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New Switch Discovered in Water Trailer

Archive: 58 posts

www.sackcast.com

ananmoua (PSN mattbru77) has found the true use of the little switch on the boat in the water trailer through careful observation. I think it's safe to say that he's spot on. If you look at the trailer you can see, as he said, that the light on the switch turns as soon as the switch is submerged under water. You can only see it for a split second, but it's undoubtedly there.

So, what do you guys think of a switch that detects above/below water? Any ideas how it can be used? Do you think there will be other new switches included in the pack, relating to water?

Also, I just want to point out that the last time we got a new switch was Creator Pack 1. So this lends to the idea that this will indeed be Creator Pack 2. But who knows...

2009-08-20 23:28:00

Author:
hilightnotes
Posts: 1230

Nice find!

Idea: This evil kid is blocking the door to the next room and will only open the door (dissolve) if you push a cat (with this switch) into the nearby pool. 		2009-08-20 23:46:00

Author:
persona3fan93
Posts: 155

Nice find, i'll keep an eye out for it next time i watch the trailer

Also i'm pretty sure that this won't be Creator Pack 2 stuff.
I think it'll be a water themed pack with suitable decorations/backgrounds and the new tools.
Or maybe it'll be a water themed Creator Pack 2 		2009-08-21 00:05:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100

Nice find, i'll keep an eye out for it next time i watch the trailer

Also i'm pretty sure that this won't be Creator Pack 2 stuff.
I think it'll be a water themed pack with suitable decorations/backgrounds and the new tools.
Or maybe it'll be a water themed Creator Pack 2

Please please please underwater level pack. I'd pay and start play LBP again.		2009-08-21 00:07:00

Author:
Walter-Kovacs
Posts: 542

I'll tell you what the switch is. It's a "My boat will sink if I don't have this switch on it." switch. 2009-08-21 00:40:00

Author:
Unknown User

A switch that activates once underwater? An interesting proposition. Of course, it could also be a gadget that makes things float or somethin' else.2009-08-21 00:51:00

Author:
SLS10
Posts: 1129

I'll tell you what the switch is. It's a "My boat will sink if I don't have this switch on it." switch.

Eh right, this is a possibility!
A sensor switch that could prevent things to go under water (like we can choose the maximum under water limit)
and it could allow to make float some big or heavy material stuff (like a big pirate ship....)
There would be a problem of balance though...

who knows... 		2009-08-21 00:52:00

Author:
dajdaj03
Posts: 1486

dajdaj03 has some good ideas. There could be loads of possibilities with this switch!2009-08-21 01:00:00

Author:
DanC
Posts: 433

I doubt it'll be a "make things float" switch, a switch that changes the weight properties of something doesn't really seem like something you'd see in lbp.
I'm not saying it's a strictly realistic game but it does like to keep quite accurate physics

And sadly (for some) i don't think this will be a level pack!
Remember they said in their podcast that levels take 10 weeks to finish, i doubt they've been holding back on this feature for that long
It's quite an exciting new feature even for them, i bet they'd want to get it out as quickly as possible!		2009-08-21 01:05:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100

I doubt it'll be a "make things float" switch, a switch that changes the weight properties of something doesn't really seem like something you'd see in lbp.

Yeah you're surely right, it was just a thought....
but it will be frustrating if only little objects made of light materials can float...		2009-08-21 01:12:00

Author:
dajdaj03
Posts: 1486

To dajdaj03 and trickster233 . . .

That's exactly what I was saying. As that is a very likely possibility.

To Dexiro . . .

Actually, you are forgetting that how would someone make a large metal ship float since the physics would take effect on it? You would need something to keep it afloat, because heavy objects do float on the water in certain situations.

I honestly think I'm on to something here, or something similar.		2009-08-21 01:16:00

Author:
Unknown User

So, what do you guys think of a switch that detects above/below water?

"ZOMG!!11!!!!!!11"


Any ideas how it can be used?

My head is practically exploding with the posibilities, this is amazing.


@s3xNstilettos: If it was a tool to float your boat, so to speak, wouldn't it be a device, like a creature brain or other, not a switch with a light on. That is clearly detection going on there - the only things we have in this game that light up like that are detectors that output a signal - think consistant interface.

This is a logistician's wet dream (geddit?)


ideas for useage (beyond the obvious):
1. Drowning creatures 		2009-08-21 01:26:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

Yes s3xNstilettos,
that's why I quoted your previous post, what you suggested is a smart idea.... 		2009-08-21 01:27:00

Author:
dajdaj03
Posts: 1486

To Dexiro . . .

Actually, you are forgetting that how would someone make a large metal ship float since the physics would take effect on it? You would need something to keep it afloat, because heavy objects do float on the water in certain situations.

I honestly think I'm on to something here, or something similar.

Heavy objects can float in real life, but it's almost impossible to create realistic water physics in games.
In LBP it will simply detect the weight of the materials, instead of things like the amount of air contained within it and other factors that affect buoyancy in real life.
(I barely know what i'm talking about here but i'm 100% sure they'll of kept it simple in this game )

Anyway if you want a large metal ship to float then you can always make it out of a lighter material and sticker it. I mean do any of the metal materials look like what you'd find on a large boat?
You could also create the illusion that the boat is floating, by using rods and stuff.		2009-08-21 01:35:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100

As for making a boat of non-floating materials function using this switch as a "water line", that wouldn't be that hard at all, I don't think.

Go search "physicslike" and play his tech demo level that has a 6-pronged vehicle on the icon.

You could adapt darkmatter-emitting technology like that to create sinking prevention while still allowing for pre-determined directional movement ...

... at least I don't see why you couldn't.

Trigger into logic, logic into darkmatter emitter, darkmatter emitted into a hidden slot that defines in which ways the boat can and cannot move.		2009-08-21 01:56:00

Author:
Jagrevi
Posts: 1154

Anyway if you want a large metal ship to float then you can always make it out of a lighter material and sticker it.

I'm wondering if big objects made of lighter material still can float...?

When we make a big block of card board or sponge, at a certain size, it become too heavy so sackboy can't grab and move it anymore...
So are the water physics based on the size and weight of objects also or just on the type of material...? (a very big cardboard block can still float?)		2009-08-21 02:03:00

Author:
dajdaj03
Posts: 1486

Hmm i'm not sure if large amounts of light objects would float, i suppose we'll have to wait until it's released to find out how it works.

Either it works like an on/off switch - where sponge always floats by itself and metal always sinks, although that could get complicated.
Or it just depends on the weight of the object.		2009-08-21 02:05:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100

Not too excited about this, can't you just make the same mechanism with a magnetic switch? Personally I'm not really excited about the switch, I don't find myself using it as often as the other switches.

I guess this is quite different, but I'd like to something more useful.

However, water will still pwn.		2009-08-21 02:11:00

Author:
AwesomePossum
Posts: 446

Not too excited about this, can't you just make the same mechanism with a magnetic switch? Personally I'm not really excited about the switch, I don't find myself using it as often as the other switches.

I guess this is quite different, but I'd like to something more useful.

However, water will still pwn.

You can't do this with a magnetic switch because you'd need one of the switches to move with the water level 		2009-08-21 02:18:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100

You can with two floating points, spread apart to get a wide base, but then you'd only get certain coverage etc etc. It's doable, but hassle. This on the other hand, is just awesome.2009-08-21 02:21:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

To rtm223 . . .

I don't think so because a light would make sense because it detects the water, like a line. For example, when the switch is submerged the light is on showing that the switch is active (Just like how a magnetic switch lights up when active). When active it keeps the object afloat, might even have a strength setting on it so that when it activates can give the object a bounce of varying strength, so depending on what is making your boat move you can easily give the effect that the boat is buoyant so the boat can slowly be moving with the water in a realistic way, or bounce across the water at high speeds, which would depend on the settings of this switch (not saying the switch makes the boat go as you might have to do this part yourself, not sure). So let's say the switch was somewhere high on the boat, then the entire boat might be submerged up to the switch, but will stay just below the surface.

To dajdaj03 . . .

I know that's why you quoted me. I was just saying.

To Dexiro . . .

That's exactly what I'm saying. And sure you can create the illusion of floating, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't have a buoyancy switch of sorts, or water line switch if that's a better word.

So technically what I'm saying is that this switch will not go under water, so anything attached to it would stay above. But, the switch could be something completely different. Who knows.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
OMG OMG OMG!!! OH OH OH!!! LOL!!! It could be a switch like any other switch that activates when it detects water, much the same as a magnetic switch activates when it detects the key. So the fact that it's attached to the boat does not mean it is effecting the boat at all or has anything to do with buoyancy.		2009-08-21 03:14:00

Author:
Unknown User

I'm not sure exactly what you're saying Nstilettos, but what the switch quite clearly appears to do is detect when it's underwater or above water. If you watch it in the trailer it seems to pretty clearly do just that.

However, you could technically use this as a buoyancy tool maybe... perhaps if the switch was underwater you could have it set to emit a floaty material below the boat so that it stays up.

As for how things will float, I'm guessing regular physics will apply. If you have a huge piece of cardboard spread out over a large surface area, it will likely float, but if you have a huge block of cardboard that doesn't cover much surface area it will sink. Remember, back when LBP was first released people actually calculated how heavy each material was, so I imagine it isn't that hard to simply apply it to create floating/sinking calculations.		2009-08-21 04:32:00

Author:
hilightnotes
Posts: 1230

Who says there isn't both? If you look on the side of the boat - in addition to the "switch" mentioned here, there's also a jet/rocket thing on the side, unless that's a decoration I'm unaware of, then I think it works in the same way of a rocket, but it works in the water, (Keeping afloat, and propelling it forward)2009-08-21 05:23:00

Author:
L0l_L0l-
Posts: 139

I think L0L is going in the right direction; I always did wonder how we were going to propel boats and objects (rockets could spin it out of control)...2009-08-21 05:53:00

Author:
goldenclaw13
Posts: 224

I personally think the switch will determine how the water will keep the material afloat.

Think of it as a magnet(not a magnet switch).Instead of changing the weight of the material,it repels the water when the two are near each other.I'll make a level to explain.		2009-08-21 07:05:00

Author:
CyberSora
Posts: 5551

I personally think the switch will determine how the water will keep the material afloat.

Think of it as a magnet(not a magnet switch).Instead of changing the weight of the material,it repels the water when the two are near each other.I'll make a level to explain.

That's exactly what I was saying.

To hilightnotes . . .

What do you mean you're not sure what I'm saying. You repeated exactly what I was saying, silly.

To LOL . . .

As I said, it might make the boat go also, but not sure.

To goldenclaw13 . . .

There are lots of ways to make a boat go. You can have it attached to a rod or piston (more realistic with piston to give boat a buoyant effect) or what not and have a rocket on it at the same time. So the rocket wouldn't effect the boat any, but is there to make it appear that the rocket is making it go. But there are tons of ways you can make it move.		2009-08-21 08:54:00

Author:
Unknown User

I'm wondering if big objects made of lighter material still can float...?

When we make a big block of card board or sponge, at a certain size, it become too heavy so sackboy can't grab and move it anymore...
So are the water physics based on the size and weight of objects also or just on the type of material...? (a very big cardboard block can still float?)

Well, in real life physics there's the risk of the cardboard soaking up the water and then disintegrating and sinking, but I doubt LBP will be that accurate.

Actually, the reason stuff floats in real life is not it's total weight or size, but whether it weighs less than the water it displaces. A ball of solid metal weighs more than a same-size ball of water, but a ball of polystyrene weighs less, and so does a hollow ball of metal, if the surface is thin enough.

So in theory, you could make a floating metal ship in LBP by hollowing it out, but I expect water would "leak in". But if you fill it up with floaty material, there's no room for the water, and it might become light enough.

Anyway, to me it seems LBP mechanics work in the simplest, most elegant way, so since floating and sinking is already supported in the phycics engine (lighter than water is the same as lighter than air, but with a different boundary), I don't think there will be a make-it-float switch. I'm with the original poster here, I think the boat floats by itself, and the switch simply detects water and switches on the engine to make it go.		2009-08-21 09:55:00

Author:
Rogar
Posts: 2284

Switch definitely activates when underwater so it still could be a floaty tool but I think that I'd prefer to just have a sensor rather than a manipulator with built in sensor.

I'd still like to see a dummy floaty tool where you placed it on an object and it drew a horizontal line so you could determine how much of the object you want underwater.

Also I hope that since we'll be seeing a lot of free standing building (balancing with physics and not using supports like glue on a pole) so that we can have objects bobbing there might be a 'keep this way up' manipulator. Things didn't seem to topple in the trailer but if there was a manipulator already in there then I would've thought they'd keep it visible.		2009-08-21 21:01:00

Author:
Shermzor
Posts: 1330

I noticed this today too2009-08-21 21:55:00

Author:
BasketSnake
Posts: 2391

I'd still like to see a dummy floaty tool where you placed it on an object and it drew a horizontal line so you could determine how much of the object you want underwater.

Same here, as I've said, that is what I think it is. It's a good guess, although you put it in much better words. And when it detects the water and the light goes on the object is prevented from sinking below the detection line.		2009-08-21 22:12:00

Author:
Unknown User

Same here, as I've said, that is what I think it is. It's a good guess, although you put it in much better words. And when it detects the water and the light goes on the object is prevented from sinking below the detection line.
That's what it looks like to me too. 		2009-08-21 22:36:00

Author:
Lord_Vile71
Posts: 60

that's really cool. It opens up the gameplay possibilities with the water. Now water can cause stuff to change and welcome to puzzles!!

.		2009-08-21 23:23:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

I don't think there will be a buoyancy tool. Nope.
LBP is realistic enough to know what should float and what shouldn't.
I'm pretty sure that it's just the water level adjuster that just so happens to be on the boat.		2009-08-22 23:55:00

Author:
Sack-Jake
Posts: 1153

I'm going with the OP and saying it's just a censor that detects if it's above/bellow the water level

Very interesting......Can't wait 		2009-08-23 00:21:00

Author:
dorien
Posts: 2767

thats briliant. man i cant wait for water and all the sack-tanic(titanic) and plane crashes in the water levels. oh great new switch idea. a ship sunck and you have to releace it to the surface to unlock the next section of the level oh and werid idea if you place an electriyed object in the water dose the water become deadly2009-08-23 07:39:00

Author:
dmigetson
Posts: 21

In case any one can not quite see it i got a screen shot of it http://img14.imageshack.us/i/lighto.png/2009-08-23 10:45:00

Author:
Unknown User

In case any one can not quite see it i got a screen shot of it http://img14.imageshack.us/i/lighto.png/

superb red X there. 		2009-08-23 23:26:00

Author:
RangerZero
Posts: 3901

superb red X there.

Looks more like a shredded piece of paper with some shapes on it to me...		2009-08-23 23:33:00

Author:
Shermzor
Posts: 1330

Mabye its not a swich, just a light? but i hope its somthing that can change the water level, like the global lighting object thing changes the light 2009-08-26 17:04:00

Author:
Schwem00
Posts: 255

The switch is probably there to make the object float, or idk, maybe make it sink. We just have to wait and find out when the water comes out.2009-08-26 17:59:00

Author:
LEW_jeane
Posts: 46

I don't think there will be a buoyancy tool. Nope.
LBP is realistic enough to know what should float and what shouldn't.
I'm pretty sure that it's just the water level adjuster that just so happens to be on the boat.

This could be very right. It's all good guesses, though I am leaning more towards a water line/detection/float sort of tool. But it could very well be a water level adjuster.

So much anticipation my little sack hands can barely wait. 		2009-08-30 21:49:00

Author:
Unknown User

i think this device is a "make things float" someone said think of the creature brain, well, think of what they use too walk. a leg, or a wheel. you put one leg on a HUGGEEE block of stone, if it is standing upright, it will stay on that wheel. This "makes things float' indeed is very possible2009-08-30 23:20:00

Author:
SlinkDewar
Posts: 70

Well the bot is skipping on the water so I'd say it makes it float which has something to do with buoyancy.2009-08-30 23:26:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710

kewl there will probally also be a motor and other kewl stuff2009-08-31 05:38:00

Author:
ViDi--ViCi
Posts: 123

I can't view the video right now, but does it activate once the water lifts the boat off the ground? Couldn't it just be a magnetic key and switch?2009-09-01 04:13:00

Author:
TheMarvelousHat
Posts: 542

A switch that detects whether it's above or below water would be great... and maybe necessary for a OoT Water Temple level. Which there will be.

EDIT: And as for only certain (maybe ugly) materials to be able to make boats... I'm sure the pack will come with materials included specifically for boats/water.		2009-09-02 13:13:00

Author:
TripleTremelo
Posts: 490

If there isn't a tool to make things float you could always whip up something like this to make it look like it bobbing up and down. Bored paint drawing here:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/136/boatn.jpg		2009-09-02 13:51:00

Author:
Snappyguy
Posts: 710

Unless you make the boat entirely out of metal or something it should still float.

It's really weird seeing a load of people still speculating when other people already know how it all works xD		2009-09-02 14:05:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100

@dex: I was thinking the same thing a couple of days ago. It's probably quite amusing to them, seeing us all blindly guessing

I know I'd be dropping in on these threads just to watch the speculations if I knew the answer 		2009-09-02 14:11:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

I'm tempted to tell you how that boat works but i'm trying to be careful about my NDA this time xD

You can work it all out from the video anyway 		2009-09-02 14:15:00

Author:
Dexiro
Posts: 2100

Oh yeah I forgot you were already in. Good choice on keeping schtum though

I'm happy to wait and see, the speculation is fun in the meantime. As for working it out from the video... you do have the benefit of hindsight - like in the films when you watch the second time through, and all the hints become oh-so-obvious. First time through all the theories make sense 		2009-09-02 14:21:00

Author:
rtm223
Posts: 6497

The boats made of cardboard or something light I think(I just looked at trailer again). That's how it floats probly.2009-09-03 18:50:00

Author:
Unknown User

If there isn't a tool to make things float you could always whip up something like this to make it look like it bobbing up and down. Bored paint drawing here:

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/136/boatn.jpg

Of course you'd have to make the wheels under some ground and a part covering it, so if the player sinks doesn't see it.		2009-09-03 21:38:00

Author:
Adam9001
Posts: 744

It's clearly a sensor that detects whether it is underwater or not. Manually altering properties of materials is too much work to program, I'd imagine.2009-09-03 22:48:00

Author:
SLS10
Posts: 1129

Here's a screenshot of the switch.
http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t4/MarioFan222/waterswitch.png
As you all know, it lights up when underwater. I speculate it'll work just like any other switch, with the usual on/off, direction, one-shot, and speed. (maybe depending on how close to water you are?) Also, of course, inversion and perhaps, if the water's the way I think it could be, (though hard to program) depending on which body of water you go in to. For example, you have a lake at point A and a river at point B. Let's say you want to take the fish from the river to the lake. You could put a water switch on him and set it to a unique color, for example, a yellow switch would go to the yellow pool of water. The water wouldn't be yellow in play mode, but when you hover over it in create mode it'd glow yellow a little bit. But you could also have switches to control what color it is visibly.		2009-09-03 23:54:00

Author:
Project_MK
Posts: 80

im thinking that the particular switch was attached to the boats mysterious propulsion system.

it tells it to slow down/speed up if its under the water? to make boat look nicer?

then there was that part where the boat exploded and sank, that may be a switch to do something AFTER the crash.		2009-09-19 02:39:00

Author:
mattbru77
Posts: 143

Well, it's yellow and black just as the scuba gear is which may mean it keeps things afloat
Yeh it's not a very good explanation but that's the best I got xD		2009-09-19 04:09:00

Author:
Ricano
Posts: 434

im thinking that the particular switch was attached to the boats mysterious propulsion system.

it tells it to slow down/speed up if its under the water? to make boat look nicer?

then there was that part where the boat exploded and sank, that may be a switch to do something AFTER the crash.
I guess it's attached to a thruster and it turns it on if it's under water and off it it's over water.		2009-09-21 13:46:00

Author:
Robber
Posts: 46


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