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The Meaning of "Creativity"

Archive: 33 posts

I've been meaning to make this thread for a little while, I think it could be a very interesting discussion and I saw the following quote in another thread, which I didn't want to derail, so I thought this was a perfect jumping point:


Playing Guitar - Creative
Playing Keyboard - Creative
Making LBP levels - Creative
Photography Course - Creative
Music Technology Course - Creative
Product Design Course - Creative
Media Studies Course - Creative

(sorry leather-monkey, I'm not picking on you I swear and I'm sure you are a very creative person, it's just that quote was too convenient to miss )

I put it to you that you don't actually have to be creative or artistic in any way to do any of those things. Yes I know they all involve creating things, but so does laying bricks - most of you wouldn't consider the average bricklayer as an artist, would you?

All artistic fields are (to some extent) technical fields as well and there is a massive difference between learning techniques and actually being creative with them.

As an example: I've got (or used to have) decent technical skill with a guitar, but I have never produced anything original with it. Being able to play an instrument has nothing to do with artistry or creativity. Being able to play it creatively does (well duh!). So why is that these fields are considered creative, where other fields, with equal scope for originality and creativity are not?

I think music is a great example, as it is a very technical field, dictated by mathematical rules. Similarly photography is very technical. Both are considered creative, rather than technical fields. My belief is that this is because the end result can be judged on aesthetics.

But Why? why should the concept of creativity be limited to aesthetics? This appears to be the general viewpoint of the world and it just seems so very, very blinkered to me. (actually I have my theories as to why, but I'm gonna hold them back for a bit, see what other people come up with)

Discuss


Bricklaying can indeed be an artistic and creative field, I just chose it as an example that most people would not view in that way. My appologies to the LBPC bricklaying community for any disrespect that may have been perceived 		2009-09-07 13:05:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

I agree - you can do just about ANYTHING creatively. You can even walk down the street creatively (just watch Monty Python's Ministry of Silly Walks sketch).

My mother and father are both concert-quality pianists. My mother plays things EXACTLY as she was taught, and never wrote music. My father created his own style of playing and enhances music that he knows.

Even creating in LittleBigPlanet - some think up new ideas, others copy them because they don't have the creativity to come up with original ideas on their own, but they do have the technical knowledge to build.		2009-09-07 13:13:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

I think any renovator worth his salt is as creative a person as you're likely to find. I've put in my fair share of hours renovating, and some of these guys who've been doing it for years, these huge-handed filthy hulk-men, are easily as creative (and often moreso) as your average capuccino-sipping screenwriter at the corner coffeeshop. I was never a creative reno man because I never knew what the hell I was doing. These guys knew their stuff - they could glance at a wall and know the quality of the men who raised it.

Whether you're painting a canvas or a house, it's what you put into it. And I've seen more works of art that have made my eyes roll than I care to count.		2009-09-07 13:18:00

Author:
Teebonesy
Posts: 1937

We could just use a different words.

List of words that are a good alternative to creative, which is now an umbrella term for everything new, different:

-Original = Coming up with something no one else has thought of
-Imaginative = Visualising something quite different to how you see it in the real world
-Inventive = How to make things work.
-Resourceful = How to deal with a problem that comes from the outside.
-Ingenious = Mixture of inventiveness, resourcefulness and cleverness.

/closes dictionary		2009-09-07 13:35:00

Author:
Syroc
Posts: 3193

Awesome examples there Ccubbage and Teebonesy. This is exactly the kind of thing I'm thinking about.

Thanks Syroc, I asusme this is an exerpt from The LBPC Approved Vocabulary Guide that you are writing? The thing is I think creative should be an umbrella term for things that are new and different, whereas it seems to be more an umbrella term for anything aesthetically pleasing, regardless of originality (ok not quite regardless, but it seems to take a back seat a lot of the time). Of course this is a semantic debate, hence the title, I'm just interested in everyone's take on it.		2009-09-07 14:18:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

I'm famous!

I suppose what I was saying is that they are all hands-on, cultural things, that in my mind involve a lot of creativity and would be approached with an artistic mind.

But now i'm having trouble of thinking up anything that doesn't involve some type of creativity. You've convinced me into thinking that everything/everyone has some elements of creativity.

Talking of brick-layers, my Dad worked with a female bricklayer who won an award for he outstanding brick laying skills. 		2009-09-07 14:42:00

Author:
Leather-Monkey
Posts: 2266

"Everything that has been created is no longer creative. Creativity thrives in the unfinished."

- Rhyfelwr, Sept 2009.

A philosophical take on my favourite subject.		2009-09-07 23:39:00

Author:
Rhyfelwr
Posts: 606

We could just use a different words.

List of words that are a good alternative to creative, which is now an umbrella term for everything new, different:

-Original = Coming up with something no one else has thought of
-Imaginative = Visualising something quite different to how you see it in the real world
-Inventive = How to make things work.
-Resourceful = How to deal with a problem that comes from the outside.
-Ingenious = Mixture of inventiveness, resourcefulness and cleverness.

/closes dictionary

And what's the definition of creativity over there?

To me being creative is inevitably a mixture of "imagination" and "execution" so I could see it as partly "imaginative", partly "inventive". The only thing that is different between someone Ingenious and someone creative is that the creative one actually distinguished itself aesthetically while the the Ingenious guy is having a more intelligent/efficient way.

I think it's a terrible word I guess. Way overused these days because it's ala mode to be "creative". It's almost as lame as "innovation" that is throw in every single PR and since a couple of year the word "green".

Those words are so overused and diluted that people don't even really know what they mean anymore. lol

.		2009-09-08 01:08:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

Words are confusing, langauge is confusing... and spelling is hard..... let's all just stop talking and start sending brain waves to each other.

But back on topic, when we create are we actually making something completely new, or are we just combining elements that are already present in this world?

When creating a song, you're using sounds and combining them together to form a unique pattern that sounds good!

Same with LBP. You have sponges, metal, cardboard and you combine them altogether to create awersome levels!

I think creativity isn't making something completely new or something that stands out from the crowd, but creativity is a way of putting elements together in such a way so we can enjoy it.		2009-09-08 05:24:00

Author:
snowyjoe
Posts: 509

Creativity means being one of a kind. Doing something to set yourself, or your work of art, apart.

That's why I say Tool is the most creative band ever. There really is nothing else that sounds like them.		2009-09-08 05:26:00

Author:
qrtda235566
Posts: 3664

@Rhyfelwr: Not entirely sure that's helpful, but it did make me chuckle

@snowyjoe: yes spelling is hard, but language and semantics are fascinating - especially the subtleties and nuances of meaning that we, as individuals, project upon words.


when we create are we actually making something completely new, or are we just combining elements that are already present in this world? The latter. But some people are more creative than others in the way they do so.


I think creativity isn't making something completely new or something that stands out from the crowd, but creativity is a way of putting elements together in such a way so we can enjoy it. This is where I think the whole thing comes from. Creativity is only applied to aesthetic fields because everyone can appreciate them on some level. But if we consider creativity on aesthetics, as judged by the masses (what other way is there to judge something subjective), then 50 cent is surely one of the more creative musicians of recent times :s Take that Tool!

@Awesomemans: My interpretation of the word is pretty much the same as yours

@Ranger, I think you are right, the word has pretty much lost all meaning because of overuse. Or maybe it has just changed in meaning due to a change in useage? Maybe it is now genuinely synonymous with aesthetically pleasing?		2009-09-08 09:44:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

This is where I think the whole thing comes from. Creativity is only applied to aesthetic fields because everyone can appreciate them on some level.



Love it!

If chemistry was more about burning things with acid rather than remembering chemical formals, then it might be considered creative one day too!		2009-09-08 11:20:00

Author:
snowyjoe
Posts: 509

I'd argue that leading edge research in most scientific fields requires quite a creative mind. You have to think in new, innovative and creative ways to achieve something that no-one has ever done before. But it's not as pretty as strumming a few chords and making a pop song, so it doesn't count

You should see how many times the word "creative" comes up in the definition of the requirements for achieving the highest grade of an MEng (Master of Engineering) Degree. Probably even more so for a PhD in Engineering or an EngD.


I am well aware of how much I'm in the minority here, don't worry 		2009-09-08 11:40:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Well the term 'creative thinking' can be applied to just about anything. Generally the 'arts' (or any field thats anti-procedure) require this on a fairly consistent basis so that's probably why there's such a heavy association with the word.2009-09-08 12:05:00

Author:
julesyjules
Posts: 1156

This sort of reminds me of a thing my school does on Friday Afternoons (chosen alongside Army, Navy, RAF, etc.), called Leadership. The idea of it is to form you into someone who can organise a team and lead effectively, part of which is creativity - one example being a task list we were set for one afternoon.

Effectively, it was a list of tasks...dur. Like, a photo of you with today's newspaper, etc. At one point during the afternoon, each group was given a padlock and told to unlock it for many bonus points. Most people tried futilely with a paperclip, some gave up...but I exercised my creativity, took it to the DT department and asked the tech there if he could smash it open. Job done

So the example here is that creativity is doing something NEW with something OLD or using something in a NEW way...you get the gist?		2009-09-08 18:50:00

Author:
dawesbr
Posts: 3280

The meaning of creativity?

The ability to transcend traditional ideas, rules, patterns, relationships, or the like, and to create meaningful new ideas, forms, methods, interpretations, etc.; originality, progressiveness, or imagination.

Man, if we had gone to Websters a few days ago there would be a lot less typing.		2009-09-08 19:12:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

Well, I'm going to pop in and say that even those things that seem to be the antithesis of creativity can in fact be quite creative in their own regard.

Take mathematics for example (I know, predictable, right?). Most people consider mathematics to entail sticking to rigid, clearly defined rules, no? In many cases, this is quite truthful. The point I'm trying to make is that the creation of said rules took an awful lot of creativity when they were first considered. As a math major, I've had to take a variety of proof writing and logic based classes. Some of the stuff that I've seen in various proofs of elementary logic principles use incredibly creative methods.

That may seem pretty convoluted in the way that I've described it, but take it from me that certain mathematical revelations took an incredibly creative approach. I suppose then we can take Rhy's quote and say that once it has been done, it's no longer creative, but it's still fascinating that someone had creatively considered it before anyone else.

I hope that made any sense at all.

[That may not have been entirely what you wanted to discuss, but hey...]		2009-09-08 19:29:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338

I generally have maths firmly in my mind when I consider this topic. Especially applied mathematics used for problem solving - any kind of abstraction requires a lot of creativity, so it fits perfectly.


Jules: Yes, this is essentially my point, anything can be creative, but most traditional "arts" are considered creative by default, regardless of the actual creativity involved. CCubbage's mother's piano playing would be considered creative by most, but is arguably far more technical than creative.		2009-09-08 20:05:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Can I link to a bunch of talks related to creativity? 2009-09-08 23:41:00

Author:
Syroc
Posts: 3193

Can I link to a bunch of talks related to creativity?

I would have thought you could... but it seems you are struggling somewhat.		2009-09-09 01:02:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Yeah, sleep won. ^_^
I'm going to link to them in the afternoon.		2009-09-09 07:17:00

Author:
Syroc
Posts: 3193

okay, let's have a look.


1 : to bring into existence <god created the heaven and the earth ? genesis 1:1(authorized version)>
2 a : to invest with a new form, office, or rank <was created a lieutenant> b : To produce or bring about by a course of action or behavior <her arrival created a terrible fuss> <create new jobs>
3 : Cause, occasion <famine creates high food prices>
4 a : To produce through imaginative skill <create a painting> b : Design <creates dresses>
intransitive verb
1 : to make or bring into existence something new
2 : to set up a scoring opportunity in basketball <create off the dribble>

I'm going to be un-creative (intransitive verb #1), and accept all the above definitions as equaly valid.

Strangely, my action in doing this is unique so far in this discourse.
does that make my argument any more creative? No, Just unique.		2009-09-09 11:08:00

Author:
swanbrown
Posts: 898

okay, let's have a look.



I'm going to be un-creative (intransitive verb #1), and accept all the above definitions as equaly valid.

Strangely, my action in doing this is unique so far in this discourse.
does that make my argument any more creative? No, Just unique.
Nope... that's the meaning of "create". Different word altogether.		2009-09-09 11:27:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

the word creative gives circular definitions until, you track it through it's variations to it's root which is....three guesses?

oops, I missed the word being defined with the selection box. my bad.

The root defined above is "Create"		2009-09-09 11:32:00

Author:
swanbrown
Posts: 898

You are aware that a word that is dirived from a root does not mean the same thing as that root though? Right? The fact that one is a verb and one is an noun for starters. An activity is not the same as active, for instance. A variable, a variant, the variance and a variation are distinctly different things, yet all are nouns and derived from the same root word.

You can't just define all words by their roots, or you invalidate all of the subtleties of semantics and we may as well revert to "Hulk Smash!" for communication.


Also, where be these circular definitions?		2009-09-09 11:42:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

of course not. but if the definition uses the word it's describing (IE circular) you have to dig untill it stops.

I assummed you weren't using it as a noun to describe one involved in the creation of advertisements
(http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/creative)


EDIT----

This is my starting point.
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/creativity

EDIT--

If it makes you feel any better, I accept all the definitions in-between to be valid also.
QED		2009-09-09 12:03:00

Author:
swanbrown
Posts: 898

Well it's not circular, it just points you to the root word... This would be the issue with using a highly abridged online dictionary as complete reference.

Dropping the dictionary definitions, seeing as language evolves in the real world before the scholars have time to catch up anyway, and personal interpretations of the nuances of words are just as valid... what does "creativity" mean to you?		2009-09-09 12:26:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

What are those words that have a similar meaning... but are different? (I shoulda payed more attention in class....)

Like when you refer to something like a peice of art, you might consider it "creative".

But when it's somthing technical you would consider it being "smart"

....

We seriously need a new way of communicating to each other.....		2009-09-09 12:36:00

Author:
snowyjoe
Posts: 509

Yea, I say unto you, dear friend, that it is only through CREATIVITY that things are CREATED!
And verily, I say that everything is unique, and yet, there is nothing new under star nor heavin!

And so it follows that "creativity" means to me what ever I intend it to mean in a given situation.		2009-09-09 12:42:00

Author:
swanbrown
Posts: 898

Anyone need a cookie?2009-09-09 13:39:00

Author:
CCubbage
Posts: 4430

By "need", what exactly do you mean? I certainly want a cookie. But do I need one?



.		2009-09-09 13:43:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Sure, I could go for a cookie. (:2009-09-09 13:49:00

Author:
swanbrown
Posts: 898

These are sort of related.

Schools kill creativity (http://www.ted.com/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html)
Creativity and Play (http://www.ted.com/talks/tim_brown_on_creativity_and_play.html)

I'll post more later, or you just can just poke around that website and listens to anything. There are loads of interesting talks.		2009-09-09 14:19:00

Author:
Syroc
Posts: 3193


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