Archive: 43 posts

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I've already put this in my creating guide but tonight I have realised the kind of power that good score bubble distribution holds (as long as the level is good obviously). I've just gone through the OH NO!!! series and gotten top score on the 2nd and 3rd levels (I already had it on the first). The second level it took me a while... I actually managed to get the top score on the 3rd level first time...but there's no doubt if I had failed I would have kept going back until I got it. Now this probably says more about me than it does about score bubbles but don't think there's any denying how much of a positive effect they can have when it comes to replay value. I played 'Scary Factory...' by Geosautus last night and it got me thinking, overall that level is probably better than any of the levels in the OH NO!!! series, yet there's no way I'd think to play it over and over again like I do with them. Some levels are just built in such a way that you can keep going back and it's always fun. Leads to the question, what other levels are similarly built to make you want them play again and again and get that top score? (Survival not included! )

2009-09-14 00:45:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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Interesting thread. I've personally thought about it a bit differently - it's creating the same feeling you get when munching dots in Pacman or going for a high score in Donkey Kong - score bubbles give you a constant goal to reach, and give you a feeling that you're progressing. Whether its point bubbles or just keeping a score going up, it keeps the energy going and adds more to the level than simply following a story. Once you've done a story, you've DONE it. It may be great and intriguing, but who goes back and reads a book many times? Somehow creating constant action and goals beyond the story will create replay value.

2009-09-14 00:54:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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I know what you mean man. In fact that was what my main aim was in my latest level, I really wanted people to come back and get a high score, and it's worked! This level has been much more successful than my others. In my earlier levels I just plonked point bubbles down in the players path. Now I hang bubbles on string, make switch triggers and it's really makes the level much funner. Even if you have to work just a little bit more for the point bubbles, it's still better than nothing.

2009-09-14 00:55:00 Author: olit123 Posts: 1341

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Well Jaeyden's levels would be the obvious answer here. Tye Dye and Stardust! being stand outs. CCubbage has Destiny and Vertigo that are pretty much for the purpose of replaying until you get the top score. Mother Misty also has a couple of levels (forgotten the names) that have a similar premise. If you mean a level that on first play is one thing, but on repeat plays almost takes on an entirely new guise, then I have no idea!

2009-09-14 00:55:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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Here is the heart and soul of all game development. In games this sort of planning is what goes into hoping to make a game people will BUY rather than RENT. There are plenty of levels out there that I love playing tons of times over, even if they aren't godly well detailed. There are plenty of levels that take my breath away, but then don't necessarily have replay value... it's a tricky thing.

2009-09-14 00:58:00 Author: Foofles Posts: 2278

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Here is the heart and soul of all game development. In games this sort of planning is what goes into hoping to make a game people will BUY rather than RENT. There are plenty of levels out there that I love playing tons of times over, even if they aren't godly well detailed. There are plenty of levels that take my breath away, but then don't necessarily have replay value... it's a tricky thing. You know, it's kind of funny - "Too Human" was panned critically and got terrible reviews... but for some reason I COULDN'T PUT IT DOWN! I must have played the entire game 3 times beginning to end because flying through the air attacking in every direction and wiping out several hundred bad dudes at once was so mesmerising... But it's not really "point bubbles" per-sey. It's keeping the player excited throughout the experience and giving them goals. Awesome stuff. (also, Jaeyden's "Star Struck 3" falls under the same category so he's been doing it for a while).

2009-09-14 01:01:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Yup.. points are just one of the many tools you can use. Incentive to boost your score is the age old method. I think the biggest way to encourage people to play your level more than once is not making it frustrating. Some levels seem intended to be "Difficult" but are more frustrating because of poor design rather than pushing your abilities to the limit. People end up beating these levels just thinking "Gee, I spent half an hour in this thing already I might as well finish it." and never go back again. Or at least that's how I go. I know I am guilty of having a few cheap by poor design moments in my levels, and I should really revisit all of them to encourage people to finish... I work hard on my designs and want people to see it all!

2009-09-14 01:06:00 Author: Foofles Posts: 2278

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Yep. Take snakes on a dame: simple gameplay, not really challenging, but just try and string all the combos together, it's **** near impossible (I'm still trying). To my mind the keys to good combos are: string them out so it's clear they are there make them very hard, but not quite impossible to get every point Place them around hazards and fiddley areas make them in multiples of 5, so missing one point drops you multiplier This way you'll be in the situation where even the top players are going to struggle to get all the points available, giving even more replay value. Conversely in the "OH NO!" series, the challenge is not dying, rather than getting all the combos. As a side note, I'm not so keen on jaeydens levels. Don't get me wrong, I do respect how good they are, I just don't find them compelling enough in themselves. The level has to be compelling enough to bring me back and then have the points as incentive to play more than twice. But that is just me.

2009-09-14 01:20:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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This way you'll be in the situation where even the top players are going to struggle to get all the points available, giving even more replay value. Conversely in the "OH NO!" series, the challenge is not dying, rather than getting all the combos. If you want the top score it's definitely both haha. I think I died twice in the second one, and once in the 3rd (although I did miss a secret area in the 3rd!) So there's definitely slight room to be beaten As a side note, I'm not so keen on jaeydens levels. Don't get me wrong, I do respect how good they are, I just don't find them compelling enough in themselves. The level has to be compelling enough to bring me back and then have the points as incentive to play more than twice. But that is just me. I have to agree with this too. No doubt they're fantastic levels, they just aren't really my kind of thing. I feel like there has to be more than just free roaming and score bubbles to make me come back. I actually prefer it if there's a designated route in a 'top score challenging' level, it feels fairer and like everyone is on the same page and it truly is who can get the bubbles that are laid out in the best way gets the top spot. But as Rtm said, that's pretty much personal preference and what as a player gets me coming back for more.

2009-09-14 01:35:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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Yup, I have played your Calamity Construction level so many times just because it was addicting when trying to get top score. As previously mentioned Snakes on a Dame also is a great example of this. I also think Basilisk Bog by mrsupercomputer is another great example. Btw I love it when authors put the score bubbles in a triangle shape, it makes it that much more fun to collect!

2009-09-14 01:39:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger Posts: 787

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I must say that the way score bubbles are placed in levels isn't thought through that much. Where the bubbles are pretty much comes down to where they fit and look good. I think having them in bunches of 3's does help though. Also having them structured and not just piles of them everywhere seems to help with me too. It just feels a bit more like it's down to judgement and skill when they're placed well. There's a few secret areas in FT2 but other than that their placement has been pretty straight forward. You can tell it's simple by how rounded and how similar/the same the top scores are on my levels. My new one is a little different as I've thought about combos in a few areas. But still, it's nothing compared to how rtm's are laid out in his level or how they work in OH NO!!! series. I'd still definitely class it as an afterthought.

2009-09-14 01:48:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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Alright, don't kill me, but I'm going to do a shameless plug for my (almost) daily blog here: w00t blog! (http://www.lbpcentral.com/forums/blog.php?b=601) I talked about this in the blog post I linked to (I talk about lots of other things so read mah blog!). Right, now that that's out of the way, great thread. I totally agree score bubbles are extremely important. Whether it's providing a reward for the player after a particularly challenging part, or placing points in perfect combo-making order, they can have a huge effect on the level. I'm not going to repeat everything I said in my blog post, but I feel it's very important to spend some time putting down your score bubbles instead of just plopping them around where they look nice. Sometimes you don't even need combo-inducing bubbles to make them increase your level replayability. A single bubble every bit in some levels will do the trick even. It totally depends on the level. But however you feel they should be placed, make sure it adds to the experience and isn't out of place. When you're placing a point bubble, think about why you're placing it in that spot, how the player will react to it, and how it adds to the experience.

2009-09-14 02:05:00 Author: hilightnotes Posts: 1230

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If you want the top score it's definitely both haha. Oh actually I'm gonna take that back in the case of the first three. In the forth one it is very much a case of Find all the secrets Don't die The last score I posted on there I died at least three times, but collected every bubble (unless there is uber-secret - I have a felling CCB hinted at there being uber secrets in all of those levels that he doesn't think anyone has found, although that may have been someone else) I think a good estimate of how tricky the combos are to get is if you, as creator, struggle to get every point in the combo - yet the combo is still plainly visible for everyone and they can get at least some of it, or get two combos out of it.

2009-09-14 02:10:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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What you say is probably true. Bubble combo DO help replay value. If you never tried it, try my level called Crazy Train. I have what I call a "bubble mode". The level will change itself so all the bubble can be grabbed in ONE huge combo. Seriously, I think it's my "bubble mode" that gave this level 20k+ plays. .

2009-09-14 02:18:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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It's always fun to collect stuff! I also use the sense that they help detail where to go. Just like Bananas in Donkey Kong Country or rings in Sonic.

2009-09-14 02:23:00 Author: Foofles Posts: 2278

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I haven't really put much focus on including score bubbles in my levels. I've always felt that they drain thermo better spent on objects and scenery. I left them out of Gothic Reverie altogether but got criticised for it, so I decided to conform to convention and put a few bubbles into Gothic Reverie 2. However, they feel like a needless extra thrown in as an afterthought, and I've thought about removing them altogether since this level was never intended to be a "who can get the best score?" competition. I dunno what's best really.

2009-09-14 09:58:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Bubbles are always the last thing i put in, and i usually put them in at the end of sections as a little reward or anywhere that feels like it could do with a little bit more for the player to do, so for me they're a great way to just add a little more playability, rather than be the focus of a level. I've rarely think about combo-chaining, and i should a bit more. Snakes on a Dame is the best recent example i can think of as i played it pre and post the bubble chains Wex put in and it made a huge difference. It probably works best on the shorter levels. Getting to the end of a huge level and then missing that one combo that would get you on the high score table is probably gonna end up a frustration more than anything else.

2009-09-14 11:09:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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The whole bubble collecting thing would of course be much more fun if you'd see your friends scores at the end and not the 6 other randoms that also scored 5392 points. Yes, I know you can see your friends scores before you start the level if you scroll through info box, but that's not quite the same as immediately seeing how many points your friends got at the end of the level. That would most likely give you more of an incentive to restart and try again.

2009-09-14 11:20:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Actually. it was rtms subtereanean setbacks level was what made me realy sit up and take notice of the difference score bubbles can make to a level. previously i would just generally scatter them about haphazardly after I made the level. after playing rtms effort I really saw what condidered placement can do. Even if it doesn't get the player to replay, it adds to the overal enjoyment of a level when you are pushing yourself to go a little fasster than is comfortable just so you can keep your combo going. However it does depend on the level. I think it worked well with Snakes on a Dame as it was such a simple plaformer, no story just run and get through the obstacles. It might seem more out of place on some more heavily scripted levels or brainbusting puzzle levels. One things for sure though, I will be giving a lot more thought about bubbles in my next levels.

2009-09-14 11:22:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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Combos are nice, but their not fun when point bubbles are just scattered in a line and you have to run for them >.< like people have already mentioned in this thread, the score bubble combos should be easily understandable but hard to obtain. This adds in the "Awwww! i could of done better!" feeling in the level. I only compete for the top scores if only 100 or less people have played it I'm not gonna compete with 20+ players tied for 1st place I think some other would feel the same about this, they would think to themselves "Why would i try and get a high score when 5 people already got the highest you can get?" To combat this I'm trying to experiment with a randomizer point bubble technique. When you start the level a randomizer would start and a random number of point bubbles would appear through out the level. Not only does this challenge the players skills, but it also tests their patience and luck. I don't know if it'll be successful or not, but it's an idea i wanna try out for my current run'gun level. I'm not a score bubble freak though... and I don't really replay a level unless it gives me something new (like a challenge sticker) or if there is a really cool object I want to collect in it. I do strive for points in multiplayer though. In LBP you are supposed to work as a team and help each other out, but at the same time you're also competing against one another. Like wexfordian mentioned has mentioned above me it's pretty different when comparing a score right after you finished a level and when you're just comparing your score on the score board. I like shouting "haha i win! In your face!" to my friends when i see that little trophy cup come up

2009-09-14 11:25:00 Author: snowyjoe Posts: 509

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I only compete for the top scores if only 100 or less people have played it I'm not gonna compete with 20+ players tied for 1st place Actually, what you describe is is exactly why combo placement is key. If you check back to my previous post with the advice I wrote on combo placement, you can use those techniques to get wild variance in the final scores. Placing the combos so that getting every single point in the combo is nearly impossible, then taking into account multipliers and slight variations in path through the level, you can get 50,000 plays or more and still have large gaps between the leaders. Don't believe me? Go look at the # of plays and the highscores for snakes on a dame That's not variance due to death - it's an easilly aceable (sp?) level. What you are seeing is combo variance. If I miss a single bubble on the emitter platforms, thats 110 pts gone, each. If I managed to get all of them I would bump my 11x combo to a 12x combo and gain another few hundred points.

2009-09-14 11:37:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Go look at the # of plays and the highscores for snakes on a dame Ah, I see what you mean. I didn't really pay attention to Snakes on a Dame because of the huge number of plays >.< It just turned me off the high score somehow. I think it was because of the huge amount of competition involved. Although there are only a handful of people that fight for the top scores... the numbers are still pretty overwhelming >.< Then again, I am being a bit baist because Snakes on a Dame isn't my kind of level.

2009-09-14 11:41:00 Author: snowyjoe Posts: 509

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Gotta say, I was slightly annoyed that someone out there tagged one of my levels as a "Points-Fest" when there were no score bubbles at all in it. "Rubbish" and "Lousy" I can accept, but "Points-Fest"? Go figure.

2009-09-14 11:47:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Gotta say, I was slightly annoyed that someone out there tagged one of my levels as a "Points-Fest" Sorry... that might of been me when I was new to LBP and didn't know there was a "skip" button on the tag window I used to give levels random tags when I couldn't find the tags i wanted (not rubbish or frustrating, just random stuff like toys and stuff )

2009-09-14 11:48:00 Author: snowyjoe Posts: 509

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Snakes on a Dame isn't my kind of level either, but I think it's a great example of how the "challenge" of a level doesn't have to be limited to "how hard are the obstacles". If you don't go for the combos, you've got a nice easy level, if you do go for the combos, the margins between "most of the bubbles", "all of the bubbles" and "death" are very, very tight. Really pushing yourself to limit and knowing that you only ever have one shot at a combo is a perfect example of "optional challenge", and unlike the challenge of normal hazards, there is more than just a pass / fail in terms of your success, so you can push for improvement, which is where the replay value comes from. Obviously not everyone is going to "opt-in" for that challenge, or even appreciate that it's there, but I think a lot of people will. Yes, I am aware that I may have thought about bubbles a little to much

2009-09-14 11:56:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Sorry... that might of been me when I was new to LBP and didn't know there was a "skip" button on the tag window I used to give levels random tags when I couldn't find the tags i wanted (not rubbish or frustrating, just random stuff like toys and stuff ) YOU DID WHAT?! WHY, YOU LITTLE... I'M GONNA... Ah, forget it. I'm sure we've all done that from time to time. Anyway, thanks for clearing up that mystery for me. Perhaps now I can sleep soundly in my bed, free from the terrible nightmares that have tormented me for the last few months.

2009-09-14 12:11:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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I fail to see the point, but I understand it. I never cared about bubbles, and I never cared about high scores. I liked to play a level because it mesmerizes me visually or gameplay wise. In fact I didn't even like survival challenges. But I know I can play IceMaiden levels forever, being in front of the TV with eys of a child. Or just when I see stuff that didn't think possible in the game. This is the real magic of LBP in my opinion. I don't care to run through the level at Mach 3, because I know that every piece of level costed the author insane amounts of time, so I want to take the time whenever I play the level...and the more I play it the slower I play it. Bubbles are not my cake, just to post an opposite opinion.

2009-09-14 12:44:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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I never cared about bubbles, and I never cared about high scores. I liked to play a level because it mesmerizes me visually or gameplay wise. In fact I didn't even like survival challenges. But I know I can play IceMaiden levels forever, being in front of the TV with eys of a child. Or just when I see stuff that didn't think possible in the game. This is the real magic of LBP in my opinion. I don't care to run through the level at Mach 3, because I know that every piece of level costed the author insane amounts of time, so I want to take the time whenever I play the level...and the more I play it the slower I play it. I think exactly the same! Never really cared about highscore Bubbles for me are just a nice way to guide the player through the level and it just gives a little feel of gaining something... but that's all

2009-09-14 13:23:00 Author: dajdaj03 Posts: 1486

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To combat this I'm trying to experiment with a randomizer point bubble technique. When you start the level a randomizer would start and a random number of point bubbles would appear through out the level. Not only does this challenge the players skills, but it also tests their patience and luck. I don't know if it'll be successful or not, but it's an idea i wanna try out for my current run'gun level. IMHO, this sounds like a bad idea. If you don't go full out craps shoot, then unskilled players who might appreciate the luck factor still won't appear on top, and skilled players will want to rely on skill, not luck, to get the high score. By the way, very interesting thread. I'm not one to go for points myself, but this has given me some insight to make my levels appeal to those who do. Thanks!

2009-09-14 13:57:00 Author: Rogar Posts: 2284

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Strategic combo chains and challenge, races, or point deficits with infinite lives (going from 1 mil down 5% each death), or adrenaline based risk like Ccubb's last level is definitely the way to keep them coming back. I always wanted to slather my level with tastefully placed point combos, but could never ever leave myself enough thermometer to do it. Whenever I did get generous with points, I'd end up having one of those level-overheated-mid-play-and-paintinator-won't-fire-or-player-respawns-and-falls-through-floor after making a small change post-publish... and then kick myself trying to remove point bubbles for the sake of the thermo, but already having high scores set that would otherwise be unbeatable or impossible to approach. I ended up having to delete and republish alot of my older levels because of this, and although it might be open for abuse, I wish there was reasonable options for resetting scoreboards. There's a level called Race For Sparta that's the epitome of replay value for me and deboerdave... we spent days trying to get #1 or 2 on two player, then the same by ourselves... the score's impossible to get again now because he changed up the end of the level. Some of my levels may suffer from a lack of replay value since most of the space was given up for play time and physical constructions, but I hope that the first time through would feel like a great experience that you'll come back to sometime down the line if only to refresh your memory.

2009-09-14 14:22:00 Author: Unknown User

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By the way, very interesting thread. I'm not one to go for points myself, but this has given me some insight to make my levels appeal to those who do. Thanks! Yes, indeed. That is something that a creator should consider even if he's not directly interested.

2009-09-14 14:22:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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You may even find yourself appreciating other peoples' bubbles more. That's what happened to me

2009-09-14 14:41:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Keep in mind also that many levels are not designed for replay... nor should they be. Some experiences are like reading a book - you've built a fantastic story, taken the player through it.... and trying to insert an "arcade feel" into it by throwing point bubbles everywhere may diminish the appeal of the level. To me, Ungreth's levels fall under this category. In Wexfordian's Snakes on a Dame the points were totally appropriate - this is a level that has virtually no story, and has fairly simple gameplay. Instead of walking slowly through the level and taking each jump carefully, introducing the point bubbles forces them to go as fast as they can and perform jumps quickly without thinking. This makes it a MUCH more exciting level. If you take a great flowing story where you need to stop, look at the scenery, and take in the plot - throwing a bunch of point bubble combos everywhere is going to lessen the experience instead of enhancing it.

2009-09-14 14:42:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Yeah, Ccubb... points can be an eyesore, a disctracting sound, or just really out of context.

2009-09-14 14:45:00 Author: Unknown User

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Yeah, Ccubb... points can be an eyesore, a disctracting sound, or just really out of context. Definately! I've been working on Splat Invaders III lately, and each area has a different scoring system. You've got the Splat areas, of course - where getting a lot of points requires shooting a bunch of invaders and picking up as many together as possible from the ground, a pacman area where combos consist of keeping the chain going as long as possible in a maze, and also saving cities from enemy attack - where you get points for each city saved when exiting the area. In Tiger Woods, all the points collect in a bin at the end of the level to keep the points out of general play, but also allow a fun point collection on the way out of the level. In a Mario paint level I played they give you points for painting certain areas of the canvas, but they do it off screen with a brain so you don't see points appearing. In Wexfordians "Mind of a H4Hr" he's got the pimple popping part where you can pop as many pimples as you can while staying out of the way of the bubbles and collecting them at the end (which is how I got the high score - pimple popping expertise!) So, there are many ways to create point bubble combos and add a scoring system without necessarily having points sitting all over the place. You just need to find the best way to handle it in your level. (I was always surprised that people who have you find secrets in their levels don't throw a bunch of points at the end for each secret you find to encourage people to try again for more secrets to raise their score)

2009-09-14 14:59:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Keep in mind also that many levels are not designed for replay... nor should they be. Some experiences are like reading a book - you've built a fantastic story, taken the player through it.... and trying to insert an "arcade feel" into it by throwing point bubbles everywhere may diminish the appeal of the level. To me, Ungreth's levels fall under this category. In Wexfordian's Snakes on a Dame the points were totally appropriate - this is a level that has virtually no story, and has fairly simple gameplay. Instead of walking slowly through the level and taking each jump carefully, introducing the point bubbles forces them to go as fast as they can and perform jumps quickly without thinking. This makes it a MUCH more exciting level. If you take a great flowing story where you need to stop, look at the scenery, and take in the plot - throwing a bunch of point bubble combos everywhere is going to lessen the experience instead of enhancing it. Thanks, I feel much reassured now. I'm probably not going to use point bubbles at all in my current project since it would kinda ruin the atmostphere, but if it gets to the playtesting stage and people start to feed back that they want bubbles, I'm gonna feel pressured to please the crowd. It's a tough one.

2009-09-14 15:09:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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I'm trying to think what made me want to get the top scores on all OH NO!!! levels. I think it comes down to a number of reasons. The placement is good. But it's not all down to the placement in these levels, as rtm said earlier, it's also down to not dying. The combos aren't actually that difficult to get (I don't think I missed one at any point when going for top score). It's more about finding the bubbles and not dying. There's also a good point about the arcade feel. It's like flash games where you just sit there and play them over and over again and just can't seem to pull yourself a way. 'One more go and then I'm going to bed...OMG only ten points away...alright, last go and then I really am going....OMG that was so close...I can do it this time...(etc)'. They can't be slow or long levels either, it's got to be about 'hop hop swing hop hop'. Even OH NO!!! is pushing it in this respect as they're pretty long levels. On the seconn level, l I had the top score when I got to the boss...jumped on the last brain of the boss, it disappeared and I fell down into a gas pit, losing 5% and losing the top score...gutted! Getting near the end and knowing you can do it is so nerve racking, when I finally managed it I was so tense afterwards. It's ridiculous and brilliant that a game can actually do that to you. In regards to what Ninja said, I agree they can definitely detract from the look of a level in certain cicrumstances. My new one for example, I wasn't 100% sure if they looked okay in it, but then I thought I've never been a fan of playing through a level with no bubbles at all so decided to keep them. I dunno, I just don't like the feeling of getting to the scoreboard and it coming up 0.

2009-09-14 15:19:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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I think you're more likely to try for the high score if you particularly love the level. Also, yep, if a level has a more urgent arcade feel it suits going for combos the best. I was going for the Top 10 scoretable on Snakes, and the level was JUST about short enough for re-starting mid-level not to become tedious. Much longer and i just wouldn't have bothered. Having said all that, i don't miss bubbles in levels that don't need them.

2009-09-14 15:40:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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@Ninja Don't worry about bubbles, your levels are wonderful experiences for multiple time. Still your False Idol III has the best view I've ever seen in LBP, when you get out of the cave over the volcano. I prefer adding a race than placing bubbles if I want people to rush through the level.

2009-09-14 15:44:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112

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there is a level called "Treetop Escape" escape that has great replay value. It has some great combo sections in it and the intensity is kept up by it being challenging and plenty of places to die if you lose your focus (not frustrating, just a small lapse may cost you). I think that is what is good on the oh no the pricess series is that pretty much every obsticle has oppertunity of death. That is one aspect that keeps up intensity, no point having obsticles if you cant die. It doesnt stimulate the same emotions if you can just "go for it" with no penalty. The only draw back on Treetop Escape was the Race section. I think a race section is good, and usually will make it so your level cant really have ties. But in treetop escape race section is great but i think that the Clock time is set to high. As i noticed it gave too much weight to the score. I had noticed when i got a really good race time and bad combo run it out weighed the plays when i got a good combo run and not so good race time. So i would like to point that out to creaters when putting in races to put a lot of thought into how much time is alotted for the race. Keeping the race time balanced with the combos values will keep it more exciting as you feel you have to do good on everypart instead of just particular parts.

2009-09-14 16:20:00 Author: deboerdave Posts: 384

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there is a level called "Treetop Escape" escape that has great replay value. It has some great combo sections in it and the intensity is kept up by it being challenging and plenty of places to die if you lose your focus (not frustrating, just a small lapse may cost you). I think that is what is good on the oh no the pricess series is that pretty much every obsticle has oppertunity of death. That is one aspect that keeps up intensity, no point having obsticles if you cant die. It doesnt stimulate the same emotions if you can just "go for it" with no penalty. The only draw back on Treetop Escape was the Race section. I think a race section is good, and usually will make it so your level cant really have ties. But in treetop escape race section is great but i think that the Clock time is set to high. As i noticed it gave too much weight to the score. I had noticed when i got a really good race time and bad combo run it out weighed the plays when i got a good combo run and not so good race time. So i would like to point that out to creaters when putting in races to put a lot of thought into how much time is alotted for the race. Keeping the race time balanced with the combos values will keep it more exciting as you feel you have to do good on everypart instead of just particular parts. Actually, to add a bit to that thought - it can also be a downside if you don't create separate combos. So.... it may not be a good thing if missing one combo messes up the points for the ENTIRE level. If people see the high scores and they think it's POSSIBLE to get into the top 10, they may give it a try. But if they have to practice 100 times and pull of the entire level perfectly to get in the top 10, I just can't see many people sticking to it. The truth is, very few players put the time into a level to get really good at it. I know this because I'm sitting in the top 10 of soooo many levels that have 10,000+ plays - I know I'm not THAT good. I just don't think too many players put the time in. So, yes - balancing out the point system is a good thing.

2009-09-14 17:19:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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A few other levels that I've enjoyed battling out for first place: Plat-former by Cadaverwalking Ninja Test: Jonin Rank by Ixodis Ninja Test: Chunin Rank by Ixodis (not as good as the first, but still pretty decent)

2009-09-14 17:42:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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But once you get first place... and someone beats your score would you come back to the level to beat that person again?

2009-09-14 22:33:00 Author: snowyjoe Posts: 509

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