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Why, oh why does everyone need a intro?!
Archive: 110 posts
| /cut to blank screen /please wait /huge letters appear *Syroc presents!* /letters fly out /please wait /a new text appears is garish colours *A rant!* /writing fades away /wait a few seconds /background dissolves /thread appears I have been playing more user created levels lately. And the one thing that bugged me most was that every other level seems to have a intro these days. Why do people do that? I just clicked on your level. Do you think I have forgotten what is called? And if I have and really wanted to know I'd press start. Unless the level wasn't actually made by you you don't need to tell me again who made the level. If I really care - and I usually don't - I look at your other levels anyway. I don't want to sit there waiting for half a minute just so I can see a presentation that is most of the time incredibly uncreative. Just because you've seen it in the MGS pack doesn't mean you have to incorporate it now as well. Also, while I'm here, stop with the levels starting in a room, be it a bedroom or a prison cell or anything else. Especially if the room you made look like every other room ie, one bed (usually placed on the second layer on the left side and wardrobe or similar a bit to the right of the bed and placed on hindmost layer). Save your thermometer space for some fun gameplay please don't waste it on a dull presentation or a room we have seen a thousand times. /end rant Sorry, I had to say that. :-) | 2009-08-14 18:22:00 Author: Syroc  Posts: 3193 |
| lol - point taken. I like intros though. Lets you settle into a levels look and gives you an idea what your in for (if they're done well.) I think it also can show that the level creator took the time to introduce it and that the level should be of better than average quality (I'm generalizing of course and it's not guaranteed) Just a difference of preference when you boil it down though. I like visuals. I like gameplay too but I'll trade section or two of platforming for a section or two of nice visuals. Coxy: just squeaked in before you  sorry and I have a title area and repetitive opening section for continuity of levels in the series..... not an epic awesome cinematic experience like Wex or Grant or CCubbage for that matter. | 2009-08-14 18:27:00 Author: Morgana25  Posts: 5983 |
| Personally, I haven't used one (yet anyway.....) but I do enjoy a good intro. Grant's recent level for example had a brilliant intro which helped add to the level. Also Wex has been doing it for some time and I love his intro's. EDIT - and Morgana's of course who's just appeared above me! I think it may be in some cases because people are copying, but it's more likely because it adds an extra minute or so to an otherwise lengthless level. I'm not sure exactly why it's done - but tonnes of great levels have them  | 2009-08-14 18:27:00 Author: Coxy224  Posts: 2645 |
| /cut to blank screen /please wait /huge letters appear *Syroc presents!* /letters fly out /please wait /a new text appears is garish colours *A rant!* /writing fades away /wait a few seconds /background dissolves /thread appears Hahahaha, brilliant. Yeah it doesn't really bother me that much - it's prob something I'll never do, but meh. | 2009-08-14 18:28:00 Author: rtm223  Posts: 6497 |
| Im not knocking the past levels with the intro, BUT it is PLAYED OUT. | 2009-08-14 18:30:00 Author: CENTURION24  Posts: 266 |
| I was thinking about this when creating my latest level. I didn't want to put an intro in but I felt I should, or else it wouldn't be accepted with all the other cool levels. When people first started to do it, it wasn't so bad. But now it does annoy me, I want to play the level, not sit back and watch it. However if you do what mrsupercomputer did in Manufacted Madness (sorry I keep mentioning that level), I think its fine. Infact its more than fine, I really like it! For those who don't know what he did, he put his name and the levels name up on billboards and sign posts, and you can read them as you run past, instead of being forced to sit back and read them. | 2009-08-14 18:30:00 Author: Leather-Monkey  Posts: 2266 |
| Done well, they are great intro into the level, and providing you keep the material and decoration theme, add little to the thermo actually. Wex and Cub do them really well. Done bad, they are'nt good at all, having to sit through something that is'nt attractive or intresting gives you a bad taste in the mouth before the playing even starts | 2009-08-14 18:34:00 Author: GruntosUK  Posts: 1754 |
| Yes, yes, I don't hate them all. The third (or fourth) Sci-Fi world by mdaj for instance had a cool one. It's mostly those uncreative intro during which you slowly move downwards behind a wall of metal and the old "blahblah presents" "Generic war level No.138" appears. Interactive intros are perfectly fine with me. Running/jumping/swinging past the name of the creator and the level name is fine, if done creatively. | 2009-08-14 18:34:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193 |
| I have never made an intro, but I do like the creative ones. Argh! Essay! Must... write... now! | 2009-08-14 18:36:00 Author: moleynator  Posts: 2914 |
| i include the option to skip my intros. and i hope my intros are of value, telling the story. | 2009-08-14 18:42:00 Author: Deftmute  Posts: 730 |
| while it doesn't really annoy me, intro sequences rarely impress me now. if somebody did something other than scrolling text, fair enough, but a lot of them are very similar. I personally tend to avoid including them as they slow the intro right down can make repeat plays a bit of a slog. I tried to do something a little different in eddy mitter, where the text is just there without a fanfare and disappears when the player activates a cutscene. however the only person who commented on it at all mentioned that I should've made it like all the others  I should mention mrsupercomputer's most recent level which had the intro as part of the scenery. a refreshing take. | 2009-08-14 18:43:00 Author: Matt 82  Posts: 1096 |
| I Use Intro's! Lol... My new intro is really completated. it tells a story about this kid. It takes about 2 minutes though. Lol | 2009-08-14 19:06:00 Author: XHaveNoMercyX  Posts: 124 |
| I can't really say I'm a big fan of them. Yeah they were impressive when they were new. But to me they're just a gimmick, I don't really think they add much to a level other than 'looking cool', and that's only if they've been done well. Mrsupercomputer's in Manufactured Madness was great, it wasn't a cut scene, it was pretty small, you just ran past it. That's all good, it doesn't stop me getting on with the game in anyway. I can't say I'd ever do them. They've been done to death now really. | 2009-08-14 19:21:00 Author: jackofcourse  Posts: 1494 |
| *quickly goes into create and removes new intro* Ahem, yeah done to death, people really should'nt do them  | 2009-08-14 19:26:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754 |
| Yeah, intros - when they're done well, they can be a great attention-grabber and the 'money shot'. When done badly, they can be quite painful. | 2009-08-14 19:28:00 Author: MrsSpookyBuz  Posts: 1492 |
| What about outro's? I'm gonna create a level that is just scrolling credits, detailing everything little thing about Mars Attacks, I'll be the first. And most likely last...... | 2009-08-14 19:32:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754 |
| Meh I hate the "it's been done to death" thing. 95% of the platforming hazards I see are done to death, 95% of the puzzles I see, I've solved the same problem before. How many creators are really trying to push back the boundaries of what can be achieved and really innovating? Some, but most aren't even trying. Pretty much everything has been done to death in LBP, it doesn't mean that when it's done well it isn't deserving of credit. If you're gonna use the done to death argument you may as well stop playing LBP and videogames altogether. [/rant] Grantos, you could switch it up and have an outro, but at the beginning of the level and then just work backwards, reassemble the boss, lock the doors, turn off the power. If you really push in all the stops it could work well... | 2009-08-14 19:32:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| *quickly goes into create and removes new intro* Ahem, yeah done to death, people really should'nt do them ROFL - That's exactly how I feel reading this thread. I have just wrapped up one part of a two part level, and have put an intro sequence into both parts. Nothing special, but I thought rather effective - and my first time doing so. Now y'all have got me thinking... "Hmmm... perhaps that thermo could be better spent..." Oh well... I like 'em so they're stayin'. @ Syroc: I hope ya won't hate my levels when I release them just cuz of my intro's. Hopefully you'll hate them for the bad platforming, stupid puzzles, and ugly design. | 2009-08-14 19:36:00 Author: v0rtex  Posts: 1878 |
| @ Syroc: I hope ya won't hate my levels when I release them just cuz of my intro's. Hopefully you'll hate them for the bad platforming, stupid puzzles, and ugly design. LOL - don't believe that for a second dear readers - it's actually very cool..... at least what I've seen of it. | 2009-08-14 19:40:00 Author: Morgana25 Posts: 5983 |
| I always make an introductive sequence to my levels since "SpaceOpera". It is a way to give the player a time to be merged in the level atmosphere. For exemple, in my Bearer series, the intro of each level is done on the same scheme (the book, the bearers pannel) and use the main materials and types of lightings you will find in the level. Personnaly, i feel that a level is not complete if there not any introductive element... And finally, which is the videogame that do not use an introductive sequence? | 2009-08-14 19:48:00 Author: Takelow  Posts: 1355 |
| @Rtm, a level like memento, you've got me thinking now @vortex, leave it in. I'm certainly not stripping mine out. Some people just like to whinge | 2009-08-14 20:05:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754 |
| If done well, an intro can be a nice addition... if not, then its dull =/ I know i hate having to wait for the race gate to start, if the intro doesn't offer me something entertaining to do/look at, i probably won't enjoy it much either. In other words, an intro that consists just of _____ presents, _____, no special effects, just plain writing, is a boring elevator ride. Anything else is fine by me. | 2009-08-14 20:51:00 Author: Burnvictim42  Posts: 3322 |
| @ Syroc: I hope ya won't hate my levels when I release them just cuz of my intro's. Hopefully you'll hate them for the bad platforming, stupid puzzles, and ugly design. Heh, I could be persuaded by pretty checkpoints arty stickers on point bubbles. Maybe!  Which reminds me; I had the idea back in the beta to use the same checkpoint style in all my levels. Something easily recognisable. I guess that never happened. Probably was a bit silly. Does anyone do something like that? Use a "trademark" object in all his levels. And now I'm dragging my own thread off-topic. Edit: Seems there is already a thread for that question here (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=10735). Thanks Matt82. | 2009-08-14 21:19:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193 |
| Heh, I could be persuaded by pretty checkpoints arty stickers on point bubbles. Maybe! Which reminds me; I had the idea back in the beta to use the same checkpoint style in all my levels. Something easily recognisable. I guess that never happened. Probably was a bit silly. Does anyone do something like that? Use a "trademark" object in all his levels. And now I'm dragging my own thread off-topic. if you have a look through my created threads. you'll find one called 'director's trademark' that might be of some use to you. can't link to it as I'm on ps3, but if you don't bump it, I might. there have been a load of arrivals to the site since then. | 2009-08-14 21:24:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096 |
| Done that. :-) Go here to discuss your trademark. (https://lbpcentral.lbp-hub.com/index.php?t=t=10735) | 2009-08-14 21:35:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193 |
| I like introductions to levels, most of the time. GrantosUK is a great example, his most recent level features a very detailed, elaborate intro scene. It isn't too long to be annoying, but it still sets up the background for it. The only time that introductions actually bother me are if I have to restart the level many times and go through it over and over and over again. It becomes tedious. I've seen some people implement it so that you can grab R1 and it will basically skip it. It isn't easy to implement for every level, but it is a great feature to have. | 2009-08-14 21:39:00 Author: BSprague  Posts: 2325 |
| Surely an intro sets you deep in the level, but I think that they're really thermo expensive, and I don't think I'll ever cut gameplay to put an intro in my levels. | 2009-08-14 22:02:00 Author: OmegaSlayer Posts: 5112 |
| Yeah, 'done to death' probably was a bit strong, I apologise My point is that they've been done that much now that on the whole they've lost that 'wow' factor. There's not that 'something special' about them that there once was. Now an outro on the other hand....that could give it the twist it needs! Although I'm not sure on the 95% of platforming has been done to death thing...that's not really comparable. Jumping and grabbing and the bare essentials of this game, to compare that to a intro cut scene doesn't seem quite right to me. | 2009-08-14 22:06:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494 |
| As true as it is that an intro isn't so 'special' anymore, does that mean it shouldn't be done? Probably every movie you'll see has the title at the beginning. Sometimes it's done in an innovative way, sometimes it's just there. I feel that it is a good idea to have an intro in any level that is attempting to have any kind of cinematic feel or storyline. That said, it's always better when it's done in an innovative way rather than just a boring text thing. | 2009-08-14 22:10:00 Author: hilightnotes  Posts: 1230 |
| As true as it is that an intro isn't so 'special' anymore, does that mean it shouldn't be done? Probably every movie you'll see has the title at the beginning. Sometimes it's done in an innovative way, sometimes it's just there. I feel that it is a good idea to have an intro in any level that is attempting to have any kind of cinematic feel or storyline. That said, it's always better when it's done in an innovative way rather than just a boring text thing. I think that's what people are saying now. It's not that they're all bad. Of course some of them are fantastic, Gruntos' for example. But the majority of them now are just there for the sake of it, and Syroc demonstrated how they work perfectly in his first post... | 2009-08-14 22:13:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494 |
| About 1 out of 4 levels i see have intros so its not annoying to me. | 2009-08-14 22:19:00 Author: JKthree  Posts: 1125 |
| Meh, creators can do whatever they want, i know im going to have an intro to my new level. Although it wont be just scrolling text. Mgs4 had a title screen before each act, we didnt forget what act it was, we didnt care that it had been done in every movie, game, etc. Why not do them in levels? | 2009-08-14 22:26:00 Author: Jrange378  Posts: 573 |
| Hate intros; I want to just play the level! Intros are thermo space that could've been used on making a level better; they need to be **** amazing to please me. I'm talking bullets flying past the screen, an injured soldier trying to search for his arm and a medic struggling with giblets trying to put them together. Saving Private Ryan basically... then your level | 2009-08-14 22:26:00 Author: Shermzor  Posts: 1330 |
| For me, it all depends on the level. With many of my levels there's no introduction, and on "Destiny!" there is only a short segment which is necessary to tell what's going on. In "Starship Troopers" and "Vertigo!" there ARE introductions.... but only because I was able to fit them into gameplay I already had in mind (I saw this big empty space while flying to earth in Starship troopers, and figured I'd fill it with an introduction, and in Vertigo! I already had the beginning (necessary for timing the start of the wheel) so I put a sticker in. In both "Mars Attacks" from GrantosUK they were just as entertaining as the game itself. I THINK Wex, being in marketing, knows the value of name recognition, which is why he does it. Players start to recognize his name and play his levels when they're released. | 2009-08-14 22:36:00 Author: CCubbage  Posts: 4430 |
| Never done an intro myself, doubtful I ever will. My thermo's too precious to waste on optional extras. If I did make one, I'd only end up deleting it so I could squeeze my ending in. I have seen a few cool intros, but I'd rather see the efforts put into the level tbh. | 2009-08-14 22:36:00 Author: Kiminski  Posts: 545 |
| beqause intros are cool | 2009-08-14 22:41:00 Author: Unknown User  |
| lol... i LOOOOOVE intros 2 deth!!! 4 mee the intro sets u up and letz u know wat to expect before u play tha level. and it introduces the level in a flashy way instead of just being introduced by some lame custom sticker. itz like the creators signature!!! i dont know... thatz just me. i feel like the level iz not 100% complete unless there iz a FLASHY EYE GRABBING CUSTOM INTRO, UNRIVALED AND UNIQUE GAMEPLAY, and an AWESOME ENDING that no one else can duplicate. sure it takes up thermometer... but i think the intro iz well worth it if done right. but saddly the last level i published had a good intro with a lame ending. sorry... i got lazy. =P | 2009-08-14 22:51:00 Author: mdaj  Posts: 119 |
| Someone needs a hug.... Just kidding. I see your point though. I prefer to see them reserved for EPIC levels or movie trailer style levels promoting an actual level that's been release or in the works. | 2009-08-14 22:56:00 Author: Rustbukkit  Posts: 1737 |
| As some people have mentioned, I did create one in my most recent level, but mostly because I felt that it meshed with the scenery. Plus, I loved the billboard idea, so I couldn't resist. I doubt I will use them in future levels though (unless it seems appropriate or cool). That said, I don't mind when creators use them... as long as they aren't too long. I prefer the ones that don't restrict your movement and let you run right past them, but a short cut scene is usually okay. | 2009-08-14 23:44:00 Author: mrsupercomputer  Posts: 1335 |
| It's cool when playing multiplayer and your not the host cause it saves the trouble of pausing to find out what the epic level is called/made by so you can heart it later Sometimes it looks great and blends in with the theme of the level, I started to through in a "springs" in my latest creations but never made a level intro | 2009-08-14 23:52:00 Author: springs86  Posts: 785 |
| As some people have mentioned, I did create one in my most recent level, but mostly because I felt that it meshed with the scenery. Plus, I loved the billboard idea, so I couldn't resist. I doubt I will use them in future levels though (unless it seems appropriate or cool). That said, I don't mind when creators use them... as long as they aren't too long. I prefer the ones that don't restrict your movement and let you run right past them, but a short cut scene is usually okay. I love that intro. It is perfect and completely the opposite to most levels. They have massive usernames and you have a tiny little sign post. Awesome. | 2009-08-14 23:57:00 Author: moleynator Posts: 2914 |
| Ya i agree, its always the same. mr. blah proudly presents blah blah blah blah bla the tale of the blah | 2009-08-15 00:05:00 Author: Incinerator22  Posts: 3251 |
| /cut to blank screen /please wait /huge letters appear *Syroc presents!* /letters fly out /please wait /a new text appears is garish colours *A rant!* /writing fades away /wait a few seconds /background dissolves /thread appears I have been playing more user created levels lately. And the one thing that bugged me most was that every other level seems to have a intro these days. Why do people do that? I just clicked on your level. Do you think I have forgotten what is called? And if I have and really wanted to know I'd press start. Unless the level wasn't actually made by you you don't need to tell me again who made the level. If I really care - and I usually don't - I look at your other levels anyway. I don't want to sit there waiting for half a minute just so I can see a presentation that is most of the time incredibly uncreative. Just because you've seen it in the MGS pack doesn't mean you have to incorporate it now as well. Also, while I'm here, stop with the levels starting in a room, be it a bedroom or a prison cell or anything else. Especially if the room you made look like every other room ie, one bed (usually placed on the second layer on the left side and wardrobe or similar a bit to the right of the bed and placed on hindmost layer). Save your thermometer space for some fun gameplay please don't waste it on a dull presentation or a room we have seen a thousand times. /end rant Sorry, I had to say that. :-) Awesome. I alway wanted to put out this rant by I was lazy... . | 2009-08-15 01:21:00 Author: RangerZero  Posts: 3901 |
| I did it once but it was because I didn't just want to drop people into the level since it was a survival challenge. I like intros if they're done well, the best ones were made by mdaj and GruntosUK. Another one I really liked was by PacJonno on Medieval Times since it was so simple. | 2009-08-15 03:14:00 Author: brnxblze Posts: 1318 |
| Sometimes I like intro's. Though I hate it when if feels I'm not doing anything and forced to wait on those huge signs or the drops. I don't mind a fly by if there is something happening like in Mars Attacks 2. I also liked it in Starship Troupers as well as mrsupercomputers billboards on his latest. I ended up making an extro in my recent level. I didn't plan on an intro, but since I couldn't finish it the way I planned because of thermo. I was forced to a 2nd episode and so the extro seemed like a good transistion to say, "This one is done... next one coming soon". | 2009-08-15 03:50:00 Author: jwwphotos  Posts: 11383 |
| I don't really like it like in a lot of levels with an elevator or something, but I don't mind just running by a logo or something. Why do you care so much? | 2009-08-15 04:09:00 Author: qrtda235566 Posts: 3664 |
| I've only seen very few levels that make the introductions look really cool, these include wexfordian's levels, the Sci-Fi World levels, and GruntoUK's latest level. I know alot of people are saying they liked the intro in Manufactured Madness, but I don't think it's really as special as people say it is. I personally prefered what poms did in The Bunker, it was really simple but combined with the music it really turned into something unique. | 2009-08-15 04:19:00 Author: TheFirstAvenger  Posts: 787 |
| I really liked the intro in Phife's "The Tribe" level. It was simple and unique. If done correctly, an intro can add to the feel of the level, but it's important that it not be thrown in for the sake of it's own existence. I just don't want to wait 30 seconds for a poorly crafted, out of place intro... | 2009-08-15 04:29:00 Author: comphermc  Posts: 5338 |
| I personally don't like intros. I always thought it was a type of advertising. I made this level! See me! Thats my name right there! In my personal opinion i think it acturally ruins the game somtimes. I look at the description and the comments on the level, and I wait around 5 mins for the level to load and then when i finally get to play...... a 3min intro!? Grrr! My hype is gone now....... I'm currently working on a level where the introduction isn't IN YOUR FACE kinda. It's just a sticker in the background or words poping up while you go accross platforming. I'm giving the player the option to look at it or he/she can just continue on platforming. It also adds a bit to the atmosphere and a little extra to put in the background if you run out of things to put there. In conclution, i think intros are good as long as they blend into the level or background instead of having a IN YOUR FACE kinda view. | 2009-08-15 06:45:00 Author: snowyjoe  Posts: 509 |
| yeah... iz true! it sux peepolz make u watch their looong intros... and i think im notorious for long drawn out intros! but i worked VERY hard on mine! and dangit... ill make u watch em!!!!!!!!! =P but as a consolation, i make em very interesting and very complex. any expert creator would appreciate the artistry and mechanics that make em work. and if u dont, then u must most definately be a noob, and ur opinion does not matter. hehe.... sorry if i make any1 mad... oh well. lol! =P | 2009-08-15 07:05:00 Author: mdaj Posts: 119 |
| I agree. I just find this annoying and unecessary. On LBP we usually expect instant action.. Not cinematics. Just want to say that out, for those whos planning on making intros :| --------------- And it seems to me its more of a bragging rights if they put their name in the intro :|. | 2009-08-15 09:25:00 Author: Count  Posts: 315 |
| On LBP we usually expect instant action.. Not cinematics. YOU expect instant action! What is good with LBP, is that actually, you can't wait anything in LBP. And imho, it is why this game is so interesting. I personnaly didn't understand why some says "I don't like intro!". I think this so absurd! There is so much different possible forms of introductive sequence. Some i did loved, some i didn't loved... | 2009-08-15 10:05:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355 |
| What Takelow says tis true. You can't judge the majority by only looking at the minority. But we all seem to do it sometimes >.< There are probably amazing introductions out there.... I just havn't seen them yet | 2009-08-15 12:19:00 Author: snowyjoe Posts: 509 |
| The only way I can hate an intro is if it's done badly, which is rare. So generally, I don't mind them. Especially if it's Sci-Fi World | 2009-08-15 22:19:00 Author: KoRnDawwg  Posts: 1424 |
| I don't LEIK peoplez saying bwad thingz abwout introz. I gotz one in mah new levelz | 2009-08-15 22:30:00 Author: Coxy224 Posts: 2645 |
| Well, here I'm not gonna bother reading the thread and say "Intros are Good" Unless, of course, it's impassible in a survival challenge. I made that mistake on my first survival challenge...never. | 2009-08-15 23:03:00 Author: crazymario  Posts: 657 |
| I don't my reasons expressed by much people that don't like it. Looks like I will share mine. To me it feels like a repetition. It's also egoistic and out of place. Probably a deformation related to our ego somewhere far into our psychology. The name of the level and the other are easy seen when you cycle through the puck and when you click on one. To me, this is enough. I know how to read and I do read. If there's a level intro telling the stuff again, it's useless annoyance. As for the ego part. A title and credit at the beginning gives the feel the level is a little game on its own. It looks "official" and consciously or not, this is why we probably do this. Well, I think its just a bad trend. I pretty much equate it to people with clothing when they are wearing brands before wearing their taste. We are in a world of branding, credits, copyrights, recognition and hyper-communication. This search of distinguishing ourselves, trying to have trademark and look "official" like pros is simply depicted through those LBP levels you play. It's easily explained and normal. Can be explained through psychology. Reality is: It's just level. It's not another game. Nobody is more official or pro than another one. Artists don't care anyways about all that jazz, they create to express themselves first. If regognition does come on top of that, cool. If not, the artist doesn't care that much and continue to express himself. So while it's an annoyance or not depending your personality, it still is annoyance. I soooo wish human ego would disappear and that people would become more spiritual and loving. I would love archaic systems like capitalism to fall. I would like people stop seeing value in non-sense like a branding. I would like to walk into HMV and there's no Britney Spears and popular radio crap designed by formulas written and proven by business mans out there. I would love to leave in an artistic world of expression, fraternity, love and altruism but it's not the case. I live with it. | 2009-08-15 23:10:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901 |
| RangerZero, you big hippie! | 2009-08-15 23:32:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494 |
| I think we may have to agree to disagree on this one. Many people consider their levels works of art, mini movies etc which they spend countless days on for your enjoyment. So I am all for placing an intro as I feel it does separate our work especially if its a story telling level from the countless thrown together "other levels" out there. If one places an intro its not an ego or superego thing if you want to talk psychology. Its pride in one's work. If you don't place intros for your work hey thats cool as well. As said above yes we can read the title of the level before we enter but whats different from watching a movie in the theater or at home. Surely we didnt forget what we were watching in the first place when the intro rolls around. If you cant stand watching an intro which averages at most 10-20 seconds not 2-3 mins as some referred to thats unfortunate. I also feel they dont really have to be as complicated as some of the great creators such as mdaj in his science levels to be effective. I dont think its the right attitude to say intros are blagh and should not be done.... except for the special creators. thats not lbp. just my 2 cents. | 2009-08-15 23:45:00 Author: juscallmeJ Posts: 77 |
| The way I see it: "It's LittleBigPlanet, do whatever the heck you want. The End." There, I just stopped all of these RIDICULOUS arguments. | 2009-08-15 23:47:00 Author: crazymario Posts: 657 |
| I like intros, however it's become somewhat of a fad unfortunately. Films have intros and some creators put intros into their levels to give them that cinematic feel. However, giving it a cinematic intro will only work well, in my opinion, if the level is cinematic itself. If it's about a story, characters and/or the events going on around you, an intro adds to that style. I like intros, when they are used in those kinds of level. I am not a fan of long-winded intros in levels of pure platforming or challenges. There is no reason to give these levels that sort of flair, it's just out of place and feels like a cheap gimmick. Now I don't mind if the intros in these kinds of level are a picture or writing in a background. You can run past them and carry on with the level. 20-second long elevator intros in these levels is just stupid. Not only do they look very out of place, but they are going against the substance of the level. It's a platforming level. I want to play the platforming level. Not wait 20 seconds after waiting for the level to load to finally play the level. It's this that makes intros feel like a cheap gimmick. In conclusion: Story-driven/cinematic levels - intros are a yes. Play-based platforming levels - intros are generally a no. | 2009-08-16 00:05:00 Author: persona3fan93  Posts: 155 |
| The way I see it: "It's LittleBigPlanet, do whatever the heck you want. The End." There, I just stopped all of these RIDICULOUS arguments. Of course you are welcome to do whatever you want, we aren't arguing how "free" you are in LittleBigPlanet. We are arguing whether or not people appreciate/like/respect/enjoy/want introductions. And one man's ridiculous argument is another man's highly intellectual and thought-fueled discussion. | 2009-08-16 02:59:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325 |
| id hav to dissagree... sorry. every level should be different depending on the creator. u are describing lbp like there should be set rules on how levels should be made depending on what type of level it iz. the variety and randomness of every level makes lbp so great. if every level stuck to the same rules and were all built the same, lbp would be soooo lame. if people dont like intros, then dont put it in ur level and dont complain about other lvls. and if they want to put an intro cuz itz what they envisioned in their level designed, then i think they should do it and not have any1 judge them. intros are not a gimmick. itz just a way for creators to express their imagination and to show-off their creative skills. | 2009-08-16 03:02:00 Author: mdaj Posts: 119 |
| I like intros usually, especially in cinematic levels. I couldn't see the point in an intro for a '(however many) jumps, can you make it' sort of level but I have one in my level I'm making at the minute (The Escape) where you just run past my name and you are already in the level. I thought it would add more depth than leaving the start blank, if you can't think of how to introduce the player straight into a level then an intro could be the answer. | 2009-08-16 04:15:00 Author: S-A-S--G-U-N-R  Posts: 1606 |
| So while it's an annoyance or not depending your personality, it still is annoyance. I soooo wish human ego would disappear and that people would become more spiritual and loving. I would love archaic systems like capitalism to fall. I would like people stop seeing value in non-sense like a branding. I would like to walk into HMV and there's no Britney Spears and popular radio crap designed by formulas written and proven by business mans out there. I would love to leave in an artistic world of expression, fraternity, love and altruism but it's not the case. I live with it. Hey man, take a deep breath... It is just a game and a question of Introduction... Artists don't care anyways about all that jazz, they create to express themselves first. If regognition does come on top of that, cool. If not, the artist doesn't care that much and continue to express himself. But the vast majority of the artist add a signature to their work... Then, you showed that you can add a signature without beeing blinded by a "need of recognition". | 2009-08-16 10:20:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355 |
| I dont do intros i feel you have to be a bit big headed to do one, and you only useing up space that can be use to make a better level. | 2009-08-16 10:29:00 Author: jump_button  Posts: 1014 |
| I dont do intros i feel you have to be a bit big headed, and you only useing up space that can be use to make a better level. Actually, some of the BEST levels out there show introduction sequence  ... | 2009-08-16 10:32:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355 |
| And in some peoples' views, the intro can make the level better... | 2009-08-16 10:33:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| Actually, some of the BEST levels out there show introduction sequence ... Well that my point you have to be big headed to do a intro saying look who made this! If you making a level to be famous you making it for the wrong reason. | 2009-08-16 10:46:00 Author: jump_button Posts: 1014 |
| Hmmmm, What about intro secuences that don't specify the creators name? We are kinda assuming that's a given and that intro's couldn't just be used as a stoytelling and scene-setting device. Cutting out the issue of big-headedness, how do people feel about that? | 2009-08-16 10:54:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| If you making a level to be famous you making it for the wrong reason. I think you misread all my comments | 2009-08-16 11:10:00 Author: Takelow Posts: 1355 |
| Hmm I really like intro's...if its short its fine. If its long it needs to be interesting but otherwise I'm all for them. amazingflyingpoo has some of the best intro's I've come across in his littlebigland series, if you like intro's I'd suggest checking them out. | 2009-08-16 13:52:00 Author: dsgeeno1  Posts: 76 |
| Wow... I'm actually a little amazed this thread has got so many people stirred up. Isn't it a basic thing that people want to be recognized for their work? Does it REALLY mean you're big headed? And is a well-built entertaining entrance into the level REALLY an annoyance? The only reason I put an introduction into Starship Troopers is because I found the introductions by Wexfordian, MrsSpookyBuz, Takelow, GruntosUK, and mdaj so entertaining. And who hasn't been stoked when they sit down in a movie theatre and see a GREAT introduction into the movie? It adds to the excitement. Boy, must have been big headed of George Lucas to put that boring "In a Galaxy Far Far Away" introduction into Star Wars - what an idiot! | 2009-08-16 14:48:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430 |
| Yeah I don't think I'd say big headed. I'd say it's a form of showing off definitely, especially if it's got the whole 'presents' thing in there. I think there's two different types of intros that are getting talked about in the same light when they're very different. You have the type of intro that is 'Author'/'Presents'/'Level'. Then you get the type of intro that is telling you the start of the story, or some epic action to set the scene that you're continuing from. The latter make sense, you're using that as a narrative device to set the rest of the level up. I think when Jump_Button refers to them as being 'big headed' I think he's talking about the first type. I wouldn't say big headed as such, but it definitely feels they could be showing off a bit. I'm not saying that's a necessarily bad thing in all cases. Mdaj having an intro for example, that fits perfectly. All the sci-fi levels are just about showing off cool things that he's managed to do with the tools. That's definitely a series that does work with a 'Presents' intro. My concern is that they're just getting thrown around in a lot of levels that they don't really work with and that's where this debate and split of opinion has come from. It's quite harsh because all the people that use them well are getting tarnished with the same brush. | 2009-08-16 15:17:00 Author: jackofcourse Posts: 1494 |
| And who hasn't been stoked when they sit down in a movie theatre and see a GREAT introduction into the movie? It adds to the excitement. Boy, must have been big headed of George Lucas to put that boring "In a Galaxy Far Far Away" introduction into Star Wars - what an idiot! The intro to Star Wars has a purpose though. When I play a level, I already know what it's called and who created it. I have to say I'm with jump button on this. I'm all for cinematic intros that aid in telling the story, but having to wait 30 seconds just to see the creators name up in lights doesn't really appeal. EDIT: Yeah, pretty much what Jack said lol. | 2009-08-16 15:18:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545 |
| also, the introduction to star wars didn't mention gearge lucas or any of the cast. it was purely scene setting. | 2009-08-16 15:25:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096 |
| @jackofcourse Hmm I see where youre coming from, but its not necessarily showing off to put your name in the intro. In my level Paris - One Last Job, I start of with a little story intro and then followed by the whole "presents" thing. At least for me, its a pride thing. I'm proud of my work so I put my name on it. I never once thought it would be perceived as showing off, I don't mind it when other creators do the same, especially those that put alot of work into their level. Regardless of what any of us as individuals think some people will like them and some will not either way I think its a really minor thing to be worried about. | 2009-08-16 15:42:00 Author: dsgeeno1 Posts: 76 |
| Wow... I'm actually a little amazed this thread has got so many people stirred up. Me too, I was expecting maybe one or two replies, but not this. Of course you are all free to build whatever you like, I just wanted to voice my opinion publicly in text full of generalisations. rtm said: What about intro secuences that don't specify the creators name? We are kinda assuming that's a given and that intro's couldn't just be used as a stoytelling and scene-setting device. This I like as long as they are not trying to explain it through long and hard to read sticker text. I'd prefer speechbubbles in that case. Even better of course would be a scene setting level, like graygoose's intro level The Count of St. Claire. Now if someone could pull of a convincing Star Wars-like introduction... | 2009-08-16 15:47:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193 |
| The level im working on right now has an intro. Mostly cause i enjoy intros, i think they're cool, but also cause the start of my level is a plane segment. So i figured, hey why not write my name with clouds? | 2009-08-16 16:10:00 Author: Comet Wolf Posts: 99 |
| Just like the 'platformer' is played-out... Well, Yeah it is... until you play one with some originality... Don't hate the playa'... hate his game | 2009-08-16 16:20:00 Author: Gravel  Posts: 1308 |
| Hey man, take a deep breath... It is just a game and a question of Introduction... But the vast majority of the artist add a signature to their work... Then, you showed that you can add a signature without beeing blinded by a "need of recognition". Well, as I said, it's only an annoyance. Life is far from perfect and I still love it every minute I live it! Also, I understand the signature thing but the game does it for you. Also, we are not talking about someone who'd put his name at the scoreboard of something with a "thank you for playing" or something. I'm specifically annoyed by useless intro of the name of the level + author name. Those 2 infos are the last 2 things I did read before I entered your level so it comes to me as useless repetition. I explained my opinion in great details because it's a discussion forum and it's fun but hey, don't think i'm making a big deal of intros. Also, intro for story or anything else than repeating what I just did read is super fine. . | 2009-08-16 17:07:00 Author: RangerZero Posts: 3901 |
| I think what it boils down to is that many people love it, many people don't mind it, and many people find it pointless. I'm among those who love it, if it's done well. If it's fun to watch, and adds to the level, I don't care how much they put in it or how long it takes. If a good creator feels it completes their work, it completes it for me too. Maybe a poll should be added to the first post? | 2009-08-17 05:29:00 Author: hilightnotes Posts: 1230 |
| The thing that annoys me the most are levels with impossible platforming because ledges and stairs and what have you are so da-- small. And bad cameras. I'll be the first to admit that I'm sure I've built some of the same problems into my levels. | 2009-08-17 08:49:00 Author: BasketSnake  Posts: 2391 |
| wow, I never realised how poeple can get so stirred up about an intro. We are still talking about a game here right? I am probably the biggest "culprit" of the "big intro". However, if you saw my last 3 levels you will notice I decided not to put my name on it all but move towards a more cinimatic based intro to....well..... introduce the level. My next level will not have any intro at all and absolutely zero story. Why, its not because Im bored of intros, its because that is just what I feel like creating right now. In a full game you have a story built up over hours and hours of gameplay. But whats the very first thing you see when you load the game. you have to sit through the company logos of those who made the game. Are Media Molecule big Headded for wanting to put their logo at the start of the game? Hell they even went so far as the very first level you play everyone involved in the making of the game pops up and is mentioned. Is that big headed? No, its simple they have put an immense amount of work into something that they are very proud of and why not stick your name in there, They built the game and they deserve the credit. When a creator on LBP creates a one off level, that level in itself is trying to be a fully fledged game and in doing so incorporates a intro, be it a sparkly "look at me intro" or a more subtle thing alltogether, point is, its up to the creator. In my opinion, if something is done well, whatever it is, I like it. If it isn't.... I don't. | 2009-08-17 09:39:00 Author: wexfordian  Posts: 1904 |
| Maybe a poll should be added to the first post? As you wish. :-) Poll added. | 2009-08-17 09:53:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193 |
| You are one of the biggest culprits Wex But I couldn't agree with you more, you summed it up preety nicely | 2009-08-17 10:19:00 Author: dsgeeno1 Posts: 76 |
| wow, I never realised how poeple can get so stirred up about an intro. We are still talking about a game here right? I am probably the biggest "culprit" of the "big intro". However, if you saw my last 3 levels you will notice I decided not to put my name on it all but move towards a more cinimatic based intro to....well..... introduce the level. My next level will not have any intro at all and absolutely zero story. Why, its not because Im bored of intros, its because that is just what I feel like creating right now. In a full game you have a story built up over hours and hours of gameplay. But whats the very first thing you see when you load the game. you have to sit through the company logos of those who made the game. Are Media Molecule big Headded for wanting to put their logo at the start of the game? Hell they even went so far as the very first level you play everyone involved in the making of the game pops up and is mentioned. Is that big headed? No, its simple they have put an immense amount of work into something that they are very proud of and why not stick your name in there, They built the game and they deserve the credit. When a creator on LBP creates a one off level, that level in itself is trying to be a fully fledged game and in doing so incorporates a intro, be it a sparkly "look at me intro" or a more subtle thing alltogether, point is, its up to the creator. In my opinion, if something is done well, whatever it is, I like it. If it isn't.... I don't. I think this sums it up perfectly. Its a shame the poll was only just added though, it could have given us a well rounded result of what people think. But never mind. I'm the same as Wex, no more series for me, I'm sick of doing long drawn out storys. But I think the intro's in Mars Attacks lead the levels in well without comprising the level in anyway. I'll continue to use them until the levels in the series are done, but after that I don't know. I'm going to do one off levels in future, and use the last 5 spaces I'll have on my moon once Mars is completed to do something I would'nt normally attempt (i.e. not military complexes and war) | 2009-08-17 10:45:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754 |
| be it a sparkly "look at me intro" I think this pretty much sums up why some of us feel that type of intro is a little bit show-off-y. I think it's the assuming that people actually care. I personally don't feel comfortable making that assumption. Why would anyone want to stare at my name up in lights? As for your intros Wex, we've already agreed that creative intros that set the scene are enjoyed by pretty much everyone, so no worries there. | 2009-08-17 10:46:00 Author: Kiminski Posts: 545 |
| Its a shame the poll was only just added though, it could have given us a well rounded result of what people think. But never mind.Mea culpa. I didn't expect a discussion to be honest. | 2009-08-17 11:07:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193 |
| I've never introduced me or the levels name, but I had a scene in a metal gear level, where otacon and some explanatory screens appeared on a tv explaining his mission. But i find it realy annoying after loading a level for aaaaages to have to sit there not using the controller as I slowly scroll across the credits. Maybe they could just be placed in the level, then, i wouldn't mind so much, or perhaps at the end of a long series, to credit OTHER people who have helped all it takes its a click of the start button then a look on 'about level'. | 2009-08-17 11:11:00 Author: chimpskylark  Posts: 335 |
| I pretty much agree with what everyone else has already said. I'm getting bored of all those really long unimaginative intros, but if they're done well then I don't mind at all. Usually a '"Creator' presents 'Title'" sequence eases you into the level, rather then suddenly dropping you in the middle of the action. The level I'm working on, Sacky Potter, for instance, couldn't work without an intro. I spent ages replicating the Harry Potter font for my logo, and because it's based on a popular series, I feel it needs it to help people familiarize with it. I have made it quite short though - starts out as black, title appears, then you drop down. Only lasts about 10 seconds, and I didn't bother putting my name anywhere because it wasn't really needed. | 2009-08-17 11:22:00 Author: Nuclearfish  Posts: 927 |
| I'm going to make a level called The Intro. It'll have just the intro before it fades to black and you spawn at the scoreboard. That was a joke. Ha. Ha. | 2009-08-17 11:26:00 Author: BasketSnake Posts: 2391 |
| I'm going to make a level called The Intro. It'll have just the intro before it fades to black and you spawn at the scoreboard. That was a joke. Ha. Ha. Didn't wex already do that | 2009-08-17 19:54:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| Didn't wex already do that grrrrrrrr........... i hate you. | 2009-08-17 20:01:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904 |
| They are slightly annoying, but it's only the LOONG ones REALLY bother me. | 2009-08-17 20:26:00 Author: TheMarvelousHat  Posts: 542 |
| grrrrrrrr........... i hate you. No you don't Anyway, "next level pack" is one of the best creations in the game. It just has a very long intro. Too long for me, and they're just so overdone y'know | 2009-08-17 22:21:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497 |
| I'm with the public opinion on this one... intros aren't needed. If you're really, really dedicated to making absolutely sure your intro paints the mood of your level and sets up the player for what's coming up in a meaningful way, by all means, have at it. If it's just there to have an intro and to make your level seem somehow more "epic", then I think that's the wrong reason, and it should really be scrapped. My favorite intro was... I think it was X-nobody-X's MGS level? Because there's a playable prologue. And one squeaky sound effect, followed by a fantastic punchline and a loud, insane title screen had me rolling with laughter. Very clever. That title screen lets you know right off the bat that this isn't like a lot of the other MGS levels, and that you're deeper in comedy territory now. | 2009-08-17 22:33:00 Author: Teebonesy  Posts: 1937 |
| I think Wexfordian holds the honor of longest meaningful "introduction." I wouldn't take it as a bad thing, because while doing so you managed to create the most stunning LittleBigPlanet cinematic ever conceived. But to make my view on introductions as simple as possible: If it isn't a survival challenge, go ahead. | 2009-08-17 22:34:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325 |
| I wouldn't take it as a bad thing, because while doing so you managed to create the most stunning LittleBigPlanet cinematic ever conceived. Johnee might have something to say about that. | 2009-08-17 22:44:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096 |
| Johnee might have something to say about that. I actually completely forgot about his Future Warzone level. Johnee's is different though, it's more a quick introduction than a full-on production. I'm still going to have to say that Wexfordian's is better as a cinematic just because of it's sheer length, but I obviously enjoyed playing johnee's level, as it was absolutely fantastic. | 2009-08-17 23:01:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325 |
| Gotta disagree with you there. As much as Wex`s one is impressive and longer (ooh er), johnee`s had better timing and direction. | 2009-08-17 23:40:00 Author: Matt 82 Posts: 1096 |
| I actually completely forgot about his Future Warzone level. Johnee's is different though, it's more a quick introduction than a full-on production. I'm still going to have to say that Wexfordian's is better as a cinematic just because of it's sheer length, but I obviously enjoyed playing johnee's level, as it was absolutely fantastic. did you ever play my trailer level not just my warzone level? all credit goes to wex for his amazing rendition of a true cinematic masterpiece, but im sure if you ask wex he will let you know that i made mine slightly before his, even though in my opinion his is far better | 2009-08-18 09:04:00 Author: johnee Posts: 78 |
| I've said it to johnee before and I've said it elsewhere also. My level would not have been made if I wasn't already blown away by johnees brilliant trailer. I just decided to go with a different aesthetic style to johnee. The principle idea is johnees. As for anyone who doesn't like that type of thing I clearly remember stating just about everywhere I could that it was a trailer type level rather than a gamplay driven level. I don't force anyone to sit through it if they dont want to | 2009-08-18 09:20:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904 |
| I vote nay, at least to the non-interactive intro's I think the first post is talking about. To counter the movie comparison, sitting down for a movie, you are expecting a watching experience. Sitting down for a LBP level, you're preparing for action. Waiting for the load is bad enough already! A cutscene is okay, but even then I would try to put some game play in first. | 2009-08-19 14:22:00 Author: Rogar  Posts: 2284 |
| Actually I'd say that the longest meaningful introduction is ladylyn1's MYST Introduction level. | 2009-08-19 15:52:00 Author: hilightnotes Posts: 1230 |
| It was alright before the MGS pack, but then it got insane. Although, I don't mind when it's epic like Gruntos's mars levels. | 2009-08-19 16:25:00 Author: ARD Posts: 4291 |
| i for some reason only like intros for STORY-driven levels...anything else to me seems kind of pointless..not saying its not cool for them to it but i feel that if you made a beautiful story or some radical adventure you should have an intro....also the way most people do it...it basically makes it so that plagiarists can't even copy the level because they cant make the intro as well as the originals | 2009-08-20 03:58:00 Author: Shadowcrazy  Posts: 3365 |
| When I first started my levels I never saw intros to any of the levels so I added some in mine. Granted, all it is is a theatre curtain parting for a few seconds. My curtains are also always the last thing I added and they take negligible space on the thermo. Lately I've seen some very interesting and elaborate intros for the story driven levels, which make perfect sense. However I do agree it's somewhat silly to waste 1/4 of the thermometer if your "intro" is just a huge display of your PSN and level in lights. | 2009-08-20 05:34:00 Author: Foofles  Posts: 2278 |
| However I do agree it's somewhat silly to waste 1/4 of the thermometer if your "intro" is just a huge display of your PSN and level in lights. It's a cleaverly discised way of saying "Heart me!" | 2009-08-20 10:05:00 Author: snowyjoe Posts: 509 |
| I'm sure if you got into a level that had one of these intro's but then got blown away by the level...you wouldn't even think about criticising the intro. I think its only when a level has a long intro and you leave feeling the creator didn't put enough effort in the actual level that you would be annoyed at the intro. | 2009-08-20 10:12:00 Author: dsgeeno1 Posts: 76 |
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