Archive: 54 posts

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I've had this crazy idea of just deleting all my levels and republishing them at the same time just to see what happens... I know that it's a pretty ridiculous idea so the saner part of my brain talked me out of it... But I was thinking of other less drastic ways to do this. Now I'm sure a lot of people have experience the heights of the first 7 days to see their level pretty much not get played ever again... Now I'm probably not the best person to comment on this as I've been fairly lucky to have 3 levels on page 1 of the highest rated for a good amount of time. That obviously gets a constant stream of plays and will probably ensure a few leak over to my other levels. (This is what actually put me off the idea of doing it as I think having a few levels on page 1 of the highest rated at the same time is pretty cool, as well as other more ethical reasons). Anyway to get to my point, because a level pretty much falls out of existence with the majority of LBP players after the first 7 days, I think it could be seen as a huge waste. (A necessary waste of course, by no means am I having a dig at the system here). So, I'll use my levels as an example seeing as it is easiest...if I was to delete a level now and republish it, a lot of new players would have the chance to play a level that they most probably would have never known about. That has to be seen as a good thing right? Obviously for this to happen the creator must not really be bothered about the comments and rating on the level at the moment. Another possible ways would be to do it on an alternative account (named something very close to your real PSN so people didn't think it was someone stealing) I must stress I'm thinking of this from a player point of view and not a creator going after more plays. It could possibly be considered big headed to have the view that your level is 'that good that everyone will want to play it' but I'm sure you'll all look past that and understand my intentions I'm not saying I will actually do this, I just thought it would be an interesting discussion. So, the pro's and cons, how's and why's, general opinions...What do you guys and girls think?

2009-10-14 22:59:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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A quick answer for you here. I'd say that for someone like yourself, where players will arguably have several routes for finding your levels (highest rates, reputation, recomendations, your new levels have garanteed spots on page one of cool pages), it seems rather pointless, even selfish, to do so. But for someone who had a pretty raw deal on cool pages, republishing may well be a sensible tactic. If you got pummelled because you got 1 star spam rated then dropped into obscurity, then it's probably worth re-launching with an actual strategy. On the point of selfishness: taking a second stab at cool pages when you really, honestly, don't need it is just denying others who's levels really will drop into obscurity if they are muscled out by others. This also applies to deliberately republishing multiple levels at once to feed traffic between them - your taking up valuable cool pages real estate and it's hard enough for many talented, but new, or less known, creators to get those spots. I know you say you are saying this from a player perspective, but giving them the opportunity to see your levels simply takes away the opportunity to see other levels. Who actually benefits?

2009-10-14 23:14:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Very good point about taking up a space for another level that would (you'd expect) be on it's 'first' publish. I must stress that this was just a crazy notion and by no mean was I ever seriously consider doing it. It was just something that popped into my head and thought could be an interesting discussion. I also agree, and I touched up on it in my OP, that I'm probably not the best person to have started this thread or for it to be about...so probably better for people to give a general answer as oppose to one centred around me doing it

2009-10-14 23:19:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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You're already a big name in LBP due to your brilliant levels. I can see where you're coming from with the republishing thing, but I don't think that's the right thing to do. If you want more players to experience your levels then think of a new cross-promotion strategy, say, publishing a brand new level offering brilliant prizes each unlocked by a sticker from each of your levels.

2009-10-14 23:19:00 Author: persona3fan93 Posts: 155

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Yeah I know, but seeing as you used your levels as an example, I thought I'd use you as an example of when it would be "wrong" to go about doing this - you do just fit so perfectly

2009-10-14 23:23:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I agree with rtm 223. I don't think you personally need to do this. It would be okay to remake a level if it really had some issues, but just to republish isn't really the best thing. It's already hard for many creators to get their work noticed, especially when it really is something good.

2009-10-14 23:23:00 Author: thanatos989 Posts: 248

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Well, this is my opinion : republishing "old" levels so that new players can see them might be seen to benefit them positively, but at the same time it has a very negative effect on new creators. It is already hard for new creators to compete with H4H/Survival levels and spite ratings on the Cool Pages, I feel it would be unfair to add "zombie" established levels to the mix as well, making it even harder to compete. Another point is that if one simply continues to republish old, successful levels, then ultimately that would kill any motivation for that creator to make new levels that are better. Deleting levels with many hearts also has the negative effect of removing that level from the previous players' hearted list. I know I feel a bit of guilt when I delete a level that got spite ratings, but that had something like five hearts already. It may sound silly, but it feels like I'm saying to those five players "thanks for the support, but your hearts don't mean anything to me, I want more plays". That's my opinion anyway.

2009-10-14 23:36:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Well I wouldn't be able to do that even if I wanted to. If I have any more than 3 levels on my moon I get the 'your profile cannot be saved' message every few seconds.

2009-10-15 00:08:00 Author: mistervista Posts: 2210

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steve_big_guns did this. He unpublished and locked his mario and digitalized reality lvls, and published new ones. Now he is going for 5 star ratings instead of plays. He said ppl rate them poorly on purpose, once they get really popular, so he's being careful on how much he republishes them

2009-10-15 00:12:00 Author: UncreativeUserName Posts: 107

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steve_big_guns did this. He unpublished and locked his mario and digitalized reality lvls, and published new ones. Now he is going for 5 star ratings instead of plays. He said ppl rate them poorly on purpose, once they get really popular, so he's being careful on how much he republishes them I've seen a number of people do things like this and I can't say I agree with it really. It's pretty much cheating the system and to me feels like a level probably doesn't deserve the 5 stars if you need to use those tactics to maintain it. That is by the standards of the community as a whole of course, not my personal opinion on a particular level. There's no secret in the fact that I never republish a level in the first week, this is to keep it off the cool levels so that as you said it doesn't get rated down by inconsiderate people, however having locked versions and multiple restarts just because it didn't maintain the 5 star rating feels like a bit of a cheat to me. As I said in the OP the reason I had this idea was to get the level out to there to people who may have missed it first time round, not necessarily about ratings or glory.

2009-10-15 00:23:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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steve_big_guns [...] he's being careful on how much he republishes them Well, I'm not so sure about that. I see him republishing constantly. I'm not sure what his motivations were, so I won't jump to wild accusations, but I did think it was curious to see him publishing so frequently a while after his 7 days were up. I suppose I have my answer. ---- Hey, Jack. This same discussion popped up a little bit ago when Spooky was debating over republishing the first part of her Project Genesis series. I believe the consensus was something along these lines: At some point you have to draw the line of when it acceptable to republish a level anew. If everyone re-published their level in a new spot once their 7 days are up, we would be flooded with the same levels over and over again. Just consider all the bomb-survival and 40 jumps type levels we have already, which are basically copied over and over. We don't like a stagnant community - which is part of the reason why the Cool Levels pages were updated in the manner they were (7 day limit, etc.). The point is that if people start over every 7 days, other creators will think they need to do the same, to stay in the front. I can easily see many "heart" chasers doing it to try and amass the most creator hearts and such. I know you aren't this type of person (at least all evidence points to this conclusion), but since you are sort of a figure-head to the community, it would be best to lead by example. You'd hate for someone to think, "Well, if jackofcourse is doing it, then it must be the cool thing to do." It seems silly, but we all know how impressionable some of the younger [and older] players can be. Edit: I'm hoping something similar doesn't happen with steve_big_guns, since he has apparently re-published. My point is that the line needs to be drawn somewhere. In my opinion, this line should fall on "Not at all" rather than "In rare cases." It's best to avoid the potential for a problem. I know you were probably not going to do it anyways, but I figured you'd appreciate the input. That's where I stand, and I'd like to see if anyone agrees or disagrees. Cheers.

2009-10-15 00:41:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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A quick answer for you here. I'd say that for someone like yourself, where players will arguably have several routes for finding your levels (highest rates, reputation, recomendations, your new levels have garanteed spots on page one of cool pages), it seems rather pointless, even selfish, to do so. But for someone who had a pretty raw deal on cool pages, republishing may well be a sensible tactic. If you got pummelled because you got 1 star spam rated then dropped into obscurity, then it's probably worth re-launching with an actual strategy. On the point of selfishness: taking a second stab at cool pages when you really, honestly, don't need it is just denying others who's levels really will drop into obscurity if they are muscled out by others. This also applies to deliberately republishing multiple levels at once to feed traffic between them - your taking up valuable cool pages real estate and it's hard enough for many talented, but new, or less known, creators to get those spots. I know you say you are saying this from a player perspective, but giving them the opportunity to see your levels simply takes away the opportunity to see other levels. Who actually benefits? I'll just quote this to show that I pretty much agree with this and I need not say anything more.

2009-10-15 00:55:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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I think you're right really Comphermc. I think I'm looking at it from a slightly different view point and the reasons and intentions for doing this (in the way I explained earlier) would come across entirely differently to the general community. I think the first instinct would be to think something along the lines of 'He's after more plays/hearts/better rating' etc. When in reality my only intention when thinking about it was 'Hey, I bet there's loads of people out there that may have never heard of -insert level here- and would like it!' Again, it's hard to talk about this kind of subject and not come across as arrogant or big headed. However I think most here will understand what I'm trying to say I think it's probably fair to say that my levels are pretty 'community friendly'. Now I guess the issue with looking at it from this perspective is it's kind of playing 'LBP God', who's to say my level is worth republishing and taking over someone else's chance, or these people who haven't played it would want to anyway? I guess that's where the ethical side comes in. I also guess it's hard for people to see these kind of intentions when everyone is so used to protecting and promoting their levels as much as possible. I think I'm looking at it from a view point like it's not even my level and I would just be trying to spread something that I think people may like. I've had my feedback and recognition for all my older levels now so I guess I don't feel as protective over them, or even like they're 'mine' to a degree. I hope I've articulated this well enough for people to understand my true intentions because there sure is a lot of places that people may misunderstand and that would result in my looking like a right ****!

2009-10-15 00:56:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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Well, quite honestly the cool pages have been very lackluster lately. I wouldn't mind seeing some authors republish some of their best stuff every now and then.

2009-10-15 01:08:00 Author: Jaeyden Posts: 564

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Well, quite honestly the cool pages have been very lackluster lately. I wouldn't mind seeing some authors republish some of their best stuff every now and then. Quick, everyone on LBPC publish all your favorite single level all at once! Blow everyone's mind! Seriously, though. Don't do this. Actually, that would be kind of funny to do something like this on LBP's birthday. Hmm... moral issues anyone?

2009-10-15 01:41:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I think that some levels can be republished like this, even if they were very popular already. For example, there's lots of people who came a little late to the LBP world and don't know Azure Palace! It would be fun to see that republished, because it's older. However, I think for any level that's less then 4 months or so old, unless it got completely bombed for no good reason, you shouldn't republish it. .

2009-10-15 01:51:00 Author: hilightnotes Posts: 1230

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Hmm... moral issues anyone? Other than completely crushing the hopes and dreams of aspiring creators who aren't connected with LBPC? Nope.

2009-10-15 02:01:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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Shortly after the relaunch of Cool Levels, I attempted this very thing individually with my two levels. The Movies has seen some success before the change, but people have to know about it to track it down, and the plays have really tapered off on both levels. So I tried to republish fresh into the Cool Pages system. Both of them bombed miserably. In 7 days, The Movies had around a dozen plays, and a 3-star rating. So I deleted it and decided to stay out of the whole republishing game. I understand the notion that good creators should refrain from republishing, particularly if they've already seen some success - but at the same time, a huge chunk of the general LBP community only plays levels on Cool Levels. They're going to be missing out on a lot of the game's greatest levels because of this. We may be depriving one level of a spot on Cool Pages for a week, but we're also depriving massive chunks of the community of GENUINELY "cool levels" by refusing to do it across the board! If you've got a dozen levels you want to do this with, I'd tone it down. If all of your levels have been made before the Cool Levels change, I'd say pick one - everyone gets one! If you have even one single successful page in the system, that's made it onto Cool Levels, I'd say don't do it. Your name's in the "system", you're in there, people can find you. I also think the honest way to do this would be to delete the old version of the level. I'm not willing to do that with my levels, and I know a lot of other people like to keep their current comments/ratings/play stats. So: Republish for a new audience? I say, more power to you, as long as it's done reasonably.

2009-10-15 02:07:00 Author: Teebonesy Posts: 1937

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Hmm...where to start... Well as I stated in MrsSpookyBuz's thread, I do not like it when authors re republish their levels, I have seen it done way too many times by people who only care about author hearts. steve_big_guns did this. He unpublished and locked his mario and digitalized reality lvls, and published new ones. Now he is going for 5 star ratings instead of plays. He said ppl rate them poorly on purpose, once they get really popular, so he's being careful on how much he republishes them Yes I did notice this aswell, seems like an easy way to cheat the system. I remember yesterday when I was looking at the highest rated page 2 and I saw his Horror Costumes level on there, I was kinda surprised because that level was never a 5 Star level... I then decided to look into it alittle more and thats when I discovered he had published his Horror Costumes level on top of the old version of his 5 Star rated Mario level. I even noticed that he uploaded new pictures to make it seem as it had never happened. He has now published his Mario level 3 different times...I don't know his exact intentions but it seems as though he isn't happy with his 45,000 author hearts and just wants more....hows that for exploiting the system?

2009-10-15 04:05:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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I remember yesterday when I was looking at the highest rated page 2 and I saw his Horror Costumes level on there, I was kinda surprised because that level was never a 5 Star level... I then decided to look into it alittle more and thats when I discovered he had published his Horror Costumes level on top of the old version of his 5 Star rated Mario level. I even noticed that he uploaded new pictures to make it seem as it had never happened. Well, that's quite the accusation. Can you prove it? If it's true, then that's very disappointing...

2009-10-15 04:07:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Well I haven't played LBP since yesterday (hooked on Uncharted 2 at the moment) but YES, that is what I saw...unless he has actually deleted the level, locked it, or published another over it...it will be there. You can check for yourself if you want or even ask him. I too was stunned when I saw this, kinda sad what people will resort to to get popular in this game...

2009-10-15 04:11:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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Alright, just as I suspected. I just went on LBP and he put opened his original Horror Costumes level up again, looks like he locked his original Mario level aswell. Glad he did it! But there was really no need to have done what he did in the first place! And sorry for the double post, don't know how to edit my original one.

2009-10-15 04:32:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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I understand the notion that good creators should refrain from republishing, particularly if they've already seen some success - but at the same time, a huge chunk of the general LBP community only plays levels on Cool Levels. They're going to be missing out on a lot of the game's greatest levels because of this. But it is their own choice to only play cool levels. They do have the chance to play good levels through highest rated etc., it's up to them to take it. So I say, don't republish, I don't want to have to search and reheart. I'm not too worried about trying to get a 5 star rating though, if an unworthy level gets to the top of highest rated, it will be exposed to more plays and drop down automatically.

2009-10-15 12:11:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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I did it along time ago with most of my stuff, really because the scoreboards were mucked up with unattainable top 5's, the comments were full of republishes and spam, and I'd completely retooled almost all of them with all new looks, gameplay, and ideas in as many spots as I could... all of them predated the 7 days patch as well. I never got a big boost on plays out of it for any of them, and I would have had to rig their relaunches to make it stick. I lost all the plays and hearts (still earned them to begin with either way heh) but I did get the nice bonus of having a direct series all grouped together, fresh as a baby, without a big imbalance of plays... what also happened was I was trying to copy one of the levels (Metal Slug Solid) to my moon before moving it back, and in the midst of confusion (tons of messages, and failed deletes, and icon ghosts = a flurry of button presses), and permanently deleted it with no way to get it back. I think you'd be losing out if you deleted your stuff at all, and lost your highest rated spots... who knows if FT1 & 2 would really wow people as much as it did when it first launched... and it really would be tough to get that many new players out of it IMO - I don't think there was a huge influx of new players compared to old players with the release of the GOTY edition. Even if you throw it on another name, blatantly obvious that it's you, I have a feeling that plenty of players would fail to realize that it's yours or just plain resent that they're seeing what they perceive as "milking" your work... you'll probably just get bombarded with alot of hate and negative ratings. It'll be an uphill battle... ...but really, it wouldn't hurt to put all your stuff on another account anyway, just for the sake of having back ups, and if you ever want to try publishing them anew and unlocked, it really isn't going to have any negative ramifications.

2009-10-15 12:46:00 Author: Unknown User

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Firstly, if Steve_big_guns really has published a level over an old 5 star level then that is very disappointing indeed. I see no reason why anyone would do this. Playing around with the system so that you have the best chance of maintaining 5 stars is one thing but actually cheating it totally is just pointless and a little sad in my opinion. Ninja, I think you've got it pretty much spot on. I'm glad you can see what my intentions were for when thinking about this and I agree that everyone will probably think I'm just trying to milking them for all their worth. I still maintain that deleting all the levels and putting them up at the same time would be an interesting experiment Nevertheless there's no way I'm up for doing that! haha

2009-10-15 13:19:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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The only time I ever considered doing this was on day 3 or maybe 4 during my last level. When I published it was during the ratings bug and no stars ever showed up. Once I was around 2200 plays or so, the ratings bug was fixed and in essence every one of those 2200 plays was weighted like the player selected 3 stars regardless if they did or not. Poms had the same issue with Miracle of Life and that was 3 stars also. Poms chose to republish and I totally understand and respect his decision. I just never did... I couldn't see dumping the hearts as well as the great comments I had from folks I have lots of respect for. I just didn't have the heart to them ask them to revisit and replay the level. So whether it deserves it or not (I don't think it does), it has remained a 3 star to this day. ...along with a ton of comments asking "why is this 3 stars!!" LOL! The funny part in all this is it still made page 1 within the 7 days. Even with the handicap!! LOL! ...so that part made me happy since it took even more plays and hearts to get a 3 star level up there among all those 4 and 5 star (cough cough) bomb levels and such. So no... I would never republish a level from scratch unless I had totally redid it or made some huge changes to where I felt it was basically a new level. I just don't think it fair unless of course there was some other type of bug either by Mm or a huge bug within the level that came to light during my 7 day adventure that forced me to restart. A great example of the latter would be the pain and suffering julesyjules had due to the 160 hour bug causing issues with the last episode, Star Wars Cloud City.

2009-10-15 13:23:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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I think creators who have had some success tend to get "addicted" to the attention they receive when they have a level on the top of cool pages getting attention. This sometimes makes them forget that this is a "community" and everyone should have fun... so flooding the cool pages with levels that have already had quite a bit of attention seems a bit selfish to me. What I've found is a great "cure" for this is to go through cool pages and find really quality levels that I feel deserve attention, and help them rise the ranks instead of worrying about my own popularity. I even did this WHILE I was on cool pages. It's sometimes humbling to see the great levels others have created. I think LittleBigPlanet is about helping others have fun, not about getting attention. I heavily simplified Starship Trooipers and republished it because I had the feeling people simply weren't having fun with it... at one point I refurbished the ENTIRE Splat Invaders Saga and republished it just because it never had been on cool pages in the first place.... but I didn't do "republishing" and let it get a nominal amount of plays. WANT TO GET MORE PLAYS ON YOUR CURRENT LEVELS? Build a NEW great level - everytime you get a new level on cool pages, if it's great your other levels will get attention. I found on the release of Splat III my original levels as a whole got THOUSANDS of additional plays. AND my heart ratio went up on all of them because the players went to them with a good attitude. About 50 percent of the people who played Splat Invaders Saga hearted it!!!!

2009-10-15 13:30:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I think creators who have had some success tend to get "addicted" to the attention they receive when they have a level on the top of cool pages getting attention. I think you may have misjudged my intentions here. I can definitely say it isn't about being ''addicted'' to attention. I even attempt to keep my levels OFF the cool pages so mass attention is definitely not a primary aim of mine. I think LittleBigPlanet is about helping others have fun, not about getting attention. I agree, and this is actually what I was trying to do when coming up this. I know it's hard to see it from this point of view as it's a bit screwed to how people generally go about treating their levels. However, this most certainly wouldn't be about getting attention, the sole aim would be to give people who have never even heard of a level, a chance to play it. Now as I said the problems with this is most definitely that is is very presumptive that the player would like this level in the first place, and it is like playing LBP God deciding that your level is more worthy than others. But I can 100% say it wouldn't be about attention at all. As you said, it would be about 'helping others have fun'.

2009-10-15 13:39:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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I think you may have misjudged my intentions here. I can definitely say it isn't about being ''addicted'' to attention. I even attempt to keep my levels OFF the cool pages so mass attention is definitely not a primary aim of mine. I agree, and this is actually what I was trying to do when coming up this. I know it's hard to see it from this point of view as it's a bit screwed to how people generally go about treating their levels. However, this most certainly wouldn't be about getting attention, the sole aim would be to give people who have never even heard of a level, a chance to play it. Now as I said the problems with this is most definitely that is is very presumptive that the player would like this level in the first place, and it is like playing LBP God deciding that your level is more worthy than others. But I can 100% say it wouldn't be about attention at all. As you said, it would be about 'helping others have fun'. I was totally not targeting you specifically. In fact, it was the opposite... I've seen how you treat publishing, which which is the way everyone should do it.... get the publishing ball rolling and let the community decide what happens. I was more tarteting the "idea" of republishing a level again after being on cool pages to continue getting attention from the same level - which is a pet peave of mine. There should definately be a reason beyond getting attention, for instance completely refurbishing a level from the ground up and wanting people to experience it. The biggest point I was making was that designing a new level WILL bring your older levels to life again without republishing them.

2009-10-15 13:54:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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The biggest point I was making was that designing a new level WILL bring your older levels to life again without republishing them. This is true, whenever I publish a new chapter the others get a new lease of life. I had to re-publish once, as jww mentioned, but the level was borked so i didn't have any quandry. I don't think republishing's a great idea if you've already had your 7 day run, generally out of respect to anyone else trying to get their new level out there and played. Sure, it might be good enough to warrant it, but there are hundreds & hundreds of others that have earnt that right. Its just the wrong way to go if we want to see and encourage new levels. I also see Teebonesy's point though, when the Cools are generally looking as un-inspired as they have just recently. (thankfully this site is a real godsend for finding the goodies!) Its been a while since we had three or four really good levels to play on the first page. Wex, can you knock out another trilogy over the weekend please?

2009-10-15 14:36:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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I would so do this if i had a bunch of really great levels published

2009-10-15 14:54:00 Author: springs86 Posts: 785

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@springs: Out of curiosity, what would be your motivation / rationale for this, and what would you hope to achieve?

2009-10-15 14:57:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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@rtm theres a bunch of great levels that have been out for ages that i still haven't seen (see recomendations last page) I wouldn't want my levels to suffer the same fate. however, i just scrapped 17 levels, now i'm left with one open level, and there is absolutely no point publishing that again

2009-10-15 15:02:00 Author: springs86 Posts: 785

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But getting great older levels back out into the public eye only forces new great levels further from the public eye. Even more so in fact, because as these new levels are given a harder time getting noticed, they become even more likely to not make it into the recommendations lists. So there would be even more great levels not being played. Put simply, the solution would actually end up amplifying the problem it is supposed to solve.

2009-10-15 15:13:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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The biggest point I was making was that designing a new level WILL bring your older levels to life again without republishing them. I was gonna say the same thing. While you won't get a ton of new plays on your older levels, I feel that you will get a better quality of players playing them.

2009-10-15 15:14:00 Author: mrsupercomputer Posts: 1335

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I was gonna say the same thing. While you won't get a ton of new plays on your older levels, I feel that you will get a better quality of players. Yep I pretty much said the same thing in the OP about plays leaking over to my other levels because I have some on the highest rated page. I've also said on numerous occasions something similar about a better quality of players. As a rule people who visit the highest rated page are going to be more 'mature' than those who use the cool levels. About Rtm's question to Springs... If I was to do it it would merely be to see what happens in all honesty. No motive other than to see where the community takes them. Pretty much just out of curiosity and experimentation!

2009-10-15 15:18:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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[...]If I was to do it it would merely be to see what happens in all honesty. No motive other than to see where the community takes them. Pretty much just out of curiosity and experimentation! I've actually done this before, publishing levels to see just what would happen. However, I made brand new levels for this purpose and didn't "reuse" old levels. Granted, the levels weren't that good compared to something I would work seriously on, but the experience was insightful.

2009-10-15 15:21:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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I've actually done this before, publishing levels to see just what would happen. However, I made brand new levels for this purpose and didn't "reuse" old levels. Granted, the levels weren't that good compared to something I would work seriously on, but the experience was insightful. Yeah I'm talking more about taking ALL my levels down and putting them back up at the same time haha

2009-10-15 15:22:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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Yeah I'm talking more about taking ALL my levels down and putting them back up at the same time haha Centurion24 did something similar a while back, and essentially dominated the Cool Levels for several days. I don't know if you had heard of it or noticed it. https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=12392 Honestly, since that caper and my own experience, I don't see Cool Levels as being that beneficial for the average player. The best that could be done is to lead them here to LBPC. Apparently putting the LBPC sticker inside of levels (assuming they aren't bad levels) tends to bring people here naturally. Unfortunately, because of the recent search bug, Cool Levels becomes one of the only ways to receive new plays and that only lasts for 7 days, so it becomes a bit of a catch-22.

2009-10-15 15:40:00 Author: Gilgamesh Posts: 2536

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Ive been experimenting with the various publishishing stategies to position your levels in a better position to recieve more attention in the long term. I decided to publish the mario level again with a few improvements but to keep it from becoming popular on the cool levels by locking it until the last few days. After 7 days from intially publishing I opened it again. It seems to work as i noticed that a lot of high rated levels star off with a low amount of plays, but due to their positioning on the highest rated they are easier to find for players that havent played it before resulting in greater exposure from new players in the long term. Also i didnt want it to get a large amount of plays on the cool levels as the aim is to only get people who have never played it before to experience the level. I published the horror level over the old copy for a couple of hours to see if its theres any difference between popularity of two different levels with the same positiong. Obviously you couldnt do that to better position your levels permanently due to tags, high scores and the fact that it would really annoy the peoply who rated and hearted the level that was copied over. From what ive gathered if you have a level get to the highest rated page it may be wise to lock your level if it becomes very popular on the cool levels resulting in people that play the busiest level at the time and rate low if its not what they want, too hard, just out of hatred ect. You will sacrifice the fast flow of plays during the time on the cool levels but over a longer duration of time it should payoff. Republishing can result in these types people playing your level too. Therefore if your goal is to achive a better rating, republishing may not be a good idea. Ive actually seen someone whos on page one of the cool levels at the moment who has locked their level at the bottom of the map when it made it to the highest rated. Presumably they will unlock it when the 7 days are up. I think Centurion24 was publishing a new level every day during the period he had many of his levels on page one of the cool levels. When speaking with him he mentined that he spent up to 15 hours a day creating. As soon as one was complete and published he would start another.

2009-10-15 15:52:00 Author: SteveBigGuns Posts: 423

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I've been thinking about going back to my old levels and fixing some of them. However, I wouldn't consider taking them down and then republishing them. Mostly because I don't really care if they get plays. Also, I'd rather people not form their opinion of me as a creator from my first 4 or 5 levels. It's funny how I was so proud of them when they came out, but now I'm almost embarrassed to have them open to the public! So yeah, you won't see any 'new' old levels from me For the most part, I'd rather see people not take their levels down and republish. That could potentially double or triple the amount of published levels, which would make it even more difficult for the 'real' new levels to surface. I say for the most part because there are some real gems that only get a couple hundred plays. It's a shame because those levels can/could inspire upcoming creators. If that were the case, I would consider republishing acceptable (I'm obviously talking about really great creators who are not well known - so no, I'm not talking about myself ).

2009-10-15 15:54:00 Author: Powershifter Posts: 668

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Ah, the mystery is explained with regards to Steve. I was wondering why in the world you were republishing again.

2009-10-15 15:58:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Actually this is probably a good thread to mention something else I was thinking about. I've been considering taking down Pretty Simple and making a few changes to it and then putting it back up as a brand new level. All the criticism that it received were centred around the 'atmosphere' and 'feel' of the level. Now while how it is at the minute is exactly as I envisaged and as a creator you can't really do more than that, I think it could be interesting to see if I changed the music and a few other sound effects (the things people commented most on), whether it would be received by the majority any better.

2009-10-15 15:59:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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Actually this is probably a good thread to mention something else I was thinking about. I've been considering taking down Pretty Simple and making a few changes to it and then putting it back up as a brand new level. All the criticism that it received were centred around the 'atmosphere' and 'feel' of the level. Now while how it is at the minute is exactly as I envisaged and as a creator you can't really do more than that, I think it could be interesting to see if I changed the music and a few other sound effects (the things people commented most on), whether it would be received by the majority any better. I think it would be received better by the general population, but you have to ask yourself, if the level is exactly how you want it to be, why would you change it to suit others? I could understand changing a level if you were constantly being mailed about a certain section not working, or if the gameplay was just plain terrible, but aesthetics is purely subjective and a creator such as yourself is clearly able to make a level look exactly how you want it.

2009-10-15 16:17:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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I think it would be received better by the general population, but you have to ask yourself, if the level is exactly how you want it to be, why would you change it to suit others? I could understand changing a level if you were constantly being mailed about a certain section not working, or if the gameplay was just plain terrible, but aesthetics is purely subjective and a creator such as yourself is clearly able to make a level look exactly how you want it. Yeah I do understand your point and it's something I've thought about myself. However, it is just the music, and playing it back now I can see why it may be a problem. It can give off a 'boring vibe' tbh. I'm just playing OH NO!!! 3 now...and I've just paused it to type this and I noticed that too is using the Crying In The Wind music...now I've never even realised this before because it's accompanied by a lot of other sound effects etc. Whereas with Pretty Simple, that song is pretty much the only thing you ever hear..and it can become monotonous and annoying to some people. I think it could make it a more rounded and playable level, without losing the essence of what I was trying to achieve...I'll have to have a play around with it

2009-10-15 16:22:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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I had to re-publish once, as jww mentioned, but the level was borked so i didn't have any quandry. Borked is an understatement! That was one huge nightmare for you to remedy and I hope I made that clear. With your situation, republishing was totally warranted.

2009-10-15 16:38:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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I thought about that before and I would actually do it, as long as it means enhancing the old levels first. You know, not just a cheap republish in a new spot for the sake of it. It depends how attached you are to your old work I suppose. I prefer going forward and always make new levels. After all, there was a time when my old levels were new and they had their prime time so I might as well move on. Anyhow, the only downside I would see with this whole story would be someone who publishes like more than 3 levels simultaneously. We already know what it works, we even had a member here that quite completely monitored the first page of the cool levels for a week. And this is exactly the problem: if you publish too many levels at the same time you unfairly take too much space. You could republish your old levels at a rate of 1 or 2 a week and you would still have good results imo. .

2009-10-15 17:53:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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i dont have a problem with anyone republishing old levels. It is just a strategy to get there levels played, that they think people would like. Its not really cheating and most likely doesnt block other good levels from reaching the cool level pages. Hopefully it will block another piece of crap from getting on the cool pages. The only way to cheat and get on cool pages would be to hack into lbp servers and force your level on to cool pages. Any other trick is just pure strategy. Some people may not like a particular stratagy becuase they want there level to rise to the top based purely on there work. This will never happen though as if you publish your level once and never do anything again to promote yourself or your level then it will be washed away in a few minutes. This is just like most things in life people only succeed when they try to succeed and obtain recognition. Someone can be the best at something and get no where in life if they dont step out and try to get recognition. I say if you think you can get more levels cemented on to the highest rated then go for it. If it is not that good it will not make it there or will eventually get knocked off. If it is good enough and to be there then there is nothing wrong with trying again. Getting on to cool pages and on highest rated is another game in itsself, there is a system governs these pages and it is up to the players to form the best strategy with in that system if they want to win the game. there are some people that make awesome levels and they dont ever make it there simply becuase they dont choose to play the game or they have a very poor strategy at playing the game of cool pages. You see crappy levels on cool pages becuase there are people that may not be good at making levels but understand what it takes to rise up the pages. It is not very difficult to rise up the pages, as it just takes time on the creators behalf to keep pushing it for the 7 days available. And if you put many months into making something, then what would be wrong with putting some serious time into getting your efforts recognized. when compared to the time you spent making a level if it is a good level then the amount of time you have to put into promoting is much less in actuality but it has to be time spent consistantly, unlike in the building process as the regonisation system only allows you a few days. If you failed in this aspect of the game or you feel you could have preformed better in this aspect of the game there is nothing worng trying to play this part of the game over. Which would be deletion and republishing of your level. And if you do finally succeed there is nothing wrong building on that momentum and trying to play this aspect of the game again with a level you built previous and felt it was underappreciated. As i stated before you can do anything you want to form your strategy as long as your not hacking servers, otherwise it is all fair strategy as oneone else can employ the same strategy. if someone could get 20 levels on highest rated then respect will go out to them for mastery of the game, or even 20 levels on page 1.

2009-10-15 21:06:00 Author: deboerdave Posts: 384

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I still have not figured out how the cool levels system works. I do republish a level that receives high ratings and not many plays but usually after its been up for about a month. Still though I have republished a level and never saw it reach the pages even though it had a 5 star rating and at the same time a level I published just a day after that one had only 3 stars and shows up. A number of my levels are competitive type levels, usually between me and regulars that play them. I republish these as well but again only after its been up for a while. If they added a score board reset option I would not even have to republish those.

2009-10-17 03:11:00 Author: rz22g Posts: 340

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rz22g, I think it's the amount of plays that get you onto page 1. Not too sure though.

2009-10-17 03:29:00 Author: olit123 Posts: 1341

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rz22g, I think it's the amount of plays that get you onto page 1. Not too sure though. Yes I thought so but the second level I posted that I mentioned above had less plays and a lower rating and it was on page 4. The other level never showed up. Also sometimes I can go to cool pages and page though till it stops and it might go to page 8. An hour later I can do the same it it goes up to page 20. Then later that day only 6 pages.

2009-10-17 03:45:00 Author: rz22g Posts: 340

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Yes I thought so but the second level I posted that I mentioned above had less plays and a lower rating and it was on page 4. The other level never showed up. Also sometimes I can go to cool pages and page though till it stops and it might go to page 8. An hour later I can do the same it it goes up to page 20. Then later that day only 6 pages. Quick lesson: Whenever you publish a level after saving it, it goes up to page 1 and starts pushing down as other newly published levels are also published. During this time it has a "glow" around it, signifying a level that has just been published. So, republishing over the old slot after saving will get you a few plays from folks who see it. When it stops glowing and is sitting on a cool page, this means it is "cemented" there based on a combination of plays/hearts/ratings. Over the 7 days since you first publish it fresh, it has a chance to keep rising through the pages. Once the 7 days are over it will no longer be cemented on cool pages, however you can still republish it and have it "glow" again... and therefore get some more plays. The discussion on this thread is in reference to publishing the level AGAIN in a new slot so it has a chance to rise through cool pages again after the 7 days.

2009-10-17 04:00:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Also sometimes I can go to cool pages and page though till it stops and it might go to page 8. An hour later I can do the same it it goes up to page 20. Then later that day only 6 pages. From what I can gather, when you select a certain criteria such as Cool Levels, it is basically a query to the database. Those results may take a bit to return depending on server activity, ping rate etc. I've found if you page through a bit slower, you tend to be allowing more data to return and as a result get more pages. If you move too fast (while still seeing the internet waiting symbol), you might bump past the page of returned results as it seems Mm sets the last page limit at that current page. I could be misinterpreting this, but that is what it seems to me.

2009-10-17 05:03:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Ok if this is the case then there must some type of delay or something that is preventing me from seeing current information. I never saw my lower rated, lower played level on page 1, 2 or 3 and only saw it on page 4 late today, 2 or days more after it was published.

2009-10-17 05:05:00 Author: rz22g Posts: 340

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