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Bubble Caves (MmSC Survival Challenge) *SPOTLIGHTED!*

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Bubble Caves (MmSC Survival Challenge)Treas
http://www.abload.de/img/2livesimr4.jpgSomewhere in Africa, deep down under the surface, you'll find... the Bubble Caves! No one knows why or when, but apparently, some weird guy has built a very unique machine down here in those creepy caves. 8 Pillars for you to jump on. Miss a jump and you'll find yourself down in the deadly gas!
all
Bubble Caves



Level Name: Bubble Caves (MmSC Survival Challenge)
Author Name: Treas
Location: West Africa
Level Seal:

http://www.abload.de/img/iconowim.png



Description:

Somewhere in Africa, deep down under the surface, you'll find... the Bubble Caves! No one knows why or when, but apparently, some weird guy has built a very unique machine down here in those creepy caves. 8 Pillars for you to jump on. Miss a jump and you'll find yourself down in the deadly gas!

"Well, what's the challenge in standing on some bland pillars", you might ask yourself. Be warned! Point bubbles will appear at random on those 8 pillars. "Point bubbles? Great. Gotta catch 'em all!", you might think. Well, basically, you're right! The twist: If a point bubble stays on a pillar for more than a few seconds, the pillar will slowly start sinking down into the deadly gas. It's your choice whether you let it be or try to save it by jumping down on it and collecting the bubble.

But be careful! Each lost pillar will cost you one "life". You start off with 3 such lives, indicated by green lights on a display centered in the playing area. Lose 3 or more pillars, and the game is over!

Video:

http://www.abload.de/img/youtube-player28hn.png (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHQHR6Uwr-8)


Screenshots:

http://www.abload.de/img/scoreboard58h4.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/rocksymnp.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/prestartgwa0.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/3lives5jbp.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/2livesimr4.jpg


Behind the Scenes:

http://www.abload.de/img/tutorialevvm.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/tech24wli.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/tech1b88w.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/intmusic7v7s.jpg

http://www.abload.de/img/basementyjoc.jpg


Closing Words:

Well, I hope you enjoyed my presentation. And thanks for the patience, this one turned out to be quite a bit of reading. Any feedback is appreciated! Oh, and you might want to give my other levels (mainly survival challenges) a try. Thanks!		2009-09-26 21:28:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Ahaha! Your here! I've been a fan of yours since your first runner level came out!

I played this a week ago and loved it, it's a great concept and it was well excecuted! I didn't find anything wrong with it!		2009-09-26 22:04:00

Author:
Kog
Posts: 2358

Hey Treas! Nice to see you here.

I played this about a week ago (and I think you've updated it since then, so I'll have to play it again), and it was really well done. As a fellow survival challenge enthusiast, I kind of know what makes a good one, and what I really loved was the simple idea. It's easy to understand what you need to do, but complex enough to make it interesting.

One thing which I didn't quite enjoy (again though, this was before it was updated and you may have changed it) is how rarely I died from losing the 3 "lives". In fact after a few goes at the level, I don't think any of them got to the bottom, because I always died by falling in between the pillars because I mis-timed my jump. The focus seemes to be stopping the pillars from sinking and the gaps are only supposed to be a secondary danger, but to me the gaps were a bigger problem. Not sure if they might be better closer together so it's more likely you'll die after running out of "lives".

But that's just my opinion anyway. 		2009-09-26 22:26:00

Author:
Nuclearfish
Posts: 927

One thing which I didn't quite enjoy (again though, this was before it was updated and you may have changed it) is how rarely I died from losing the 3 "lives".

Hey - this is what bothers me most concerning Bubble Caves!
And be assured that I'm working on a solution. Even if I had to re-upload it and start from 0 plays and hearts again (already did this before), it will be worth it.

I've got several concepts on paper, but I don't know which one would be most efficient. I search a way to keep the player from falling off the platforms as long as the pillars are up, but to hinder them from just running back and forth, collecting point bubbles on the run.

Gaps are the most obvious obstacle to make the player jump, but you can easily fall off. User neoviny came up with the idea of adding a checkpoint that floats above the playing area (always over the topmost pillar), and I think this would be the best solution to date. Falling off would give players a time penalty, but they would get a second chance.

Only problem is that I need to move the checkpoint to the scoreboard (destroying it after the player has lost 1 or more lifes will result in "you've lost all lifes" instead of spawning the player at the scoreboard), so I'd have to create a new area.

I've got some other methods up, but none of them are quite satisfying, so I guess I'm gonna take the checkpoint-method. If anyone has got a better solution, leave a comment here


Thanks for all the feedback, folks!

Oh, @Nuclearfish: Yeah, I guess we're the two Survival-Maniacs out there. Loved both Clockworx and the Spiralizer (and Tumblerizer).

Know what? We've got to collaborate on a new SC project once OC is out!		2009-09-26 22:35:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Howdy. Very nice level thread.

I played this a couple of times last week, but apparently you've updated it? I didn't make it very far, but I really like the idea. I was impressed by the apparent simplicity, but I know it is far from simple behind the scenes (which the pictures confirm). I'll be sure to give this another go now that I have a place to leave proper feedback.

I appreciate the care with which you've organized your logic. I think you'd get along well with rtm223 (member here). He's invented several different logic techniques, and revolutionized the way chains can be used with logic (set-reset, quick reset timers, variable length pistons, wheel speed threshold switches [actual detection], dissolve-free PERMs, flexible AND and OR gates, etc.). Really neat stuff in my opinion. In fact, stick around and we'll be able to help you eliminate all that dissolve you've used in your level. Feel free to ask if you're interested.

As a survival buff, you might also be interested in my only survival challenge to date. It's similar to yours in that it looks plain on the surface, but it get's very complex. Not as logic intensive as yours, but it's in the same vein. I'm not looking for plays or anything, just thought it might pique your interest. It can be found here:

Brain Chain Mini-Game: Survival Challenge (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=13607)

Cheers.		2009-09-27 00:57:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Thanks for your feedback

I've already played (and even hearted!) Brain Chain, nice stuff. Gonna leave detailed feedback on your thread though.

As for your suggestion: Why not use dissolvable? While I know that it can be achieved in other ways, I think that dissolvable and emitters produce the most reliable and responsive gates. Oh, and don't let the huge number of dissolvable blocks in my behind-the-scenes fool you; I did only use dark matter and dissolvable to build my entire logic system. This way, I saved space for another material (used to use cardboard for the non-dissolving, moveable parts of the logic systems, but I got rid of that).


rtm223's advanced gates sound quite interesting, gotta take a closer look at those.

As for the updates: Yes, I've updated the thread after receiving some nice suggestions from neoviny and jackofcourse. The pillars sink down 1.5 times as fast when only 2 lives are remaining and 2.25 times as fast with only one life remaining. There's now 3 bubbles per pillar instead of 1. Added various graphical and other details and some other cool stuff.		2009-09-27 01:11:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Cool, I'll be sure to play it again then.

The dissolve free PERM stuff is more useful for regular levels in that they can be reset if accidentally triggered and you don't catch it right away. They don't add any more to the thermo, as connectors (pistons, winches) count for a different thermo.

With regard for the dissolve/cardboard debate - they are treated as essentially the same material since they are in the same class. It's a bit convoluted, but I have been compiling an overview to all things thermo related. It's a thread that might be of interest. Find it here: Comprehensive Thermo Overview (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=16840)

Sorry, I know I'm linking you all over the place. Thanks for the kind words regarding my Brain Chain level. I'll have you know that a sequel is in the works, but I have no idea when that's coming.		2009-09-27 01:18:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

Aaaah - you finally make it to this fine place! Great to see you here Treas!

And due to your SC: it is really a great work what you deliver here! Not many creators have the abilitys to make such a high-tech level. Everything works just the way it should be and the SC itself plays very good (even if I am not a big fan of SCs) - with your update to the 3-point-clusters it comes with more fun-potential but (lol) I die to fast every time I play this game (but don't call me noob ^^). Nuclearfish has a really brilliant point with his idea: the real danger should be the descending pillars. Sounds very good to me and I really interested in playing a solution on that one...

But nevertheless: in my view: 5stars for a perfectly executed project! Amazing job and lot of fun!

Greets
Neo		2009-09-27 01:55:00

Author:
(___NEO___)
Posts: 206

That thermo guide is nice, thanks for the link! Great work on that guide. Sent you a PM with a little guide on how to trick emitters to save up to 99% of the emitter thermo space. Without this trick, most of my Survival Challenges would not have been possible to make.

And thanks for all the great feedback! I'm currently working on a system to prevent players from dieing by simply falling off. I really want the sinking pillars to be the most dangerous element. Got some nice concepts up, I'll keep you guys up to date.		2009-09-27 11:09:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Okay this level is very fun and unique, but what I really want to know is how do you make things go at random in your survival challenges! I've tried to come up with a way, I got one but it's not THERMOEFFICIENT. I think I've got the a way in mind but have not tried it in create mode. I left a comment on one of your levels asking the same thing (Wow I feel dumb), because I relly want to know!! I'm stumped at how amazing your levels are!! Keep them coming!2009-09-27 14:51:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Thanks piggabling! Saw your comment on my level a few minutes ago and guess what - I left an answer on your survival challenge, advising you to visit a certain site called lbpcentral.com for nice tutorials

Well, I used quite a simple randomizer. To achieve randomness, you need two basic elements:

A Randomizer: This one makes things random.

A Picker: A device that, whenever being activated, chooses one out of X different switches.

As for the randomizer, I've used 3 wheels attached to each other with motor bolts, attached to a piece of dark matter. The motor bolts are activated by proximity switches on the playing are set to "speed". This makes it random, as the player position at every given moment determines the speed of the whole wheel construction. The wheel's got a mag key and switch set to speed, so the wheel movement determines the final output speed of the mag switch. The mag switch is connected to the spinning wheel of my picker. Sounds complicated, but it really is rather easy. Takes about 1% of each affected thermometre type.

Oh, and big UPDATE:

PSN user slyed26 found a glitch! If 2 pillars dropped at the exact same moment, the player would only lose 1 life. That way, players who knew that trick could get rid of 4 pillars with 1 life remaining. I fixed it.		2009-09-27 21:54:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Important Huge Update!

Added teh lolspeakz and sum cheezburgerz.

Well, of course, having cheezburgerz at your disposal would be a great addition to the challenge, but I'm sorry I ran out of cheezburgerz. I was pretty hungry.

So, here's the update. I listened to you, Nuclearfish (and to all other suggestions as well!) and worked hard on an improved version. So here it is. Instead of having to fear getting killed if you miss a single jump (which resulted in the 3 lives-system being more of a bonus, since most players would die with 3 lives remaining), I added "emergency elevators" - small platforms between the pillars which will bring players back up if they fall down. However, getting on top of the pillars again will take quite a few seconds. I think this penalty is a better solution than the instant death.

As said, I've also fixed some bugs, added some sound and optical details and tweaked a few settings to make it run smoother. Plus, I completely rewrote the tutorial to fit the new updated version. Enjoy!		2009-09-27 23:06:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Thanks for the help........ again!!! HAHA!2009-09-28 02:23:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

Ok, I just searched (and found, yay!) an in-depth tutorial on how to create a perfect randomizer I wrote a while ago. I thought I'd post it here.

Creating truly random Randomizers! (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=p=299180#post299180)

As for my challenge: Thanks for all the great feedback, both via lbpc and comments/stars/hearts!

I've started working on my next Survival Challenge btw. It will be a sequel to Jungle Drums. Similiar in terms of gameplay (platforming with a randomized level-building machine), but the tech behind it will be 300 times better and create more interesting patterns.		2009-09-28 13:18:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

I absolutely love this level. It is perfect in its execution.

I know it would be hard to implement, but would it be possible to create an "easy" version with wider pillars? I would love to play this with others but their skills aren't where they need to be to land the precision jumps necessary.

Again, great :star::star::star::star::star: survival level!		2009-10-04 02:09:00

Author:
ElGueroGigante
Posts: 85

Thanks for your comment! Well, creating an easy mode should be possible. I could even manage to integrate it into the existing level. This will be much more difficult than just publishing a second version, but I want to save my free level slots. I'll give it a try.2009-10-05 06:28:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Thanks for your comment! Well, creating an easy mode should be possible. I could even manage to integrate it into the existing level. This will be much more difficult than just publishing a second version, but I want to save my free level slots. I'll give it a try.

I hear you! I just would love to get as much as possible out of your concept. It is absolutely perfect! The mechanics are just too good in their execution, but just be a little too hard for some to enjoy.

Again great level!		2009-10-05 19:31:00

Author:
ElGueroGigante
Posts: 85

Heck, I would have never thought that an added "Easy Mode" could take up 20% of the thermo. Well, I had to add OR Gates to most mechanisms (point spawning, bomb spawning, elevator timing...), but still...

Well, a good 3 hours o' work went into that Easy Mode, and... I like it. I didn't make the platforms bigger; adding tiny extensions would have been impossible via emitting, and larger extensions would have made it far too easy.

Instead, I decided to give the emergency elevators an upgrade when playing on Easy. They go up four times as fast as in Normal Mode, and they do not disappear when an adjacent pillar drops down.

Each advantage comes with a downside, however! You'll only find one point bubble per pillar instead of 3.

I hope some of you might give it another go and take a look at the newly implemented easy mode. ElGueroGigante, I'm eager to see what you think about it.

Oh, and another important update: I do really love LBPC, so I've decided to put a rusty LBPC sign in the level.		2009-10-13 01:27:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Humunahumanhumanahumanalookatalltheswitches!2009-10-13 21:38:00

Author:
SPONGMONKEY56
Posts: 209

The level even tells me to space the playing area out... Probably because of the many wires. In edit mode, the framerate drops down to approximately 10fps while moving wires. So yes, there are quite a few wires.

By the way - we need "edit mode stats"! Something like that:

Wires used: 870
Magnetic keys used: 230
Magnetic switches used: 42
etc.

Anyways. I'm probably gonna take a bunch of new, high-quality behind-the-scenes pics, since the mechanics are now twice as complex as opposed to the first published version. Thermo 80% full (must be the tech thermo).		2009-10-13 22:10:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

wow Treas, you keep on making improvements this already-awesome level

If everyone was this willing to rebuild their levels in pursuit of gameplay perfection, LBP would be an amazing place. (It already is I suppose! but whatev.)


Anyways, I've tried the elevators and no-elevator variants. Looking forward to giving easy mode a shot soon 		2009-10-14 02:05:00

Author:
Tig-W
Posts: 106

Thanks Tig-W

Yeah, I'm kind of a perfectionist. I've given up on some of my older levels (it works, so most people won't even think about it, but trust me, my tech and logic constructions in my older levels - Jungle Drums, for example - are utter crap...), but I keep improving my quality levels as much as I can. I did even go as far as to delete the published version with over 1000 plays, just to get the highscore table clean (as I had to revamp the degree of difficulty).		2009-10-14 22:02:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Just from the amazing presentation, I can tell your level will be awesome. lol.

(FYI, don't let rtm223 see this, he'll kill you for using disslove in your logic lol)		2009-10-14 22:16:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

Why? Dissolve material is absolutely neccisary in extremely technical level. Well, it seems to be! HaHa!2009-10-15 01:44:00

Author:
piggabling
Posts: 2979

It's not. You can actually create permanent switches using emitters. You can even create resettable ones. The reason I decided to use dissolve is quite simple: It uses less thermo than other methods, is tidy (in terms of switch/wire linking) and it does completely fit all of my needs. Having an RS latch at your disposal is nice, but if there is no way I would ever need to reset my P-switches, I just stick to normal ones.

Apart from that, dissolvable should never be put on a par with the term of "permanent"! Think of emitters - emitting dissolvable and then either demitting, remitting or dissolving it can be used for many cool purposes.

I love dissolvable!		2009-10-15 17:51:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

You're forgetting that there's another way to make a P-switch that doesn't use dissolve.

I am keeping it a secret for now, but it is straight from the mind of rtm. You wouldn't think it's necessary to reset them, but once you see how simple it is, you'll think, "Eh, why not?"

Also, there is a pretty low thermo way to make a SR logic piece, for which it can satisfy all your "emit, then dissolve" type logics.		2009-10-15 18:06:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

I think I get what you're pointing at. Still, I think there's no way to beat an 8 vertices, no physical calculations, 2 switch pieces logic board. Well, ok, you could cut the two squares down to triangles to save 2 vertices, but I won't do that because I love the grid look of my logics

I did already come up with several nice and simple SR latches, but I don't think that any of them would be as thermo-friendly as you describe it... They do all include at least one piston and emitter plus MKey+MSwitch.

Anyways... I think we should carry this nice little talk over to the tutorial or help forums, since it's not really Bubble Caves-related anymore 		2009-10-15 18:19:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Sorry for bumping, but I've got some nice updates!

First of all, let's talk about the level itself. Some may have observed that I messed up the logics with my "Easy Mode" update. In fact, I disabled the elevators from dropping down, even when playing in "Normal Mode", and even after all 3 lives had been lost! It really was a stupid mistake, but I solved it quickly, using... *glances at rtm223*... dissolvable! Lovely, greenish, disappear-soonish dissolvable.

Anyways, now for the cool stuff: I've received such great feedback and so many cool ideas and suggestions here that I've decided to finally upload and show you a bunch of recent, high-quality "behind the scenes"-pics. Some of them show more wires in the same area than others; this is due to the fact that the farther you zoom out, the more wires the game will hide.

Anyways, enough chit-chat. Enjoy!

This pic shows the complete base construction. This is what lingers below the fateful pillars...
http://www.abload.de/img/completebaseconstructitggf.jpg

Need advice? This is the logic board for the tutorial.
http://www.abload.de/img/closeuptutoriallogicpf7c.jpg

This is what prevents those pillars from falling down... As long as you don't forget to collect the bubbles, that is.
http://www.abload.de/img/closeupbaseconstructioneg7.jpg

Open your ears! The music changes depending on how many lives are left and how far down those pillars are. This is the corresponding "global music logic board".
http://www.abload.de/img/closeupinteractivemusiretw.jpg

3...2...1... This logic board keeps track of your remaining lives and some other cool stuff.
http://www.abload.de/img/closeuplivesystem5cqz.jpg

The Picker. There it is. I didn't take a pic of the "random heart" because I've already written a whole tutorial about it. This one decides where to spawn those precious point bubbles.
http://www.abload.de/img/closeuppickerxgl2.jpg

A Close-Up of the main playing area. Wires, sound effects, wires, mag switches, wires... Basic stuff.
http://www.abload.de/img/closeupplayingarea3hqw.jpg

Don't give up yet! Close-Up of the emergency elevators. Trust me, they're there! It's just hard to spot them under those yellow-greenish spaghetti...
http://www.abload.de/img/closeupemergencyelevat5grj.jpg

Just some random logic stuff.
http://www.abload.de/img/closeuprandomstuffwh30.jpg

Too hard for you? Just hit that button and launch up Easy Mode! Logic board for Easy Mode.
http://www.abload.de/img/closeupeasymode7hi4.jpg

Hope you enjoyed the pics 		2009-10-15 22:25:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Aren't you afraid you'll accidently stick a wire to a block of dissolve and ruin the level lol?

I guess I don't have to say it, but great job, detail mechanics, EVERYTHING. Very nice detail on the pillars, and very smooth cogs in the background too. GREAT concept of the tutorial also! Everything seemed to have hard work and a great job put into it, even the glitched scoreboard. Well done


I only thought of a few things that are imperfect lol.

-You should make the stickers on the rocks smaller to fit in more detail. Its a bad contrast to the rest of the details in the cave and the level.

-You should make the "easy mode" text mouth last. After my young friend read it he immediately skipped the rest of the magic mouths and rushed to press the button, lol

-I really don't think players get a good experience if they try easy mode first. Maybe wright, "Press this for easy mode, if you think regular mode is too hard."

-When you lose, you can still fall on the emergency elevevators and not die...

Bottom line, outstanding survival challenge. Also graet to play with friends! You're making your mark as the best survival challenge maker ever Keep it up.

:star: :star: :star: :star: :star: and heart.		2009-10-17 01:28:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

Wow, thanks for the great feedback!

Did you check out Nuclearfish's survivals? He's also made some outstanding SCs!

Now let's move on to your feedback:

Yes, I will definitely revamp the stickers. Also, at the moment, all of the pillars look identically. I'll add some detail to those as well.

I'm not quite happy with the easy mode text mouth... There's a basic problem: I want new players to know about that button, but I don't want it to break the gameflow. I've installed a cutscene-mouth, but it kinda interrupts the retry-flow. The first version did only mention the button in the tutorial, but, well... People don't like reading a lot and most will skip the intro.
I've had a new idea I'm gonna try out though: I'll set a cam zone which points the player in the direction of the green shiny button at the start. This does not break gameflow, but it should draw the player's attention. Upon coming close to the button, a non-cutscene mouth will tell a few words about that button.

I don't really want to add something like "please play normal mode first" though. Of course, I don't want all of the players skipping the normal mode. But I don't want to tell people what they should do. There's a button. The level tells them that it activates easy mode, which is less challenging, but does also earn the player less points. Those who want a challenge don't press it, those who want an easy go should press it. It's up to them.

As for the elevator problem: When did it occur? I've fixed the bug and uploaded a new version yesterday, right before posting the new behind the scene-pics. Did it happen after the republish? If so, I'm gonna take a look at that.

Thanks for your feedback, very apreciated!		2009-10-17 11:16:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Oh nevermind about the elevators, I see you updated that. Also, no problem about the feedback, I am awesome at picking out faults in others' hard work XD

But one thing, can you tell me how to glitch a scoreboard? I just wanna put one photo on the screen.		2009-10-17 20:57:00

Author:
Incinerator22
Posts: 3251

Oh, I didn't actually glitch it. The only "glitch" is that I've destroyed its base. There's several ways of doing it, the simplest being just to create a huge block of heavy material and smashing it against the base.

As for the text in the background, it's just a thin layer with letter cutouts and background lighting.		2009-10-18 00:37:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

Great level - congratulations on the spotlight 2009-10-18 07:40:00

Author:
Morgana25
Posts: 5983

Thank you very much! I didn't even realize that the new spotlight episode was out until I read your posting. And such nice comments. Really made my day!

And... All of my RL deadlines are finally coming to an end, so I should find some spare time to work on my upcoming level soon!		2009-10-19 06:13:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

cool Keep up the good work!2009-10-19 06:30:00

Author:
Morgana25
Posts: 5983

Amazing level! Why was it so complex to make though? I don't really see what all the logic is doing exactly...2009-10-19 19:21:00

Author:
ApellesJr
Posts: 282

Oh, trust me, you don't want me to start talking about my logic

Well, too late I guess. Ok, so how do I split this explanation up so that anyone else than me (and rtm223, perhaps) could understand it?

First, let's talk about the pillars. Each pillar features a set of basic components:

- 3 Mag Switches (one for point bubble spawning, one for point bubble collecting and one for... Well, I forgot, to be honest. But it does certainly serve some serious purpose!)
- 5 Sound Effects ("Point Bubbles spawned", "Collected!", "Sinking noise", "Bombs appeared" and something else I don't actually remember)
- 1 Proximity Switch (For close-range bomb spawn blocking)
- 3 Emitters (one for point clusters, one for easy mode points and one for bomb clusters)

We've got a total of 8 pillars, so that's (3+5+1+3)*8= 96 wired objects so far.

Then there are 9 emergency elevators. Each one of them is connected to an OR gate:

(left-handed adjacent pillar is down AND easy mode is off) OR (right-handed adjacent pillar is down AND easy mode is off) OR All three lives are lost = elevator will disappear.

(7*3)+(2*2) makes for a total of 25 new wires. Oh, and don't forget the AND gates used for easy mode.

The tutorial logics (when and under which circumstances to launch up which speech bubble) take up another 50 wires or so. Other general sound effects (elevators, lowering life counter etc) add some more wiring (15 or more). The whole randomizer with point bubble and point picker easily uses 32 additional wires (plus some more for advanced background logics... add 20 more).

(By the way, we're at 238 wires right now...)

Well, I think that's basically it. I've added lots of little effects, be it SFX or GFX, that need quite a few wires (lasers, life counter lights, intelligent music etc), but I guess you'll get where the most wires come from.		2009-10-19 20:24:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

I know you're going to hate me but the first thing I did was run through the door, then I saw, "Oh! I should go back to the left and check that speech bubble" - and the door slammed shut so I couldn't do the challenge :[

My second life went pretty good though! I got #9 place. The scoreboard was really cool! I don't know how you did that.

My third and fourth times went pretty bad. My fifth and sixth tries, I collected the bubbles when the platform was just at the bottom - so I died despite collecting the bubbles. Bummer!

My seventh try went pretty good and I got 6th place.

I'm curious how it plays out multiplayer, it seems like the level would be very very easy. Also, I'm curious how much of the high scores depends on luck! My second play through, I scored very high because I stumbled into a x7 chain pretty early in the level. I think it's good to have a luck element in these survival challenges, although lucking into point bubble combos can be frustrating if it doesn't happen when you need it to!

Aesthetically, really polished. Great job! I've played it seven times and I still want to play it more. I'm looking forward to showing this off to my friends!		2009-10-20 01:02:00

Author:
Argon Vile
Posts: 28

wow that looks really hard all that logic and switches how do you do it lol cant wait to play well done!2009-10-22 20:14:00

Author:
lbpholic
Posts: 1304

I know you're going to hate me but the first thing I did was run through the door, then I saw, "Oh! I should go back to the left and check that speech bubble" - and the door slammed shut so I couldn't do the challenge :[

Thanks for pointing that out! I thought I really made a fool-proof door mechanism, but somehow, this obvious timing fault slipped through the testing process. Gonna fix it!


My second life went pretty good though! I got #9 place. The scoreboard was really cool! I don't know how you did that.

Thanks! Quite simple. Crushed the floor of the normal scoreboard, moved the screen to the second thin front layer and worked with material, absence of material and spotlights to get a nice effect.


My third and fourth times went pretty bad. My fifth and sixth tries, I collected the bubbles when the platform was just at the bottom - so I died despite collecting the bubbles. Bummer!

My seventh try went pretty good and I got 6th place.

Never happened to me before, but that's intended. If you want to collect the bubbles on a critical pillar, you'll always risk following it right into the abyss. That's life


I'm curious how it plays out multiplayer, it seems like the level would be very very easy. Also, I'm curious how much of the high scores depends on luck! My second play through, I scored very high because I stumbled into a x7 chain pretty early in the level. I think it's good to have a luck element in these survival challenges, although lucking into point bubble combos can be frustrating if it doesn't happen when you need it to!

It is pretty easy in multiplayer. I've got pages full of concepts and thoughts on how to balance it so that any amount of players will experience a challenging degree of difficulty. It turned out that it is simply not possible without completely re-doing the level. The only supportable solution would be to create an "extendable" playing area, adding up to 4 additional pillars, plus a player number detection device to prevent player parties from cheating. I decided to leave it as it is for the above reasons.

As for the luck element: I decreased the impact of randomness to a minimum wherever I could. For example, I've set up some logic that prevents bombs from spawning right next to the player. However, the point bubbles are supposed to appear randomly and all over the place, and I don't think that there's any way to completely balance point appearance. Apart from that, a certain degree of luck is even capable of increasing the replay value, since even pro-gamers won't be able to achieve the same score over and over again.


Aesthetically, really polished. Great job! I've played it seven times and I still want to play it more. I'm looking forward to showing this off to my friends!

Thanks for your feedback!


wow that looks really hard all that logic and switches how do you do it lol cant wait to play well done!

How I do it? The force is with me, young Jedi!
No, really. It's just putting simple logic gates together and keeping the survey of it all. You can create the most complex links with the most simple elements.

UPDATE:

I HAZ DID SUM MINORE TWEE-KING!
Really. Added some nice stickers and fixed a few minor issues on the tech side. But! And this is where the big update comes: I've recorded a nice video for all those who want to get a sneak preview on what the level is about. Updated the level description as well.

Here it is, enjoy!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHQHR6Uwr-8

Direct Link: Bubble Caves (MmSC Survival Challenge) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHQHR6Uwr-8)		2009-10-26 14:51:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223

I just managed to play this and I was very glad I did!
The visuals were top notch and I loved the idea of the survival challenge, very well thought out and implemented.
I played it with my brother and that made it even more frantic! Especially as my brother kept falling down, lol.
Im not really a good critic, but this is one of the best survival challenges i've played, even better then some of the story ones.
Overall :star::star::star::star::star: and a heart. 		2009-10-28 11:59:00

Author:
AgentBanana
Posts: 511

Thanks for the great feedback!
Little teasing message for anyone who likes my survivals: A new one is in the making! I worked on a full-length portal-based puzzler so far, but somehow, I completely lost motivation. Instead, I came up with an original new SC concept. Be prepared! I won't get it ready for halloween, which is a shame because it will take place in a rather creepy setting. Anyways, just wanted to let you know 		2009-10-29 23:48:00

Author:
Treas
Posts: 223


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