Archive: 29 posts

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So, I'm workin' on my next OH NO!!! THE PRINCESS!!! level, and there's a gameplay bit I'm rather fond of. Trouble is, if a person were bored enough, they could use it to (very, very slowly) score as many points as they wanted. I'm fairly certain it would take HOURS to reach the maximum point total, but hey, lots of people don't have jobs right now, right? Anyway, does anyone (besides jackofcourse) think this is a level-ruining gaffe? I know some people (jackofcourse) are enjoying competing for points, but it's a pretty fun gimmick and there's no other way to do it.

2009-10-11 02:19:00 Author: CaptainCowboyHat Posts: 153

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So, I'm workin' on my next OH NO!!! THE PRINCESS!!! level, and there's a gameplay bit I'm rather fond of. Trouble is, if a person were bored enough, they could use it to (very, very slowly) score as many points as they wanted. I'm fairly certain it would take HOURS to reach the maximum point total, but hey, lots of people don't have jobs right now, right? Anyway, does anyone (besides jackofcourse) think this is a level-ruining gaffe? I know some people (jackofcourse) are enjoying competing for points, but it's a pretty fun gimmick and there's no other way to do it. Well, I know exactly what you are talking about (inside scoops for the win ), and I think it's pretty unavoidable. When i first used it, someone took the time to max out the level. It must've taken them ages (like 20-30 minutes), but they did it. In my opinion you should leave it how it is. This one will be a bit unique in that the high score is a bit meaningless, but I still think you should go for. Although, Jack won't be happy... Edit: If you really want to get into it, I can probably help you sort out a way for them to only work for a certain period of time before shutting off (they would turn back on once the player leaves the area and comes back, in the event of dying). It shouldn't even take all the much logic, as long as you choose the right way to do it. The killer for these is the multiplier. If you can cut down on the multiplier, people won't chase the million point score as much. I will warn you, multiplayer will be fun

2009-10-11 02:24:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I think a lot of people aim to find secrets and get the high score, especially in levels like yours. Levels with point glitches also tend to come off as unpolished. I'd suggest putting some effort in to avoid it, but if it has to be left in, it wouldn't ruin the level.

2009-10-11 02:24:00 Author: Killian Posts: 2575

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Well, whoever is the top player will be known as having no life... lol, just playing... Can't really give an opinion because I don't know how this part in the level will work.

2009-10-11 02:26:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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The killer for these is the multiplier. If you can cut down on the multiplier, people won't chase the million point score as much. Happily, getting a multiplier is impossible! Thanks for the feedback. I'm so torn about this!

2009-10-11 03:21:00 Author: CaptainCowboyHat Posts: 153

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I would have to agree with... well pretty much everyone. I'm kinda on both sides of the fence here cuz I hate it when I do everything I can to get a high score and then I get to the board and see that all top 5 players are #1 with 2million points... bust! But then I think to myself to bad I didnt think of that first Lol. I can say that if I were to make a level like that I would lock it and give keys to all my lbp friends and have them all grab the first 5 slots but Im analretentive lol

2009-10-11 04:23:00 Author: tru3_skitz0 Posts: 114

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That is a conundrum. What about this though? After the point where the gimmick is, put a "million point point bubble" there - you could find where to find one in the Object Showcase subforum. Probably give a story excuse if you can so it doesn't appear completely random. Just make sure they collect it at a moment where something nebulously "signifigant" happens so it's not jarring. This could be as simple as stepping through the "Portal of Power" or "Grabbing the Bubble of Destiny". Whatever. After they leave the point, force at least one death on them ("teleport?") that leaves them in a place where they cannot continue the "exploit". (I forget exactly what this brings their score to ... 900,000?) This way, the mechanic that's exploitable remains intact, but all players will have the same score at this point immediately afterward, allowing them to compete on even ground.

2009-10-11 04:51:00 Author: Jagrevi Posts: 1154

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I say find a way to avoid it. Perhaps more than most other levels, the OH NO series are incredibly good fun to try and get a high score. I love going back and trying to find all the secret areas to try and get on the leaderboard. And trying not to die too. You have the balance perfect so that exploration and skill get rewarded. If you have this potential infite points gimmick, then in my opinion it would slighlty ruin the replay value. There's little point trying to find those hidden areas and avoid dying if you won't be able to beat the high score of someone who's bored enough to spend hours getting 1 million points.

2009-10-11 12:10:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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Honestly, if it isn't right at the end of your level - not many people are going to get past the rest of it without losing a few hundred lives But Comp seems to know a way, so maybe ask him Icey

2009-10-11 12:31:00 Author: Coxy224 Posts: 2645

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The first post I ever made on this site was complaining about a glitch like this in one of Grant's levels... It's still there, I think, but no one has ever maxed out. So it shouldn't really be a problem.

2009-10-11 12:49:00 Author: ARD Posts: 4291

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People WILL try to get a million points, no matter how long it takes... I had a bug in an old minigame where you could land in a spot and safely collect points without risk of dying... there was no way to activate a multiplyer though, but about 6 people of the few plays it had still spent the hours it took to reach 1 million. I would definitely institute a limiter on whatever it is somehow, as compher said and have a death or two negate the value of a possible score with it's 5% loss... you've got a perfect track record on your series so far, and trust me, nothing is more annoying for you than a scoreboard with exaggerated scores - it makes possible future changes difficult (the max #1 score must always be attainable, and thermo must be available for it, no matter how minute) AND such a ridiculous, time consuming score is disheartening to players who want a go at the top 10 or #1 spot... if the only way is to be cheap, a small minority of lunatics will do it, and the regular players will just say "forget it" - effectively cutting out the potential replay value for a huge chunk of your audience... and your series is definitely weighted on it's playability and it's replayability.

2009-10-11 13:20:00 Author: Unknown User

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/ / / I agree with NinjaMicWZ. I think it all depends on the type of level - if your level is more of a "story-quality" that doesn't count on points, it doesn't matter whether it has points at ALL. But if you have a level that counts on classic gameplay and part of the motivation for multiple plays is the score you are probably going to shoot yourself in the foot by having a way to get unlimited points. This level series, at least for me, is the exact TYPE of level that needs to not have the potential for unlimited points.

2009-10-11 14:06:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Well, it saddens me to hear everyone's response because I know what the mechanic in question is. I think it can be used to great effect. Since the multiplier is gone, does that mean the player has to die a bunch in order to get the exploit? If that's the case, adding a large number of points before this section would result in a minimal effect of the exploit (since dying takes away a percentage of the score). Get to this point with a large number of bubbles and die? You'll start losing points very quickly. You might be onto something with the infinite point bubble, but it's pretty thermo heavy (3-4 bars).

2009-10-11 14:15:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Is there no way to make a failsafe that prevents the player from abusing it? I love your platforming style and the "Princess" series as a whole, but a good portion of that enjoyment has been competing for a high score.

2009-10-11 14:25:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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It might help everyone to understand the conundrum if you just tell them what the mechanic is...? Or would that be too spoiler heavy?

2009-10-11 14:31:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Hmm. I'd really love to use this mechanic, but every counterargument in this thread is quite right. Maybe I'll just build an unrelated level around the mechanic instead of putting it into OH NO!!! I really do love it, but I don't want to hurt replayability. And I've been looking for an excuse to make a non-OH NO!!! level... Maybe this way everyone wins?

2009-10-11 16:42:00 Author: CaptainCowboyHat Posts: 153

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How about a level whose key is only accessible to finding all the secrets in the newest OH NO level? Sounds like a good motivator...

2009-10-11 16:51:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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Lol, so I guess my idea was weak enough to be dismissed without mention?

2009-10-11 17:27:00 Author: Jagrevi Posts: 1154

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Lol, so I guess my idea was weak enough to be dismissed without mention? Haha, sorry, I pretty much dismissed that idea once comphermc said the special point bubble would cost me three thermo bars.

2009-10-11 17:41:00 Author: CaptainCowboyHat Posts: 153

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Hmmm, I don't remember it taking any thermo away when I used it. Then again, based on how thermo works, it really depends on which "sub-thermo" is the highest for you I guess.

2009-10-11 17:53:00 Author: Jagrevi Posts: 1154

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Just put a sign at the end of the level. If you get over X amount of points, you HAVE NO LIFE!!!

2009-10-11 18:05:00 Author: bonner123 Posts: 1487

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Haha, I had considered having the King make fun of people who would bother doing it, but that wouldn't really deter the people who would do it...since I imagine they don't read the dialogue in the first place.

2009-10-11 18:28:00 Author: CaptainCowboyHat Posts: 153

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You could possibly make it so that if the player stays in the area with the exploit for too long, they get gassed and the checkpoint gets moved. Then again, I have no idea what it is and am probably aiming in the wrong direction.

2009-10-11 20:39:00 Author: Killian Posts: 2575

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Haha, I had considered having the King make fun of people who would bother doing it, but that wouldn't really deter the people who would do it...since I imagine they don't read the dialogue in the first place. Heh, that would actually make me want to sit there for hours just to see what the King says.

2009-10-11 21:08:00 Author: Nuclearfish Posts: 927

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Well you already know my feelings about it after our long talks over the chat feature I'm glad to see a lot of people agreeing with it. I wasn't sure if I was being a little biased seeing as I love going for the top scores! I've seen a few suggestions that have implied that you'd need to kill the player in order to take them to a new location so infinite points isn't a problem anymore (sorry if that's not exactly right I've only skimmed the thread). Personally I really wouldn't do this. I really don't like it when a creator forces death upon a player to transport them. It just feels 'botchy' and unpolished to me. I'm talking in your normal platforming levels here, obviously there's exceptions such as 'Die Save Reload' . I just feel being able to ace a level (no matter how hard in your case ) is a big part of the LBP experience.

2009-10-11 22:05:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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For something like this, it would kinda ruin it... I'm trying to find out what it can be that can't possibly have a a timer, but :/. Anyway, I am of the opinion that the high score would be such an integral part, and in order for your level to maintain the aspects we all love, to maintain keeping the series in tact, that getting a high score would, in my opinion, be more important then a cool feature. But yeah, my opinion is that high scores would be more important, but I suppose it's your level D:.

2009-10-11 22:13:00 Author: RockSauron Posts: 10882

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i would probably avoid it. I think by having unlimited points available should be looked at as flaw in the game design. The thing that brings me back to play your levels more than once is the challenge it provides in going for perfection. That what makes it replable, of course you can still have a perfection in not dieing and hitting all the combos, but you lose your measuring stick as the score becomes non-interpurtable. I would think if you are doing something with bubbles you should be able to recreate the same sort of thing using circles of disolve, player sensors, and a sond object to recreate the same feeling with out any points givien away

2009-10-12 21:12:00 Author: deboerdave Posts: 384

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So you can't just gas the player that stays in the vicinity for too long (thereby wiping his advantage)?

2009-10-12 21:41:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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So you can't just gas the player that stays in the vicinity for too long (thereby wiping his advantage)? I suppose I COULD, but I wouldn't know how long to have the gas wait. Having it come too early or too late would be a bit of a pain. Plus people would then try to get as many endless points as they could before the gas arrived, and that would be encouraging the behavior I'd prefer to curb! EDIT: Perhaps I haven't yet made it clear - I'll be removing the infinite points loop for sure. You've all convinced me. But you can expect to see the gimmick in an unrelated level someday! And you can get infinite points in it all you want!

2009-10-12 22:55:00 Author: CaptainCowboyHat Posts: 153

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