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#2

Always test test the water before you jump in!

Archive: 774 posts


So it says on the signup page that your PSN account must be set up to accept email from Sony Computer Entertainment.......
Im guessing that is under Notification Preferences in Account Information after you sign in........

but my question is..
Which option (or both) do i need to click yes to??
1. receiving marketing materials form SCE?
or 2. allowing SCE to share your personal info with SCE partners for marketing purposes?

i'd rather not get spam or send out my personal info to random third party entities
2009-08-22 05:02:00

Author:
Unknown User


Shouldn't HAVE to do either, seeing as you are directly giving MM your email in the beta signup page. those two checkboxes collectively mean "do you want us to try and sell you stuff?" and "do you want us to give your info to people we'd like to sell you stuff?"

EDIT: I should add "unless i'm horribly mistaken." but i don't think i get emails from sony or its partners unless i add money to my wallet on the psn store.
2009-08-22 05:15:00

Author:
Memodrix
Posts: 879


okay.. that would be nice (not to have to)..
but then what do they mean on this page...
http://beta.mediamolecule.com/
...when they say:

In order to be accepted into any test run in the future you will need to ensure that your PSN account is set up to accept email from Sony Computer Entertainment.

does that mean after the water thing? or including the water thing?
or perhaps there is some other option somewhere on my PS3 that i can let SCE contact me if they need to?
2009-08-22 05:21:00

Author:
Unknown User


I'mma go investigate for a few minutes just to make sure i ain't jerking your chain, but i believe that its referring to spam filters.

Sometimes they will kill the emails cause they look automated. Gonna double check tho. cause I'm paranoid like that.

UPDATE: According to my psn info (checked through account info on the ps3 menu I do not have either of the two options on marketing info checked, yet i was in the load they let into the closed beta...thingy... the week or so before they shut it down and launched the game. So no, you shouldn't need them checked.
2009-08-22 05:25:00

Author:
Memodrix
Posts: 879


okay cool...
thank you very much
2009-08-22 05:45:00

Author:
Unknown User


So no, you shouldn't need them checked.
Actually, that's incorrect - if you want a shot at making it into the beta, make sure you have configured your account to allow for marketing contact from both SCE and its partners!
2009-08-22 05:58:00

Author:
ConfusedCartman
Posts: 3729


Yeah, you have to tick both boxes in order for them to allow you get in the beta. I remember someone got in the Online Create late (around a month late) because he didn't check both boxes.

So.. go tick them now!
2009-08-22 06:32:00

Author:
AwesomePossum
Posts: 446


You need both them boxes ticked to be safe. To check your actually recieving emails, change your PSN password, you'll get a notification email telling you it's been changed.

I wouldn't count on the new Beta emails coming or the Beta startng soon either, it could be delayed.

And the first creator pack was free because it was only changes to already availible tools, and really the global lighting should have been in the MGS pack. The water and included has probably taken a while to create, so I hardly think it will be free
2009-08-22 06:35:00

Author:
GruntosUK
Posts: 1754


Really? eh, well. I guess I am horribly wrong then......Pay no attention to the gnome.

though i had no trouble with the other betas as configured. odd.

EDIT: just to try and make up for the screw-up on my part....... here's how to check 'em. log onto your ps3, go to Playstation Network > Account Management > Account Information > Notification Preferences. it'll give you the options and tell you where said emails go to.

once again. sorry about that..... /sigh
2009-08-22 07:03:00

Author:
Memodrix
Posts: 879


I've checked both boxes. OK, thank god, and then just for the heck of it, I changed my comment to "Waterbeta Applicant"2009-08-22 08:03:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


Actually, that's incorrect - if you want a shot at making it into the video

Video?
Whaaa?
2009-08-22 08:28:00

Author:
ARD
Posts: 4291


Video?
Whaaa?

whats? do tell i want to be in a video i want to make my sackboy look pretty :blush::star::star::star::star::star:
2009-08-22 09:14:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy
Posts: 3365


Freudian slip eh?

A very nice one too! I already have sackboy wearing the costume from my avatar here, in-game!
2009-08-22 09:20:00

Author:
croissantbuncake
Posts: 572


From CC too, of all people.
Come on, you gotta tell us now! And quickly! I'm going on holiday in like 10 minutes
2009-08-22 09:22:00

Author:
ARD
Posts: 4291


I think it's safe to assume that CC had a video open in another window, which distracted him from using the proper term "beta".

For politeness' sake, let's all agree that the aforementioned video was wholesome and full of good-hearted learnings.
2009-08-22 10:01:00

Author:
Teebonesy
Posts: 1937


From CC too, of all people.
Come on, you gotta tell us now! And quickly! I'm going on holiday in like 10 minutes

CC tel it in 10 minutes oke :arg:

i hope its not come out knoday beqause i have school
2009-08-22 11:05:00

Author:
Unknown User


Oh no i tryed logging into my gmail (my email that i used for my psn) and i got the email right, but the password FAILED D:

I know it could be 6 diffrent passwords D:

And i didn't register a backup email >_<
2009-08-22 13:40:00

Author:
Adam9001
Posts: 744


Can't wait **** it! I wan to try it now!!!!2009-08-22 13:58:00

Author:
Kobe24Life
Posts: 150


I've entered before the boxes were ticked, I just ticked them now. Does the application still count, will I still get an email? 2009-08-22 14:13:00

Author:
rooky
Posts: 6


It should be fine. I'd say the e-mails are sent as long as the box is checked at time of sending.2009-08-22 16:40:00

Author:
croissantbuncake
Posts: 572


Cant wait 2009-08-22 16:43:00

Author:
Unknown User


I've signed up, but didn't get a confirmation e-mail, should I have got one?2009-08-22 18:14:00

Author:
Harryup1
Posts: 7


I defo signed up... But i fergot my FFing password for my email >_<2009-08-22 18:27:00

Author:
Adam9001
Posts: 744


I've signed up, but didn't get a confirmation e-mail, should I have got one?

We were supposed to get a confirmation email?
2009-08-22 19:17:00

Author:
L0l_L0l-
Posts: 139


I didn't get a confirmation email, but my details are definately on the system. I don't think it's anything to worry about.


After all, what's the worst that could happen? You don't get into the awesomest beta ever. That's not so bad now is it
2009-08-22 19:19:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


I have a horrific feeling that I failed way too epically to get in.

I used the same PSN ID twice, once with the wrong email
2009-08-22 19:27:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


We were supposed to get a confirmation email?

People a few pages back were posting theirs.
2009-08-22 19:57:00

Author:
Harryup1
Posts: 7


No, they were only posting what the MM page said once your submission was made. There are no confirmation e-mails sent yet that I am aware of...2009-08-22 20:00:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338


yea, there are none.2009-08-22 20:28:00

Author:
oldage
Posts: 2824


so, what else do you sackboys and sackgirls think is in this level kit? Weather Effects? Character Enhancements? <a href="http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/530-Little-Big-Planet">Chocloate?(foul language ahead)</a>2009-08-22 20:31:00

Author:
Memodrix
Posts: 879


Thanks guys I was worried there.

And I hope it has cheese as a new material
2009-08-22 22:27:00

Author:
Harryup1
Posts: 7


still cant wait 2009-08-22 22:51:00

Author:
Unknown User


which is why it's always a good idea to enter a fake birthday


oh right, i forgot i did
2009-08-23 03:28:00

Author:
kodymcq
Posts: 281


beqause its BIG and mutch poeple whant it and if it is not free than mutch guys cant get it and that is not cool

Last I recalled the Paintinator was BIG too.

Only creators will want it, and creators will be willing to hand over the money for the water pack. Everyone else will still be able to play water levels.

I guarantee you this won't be free, but since when has MM's DLC been expensive? What was the MGS pack? 5 Dollars?
2009-08-23 05:14:00

Author:
qrtda235566
Posts: 3664


im hoping for weather effects....especially water being used as rain which could set off a switch you create to raise the water bit by bit...as to simulate a real flood occuring....oh and maybe a way to create waves so we can have a tsunami and such2009-08-23 05:57:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy
Posts: 3365


oh and maybe a way to create waves so we can have a tsunami and such

there are waves but we need to make mashines to create them
are maybe let a big rock fall in the water
2009-08-23 11:12:00

Author:
Unknown User


Or maybe if you wanted consistent wave, a big paddle of sorts moving up and down to create constant waves?2009-08-23 11:37:00

Author:
croissantbuncake
Posts: 572


Or maybe if you wanted consistent wave, a big paddle of sorts moving up and down to create constant waves?

yea
(good idea)
2009-08-23 11:40:00

Author:
Unknown User


I'm just asking if I can still get into the BETA. I don't know if you will send them at one time for all which seems so obviously right in my mind. I don't know if thats how it will work anyways.

I signed up on the 21st but at the time I didn't have the email thing accepted at the time. By then I thought it was just let them email me stuff about my wallet. I did fix this up so I'm just wondering if I got cancelled out when I signed up before...if you understand.

Whenever I like a game and theres something new (it is common) that only some people get I always think I will win. And I do. That just makes it harder when you loose.
2009-08-23 13:27:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710


No, it's not. Everyone in the Online Create Beta gets access to this new Water Beta, but it doesn't work the other way around as far as I've gathered.
I'm sure this is old news, but I want to correct my previous statement:

I have confirmed that those who participate in the Water Beta will also be able to use all of the Online Create features currently available to the Online Create Beta participants. However, I believe once the Water Beta begins, we will focus on testing the Water feature more than the Online Create feature. So while you'll get all the latest features, you will not be participating in separate beta tests. We'll all be working from the same version of the game.

I apologize for spreading misinformation! :blush:
2009-08-24 05:38:00

Author:
ConfusedCartman
Posts: 3729


I'm sure this is old news, but I want to correct my previous statement:

I have confirmed that those who participate in the Water Beta will also be able to use all of the Online Create features currently available to the Online Create Beta participants. However, I believe once the Water Beta begins, we will focus on testing the Water feature more than the Online Create feature. So while you'll get all the latest features, you will not be participating in separate beta tests. We'll all be working from the same version of the game.

I apologize for spreading misinformation! :blush:

BURN HIM!! HE'S A WITCH!! BURN THE WI.... oh, sorry... nevermind. :eek: Thanks for the news Cc.
2009-08-24 06:16:00

Author:
Rustbukkit
Posts: 1737


I'm sure this is old news, but I want to correct my previous statement:

I have confirmed that those who participate in the Water Beta will also be able to use all of the Online Create features currently available to the Online Create Beta participants. However, I believe once the Water Beta begins, we will focus on testing the Water feature more than the Online Create feature. So while you'll get all the latest features, you will not be participating in separate beta tests. We'll all be working from the same version of the game.

I apologize for spreading misinformation! :blush:

Good News
2009-08-24 07:21:00

Author:
Unknown User


That is good news, I was thinking if I got into the water beta I'd be expected to be testing the online create as well, and I really can't be jacked with online create 2009-08-24 10:29:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


I just want some new toys to play with. So anyone know how many people are gonna be let in. I'm hoping it's a big number. Big enough for me to get in =P

No fat jokes
2009-08-24 10:39:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710


I was hoping the online create beta was about finished and would be released before the water beta started.

We don't really want 2 betas running at the same time do we? The lag and connection problems have been bad enough while just the online create beta has been in progress.
2009-08-24 11:48:00

Author:
mistervista
Posts: 2210


So, we can go crazy with Water Tools with Multiple People afterall?
Sweet!
Who wants to do that with me should they get in?
2009-08-24 13:00:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


That's cool.

I really hope I get in now, I'd like to try out online create.
2009-08-24 13:51:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


You guys better turn the thing upside down and really mess with it. Glitch it, bug it, find the problems!!!

I don't want a buggy update again. Same goes for online beta. I hope you guys aren't just having fun and that you actually do your unpaid job there.

Me? I'm overtiming crazy on Assassin's Creed 2 already so i've done my part somewhere.

.
2009-08-24 15:20:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901


I'm just gonna put a sealed box underwater with an infinate life checkpoint in it and watch sackboy drown over and over again.

Seriously though, the first thing I'm gonna do is watch sackboy drown. Then I'll throw all of the materials and objects in the water to see what floats and what sinks and at what speeds they sink. Then probably drown sackboy again
2009-08-24 15:23:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


I'm gonna make 2 pistons attached to blocks that bounce sackboy around in a very confined space.
I wonder how fast they will move when you bounce sacks underwater!
2009-08-24 15:39:00

Author:
Zwollie
Posts: 2173


Did anyone received the email yet?2009-08-24 15:45:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


Did anyone received the email yet?
I don't think anyone did, I'm guessing there would be a sudden surge of activity in this thread if the emails were sent out.
2009-08-24 15:46:00

Author:
BSprague
Posts: 2325


yeah didnt they give out a hint on what day it starts? something about a forecast and a "wet" day not in that way <.<....2009-08-24 15:50:00

Author:
Flare Skull
Posts: 216


You guys better turn the thing upside down and really mess with it. Glitch it, bug it, find the problems!!!

I don't want a buggy update again. Same goes for online beta. I hope you guys aren't just having fun and that you actually do your unpaid job there.

Me? I'm overtiming crazy on Assassin's Creed 2 already so i've done my part somewhere.

.

Well if I get in the water beta test I can guarantee I'll find all the bugs. I'm always finding bugs where it's supposed to be 'bugless'.
2009-08-24 15:50:00

Author:
mistervista
Posts: 2210


Everyone's thanking CC for good news even though i've been telling you all those things for the past week xD

Mm won't be annoyed if you don't find any bugs either
I couldn't find any in the OC beta, i'm just unlucky i suppose (or would that make me lucky?). They just want testers to use the new features a lot and create as they would in the normal game
2009-08-24 16:00:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100


I don't think anyone did, I'm guessing there would be a sudden surge of activity in this thread if the emails were sent out.

Not if the mail says that you must be silent and undercover and anonimate.

I hope MrV gets in since all the trouble Sony gave to him, since I'll be sure he'll will find every little bug, like even Silverleon/Yarudark would do.

As in regards to do things normally...
they should be acknowledged that people
https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=15394
2009-08-24 16:02:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


yeah didnt they give out a hint on what day it starts? something about a forecast and a "wet" day not in that way <.<....
They did give a very shady message:

Weather forecast is looking quite wet for next week. Full forecast at noon today.
2009-08-24 16:29:00

Author:
BSprague
Posts: 2325


Well it's monday and it's raining a lot!

Maybe they were telling us about the actual weather forecast
2009-08-24 16:35:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100


OMG OMG OMG I JUST GOT A EMAIL SAYING IM IN THE BETA!!!

IM NOT JOKInG!!
:-DDDDD IM SO HAPPEY
2009-08-24 16:51:00

Author:
Adam9001
Posts: 744


Well then I didn't make it, since my mail is empty as my broken little big heart.2009-08-24 16:58:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


I don't actually believe him...2009-08-24 16:59:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


What I know for sure is that I'm not lucky about this kind of things.
I was hyped but I knew from the start I wouldn't be in.
2009-08-24 17:03:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


They did give a very shady message:

Weather forecast is looking quite wet for next week. Full forecast at noon today.

And remember that they announced the beta on twitter exactly at noon (well, one minute before actually). Just a shame there's no hint of what day it could be, but it looks definate for this week.

And because the beta sign-ups have now closed, hopefully we should be getitng it soon - maybe tomorrow?
2009-08-24 17:06:00

Author:
Nuclearfish
Posts: 927


My idea is that they will hand pick the testers and it will not be first come first served, or the signing would have been restricted to a day or an afternoon.2009-08-24 17:08:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


I was joking 2009-08-24 17:09:00

Author:
Adam9001
Posts: 744


My idea is that they will hand pick the testers and it will not be first come first served, or the signing would have been restricted to a day or an afternoon.

There'll still be hundreds or even thousands of people who signed up. Hand picking would take ages, I think they'll choose randomly.
2009-08-24 17:11:00

Author:
Nuclearfish
Posts: 927


I'll begin by just raising the water, then proceeding to make a level accordingly, testing out the Physics as I go.2009-08-24 17:38:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


There'll still be hundreds or even thousands of people who signed up. Hand picking would take ages, I think they'll choose randomly.

They did leave a twitter message saying "It's Over 9000!", and that wasn't too long after they opened the sign-ups. I'm guessing they have well over 10,000 sign-ups by now.
2009-08-24 17:44:00

Author:
BSprague
Posts: 2325


if i am in the water beta i am going to make a wave maschine 2009-08-24 18:26:00

Author:
Unknown User


When did the sign-up page close?

I'm guessing that people are chose randomly because there's no way that Mm are going to go through thousands of applicants to find specific ones, unless they don't plan on releasing the beta for months.

Oh yeah, and the first thing I'm going to do is flood all my levels. Then drown Sackboy. Then mess around.
Then get... serious
2009-08-24 18:36:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


i got 2 on the 100 %
chance that i get in :hero:
2009-08-24 18:39:00

Author:
Unknown User


i got 2 on the 100 %
chance that i get in :hero:

Eh?

(10 characters)
2009-08-24 18:41:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


Eh?

(10 characters)

MM is going to select guys random like in a lingo

so we all got some chance
2009-08-24 18:53:00

Author:
Unknown User


MM is going to select guys random like in a lingo

so we all got some chance

I hope not, because as the popular saying goes: If it wasn't for bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all.

I'd rather that they did it in the order of applications, which would make my chances much higher.
2009-08-24 18:55:00

Author:
BSprague
Posts: 2325


I'd rather that they did it in the order of applications, which would make my chances much higher.

I'd rather they did in alphanumeric order, starting at rtm... which would make my chances much higher
2009-08-24 19:15:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


I'd rather they did in alphanumeric order, starting at rtm... which would make my chances much higher

I'm pretty sure they'll do it randomly to be fair.
And the computer that does it would be built out of... uhh... a Calculator that possibly could just be a Microwave.

Or they'll pick names out of a hat, of course, all of the earliest applied names would be at the bottom, and it'll be a large hat.
2009-08-24 19:17:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


I'm pretty sure they'll do it randomly to be fair.
And the computer that does it would be built out of... uhh... a Calculator that possibly could just be a Microwave.

Or they'll pick names out of a hat, of course, all of the earliest applied names would be at the bottom, and it'll be a large hat.

They don't make hats that big!

I think it will be random. Any other way just isn't fair.
2009-08-24 19:22:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


They don't make hats that big!

I think it will be random. Any other way just isn't fair.

Exactly my point.
2009-08-24 19:36:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


Hmmm... It's meant to be pouring down on Wednesday... Maybe then? If they have closed the page down?2009-08-24 21:44:00

Author:
Harryup1
Posts: 7


MM fast
do the Lingo thinhy
2009-08-24 21:46:00

Author:
Unknown User


I'd rather that they did it in the order of applications, which would make my chances much higher.

They won't be doing it in the roder people signed up. Say they only had 100 places - what would have been the point in keeping it open until today? They would have ended it as soon as they hit 100.

So if they're doing it that way, then that means everyone who signed up will be in, which is why they've closed it now. But I still think it will be random.
2009-08-24 21:46:00

Author:
Nuclearfish
Posts: 927


I was joking

Phew - I was scared there for a second D:
2009-08-24 21:51:00

Author:
L0l_L0l-
Posts: 139


I want a water pistol! Hopefully you'll be able to put water wherever you like. 2009-08-24 22:10:00

Author:
Leather-Monkey
Posts: 2266


I want a water pistol! Hopefully you'll be able to put water wherever you like.
have you read the rest of the thread?
it already has been discussed, and well, rangerzero made a good point: it is very engine heavy if you'd be able to use water for waterfalls etc...
2009-08-24 22:12:00

Author:
oldage
Posts: 2824


have you read the rest of the thread?
it already has been discussed, and well, rangerzero made a good point: it is very engine heavy if you'd be able to use water for waterfalls etc...

Yeah. Think about when you've got too many lights or point bubbles and the game is reduced to about 5fps. It would never work to have small amounts of water running freely.

Also, oldage, I love your avatar.
2009-08-25 00:23:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


so much for the email going out today eh?

i say we hav a couple weeks until we get to test
2009-08-25 01:04:00

Author:
Sonic5411
Posts: 712


so much for the email going out today eh?

i say we hav a couple weeks until we get to test

If there's no info tomorrow, then yes, I agree.
2009-08-25 01:16:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


eh...luckily i have 2 PSN accounts...registered both...if some how i get the beta on both i wouldnt mind giving away one of my codes...hopefully i just get in...if i get a 2nd one ill just give it to someone i know will put it into good use2009-08-25 03:57:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy
Posts: 3365


eh...luckily i have 2 PSN accounts...registered both...if some how i get the beta on both i wouldnt mind giving away one of my codes...hopefully i just get in...if i get a 2nd one ill just give it to someone i know will put it into good use

Same. I just need one of them to work...
2009-08-25 04:13:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338


if i get in the beta,
ima be different from EVERYONE ELSE!

(individuality ftw.)

ima test to see hoe bombs and tnt act underwater, then make a minefield.
2009-08-25 04:34:00

Author:
kodymcq
Posts: 281


Same. I just need one of them to work...

lol seems like you and me think alike...glad to see someone else is using their noodles...how many of you all will join us in raising the percentile with a second account? (shall i say who ALREADY did since registering is closed?)

but regardless if i end up getting into the beta im going to make a social group for all of us in the water beta to discuss and exchange notes on what we find during our testin
2009-08-25 05:44:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy
Posts: 3365


eh...luckily i have 2 PSN accounts...registered both...if some how i get the beta on both i wouldnt mind giving away one of my codes...hopefully i just get in...if i get a 2nd one ill just give it to someone i know will put it into good use

i got the same
2009-08-25 07:44:00

Author:
Unknown User


I have two accounts, but I just used one since I don't think it's fair.
Since everyone should have the same possibility to be picked up.
Then, sometimes the number you will get for the beta is ID related and doesn't work on other IDs (Motorstorm: Pacific Rift worked in that way, I was picked up to join the beta but I had not a connection at home, so I gave my code away but it didn't work)
2009-08-25 07:45:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


I have two accounts, but I just used one since I don't think it's fair.
Since everyone should have the same possibility to be picked up.
Then, sometimes the number you will get for the beta is ID related and doesn't work on other IDs (Motorstorm: Pacific Rift worked in that way, I was picked up to join the beta but I had not a connection at home, so I gave my code away but it didn't work)

i think the same mm
most give some forum bosses these beta codes and let them give it out on the guys that are good
2009-08-25 07:49:00

Author:
Unknown User


Well Hybrid, that's quit different because forum admins know (more or less) the behaviour of people in the forums.

Would someone here have anything to say if ConfusedCartman would pick up rtm223, RockSauron, Zwollie, MrVista? (just to name the firsts that comes to my mind)

The answer is NO, and we all know it, and actually it would be the best thing (surely better than a sign uo), since the devs would have the best Beta Tester available, since people here lives and breathes LBP.
2009-08-25 08:14:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


Quite true.

I wonder if the PSN downtime today will have anything to do with the beta?
2009-08-25 09:41:00

Author:
croissantbuncake
Posts: 572


Meh, all I know is that if i wake up at the crack of the afternoon and don't go off to work with some news one way or the other i'm gonna be mighty irritated.
As opposed to mighty irritating.
2009-08-25 10:15:00

Author:
Memodrix
Posts: 879


The answer is NO, and we all know it, and actually it would be the best thing (surely better than a sign uo), since the devs would have the best Beta Tester available, since people here lives and breathes LBP.

Don't forget Sweating, some of us here would go so low as to Sweat LBP.
2009-08-25 11:20:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


Quite true.

I wonder if the PSN downtime today will have anything to do with the beta?

PSN is going under maintenance for 5 hours and it's all Mm's fault!

The downtime will probably be something to do with XMB 3, or maybe they're upgrading the servers.
2009-08-25 11:33:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100


My heart's gonna sink if I don't get in. So I'm gonna be Earl and try some karma work.

And the way a lot of people choose a number is that they have numbers on each name (in order of entry) and use a random number generator.

This is going to be hard, waiting for a message.
2009-08-25 11:46:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710


i think the same mm
most give some forum bosses these beta codes and let them give it out on the guys that are good

I hope it's not that way, I wouldn't have a chance ):
2009-08-25 12:54:00

Author:
L0l_L0l-
Posts: 139


In my opinion, if we hear nothing (by that I mean an announcement, not the confirmation email) by 4pm (UK) then we aren't getting the beta this week.

I'm disappointed. I expected Mm to of at least announced something by now.
2009-08-25 14:02:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


In my opinion, if we hear nothing (by that I mean an announcement, not the confirmation email) by 4pm (UK) then we aren't getting the beta this week.

I'm disappointed. I expected Mm to of at least announced something by now.

Agreed. I doubt I'll get in, but Mm should have pleased the winners by now.

(yes, the people who get in are winners in my eyes )
2009-08-25 14:39:00

Author:
MarkoWolfy
Posts: 445


yea its not just sony upgrading servers, i cant even play hardly any of the games i own.

Earlier today, I tried to log onto SOCOM, but it says it failed to connect to the server even though i have a friend that lives somewhat close to me and is playing > I can't log onto Battlefields servers either.

Oh and something off topic, I think I found out how they make objects float in LBP Water! You know that red and white material that was used as a raft? maybe they attached that to the boat and bathtub in a place we could'nt see it?
2009-08-25 20:13:00

Author:
Noremac469
Posts: 143


Well, time for work, and my appetite is yet to be wetted. Now i'm irritated.

sorry, even i had to do at least one pun...even if poorly done.
2009-08-25 20:26:00

Author:
Memodrix
Posts: 879


Well the water is coming but there may be a wait for it while MM make sure that they're ready to put the water beta up
I'm really looking forward to the water beta but let's just be patient for it

And if more than Sony servers are down then it may not necessarily be the Sony Servers maybe it's an Internet loss connection or maybe the main PSN servers are working quite low thus not connecting anywhere, only a guess I had a similar problems a while ago
2009-08-25 20:30:00

Author:
Elsa
Posts: 164


i am not so exited anymore 2009-08-25 20:37:00

Author:
Unknown User


i am not so exited anymore

me neither.

and that makes me a sad panda.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Sad_panda.svg/500px-Sad_panda.svg.png
2009-08-25 20:53:00

Author:
MarkoWolfy
Posts: 445


i was gonna be sad....but i just bought batman arkhum so im surviving off of this until water beta arrives.....thank god for mark hamil being the joker 2009-08-25 20:54:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy
Posts: 3365


maybe 2 days til the beta release2009-08-25 21:12:00

Author:
Unknown User


not maybe, hopefully... =/2009-08-25 21:19:00

Author:
MarkoWolfy
Posts: 445


I'd love to think that an announcement is coming tomorrow, but it does not seem likely, I almost guarantee we aren't getting any beta happiness this week.2009-08-25 23:28:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


This is killing me! I really want to try out all my ideas. 2009-08-26 00:29:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710


to be honest i think we all need to sit back and take a breather....seems like we are all freaking out without even knowing when specifically this beta is coming out...

my advice:
check your email everyday....thats it....if you happen to get it then cool, if not then just calm down and wait the next day....we dont know when its coming out so freaking out daily whenever it doesnt come out isnt gonna be good for you in the long run

just calmly wait....we got this suprise of water coming in the first place without our knowledge....so maybe the beta will be just the same and hit you when you least expect it....so lets just wait guys
2009-08-26 00:31:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy
Posts: 3365


NYET!

*eats sanvich*
It could come out at any second! To the email cave!
2009-08-26 00:38:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710


to be honest i think we all need to sit back and take a breather....seems like we are all freaking out without even knowing when specifically this beta is coming out...

my advice:
check your email everyday....thats it....if you happen to get it then cool, if not then just calm down and wait the next day....we dont know when its coming out so freaking out daily whenever it doesnt come out isnt gonna be good for you in the long run

just calmly wait....we got this suprise of water coming in the first place without our knowledge....so maybe the beta will be just the same and hit you when you least expect it....so lets just wait guys

Agreed, worrying will only bring you to your grave sooner.

Just check your emails once or twice daily, and check the forums to see if anyone else has received an email regarding the water beta.
2009-08-26 00:46:00

Author:
BSprague
Posts: 2325


I'd rather go to a watery grave though. So still, NYET!

Do I get messaged by my email I signed up with or my PSN inbox?
2009-08-26 00:51:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710


It would be your email, so make sure you have email notifications activated on your PSN account.2009-08-26 00:59:00

Author:
Matt 82
Posts: 1096


Yeah I did that after I got into the beta so I'm hoping that nothing bad happened there. They really should have instructions on how to though. Or not so other people have a better chance but that wouldn't be very fair.2009-08-26 01:02:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710


I'd love to see you guys freak out when Mm realizes they're engine is incapable of running water online and decide to cancel it.2009-08-26 01:23:00

Author:
Sack-Jake
Posts: 1153


When you get into the beta like this they want you to test it and report anything to them right? What if beta testers dont give any feedback?2009-08-26 02:17:00

Author:
Jrange378
Posts: 573


When you get into the beta like this they want you to test it and report anything to them right? What if beta testers dont give any feedback?

Media Molecule erases all of your levels from your moon, all of your Story Mode progress, trophies, and gives all of your online levels one-star ratings. Oh, and they murder your family.

Just kidding about the first sentence, that would be terrible.

In all seriousness, nothing happens. If you do give them valuable feedback, they reward you with a unique costume I believe.
2009-08-26 02:32:00

Author:
BSprague
Posts: 2325


to be honest i think we all need to sit back and take a breather....seems like we are all freaking out without even knowing when specifically this beta is coming out...

my advice:
check your email everyday....thats it....if you happen to get it then cool, if not then just calm down and wait the next day....we dont know when its coming out so freaking out daily whenever it doesnt come out isnt gonna be good for you in the long run

just calmly wait....we got this suprise of water coming in the first place without our knowledge....so maybe the beta will be just the same and hit you when you least expect it....so lets just wait guys

I'm all for waiting, but I do wish that Mm (or Sony) would at least tell us when it's coming. Even if they say it's out in a month, at least we know.
2009-08-26 02:32:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


I've never been in a beta test with sony, or MM before. so It'll be interesting to know how it works. Are given assignments, and particular aspects to report on?
I suspect that there's alot of down-loading of updated software as it gets tuned.
2009-08-26 02:39:00

Author:
swanbrown
Posts: 898


I've never been in a beta test with sony, or MM before. so It'll be interesting to know how it works. Are given assignments, and particular aspects to report on?
I suspect that there's alot of down-loading of updated software as it gets tuned.

ive done uncharted 2 beta and some others so i can take this one...

basically all they will do is email you the code for you to use in the PSstore in redeem codes option

after you have downloaded it enjoy

as for the feedback i never did it in uncharted 2 because i didnt know why....i just assumed that the ps3 would automatically record my progress in game and send it to sony or something

so thats something you guys could school me in...since i really want that unique costume(assuming giving back feedback does this for you....hoping i get sephiroth ><)

so yeah

TL;DR
beta is a code you use in PSstore to download and enjoy
as for feedback no idea someone help me on that
2009-08-26 03:17:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy
Posts: 3365


NYET!

*eats sanvich*
It could come out at any second! To the email cave!

. . .
How often do you go on the interwebs?

Also, I just realised.
Remember when I said it was just 1 Closed Beta I got into?
It was actually 2, the Second being for Battlefield Heroes.
2009-08-26 09:05:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


There's a private forum in which you post bugs, glitches and so forth, that you will gain access to upon receiving your Email.2009-08-26 14:58:00

Author:
Trevor
Posts: 78


Woah, my heart just skipped a beat, opened up my email to see the words LittleBig....

I was thinking, at last the wait is over...

Turned out to be from these forums... I got a pm..
2009-08-26 16:46:00

Author:
croissantbuncake
Posts: 572


Woah, my heart just skipped a beat, opened up my email to see the words LittleBig....

I was thinking, at last the wait is over...

Turned out to be from these forums... I got a pm..

That's why we take another Millisecond to read the rest of the title.
2009-08-26 18:51:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


That's why we take another Millisecond to read the rest of the title.

I also got a similar message. It's heartbreaking.
2009-08-26 19:07:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


Woah, my heart just skipped a beat, opened up my email to see the words LittleBig....

I was thinking, at last the wait is over...

Turned out to be from these forums... I got a pm..

Back in September, I had just filled out the IGN form and several people from here had already gotten their codes from them, which made me almost die when I saw an email pop up on google talk about LittleBigPlanet, only for me to find it was a friend request >_<. Stupid muttjones...

And I has to wait till Monday because IGN had to take the weekend off... >_<

Sigh... anyway...

Um... wait, this is off topic? D:

Anyway, I wish I wasn't in teh beta... I would give it away if I could... <_>
2009-08-26 19:33:00

Author:
RockSauron
Posts: 10882


It will be a while.

Sam_Protagonist:

When does the water beta start?

The answer : not yet.

This beta is going to be run in several phases and will start off very small. The first wave of email invitations will not be sent for some time, so please be patient. We'll update this thread with more details once the first wave of invitations are sent.
Link (http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=pod&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=90710#M90710)
2009-08-26 20:02:00

Author:
Syroc
Posts: 3193


It will be a while.

Sam_Protagonist:
Link (http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=pod&view=by_date_ascending&message.id=90710#M90710)



I want to get wet NNNOOOWWW!!!
2009-08-26 20:04:00

Author:
dorien
Posts: 2767


Oh Crud....So only a few dozen will get into the first phase...2009-08-26 20:07:00

Author:
Zwollie
Posts: 2173




I want to get wet NNNOOOWWW!!!

oftopic
jump In the River!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

ontopic
i think that next week comes the first wave :kz:

oftopic
ohyea if you whant water in lbp first you get your LBP cd and grap a bucket of water and throw it on the cd
2009-08-26 20:24:00

Author:
Unknown User


Back in September, I had just filled out the IGN form and several people from here had already gotten their codes from them, which made me almost die when I saw an email pop up on google talk about LittleBigPlanet, only for me to find it was a friend request >_<. Stupid muttjones...

And I has to wait till Monday because IGN had to take the weekend off... >_<

Sigh... anyway...

Um... wait, this is off topic? D:

Anyway, I wish I wasn't in teh beta... I would give it away if I could... <_>

Give it to meh xD.
2009-08-26 20:36:00

Author:
Adam9001
Posts: 744




I want to get wet NNNOOOWWW!!!

I'm really disappointed, to be honest.

When Mm posted that it was going to be "wet" next week (referring to this week) I, and I'd bet many others, thought that the beta was coming this week, or at least next week, and then we get hit with this.

Bah. This is just like the LBP Beta all over again, and there's no way I'm going through that rubbish again.

Forget it. I don't even care anymore.
2009-08-27 01:19:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


Oh Crud....So only a few dozen will get into the first phase...

if thats true then wouldnt we be guaranteed a spot since we registered early? i mean i know registrations are closed but the way it sounds like....makes it sound like those of us who got in early will get the beta and the others will just have to wait longer for the closed beta or "2nd" wave
2009-08-27 02:42:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy
Posts: 3365


Hopefully its not first come first serve2009-08-27 03:56:00

Author:
Jrange378
Posts: 573


I leave for one week and this is what happens!!!!
Oh I have to say Peru is far better then this Beta... What a beautiful country...
I highly recommend you tear yourselves away from LBP and come visit, esspecially with these guys (I know I?m advertising but they deserve it)
http://www.peruandeanexperience.com/
I?m currently staying at their house after spending the last week and a half all over Peru with the amazing help of Javier. They are a local group who give you a far better, truer, more informative and safer tour of many places in Peru. The money they earn goes straight to building a school for the children of Cuzco. They are the most selfless, caring and lovely people you will ever meet.
On topic - Water...yay!
2009-08-27 05:37:00

Author:
adlingtont
Posts: 321


I didn't even get a proper vacation...it's nearly 6 years since the last time I saw the sea...and I would really bath at least in the LBP waters...2009-08-27 07:31:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


i always see the sea. Wait no thats rain lol. now i live on the west coast of england in cumbria so i'm right by the sea.2009-08-27 09:23:00

Author:
robotiod
Posts: 2662


I have recently gotten word that a friend of mine has recieved a Beta Key for the Waterbeta.
I really don't want to believe it.
2009-08-27 13:29:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


I have recently gotten word that a friend of mine has recieved a Beta Key for the Waterbeta.
I really don't want to believe it.

I'm not going to believe it until we either get word from Media Molecule that Phase 1 has started, or until a reputable member here says they've gotten one.

A sketchy friend of a forum member isn't concrete proof.
2009-08-27 13:43:00

Author:
BSprague
Posts: 2325


I'm not going to believe it until we either get word from Media Molecule that Phase 1 has started, or until a reputable member here says they've gotten one.

A sketchy friend of a forum member isn't concrete proof.

I know that.
But she has a pretty serious background.
2009-08-27 14:25:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


I know that.
But she has a pretty serious background.

Sorry but NO-ONE has received any emails yet.
http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=pod&message.id=90710#M90710
2009-08-27 15:56:00

Author:
mnimmo1986
Posts: 552


Yep they have to announce it.2009-08-27 16:01:00

Author:
KQuinn94Z
Posts: 1758


Sorry but NO-ONE has received any emails yet.
http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=pod&message.id=90710#M90710
Absolutely correct. I just confirmed with Media Molecule that nobody who has applied has received an email into the water beta. Don't freak out yet guys - wait until you're 100% sure they've sent out the emails first!
2009-08-27 16:14:00

Author:
ConfusedCartman
Posts: 3729


Absolutely correct. I just confirmed with Media Molecule that nobody who has applied has received an email into the water beta. Don't freak out yet guys - wait until you're 100% sure they've sent out the emails first!

How will we know, though?
I thought you weren't allowed to discuss being in the beta?
2009-08-27 17:10:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


I think you're allowed to say if you're in the beta. But you can't really go any further than that.

Thats right isn't it? Or have I messed up again?
2009-08-27 17:30:00

Author:
Leather-Monkey
Posts: 2266


OH EM GEE! I GOT IN!


yayyyyyyy!
2009-08-27 18:10:00

Author:
kodymcq
Posts: 281


OH EM GEE! I GOT IN!


yayyyyyyy!
*sigh (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=p=273969#post273969)*


I think you're allowed to say if you're in the beta. But you can't really go any further than that.

Thats right isn't it? Or have I messed up again?
That's right. If you get an invitation email into the water beta, you are completely free to say that you're in the water beta. However, you're not allowed to share details about the water with anyone outside of the test group. If you do, you risk being removed from the beta and being banned from future beta tests.

Just a note guys: If you post about being invited (which I can almost guarantee won't happen today), I'll simply PM you and ask you to share a detail or two about Water that only true participants are aware of. If you can't answer truthfully, you'll be banned from this site until the beta invites actually go out. Falsely claiming that you were invited not only shows your (rather sad) need for attention, but you're also simply stirring up unneded irritation and anger amongst everyone else.
2009-08-27 18:17:00

Author:
ConfusedCartman
Posts: 3729


dang.

my prank was ruined by a confusedcartman.
2009-08-27 18:22:00

Author:
kodymcq
Posts: 281


Ok, thanks for the confirmation, I'll be sure not to make that mistake again.2009-08-27 18:24:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


Hey CC you can ask me and i can answer you i swear totally serious2009-08-27 18:25:00

Author:
Flare Skull
Posts: 216


That's right. If you get an invitation email into the water beta, you are completely free to say that you're in the water beta. However, you're not allowed to share details about the water with anyone outside of the test group. If you do, you risk being removed from the beta and being banned from future beta tests.

Ah, Ok.
Thanks.
2009-08-27 18:36:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


i thust lost my interest in the water beta i dont know why

i got a question
the guys that are coming in this beta wil they have entrace to the next one???
2009-08-27 19:06:00

Author:
Unknown User


i thust lost my interest in the water beta i dont know why

Me too. I'm just going to wait until it's out now.
The more hype you give something, the more disappointed you become, anyway.
2009-08-27 19:22:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


I'd still rather be disappointed-but-entertained than just sitting around twiddling my thumbs......2009-08-27 20:23:00

Author:
Memodrix
Posts: 879


Hey CC you can ask me and i can answer you i swear totally serious

Congratulations on being in an apparently incredibly small minority, if in fact you aren't heading straight for a ban.

When did you apply for the water beta, was it within minutes of it's release, or was it not as soon? I'm just trying to figure out if it's random, which it very well might be.
2009-08-27 21:22:00

Author:
BSprague
Posts: 2325


Congratulations on being in an apparently incredibly small minority, if in fact you aren't heading straight for a ban.

When did you apply for the water beta, was it within minutes of it's release, or was it not as soon? I'm just trying to figure out if it's random, which it very well might be.

It's already been said by Mm that it will be a random drawing.
2009-08-27 21:25:00

Author:
mnimmo1986
Posts: 552


Any idea's when the beta selection will take place or has it taken place? I'm rather confused :S2009-08-27 21:50:00

Author:
Arikardo
Posts: 158


Patch is supposed to hit tonight.

EDIT: Sorry... I guess that was last night? I suppose it's already up. I'll go take a peek.
2009-08-27 22:33:00

Author:
Teebonesy
Posts: 1937


Patch is supposed to hit tonight.

EDIT: Sorry... I guess that was last night? I suppose it's already up. I'll go take a peek.
what patch?
2009-08-27 22:39:00

Author:
oldage
Posts: 2824


Sorry, my mistake, i thought you were talking about the release of the beta itself, not the emails. I can't quite figure out whether or not all the emails were sent, but I do know that they've officially launched the water beta, so people are splashing about right now...

Anyone else know any details on the emails?
2009-08-27 22:42:00

Author:
Teebonesy
Posts: 1937


Any idea's when the beta selection will take place or has it taken place? I'm rather confused :S

Well i don't think the beta isn't starting for another week or 2, it could be any time before then.

I also read somewhere that new people will be added for each stage of the beta, so if you don't get in first time then more invitations could be sent over the following weeks

Seriously though you should all stop worrying about it, you're just hyping it up for yourselves!
I did the same with the OC beta and i just ended up a bit disappointed when i did get in xD
2009-08-27 22:42:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100


Sorry, my mistake, i thought you were talking about the release of the beta itself, not the emails. I can't quite figure out whether or not all the emails were sent, but I do know that they've officially launched the water beta, so people are splashing about right now...

Anyone else know any details on the emails?

They haven't launched the beta, read the previous page. Mainly this link:

http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=pod&message.id=90710#M90710


No e-mails will be set for some time.
2009-08-27 23:01:00

Author:
Harryup1
Posts: 7


They haven't launched the beta, read the previous page. Mainly this link:

http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=pod&message.id=90710#M90710


No e-mails will be set for some time.

Ah, my mistake. I saw some posts elsewhere that confused me. So yeah, I guess they are going to be taking their time with this one. Too bad they aren't able to give some clear dates. I practically gave up on Fat Princess, I was waiting on it for so long without any info. When it finally came out I just kind of shrugged.
2009-08-27 23:21:00

Author:
Teebonesy
Posts: 1937


To be honest I doubt water will be any more then a ?water level?within your level and not actually done physically so that it can be poured and things like that.2009-08-27 23:28:00

Author:
adlingtont
Posts: 321


Thanks for clearing that up for me Harryup1

I really can't wait for the Water Beta. I hope I manage to get in!
2009-08-27 23:28:00

Author:
Arikardo
Posts: 158


To be honest I doubt water will be any more then a ?water level?within your level and not actually done physically so that it can be poured and things like that.

True, i'm not even sure free-flowing water would be possible

That doesn't mean there isn't a ton of new gameplay possibilities though!

I hope we'll get some free-flowing water decorations though. So while we can't interact with it we can create the illusion that it's free flowing
2009-08-27 23:40:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100


I've heard that although the emails for the new registrants have not been sent, the ones who were in the OC beta already have access to the water beta.2009-08-27 23:56:00

Author:
Astrosimi
Posts: 2046


Hmmmm I guess we won't know until it's all over and been released seeing as the people involved in the Beta aren't allowed to talk about what they are doing/seeing.

I'm really excited about this, it seems like something so basic yet so brilliant and innovative.

I just want to build a pirate level with water and a floating ship, then I will be happy
2009-08-28 00:59:00

Author:
Arikardo
Posts: 158


I've heard that although the emails for the new registrants have not been sent, the ones who were in the OC beta already have access to the water beta.

Doesn't seem likely... surely someone would've said.
2009-08-28 01:12:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


Congratulations on being in an apparently incredibly small minority, if in fact you aren't heading straight for a ban.

When did you apply for the water beta, was it within minutes of it's release, or was it not as soon? I'm just trying to figure out if it's random, which it very well might be.

Im not looking for trouble or anything ......anyways.....if im lying CC can ban me permanently and ban my I.P. Address as well....
2009-08-28 01:24:00

Author:
Flare Skull
Posts: 216


Hmmmm I guess we won't know until it's all over and been released seeing as the people involved in the Beta aren't allowed to talk about what they are doing/seeing.

I'm really excited about this, it seems like something so basic yet so brilliant and innovative.

I just want to build a pirate level with water and a floating ship, then I will be happy

Bet you someone will release some videos on youtube. No matter how hard Mm or any one try if there?s a public beta there will be leaks.
2009-08-28 01:36:00

Author:
adlingtont
Posts: 321


Im not looking for trouble or anything ......anyways.....if im lying CC can ban me permanently and ban my I.P. Address as well....

So you're really in?

When does it start?
2009-08-28 02:10:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


Bet you someone will release some videos on youtube. No matter how hard Mm or any one try if there?s a public beta there will be leaks.
Well, that's not totally true. The Online Create beta has been live for a long time now and, to my knowledge, no videos or even screenshots have leaked. I'm sure you would have seen them on LBPCentral if they did.
2009-08-28 02:35:00

Author:
ConfusedCartman
Posts: 3729


Well, that's not totally true. The Online Create beta has been live for a long time now and, to my knowledge, no videos or even screenshots have leaked. I'm sure you would have seen them on LBPCentral if they did.

But online create isn't really something to record, they can't just record a blank level and them making a couple ghetto objects? MAG has been out for not long and already videos on YouTube like theres no NDA.
2009-08-28 03:24:00

Author:
Kobe24Life
Posts: 150


But online create isn't really something to record, they can't just record a blank level and them making a couple ghetto objects? MAG has been out for not long and already videos on YouTube like theres no NDA.

But do you know if they're on an NDA or not? Regardless, when you join these things, you keep your mouth shut...

... and enjoy what other's aren't.
2009-08-28 05:43:00

Author:
gevurah22
Posts: 1476


Im not looking for trouble or anything ......anyways.....if im lying CC can ban me permanently and ban my I.P. Address as well....

ok you heard the man CC....start the 3rd degree and a polygraph

lets see what this sir is up to
2009-08-28 07:40:00

Author:
Shadowcrazy
Posts: 3365


All I gotta say is I hope I get into this beta... Most of my friends are in OC, and it kinda sucks to be left out. I mean, I almost gave up on LBP, but the whole water thing has sparked my interest again. I hope I'm not hyping myself just to be disappointed.2009-08-28 07:45:00

Author:
TheJollyRajah
Posts: 466


All I gotta say is I hope I get into this beta... Most of my friends are in OC, and it kinda sucks to be left out. I mean, I almost gave up on LBP, but the whole water thing has sparked my interest again. I hope I'm not hyping myself just to be disappointed.

Indeed, I didn't make that big a deal of the online create as I thought it was going to be very few people.
But it seemed a huge number, almost everyone who applied (and a lot who didn't apply :/), got in wich made my friend list kinda empty when playing LBP.

Well, its pretty much the same these days since it seems the OC testers can already take a swim.

I guess we will see when they start sending e-mails in a few weeks because now that they can already receive feedback by the people who are already in the beta....I'm not sure they will hurry to let the rest of us join.
2009-08-28 08:46:00

Author:
Zwollie
Posts: 2173


Regardless, when you join these things, you keep your mouth shut...

... and enjoy what other's aren't.

Heh, disclose enough information to make people jealous, but not enough to get you in trouble
2009-08-28 08:51:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


Heh, disclose enough information to make people jealous, but not enough to get you in trouble

Remember the history pack thread?
2009-08-28 08:56:00

Author:
Zwollie
Posts: 2173


Indeed, I didn't make that big a deal of the online create as I thought it was going to be very few people.
But it seemed a huge number, almost everyone who applied (and a lot who didn't apply :/), got in wich made my friend list kinda empty when playing LBP.


Thanks for that Zwollie. That makes me feel even worse now because I applied and never got in. I feel like the only one who didn't now.

I've never got in a beta in my life and probably won't this one. I think that's because I'm always finding bugs. I've emailed Mm loads of times since LBP came out about variuos bugs I've found but I can't think of one that's actually been fixed yet.

A typical example is the captured objects being invisible in your popit. That's been happening for months now. It happened only last night when mrsvista made something for her very first level and it's got nothing to do with profile overload as was suggested previously because mrsv only has about 10 objects in total. She's just learning to create and started by making a few objects to go in her planned level.

Anyway she made a hanging basket last night with flowers on which took a long time ( she's still getting to grips with all the controls ) but when she tried to capture it , it was invisible in the goodies bag. She didn't do anything wrong because I tried several times too with the same result so in the end she just had to scrap it and will have to make it in the actual level.

These are the sort of bugs I find almost every day but no-one seems interested to know or to do anything about them so for that reason I'm guessing I'll never get in a beta of any sort.
2009-08-28 09:01:00

Author:
mistervista
Posts: 2210


Thanks for that Zwollie. That makes me feel even worse now because I applied and never got in. I feel like the only one who didn't now.

So do I, so do I.
Heck, lets start our own little beta: The Unofficial Bughunters.

Me, you, Silverleon we'll blow this right open!!
Did you know there is this thing called "lag" in LBP, no kidding, just discovered it yesterday!!
2009-08-28 09:17:00

Author:
Zwollie
Posts: 2173


LAG ? Is that what you put round pipes ?

LAG ? Can't say I know what that is. I'm sure if it was a problem at all though Mm would have already fixed it
2009-08-28 09:22:00

Author:
mistervista
Posts: 2210


Did you know there is this thing called "lag" in LBP, no kidding, just discovered it yesterday!!

LEAKER!
2009-08-28 09:42:00

Author:
AwesomePossum
Posts: 446


After more than two weeks from the announcement and one week from the sign up, I really lost all the hype.
I don't like at all how this beta (actually every beta) is working.

It's just nonsense.
Given that this is a beta on an added feature, it would have been wiser to pick the best creators around (they showed multiple times to know who they are) and not bother everyone since:
People get multiple accounts
People easily breaks NDAs
Age is not considered
Some countries are basically cut out (Uncharted 2 beta had only 1 Italian guy in it)
Random picking just doesn't make anyone happy, since it's not based on merit and no one can be sure 100% about the random picks.

Betas were better back in the days when people got paid to do them and no one was cut out.
Since with the betas someone gets screwed and it's unfair, since supposedly anyone spent the same money and should have access to the same features at the same time.

End of the rant.
2009-08-28 09:43:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


I read that but why not choose a larger group of...uh....oh! Test subjects. Thats the word.2009-08-28 10:03:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710


@mistervista: You constantly complain about the bugs and issues with this software! Don't get me wrong, I totally understand why they bother you, but my question is: if the bugs in the released software bother you so much, why on earth would you want to get your hands on the buggier version??? Sorry but I just had to ask.


Meh, people can complain about all the hype leading to a let down, but who's actually drummed up this hype. Is it MM with their 2 announcements, or is it the community? If the hype has made you feel let down, then there is only one direction to point the finger....

I'm still stoked for water. It's gonna be awesome. The opportunities I see are just as exciting as the day it was announced (possibly more so becuse I have thought of more). I'd like to be in the beta, but if I don't I can still carry on creating as before. There are still millions of things you could dream up in LBP, without water.

People are acting like we've had water taken away from us.... We haven't lost anything guys.
2009-08-28 10:23:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


rtm, I don't complain about water (AWESOME!), but about how they (not only MM) realize this beta stuff.2009-08-28 10:49:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


Random picking just doesn't make anyone happy, since it's not based on merit and no one can be sure 100% about the random picks.

And yet if Mm selected just the best creators, everyone else would complain that it isn't fair. They can never make everyone happy unless its an open beta.
2009-08-28 12:13:00

Author:
Nuclearfish
Posts: 927


@rtm: Of course I always complain about bugs because they ruin the game for me and lots of other people. That's exactly the reason I want to do the testing. I don't want to rely on other people who never find the bugs or if they do they don't point them out to Mm.

As I've said before I've found loads of bugs that other people say they've never experienced. Therefore what is the point in letting those people give the feedback and telling Mm everything is brilliant when I know full well it isn't.

I want water as much as anyone. I'd love it tomorrow but not if it comes with tons of bugs AGAIN to make the existing problems even worse. I want it tested properly and all bugs removed BEFORE it's released. For that reason the only person I trust to find the bugs and more importantly TELL Mm about them rather than sucking up and saying "yeah it's fine" when it clearly isn't is ME.
2009-08-28 12:22:00

Author:
mistervista
Posts: 2210


And yet if Mm selected just the best creators, everyone else would complain that it isn't fair. They can never make everyone happy unless its an open beta.

No one complained for not having been chosen as one of the 18 creators for the GOTY.
Someone was quite low, but no one was unhappy or complained.


That's exactly the reason I want to do the testing. I don't want to rely on other people who never find the bugs or if they do they don't point them out to Mm.

You're 100% right.
There's people in betas (I repeat not only in this) that didn't even know how to report.
There's people that simply doesn't feel the duty to report, because they're careless, or because they're young.
Bug testing is trying systemathically to break things in ways the devs haven't thought.
I think that a kid in the beta (the age restriction doesn't work at all) will play it for some minutes, since the beta won't have all the features and then drop it.
Random picked Betas are flawed...

Then MM opened it for absolutely everyone.
Most of all the people that play/create at certain levels are here, in the workshop, sackcast and maybe other 2 forums.
It would have been better if they had given the Admins a number of codes to give to the user that really deserves it, more or less like they did with create.
2009-08-28 12:28:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


No one complained for not having been chosen as one of the 18 creators for the GOTY.
Someone was quite low, but no one was unhappy or complained.

But that's completely different.

I know a lot of people were upset because they didn't get in the online create beta, and quite a few who thought it was unfair that people weren't picked randomly. A lot thought that they didn't get in because they haven't published many levels and aren't known on forums.
2009-08-28 12:51:00

Author:
Nuclearfish
Posts: 927


@mistervista, yeah I see. I wasn't attacking you at all and I'm pretty sure you'd make a good beta tester - camped outside MM HQ every morning with a list of fixes needed lol


Regarding the selection process - no matter what method they use, people who don't get in but wanted to are going to say it's unfair. Even if you pick "good" creators - who selects the worth of those creators? On what factors is it judged - popularity, artistic merit, originality, speed of level production...? None of these qualities that can be inferred from someone's levels are indicative of someone who will be good at testing.

Random is the only fair way.
2009-08-28 12:59:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


Regarding the selection process - no matter what method they use, people who don't get in but wanted to are going to say it's unfair. Even if you pick "good" creators - who selects the worth of those creators? On what factors is it judged - popularity, artistic merit, originality, speed of level production...? None of these qualities that can be inferred from someone's levels are indicative of someone who will be good at testing.

Random is the only fair way.

It's not a full game played before the release.
It's not something to enjoy just for selfish pleasure.
It's a beta.
The people who gets in has responsabilities towards all the community to find the bugs.

I hope at least one between mistervista and Silverleon enters the beta, since they can really crack everything, since I know that it coulb be better for anyone.

It's "unfairer" for all the community if they picks at random people who won't beta test the game well.
2009-08-28 13:18:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


I really hate that BETA's are always so widely advertised. If they weren't I wouldn't get in many myself but neither would people not dedicated to the game. It's not like you can stop people from learning though.2009-08-28 14:27:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710


Thanks for your support OmegaSlayer.

To everyone talking about it being fair/unfair who gets in , it's not that I'm concerned about at all because that's purely subjective anyway. The only thing I'm interested in is that people get in the betas who are actually determined to use it as it's meant to be used i.e. for finding any and every fault that may arise in any given scenario and report back so that the developers can hopefully rectify the faults before release.

Unfortunately too many people seem to want to get in the beta just so they can have access to something early and get 'bragging rights' over everyone who didn't get in. Yes I know whatever system they use to select the testers that's always going to happen but they should at least temper that to some degree by also choosing some people directly who they know will give honest and reliable feedback. I'm sure they must know a few people like that.
2009-08-28 16:05:00

Author:
mistervista
Posts: 2210


You hit the bullseye, with better words than mine MrV.
Surely they have the OC beta tester and that liften my feelings.
The point is...do they need all those other people?
I don't know...maybe not, so what's the point in picking other people?
Maybe yes, so what's the point in picking them randomly?

Either way someone gets screwed and...I quite don't like it.
2009-08-28 16:17:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


Actually, if everyone in on online-create beta already have water... I can't understand why they would even have to open it up to more testers unless they wanted to create hype. Realistically LBP has been going strong or building momentum for some time now... Mm having to rush out its' product in order to meet deadlines may turn-out to be the best marketing strategy ever.2009-08-28 17:05:00

Author:
Gravel
Posts: 1308


The only thing I'm interested in is that people get in the betas who are actually determined to use it as it's meant to be used i.e. for finding any and every fault that may arise in any given scenario and report back so that the developers can hopefully rectify the faults before release.

MrV, I can't speak for everyone, but I assure you that I'm going to use the time allocated to test everything as much as possible - and write everything down and submit problems accordingly.
2009-08-28 17:20:00

Author:
MrsSpookyBuz
Posts: 1492


MrsSpooky, we know who you are, like we know who wex, ConfCartman, Ninja, xKappax, Morgana, gevurah and the others are, and we are really conforted by that.2009-08-28 17:38:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112


Guys: the beta hasn't even started yet! The same thing happened with Online Create - everyone went from ecstatic to cautious to realistic and it put everyone in a bad mood. There are so many unknowns at the moment that there's no point in getting yourself all worked up. We don't know how many people are going to be picked, we don't know if Mm is going to give fansites a few invites to hand out like last time around, and, hell, we don't even know when the beta starts! I say cool down and shift back over to cautious optimism. There's no point in counting your beta invites before they hatch. 2009-08-28 18:12:00

Author:
ConfusedCartman
Posts: 3729


We were explicity told to keep schtum regarding the details, but what I think I can safely tell you without getting into any trouble is that Online Create has now been updated with the water features. Like I say, I'm not able to divulge details, and I'm sure there may be a few problems, but having spent only a few hours with the new 'toys', I honestly think you'll be delighted. Some of the elements are truly amazing.

OMG! You've played around with the water?! LUCK! *faints*

wait, whats the point in making a water beta if the online create folk already have it.
2009-08-28 18:27:00

Author:
MarkoWolfy
Posts: 445


wait, whats the point in making a water beta if the online create folk already have it.

Create hype/Expand bug finding force would be my guesses.

Below is in spoilers because I know people will read it and not realize I'm joking.

Mm is going to give fansites a few invites to hand out like last time around

Misquoted for emphasis.

But that would be pretty swell.
2009-08-28 18:28:00

Author:
BSprague
Posts: 2325


we most thust wait til it releases 2009-08-28 19:02:00

Author:
Unknown User


[quote=MrsSpookyBuz;274816]

My post is no longer necessary.
2009-08-28 20:04:00

Author:
Silverpanther
Posts: 156


That kinda stinks if I don't get in, as I was invited to the OC beta but, was on vacation at the time and my code expired before I got home.2009-08-28 20:09:00

Author:
Trevor
Posts: 78


Guys: the beta hasn't even started yet! The same thing happened with Online Create - everyone went from ecstatic to cautious to realistic and it put everyone in a bad mood. There are so many unknowns at the moment that there's no point in getting yourself all worked up. We don't know how many people are going to be picked, we don't know if Mm is going to give fansites a few invites to hand out like last time around, and, hell, we don't even know when the beta starts! I say cool down and shift back over to cautious optimism. There's no point in counting your beta invites before they hatch.

You keep saying that when it's true, and I'll keep wiping the fear sweat off of my brow.
2009-08-28 20:31:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


I think my Ears just Gamma Growled.
In other words, that little slip up Silverpanther claims you have made has only troubled me.
No worries though, I'll just treat them to some Drum and Bass.
2009-08-28 20:35:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


Editing the post won't make us forget.2009-08-28 20:37:00

Author:
Kobe24Life
Posts: 150


Editing the post won't make us forget.

They'll probably barge into our homes and use that Memory Erasing Flash thing on u...

---

What was I just typing?
2009-08-28 20:39:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


They'll probably barge into our homes and use that Memory Erasing Flash thing on u...

---

What was I just typing?

http://www.thechangelab.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/mib-memory-flash.jpg

What Memory Erasing Flash thing?
2009-08-28 20:45:00

Author:
Kobe24Life
Posts: 150


Men in sack.2009-08-28 20:48:00

Author:
BasketSnake
Posts: 2391


Men in sack.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p222/Aragarof/mib-memory-flash.jpg


What men in sack?
2009-08-28 20:51:00

Author:
Kobe24Life
Posts: 150


http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p222/Aragarof/mib-memory-flash.jpg


What men in sack?

You could have at least made an effort to edit it better.
I'll do something clever later.
2009-08-28 20:56:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


You could have at least made an effort to edit it better.
I'll do something clever later.

Haha, I lost my Adobe Photoshop so I couldn't do much with Paint.
2009-08-28 21:08:00

Author:
Kobe24Life
Posts: 150


That... looks... PHENOMENAL! I can't wait for it to be properly released, I doubt I'd have got into the beta.2009-08-28 21:08:00

Author:
Bear
Posts: 2079


Actually, if everyone in on online-create beta already have water... I can't understand why they would even have to open it up to more testers unless they wanted to create hype.

Well you'd say it was unfair if the original beta testers were the only ones allowed to participate in every future beta test

And it wouldn't really make sense for Mm to get rid of the current testers if they did a good job the first time!

They're just trying to give everyone a chance to get in
2009-08-28 21:13:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100


I hope that the original beta testers can get in

waited for 6 hours on 1up for a darn code .____.

Yeah, I love LBP... A lot
2009-08-28 21:23:00

Author:
Aurongel
Posts: 221


*cryss with fear* i hope it comes out in the next week, i really want my bro to get it,2009-08-28 21:31:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078


*cryss with fear* i hope it comes out in the next week, i really want my bro to get it,

and you self than
2009-08-28 21:44:00

Author:
Unknown User


*cryss with fear* i hope it comes out in the next week, i really want my bro to get it,

do you mean come out as in for everyone or as in the beta?
2009-08-28 22:23:00

Author:
Flare Skull
Posts: 216


It does sort of irritate me that the people in the OC beta get instant access to the Water beta.

I just wish everyone had to apply.
2009-08-29 01:34:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


It does sort of irritate me that the people in the OC beta get instant access to the Water beta.

I just wish everyone had to apply.

Most of the testers of the Online Create; IE Morgana, CCubbage, wexfordian, xkappax (to name a few) really deserved to be in as they were outstanding creators and bugfinders. I'm pretty sure they'd get in too if they applied for the Water Beta.

Besides, Mm is just opening the doors for more people, not closing them!

Where's all the love?? </3
2009-08-29 04:15:00

Author:
AwesomePossum
Posts: 446


I think people aren't upset that everyone but themselves will fail to test the water well enough, I think they are just upset that they'll be behind the game when the water is finally released (as those in the beta will know all the little tricks already).2009-08-29 04:23:00

Author:
comphermc
Posts: 5338


*throws comphermc a flameshield*


edit. Looks like i was jus in the nick of time. U owe me one buddy.
2009-08-29 08:00:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


*throws comphermc a flameshield*

Chill man, take a dip.
Put out the fire.
2009-08-29 09:55:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


I think people aren't upset that everyone but themselves will fail to test the water well enough, I think they are just upset that they'll be behind the game when the water is finally released (as those in the beta will know all the little tricks already).

Well you obviously didn't read my post correctly then or are you simply calling me a liar !!

The failing to test properly is exactly what I'm worried about becasue they've failed with everything in the game up to now.

I'm sick to death of having loads of problems and bugs that crash my game or lose me data or just make playing the game incredibly difficult or frustrating hence the only way I can see to stop this happening in future is to test it myself.

I'm a great believer in the old adage " If you want a job doing well do it yourself "
2009-08-29 10:32:00

Author:
mistervista
Posts: 2210


Be nice if everyone who signed up for the Beta got in. It would only make some people happy I suppose. Go on tell me the problem with a community with the majority happy. I mean it, I know someone will point it out. I think I know it too now.2009-08-29 10:54:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710


@neonrage. I think you completely misunderstood my post... The fire has nothing to do with me, i was just looking out for a mate 2009-08-29 10:57:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497


The failing to test properly is [B]exactly what I'm worried about because they've failed with everything in the game up to now.


That's a bit harsh isn't it?

You shouldn't worry too much anyway there's quite a lot of good bug testers in the beta, and there should be a lot of bugs to fish out when the water beta starts

I still hope all of you guys get in though, you'd be a great addition!
2009-08-29 11:03:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100


hmmm yea mistervista, the beta testers are humans too, not bug finding robots.2009-08-29 11:15:00

Author:
oldage
Posts: 2824


If you had the entire world bug testing LittleBigPlanet before release, I'm sure they wouldn't catch every single bug. If you zoom out your perspective and view LittleBigPlanet as a whole, it's most likely one of the most complicated console games ever designed. Media Molecule gave us an object, tool, or material for almost everything, and every single one of them can interact. They have to make sure that every crazy combination of doing things is going to work, which is nearly impossible. I personally can't be too hard on Media Molecule for pesky minor bugs because they still gave us this game, in all it's complexity.

@MisterVista
I have no doubt that you would be a great beta tester, but even with you on the force, the update would still likely release with minor bugs and problems that nobody saw.
2009-08-29 12:01:00

Author:
BSprague
Posts: 2325


I think people aren't upset that everyone but themselves will fail to test the water well enough, I think they are just upset that they'll be behind the game when the water is finally released (as those in the beta will know all the little tricks already).
I agree with this totally, most people just want a piece of the action before anyone else. I think it makes them feel important, or something..

Beta's are always open to a limited amount of people, get over it. It's not the end of the world.
2009-08-29 12:03:00

Author:
Kiminski
Posts: 545


@neonrage. I think you completely misunderstood my post... The fire has nothing to do with me, i was just looking out for a mate

I understand that.
But we're talking about water, how could there be a Flame War, get the pun?
2009-08-29 12:39:00

Author:
neonrage0
Posts: 284


I don't really think that being in a beta means you have to spend hours and hours desperately trying to find all the bugs. Mm have their own testing depertment for that who get paid to do it.

Really the point is to get a lot of people playing it, most likely as they would normally, by creating levels, and if they stumble across any bugs then they report them. I've found with the OC beta that a lot of problems presented themselves through playing normally rather than going out your way looking for them.

And anyway, I'm more of a feedback person than a bug finding person. A lot of the waterbeta will be suggesting how features could be improved.
2009-08-29 14:10:00

Author:
Nuclearfish
Posts: 927


and you self than

maybee

@flareskull: i mean the beta
2009-08-29 14:29:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078


I'm back.
Has it started?
2009-08-29 14:55:00

Author:
ARD
Posts: 4291


I'm back.
Has it started?

Not yet. I reckon either a week or 2 (probably Thursday since they update the stores then.)
2009-08-29 15:04:00

Author:
AwesomePossum
Posts: 446


Most of the testers of the Online Create; IE Morgana, CCubbage, wexfordian, xkappax (to name a few) really deserved to be in as they were outstanding creators and bugfinders. I'm pretty sure they'd get in too if they applied for the Water Beta.

Besides, Mm is just opening the doors for more people, not closing them!

Where's all the love?? </3

Don't get me wrong, I think they deserve to be in it. In fact, all the great creators out there do. But, you know... just giving it to them, after they already got one beta that many didn't? It seems like a bit of a slap in the face to everyone who applies and doesn't get in.

Still, that said... I guess it's better the seasoned creators get the new tools because they're most likely to make the best stuff and find the bugs to make it better for the rest of us.
2009-08-29 15:25:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


Don't get me wrong, I think they deserve to be in it. In fact, all the great creators out there do. But, you know... just giving it to them, after they already got one beta that many didn't?

It's technically just phase 4 of the same beta, they're just inviting more people because they're adding something new (and potentially a lot more buggy).
2009-08-29 15:31:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100


It's technically just phase 4 of the same beta, they're just inviting more people because they're adding something new (and potentially a lot more buggy).

Yeah, I guess.

Don't mind me... I'm just irritated we haven't heard more.

Especially now it's been added for the OC Beta crowd.

Maybe next week
2009-08-29 15:35:00

Author:
alexbull_uk
Posts: 1287


It's never coming out! I'm never gonna get in! *tears*

In all seriousness, i think it was put in the OC beta to see how it would react in an online problem.

The Water Beta is probably for offline working and bug-findings.
2009-08-29 15:55:00

Author:
MarkoWolfy
Posts: 445


It's never coming out! I'm never gonna get in! *tears*

In all seriousness, i think it was put in the OC beta to see how it would react in an online problem.

The Water Beta is probably for offline working and bug-findings.

But they're both the same beta!!

There's only one
2009-08-29 16:03:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100


i think what the most unfair thing is that as far as i can tell there doesn't seem to be any control... like someone could lie about there age when technically they want adults to do it because they have a better chance of seeing it to the end2009-08-29 16:24:00

Author:
Kern
Posts: 5078


Don't get me wrong, I think they deserve to be in it. In fact, all the great creators out there do. But, you know... just giving it to them, after they already got one beta that many didn't? It seems like a bit of a slap in the face to everyone who applies and doesn't get in.


But if they have done a good job so far with the OC BETA, why on hell would you like that Mm do not ask them to continue?
2009-08-29 16:27:00

Author:
Takelow
Posts: 1355



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