Archive: 25 posts

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I've just hit a wall in create mode, i'm hoping someone has experienced it and can give me some help.... The thermo's very close to full on a saved level, but as soon as i edit more than a couple of things, the pistons and motor bolts start to jerk instead of move smoothly, and in some cases, just fall apart when triggered to move. I don't think the thermo is the cause, i tried deleting a few things to give it some breathing space and the problem still exists. The level has been on the go for quite a while due to various reasons, is this possibly the glitch that occurs when you've been making the level for too long a time...? Any help would be great, I have a earlier backup but there's an awful lot of tweaks and work to replace. Anyone had a similar scenario...?

2009-08-14 00:29:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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Yup, all through my level. Anything allowed to move of it's own accord will judder (i.e not controlled by directional control), this includes flippers controlled by one-shots and stuff controlled by on/off switches. Everything that is visible is an moved is controlled by logic and it's the logic that is juddering off screen. Interestingly it doesn't seem to have an impact on the mag switches. or the motion of stuff on wheels. Just a visual thing maybe? I think it's just a lag issue. As I said I am seeing it but it's not affecting the gamplay so I stopped worrying about it. I don't think you are likely to find a solution TBH.

2009-08-14 00:35:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I think you may be talking about the same thing that I experience when playing Keldur's level, "Lafarge's Quest". Every time I play it, the bolts and pistons move about jerkily, making normal, fluid sack-motion almost impossible.

2009-08-14 00:52:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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I've had it happen.. and not sure what it is actually. To my knowledge the 160 hour left in play mode issue is when some pistons as well as some wobble bolts will stop working altogether. I try to recommend folks as much as possible to stay in pause mode for the most part during creation to avoid this. I have had that happen and had to resort to an earlier backup to finish the level and remain in pause. However the juddrey or stuttering pistons... Not sure. I have had it happen, but never could figure out what to do about it. It was an earlier level that I had tried to add some much needed decoration to. It was at the top of the thermo and had reclaimed a bit from removing some embedded materials. Everything was fine till I tried to sticker the heck out of a particular building and those were the two pistons in that building that decided to go wonky. So hopefully someone has a suggestion!!! Wish I could be of more help!!!!

2009-08-14 01:03:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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To my knowledge the 160 hour left in play mode issue is when some pistons as well as some wobble bolts will stop working altogether. I try to recommend folks as much as possible to stay in pause mode for the most part during creation to avoid this. I have had that happen and had to resort to an earlier backup to finish the level and remain in pause. WTF is this????? I am scared.

2009-08-14 01:12:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Seriously? So sorry to freak you out! I thought this was a pretty well known bug. It has something to do with the precision of the internal time clock in a level. If you leave it in play mode during creation and rack up over 160 hours, due to the timing of things like wobbles and pistons, they will stop working. Not all of them... just a few here and there. I had it happen on my Adventure in Tiny Town level as I had the roller coaster constantly running in play mode. For one, it was pretty comical having it whooosh by every so many minutes, and two I felt it was good to insure it wouldn't break as it is a really fast coaster. However I hit the wall one day and several wobble bolts and pistons failed. Even on attempting to recreate them it would fail. I had to go back to an earlier backup to finish the level. Not sure if this has ever been corrected or not as I simply DO NOT allow a level into play mode during creation. I do it to check gravity as well as allow things like moving enemies to sync, but for the most part I have it in pause mode. Hope this helps!

2009-08-14 01:25:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Seriously? So sorry to freak you out! I thought this was a pretty well known bug. It has something to do with the precision of the internal time clock in a level. If you leave it in play mode during creation and rack up over 160 hours, due to the timing of things like wobbles and pistons, they will stop working. Not all of them... just a few here and there. I had it happen on my Adventure in Tiny Town level as I had the roller coaster constantly running in play mode. For one, it was pretty comical having it whooosh by every so many minutes, and two I felt it was good to insure it wouldn't break as it is a really fast coaster. However I hit the wall one day and several wobble bolts and pistons failed. Even on attempting to recreate them it would fail. I had to go back to an earlier backup to finish the level. Not sure if this has ever been corrected or not as I simply DO NOT allow a level into play mode during creation. I do it to check gravity as well as allow things like moving enemies to sync, but for the most part I have it in pause mode. Hope this helps! This is news to me as well. Does rewinding undo the time additions? I would think so, but I'm just making sure.

2009-08-14 01:40:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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This is news to me as well. Does rewinding undo the time additions? I would think so, but I'm just making sure. Yes... but once you save and exit to your pod, that time period is saved where it is. You probably figured that as well, but don't want anyone to assume anything!!

2009-08-14 02:32:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Yes... but once you save and exit to your pod, that time period is saved where it is. You probably figured that as well, but don't want anyone to assume anything!! You know what they say about what assuming does. That's a scary bug though, I'm glad you mentioned it. I normally rewind after I play test, but now I feel I'd be better off testing in Play Mode. Thanks for the tip!

2009-08-14 02:40:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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You know what they say about what assuming does. That's a scary bug though, I'm glad you mentioned it. I normally rewind after I play test, but now I feel I'd be better off testing in Play Mode. Thanks for the tip! Most welcome! Wish I had made a thread about it earlier, but julesyjules is having the juddery piston issue which I have no clue about what causes it. They could be related and possibly near the moment of the 160 hours. However, I am just making a guess as the same level the 160 hour issue hit me (though as I said, I went to an earlier backup and remained paused) is now having the juddery issue once I try to add more stickers. What's weird and just tossing this out as I had already explained.. is that when I do incur the jerky pistons is it isn't until I sticker that building. That is what doesn't make any sense. Sorta like the sticker wackes it or something. Oh well.. again, sorry to reiterate this, but sometimes rewording things helps others see a bit of light that they might not have and have an idea toward a solution or at least root cause. Good luck!

2009-08-14 03:00:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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It has something to do with the precision of the internal time clock in a level. If you leave it in play mode during creation and rack up over 160 hours, due to the timing of things like wobbles and pistons, they will stop working. Not all of them... just a few here and there. How do you know about those 160 houres? I've had this problem in almost all my levels, but much, much quicker then 160 houres. I had to rebuild my latest level 7 times (it has over 700 synchronized pistons) but i always thought this was because of the grid bug (grid doens't always align correctly) so eventually, things will get stuck. misty.

2009-08-14 07:59:00 Author: Mother-Misty Posts: 574

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How do you know about those 160 houres? I've had this problem in almost all my levels, but much, much quicker then 160 houres. I had to rebuild my latest level 7 times (it has over 700 synchronized pistons) but i always thought this was because of the grid bug (grid doens't always align correctly) so eventually, things will get stuck. misty. Welll it is true things can get stuck, especially if two items are side by side aligned on the grid. I have had where I had to take and shink or use the corner editor to make something a tad bit smaller or make them glass. It is like they bind up similar to a wooden door can do if it swells a bit under humidity... I accidently twinged a huge section of my last level and had to compensate due to that. However where I first learned of the 160 hour issue was the following thread. You might have to jump around a bit, but Lite_Sleeper was the one that first clued me in to the issue. http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=creationgen&thread.id=15215&view=by_date_ascending&page=3 I seem to recall seeing it mentioned elsewhere as well, but that is where I first saw and posted about my issue. ...for me, it was a piston that in no way could have been bound up by anything as well as wobble bolts that were simply holding thin layer sign boards that I wanted to rock a bit. Hope this helps!

2009-08-14 11:15:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Welll it is true things can get stuck, especially if two items are side by side aligned on the grid. I have had where I had to take and shink or use the corner editor to make something a tad bit smaller or make them glass. It is like they bind up similar to a wooden door can do if it swells a bit under humidity... hehe, that sounds so familiar! (the level i was talking about has 700 pistons side by side aligned on the grid to 0.1seconds, (i've had some serious problems there) It works now (after rebuilding it 7 times ) However where I first learned of the 160 hour issue was the following thread. You might have to jump around a bit, but Lite_Sleeper was the one that first clued me in to the issue. http://forums.littlebigworkshop.com/lbp/board/message?board.id=creationgen&thread.id=15215&view=by_date_ascending&page=3 thanks for that link, very interesting topic! haven't read it completly, but does that mean that the bug occurs when you leave your level unpaused in create mode for 160 houres? (that's almost a week straight!) misty.

2009-08-14 12:19:00 Author: Mother-Misty Posts: 574

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hehe, that sounds so familiar! (the level i was talking about has 700 pistons side by side aligned on the grid to 0.1seconds, (i've had some serious problems there) It works now (after rebuilding it 7 times ) thanks for that link, very interesting topic! haven't read it completly, but does that mean that the bug occurs when you leave your level unpaused in create mode for 160 houres? (that's almost a week straight!) misty. Ahh... yes that would cause an issue or 700! Most welcome for the link. Correct.. unpaused for 160+ hours. The level I was working on at the time took me probably around two months (usually evenings and weekends mind you!) and the amount of time unpaused easily hit that. As I had said previously, I had to go to an earlier backup as my final playtesting incurred the issue. So happy I had an earlier backup too!!!

2009-08-14 12:28:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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but does that mean that the bug occurs when you leave your level unpaused in create mode for 160 houres? (that's almost a week straight!) I spent 4 months on my level. Around 30-60 in unpause to pause (the remaing 10% spent rewinding and swearing ). An average of 4 hours creating per day would put me that high. I haven't spent 4 hours per day on average, but I've spent a lot of time in unpause. I'm scared.

2009-08-14 12:29:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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I spent 4 months on my level. Around 30-60 in unpause to pause (the remaing 10% spent rewinding and swearing ). An average of 4 hours creating per day would put me that high. I haven't spent 4 hours per day on average, but I've spent a lot of time in unpause. I'm scared. Oh, i thought it was straight (no turning the PS3 off and leaving the level running in create mode for a week) misty.

2009-08-14 12:30:00 Author: Mother-Misty Posts: 574

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Oh, i thought it was straight (no turning the PS3 off and leaving the level running in create mode for a week) misty. That would be one hell of a Create Session!

2009-08-14 12:32:00 Author: BSprague Posts: 2325

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I spent 4 months on my level. Around 30-60 in unpause to pause (the remaing 10% spent rewinding and swearing ). An average of 4 hours creating per day would put me that high. I haven't spent 4 hours per day on average, but I've spent a lot of time in unpause. I'm scared. Yes, but you do have it as a published working level. If you go in and change anything, leave it paused. Or if not, go into create mode pause and save. That way if you revisit to make a change, you are safer as you are still in pause and not runing the clock anymore.

2009-08-14 12:32:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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I've had it happen.. and not sure what it is actually. To my knowledge the 160 hour left in play mode issue is when some pistons as well as some wobble bolts will stop working altogether. I try to recommend folks as much as possible to stay in pause mode for the most part during creation to avoid this. I have had that happen and had to resort to an earlier backup to finish the level and remain in pause. This happened to me when I was 95% of the way through the creation of my first level, Gothic Reverie. Starting out as as a "newborn" creator I had no idea that it was such a bad idea to build a level outside of pause, but after weeks of hard work, everything just suddenly seized up and stopped working. Copying the level to a new crater didn't help, but then I resolved the issue by capturing the entire level and pasting it into a new, empty level space. As soon as I did this, the pistons and wobble bolts came back to life. With my latest level I have only built in pause mode, except for the odd occasion when I needed to unpause and check that the unglue bug hadn't hit me, but even then I have been rewinding things immediately to the last paused state.

2009-08-14 12:36:00 Author: Ungreth Posts: 2130

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Yup.. I only unpause to check gravity or to check moving parts here and there. Mostly any other object or section that needs testing etc, I create in another level, test and pull over as an object.

2009-08-14 12:45:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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@Misty: Lol, that really would be a bug for the hardcore out there @jww: Well the state it's in now I have to rewind after testing anything new - there are around about 60-70 prox activated permanent events around the level and I can't help but trip one of them up It's still pretty scary that I didn't know about this. Also, is there any way for mods to split a thread? I think this needs a thread of it's own and it's really unfair on jules that his thread has been hijacked inadvertantly. MOD!!!

2009-08-14 12:54:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Thanks for all the comments so far, I've been trying a few methods to try and resolve the dilemma, but none have worked so far. I've deleted anything on a piston that isn't absolutely necessary, I've tried dissolving the objects behind you (and therefore pistons) as you pass through the level so in effect the logic eases up the further you play. No joy. I emailed MM, but i doubt they'll have the time to give me any tips. If Spaff is reading this, does the next patch go anyway to help fixing the 160hr bug...? (at this point i'm can only assume this is it). If i want to continue the level it looks like I'll have to go back to my earlier back-up and do as much as possible in pause mode, but I'm hesitant to do this incase I have the bug rear its head again anyway....I'm more than a little p***** off that all this time and effort I've spent is now potentially a complete waste of time.

2009-08-14 12:56:00 Author: julesyjules Posts: 1156

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@jules - I think, though I can't be sure that these are two different bugs. If I move objects out of my level the jerkiness stops and new objects moved into the level also show jerkiness. Now this would mean that the issue is based around the level rather than the object itself. From what little I understand of RickRock's no smoke emitters, the lifetime is somehow linked to the object, so I doubt this is a lifetime issue. If it is a lifetime issue and the lifetime is connected to the level (based on what I see importing / exporting sections), then you may be able to move the whole level to another patch on your moon. It may be worth moving it in chunks to see what happens anyway. It's a stab in the dark, but it can't hurt. I should point out that I first started seeing this when I added randomised logic controls for around 30 pulsing / flickering and otherwise speed-controlled lights. This could be a coincidence but it's that that's making me think it might be lag-oriented. I'll try deleting those logic circuits and see what happens when I get home...

2009-08-14 13:03:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Thanks for all the comments so far, I've been trying a few methods to try and resolve the dilemma, but none have worked so far. I've deleted anything on a piston that isn't absolutely necessary, I've tried dissolving the objects behind you (and therefore pistons) as you pass through the level so in effect the logic eases up the further you play. No joy. I emailed MM, but i doubt they'll have the time to give me any tips. If Spaff is reading this, does the next patch go anyway to help fixing the 160hr bug...? (at this point i'm can only assume this is it). If i want to continue the level it looks like I'll have to go back to my earlier back-up and do as much as possible in pause mode, but I'm hesitant to do this incase I have the bug rear its head again anyway....I'm more than a little p***** off that all this time and effort I've spent is now potentially a complete waste of time. So sorry to hear that. I have heard that Mm can reset the clock, but in several emails to them during my issue I never had them respond to any. Possibly they might respond to you as you are quite a bit more known that lil ol me.. especially back in Feb when I was just a speck on the planet. Wish you the best of luck !! @rtm.. Yeah.. some of this probably does need to be in another thread or perhaps the title changed to include this info, but I can't help feel that it is related or perhaps a level that is close to the 160 mark. Too bad in the tutorials, there isn't this cool little tip somewhere. I imagine it has more to do with they never imagined anyone would build a level so involved as what we are doing now.

2009-08-14 13:15:00 Author: jwwphotos Posts: 11383

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Sorry to be late to the party guys, but Phife had this same issue in his The Tribe level, as well as its sequel. I didn't know about this when he mentioned it, but both times he resolved the issues by copying his whole level over, piece by piece, to a blank level. Not ideal, but it's a solution when backed into a wall.

2009-08-21 13:03:00 Author: comphermc Posts: 5338

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