Archive: 25 posts

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Hiya, I've got 2 questions about republishing, I've been republishing once a day since I released my level (3 days ago), but I've noticed kawndawwg and others doing it like 5 times an hour. If I want the level to get noticed, should I be republishing a lot more than I am? Secondly, I've got some really useful feedback on my level so far (but always after more! See link in sig!!) - and I was going to re-edit the level and do a major overhaul of various parts. ...but I was wondering, if, after 7 days, the level kinda disappears from cool levels anyway, will it actually get any plays? And will I just have spent time re-editing for no reason? Or perhaps I should do a major rehaul of the level and republish under a new name? Or perhaps I should take on board the feedback and start on a brand new level? Any thoughts? I don't want to waste my time editing something that isn't going to get played after 3 more days... but I would like to edit and improve it.

2009-12-10 13:41:00 Author: TheAdipose Posts: 533

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If you are getting great feedback, then by all means try to improve your level. I guess if it totally changes, you might think about starting over, but I usually just update as I go. The feeling I have is if you can improve your level, you are learning how to make a better level as well as possibly getting a shot for a spotlight if the level is really awesome, but just has a few issues here and there. I don't really think of it as no one playing it after 7 days as you just never know. I like to fix issues so the level is better so I have no issues making changes during the 7 days or even after that ends if I feel it will improve the level. However, most of the time for me it is minor tweaks during the 7 day period as I go through a pretty extensive beta period before I decide to publish. As far as republishing, that is entirely up to you. RangerZero has a thread that explains how to do it effectively, but I was thinking you need to make a change of some sort before republishing would do any good.

2009-12-10 14:13:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Korn has been republishing like crazy lately because he knew he wouldnt have time later on during his seven days. Republishing 5x an hour is certainly helpful, but its not always necessary. If you want to take advantage of the republishing trick you should probably publish it as much as possible Now, as to the level, it depends on what you want. If you're really going to go out there and go for a run on cool pages, you might want to consider publishing a newer version on a new slot after this has had its run. It sounds like your edits span a little further than just the occational tweak, so there might actually be a fairly big change in rating, etc.

2009-12-10 17:47:00 Author: Burnvictim42 Posts: 3322

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As far as the republishing thing - do it every time you boot up LBP, at least. I've been in the same position as you for a while and have found that whenever I republish my level, it gains anywhere between 1 and 10 plays, but then will never get another hit until I republish it. So to get plays you have to keep doing it. Quite whether you need to do it as often as every 5 hours, though, is dependant on how quickly you want the plays. Personally, I'm quite happy to republish every week or so and to watch the plays slowly climb. But try to keep in mind the time and day you're republishing. Always check the number of players online when you play, and you'll soon get an idea of good times to republish. Blimey - I used the word "republish" a lot.

2009-12-11 15:35:00 Author: Frogmeister Posts: 236

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I hate people who republish their level constantly especially if the are on my friendslist. All you get is more plays, which in itself is nice, but not really worth it. If you want feedback make a thread here and on other fansites As for editing old level, by all means do it until you are happy with the level. If you published a level month ago and think that you can make it prettier and more fun now, than do it.

2009-12-11 15:45:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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With regards to changing levels - totally. I go in and tweak things every now and again. It's like my baby: I'm not just gonna cast it aside because I'm only getting a couple of plays a day now. If you do a major overhaul and aren't really happy with the reception then maybe republish anew after the 7 days is up. Just remember than anyone who has hearted your level will lose their link to it.

2009-12-11 16:17:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I hate people who republish their level constantly especially if the are on my friendslist. All you get is more plays, which in itself is nice, but not really worth it. If you want feedback make a thread here and on other fansites But some people WANT plays and hearts. Trophies being one reason. Surely the point of publishing is to get plays on your level? We'd all love to be spotlighted wouldn't we? How's this going to happen unless we whore out our levels?

2009-12-11 20:09:00 Author: Frogmeister Posts: 236

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Well, it would happen automatically if your levels are good and people wouldn't constantly republish their levels.

2009-12-11 20:23:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Well, it would happen automatically if your levels are good and people wouldn't constantly republish their levels. The tone of this reply suggests to me that you are being somewhat arrogant. One of my levels has a 4 star rating and still only ever gets max of around 10 plays each time it's republished, despite also having whored it out on this very site as much as possible. Please, in future, check things out before dissing them.

2009-12-12 00:25:00 Author: Frogmeister Posts: 236

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Well I personally won't play a level that has been republished multiple times (yes, I do check), but I'm almost certainly not typical. Make no mistake, the republishing trick is an abuse of the system, and one of the primary reasons the community is so broken. Perhaps the primary reason. Undeniably, it is the only way to get one's level noticed. Because if you aren't doing it, your level will quickly be bumped off the pages by others who are. And every time you do it you'll be bumping off levels made by modest authors who either don't know about the trick or who aren't willing to abuse it themselves. The LBP community is a community which not only rewards one for being a whore, it almost demands it.

2009-12-12 02:11:00 Author: zabel99 Posts: 179

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Make no mistake, the republishing trick is an abuse of the system, and one of the primary reasons the community is so broken. Perhaps the primary reason. Undeniably, it is the only way to get one's level noticed. Because if you aren't doing it, your level will quickly be bumped off the pages by others who are. And every time you do it you'll be bumping off levels made by modest authors who either don't know about the trick or who aren't willing to abuse it themselves. The LBP community is a community which not only rewards one for being a whore, it almost demands it. I totally agree. It's a trick that, unfortunately, has to be exploited if you want to get trophies.

2009-12-12 03:39:00 Author: Frogmeister Posts: 236

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The tone of this reply suggests to me that you are being somewhat arrogant. One of my levels has a 4 star rating and still only ever gets max of around 10 plays each time it's republished, despite also having whored it out on this very site as much as possible. Please, in future, check things out before dissing them. By "your" I didn't mean you specifically but anyone.

2009-12-12 12:43:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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i agree with republishing. im sorry but.. i hate it wen i see a good leel with a minor of 10 plays... it anoys me like hell. dnt ask why... i just seem to hate it if someone spet over 3 months on a level and ends up getting.... 1000 plays? i just find it unfair. so i make the most out of my effort and time that ive spent on my level and sell it out to the community. please dont hurt me....

2009-12-12 12:53:00 Author: Tawarf Posts: 457

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The problem with the republishing trick is that the only solution available to us is to exacerbate the problem. People are publishing like made and spamming their way onto cool pages. By doing so they push others off. This is a problem. The only solution to the problem is to become one of the spammers. Or ignore it, which is only an option if you don't want your level on cool pages (I believe I'm in the minority on that one). It's a terrible situation. It just breeds selfish spammy attitudes amongst the community and with the current system the cycle will simply continue.

2009-12-12 13:06:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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You are quite right. I hate republishing to be honest. the only people that i think that can get onto cool without republishing are those that are always getting searched. poms for example, or people that are on highest rated or most hearted. Its a cruel system.

2009-12-12 13:23:00 Author: Tawarf Posts: 457

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Thanks for the comments guys, I did spent 2 days re-editing the level and have re-published over the old one - see sig. From your comments it seems the only way to get noticed is to republish - even if that is the cause of the problem in the first place. I guess I'll whore a bit until Sunday which is when the 7 days is up. On this forum its clear that some people are well known and everyone plays their levels cos they know 'the name' - but unfortunately for a newbie like myself we need to find a way to get noticed first. I've followed the advice on forums (pictures, good descriptions, F4F etc) but I get more level plays from republishing than I do by advertising here. That said, the feedback from here is WAY more useful and its what I've based my re-edits on. Adi and Clarie

2009-12-12 15:12:00 Author: TheAdipose Posts: 533

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You will always get more plays by republishing. We do too. But the best feedback you will receive here. Did you make an F4F thread? I'll go read and play your level. .

2009-12-13 19:30:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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Yeah, I suspected even authors with name recognition were abusing the republishing trick too -_-. It's part of how they got name recognition in the first place. I suppose as long as you don't actually see the non-abusers you are stepping on in order to get yourself noticed it doesn't feel bad to be doing it. And you won't...nor will hardly anyone.

2009-12-14 07:27:00 Author: zabel99 Posts: 179

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Yeah, I suspected even authors with name recognition were abusing the republishing trick too -_-. It's part of how they got name recognition in the first place. I suppose as long as you don't actually see the non-abusers you are stepping on in order to get yourself noticed it doesn't feel bad to be doing it. And you won't...nor will hardly anyone. It can reach abuse of course (like republishing quite constantly) but it's not "a trick". The game is designed like that. They want people to continue to improve their level over feedback, being able to fix things, change things and still having a hit at the cool pages --- the only place where the game kinda promote people's work. While I think the community side of LittleBigPlanet is EXTREMELY badly designed, republishing isn't a "trick" or something bad. Actually, since people DO abuse the trick for their ramp levels, it's also the only way to balance things back and favorite good creators and people serious about their creations. There's also many people that don't republish either, I mean, climbing the cool level pages don't HAVE to be part of everyone's fun. .

2009-12-14 08:42:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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RangerZero: The fact remains that there is, in practicality, limited space on the New pages. For a level to come back on it, another level has to get bumped off. And there is not that I know of any limitation on how often you can bump, which renders the system wide WIDE open to abuse. People often republish without adding any improvements to their level, sometimes multiple times a day, sometimes multiple times an hour! In fact, I would be willing to bet that by far most republishes are republishing lacking any real improvements to the level at all. This, besides being a waste of time and bandwidth for everyone, leads to a situation which rewards the most shameless selfish users. It's kind of similar to H4H in that way. Consider online discussion forums. Most I've been on have limitations against how often you can *bump* a topic. (I don't think LBP Central does, but it does have a rule against double posting) And for good reason. A forum where everyone was constantly bumping their thread to the front of the page multiple times a day, or multiple times an hour, would be insanity. Yet such is the Little Big Planet community. In regards to your last point, while climbing the Cool pages isn't everyone's goal, all this abuse has led to a situation where republishing is absolutely vital to getting your level played more than a mere handful of times--and that is most authors' goals. Few composers write music for their personal enjoyment alone. Few authors of novels write novels for their personal enjoyment alone. Few game makers create games for their personal enjoyment alone. Ultimately you invest all that time and energy into creating something because you would like other people to enjoy it. When I look at the New pages, the popular levels (levels with high-play count) have invariably been republished over and over. It may be that the game is designed exactly this way as you say. I have to ask though... Why, when Media Molecule did a piece on their blog about how to get your level played, did they make no mention of the republishing "trick"? (or whatever we call it) Why did they neglect to mention this important part of the community's design when all the other things that help a level get noticed--a coherent description, screenshots, a badge, etc--are negligible, from my experience and the experience of many others, compared to republishing it?

2009-12-15 02:26:00 Author: zabel99 Posts: 179

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Consider online discussion forums. Most I've been on have limitations against how often you can *bump* a topic. (I don't think LBP Central does, but it does have a rule against double posting) And for good reason. A forum where everyone was constantly bumping their thread to the front of the page multiple times a day, or multiple times an hour, would be insanity. Yet such is the Little Big Planet community. Everything COULD be abuse if it was different. I don't see forums as the same anyways because in a place like here, your thread IS accessible, your profile and your stuff is more apparent and it's easy to navigate, generate discussion therefore bumping threads. It's entirely different in the game. LBP would have been effective if designed more like Youtube. Right now you have 10 mins before dropping down the cool level pages + there's WAY MORE publication of levels than thread created/answered in a room of this very forum. In regards to your last point, while climbing the Cool pages isn't everyone's goal, all this abuse has led to a situation where republishing is absolutely vital to getting your level played more than a mere handful of times--and that is most authors' goals. So what do you not understand in our community to encourage "reasonable republishing" during the first seven days of publication? We didn't start by doing this, this was a consequence to the game's bad design that became a necessity along the way. It may be that the game is designed exactly this way as you say. I have to ask though... Why, when Media Molecule did a piece on their blog about how to get your level played, did they make no mention of the republishing "trick"? (or whatever we call it) Why did they neglect to mention this important part of the community's design when all the other things that help a level get noticed--a coherent description, screenshots, a badge, etc--are negligible, from my experience and the experience of many others, compared to republishing it? The game itself speaks more than a precise Media Molecule PR post. The game is designed so you can republish your level without problems. Be for a change, improvement and now to get some recognition. If they didn't want that then why would they design the game this way? Also, do you seriously think Media Molecule should have posted all the tricks in their PR? They need to have a gentle approach and press on certain things and feature in order to encourage a certain behavior. Misposting from Media Molecule could be more damageable to the community than anything else really. .

2009-12-16 17:52:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I totally agree. It's a trick that, unfortunately, has to be exploited if you want to get trophies. You'll eventually get all the trophies if you keep creating...for me it look about 6 levels and 6 months. The lesson here is don't be so impatient! It's perfectly reasonable to want a level you spent time on and are proud of to get noticed, doing un-fun things just to get some virtual trophy I'll never understand. Removing the stupid "publish" trophies is probably the best thing Mm could to do improve having real new levels get noticed. Do we really need everyone publishing some junk level using the paintinator just to get a trophy? How about create a level on your own moon that uses it instead; now the trophy junkies are happy and the community doesn't suffer. My 2 cents.

2009-12-16 19:02:00 Author: fullofwin Posts: 1214

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I personally have no problem with deleting a level and publishing it again IF you completely remade the level or at least make some significant improvements, it's the people who try and manipulate this that I have a problem with.

2009-12-16 19:44:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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In my opinion republishing is something that needs to be fixed. It's always the same in every online game, if there is some way to abuse some feature, then people will do it for their own sake as long as it exists. It's a sad thing, which wont never change. There?s no even one online game where I haven?t seen any abusing of some feature/bug, which wasn?t supposed to be in that game. There are people who don't do it, but sadly the amout of people who do it is a much bigger. It's just like a cancer amongst gaming, cancer that needs to be cured, but it won?t never happen because most of the gamers lack common sense. It would be nice to see actually some new levels when you try to find them, but you most likely see only rebublished levels -.-

2009-12-17 08:41:00 Author: Unknown User

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Few composers write music for their personal enjoyment alone. Few authors of novels write novels for their personal enjoyment alone. Few game makers create games for their personal enjoyment alone. Ultimately you invest all that time and energy into creating something because you would like other people to enjoy it. Here endeth the lesson. Ahmen.

2009-12-17 23:26:00 Author: Frogmeister Posts: 236

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