Archive: 24 posts

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I've come to notice that the more a level is similair in style to the Mm Story level's, the higher rated it is. Not that this is a bad thing. I'm just curious to see if anyone...like me, would like to see community levels be alot more experimental rather than trying to emulate the the experience from the story levels. Similair to the situation in the games industry, in which the indie game scene can afford to take risks and come up with some really obscure stuff that normal game studios couldn't.

2009-11-18 14:18:00 Author: dsgeeno1 Posts: 76

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I haven't noticed that many MM styled levels, but the few that I have played are among my favorites. (Attack of the Flying Donkeys, Into the Wild, Digitized Reality)

2009-11-18 14:23:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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I'm all about experimentation and coming up with new ideas. It's one of the reasons I'm making SackMech. And also one of the reasons I plan on becoming an indie developer myself. I think if there is too much experimentation it can be problematic though. If every other level tries to innovate on gameplay, it might turn out to be a bit of a mishmash of different things and players will be overwhelmed with having to relearn how to play or what to expect at every level.

2009-11-18 14:25:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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I haven't noticed that many MM styled levels, but the few that I have played are among my favorites. (Attack of the Flying Donkeys, Into the Wild, Digitized Reality) Don't get me wrong, i enjoy them aswell (although I haven't played the two you mentioned) I sometimes though want to see more stuff like...libidius or mnniska's "a level in create mode", or "save die reload" by Carlsonjeppe

2009-11-18 14:32:00 Author: dsgeeno1 Posts: 76

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I sometimes though want to see more stuff like...libidius Give me another couple of weeks I know what you mean though, Its great to see someone stir things up with something different. Problem is though, its a lot easier to fall back into safety mode and do something you KNOW is going to turn out well. With doing experimental stuff, by its very nature, your going to do a lot of stuff that won't work out, and its only maybe 10% of your experimenting might actually be useable. Saying that though, I don't really mind the style of it as long as its fun to play.

2009-11-18 14:44:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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I'm all about experimentation and coming up with new ideas. It's one of the reasons I'm making SackMech. And also one of the reasons I plan on becoming an indie developer myself. I'll have to check your level out then when its done ...it might turn out to be a bit of a mishmash of different things... I think that would be awesome! Give me another couple of weeks Hmmm...teasing us hey! With doing experimental stuff, by its very nature, your going to do a lot of stuff that won't work out, and its only maybe 10% of your experimenting might actually be useable. So true...

2009-11-18 15:08:00 Author: dsgeeno1 Posts: 76

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I usually like levels in a similar style as well, but as long as it is fun I play it. Ironically, as I was reading the few replies here I had an idea for new-ish sort of level.

2009-11-18 15:12:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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There is innovation to be had in the Mm level mold. For example, each story level you play in sequence brings and expands on one particular idea or mechanic. No reason you can't find one little mechanic and make a level around it.

2009-11-18 15:41:00 Author: Asbestos101 Posts: 1114

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Give me another couple of weeks I know what you mean though, Its great to see someone stir things up with something different. Problem is though, its a lot easier to fall back into safety mode and do something you KNOW is going to turn out well. With doing experimental stuff, by its very nature, your going to do a lot of stuff that won't work out, and its only maybe 10% of your experimenting might actually be useable. Saying that though, I don't really mind the style of it as long as its fun to play. Ooohhh.... Little Big Fish Pond 2? Seriously, this is absolutely dead on. It's actually one of those things that drives me a bit crazy.... it's heartbreaking to put a ton of time into an original idea, then find out people just don't "get it". There have been about 5 of my levels that I've been scared to hit the publish button on. It's MUCH easier to copy some elses popular idea than to try original things. But, IMO, not nearly as much fun in the end.

2009-11-18 16:02:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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IMO, the MM levels are mostly generic "done it before" platforming action and they've never impressed me like some of the community created levels out there. I'd like to see more people creating their own style of level rather than adhering to the MM mould. The only aspect of MM's style that I'd like to see expanded on is the mechanics where you need multiple players to access certain areas. It would be cool to play a whole level where four players have to work together throughout to bypass obstacles and solve complex puzzles.

2009-11-18 16:03:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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It would be cool to play a whole level where four players have to work together throughout to bypass obstacles and solve complex puzzles. There are lots of co-op levels out there. But one of the most amazing I've seen is a 4p only level called UPSTROKE. It's a Japanese level, so I'm not sure how hard it'd be to find. But it's pretty much exactly what you described. You will have to have 4 skilled players though, it's quite difficult.

2009-11-18 16:18:00 Author: TripleTremelo Posts: 490

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I'd say its a reasonable opinion. Mm have pretty much used every tool sticker and material in game though, so I can see the difficulty of creating something original.

2009-11-18 16:48:00 Author: chimpskylark Posts: 335

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There are lots of co-op levels out there. But one of the most amazing I've seen is a 4p only level called UPSTROKE. It's a Japanese level, so I'm not sure how hard it'd be to find. But it's pretty much exactly what you described. You will have to have 4 skilled players though, it's quite difficult. Sounds interesting. I'll have to check it out once the insurance company have sent me a new PS3 in exchange for the brick in my garage. In fact once I'm back on the production line I might build a co-op level myself.

2009-11-18 17:55:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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IMO, the MM levels are mostly generic "done it before" platforming action and they've never impressed me like some of the community created levels out there. I'd like to see more people creating their own style of level rather than adhering to the MM mould. The only aspect of MM's style that I'd like to see expanded on is the mechanics where you need multiple players to access certain areas. It would be cool to play a whole level where four players have to work together throughout to bypass obstacles and solve complex puzzles. Yeah but they have to be to invite new players into create mode. "Look, we made this essentially simple level and it's fun. You can do this too" It was always going to be up to the community to make the calculators and mechanical walkers. That said, I have yet to see a boss that tops the end boss from story mode. Zephyr valley is good but it's still quite simple in comparison. Edit : Most 4 player only levels don't see the light of day and get instantly get blown straight off cool pages. I do think more levels and creators try to have optional 2x/3x/4x sections though.

2009-11-18 18:36:00 Author: Asbestos101 Posts: 1114

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Yeah but they have to be to invite new players into create mode... This was one of the many questions I had wanted to ask the Molecules at the Fan Meet...But I totally forget when I was in the presence of their awesomeness I wonder just how much freedom they have when creating levels. I assume they have alot of guidelines/restrictions considering they have to cater to a large audience.

2009-11-18 19:36:00 Author: dsgeeno1 Posts: 76

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I made a crane game that ppl seemed to like a lot. Although technically, it was actually already done in story mode, in the Lowrider level I think, where you pull a car out of the sewer. My designs a lot different, but still the same basic concept. The point is though, its wasnt like a typical story level, in that its just a crane game for fun, then the level ends. I think its more of a minigame actually.

2009-11-18 22:56:00 Author: sp0ngyraver Posts: 407

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A level that has gone through a lot of trial and errors in testing must take a long time, and the author mustve put a lot of time into making it, so its probably good to experiment a lot!

2009-11-19 02:35:00 Author: grayspence Posts: 1990

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I would very much like to see a level that uses more Mm style, but improved on.

2009-11-19 02:49:00 Author: warlord_evil Posts: 4193

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I think there are enough people and levels that attempt to capture the Mm LBP feel. Geosautus' levels employ that kind of design whether that's intended or not, IMO. On a personal level, I don't think any of my levels tried to emulate that style ranging from the Azure Palace to the Steampunk Samurai. I definitely want to bring something new to the table, but it's always nice visiting levels that provide a similar story mode experience that captured our hearts in the first place. Personally, I wish I made more standard levels (let alone had the time to do so like you guys), but something in me doesn't want to go that route. Aside from the GOTY level, I haven't made any full on level simply because I've been doing my best to perfect and simplify the mecha controls ever since. Like it was mentioned earlier, there's nothing wrong with copying what works, but being able to do something different and effective feels like much more of an accomplishment (to me that is anyway). But heck, if you can do it better than Mm, that's awesome.

2009-11-19 03:45:00 Author: gevurah22 Posts: 1476

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Although I do enjoy playing Mm-style levels now and again, I would rather play a creation which contains something totally original and unique, whether it be in terms of visuals or gameplay. However, I have realised that originality gets you nowhere with the kids.

2009-11-19 21:48:00 Author: KoRnDawwg Posts: 1424

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It's not as easy as some people seem to think to emulate Mm's style well. The level series hallm3 has begun does this very well (see spotlight). These levels also don't hide the bolts, winches, pistons, etc., which really adds to the Mm feel. And they use stickers and objects in the same way. I don't care about new for the sake of new. If you think the Mm style has done everything that can be done, think again. I don't think the surface has even been scratched.

2009-11-19 23:03:00 Author: thanatos989 Posts: 248

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If you think the Mm style has done everything that can be done, think again. I don't think the surface has even been scratched. People need their minds expanding to add that extra dimension of thought. Myself included in that One area that a lot of people could be working towards is using stickers in super cunning ways like Mm does to make unique, detailed story characters. That monk guy in Zephyr Valley by mrsupercomputer is a good example of a unique story character made in the Mm style. It's not an easy thing to do :eek:

2009-11-21 11:28:00 Author: Asbestos101 Posts: 1114

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Hmmm, how odd, i will look more into this.

2009-11-25 19:07:00 Author: Unknown User

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I suppose it's a matter of gameplay or aesthetics. With relation to aesthetics, I for some reason constantly aim for the realistic approach, i.e. realistic looking vehicles, level detail etc (ok, not so evident in my current levels but I do have one in the works). Yet at the same time I feel that this detracts from the LBP experience, that is of the craft materials, bolts and cellotape nature of the Mm levels. To that end, every now and again I like to "anchor" (so to speak) my designs with a touch of that Mm charm. For example, my current level project is set in a wilderness style envrionment. Now, if I wanted to do go the realistic approach I could build snow drifts using basic sponge sticked white, which I have seen in the past to emulate snow very well. However, instead I have chosen the snowflake covered snow paper material purelyto tie it back a notch to the story level aesthetic.

2009-11-26 19:44:00 Author: croissantbuncake Posts: 572

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