Archive: 49 posts

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LBP features many objects and tools which do, under certain circumstances, not behave the way the creator would like them to. However, most of those finds aren't worth their own full-fledged thread, so I thought this may be useful. The basic idea of this thread is to collect any cases of unreasonable object misbehaviour. This can be related to glitches, bugs, strange aspects of the physics engine (like wobbling stiff pistons) and the like. I'm gonna start with one thing. If a wobble bolt is tweaked to turn 360 degrees and is attached to a directional switch, it behaves like one would suppose: It either stands still, or (if the switch is reverted) makes one full rotation and stands still afterwards. If you do, however, leave the level and re-enter it again, the wobble bolt will behave like a standard motor bolt. The affected object will keep rotating in one direction, not stopping at any point. if you decrease the rotation to 359 degree, however, it will turn back to a normal wobble bolt.

2009-11-19 17:28:00 Author: Treas Posts: 223

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Emit a piston-driven object and it will only begin to move when it feels like it. Perhaps it will begin to move as soon as it appears, or perhaps it'll wait a few seconds. The delay between the materialisation of the object and the activation of it's piston is inconsistent and unpredicatable. So far I've found no solution to guarantee that the piston-driven object will activate immediately upon being emitted.

2009-11-19 18:13:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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if you make a big enough sticker it will begin to slide your screen right, making it really difficult to place

2009-11-19 18:27:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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if you make a big enough sticker it will begin to slide your screen right, making it really difficult to place Yeah. It is very irritating! Following the case, one solution is to add the sticker on a smaller version of the final object, then you increase the size of the whole object... My main concern about object behaviour is about multi-piston mechanism. Since gravity always work on materials, object connected to a block of matter by a piston, the block being himself connected to another block by a piston, shows a very strange and random behaviour...

2009-11-19 18:32:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355

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if you make a big enough sticker it will begin to slide your screen right, making it really difficult to place Turn the grid on, and it won't slide anymore.

2009-11-20 01:32:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Turn the grid on, and it won't slide anymore. but then i can't place with precision

2009-11-20 15:57:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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Glue a thin front later of Dark matter to an object with a protected brain and it destroys itself. Without destroying the object. Fairly weird...Happened to me yesterday.

2009-11-20 16:03:00 Author: KoRnDawwg Posts: 1424

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if you coat a unprotected brain in dark matter you can remove the brain from the casing

2009-11-20 23:32:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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The rewinding emmiter glitch? If, in regular create mode, emmiters are shooting and you reind (automatically turning on pause mode), the emmiters will fire again. It drives me crazy when pause mode doesn't actually guarentee things will be paused!!!

2009-11-23 21:59:00 Author: Incinerator22 Posts: 3251

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the glitch where you grow the sticker really big was fixed but not completley just makes it not happen as easily... And i also found a strange glitch (may have been fixed happend a while ago) where i opened my popit cursor and when i moved down very slowly it moved up instead of down it annoyed the hell out of me.

2009-11-23 22:27:00 Author: Doopz Posts: 5592

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the glitch where you grow the sticker really big was fixed but not completley just makes it not happen as easily... If you turn on the grid, this will not happen.

2009-11-24 00:43:00 Author: warlord_evil Posts: 4193

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Emit a piston-driven object and it will only begin to move when it feels like it. Perhaps it will begin to move as soon as it appears, or perhaps it'll wait a few seconds. The delay between the materialisation of the object and the activation of it's piston is inconsistent and unpredicatable. So far I've found no solution to guarantee that the piston-driven object will activate immediately upon being emitted. This has to do with the "global synchronization" algorithm. All connectors in the whole level will try to synchronize depending on their sync delay. The problem here is that there doesn't seem to be any kind of fix anchor point in this whole time lapse. I haven't yet figured out which value the editor uses to sync the connectors, but it seems to be quite a random one. Now, emitted connectors appear out of nowhere. As soon as they appear, the engine will wait until the synchronisation loop of the whole level has gotten to a point where the newly emitted connector could join in. That's why the same emitted connector can have different idle times each time you restart the level. The only fix for this is connecting the piston/winch/whatever to a switch system with directional output. You can imitate a simple ON behaviour by toggling the direction each time the piston either fully extends or retracts; you can't, however, reproduce the linear acceleration and deceleration of the movement speed.

2009-11-24 13:16:00 Author: Treas Posts: 223

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When making a cutout, sometimes the stickers slide off the material and ruin it for no reason

2009-11-24 15:06:00 Author: springs86 Posts: 785

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Center-less wheels. If you attach a wheel to some sort of base material via any kind of Bolt connector (motor and wobble are the coolest), you can delete [cut out] the material where the base and the wheel are connected by the bolt. In this way, you can make wheels that have no center (or anything in the center behind it). Cool Stuff.

2009-11-24 15:20:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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This has to do with the "global synchronization" algorithm. All connectors in the whole level will try to synchronize depending on their sync delay. The problem here is that there doesn't seem to be any kind of fix anchor point in this whole time lapse. I haven't yet figured out which value the editor uses to sync the connectors, but it seems to be quite a random one. Now, emitted connectors appear out of nowhere. As soon as they appear, the engine will wait until the synchronisation loop of the whole level has gotten to a point where the newly emitted connector could join in. That's why the same emitted connector can have different idle times each time you restart the level. I expect everything is synchronised against the unpaused level lifetime famous from the 160-hour bug. Which means if you can time the emit just right, the piston should start moving immediately. Center-less wheels. If you attach a wheel to some sort of base material via any kind of Bolt connector (motor and wobble are the coolest), you can delete [cut out] the material where the base and the wheel are connected by the bolt. In this way, you can make wheels that have no center (or anything in the center behind it). Brilliant! Only yesterday I was thinking up a way to do this, and now you've given me an easy solution! Thanks!

2009-11-24 16:17:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Brilliant! Only yesterday I was thinking up a way to do this, and now you've given me an easy solution! Thanks! You're welcome. Just to clarify, since I was in a rush before - the motor/wobble bolt will just float in the air where it would connect to the material had you not deleted it. Making it invisible completes the illusion. One neat thing you can do is to support a thick, center-less wheel with a piece of thin dark matter, and delete the DM enough so that it is completely covered by the outer rim of the wheel. You then have a completely free-floating wheel. Copying this, you can even place multiple wheels, one within the other, that are not connect to each other in any way. It's pretty awesome.

2009-11-24 16:36:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Good thread! I added it to the Helpful Links thread

2009-11-24 23:28:00 Author: Sunrise_Moon Posts: 469

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I expect everything is synchronised against the unpaused level lifetime famous from the 160-hour bug. Which means if you can time the emit just right, the piston should start moving immediately. This would be cool, but unfortunately, it isn't the case. I know this because all of my level creations have got an "unpaused level lifetime" of 0. 0 seconds, 0 minutes, 0 hours. I do work only in pause mode, and I rewind after each unpausing. Still, emitted connectors behave differently each time they're being emitted, even if it is at the same moment since the last playtest.

2009-11-25 14:31:00 Author: Treas Posts: 223

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How about this one: I placed an object on a spinning cp and it was attached in create mode, but when I switched to play mode to test it out, it disappeared. Anyone else run into this bug? And if you have, how would you remedy this?

2009-11-25 18:44:00 Author: SHENOA77 Posts: 184

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Center-less wheels. If you attach a wheel to some sort of base material via any kind of Bolt connector (motor and wobble are the coolest), you can delete [cut out] the material where the base and the wheel are connected by the bolt. In this way, you can make wheels that have no center (or anything in the center behind it). Cool Stuff. If only I knew this while making Ard's Cog Monkey

2009-11-29 22:41:00 Author: Testudini Posts: 3262

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I'm gonna start with one thing. If a wobble bolt is tweaked to turn 360 degrees and is attached to a directional switch, it behaves like one would suppose: It either stands still, or (if the switch is reverted) makes one full rotation and stands still afterwards. If you do, however, leave the level and re-enter it again, the wobble bolt will behave like a standard motor bolt. The affected object will keep rotating in one direction, not stopping at any point. if you decrease the rotation to 359 degree, however, it will turn back to a normal wobble bolt. Actually, when I set a wobble bolt to 360 degrees, attach a directional signal and unpause, it just spins forever. Strange. I quite like this for timing rotation over the speed setting of normal motor bolts. Emit a piston-driven object and it will only begin to move when it feels like it. Perhaps it will begin to move as soon as it appears, or perhaps it'll wait a few seconds.... So far I've found no solution to guarantee that the piston-driven object will activate immediately upon being emitted. This has to do with the "global synchronization" algorithm.... Now, emitted connectors appear out of nowhere. As soon as they appear, the engine will wait until the synchronisation loop of the whole level has gotten to a point where the newly emitted connector could join in. That's why the same emitted connector can have different idle times each time you restart the level. Indeed, this is exactly what is happening, if you emit it next to a free-running copy, it will wait for the copy to be in the same position and then match it (or nearly - it's sometimes a little off ) however, the following is not so accurate: The only fix for this is connecting the piston/winch/whatever to a switch system with directional output. You can imitate a simple ON behaviour by toggling the direction each time the piston either fully extends or retracts; you can't, however, reproduce the linear acceleration and deceleration of the movement speed. *puts on smug face* You can fix this. Connectors that are not switch-driven will always try to synchronise, but connectors that are controlled by on/off switches do quite happily break from synch when they are switched off and back on again. So I did a couple of experiments and came up with the following: Add a mag switch to your emitted object and make sure it is set to on/off inverted. Connect it to the piston while unpaused. The piston should be happily moving back and forth. Select a magnetic switch and get ready to place it next to the magnetic key - but don't place it yet Wait until the piston has got to the exact point in it's cycle that you want it to start from and place the key. The switch will now be off. Pause Delete the mag switch The switch will still be off. set the switch radius to be as small as possible and set the angle to 0. capture this object] emit it. When you emit the object, the the switch is off, but it instantly (or almost instantly, not sure) switches on. This is treated like any other switch driven connector and completely ignores the global synch. It's important to capture the object with the switch off, but make sure that it will switch on straight away as soon as it is emitted. The piston starts moving straight away. .

2009-11-29 23:23:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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*Bows to rtm's greatness* Nicely done, sir. Where were you a month back when he had this problem!?

2009-11-29 23:30:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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No one asked me a month ago I did see the thread last week and was pretty sure I could work a solution, but I was a mess and panicked about little things like finding my passport so I could go on holiday, and trying to complete assassin's creed 2 so I could go on holiday... I didn't have time to run the experiments then but I'm really glad ultimateclay bumped this to remind me.

2009-11-29 23:40:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I encountered a problem recently involving emitters emitting objects even when the switch they were connected to had not been activated or inverted. Basically, I had one tank sporting a creature brain, paint switch and several emitters to emit explosives etc once the tank was destroyed. I then decided to transfer all this onto a different tank by undoing wires, detatching emitters + paint switch (didn't bother with the brain) and relocating them in similar positions on the second tank. I wanted to check something (this was in pause the whole time) so I hit play, all of a sudden the tank blew up, even though the paint switch had not been hit or inverted......

2009-11-30 00:47:00 Author: croissantbuncake Posts: 572

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I had an object that kept exploding when ever I unpaused. I noticed that it was exploding the way things do in the background if overlapping objects move. I deleted it and it was still there. I just kept deleting it until it went away then rewound once and the trouble was fixed. it was like several instances of the same object existed in the same space. I saved the broken one cuz it's so destructive when it explodes it fires out sack boy sized triangles of concrete.

2009-11-30 00:54:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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Center-less wheels. If you attach a wheel to some sort of base material via any kind of Bolt connector (motor and wobble are the coolest), you can delete [cut out] the material where the base and the wheel are connected by the bolt. In this way, you can make wheels that have no center (or anything in the center behind it). Cool Stuff. An object with a "cut out" center still weighed as much as the original object. This has apparently been "fixed" with the new update (both the bolting and the weight issues) I was using super big pink floaty circles (converted to gas) with a cut out center and attached peach floaty to make flying objects nearly weightless. After the update I cant make them anymore. Levels that already contained them still work but can't make any new ones OR capture and insert.

2009-12-01 13:24:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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This started to happen to me today. The moment my sackboy enters a level that I am working on (edit mode). The Prox-switch right next to the entrance activates itself (even in pause) and rewinding will not solve this. Even after exiting the level without saving did not solve this. I actually had to press pause, remove the switch and put in a new dissolve material into the permaswitch. after that.. it just happened again.

2009-12-02 18:10:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136

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why not use a dissolve free perm switch?

2009-12-02 18:21:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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This started to happen to me today. The moment my sackboy enters a level that I am working on (edit mode). The Prox-switch right next to the entrance activates itself (even in pause) and rewinding will not solve this. Even after exiting the level without saving did not solve this. I actually had to press pause, remove the switch and put in a new dissolve material into the permaswitch. after that.. it just happened again. This ALWAYS happens with prox's next to the spawn point. It shouldn't trigger when in pause and it shouldn't trigger when you are flying in edit mode, but it does. It also happens with anythign else triggered by proximity. The solution is to place the prox just under the spawn point, facing downwards, with a 180 - 270 degree angle. You won't trigger when entering edit mode but will trigger almost immediately when in play mode.

2009-12-02 18:29:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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why not use a dissolve free perm switch? I just got back from a year of not touching lbp. I still need to check out the logic pack. and see if its logical This ALWAYS happens with prox's next to the spawn point. It shouldn't trigger when in pause and it shouldn't trigger when you are flying in edit mode, but it does. It also happens with anythign else triggered by proximity. The solution is to place the prox just under the spawn point, facing downwards, with a 180 - 270 degree angle. You won't trigger when entering edit mode but will trigger almost immediately when in play mode. Always? Never happened to me before, and I ALWAYS have a prx-switch near my entrance. But then again.. I have been away since 1.08 and just got back. I havent had problems with it since I started working on it. (the day before 1.21 - today around 16:00) So it just happened for the first (and 2nd/3th) time. (edit: I also use this to activate the lbp music when editing, the music will keep playing untill you browse trough the music browser or press down to start walking trough the level.)

2009-12-02 18:39:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136

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Actually, not in pause. This has always happened in play mode, for as long as I have been playing the game. In pause mode it doesn't. Even now it doesn't - I just rigged up test scenario. IDK, I can't replicate it here. Doing the prox just below spawn point will stop you from triggering it accidentally when you enter create though. Probably a good idea if you are clumsy like me

2009-12-02 18:49:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Just opened my level again, started in pause modus. it again activated my prox. if it continues I will obviously use your beforementioned tip. If you want I can show it to you online.

2009-12-02 19:02:00 Author: Luos_83 Posts: 2136

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how about this one? Pistons get really, really jittery when you attach them to speed scale. This was a pain in making and testing my first level. I would have wished that the elevator would speed up over time, but the speed scale was making the elevator vibrate like a cheap motel bed, and therefore, poor sackboy couldn't make a proper jump. This is also very evident with a deathmatch weapon I'm working on. It utilizes twin pistons set to speed scale (to control the weapon's firing rate). When the weapon charges, it's firing rate is increased by moving two pistons faster, and faster on speed scale. however, those pistons can looking like they are freezing split seconds while operating on lower speed scale speeds.

2009-12-19 14:31:00 Author: TheLawnStink Posts: 98

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Just opened my level again, started in pause modus. it again activated my prox. if it continues I will obviously use your beforementioned tip. If you want I can show it to you online. Did you accidentally trigger it right before your last save?

2009-12-20 17:50:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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how about this one? Pistons get really, really jittery when you attach them to speed scale. This was a pain in making and testing my first level. I would have wished that the elevator would speed up over time, but the speed scale was making the elevator vibrate like a cheap motel bed, and therefore, poor sackboy couldn't make a proper jump. This is also very evident with a deathmatch weapon I'm working on. It utilizes twin pistons set to speed scale (to control the weapon's firing rate). When the weapon charges, it's firing rate is increased by moving two pistons faster, and faster on speed scale. however, those pistons can looking like they are freezing split seconds while operating on lower speed scale speeds. If you put the key on the object that is being moved with speed switch it will do that. try using a seperate piston that pushes the key towards the switch when the elevator is activated.

2009-12-20 17:53:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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If you put the key on the object that is being moved with speed switch it will do that. try using a seperate piston that pushes the key towards the switch when the elevator is activated. Actually, they were separate. The piston designated for controlling speed was located near the level's logic board. The elevator's piston would increase it's speed while it paused up at the top, by temporarily turning on the speed piston. Once the elevator was in motion again, the speed piston would stop, locking the speed on the elevator until it went back down and came back up again.

2009-12-20 23:06:00 Author: TheLawnStink Posts: 98

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Actually, they were separate. The piston designated for controlling speed was located near the level's logic board. The elevator's piston would increase it's speed while it paused up at the top, by temporarily turning on the speed piston. Once the elevator was in motion again, the speed piston would stop, locking the speed on the elevator until it went back down and came back up again. At which point in the cycle did the elevator's piston get jittery? Does increasing the speed decrease the pause time? I used an inverted speed mag switch on The Twister that was operated by emited keys at varying distances on the object being "wobbled". I needed the ride sequence to stop half a cycle before the wobble bolt paused. I figured the jitter was caused by the key moving in and out of the activation field. I kind of masked it by adding another loose bolt between the spinning arm and the ride car but it was still noticeable.

2009-12-21 00:25:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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Emit a piston-driven object and it will only begin to move when it feels like it. Perhaps it will begin to move as soon as it appears, or perhaps it'll wait a few seconds. The delay between the materialisation of the object and the activation of it's piston is inconsistent and unpredicatable. So far I've found no solution to guarantee that the piston-driven object will activate immediately upon being emitted. right but you can use a switch, it works

2009-12-29 09:39:00 Author: POLLOePILLA Posts: 47

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right but you can use a switch, it works It does and it doesn't. rtm223 came up with this solution a while back. He posted step by step instructions on how to attach the connectors and manipulate the pause/unpause function to fool the synch timer. With a normal emitter it works, but not when using a demitter/remitter. Just another example of unpredictable behaviour, I guess.

2009-12-29 10:32:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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With a normal emitter it works, but not when using a demitter/remitter. Just another example of unpredictable behaviour, I guess. What the hell? That makes no sense whatsoever. Why would a moving emitter have any effect on the issue?

2009-12-29 11:22:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Rtm lets calm down... the pistons on pistons on pistons on pistons annoys me when even though they are stiff they still wobble and break, Luckily i have found a quick fix, involving winches *hugs*

2009-12-29 11:36:00 Author: Kern Posts: 5078

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What the hell? That makes no sense whatsoever. Why would a moving emitter have any effect on the issue? I've played and hearted your emitter/demitter right now. I don't understand the problem too...

2009-12-29 14:51:00 Author: POLLOePILLA Posts: 47

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The emitter/demitter problem definitely exists. I've been struggling with it for the last three days. If I emit my object then the piston moves immediately. If I demit/remit the object then the piston starts it's movement at random times. And just for the record... yes, this is after having explicitly followed rtm's instructions.

2009-12-29 17:59:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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mmm, I can not understand you, all pistons are activated by switches, switches means no delay. If you are talking about a piston EMITTED, just emit it connected with a switch

2009-12-29 19:45:00 Author: POLLOePILLA Posts: 47

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mmm, I can not understand you, all pistons are activated by switches, switches means no delay. If you are talking about a piston EMITTED, just emit it connected with a switch WTF? I'm not sure how I can make myself any clearer! 1). I make a piston driven object, with the piston hooked up to a mag switch that is permanently "on" (as per rtm's instructions). 2). I capture it 3). I set the object to be emitted from a normal emitter, and when it appears it starts moving right away. Great...no issue there. However, if I set it to be demitted/remitted using rtm's device then it behaves unpredictably, starting it's movement at random times regardless of the fact that the piston is hooked up with a permanently active mag switch. Capiche? Anyway, what do you mean "all pistons are activated by switches"? A piston activates itself automatically until you choose to hook it up to a switch. If you're simply saying that all pistons can be activated by a switch, well that's pretty obvious don't you think?

2009-12-29 21:42:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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1). I make a piston driven object, with the piston hooked up to a mag switch that is permanently "on" (as per rtm's instructions). Is the switch type set to direction or on/off?

2009-12-29 23:49:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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Oh dear lord, hopefully this will explain all: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=341537&postcount=21

2009-12-30 00:02:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Oh dear lord, hopefully this will explain all: http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=341537&postcount=21 Ah, the man himself. At least somebody knows what I'm talking about! So...any theories about why your demitter device might be causing this incongruent behaviour?

2009-12-30 07:26:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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2009-12-30 07:43:00 Author: IStwisted Posts: 428

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