Archive: 18 posts

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Alright, I've just done some experimenting with the capture tool to figure out its exact size/complexity limitations and hopefully find some way to bypass those limitations. Experiment : I have simply placed a number of static objects (25) and tried to capture them all at once. I have deleted objects one by one until the capture tool accepted to capture the lot. I have been able to capture : 19 Squares (brush tool) 19 Triangles (corner-edited from brush) 17 Circles (brush tool) 15 Six-point stars Observations : It seems that there is a set limit of 19 objects regardless of simplicity. There is also a limit on complexity, which I can only assume is based on the number of corners in total (the exact formula will be determined with further study). Oddities : Both the circles and the six-point stars contain 12 corners. However, I was able to capture two more circles than the number of six-point stars. This is interesting because it may lead to a way to bypass the complexity limitations to an extent. The exact cause of this oddity has to be determined with further study. Bypass attempts : I have used the shareable-community-object trick to place two sets of 19 squares, but the capture tool refused to capture them together. I will attempt to use smaller batches to see if this leads to a way to bypass the 19 object limit. I have also attempted to make the six-point stars smaller, but this didn't allow me to capture any more than 15. I will be exploring the effect of gluing objects together and using rods and strings. How you can help : As always, if you can run some experiments yourself and post the data here, it'll be much easier to identify the limitations of the capture tool precisely. If you happen to come across some possible leads for a way to bypass those limitations, I'll also explore those fully.

2009-12-01 13:55:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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What about the capture tool changing objects from static to dynamic, and the fact that you can't tweak the captured object, so you can't change it's property. I think I saw that listed as one of the bugs, but is a big pain when trying to duplicate an object since we can't copy it. Do you or anyone else have a trick for that issue?

2009-12-01 14:36:00 Author: duvalla09 Posts: 7

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Patience, young grasshopper. I can only solve one bug at a time.

2009-12-01 14:54:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Well, I'm getting closer with my vehicle. I used the corner editing tool on all logic material, and make sure ALL static logic material was glued to my main object and dynamic uses pistons.... I was able to capture it perfectly. Everything totally works in the created object. So, I don't have a huge amount of additional objective information, but it does appear that if material is glued together you can build a more complex object. The number of shapes I have is the same, but more is glued together. Also, with editing my object and testing over a number of hours, no further problem with material shifting OR piston twisting after using the corner editor.

2009-12-01 15:28:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Glad to hear you finally managed to capture it CCubbage. Just out of curiosity, do you think you could count the number of parts in your object?

2009-12-01 15:41:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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So far..... 14 pieces of material (2 are static, 12 dynamic), 6 magnetic keys, 3 magnetic switches, 6 pistons, 2 sensor switches, a grab switch, and 3 rockets. I'm not out of the woods yet, though. I still need a brain, an emitter with a single piece of material, and 2 more mag switches.... so I will be able to tell today whether I can successfully capture the whole thing. EDIT: Ok, I added 1 more mag switch and the object fails to capture... so I definately can't build the level I was attempting to build - but at least we have more information on the limitations of capturing an object. But with all the changes, I can now move the object without breaking it - so I may be able to instead build a survival challenge out of it rather than a full level.... so all's good!

2009-12-01 15:52:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I've attempted gluing all of the objects together and gotten the same results. I could only capture 19 squares and 15 six-point stars. Gluing does not seem to affect the capture limitations, at first glance.

2009-12-02 13:42:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Yeah, I realized that last night in further playing with it. I had inadvertantly lowered the material count by removing a few things that used to be disconnected. The capture object does seem really limiting to me, though. If they leave these limitations on a captured object, there are definately some really cool game types that we won't see happen.

2009-12-02 14:20:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Yeah, knowing about this limitation now I can see that my mech would never have been able to be captured. It seems that when making any complex vehicle one has to try to make it in as few parts as possible (I.E. try to combine different homologous parts together as one) to make it under the 19 object quota (why 19? Why not 20? Such a weird, arbitrary number). I'm still not sure how the complexity limitation works, as I've given up on experimenting for a little while. I'll get back to it once I'm done sprucing up my level though.

2009-12-02 15:05:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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I haven't tried create mode yet, but maybe it's possible to break up a complex object in two parts, physically separate but held together by gravity or hooked together or something, and then capturing and emitting both parts separately.

2009-12-06 12:03:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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I haven't tried create mode yet, but maybe it's possible to break up a complex object in two parts, physically separate but held together by gravity or hooked together or something, and then capturing and emitting both parts separately. Yes you could concievably do this, however keep in mind that if the object (such as mine) requires quite a bit of logic, it would break the logic in half, so it wouldn't work. Also, in LBP PSP once you capture an object and place it, you can no longer tweak or change ANYTHING - including the values on switches. So in my case, and most likely Gilgamesh, it simply wouldn't work.

2009-12-06 14:04:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I haven't tried create mode yet, but maybe it's possible to break up a complex object in two parts, physically separate but held together by gravity or hooked together or something, and then capturing and emitting both parts separately. Actually, in my experience the LBP PSP physics engine is not as reliable to hold objects together as on the PS3. Because of the way the collision detection works, objects can easily phase through eachother if enough force is applied. Also, because of the lack of a grid mode, it would be pretty hard to precisely emit two parts of an object together at the correct location.

2009-12-06 15:19:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Meh, sounds like a challenge.

2009-12-06 21:16:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Now that the new update has been released, here are some experiments I have done on the new limitations : I can now capture : 90 Squares (brush tool) 90 Triangles (corner-edited from brush) 63 Circles (brush tool) 22 Six-point stars Additionally, by corner-editing from the square brush I have been able to gather the following (seemingly arbitrary) limitations based on the number of corners : 3 to 5 corners : 90 objects 6 corners : 88 objects 7 to 8 corners : 30 objects 9 to 11 corners : 22 objects 12 to 13 corners : 18 objects 14 corners : 15 objects 15 to 19 corners : 9 objects 20 to 21 corners : 7 objects Conclusions There is an absolute 90 object limit regardless of complexity. There is a corner-based formula to determine the limit for complex objects (the exact formula is unknown). You can sometimes capture more objects if they were not corner-edited. Oddities Objects that are captured straight from the brush (without being corner-edited) seem to bypass the complexity formula somehow. The most blatant example is the circle brush that allows up to 63 to be captured even though the circles each have 12 corners. I have attempted to corner-edit the circles into six-point stars, but this resulted in only being able to capture 22 objects even though I only moved the existing corners around. I believe this may also have skewed some of my corner-edited results, because I could only capture 18 12-corner objects that were corner edited from a different brush.

2010-02-10 02:51:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Very interesting indeed. Regardless, it sounds like we will now be able to capture some fairly complex objects - great news!

2010-02-10 03:13:00 Author: Taffey Posts: 3187

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hey...try capturing the lbpc logo!

2010-02-10 03:16:00 Author: theswweet Posts: 2468

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hey...try capturing the lbpc logo! It was the first thing I tried to do, unfortunately it still doesn't work. Judging by the numbers I've seen, I think it's pretty clear that the letters exceed the complexity limitation by having too many corners.

2010-02-10 03:37:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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I think it's pretty clear that the letters exceed the complexity limitation by having too many corners.Ditto for the smaller "LBPCentral" logo I made - still too complex to capture.

2010-02-10 03:56:00 Author: Taffey Posts: 3187

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