Archive: 22 posts

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Many levels are usually rated low due to the player being unable to finish it, most likely because it may be difficult for the player. When they leave in frustration, they usually leave behind a 1 star rating, simply because something was too difficult. I heard the solution of the player not being able to rate a level if they don't finish it, but that brings up another problem. If someone were to make a level, and then use their friends or multiple accounts to rate it five stars, that person could then block off the end of the level (so that other players couldn't finish and rate), and the level would be permanently rated five stars. Here's my solution, if you complete the level, you can rate it anything you want. If you don't complete the level, you can still rate the level, however, the uncompleted level rating will count as a 1/4 of a completed level rating. Meaning that it would take 4 uncompleted level ratings to add up to a completed level rating. Let's say the same problem happened like before, someone used their friends or multiple accounts to rate their level high, of which they then block the end of the level. Unlike before though, if the community were to continually rate a low rating, the rating would go down, slower, but it would add up against the friends or multiple account ratings, and not stay at a 5 star rating, and if a player rates a level low because they find it too difficult, then that rating won't damage the level's overall rating so harshly. That's my idea, it may not be the best, but it's better than the current rating system, right?

2009-11-02 21:57:00 Author: warlord_evil Posts: 4193

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Interesting solution to the "don't allow ratings unless you beat the level" argument. Is 1/4 the best percentage, though? I don't pretend to know the answer, I'm just spurring the debate.

2009-11-02 22:10:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Interesting solution to the "don't allow ratings unless you beat the level" argument. Is 1/4 the best percentage, though? I don't pretend to know the answer, I'm just spurring the debate. I heard that "don't allow ratings unless you beat the level" solution from somewhere else, somewhere on this forum... I'm not exactly sure if it should be 1/4 percentage, maybe the more plays a level has, the smaller the percentage gets, because there will be more people that rate the level low due to difficulty.

2009-11-02 22:15:00 Author: warlord_evil Posts: 4193

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It makes sense, although bear in mind that you can only rate once so you would want to assign a full weighed rating to anyone who has completed the level at some time, not just if they have completed it just now.

2009-11-02 22:41:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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It's a good idea, but what do we do about the levels that people haven't put scoreboards into? Do they just go unrated?

2009-11-03 15:07:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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It's better than the current system but the CAUSE for the current system to be crappy is the fact people HAVE to rate. Rating is FORCED in their face and this results in infinitely more "bad" ratings. It also makes it trivial and banalise its importance to classify the levels in the TERRIBLE and only way the game promotes your work. In my opinion, there's too many factors, it's too subjective to tell "when" someone should rate a level. Thing is, some levels should be played entirely to be rated properly and some others don't need it. Also, I don't need to finish a crap level to know I will rate it 2 stars. And why in the world my opinion should count less? Because I didn't want to finish that total bull of a level? This doesn't make sense. The best solution I see (most effective vs less demanding for MM) is to never ask the player to rate the level and to put the rating option 2-3 menus deep. For rating a level you should have to click on the puck, use L1/R1 to reach some rating page, scroll down some list of "lastest ratings" or something and find a button that says "rate this level". This button would open a new little window where you NEED to write a little comment and as soon as some text is detected, the stars aren't grayed out anymore and you rate the level. Of course my description is just an example of how it could be done, there are multiple ways. The point is to be a VOLUNTARY rating and 2-3 menus deep because this attacks directly the problem we have: -Dude coming out of the level in frustration: he will probably not bother to take the time and go rate your unproperly. -Kids rating hazardeously: they may not even found the rating page and since they play casually, they will probably not care anyways. On the other hand, conscious users, dedicated creators and hardcore gamers WILL rate your level because it's not much of an assle to them to go rate by themselve. THEY CARE to do it because they are LBPC whinning about it right now. Lastly, this way of doing things is proven in many areas. To weed out certain users or to prevent them doing certain stuff that is more delicate, you complicate the process a little bit so it's mostly the better users and more intelligent people that will use/do the thing. When you force or put something to easy in the face of people, it's abused and misused. .

2009-11-03 15:20:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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I completely disagree, the star system is fine. (No offense)

2009-11-03 16:22:00 Author: DaSackBoy Posts: 606

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I dont know about you, but most of the times when I cant be bothered to decide a rating I just pick whatever rating it is on, or skip

2009-11-03 19:58:00 Author: Matimoo Posts: 1027

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I completely disagree, the star system is fine. (No offense) Sorry for the off-topic, but I really felt like pointing out that it's the very first time that I see someone agree with the current star system completely. Just for curiosity, have you ever published a level, Dasackboy?

2009-11-09 21:09:00 Author: Keldur Posts: 628

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Sorry for the off-topic, but I really felt like pointing out that it's the very first time that I see someone agree with the current star system completely. Just for curiosity, have you ever published a level, Dasackboy? Yeah, in fact I have a level that has over 20,000 plays over 700 hearts, and 4 stars. And two levels with a 5 stars.

2009-11-13 00:36:00 Author: DaSackBoy Posts: 606

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Yeah, in fact I have a level that has over 20,000 plays over 700 hearts, and 4 stars. And two levels with a 5 stars. Wow! That sure is impressive! I guess that I'm missing quite a great creator! Could you tell me how your levels are called? I'm really gonna go and give 'em a play or even two! And the star rating system sure is working fine to you, by the way.

2009-11-15 01:48:00 Author: Keldur Posts: 628

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...its unfair because i layed a level and it only had 100 plays...but it was amazing!...it was long...

2009-11-15 04:05:00 Author: theswweet Posts: 2468

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Another solution to the "can't rate unless you finish a level" would be to combine it with only counting unique players, instead of number of plays. This would solve several problems at the same time: + Bomb levels and other quickly made challenges that require the player to restart many times would no longer have an advantage. + The heart ratios would TRULY reflect the voting public + The initial issue would be solved because a person and his friends would each only constitute a single play/heart/rating.

2009-11-15 17:19:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I actually don't pay too much attention to the rating. The hearts to plays ratio gives you a far better indication of the quality, even better if it was unique plays only, which is how the star rating should be calculated imo. Obviously H4H levels will always be the spanner in the works, but I think most of us can spot them a mile off anyway and just leave well alone.

2009-11-15 17:58:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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The star rating system is perfect ! And we have to addapt to it. When it comes to difficutly simply let the player pick the difficulty system or have a survival challenge were the player is guaranteed to die. Then players will not become frustrated. Or say on the description that it is hard. Or even better. Unless it is a survival challenge don't make frustrating levels. `Making levels with a perfect difficulty is easier then making a hard one !

2009-11-15 19:28:00 Author: Unknown User

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Yup, genre/difficulty to steer the right player to the right level.... that would certainly be the ultimate.

2009-11-15 20:16:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Unless it is a survival challenge don't make frustrating levels. `Making levels with a perfect difficulty is easier then making a hard one ! Making a level with perfect difficulty is impossible. Given the age range, differing genre tastes and even patience of players, how is anyone supposed to build a level with perfect difficulty that caters for everyone? - Or do you honestly believe you have the same platforming skills as my Grandad?

2009-11-15 20:21:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545

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RangerZero is absolutely right of course. The problem is that rating is mandatory. Mandatory ratings are bound to produce perverse and undesirable results. Even players who want to give fair ratings can't really do so when they are forced to rate a level they didn't complete for whatever reason. And it's not just difficult levels that are disadvantaged. Any level that a portion of the community is unable to appreciate for whatever reason is susceptible to be rated low. For instance, levels where the speech bubbles tell an interesting story, or explain a critical puzzle. Not only do you have players who skip reading text because they're lazy, or because they're too young to read, but you have players for who the text might not even be in their native language. Yet the system forces them to give a rating off of an opinion that cannot possibly be informed. Few people would say that mandatory voting in political elections is a good idea. So why is mandatory rating a good idea in LBP?

2009-11-17 21:16:00 Author: zabel99 Posts: 179

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Rangerzero and zabel99 are right. You should be able to choose whether you can vote or not, either by: A: Turning off voting in the options menu B: Having to go through the level menu and select a vote option.

2009-11-17 21:36:00 Author: Deviantgeek Posts: 386

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thing is about the only being able to rate if you finish level is that i can't be bothered to properly finish a level when i see the scoreboard i just return to pod

2009-11-17 22:44:00 Author: Doopz Posts: 5592

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I think RangerZero is on to something. Rating a level should be a voluntary act. I agree entirely with his post!

2009-11-23 16:22:00 Author: Aselrahc Posts: 185

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The star rating system is perfect ! And we have to addapt to it. When it comes to difficutly simply let the player pick the difficulty system or have a survival challenge were the player is guaranteed to die. Then players will not become frustrated. Or say on the description that it is hard. Or even better. Unless it is a survival challenge don't make frustrating levels. `Making levels with a perfect difficulty is easier then making a hard one ! I get your point, and in the past I have plainly stated that a level is challenging, or even hard. The problem that arises is the hordes of people who don't read the intro to a level. They can't get past a certain point and assume it's a crummy level because of it. Now don't get me wrong, I am not angry or upset at the current system, in fact, all my levels are rated rather well; 4 and 5 stars, however, I see an opportunity for improvement in the rating system. I feel that to achieve a higher rating I have to make all my levels super easy. I'm willing to have a three star difficult level, but it really burns when someone won't try to get through it and calls it rubbish and gives one star.

2009-11-23 19:32:00 Author: Aselrahc Posts: 185

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