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A Heartless Night in Halloween Town

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A Heartless Night in Halloween TownMrTran
Based on Tim Burton's Halloween Town and Disney's Kingdom Hearts. Halloween Town's moon has been taken by the unknown! Could it be Oogie? And is he the one conjuring the Heartless? Part 1 of 2. Part 2 in the making. Thanks for looking.
all		2009-08-03 22:14:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216

I'm not really a fan of Kingdom hearts, or the Nightmare before Christmas, but this level was exceptional. I loved the part under the mayors house were the Bridge collapsed under your feet. The only flaw with this level that I noticed was that the enemies weren't really too dangerous - except for the pumpkin headed fellows. Voted 5 stars, good job.2009-08-04 01:51:00

Author:
L0l_L0l-
Posts: 139

Ah thanks for the 5 star. Yeah the regular heartless aren't dangerous at all (like the ones in Kingdom Hearts). Do be careful of those pumpkin ones 2009-08-04 02:37:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216

Cool pics. I'll give this one a shot this evening.2009-08-04 07:58:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

This level has a lot of really nice art in it. Sadly, you can't really see much of it. also the use of music was really good. very burtonesk.


:star: the gas hazard under jack's house is a little...odd. seems like that'd be a good place to stash score bubbles


:star: the spider-things are black against a black background. the only thing about them that is clearly visible is the brain and the eyes. Just a touch of white gradient would help, I think. or change the back-ground a little. Looking closer, I notice that they have little animated legs. If I hadn't been studying them so intently, I would have missed that little perk entirely. It's a shame to hide your careful work behind a color/lighting scheme that isn't working well.


:star: check-points: I really like the stickers and decorations on them, but the Gage is obscured on some of them, so the player can't see how much health they have left. IF they were infinite health, it wouldn't matter.


:star: "he never had a chance-" It's probably better if you don't use the emote. it kind of ruins the mood, and is superfluous anyway.


:star: I liked the art-full way you placed the score bubbles above the jack-in the box.


:star: where the key is stashed: you might consider making this check point a double life since the key is unwieldy(why not make the whole key graspable?), and there are lots of places to get hung-up in this cramped space. I imagine you lose some players here. Also on my 4'th reset of the level, the lamp got stuck over the electric things forcing a 5'th reset.


:star: there are a couple of places where you get jammed up in spider-things It's a nice little monster, but sometimes less is more.



:star: the car leading from Jack's house tends to dissolve right when you grab the switch, or fling the player past the point where they are supposed to end up. a little tweaking and a delay switch might would help this. Also, I never got the car to drop me into the next part of the level again. That transition needs some work.

:star: the Jack-O-lanterns and the saw-blades. This part works well. nicely done!


:star: the tunnel directly afterwards..Black-on-black. Doesn't really work.


:star: the grab elevator at the end of the tunnel went up and dropped me back, then never came back down. a lot of players, at that point would quit the level and never come back.


Well, that should give you some thoughts to start with.

For future levels: this level was cramped. don't be afraid to make things on a bigger scale and to space things out. You have a lot of space to work with. and even if you are going for a moody atmosphere, use more varied colors. It helps game play, and will show-case your objects better than just dark-and-black

If you would, I'd appriciate you taking a look at "my happy place" and posting your thoughts.		2009-08-04 08:38:00

Author:
swanbrown
Posts: 898

Thanks swanbrown for your detailed feedback.

The spider things are the heartless lol. I'll look into putting a gradient in the background so their body parts are more noticeable. I thought that was a problem too but I haven't gotten around to it. I put a lot in that one area because in the game you get jumped by a lot of those type of Heartless so I wanted it the same as the game. They're not dangerous but I can see how it can be frustrating. All you have to do is jump down to the lower layer and jump up and bounce on top of them all. As for the check points, I'll add a double life checkpoint in the lab. As for the key, I'll make the whole thing dissolve material. I'll tweak the emitter for the Mayor's car to a longer lifetime. I'll change the elevator at the end to a slower time. I kinda wanted it to burst through the ground but I can settle for slow. Thanks again for the detailed feedback. I'll get to work on those things and your F4F tomorrow. It's late and I don't think I can give a detailed feedback on your level while I'm sleepy

I can see how it was a compact level but I wanted to make it more task oriented where you had to go to once place to get access to another and backtrack a little. Kind of RPGish was what I was going for if that makes sense. My other levels use the entire width of the map. I just wanted something different this time around 		2009-08-04 09:33:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216

Ok, erm, my PS3 won't even let me search for you. I'll have a shot at this level as soon as it stops being slow. Sorry!2009-08-04 11:03:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812

I played through this last night and thought it was a lot of fun. I?m a fan of both The Nightmare Before Christmas as well as Kingdom Hearts and thought that you did very well to get the feel of both in the level.

I like a lot of the small crannies and nooks that the player can explore, getting bubbles and meeting different characters, there really is a lot of different routes and places that you can go even though the map itself is very small and compacted.

I like a lot of the detail work that you?ve done with things like the level logo to the small characters and shapes that you?ve made. It can be very difficult to make small, thin, wiry objects in LBP as some materials start going all woggly when made too small but you?ve got a lot of fidelity to your small, black silhouette Jack and a lot of the small pumpkins and the Heartless.

The Heartless are done well in their shape and they are a bit hard to see the details on and are also a bit hard to kill. I like that they are essentially harmless yet annoying yet if they gang up on you then there can be some problems.

I had quite a bit of problems in Dr. Finklesteins lab. (The boot part is funny by the way considering that the grumpy doctor is wheelchair bound.) The lamp didn?t go straight up between the two electrified poles and it took a few tries to get it to ascend the whole way and then after I freed the key I fell down but the key got hung up on top of the electrified bits. I had lost so many lives trying to get up cleanly that it was a tense bit trying to coax the key down enough to activate it.

There are a few more areas up top that I wanted to explore but after passing through Jack?s house I found myself down in the tunnel. The destruction of the walkway by the saws was very well done and cool to watch.

I did have a problem with the lift on the right side. It started to raise when I got there but then just stuttered in the air. This seems to be activated by a proximity switch which causes the jerky motion when the player doesn?t follow. I originally tried to jump into the lift but then it didn?t seem to go up so after playing around I got it to raise by grabbing onto the bottom of the lift at which point it did raise but then seemed to get stuck on something before it cleared the exit.

I dropped back down but the lift didn?t follow and seemed to remain stuck. It was late enough in the night that I decided to stop and retry again tonight but thought that you could use feedback on the part I've gone through already.

It seems that you?ve gotten similar responses and will be fixing some of the issues I've raised so I?m looking forward to playing through it again.		2009-08-04 17:54:00

Author:
Trindall
Posts: 297

I played this level...and got stuck at the part where the "cats" come out of the box, then I played the Ring level and some glitched sent me to the floor after being pushed by the black thingamabob.
I'm sorry, but IMHO, you should try to tweak your levels better gameplaywise, since they're wonderful visually.		2009-08-04 19:46:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

Thanks for all the detailed feedback.

swanbrown - I've fixed the key so the whole thing is grabbable. I tried adding a gradient to the background but it didn't work out so I left it be. Sorry. It is placed in a prize bubble so I guess players could check it out in their spare time? I made the light smaller in the lab so it'd be less likely to get stuck and you'd be less likely to get zapped. I also removed one heartless and spaced out the other ones at the part where you get jumped . The Mayor's car also was changed to have a longer lifetime when emitted. Thanks!

resistance1 - Yeah, LBP was being weird last night. A lot of Preloading resources messages. I got up this morning and it seems like the star rating is back. Yay . I guess that's what they were working on last night?

Trindall - I'm glad you had fun playing through the level. Yeah, I wanted it to be super fun. With the regular heartless, you can just run under them and come at their backside . The pumpkins are harder to kill and they have spikes in the front so careful when they jump at you. I think I'll make the spikes electrified so they're easier to spot. I'm really sorry you had a bad time with the key. It seems like everybody else had a bad time with it too. I've fixed the light to be smaller and the whole key to be grabbable for the cutscene. I'm glad that you are willing to give it a second chance. I hope things go smoothly for you next time around.

OmegaSlayer - Sorry you had such a rough time with my levels. I've fixed the part where u get pushed so that you spawn in the cafe if you die. Unfortunately, the transition in that area isn't so smooth and I tried my hardest to keep it the way it's supposed to be. There are unforeseen deaths in that part of the level and I'm sincerely sorry on Mm's behalf that the sackboys are so fragile . This should be in another F4F (one I haven't put up yet), so lets leave it at that for now. Hope you'd be willing to try again. When the "cats" come out of the box, try running away

To All that play - I've trashed the lift near the end and added a simple grab sponge that takes you up. Until I think of a better way of having you burst through the grave like a zombie, the grab sponge, I think, is a good substitute. Sorry for all the bad timing on my end with the lift. Thanks again for the detailed feedback. Keep it coming so I can keep making the level better! 		2009-08-04 22:13:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216

Thanks for your comment on my level. I just played your level and it opens brilliantly, I love the logo. There's some fun stuff to do like the grab-jump thing in the middle and the jack-o-lantern section, but there are too many of those little monsters, they get a little annoying!2009-08-05 02:35:00

Author:
Kipmonlin
Posts: 251

Yeah, they get annoying in the real game too! Thanks for playing my level! Glad you enjoyed it. Noticed you took a pic next to Jack Nicely done.2009-08-05 02:41:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216

Don't know if anyone noticed but the fountain in the middle of town spurts out water (score bubbles) if you pull the tail.2009-08-05 03:17:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216

I just finished playing your level and I can say I'm very very impressed.
I can't believe this level is rated 3 stars.
I really liked the overall design of the level. You could really tell that you sent a lot of time on each of the shapes, specially the intro letters. They looked like a font that you could download! The thing that I admire the most is your level of detail! from the little books in the bookshelf to the checkpoint stickers, everything was on point with the theme. You could also tell that you put a lot of work in the dialogue, which went perfectly with the story. nice job!
As I played this level, it felt like a different kinda gameplay. It was very creative how you used all the layers to have ppl move throughout them as the level progressed. But I think that's why your level hasn't been rated so greatly as it deserves. At times, the level seem confusing with all the possible routes you could take. I felt like a was going the wrong way or I was missing something. I thought it was brilliant, but then again, you kinda have to please the masses.

:star::star::star::star: & Beautiful

Whenever you have a chance, please review my F4F level.

Thanks,		2009-08-05 04:05:00

Author:
javi haguse
Posts: 744

I will try both levels soon.
I didn't want to be rude, but really man, you've got serious skill, so why spoil them just because your stuff is not tested enough?

Actually if I find a level that is plain looking and has gameplay bugs, I usually exit the level and rate it really bad, since I think that the creator was unrespectful towards the players.
Yours is not the case since it's obvious that you put a lot of effort, time and sweat on your stuff, but it would have needed some beta testing.

Now that you're here I'm sure that there will be a lot of peopling willing to beta test levels for you, and then your levels will deserve 5 stars.		2009-08-05 07:22:00

Author:
OmegaSlayer
Posts: 5112

javi haguse - Thanks for your kind feedback! Yeah, I assume it got a 3 star because I made a part in the level too complicated and it didn't work out too well.. But I made sure I fixed it really quick. Hopefully as time passes on, people will vote higher than a 3 star. Good point about players getting confused on where to go. Maybe I'll change the description to kindly pay attention to the dialogues. I'll review your level soon.

OmegaSlayer - Naw dude, you don't sound rude. The only reason I post my levels on here is to improve my skills from F4F. I don't mind fixing bugs when people find them. I just don't have a lot of time for playtesting (I have to study most of the time). Thanks for the compliment. I like to put a lot of work into my levels to fill up the thermo. I'd like to F4F you but I can't find a level posted by you? Do you have any up? If so, I'd like a link. Thanks!		2009-08-05 10:19:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216

Ok, my PS3 has worked long enough for me to play this level.

I thought it was absolutely amazing, visually. I loved the heartless symbol, it looks like it must have taken hours. I liked the heartless, they looked pretty much the same as in Kingdom Hearts. It was a bit black though. I understand that it had to be, but I felt it was a waste of your time to put in loads of wonderful artwork just for it to be hidden by the general blackness of your level.

The gameplay was good, but not by any stretch of the imagination perfect. Most of it was fine, but there are a couple of things I didn't like, like the pumpkin lift (This has been explained in earlier posts, so I won't bother), and the bit in Dr. Finklestein's house. I got up to the top and acquired the key easily enough, however, by the time I had to get down, I had lost all of my lives except one, so, because the light had gone back down, I had to jump inbetween two balls of electricity without dying. I must admit that was nervewracking to say the least. Aside from them problems, I thought that the back and forward RPG-ish feel was good, a bit like Little big land three, which was in my opinion one of the best levels on LBP.

If I was rating on the visuals, I would be dissapointed there was not a sixth star.

However, I'm rating the level, so I gave it 4 stars and a big heart.		2009-08-05 11:39:00

Author:
resistance1
Posts: 812

I played through this level again and the lift has now been replaced with the Jack pumpkin face thingy which may not be your ideal choice but it does fit in with the numerous other jack face images throughout the level. (Or at least in Jack's house that I remember.)

I had fun again as I could play a bit more without the same frustrations of exploring around that I did the first time. I noticed the feature on the fountain that I didn't find before and I think that there may be other hidden things in you level considering that your high score is much higher than the next in line.

I think that Dr. Finklstein's lab may still be the most difficult section in the level so far. That is where everyone has the most trouble. Part of it may be that the light is on a chain and as such it can swing about quite a bit and get stuck either above or below the electrified ball things.

One thing you can do is to attach a piston to the light in addition to the chain. Both the chain and piston attach to the same objects at both ends but apart enough so that you can tweak the values of each independantly.

You can set the chain to have the same value for min/max distance which effectively turns it into a chain rope that does not move. Set this min/max distance to a value greater than the distance that you want the chain to descend.

Now set your piston to have the correct min/max distance values, set it to stiff and invisible and attach the grab switch to the piston rather than the chain.

Now you have a fixed light that when grabbed will still raise/lower the exact same as before and look the same with the chain but it will no longer swing around or get stuck. Then it'd be up to the player to time it right rather than to avoid wobbling around on the way up, down.

Just a thought.		2009-08-05 16:45:00

Author:
Trindall
Posts: 297

I saw that you were still having trouble with the color...um, I have a Gradient tool that may actually help you. I realize it sounds like I'm spamming your thread, but I really think you will be able to use it to finly tune your blacks. failing that, there's another utility called "Color-creator:mix Any Custom Hue and Make a Sticker" by Lite_sleeper that may help.2009-08-05 19:21:00

Author:
swanbrown
Posts: 898

resistance1 - Thanks for the compliments of the artwork! Yeah I know the gameplay isn't that great. And there's very few platforming elements other than switching from layer to layer to get further into town. I guess I'll have to include that somehow in Part 2. Sorry about the electric in the lab. I wanted to make it challenging because the rest of the level is a cake walk. The checkpoint is a double life so hopefully players will get through it okay. I think you had a strike of bad luck. Thanks for the heart. Much appreciated!

Trinall - Yeah, I replaced and removed a few things here and there. I'm glad you had fun on the second playthrough. I'm constantly trying to add changes so it plays more smoothly via F4F. There aren't any other score bubbles other than the fountain and the obvious. Yeah I felt the jack grab sponge got repetitive so I changed it to a Zero grab sponge! Whoo. I see your logic behind the piston attached to the light. I'll try that out. Thanks for the tip! Oh and thanks for looking back on this level showcase. I know a lot of people aren't really committed to doing that!

swanbrown - I'll try your gradient level. Thanks for the info

Edit: Your gradient didn't have the hue I was looking for nor did Lite_sleeper's level because I was looking for a black/yellow gradient. I managed to do it though, I just colored the background yellow and used a huge black gradient and just colored in yellow for the windows. Check the level out again when you can. You can definitely see every part of the heartless clearly now. I also changed the pumpkin heartless spikes to electric so you can see it better . I personally think the background looks better. Thanks for the persistancy. (Is that even a word? But you know what I mean). Looking forward to your finished happy place level. PM me when it's done!		2009-08-05 22:40:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216

Hey i love this lvl the arts etc.. yeah pretty cool lvl good job :star::star::star::star::star: 2009-08-06 10:04:00

Author:
Joey
Posts: 758

Hey I played your level 2 days ago, but I didn't had time to feedback.

So I really like it, mainly for the visual design! Very good
You respected the movie and Burton style and this is great!
Some nice ideas for the gameplay too!

The only thing I can say, like somebody else did, is that I've got stuck many times and even was lost cause I didn't know what to do... (I'm not the best player). That, mainly in the first part :
-Too much of the black monster going out of the boxes
- The Pumpkin heads are hard to kill, the brain is too high...or is there a specific way to kill them?
- For example, after the small car ride, it didn't understand that I needed to go under the mayor "house" (?)
...so I just go up and take the car again ! after 5 times I understood

These are details, but that's what I felt when I played it.
Anyway, Good work!!
:star::star::star::star:		2009-08-06 22:17:00

Author:
dajdaj03
Posts: 1486

Played this last night and you have some amazing talent at making accurate characters and incredible text. First rate title - I love title treatments and this one is just stunning.

I really enjoyed your Jack Skellingon faces and all the little details you have included too. You are very good at sticker work.

I really REALLY wanted to love the whole level but after getting into it a bit I experienced a few problems.

- Too many of those little black bad guys. They are wonderfully done but too many to make working your way through fun. I kept getting buried by them and extricating myself was more annoying than anything.
- It's not always clear what I'm supposed to be doing or where I should be going. Some levels this confusion is part of a puzzle or part of the plotline which is fine by me but in this specific level I couldn't find a good reason for it. I'm not sure if it's the scale your working in or just the back and forth pattern with dead ends that was throwing me off but I wandered a lot looking for the next area to play and it was next to impossible for me to figure out without a lot of trial and error.
- A few areas have the player automatically shifting planes. It's not a big deal once or even twice on a level imo but when your fighting to stay in the layer you need to be in more than that it's an issue.
- Your thermo is probably maxed so I don't know if this is even an option - but - after seeing the text treatment and Jack and the wonderful pumpkin shapes and fountain, I was disappointed that the trick or treaters, the Dr. and Sally were stickers. With your talent for color, shape and character recreation I would have really liked to see you take on these characters from scratch.

I think you have some amazing potential and a solid artistic style that could work incredibly well for LBP levels. My suggestion would be to play more levels to figure out how game flow and layout can affect the overall experience for a player. I'm looking forward to future levels from you. I rated this level 4 stars and hearted it! Thanks for sharing it!		2009-08-06 22:37:00

Author:
Morgana25
Posts: 5983

Joey - Thanks for playing my level! I appreciate the 5 star

dajdaj03 - Thanks, I put a lot of work into making it visually great! Yeah the pumpkin heartless are hard to kill.. but it is possible to kill them. There are 2 in the town. The first one on the front layer can be killed by running and jumping. The second one by the fountain you have to use strategy and stand on the lower rocks of the fountain then when it gets close, just aim and jump on the brain then you'll end up in the nook with all the score/prize bubbles. I realize not a lot of players will know to grab the bottom of the light in Town Hall. I will fix that thanks! Glad to know you had a fun time with the level.

Morgana25 - This is incredibly awkward but.. I just finished playing the first part of your Chroma Gem series and I look back on here to reply to Joey's feedback and I saw yours here posted 2 minutes ago.. Are you watching me? xD. Yeah, the reason I put the characters as stickers is because at the time I recently bought a Playstation Eye so I wanted to use it. I was disappointed when I couldn't find good pictures for them. I was thinking of making them after I saw how bad quality the trick or treaters were but I didn't want to divert from my original plan. Part 2 will have the characters made from materials. I will include some of the characters seen in Part 1 as well as some new ones. I'm sorry you experienced unforeseen switching in the planes. The only time I've experienced this was when you try to jump on the Mayor's car and switch planes twice and end up underneath the car. Could you be more specific in this area? Maybe I could think of a way to work around it. Other than that, I wanted the player to explore the Town and freeroam so I didn't continuously nag the player where to go. I did put a sign in the beginning that all players should come to Finklestein's lab though. Thanks for reviewing it! I wanted to explain why I used stickers for the characters previously but nobody brought it up

Edit: I'll remove one of the small heartless from the level 		2009-08-06 23:00:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216

No - I'm not watching you. lol I just have precious little to do at work today and am hanging on the forum and saw Joey post (he and I played together last night) reminded me I needed to post feedback for you. Hope you liked Chroma Stone. You don't have to do F4F on it as I don't, strictly speaking, do F4F but comments are always welcome 2009-08-06 23:05:00

Author:
Morgana25
Posts: 5983

Well, I was already on it once I replied to your post! Chroma Stone is great. Your part 2 gave me ideas for my part 2! Have fun @ work zZz.2009-08-07 00:22:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216

No - I'm not watching you. lol I just have precious little to do at work today and am hanging on the forum and saw Joey post (he and I played together last night) reminded me I needed to post feedback for you. Hope you liked Chroma Stone. You don't have to do F4F on it as I don't, strictly speaking, do F4F but comments are always welcome

lol yeah, hmm we did got lost in the lvl lol trying to find jack home.. pfffsstt the house was just in front of us 		2009-08-07 10:30:00

Author:
Joey
Posts: 758

Haha, well I'm glad you found it okay! Woot, I'm in cool levels!!2009-08-07 12:11:00

Author:
MrTran
Posts: 216


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