Think of it as an actual community where it's sometimes more fun to give than receive.		2009-12-15 13:25:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Ccubbage, regarding your statement in number 1, I made that decision to provide the facts needed because I knew certain members would completely write this thread off if I didn't have any facts to back up my statements, I didn't exactly enjoy typing in others names but I knew it had to be done.

Ladylyn, you quoted the wrong person.		2009-12-15 14:01:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

Wait, how do you know those levels aren't jiri's? I have him added and I made the seals for his levels (arizona and temple of darkness anyways). Why say this?
Anyway onto the main subject I agree that publishing levels over and over is wrong. I have republished my levels several times but ONLY to fix things or alter things (that are not invisible dark matter).
For example, my CC09 entry kept rolling forwards, I fixed it. Then I realised that maybe I should add some more scenery. Just little things like this are why I republish.		2009-12-15 16:23:00

Author:
Jedi_1993
Posts: 1518

sometimes i republish my levels once or twice because frankly, it kind of ****** me off when i spend like a month or two on a level only to have it get 14 plays and 3 stars. nothing ever comes of it though, i just get another 15 or so plays before it's buried again. bleh.2009-12-15 16:36:00

Author:
Unknown User

sometimes i republish my levels once or twice because frankly, it kind of ****** me off when i spend like a month or two on a level only to have it get 14 plays and 3 stars. nothing ever comes of it though, i just get another 15 or so plays before it's buried again. bleh.

I agree with this because there are plenty of well made levels I've seen that are lost because theres too many bomb levels published thats my reason for republishing		2009-12-15 17:39:00

Author:
kevin2314
Posts: 59

I'm a bit sat on the fence with this, I'm afraid.

There's nothing wrong with aspirations. If certain authors want to republish to try and get the ratings they think their levels deserve, or if they have a 'trick' to help in that goal, then that is their decision. The trouble is, of course, is that if some of these levels DO get to Highest Rated, then they may be more likely to attract more hostility (which, ironically, is the reason stated for the lower rating in the first place). It's a risky business.

Some authors create for themselves, and/or their friends. Some want lots of hearts, some want high ratings.

It may be thought of as dubious behaviour to manipulate the system for high ratings, but isn't it fair to also say that players who protect their levels from the highest Cool Pages because of ratings or play/heart ratios are doing a similar thing, i.e. protecting their ratios/ratings?

But whatever the consensus of opinion is, it's a game. If people are angry that '300 prizes in 30 seconds' is rated 5 stars, then take it with a pinch of salt or play something else.

If you're expecting fellow humans to all be fair and just, you might want to rethink your expectations.		2009-12-15 18:01:00

Author:
MrsSpookyBuz
Posts: 1492

I'm a bit sat on the fence with this, I'm afraid.

There's nothing wrong with aspirations. If certain authors want to republish to try and get the ratings they think their levels deserve, or if they have a 'trick' to help in that goal, then that is their decision. The trouble is, of course, is that if some of these levels DO get to Highest Rated, then they may be more likely to attract more hostility (which, ironically, is the reason stated for the lower rating in the first place). It's a risky business.

Some authors create for themselves, and/or their friends. Some want lots of hearts, some want high ratings.

It may be thought of as dubious behaviour to manipulate the system for high ratings, but isn't it fair to also say that players who protect their levels from the highest Cool Pages because of ratings or play/heart ratios are doing a similar thing, i.e. protecting their ratios/ratings?

But whatever the consensus of opinion is, it's a game. If people are angry that '300 prizes in 30 seconds' is rated 5 stars, then take it with a pinch of salt or play something else.

If you're expecting fellow humans to all be fair and just, you might want to rethink your expectations.
Exactly... that's why I wish there wasn't direct PSN's mentioned, possibly embarrassing people who weren't under the impression that they were doing anything wrong.

The fact is, it's a game. People play it for fun, and they come here for fun. We don't want to ruin their experience by targetting them as if they were doing something wrong.

Oh, and 1 more thing to add - people have been complaining that there aren't very many good levels on cool pages.... looking at it optimistically, at LEAST republishing a level puts a better quality level up and gives people something to do besides playing bomb survival levels.		2009-12-15 18:30:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

If you're expecting fellow humans to all be fair and just, you might want to rethink your expectations.

Oh, how right you are.		2009-12-15 18:41:00

Author:
RagTagPwner
Posts: 344

I totally agree with what MrsSpookyBuz stated. Sure its selfish to manipulate the system (use a strategy) to give your level a better chance, buts its just a game. The purpose of publishing a level is to show the community what you spent so much time and effort creating. If you feel you could do better ratings by publishing again then do it. Publishing again just to achieve the same result from previously seems a little pointless to me though.

As for the republishing technique, I hate it. I only do so during the first 12 hours after publishing. After that I just leave it alone unless I make alterations. There needs to be a bump limit or something as Its not about which levels are good anymore but who will republish the most. Dont feel that you are holding good levels back by using it though. Think your keeping the terrible jump, race & bomb levels from getting more attention .		2009-12-15 19:18:00

Author:
SteveBigGuns
Posts: 423

Wait, how do you know those levels aren't jiri's? I have him added and I made the seals for his levels (arizona and temple of darkness anyways). Why say this?
Anyway onto the main subject I agree that publishing levels over and over is wrong. I have republished my levels several times but ONLY to fix things or alter things (that are not invisible dark matter).
For example, my CC09 entry kept rolling forwards, I fixed it. Then I realised that maybe I should add some more scenery. Just little things like this are why I republish.

They aren't his levels, I've seen others who have published the same exact levels, and I didn't even mention the Batman level or the light show one, none of which he made, they're all copies as well. I'd tell you to ask him but I'm sure he'll deny it just like he did the other week.		2009-12-15 19:19:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

fijski8,

Isn't it the same to spam the cool level pages for trophies/hearts/play or for getting on the highest rated page? In both cases the goal is moot (imo) and both are cluttering the cool level pages. Why not simply make more levels? Also, your older levels will always get more plays because you make new ones. It's actually cool to see this happen. Also, the more you continue creating and the more you will improve, don't be attached too much to old levels. Maybe they don't need to come back. Might not be your best work, maybe you'll do better with new stuff.

.

...Couldn't agree more.		2009-12-15 20:50:00

Author:
KoRnDawwg
Posts: 1424

We need a new system. It can only be implemented by the use of 600,000 guinea pigs....

I don't know what I'm supposed to say about this thread, but it's very interesting.

I'd just do what I always do and agree with cubbage 		2009-12-15 20:55:00

Author:
KQuinn94Z
Posts: 1758

There needs to be a bump limit or something

I've been saying this for awhile - daily bump limit. I'd even split republish for changes (update) and republish for bump (some other term) as separate, to give people control of their 5 bumps a day (or whatever).		2009-12-15 21:00:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Exactly... that's why I wish there wasn't direct PSN's mentioned, possibly embarrassing people who weren't under the impression that they were doing anything wrong.

The fact is, it's a game. People play it for fun, and they come here for fun. We don't want to ruin their experience by targetting them as if they were doing something wrong.

Oh, and 1 more thing to add - people have been complaining that there aren't very many good levels on cool pages.... looking at it optimistically, at LEAST republishing a level puts a better quality level up and gives people something to do besides playing bomb survival levels.


The part I bolded is complete bs, 4 out of the 6 authors I listed have been manipulating the system for months, I have no doubt in my mind they knew what they were up to.


As for the rest of your post, I'm a bit surprised you said that because not too long ago you had a different stance on the same issue in this thread.
https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=12392&page=3

I'm basically arguing the same thing you did some months ago, you know what these creators are doing is wrong.		2009-12-15 21:40:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

But whatever the consensus of opinion is, it's a game. If people are angry that '300 prizes in 30 seconds' is rated 5 stars, then take it with a pinch of salt or play something else.

If you're expecting fellow humans to all be fair and just, you might want to rethink your expectations.

Playing something else is just what I've been finding myself doing more and more of.

But I haven't lost all hope in LBP. There is merit in having such a discussion where we try to suggest improvements to the system that better take into account that selfish nature of humans that we've come to expect. I mean, it's not impossible that if enough of us were to make the case to Media Molecule, they might possibly listen and implement a fix. A number of possible fixes do exist which would be quite simple and easy to implement. But the first step, perhaps, is wider-spread recognition of the problem.		2009-12-16 02:23:00

Author:
zabel99
Posts: 179

The part I bolded is complete bs, 4 out of the 6 authors I listed have been manipulating the system for months, I have no doubt in my mind they knew what they were up to.


As for the rest of your post, I'm a bit surprised you said that because not too long ago you had a different stance on the same issue in this thread.
https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=12392&page=3

I'm basically arguing the same thing you did some months ago, you know what these creators are doing is wrong.
There's a key difference between the Centurian24 thread and this... Centurian24 was republishing MANY levels at the same time constantly and trying to hit 5 levels at the top of cool pages at the same time.

This thread, as far as I can see, is talking about a totally different thing - should you republish your levels to get attention again?

And even in the Centurian24 thread I didn't like targeting an individual - he is doing something that the system allows you to do. Whether "I" would do it or not, he may consider it part of the game. The problem I had with the centurian24 thread is that it was glorifying a practice which was fairly easily to emulate, and inadvertantly encouraged discourteous behavior.

Until there ARE actually rules, I don't like the practice of launching a personal attack on people who are playing the game differently. I think everyone watching cool pages would have known what you were talking about whether individuals were mentioned or not.

I personally have no issue at all with people republishing their levels - everyone has a right to have levels float to the top of cool pages more than once if they want to - as long as it isn't considered breaching the EULA they agreed to with MM.		2009-12-16 12:00:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

If anything... you people should learn to RESPECT other peoples opineons, to be honest... ill tell you something... me and fij both agree with.. that most of the people on this site are just jealous. You all Decide to make all these points to stop us republishing. But whats the point in making a level thats not going to get appreciated? You guys dont understand what we think about. We think that making a level for maby 2 months is not worth it if we are only gona get 1000 plays. And to be honest. no offence... but that sucks absolutly. especially wen your level is a 5 star level. People are doing this because they want more credit for their levels. And you people just dont want them to get it. so heres a theory... what if you guys are the ones spamming 1 star just because we republish our levels? We just get sick and tired of these endless 1 stars on levels by 5 year olds... or possibly you. (OH YEH I JUST SAID IT! YEH WHAT U GONA DO NOW!) Dont try to change our opineons. becuase you wont. End of story. AND... theres no reason to talk about this. just ignore it and play the game. its a bit saad if you ask me. (And one more thing. SHUT UP about my grammar! thankyou)2009-12-16 12:26:00

Author:
Tawarf
Posts: 457

The part I bolded is complete bs, 4 out of the 6 authors I listed have been manipulating the system for months, I have no doubt in my mind they knew what they were up to.

Just to clarify here. CCubbage never said that they didn't know what they were doing, he said they didn't think it was wrong - they didn't think they were doing anything wrong. They probably still don't. Part of CCubbage's point is that he is saying "who are we to judge the morality of this?". And it's a very good point. Who are we, that we can decide that our personal moral outlook is the only correct one?


This isn't a clear-cut moral issue and as others have pointed out this is just another way of playing the game. Think of it like camping in an FPS deathmatch: some people use it to their advantage to essentially boost them in competitive aspects of the game, some people view it as dark tactics, to be shunned. No one is actually "right", it's all down to personal opinion.


@Tawarf: Has it occured to you that some of us don't need a squillion plays to feel good about ourselves. I have no interest in creating levels for the mainstream of LBP, so I'm comfortable with my 1650 plays on a level that took 4 months of hard work to create. I'm not jealous of anyone's hearts and plays and I still maintain that chasing them for extrinsic reward is "saaad".		2009-12-16 12:27:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Well there. Then just respect other peoples opineons. And dont ruin the game for others. if this is how we enjoy the game. so be it. just ignore us.2009-12-16 12:35:00

Author:
Tawarf
Posts: 457

I think locking your level to ensure its place on the highest rated page is a bit sad tbh, but each to their own.

I see why people don't like the republish technique, but I don't really have an issue with it in all honesty. after your 7 days are up, it's all over so why not give it a chance to be played? that's why you made it for the most part. if you don't do it, chances are it'll sink without a trace. given that for the most part crap levels disappear and good levels end up with thousands of plays I don't really see the harm in it all.

also, most people do something to make sure their levels are successful. not that I'm having a go at anyone but there are loads of folk who don't republish and are proud of it, but would never release a level without making sure as many people as possible know about it so they get good ratings early on. the guys who make sure their PSN name is front and centre when the level loads are doing so to make sure people recognise the name and look out for them in future.		2009-12-16 12:36:00

Author:
Matt 82
Posts: 1096

If anything... you people should learn to RESPECT other peoples opineons, to be honest... ill tell you something... me and fij both agree with.. that most of the people on this site are just jealous. You all Decide to make all these points to stop us republishing. But whats the point in making a level thats not going to get appreciated? You guys dont understand what we think about. We think that making a level for maby 2 months is not worth it if we are only gona get 1000 plays. And to be honest. no offence... but that sucks absolutly. especially wen your level is a 5 star level. People are doing this because they want more credit for their levels. And you people just dont want them to get it. so heres a theory... what if you guys are the ones spamming 1 star just because we republish our levels? We just get sick and tired of these endless 1 stars on levels by 5 year olds... or possibly you. (OH YEH I JUST SAID IT! YEH WHAT U GONA DO NOW!) Dont try to change our opineons. becuase you wont. End of story. AND... theres no reason to talk about this. just ignore it and play the game. its a bit saad if you ask me. (And one more thing. SHUT UP about my grammar! thankyou)

This thread is about republishing old levels and not "republishing your level in its first seven days" (cool level pages time) wich is encouraged here in this community.

.		2009-12-16 12:39:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I know the 7 days rule. Im just trying to stand up for fijski. because..... you guys should just respect what we do and not make such a big prob over it like jeriko or russel. personnally i find them funny. just dont care. THIS IS ONLY A GAME2009-12-16 12:41:00

Author:
Tawarf
Posts: 457

ps3 ran out of space.

to summarise, I think republishing is fine as long as it's not taken too far i.e. once your seven days are up, leave it there. republishing 5 levels at a time DOES have a detrimental effect on the community however so that practice I would like to see an end of.		2009-12-16 12:43:00

Author:
Matt 82
Posts: 1096

I wish everyone had the same attitude as you.. i truly wish so.2009-12-16 12:44:00

Author:
Tawarf
Posts: 457

I know the 7 days rule. Im just trying to stand up for fijski. because..... you guys should just respect what we do and not make such a big prob over it like jeriko or russel. personnally i find them funny. just dont care. THIS IS ONLY A GAME

You see, this is the kind of attitude I think that is wrong. This is why you see alot of insulting people when playing online, disrespectful players, spammers, cheaters ruining your experiences or even just annoying people on the internet at wide. "It's ok because it's a game", "It's ok because it's internet", both are the same thing and wrong. It's not because it's a game or the internet that you don't have to be considerate for other people. When a game is having a community side, you need to consider other people like in real life and that's it. I mean, this is the idealistic way, this is what should be encouraged. It's about favorising a good experience to everyone. It's not "just a game", it's a micro society of people trying to have fun.

This is why we care when a topic like this pop out. Because we see the big picture behind it all and are considerate for people even if it's "just a game", cluttering the cool level pages for republishing your old old level just for trying to make the highest rated page is not cool.

The cool level pages are the ONLY way to promote your stuff and get some recognition for your hard work. LBP community's side (especially promotion of your stuff) is EXTREMELY BADLY done so we are working with what we have. We are working with what we have but trying to be just and fair with everyone, giving everybody the chance. Republishing your new level in it's first week is perfect fine since it's the only way to give it a chance out there, but your old level doesn't really belong there. He already had its chance and people already decided its fate. To me it's clutter if you publish it again unless it's because you fixed or revamped it. What is there to win with your old level? Don't you have fun creating? Why not make a new level, a BETTER one? At worse if it's the highest rating you seek, why not make those type of popular levels you see in the first page then?

Ultimately we can't prevent people from doing what they really want to do but we can voice our opinions and spread them if we want. Also, opinions are made to be confronted, argued about, improved, changed, etc. And opinion that you keep for yourself or that never evolves becomes stubborness. I don't see this thread as "insulting", I wonder how you can take it personal even if Endless Echo might be a little direct sometimes. It's discussion that's all. We can debate our opinions friendly and respectfully just like I did with this very post.

.		2009-12-16 12:54:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

We think that making a level for maby 2 months is not worth it if we are only gona get 1000 plays. And to be honest. no offence... but that sucks absolutly. especially wen your level is a 5 star level. People are doing this because they want more credit for their levels.

I'm not against republishing, but you should realise that there are other levels out there, decent levels that took a lot of time and effort to create, that haven't even seen 100 plays. Of course you want credit for your work, but so do they.

On another note, you ask for respect, but make baseless accusations against everyone on this forum. That doesn't sound very respectfull.

There. I didn't mention your grammar at all! 		2009-12-16 13:03:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

Yay! no gramar mention! I get annoyed wen i see a really good level with so 100 plays. Well watever. ITS JUST A GAME! ( to annoy you rangerzero)2009-12-16 13:54:00

Author:
Tawarf
Posts: 457

There's only one true master of republishing and that's biddle666.2009-12-16 14:57:00

Author:
BasketSnake
Posts: 2391

Why him???????2009-12-16 15:05:00

Author:
Tawarf
Posts: 457

O, been reading this all for a while now.
And just to clarify why i started doing this n the first place.

1: I released Green aliens 2 a longtime ago, It was a 5 star until the 3rd day with 1000 plays.

That morning i woke up and had seen it was a 4 star and had "thief" pictures uploaded on my level. I was devastated.

My one lucky chance of a 5 star was ruined by an 8 yr old that thought
i stold his level. And he and his friends all rated it 1 star.

There are people in this game that purposely destroy your levels.

2: I caught a clan ( and there are clans in lbp) red handed Rating all my levels 1 star with "rubbish" tags and uploaded Horrible photos on all my levels.

In the end that resulted in my level getting Moderated. Spare Change.


3: I know when some creators release a level they get attacked by these groups just because they think they don"t deserve the hearts they get.

4: I many times released levels to get 1 star and rubbish tag.... Whats all that about.

Is that fair? Is that manipulating the system?

5: The point.... Some creators have to protect thier work. wether it means locking .Using keys. (which is a feature Mm gave eveyone). and republishing or just letting your level stay the way it is.

How you want to play is up to you

Now I and other creators know we get attacked. Using Mm features to the fullest is not Manipulating anything. It is protecting your hard work from these groups.

LBP is a game, everyone plays it differently. My advice is use all Mm features they have given you and don"t depend on cool pages for your hearts. Cool pages isn"t a pretty place anymore. I know when I play i rarely check cool. I check Busiest and Highest rated. And other creators hearted levels.
If you wanna keep thinking cool pages is what lbp is all about, continue to do so.		2009-12-16 15:06:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

I tottally agree with you fij. alothough i dont entirley agree with that statement about cool pages yet.... Cool pages can be fun too. I just want a level wih 34k play..... then im done! ill still try... but maby... not as hard.... this is the reason i republish. just to meet that goal. because that is just such a special number to me....2009-12-16 15:11:00

Author:
Tawarf
Posts: 457

Out of interest..... what happens when you get 34k plays?2009-12-16 15:13:00

Author:
wexfordian
Posts: 1904

I dont know... it just my dream amount of plays... then... maby ill republish less... but im not sure. No one know whats gona happen in da future! so i cant tell seeming as i change my mind quite often. its just.... that number looks really cool!2009-12-16 15:17:00

Author:
Tawarf
Posts: 457

I haven't read everything but I'm going to throw in my thoughts.

Personally, as someone who has had levels on highest rated page 1 regularly, it is a nice feeling, and it does ensure a constant amount of plays on a level. I've had 3 on there for a good few weeks bunch together, which is pretty cool.

HOWEVER, 'cheating' the system to get there doesn't seem right to me. As it just means you don't actually deserve to be there. Now, I know the system isn't great, but that is the system that we have and everyone should play by it. By manipulating it you are just making it worse for your own ends.

There are certain things that I do condone, for example, simply not republishing a level. If you're a recognised creator this definitely helps keep the rating up, and republishing isn't something that you're 'supposed' to do anyway so that is definitely something I would advise.

To a degree, I think locking your level to keep it's ratings up is okay too. BUT, it depends on your motives, for how long, and why. I have done this, Tribal Ruins hit cool page 1 with 1 day left of its 7. It was currently sitting on page 1 of the highest rated too. I decided to lock it for less than 24 hours to ensure that it would mean I'd get a lot more feedback and give people who visit the highest rated (generally better LBP'ers) a chance to play it. This was NOT about having levels on the highest rated or helping my 'reputation'. Merely about ensuring others had a chance to play a level that clearly people were enjoying.

Now if I had to lock the level for 3+ days, I don't believe I would have done this, as then I think it's crossing over into messing with the system too much and really screwing it to get what you want. As I say, I think it depends on your motives.

Apologises for pointing fingers, but the one I have noticed is SteveBigGuns, through looking on LBP and something similar to this thread before, he definitely does manipulate the system as much as possible to ensure his levels get maximum exposure and secure a place on the highest rated page. But, surely by everyone knowing how he's going about getting his levels to these places, it's losing all the merit and reward of doing so?

Locking a level for a little bit if fine, but when you start publishing levels as new and locking the old one to ensure it keeps its rating, then I think you're taking it too far. If you need to do all that to keep the place it has, then it doesn't deserve that place.

I'm not going to fall out with anyone or hold grudges if they want to do these methods. However, I simply don't agree with them.

By actually manipulating the system, when everyone knows you're doing it, you are just showing everyone how much you don't deserve that place. Now while it may fool the kiddies who look at the cool pages and marvel at your number of hearts, the people on forums such as this, know the true methods in which you used to achieve your 'fame'.

Out of those two groups of the community, I know which I'd rather be on.

1 persons feedback on here = 1,000 author hearts, 10,000 plays and all the 'Gd lvl' comments you can muster.		2009-12-16 15:39:00

Author:
jackofcourse
Posts: 1494

O, been reading this all for a while now.
And just to clarify why i started doing this n the first place.

1: I released Green aliens 2 a longtime ago, It was a 5 star until the 3rd day with 1000 plays.

That morning i woke up and had seen it was a 4 star and had "thief" pictures uploaded on my level. I was devastated.

My one lucky chance of a 5 star was ruined by an 8 yr old that thought
i stold his level. And he and his friends all rated it 1 star.

There are people in this game that purposely destroy your levels.

2: I caught a clan ( and there are clans in lbp) red handed Rating all my levels 1 star with "rubbish" tags and uploaded Horrible photos on all my levels.

In the end that resulted in my level getting Moderated. Spare Change.


3: I know when some creators release a level they get attacked by these groups just because they think they don"t deserve the hearts they get.

4: I many times released levels to get 1 star and rubbish tag.... Whats all that about.

Is that fair? Is that manipulating the system?

5: The point.... Some creators have to protect thier work. wether it means locking .Using keys. (which is a feature Mm gave eveyone). and republishing or just letting your level stay the way it is.

How you want to play is up to you

Now I and other creators know we get attacked. Using Mm features to the fullest is not Manipulating anything. It is protecting your hard work from these groups.

LBP is a game, everyone plays it differently. My advice is use all Mm features they have given you and don"t depend on cool pages for your hearts. Cool pages isn"t a pretty place anymore. I know when I play i rarely check cool. I check Busiest and Highest rated. And other creators hearted levels.
If you wanna keep thinking cool pages is what lbp is all about, continue to do so.

I have also seen jack lock his level, yes. He locked 2 of his 5 star levels. And one reason he got the 5s Is he never used the republish trick. When you use the republish Trick it oputs your level on page 1 cool temporarly. Thats another reason why i tried.
THis method Jack uses works.

Wex and Ricky level got destroyed from exposure to cool page 1 too long. You both were on highest rated page 1. You both would have way more plays and hearts on Snakes and Jimmy then would have now if you kept your materpieces to the players that appreciate a puzzle or 3.

My advice to a good level that takes using your mind. Keep it off cool page 1. And use the lock feature Mm gave you.

I didn"t use republish trick for Jones and The Demon. It just got to page 1 and had 3 days left. No way was i going to let it get destroyed by kids that coul not beat it. Thats why it was locked for 3 days. It had Keys in all my levels. But i protected it from the mass that don"t know a good level when they see one.		2009-12-16 15:54:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

I have also seen jack lock his level, yes. He locked 2 of his 5 star levels. And one reason he got the 5s Is he never used the republish trick. When you use the republish Trick it oputs your level on page 1 cool temporarly. Thats another reason why i tried.
THis method Jack uses works.

Wex and Ricky level got destroyed from exposure to cool page 1 too long. You both were on highest rated page 1. You both would have way more plays and hearts on Snakes and Jimmy then would have now if you kept your materpieces to the players that appreciate a puzzle or 3.

My advice to a good level that takes using your mind. Keep it off cool page 1. And use the lock feature Mm gave you.

I didn"t use republish trick for Jones and The Demon. It just got to page 1 and had 3 days left. No way was i going to let it get destroyed by kids that coul not beat it. Thats why it was locked for 3 days. It had Keys in all my levels. But i protected it from the mass that don"t know a good level when they see one.

As I just explained in my previous post (not sure if you read it or not) I locked Tribal Ruins for less than 24 hours as it reached page 1.

I just had a think through my other levels and I just realised you probably mean how I published Industrial Assistance.

That was a two player level, that STARTED as locked. I published an introduction level with the key in for Industrial Assistance that was obtainable by merely having two players.

So as long as they had two players present they could do whatever they want with Industrial Assistance. This was just so people couldn't enter the level alone .I also unlocked this after the first 2-3 days (can't remember exactly).		2009-12-16 16:01:00

Author:
jackofcourse
Posts: 1494

I guess I don't understand why a level needs 5 stars...?

I have levels that I like to consider popular, and they all have a bevy of plays, but all of them are 4 stars. What's so bad about that? Not everyone likes every level, so why do you fight so hard for recognition as such. You can show me the "best" level LBP has to offer, and I assure you that many people will not enjoy it. Why? Because people's tastes are dissimilar. Stop trying to please everyone else, and just have fun with it. You're never going to find satisfaction out of playing LBP if you tie your experience to level ratings.

Personal Satisfaction > 1 person enjoying the level > 100 people hating it.		2009-12-16 16:01:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Wex and Ricky level got destroyed from exposure to cool page 1 too long. You both were on highest rated page 1. You both would have way more plays and hearts on Snakes and Jimmy then would have now if you kept your materpieces to the players that appreciate a puzzle or 3.

But I don't mind that. Everyone I wanted to play it played it. Got some great feedback from the people I care about and I moved on to my next endevour. A few kids low rating me down to 4 stars is hardly the end of the world now is it.		2009-12-16 16:03:00

Author:
wexfordian
Posts: 1904

Yes, I agree totaly Jack. What you did was ingenouis. Demon didn"t use the republish trick and I only locked it while it was on cool page 1. Unfortunately it got there in 4 days..... so i had to wait 3 full days.. it was torture.

But the reason why people use republish trick on a 4 star level, is because if it doesn"t get 5 stars. It reall does get burried in the sea of 1.6 million levels. Unless it stay on cool page 1 for days to get 3k hearts.

Now you have to admit.. 5 stars does do alot for a level. Your levels had a little as 5000 views when it was done on cool pages and because of the 5 star, they now have 80,000 views.

Some 4 star levels need the republish trick or they will get burried behind Jump for life 9, Hotel, train bomb levels, and worse yet.... You can"t beat this level!.

There is 50 cool pages... if you let the server settle long enough you will see all 50 and where your level lands. If it is a level that will get played 1 or 2 times. You will never get the exposure you deserve. because people are replaying the Jumps and bombs levels 20 each.		2009-12-16 16:20:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

Personally, I don't care if anyone republishes during the 7 days. I've done it myself, but usually stop once it has hit page 3 unless I am fixing issues or decided to add something else past that point.

The only other republishing I have ever done is in fixing an older level or posting an ad to my next level in a more popular one. However I found that was a bit of a double edged sword as the newer level was quite a bit more difficult. So having those folks visit it I think helped make it a 3 star level as well as the ratings bug that was around when I mistakenly decided to publish.

That being said, I have been asked many times by several creators to delete and start over with Space Escape and I really won't do it. I think it is clearly better than 3 stars, but I love all the great comments on that level as well it showing up on quite a few amazing creators hearted list. That alone makes me happier than if it had 5 stars.

However to the other point of deleting and republishing older levels as well as locking them at a certain star level just amazes me. I guess I don't understand that at all. Does that mean that you lock it and don't give out any keys? So what is the point if nobody can play your level?

To the point of making it to the first page of the Top Rated Levels... well, I can honestly say it was a treat for sure to find I had made it there. To be there for over 8 months was kinda freaky, but you know what accomplishment made me happier than anything? It was when I got a spotlight for my last level here on LBPC. That means more to me than any of the embarrassingly silly amount of hearts and plays on that "other level".

I think the best levels I have ever done are not the ones I have competed, but what I am currently working on as well as what I have not yet created. That to me is the greatest part about this game.

I feel we all improve if we keep creating and listening to our 'oh so special feedback', that those will be the most amazing levels. Those incredible moments where you reach into your imagination and start to give all that amazing stuff life and finally get to share that with the community.

So if you already have 20 levels, maybe you should make a new PSN and keep on creating! 		2009-12-16 16:24:00

Author:
jwwphotos
Posts: 11383

Jww needs to republish his space escape......
I bring all my friends to it. and will always be in my top 10 hearted forever.... until part 2 comes.		2009-12-16 16:25:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

That being said, I have been asked many times by several creators to delete and start over with Space Escape and I really won't do it. I think it is clearly better than 3 stars, but I love all the great comments on that level as well it showing up on quite a few amazing creators hearted list. That alone makes me happier than if it had 5 stars.


Same for me with Sack's On The Beach. But I'm not republishing it either. I might revamp it quite completely with the Pirate of Carribean pack though. But even then I wouldn't erase the original, I would use another publishing spot instead.
Also, I know ALOT of levels that are 3 or 4 stars and are SO better than many 5 stars ones. I think people simply see something that doesn't really exist in all those rating fancy. Even REAL reviews of professional games don't mean much...

.		2009-12-16 17:29:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

So you can get to the Highest Rated page by NOT letting people play your level?

Awesome and inspirational!!		2009-12-16 17:50:00

Author:
julesyjules
Posts: 1156

So you can get to the Highest Rated page by NOT letting people play your level?

Awesome and inspirational!!
It doesn't appear until there are a certain number of plays on it, but yes. And keep in mind, the less plays that are on it when it hits page 1 of highest rated, the easier it is for people to rate it down.

So.... if people don't feel it's ACTUALLY a highest rated level, chances are it won't be there for very long. So, there is only so far you can really cheat the system.		2009-12-16 18:22:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

I've read most of this thread and just wanted to say what I think:

I know what you all mean when you say "I want a level on the highest rated page", but I think there are better ways to do so than to simply republish a level until it finally reaches there. I have nothing against it, but I just kind of think that it takes the fun out of LBP when you do so, because we see the same levels every week on Cool Levels and are missing out on some other great levels released by lesser known authors.

It also can't be very satisfying if any of these methods actually get you to the highest rated page because you didn't do it entirely fair. I remember when I first released my level "The Unfair Platformer 2" my expectations for it weren't very high, I was hoping that it would do well, but if it didn't I wasn't going to republish it until it did do well, even though I put a lot of time and effort in to it. It was a great feeling after it ended up on the highest rated page after the first week, but I know if I had to republish it in order for it to make it there, it wouldn't have felt near as good.

Don't release levels aiming/expecting to get on the highest rated page because you're probably going to end up being dissapointed, Release levels because you want to show the world what you have created and don't worry about what kind of ratings and plays that it gets.		2009-12-16 19:13:00

Author:
Dr_Vab
Posts: 134

I only decided to try publishing Mario ps3 & Digitized Reality new again as previously they went from page 1 of highest rated down to 2 the last day left on the cool pages. They only began to moveback up after they left the cool levels which made me think that the decline was obviously due to jealously as they were attracting around 250 people at a time (easy target for 1 stars). When publishing new again, all I did was limit exposure by locking the first few days. When they left the cool pages they weren't on page 1 of highest rated. They were around pages 2 & 3 with around 2000 plays. They deserved to be there again. Also 8-10 hours was spent on further improvements. All I did was keep the jealous players away this time by avoiding excessive cool page exposure. Now I get people playing the levels who actually want to play them and give good feeback on a consistent basis. Most levels get to page 1 of highest rated by unintentionally doing the same thing though not being hugely successful on the cool pages.2009-12-16 20:18:00

Author:
SteveBigGuns
Posts: 423

Before I get the chance to respond to a few peoples' posts I'd like to make it clear that this thread isn't about the standard republishing all of us do, I could care less how many times you republish your levels to get them up higher through the Cool Pages within it's 7 days. What this thread is about, is the way many people have been manipulating the system by completely republishing their levels for the attention.


There's a key difference between the Centurian24 thread and this... Centurian24 was republishing MANY levels at the same time constantly and trying to hit 5 levels at the top of cool pages at the same time.

This thread, as far as I can see, is talking about a totally different thing - should you republish your levels to get attention again?

And even in the Centurian24 thread I didn't like targeting an individual - he is doing something that the system allows you to do. Whether "I" would do it or not, he may consider it part of the game. The problem I had with the centurian24 thread is that it was glorifying a practice which was fairly easily to emulate, and inadvertantly encouraged discourteous behavior.

Until there ARE actually rules, I don't like the practice of launching a personal attack on people who are playing the game differently. I think everyone watching cool pages would have known what you were talking about whether individuals were mentioned or not.

I personally have no issue at all with people republishing their levels - everyone has a right to have levels float to the top of cool pages more than once if they want to - as long as it isn't considered breaching the EULA they agreed to with MM.

It's the same thing, what Centurion did those many months ago is a mirror of what many are doing now, the only difference is he did it during a period of a week. Now people are completely republishing their levels one at a time during a period of months.

You said this in the thread;

"How many levels can fit on page 1 at one time? 20 or 30 max? How many people are publishing levels every week? Thousands? What happens if everyone decides to start republishing their levels that already have 10,000 plays over and over in groups so they can push all their levels up at one time?

This system is simply not designed to handle it, and many deserving creators will be pushed out by others that can sit there and publish constantly every day.

And all the creators at once getting this idea on this site is a dangerous thing IMO. All I'm trying to do is pose a different viewpoint so that MAYBE new levels including mine get a chance to get some plays."


-You are now defending a practice that you once called "dangerous." Also, you've been doing it for months now, it's spelled Centurion24, not with an "a" but with an "o".


Tawarf, regarding your first post, do you really think everyone on these forums is jealous of you and spam 1 star ratings on your level and you claim? Really? The reason your levels do as poorly as they do is not because of haters.

Jackofcourse, you are one of my favorite creators(I think I've already stated that numerous times in the past) but you are lieing when you say you only locked your Tribal Ruins level (during it's 7 days) for less than 24 hours. I remember perfectly that when it got onto page 1 you locked the level for 3 days until the level's 7 days were over. You then unlocked it knowing it was on Page 1 of the Highest Rated where the audience is different from the ones on the Cool Levels, they tend to rate higher. As for the rest of your post, I agree.		2009-12-16 21:17:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

Jackofcourse, you are one of my favorite creators(I think I've already stated that numerous times in the past) but you are lieing when you say you only locked your Tribal Ruins level (during it's 7 days) for less than 24 hours. I remember perfectly that when it got onto page 1 you locked the level for 3 days until the level's 7 days were over. You then unlocked it knowing it was on Page 1 of the Highest Rated where the audience is different from the ones on the Cool Levels, they tend to rate higher. As for the rest of your post, I agree.

Yes, I explained the reasons for locking it in my post. As far as I remember I locked it for the day at the most. I'll see if I can can check and edit it in here...

However, back then, such methods weren't really recognised or common. I dunno whether than justifies it or not though...does something become 'more wrong' as more people start to do it? Probably not 		2009-12-16 23:18:00

Author:
jackofcourse
Posts: 1494

Tawarf, regarding your first post, do you really think everyone on these forums is jealous of you and spam 1 star ratings on your level and you claim? Really? The reason your levels do as poorly as they do is not because of haters, seriously have you played your own work?


Come on, I hope ur not being sincere... but saying things like this does put you in a bad light.

As for republishing... I have just lost one of my levels for the SECOND time. I'm not gonna push it at all like I did on it's maiden voyage... It shouldn't push other people's work off the cool pages on its 3rd time of being completely republished.

Btw I did post a comment in the Help section devoted to why I lost the level. It would be really helpful if anyone has had any similar experiences in the past.		2009-12-16 23:33:00

Author:
ladylyn1
Posts: 836

Yes, I explained the reasons for locking it in my post. As far as I remember I locked it for the day at the most. I'll see if I can can check and edit it in here...

However, back then, such methods weren't really recognised or common. I dunno whether than justifies it or not though...does something become 'more wrong' as more people start to do it? Probably not

I never would compare you to any of the others that have manipulated the system. I do not think you are that type of person who seeks all the attention they can get, in fact judging from your posts of the past you seem to be the complete opposite of that. I was just pointing out that Tribal Ruins was locked for 3 days while on Cool Page 1, I remember it vividly because I remember wanting to play it but couldn't because it was locked.


Ladylyn, you are probably right, I now recognize that that what I said to Tawarf was not the most polite thing, but I felt angry when he basically made the accusation that everyone on this forum is jealous of him, which simply is not true.		2009-12-17 01:50:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

Ok, Endless Echo is a joke. What are you the LBP police?

1: Tawarf happens to have fans he does have 1000 author hearts. Saying his levels suck just shows how dumb you really are.

2: You are obvouisly a kizz azz.... "You are not like the people i mentioned mr. Jack of course" even though he did the same locking technique 2x.

3:You don't even have the guts to put up your psn so we can see your work in lbp.


Get a life kid. You have nothing beter to do then watch what others do, kizz butt to who YOU think deserves it, and troll around lbpc attacking who you think don"t deserve what they have got.

You are a hater... end of story.

Grow up. And put your psn on here so we can try your levels.		2009-12-17 03:44:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

It's the same thing, what Centurion did those many months ago is a mirror of what many are doing now, the only difference is he did it during a period of a week. Now people are completely republishing their levels one at a time during a period of months.

-You are now defending a practice that you once called "dangerous."
First of all, I'm not defending any practice, and if you're going to start trying to point on inconsistencies in my posts, I would suggest studying them first.

In the "centurion24" thread, I was specifically discussing pushing many levels up on cool pages at once - so that while a couple levels are reaching the top of cool pages, you are advertising several new ones on those and keeping many levels constantly in circulation on cool pages pushing the other levels up. With this practice, it's possible to constantly take up MANY slots on page 1 at the same time. This did not seem courteous to me then, and it doesn't now.

However, now you're discussing simply republishing levels.... which is an ENTIRELY different thing altogether. And I've seen many creators who were not happy with the initial launch of their levels have done this.... including Wexfordian and myself. Maybe not excessively, but we've done it. (I republished Splat Invaders Saga once, and Wexfordian republished Pinball Wizard once)

And if you took the time to really read the posts I made in this thread, rather than looking JUST for the things you disagreed with, you'd see I am not defending the practice at all. Let me quote from myself on THIS thread:


This thread is really arguing several different concepts: what MM ALLOWS you to do, and what is COURTEOUS to do. So, flooding the top of cool pages with the same levels over and over again while other creators' levels that they worked just as long and hard on have difficulty rising.

Does this sound like I'm defending the practice? The truth is, I'm an open minded thinker who sees many sides to things - I don't have tunnel vision like you do.		2009-12-17 04:02:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Ok, Endless Echo is a joke. What are you the LBP police?

1: Tawarf happens to have fans he does have 1000 author hearts. Saying his levels suck just shows how dumb you really are.

2: You are obvouisly a kizz azz.... "You are not like the people i mentioned mr. Jack of course" even though he did the same locking technique 2x.

3:You don't even have the guts to put up your psn so we can see your work in lbp.


Get a life kid. You have nothing beter to do then watch what others do, kizz butt to who YOU think deserves it, and troll around lbpc attacking who you think don"t deserve what they have got.

You are a hater... end of story.

Grow up. And put your psn on here so we can try your levels.
Wow, that's a new side of you, isn't it fijski?

1. I never did say his levels "suck", and again with the author hearts. He could have a million author hearts, that does not mean he's the best creator. Look at russellsmuscles, how many author hearts does he have? I could name dozens of authors who have significantly less author hearts who are much better creators. Your talent as a creator should not be measured by how many author hearts you have.

2. Me a kiss ***? No, never. I am not like some people on this forum, I say what I believe, never once will you find me on here kissing someone's ***. If I love your level I will write an entire paragraph on everything I loved about it and if I think your level is bad I will tell you it's bad. What I said to Jack, I firmly believe. Besides what do I get from complementing him? What do I gain? Nothing, I am honest and have my own strong opinions which at times offend a few.

3. I don't have to post my Psn ID, why would I? Because people like you demand it? No, never. I'll give you a clue though, I have a little over 1 thousand hearts(which I earned the right way, unlike you) and a few levels published with hopefully a few others published in the next few months. I have been playing this game since day 1 and like everyone else I have had my ups and downs, does that make me a bad person?


And isn't it so easy for you to call me a hater? You do it because you have nothing on me and don't want to continue the discussion which is being had in this thread.


Either today or tomorrow I will send Spaff a link to this thread, this is a huge problem in the community, and I really would like for him to see the discussion being had in here although some people have tried to derail it by making false accusations against me and others within the community.

Edit-

Ccubbage, I did read all your posts many times over, and you do seem to defend the practice, you had a different opinion in the Centurion thread than the one you had in you previous posts in this thread. And I still maintain that it's the same issue being discussed, I won't argue with you anymore because the thread isn't about you or me. You can choose to respond to what I have just said but I will not.		2009-12-17 04:11:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

That's all Jeriko has been doing with his newest level :L2009-12-17 04:31:00

Author:
Ricano
Posts: 434

Wow, that's a new side of you, isn't it fijski?

1. I never did say his levels "suck", and again with the author hearts. He could have a million author hearts, that does not mean he's the best creator. Look at russellsmuscles, how many author hearts does he have? I could name dozens of authors who have significantly less author hearts who are much better creators. Your talent as a creator should not be measured by how many author hearts you have.

2. Me a kiss ***? No, never. I am not like some people on this forum, I say what I believe, never once will you find me on here kissing someone's ***. If I love your level I will write an entire paragraph on everything I loved about it and if I think your level is bad I will tell you it's bad. What I said to Jack, I firmly believe. Besides what do I get from complementing him? What do I gain? Nothing, I am honest and have my own strong opinions which at times offend a few.

3. I don't have to post my Psn ID, why would I? Because people like you demand it? No, never. I'll give you a clue though, I have a little over 1 thousand hearts(which I earned the right way, unlike you) and a few levels published with hopefully a few others published in the next few months. I have been playing this game since day 1 and like everyone else I have had my ups and downs, does that make me a bad person?


And isn't it so easy for you to call me a hater? You do it because you have nothing on me and don't want to continue the discussion which is being had in this thread.


Either today or tomorrow I will send Spaff a link to this thread, this is a huge problem in the community, and I really would like for him to see the discussion being had in here although some people have tried to derail it by making false accusations against me and others within the community.

Edit-

Ccubbage, I did read all your posts many times over, and you do seem to defend the practice, you had a different opinion in the Centurion thread than the one you had in you previous posts in this thread. And I still maintain that it's the same issue being discussed, I won't argue with you anymore because the thread isn't about you or me. You can choose to respond to what I have just said but I will not.


You are a noob echo, get a life...		2009-12-17 05:11:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

Ok, Endless Echo is a joke. What are you the LBP police?

1: Tawarf happens to have fans he does have 1000 author hearts. Saying his levels suck just shows how dumb you really are.

2: You are obvouisly a kizz azz.... "You are not like the people i mentioned mr. Jack of course" even though he did the same locking technique 2x.

3:You don't even have the guts to put up your psn so we can see your work in lbp.


Get a life kid. You have nothing beter to do then watch what others do, kizz butt to who YOU think deserves it, and troll around lbpc attacking who you think don"t deserve what they have got.

You are a hater... end of story.

Grow up. And put your psn on here so we can try your levels.


I stand by what i said. be a man and give up your psn with 1000 hearts.


You are a noob! How can you be such a hiprocrite? choosing who is right and wrong, yet you are such a chicken to say who u are... what a lame thread.		2009-12-17 05:14:00

Author:
fijski8
Posts: 159

If you have nothing to add to the thread then do not reply, if insults are the only thing you can offer please do not post. You say I am immature yet you are the one calling me a "noob" and trying to pressure me into revealing my ID, which I will not do. And how am I a hypocrite? because I choose to voice my own opinions? wow...

You know what you did/are doing in the community is not beneficial so you decide to change the discussion in this thread.		2009-12-17 05:22:00

Author:
TheFirstAvenger
Posts: 787

Hey everyone, I know that debates like this can get heated, but let's refrain from name calling and try to debate in a respectful manner. Thanks!2009-12-17 05:31:00

Author:
mrsupercomputer
Posts: 1335

The only people who care or notice levels being on cool pages more than once are the long time creators, which are the minority of LBP. Even if everyone noticed, they should just simply 'not' play the level if they feel so enraged.

Meanwhile, about 99.999 percent of plays are from junior down the block who's been playing LBP every couple days for the past two weeks, and he doesn't give a rat's a** about the status of the level or how many hearts it gets, unlike most creators.

The only goal most creators seem to have is to impress a bunch of avatars on how many hearts he has. 2nd life, much?		2009-12-17 07:12:00

Author:
Voodeedoo
Posts: 724

I know I saw a lock around here somewhere. Now if only someone had a matching key...2009-12-17 16:23:00

Author:
xkappax
Posts: 2569

The key needs thrown away.2009-12-17 16:24:00

Author:
Matt 82
Posts: 1096

I found the key!!

Locked. I'm disappointed in you guys...

2009-12-17 16:24:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338


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