Archive: 24 posts

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Hey guys, new to the forums here! I've got a question that concerns a couple of my design prototypes I'm working on in Solidworks - I know the game has something like three Z-axis layers(more?), but even with that I've been running into some collision issues. My question is, are there ways to customize what collides with what? Like a collision group of some sort? If not, I'll have to find some workarounds to the way I do things. I could definitely see this not being a feature, as it could probably cause some issues. I do remember seeing the "wafer thin" thickness in the manual, maybe that could be used to connect objects in between the Z-Axis layers? If it helps, my goal here is to create connecting bodies between various types of drive and support platforms/wheels, among a few other things. Appreciate any help

2008-09-21 18:04:00 Author: PrimusPrime Posts: 14

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Yeah, there are 3 layers, but you don't have to put one object in each layer. You can make an object take up all 3 layers if you want. From there, you can attach objects to eachother by making them have a thicker thickness or by using bolts. I think the gives a pretty good layer explanation. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking, though...

2008-09-21 18:46:00 Author: Sack-Jake Posts: 1153

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It'll take me a bit to finish the model that I'm having issues with, it's somewhat complex - but I made this right quick to kinda show what I mean by collision issues. http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a24/Primevil2/cam_wheel.jpg Having the two bodies linked with those connecting arms, I could put some legs on each arm at both ends - and could put a wafer thin layer behind the wheels connecting a main platform above(not shown in pic). With something like a collision group, you could have the entire substructure of the walker not collide with any of the arm, leg and wheel components, yet collide with the ground and everything else. Probably not going to be in the game, I just wanted to rule out the possibility . And the wafer thin part I was asking about - using the above example, could I create two wheels on the mid layer, link them both a set distance apart by a wafer thin piece of geometry. The legs would have to be positioned on layer 1 and 2 on both wheels, each set on the outer diameter of the wheel - and with each layer (1&2) having the legs positioned 180 degrees from another, and their lengths couldn't be greater than the diameter of the circle(collision issue). But then, back to the question - would the wafer thin layer in the back(between 2-3) interfer with the legs on the back layer? And can the wafer thin layers even be used to link bodies?

2008-09-21 19:20:00 Author: PrimusPrime Posts: 14

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Why do you need 4 connecting arms 1 should work fine. no? Other than that your question is a little coplicated and should probably just be tried in the beta or full game when it's released (only 4 weeks)

2008-09-21 20:15:00 Author: BerkleyJ Posts: 110

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I just woke up so this is a little deep for me. I don't think you can have any part of an object not collide with another part of it. That would look more glitchy than anything. As far as I know you can stick/bolt to/attach objects to the wafer thin objects. Assuming you're not having any moving part rotate through the wafer then the wafer should not interfere with any movement. [I think I read that right ]

2008-09-21 20:52:00 Author: docpac Posts: 601

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Welcome to the forums! You seem knowledgeable in designing. There's not much info on the thin layers, so there's no way of knowing if you can use objects in the thin layers as parts of a contraption, or how mutliple layer wide objects handle if they collide with wafer thin objects. Your guess is as good as any. With regards to collision checks, my educated guess is that you can't tweak them. Would make creation too complex. At the very least, I wouldn't count on it existing when creating plans. Also, about the Z-Axis layers, we know that there are 3 layers the Sackboy can travel in, but there might be an additional 'background' layer (check the Construction Site Boss Battle video to see something that looks like a background layer in action) that you can use in level design. It's still a bit vague to me, whether there is one or not. Hopefully the beta will bring final clarity about this.

2008-09-21 21:13:00 Author: Linque Posts: 607

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Also, about the Z-Axis layers, we know that there are 3 layers the Sackboy can travel in, but there might be an additional 'background' layer (check the Construction Site Boss Battle video to see something that looks like a background layer in action) that you can use in level design. It's still a bit vague to me, whether there is one or not. I'm very sure that back part is actually a "wafer thin" layer, where you can pretty much put some cardboard or the like there for a background. (Also, there are "wafer thin" layers which exist between each of the three "big" and Sackboy-usable layers, as explained better in other places. But in short, I don't think the "wafer thin" layers are as useful as you may be thinking. And as for your design...I'm sorry but I just don't get entirely what you're trying to do there. But from what I can see, I can tell there would be much easier ways of getting it done than what you propose.

2008-09-21 21:20:00 Author: Mark D. Stroyer Posts: 632

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I'm very sure that back part is actually a "wafer thin" layer, where you can pretty much put some cardboard or the like there for a background. (Also, there are "wafer thin" layers which exist between each of the three "big" and Sackboy-usable layers, as explained better in other places. I agree, that's what it probably is. Will need to get a confirmation before my mind is at ease, though.

2008-09-21 21:24:00 Author: Linque Posts: 607

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Thanks for the help guys . I didn't figure there would be an option for collision groups, but, I wanted to rule it out. More or less, I'm probably just going to have to wait until release to see what works and what doesn't - a simplified version of part/contraption I'm looking to make as part of my level will look something like this... http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a24/Primevil2/contraption.jpg ... and this would only work assuming that two motor bolts could be linked to the same switch. And if they can, then I have to worry about the thing falling backwards! - it really depends on the material weights and how the physics calculations are done I guess. I'd like the in air leg to tilt into the step slightly(reason one side of each leg has more weight), but who knows if it'd work. Before it's all said and done, I'll prob have to add some sorts of underbelly support/guide-ways to keep the thing upright... and as it is, it wouldn't handle uneven terrain very well. Again, thanks for the help... even if my original question wasn't very well presented .

2008-09-21 22:56:00 Author: PrimusPrime Posts: 14

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my head hurts

2008-09-21 23:05:00 Author: Unknown User

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I get at least the function of it. (Or at least I think I do. I could be mistaken.) Maybe not the exact design, but you've got it in your head and can work it out, so that's fine. However, I can provide the following: To clear things up a big, you CAN "glue" together different objects that are next to each other by highlighting one and holding down X until they stick. You probably knew that already. However, Although working with the wafer-thin levels may or may not be effective for what you're trying to do, it should be rather easy to use a full-sized block in place of the thin material if all fails. Also: Multiple motors - one switch is very doable. Look at the Sackzilla trailer, in the construction part. The base of the monster has two wheels, with a button on the head. Each wheel has a motor, and both are wired to the button. Pressing the button activates both. So yeah.

2008-09-21 23:32:00 Author: Mark D. Stroyer Posts: 632

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Why can't you just make it one big object

2008-09-22 01:02:00 Author: Unknown User

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Super, what do you mean? The last picture I posted has the two wheels which rotate individually at the same RPM, the legs simply pivot at the point where they connect to that wheels - gravity keeps them positioned correctly (hopefully). Wouldn't work as a single object. This probably belongs in the idea forum now I guess, my questions have been answered for the most part .

2008-09-22 01:37:00 Author: PrimusPrime Posts: 14

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I think I see where you're going with this but I'm not quite sure. Are you planning on using an off center motor on each of the "wheels" to raise each set of legs or am I completely off target?

2008-09-22 01:41:00 Author: docpac Posts: 601

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I think I see where you're going with this but I'm not quite sure. Are you planning on using an off center motor on each of the "wheels" to raise each set of legs or am I completely off target? Actually the motor is centered on the two drive wheels, those legs are have rotational pivot points where the connect to the wheels - so as the wheel rotates forward about its center the current "rear" legs become elevated along with the body over the "front" legs which establish the base for it to rotate on - so pretty much, it's just taking big steps .

2008-09-22 02:07:00 Author: PrimusPrime Posts: 14

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won't it get stuck on it's side?

2008-09-22 02:09:00 Author: Unknown User

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won't it get stuck on it's side? Stuck on its side? How so? And I really should have made a more descriptive model, lol... it just takes time and I've been kinda busy today .

2008-09-22 02:14:00 Author: PrimusPrime Posts: 14

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well if the wheels rotate, than won't just go on it's side

2008-09-22 02:18:00 Author: Unknown User

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I like your walking robot idea better than mine, although the legs might be a little big.

2008-09-22 02:19:00 Author: Sack-Jake Posts: 1153

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well if the wheels rotate, than won't just go on it's side Now you've lost me? But believe me, I've animated it out in a program called "phun", the design works... but it's really too simple, and it's flawed. It doesn't handle inclines well, any obstacles in the way can really mess it up as well. Which is where my original question can from concerning the collisions and wafer thin layers, the first picture I posted would make for a good walker if I could turn the collisions off - but I doubt it'll be a feature. But if you wanted to make a walking city(slow walking), I think this sort of walking contraption would work nicely... as long there aren't any bumps .

2008-09-22 02:25:00 Author: PrimusPrime Posts: 14

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I like your walking robot idea better than mine, although the legs might be a little big. I made them wide at the bottom so the entire thing doesn't tip backwards when it rotates forward - when the rotation starts while both legs are on the ground, the center of mass of the whole thing is pushed way back... I made the legs wider to comp for that. There's just enough clearance for them to make it, assuming the legs aren't swinging around wildly that is.

2008-09-22 02:28:00 Author: PrimusPrime Posts: 14

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Right, I think I understand from the second diagram. Why not just have the second leg of each wheel on the back of the wheel, rather than both on the front? EDIT: Ah, I suppose that would require some pretty big reworking of the frame...

2008-09-22 05:08:00 Author: Capn P Posts: 100

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Actually the motor is centered on the two drive wheels, those legs are have rotational pivot points where the connect to the wheels - so as the wheel rotates forward about its center the current "rear" legs become elevated along with the body over the "front" legs which establish the base for it to rotate on - so pretty much, it's just taking big steps . Okay, I see where you're going. If you can use the background layer as the frame then this shouldn't be a problem as far as I can see. You could simply use one of the layers for the wheel with the motor attached, one layer for the "front" legs and a little spacer for the "back" legs and the 3rd layer for the final set of legs. The spacer should allow the front leg to clear the other when it rotates and vice versa. The leg length would still be limited to less than the diameter of the wheel though. Most of my walkers I've designed have been using an off center motor set on a elipse. The leg would be attached to the other end. Take a look at the first wheel of this animation. The wheel itself isn't important but the way the arm rotates around the center is... [but it isn't that cool and not very original] Train Gear Animation (http://home.new.rr.com/trumpetb/loco/rodsf.html)

2008-09-22 05:43:00 Author: docpac Posts: 601

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I can see how the second one is going to work. That should work without a hitch. You may need to experiment with loose VS free-hanging bolts attatching the "legs" to the wheels" obviously depending on the terrain they will be walking, but otherwise, no reason it shouldn't work. The first I didn't understand! Sorry!

2008-09-22 07:39:00 Author: flakmagnet Posts: 1084

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