Archive: 44 posts

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How many levels did it take you before you hit your peak? Simple question to start with, I'm sure this could grow into a decent discussion though

2009-09-06 14:49:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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I'm not sure if I hit my peak yet. I feel like every new level I start is a tiny bit better than the previous level. With every level I understand a little better how to get the most of the three layers and the thermometer.

2009-09-06 14:51:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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I'd like to think I'm not at my peak yet... But I've made about 15 levels, 4 of which I've kept, and 1 of which is a proper level.

2009-09-06 14:56:00 Author: ARD Posts: 4291

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I don't think I've reached my peak yet with levels. I can create decent levels if I tried, but not any amazing level, my true skill lies within costumes designing.

2009-09-06 15:11:00 Author: Unknown User

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Took me until DMC IV, so that's...What, six levels? The first two I ever made (two colossal piles of fail - "Blame Matt" and "Survival Horror") I deleted a long while ago, when the first two of my DMC levels came out. But I still think DMC IV is the best level I've made so far, especially in terms of visuals and art style. It could not have been as awesome without Burnvictim's boss epicness though.

2009-09-06 15:12:00 Author: KoRnDawwg Posts: 1424

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10 ish. I suck, and everything goes wrong.

2009-09-06 15:14:00 Author: Adam9001 Posts: 744

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I don't think I've hit my peak yet either, I think each of my levels have gotten a little better. My last level I made was 5 Stars and has over a hundred thousand plays so it's going to be hard for me to ever top that, but I think the level that I'm creating now is looking to be my best yet. I'm not sure if anyone ever hits their peak though, I mean you learn something different every level you make and how to make your next one better.

2009-09-06 15:16:00 Author: Dr_Vab Posts: 134

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Well, I'd like to think my peak hasn't been reached yet, but it took about 5 levels before I had something "good" worked out. My first 4 levels were never published, but the 5th was my semi-popular Sack Ninja Training. I actually made a blog post recently about this, which might be of interest to some of you: This was a response to a PM I got from someone and thought it would make a good blog post: Question: What was your first level? Oh, boy... You've opened up Pandora's Box... My LBP Career Well, my first ever level was made just days after christmas. It was awful, lol. Ironically, this was also the only level that got the 'failed to load level' bug. I sorta remade the level, and published it for half a second, but then locked it. No plays, it never saw the light of day. Then, I began working on a brand new level, but still had no idea what I was doing, so it was also pretty bad. I got a bit into the level, but gave up for a lack of inspiration. It was a sort of Indiana Jones-esque type deal. Nothing too special... Alas it was never finished and was eventually deleted. Then I took some time off from lbp to play some various sequels (all coincidence, mind you). I played Skate 2, Resistance 2, and Killzone 2 for a while (mostly Skate 2). Then, I popped lbp back into my system to appease some bored, drunk people. I remembered why in the hell it was so fun. I sort of played around in create mode and tried to make a Portal-esque type level, but never was able to come up with anything that great. I used bunker stone throughout, and it just didn't look right. I did come up with one thing though - the underhung switch puzzle mechanic from some of my levels. Other than that, it was garbage, and was eventually deleted. One Saturday, I was bored and decided to try to find some more of the story mode prizes. I fell in love with the Islands levels, and I was prompted to make Sack Ninja Training. Finally, I was making some actual progress on an actual level. It took about 5 days total (non-stop working, mind you), but it was eventually released to the public. It ended up getting a couple hundred plays and I was ecstatic. It was during this time that I joined lbpc - that would put it at the first of June. Immediately after this, I decided I was going to revisit my Portal-type level. One thing led to another and the Aperture Science Series was born. Originally intended to be a single level, I just started building random stuff as it came to me. When I noticed my thermo was filling up pretty quickly, I decided to end it right before you "escape". I thought I was just going to make a sequel that ended with the GlaDOS fight, so I made her first. It took up way too much thermo, and ended up being super-complicated, so I finally broke down and went with a trilogy. After about a month of non-stop creating, the Aperture Science Series was finished. I was actually a bit shocked at how popular they were - I think I got pretty lucky with the first couple of plays. I published part one and republished only a handful of times before it just took off. In 2 days it went from about 200 plays to about 9000. I was flabbergasted. I was sure to publish each of the other two levels before the previous one was off of Cool Pages, thereby driving traffic to the subsequent levels. After that, I thought I was going to take a break from creating, but I thought of the idea for the Brain Chain level. It was actually created from start to finish in one morning (minus a few tweaks a few days later). Since then, I've been working on a few projects, some more secretive than others, as well as publishing a few tutorial levels based on some of the stuff I've picked up on. Currently, my main project is something I shall not discuss, but my secondary project is the Canyon's throwback level (particularly, The Mines), for which there is a thread in the Ideas and Projects Forum. And that's where I'm at. My first 4 levels never saw the light of day. My first actual level was Sack Ninja Training. I think it's hard to say that anyone's reached their peak. I learn something new every time I enter create mode, so I figure my skills continue to improve. One thing that is a constant learning struggle is the usefulness of certain stickers. Whenever I see some great sticker work, I start removing stickers just to see how it was done. I lack the artistic edge that most people around here have, so it's a constant struggle for me. I'd be interested to hear about some others' LBP Careers...

2009-09-06 15:18:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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I'm pretty sure I hit my peak with Eddy Mitter. I made Trapdoor after it and re-made life On Mars but imo they're not as good. It may be that I haven't peaked yet of course and may go on to create something better in the future, but at the moment I have no real inspiration to create anything more so the feeling I have is that I've done everything I'm going to do. To answer the question, Eddy Mitter was my 7th proper level.

2009-09-06 15:24:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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I don't think I've hit my peak yet either, I think each of my levels have gotten a little better. My last level I made was 5 Stars [...] Aha, if we take stars as a measure I've hit my peak the day I published my first level. Never got anything better or worse than 4 stars. ^_^

2009-09-06 15:32:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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I made my first level in November. It was pure random And It was horrible to look at. It lasted about 2 minutes. It was called "funization". Then I made a new level. Called "The potato Challenge". It was better than the first but was still 1:star: I made a third which was making fun of my friend at school. You kill him then run. Worse than the first two. Then I began making a canyons level that was a vast improvement from my last. But it was only 2:star::star: in my opinion. But I was still learning and didnt published it locked. I got ylod and it was lost forever. I got ps3 back and began making a bunch of different levels. All terrible. I deleted my previous three levels and decided to make a spinning wheel survival. 3:star::star::star: in my opinion and the community. Made a bunch more terrible intrhaos to levels and gave up. Decided to finally make my two player level which was a big sucess and I was really happy. 24000 plays. 2100 hearts :star::star::star::star: Now I am working on a decent canyon level. But Its not based underground like most. (A small part of it is.) But this one will hopefully be my best yet.

2009-09-06 15:33:00 Author: KQuinn94Z Posts: 1758

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1 lol. I doubt I'll ever outdo Subterranean Setbacks with a level of that style. In fact I don't really intend to do anything remotely like it ever again so I don't have to ever make comparisons, plus branching out to something new is so much more fun. I don't think there is such a thing as a peak anyway, if you say you've reached your peak, then either you are being extremely arrogant (i.e it's literally not possible to make anything better), or you are being unabitious - the point at which you say I can't improve myself is the time to give up IMO, but I really don't think there is anyone in this game that literally could not improve, especially if you consider that most of us don't like coming out of our comfort zone.

2009-09-06 15:39:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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1 lol. I doubt I'll ever outdo Subterranean Setbacks with a level of that style. In fact I don't really intend to do anything remotely like it ever again so I don't have to ever make comparisons, plus branching out to something new is so much more fun. I don't think there is such a thing as a peak anyway, if you say you've reached your peak, then either you are being extremely arrogant (i.e it's literally not possible to make anything better), or you are being unabitious - the point at which you say I can't improve myself is the time to give up IMO, but I really don't think there is anyone in this game that literally could not improve, especially if you consider that most of us don't like coming out of our comfort zone. I don't think it's arrogant to say that you 'won't be able to make anything better than that'. It's the opposite in fact.

2009-09-06 15:57:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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I don't think I've hit my creating peak yet, and it took me about 5 or 6 levels to make something that's actually even kinda good. I think I'm getting close to my peak with the level I'm working on, and even the level I'm working on isn't really anything amazing, or at least I would say so.

2009-09-06 16:05:00 Author: lk9988 Posts: 1077

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I've been building levels in video games for almost 5 years, and I still haven't reached my peak, it will probably take many more years. And after owning LBP for about 5 months, I am still slowly making better and better levels, I'm unsure of when I'll make my best level in LBP, I may never.

2009-09-06 16:13:00 Author: warlord_evil Posts: 4193

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I don't think it's arrogant to say that you 'won't be able to make anything better than that'. It would be arrogant to say that it was literally not possible to make anything better, which is the section you bolded Most people would fall into the category of not being ambitious enough to improve upon themselves, which is the other half of that sentence (I would hope that you read the whole sentence...). You can always better yourself, in one way or another, so until you reach the point where it's literally impossible to create anything better, you haven't reached your peak. And even then you can probably branch out into other styles, different techniques etc.

2009-09-06 16:17:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I hope to publish my best level yet tonight!

2009-09-06 16:19:00 Author: BasketSnake Posts: 2391

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Couldn't you have done that last night when I still had a working console?

2009-09-06 16:28:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Harrharr I feel your pain. My 60g broke down a while ago too.

2009-09-06 16:37:00 Author: BasketSnake Posts: 2391

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It would be arrogant to say that it was literally not possible to make anything better, which is the section you bolded Most people would fall into the category of not being ambitious enough to improve upon themselves, which is the other half of that sentence (I would hope that you read the whole sentence...). You can always better yourself, in one way or another, so until you reach the point where it's literally impossible to create anything better, you haven't reached your peak. And even then you can probably branch out into other styles, different techniques etc. But you're suggesting that there's no such thing as a peak? Creators could always improve on logic or their sticker placement etc, but the best levels come from great ideas as opposed to piston or switch usage. I'm not sure it's always possible for someone to better themselves in that way. You can't practice having great ideas or being creative. It either happens or it doesn't. I don't think it's unambitious to say 'I'll probably never top that'. It's being realistic, if it's what the person believes. Saying, 'I'm not going to try to top that' is being unambitious.

2009-09-06 17:06:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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But you're suggesting that there's no such thing as a peak? Yes. I am. Refining gameplay and visual skills is still pushing back the boundaries of your ability as a creator, and many of the best levels aren't really that original - it's the quality of the implementation of an idea that makes it great - not the idea itself. I don't think it's unambitious to say 'I'll probably never top that'. It's being realistic, if it's what the person believes. Saying, 'I'm not going to try to top that' is being unambitious. But they are often one and the same thing. Deciding, or believing that you have reached a peak and can't improve upon yourself will likely be a self-fulfilling prophecy and will lean you towards an attitiude of not attempting the "impossible". I'll be the first to admit this is becoming a very iffy semantic argument though

2009-09-06 17:23:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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A few points I'd like to comment on... Dr Vab...I think it would be foolish to measure your levels worth on stars hearts and plays alone. What you made was an incredibly popular level, popularity and quality don't always go hand in hand. By that I'm not saying that your level isn't any good, I'm just saying that the rating system in LBP is by no means the best indicator of whether you've hit your peak or not. Rtm...I think you and Matt may be looking at this from two different angles. I wouldn't say it is arrogant in the slightest to say that I cannot improve anymore, and that is the point I think Matt is making. However, if I said that no one else could improve upon my work that could definitely be considered as arrogant. That's not the way I intended it though, it was just about you personally being able to better your work, not if others would be able to better it. And whether or not a peak exists is a whole other story... If you look at it literally then no, it doesn't. As simple things like smoothing out a corner etc can be seen as an improvement. However generally and viewing it from a little bit further back...then yeah, I'd say you can hit a peak.

2009-09-06 17:26:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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I have too far to go to improve until I can't improve no more. And whoever mentioned that you can't be brilliant at everything. If your the perfect creator at platforming levels, try making a race or a story or a puzzle level. Getting better at these is improving your littlebigplanet skills, opening your ability to many more areas.

2009-09-06 17:38:00 Author: KQuinn94Z Posts: 1758

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I'll be the first to admit this is becoming a very iffy semantic argument though Yes. I did mean to add something similar to my post there, in that i don't think it's really going anywhere, nor answering jack's question haha!

2009-09-06 17:39:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096

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I wouldn't say I "peaked" (because I'm always improving with every level), but after my Expedition Egypt level using the History Kit, I can say I completely understand all of the availible tools and how to work with them.

2009-09-06 17:48:00 Author: Sack-Jake Posts: 1153

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As appreciation is quite totally subjective, no one can tell they did "peak". You can only tell stuff like "i'm not inspired as much as before", "i make less sales than before", etc. .

2009-09-06 18:20:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901

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i'm still learning but it took me 9 published level before i made a decent level (Lab Assistant). I may remake my first level ("Holiday Gone wrong" now taken down) sometime in the future because it was actually a very good concept just not implemented well.

2009-09-06 18:46:00 Author: Chuk_Chuk Posts: 108

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A few points I'd like to comment on... Dr Vab...I think it would be foolish to measure your levels worth on stars hearts and plays alone. What you made was an incredibly popular level, popularity and quality don't always go hand in hand. By that I'm not saying that your level isn't any good, I'm just saying that the rating system in LBP is by no means the best indicator of whether you've hit your peak or not. Sorry, I was in a rush this morning, I was actually trying to say that I'll probably never get another level with that many plays again, but I think my next level is going to be an overall better level than my last even though it may not be as popular. I know that the amount of plays and stars don't mean how good a level actually is, I've played plenty of levels with very little plays and stars that I thought were great, and I've played levels with thousands of plays and were highly rated that I thought were terrible.

2009-09-06 20:28:00 Author: Dr_Vab Posts: 134

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I think that of most levels. I mean I can see their merit but they are rarely the sort of levels I enjoy playing.

2009-09-06 20:32:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Never got anything better or worse than 4 stars. ^_^ Meee toooo! *Hi fives*

2009-09-06 21:25:00 Author: KoRnDawwg Posts: 1424

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Hmmm... Peaks. Well, I'm sure I haven't hit my peak yet, but I think I'm pretty darn close. My level The Stronghold is perhaps the best level I have - and yet, it lacks plays.

2009-09-06 21:28:00 Author: SLS10 Posts: 1129

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I'm building my second level and it seems to be 10 thousand times better than my first one, but that's only because my first level was from a year ago.

2009-09-06 21:39:00 Author: Arkei Posts: 1432

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I think that each level we create or even just every moment we spend creating adds to our ability as creators, even if it is only a marginal difference. There might be a plateau at which point your creations show a constant level of quality, but most of us have not reached that yet. As we create more and more, we learn how to create better, faster, and more efficiently, picking up important tips and tricks along the way. Every time you make a level, you are honing your ability to create and thus are improving. Even if you feel you have peaked, a new and revolutionary inspiration might take over you and you will create something that you feel bests your previous "masterpiece". So to answer your question, like many others I feel I have yet to reach my "peak".

2009-09-06 21:43:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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Well seeing as I started this thread I should probably answer it too. I do think I've peaked now. I'd say somewhere in the middle of Calamity Construction I found my style and 'rules' that I stick to. Playing back FT1 and 2 now I see a few things that I think 'hmmm I wouldn't do that anymore'. That being said I don't think them things really detract from the level so they were probably pointless bringing up actually Between FT2, Calamity Construction, Industrial Assistance and Tribal Ruins. I honestly couldn't tell you which is the best, people may disagree and say that 'FT2 is better than CC' or whatever, but I honestly believe that they're around the same standard and any opinion of which is best come down to personal preference. For this reason, that is why I believe I've hit my peak. I haven't produced a level that is 'better' than my previous one for quite sometime. I've hit the top of my ability, that's not to say I won't keep trying to push on, but I don't think it's possible for me to better them really, I think it's more a case of moving left and right and trying new things. EDIT:Just read the post above me and I guess the point of plateau has been mentioned at just the right time

2009-09-06 21:47:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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Personally I think there is a massive difference between producing a level that is as good as it can really be at being what it is (someone please rephrase that for me), and reaching the top of your ability as a creator. i.e: creation reaching a point where it is as good as it can be vs creator reaching a point where they are as good as they can be. Or does everyone else think that they are the same thing?

2009-09-06 23:15:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Personally I think there is a massive difference between producing a level that is as good as it can really be at being what it is (someone please rephrase that for me), and reaching the top of your ability as a creator. i.e: creation reaching a point where it is as good as it can be vs creator reaching a point where they are as good as they can be. Or does everyone else think that they are the same thing? I feel that they are the same thing, because the only limits on the creation are the thermometer and the creator.

2009-09-06 23:19:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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I feel that they are the same thing, because the only limits on the creation are the thermometer and the creator. But if those are the limits they can't be the same thing. One the one hand you have the averagely talented guy or girl who will with a lot of practice make a really good level, but if you than give the level to someone who is much more talented he could make the level even better. Let's say you are an athlete, you have practised running 100m since you were 6 and are now 15 years later you run the distance in 9.7 seconds and hold the world record. You feel great, you have reached the maximum. However two years later Usain Bolt comes along and runs the same distance in 9.5 seconds. You might have had more practise, more experience than him but he is just better. A lot better. In fact this is as good as it can get, but you, or anyone else, have no chance in hell to ever reach that level no matter how much you practice or what doctor you visit.

2009-09-07 00:04:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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But if those are the limits they can't be the same thing. One the one hand you have the averagely talented guy or girl who will with a lot of practice make a really good level, but if you than give the level to someone who is much more talented he could make the level even better. Let's say you are an athlete, you have practised running 100m since you were 6 and are now 15 years later you run the distance in 9.7 seconds and hold the world record. You feel great, you have reached the maximum. However two years later Usain Bolt comes along and runs the same distance in 9.5 seconds. You might have had more practise, more experience than him but he is just better. A lot better. In fact this is as good as it can get, but you, or anyone else, have no chance in hell to ever reach that level no matter how much you practice or what doctor you visit. You're comparing the talents and peaking level between two different people though. When I started this thread all I had in mind was your own personal peaking point regardless of whether anyone else could better it or not. I think that's what Rtm meant in his last post too.

2009-09-07 00:09:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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I think this'll be my last post here, as I'm clearly coming at this from a completely different perspective to everyone else but let me just clarify myself with a contrived, but not unrealistic, example. A creator makes a level that is basically a visual showpiece. Very simple gaming but by god does it look good. It's immersive and moving and mind bogglingly pretty. It's pretty much as good as you can get for a level of that kind, nothing you could change would improve the experience. That is a creation being as good as it can be at what it is. Is the creator as good as they can be though? Maybe they go away and really gets their head around techniques for creating engaging gamplay, which they'd never really done before. If they do this then have improved as a creator. That's the difference I'm talking about. When jack asked the question about a creator peaking, this is my interpretation. There is always room for improvement somewhere - this game is to broad in scope for one person to really explore its full potential. .

2009-09-07 00:26:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I think this'll be my last post here, as I'm clearly coming at this from a completely different perspective to everyone else but let me just clarify myself with a contrived, but not unrealistic, example. A creator makes a level that is basically a visual showpiece. Very simple gaming but by god does it look good. It's immersive and moving and mind bogglingly pretty. It's pretty much as good as you can get for a level of that kind, nothing you could change would improve the experience. That is a creation being as good as it can be at what it is. Is the creator as good as they can be though? Maybe they go away and really gets their head around techniques for creating engaging gamplay, which they'd never really done before. If they do this then have improved as a creator. That's the difference I'm talking about. When jack asked the question about a creator peaking, this is my interpretation. There is always room for improvement somewhere - this game is to broad in scope for one person to really explore its full potential. . I guess when you view it from that point then yeah there's always room for improvement in that you can become a more 'complete creator'. Like I'm sure I could improve on my story telling skills or in making a RPG type level, but I never have any desire to do so, so when considering that the only types of level I want to make are platformers (because they're the ones I enjoy playing), then I believe myself to have hit my peak.

2009-09-07 00:34:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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I think this'll be my last post here, as I'm clearly coming at this from a completely different perspective to everyone else but let me just clarify myself with a contrived, but not unrealistic, example. A creator makes a level that is basically a visual showpiece. Very simple gaming but by god does it look good. It's immersive and moving and mind bogglingly pretty. It's pretty much as good as you can get for a level of that kind, nothing you could change would improve the experience. That is a creation being as good as it can be at what it is. Is the creator as good as they can be though? Maybe they go away and really gets their head around techniques for creating engaging gamplay, which they'd never really done before. If they do this then have improved as a creator. That's the difference I'm talking about. When jack asked the question about a creator peaking, this is my interpretation. There is always room for improvement somewhere - this game is to broad in scope for one person to really explore its full potential. . I guess when you view it from that point then yeah there's always room for improvement in that you can become a more 'complete creator'. Like I'm sure I could improve on my story telling skills or in making a RPG type level, but I never have any desire to do so, so when considering that the only type of level I want to make is a platformer (because they're the ones I enjoy playing), then I believe myself to have hit my peak. I guess it all depends on how literal you take the phrase 'I have hit my peak' though really.

2009-09-07 00:35:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494

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You may think I'm a noob, but I'm still learning things everyday. Many questions come to my head during the day, and I just think "I have to try that". Nope. I think I've not reached my peak. Every level I've made, is technically far better that the previous, and I hope I'll keep like this at least one more level.

2009-09-07 01:19:00 Author: poms Posts: 383

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I can't even see the peak as I stand here, humbled by the mountain.

2009-09-07 21:14:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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I don't think I've hit my peak as far as ability is concerned, but creativity doesn't just boil down to accumulated knowledge does it? To really hit your stride, enthusiasm and imagination need to be there on tap alongside any technical/mechanical skill. I'm feeling no need to make anything at the mo, i had problems with my last one and it's knocked my enthusiasm for creating right down the pan, so i may have peaked in that respect, who knows?

2009-09-07 22:09:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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