Archive: 40 posts

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Right, after reading a thread on LBL about the lack of give-aways in levels I decided to take it to the next step and not just give small creations away but make all my levels copy-able. I realise that there may be people who will just publish the levels under their name. Obviously I won't like you if you do so and will not ever help you, but if you feel the need to take credit for something you didn't do, go ahead at re-publish all my levels. (If you credit me it's not that bad) So play, create, share is 100% true for all my levels from now on. I won't make them copyable from day one on, but after a few weeks I open them up to everyone no matter how popular they will be. (Going by the current rate none of my levels will reach more than 400 plays anyway. ^.^) So how do you feel about sharing your levels with everyone?

2009-07-22 18:48:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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it's both positive and negative. positive side: -Others can see how certain mechanics work in your levels, and use it themself so only good levels will be on LBP! Negative side: -people copy it and republish it as they made it...they just change the title, description and icon and they're set. I'd gladly put my levels up to copy since they're crap anyway =P

2009-07-22 19:04:00 Author: oldage Posts: 2824

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My only thoughts are that if you end up with 10 kids publishing the level as their own and getting thousands of plays and hearts, and you have "buyers remorse" because you feel powerless to control your own artistic material and people are accusing YOU of copying THEM.... please don't post a thread back on this site complaining about the results.... I personally think its a bad idea because more players will use it for bad than good. I would suggest instead publishing a level that shows how the TECHNIQUES are accomplished in your level - more of a technology showcase.

2009-07-22 19:09:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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@oldage: Exactly. I expect them to get copied and republished, but hope that they will at least help one or two people out there. (There probably better levels to learn from and levels that people would be more interested in seeing how the things work than my level) @CCubage: Oh, I won't. I'd be surprised if many people were actually republishing them given popularity of levels.

2009-07-22 19:11:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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Popularity only depends on how often you're willing to sit and republish to get plays. You may feel right now it's not a big deal, but look at what happened to AAAlone. You just need to soul search how you'll feel if your 400-play level suddenly is on page 1 of cool pages getting tens of thousands of plays because a kid published it as their own and republished until it hit cool pages. I've helped people take levels of your calibur and get 15,000 plays out of them easy.

2009-07-22 19:14:00 Author: CCubbage Posts: 4430

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Hmm, true. I will see how it goes. Edit: Right, soul-searching done. What I will do is make all, but my latest creation copyable. Unless someone notifies me I will probably not find out about copy of my levels seeing that I rarely look at the cool levels. And pray that MM allows us to make levels copyable but not republishable.

2009-07-22 19:15:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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It's completely up to you, Syroc. I hope the reason isn't because they've 'only got 400 plays' and you're not proud of what you've done anymore. As you've said, you don't look at cool levels, so the amount of plays doesn't seem to mean that much to you. It's your choice, but I hope you reconsider.

2009-07-22 19:57:00 Author: MrsSpookyBuz Posts: 1492

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I have 19 levels up right now, one is copyable as a demo to show how to make sack following lights, most are locked and i got plans to make my introduction level copyable if anyone wants it, i don't really have a problem making my levels copyable because i know that i made them orginally and those guys copying are just losers, lol, the only reason why my other light levels aren't copyable are because i made them before every1 found out about the ptd and wanted to keep it a secret but, in general it's just the creators call on if u make a level copyable, just thought that i'll add

2009-07-22 20:04:00 Author: springs86 Posts: 785

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@MrsSpooky: I'm very proud of what I've done especially when I look back and see how my levels looked at the beginning. I still love them all, except a level called "Lets play football", which I think is a bit poor. The feedback I'm getting here and elsewhere isn't really helping me. I'm less and less convinced that it is a good idea to leave them copyable. Maybe I should just make more prize bubbles again, because I would be extremely proud to see one of my creations appearing in another level even if that level consisted only out of pre-made stuff.

2009-07-22 20:10:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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@MrsSpooky: I'm very proud of what I've done especially when I look back and see how my levels looked at the beginning. I still love them all, except a level called "Lets play football", which I think is a bit poor. The feedback I'm getting here and elsewhere isn't really helping me. I'm less and less convinced that it is a good idea to leave them copyable. Maybe I should just make more prize bubbles again, because I would be extremely proud to see one of my creations appearing in another level even if that level consisted only out of pre-made stuff. Like I say, it's totally up to you. If you feel like leaving a few more prize bubbles into your levels, it sounds like a good idea to me. You could put a speech bubble somewhere near the prizes to alert those who have got prize bubbles switched off. If you want to leave your levels copyable, you're completely at liberty to do so - but may I suggest that your are too good a creator to let them go so freely. Just my opinion.

2009-07-22 20:17:00 Author: MrsSpookyBuz Posts: 1492

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I know i'd never make my levels copiable, but its really a matter of opinion. If someone ever wanted to ask me how something worked, i'd tell them, or make a quick edit to a moon level and show them (yay for tetherless jpacks!) I know i've occationally been able to use a copied level to improve my creation skills (now i can make elevators better ) but i think the majority of copied levels end up republished. The real problem with making things copiable is that once 1 person has copied it, you lose control of the problem. Because any 1 person can make their level copyable as well.

2009-07-22 20:27:00 Author: Burnvictim42 Posts: 3322

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once 1 person has copied it, you lose control of the problem. It would be so cool to make 'locked copyable levels' that are open levels that are copyable but only to my moon so that people can see how they work and can't republish them EPIC WIN FOR ALL

2009-07-22 20:36:00 Author: springs86 Posts: 785

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I'd say instead make a "behind the scee" level with a tetherless jetpack and all the switches uncovered/ reachable/ viewable. That way they can see how everything works and nothing gets stolen (directly at least). But if you wanna make your levels copyable, then go right ahead, its actually a good thing, only that people turn it into a bad thing when they copy-republish it as their own. But its your call at the end, so if you wanna do it, then do t.

2009-07-22 21:06:00 Author: Silverleon Posts: 6707

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But if you wanna make your levels copyable, then go right ahead, its actually a good thing, only that people turn it into a bad thing when they copy-republish it as their own. I could not agree with that statement more. I saw this post when you first wrote it, and I pretty much expected the response that you have got. Whilst I commend your willingnes to give back to the community, I totally agree with all that has been said here. People don't look to copyable levels to learn fom them. They just copy them, republish and republish and republish and republish until they get a better response than the original creator. I personally wouldn't make anything copyable unless I wanted people to take it and use it as their own. Not until MM gives full control to the original creator. If I give something away, it's yours... to do with as you will and I expect no credit. Why? Because I know credit will not be given in the vast majority of cases. Most things I'd be happy to give away, some things I'll keep for myself. For example: demitters I put in the public domain - I want every creator to benefit from them, because they have so many uses. Conversely, my wheelie good switches are for very specific things and I (maybe selfishly - it has been suggested by some and it may well be true) want them to belong to me. At the end of the day, making a level copyable just hands it out to all and sundry. A lot of people who play this game just don't have any notion of respect.

2009-07-22 23:16:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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Cool... can't wait to see 40 copies of your levels clogging up the pages while everyone in the showcase, and on other sites, is trying to get some plays... including you. If we all set our levels to copyable, and people keep on making trophy, H4H, anti-H4H, empty joke levels, and spam then LBP will get to the 2 million levels mark in no time!! You'll join the ranks of Moving Parts, Distress in the Ocean, Desert Survival, Little Big Matrix, and Difficulty Selector to name a few. If you're lucky, one of the people who republishes one of your levels will get onto page 1 of highest rated levels with it. Please don't do this. Seriously... you're better off putting entire sections of your levels in prize bubbles, as people who are likely to plagiarize it won't even know how to put it together in any logical way, and at the worst, it'll end up in a level with a bunch of crooked dark matter stairs and some kind of ridiculous tank. EDIT: I logged onto LBP just now and this is the very first thing I saw - "Commet-Powell achieved a score of [whatever] on Level That Plays Itself h4h copyable"

2009-07-23 01:55:00 Author: Unknown User

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I would also seriously recommend that you don't do this. It WILL get copied and re-used, and most definitely abused. The whole play, create, share ethos works at its fundamental level, but there are always people who will abuse the system to their own ends and for their own personal gain. Its happened many times (most recently AAAlone). When I first started creating, I wanted to make my level copyable, but then luckily saw how many copies of copyable levels were floating around at the time and being passed off as their own (mainly Wex's Matrix level) and decided against it. Opening it to the mass public will only you cause you aggravation and regret.

2009-07-23 07:53:00 Author: GruntosUK Posts: 1754

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If you search littlebig matrix you will find 3 pages of my level. Thats about 40-50 copies (last time I checked probably more). Of that I am credited in 3 copies. Problem with this is, even if you stop doing it, it will continue as other people publish it as copyable and people copy from them. To be honest i feel a little embarrassed that my levels are being spammed about the place and there is nothing i can do to stop it. I am still seeing people publilsh new versions of my level still and I only made it copyable for about 2 weeks I don't know how many months ago. The worst thing is when I recieve messages from people saying that I copied my level from "blah blah" (who has published one of my copyable levels).... Those kind of mails just make my heart sink.

2009-07-23 09:47:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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Yep... wexfordian is the root of all problems in Little Big Planet.

2009-07-23 09:52:00 Author: Unknown User

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Yep... wexfordian is the root of all problems in Little Big Planet. *Hangs head in shame* I'll get my coat.

2009-07-23 09:54:00 Author: wexfordian Posts: 1904

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I concur with the people saying don't do it. It's not a matter of 'if' someone will copy it and publish it as their own, it's a matter of 'when' and 'how many copies' DON'T DO IT!

2009-07-23 09:54:00 Author: TripleTremelo Posts: 490

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Alright then. My will is weak. I'm making them uncopyable again after I downloaded the Katamari demo. (HK and Jap. store if anyone is interested) I will give away more objects, but hide them well. I just love giving things away and helping others too much to not do it.

2009-07-23 10:10:00 Author: Syroc Posts: 3193

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If you really wanna share that bad you can still give copies to your friends. Just make sure it's people you've known for awhile, that are good creators. People who wouldn't publish as their own, make totally sure you trust them.

2009-07-24 13:27:00 Author: TripleTremelo Posts: 490

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Looks like I'm late to the party again! Sorry. I do have to chime in however, so brace yourselves for my two cents. Syroc, I honestly felt much the same as you when I published Moving Parts as copiable. I made it, and wanted to 'share' freely with a community which I saw as having the same creative impulse as I did. I was fully aware that someone could copy it and post it as their own, I just couldn't imagine that someone would be so low as to do it, and so what if they did. I imagined scenarios in which I'd come accross a level which included something from my level and was okay with that. So there you go, I published, and unwittingly opened pandora's box. There are currently about 5 or 6 copies out there. I'm over it now, but when it started it hurt. It was a couple of weeks before the first copy came to my attention, and I was deeply shocked by how violated I felt. I thought I had prepared myself for the possibility of a dupe, but the reality of it hit much harder than you can imagine. Perhaps that was because it first came to my attention when I began to get emails accusing me of stealing Gordy's level. I was pegged as the lack-wit, uncreative, unscupulous plagarist! I felt powerless and violated and sour towards the game. If not for the diligence and support within the LBPCentral community in the vindication of my name, I may have left off Little Big Planet altogether. I urge you, and anybody reading this post to seriously consider before publishing an unlocked level. I also urge you to share freely your ideas, inventions, and wonderful LBP creations with folks show interest. Copy objects or portions of your levels, and send 'em; create locked levels and share keys with trusted folks; post your ideas in these forums. By all means, keep the information flowing, but don't leave yourselves open to exploitation.

2009-08-03 16:53:00 Author: AAAlone Posts: 71

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I only have one level up for grabs, and that's my 1st Character Contest entry. Not much, anyways.

2009-08-03 17:03:00 Author: Outlaw-Jack Posts: 5757

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I have my red zone and blue zone levels copyable on my backup account. They have already gone through there 7 days and are burried to any new players. So i made them copyable i transfered tehm to my other account near the end of there 7 days. I just put in a little magic mouth with an advertisment for my levels, that would be hard to find and change for a totally lousy creater. All but one of the copies publish still have my advertisement in it, so i dont care. I was actually "cool" when i saw someone had published it ... it was on cool pages as a new publish when i saw it. The other thing is everyone that copied and published the level only republished maybe two times so they dont get any plays anyways, they dont know how to create and thus are not in tune with what it takes to push it up the cool pages to stick.

2009-08-03 17:13:00 Author: deboerdave Posts: 384

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Wanting to share with the community is admirable and totally with the spirit of play, create, share. However not everyone can appreciate this. It seems like a good idea until YOU start getting accused of stealing your own creations. I think LBP loses many good creators due to the disappointment of wanting to share and being met with accusations.

2009-08-03 17:14:00 Author: Lady_Luck__777 Posts: 3458

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One option is a "copyable, not publishable" system whereby people could copy your levels, mess with them in create mode, but be prevented from using the capture object tool while inside or publishing the level. This would allow people to publish a level copyable with the intention of teaching the LittleBigPlanet community without the fear of others republishing.

2009-08-03 19:09:00 Author: Killian Posts: 2575

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I really dislike seeing all those clones on lbp, simpsons, ocean in distress, the star wars levels, countless music levels clogging up new level spaces. I think the current system is way too open to abuse and I see no point in making your levels copyable. if you want to share ideas make a tutorial. heart for heart levels probably put more thought into their level making than these republished clones. just my 2 cents.

2009-08-03 20:20:00 Author: juscallmeJ Posts: 77

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i think they should have a copyright option in your levels....when you publish it...being the 1st copy in existence it obviously gets the copyright mark with your screename and such.... and then when you make it copyable...whoever copies it gets a warning message from Mm stating that if they republish it with their name (plagiarism) and are reported by the ORIGINAL creator then their PSN would be BANNED from LBP servers forever....needless to say they could play all their other games in PSN no problem but LBP would never enter PSN ever again....forcing their purchased DLC to become a waste of money and such i know it sounds extreme but plagiarism should not be tolerated....at all and if people still feel sorry for those a-holes plagiarizing then maybe that level would just get moderated and they would receive a warning of such anyone care to discuss my idea?

2009-08-03 23:30:00 Author: Shadowcrazy Posts: 3365

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It is a bit extreme. I think a better solution is the option to make levels copyable but not republishable. So people can see them in create mode but won't be able to just pawn them off as their own.

2009-08-04 05:47:00 Author: TripleTremelo Posts: 490

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eh i guess your right, just the thought of stealing makes my blood boil and to me it seems like a fitting punishment for someone who is stealing for personal glory, seems wrong but idk what else would work besides that idea

2009-08-04 06:59:00 Author: Shadowcrazy Posts: 3365

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if someone is giving out a free copy how is that stealing

2009-08-04 15:05:00 Author: deboerdave Posts: 384

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because some people are giving them out with the intent of people NOT posting it as theirs (plagiarism)

2009-08-04 16:07:00 Author: Shadowcrazy Posts: 3365

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i think they should have a copyright option in your levels....when you publish it...being the 1st copy in existence it obviously gets the copyright mark with your screename and such.... Copyright is automatic in almost every country in the world under the Berne Convention. The copyright symbol is pretty much meaningless.

2009-08-04 16:18:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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its not....copyright means you own the rights and someone copying off of your idea needs to pay or you can basically sue them for this....copyright has meaning...which is why people get arrested and fined big for pirating music, movies, etc. just because you don't notice it doesn't mean it isn't happening as for copyright on LBP i'm just suggesting a way that the mods in LBP can moderate any levels that aren't from the original poster and such

2009-08-04 17:53:00 Author: Shadowcrazy Posts: 3365

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Nah, you completely misunderstood me. I know all about copyright, don't you worry. If you reread my post, you will see that my point was that The symbol is meaningless, because: Copyright is automatic in almost every country in the world under the Berne Convention. To expand upon this: Copyright under the Berne Convention must be automatic; it is prohibited to require formal registration (note however that when the United States joined the Convention in 1988, they continued to make statutory damages and attorney's fees only available for registered works) .... In 1989, the U.S. enacted the Berne Convention Implementation Act, amending the 1976 Copyright Act to conform to most of the provisions of the Berne Convention. As a result, the use of copyright notices has become optional to claim copyright, because the Berne Convention makes copyright automatic. Everything you make in LBP is your intellectual property, although you have used some of Sony's IP to create it so it would qualify as a derivative work and they retain all kinds of rights to your work under the EULA. Other users have no rights to your IP.

2009-08-04 18:34:00 Author: rtm223 Posts: 6497

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it seems like a fitting punishment for someone who is stealing for personal glory No, a fitting punishment would be torture then murder. But that's illegal, so maybe just a lifetime imprisonment.

2009-08-04 19:58:00 Author: resistance1 Posts: 812

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nah id stick with banning their PSN from playing LBP...that seems worse then death dont you agree?

2009-08-04 20:27:00 Author: Shadowcrazy Posts: 3365

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I think LBP should have a system where you can make it copyable, but not re-publishable too. My only problem is in tutorial copyable levels, you may want to copy an object (not a real object, but just logic), to refer back to. They should make it so you can copy objects, and place them in your level, but not publish them in your level. That way, you can still have an easy to find tutorial object...

2009-08-05 05:57:00 Author: Sunrise_Moon Posts: 469

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GUYS GUYS I JUST THOUGHT OF SOMETHING: WHAT IF Mm MADE A TOOL WHERE YOU COULD LOCK INFORMATION FROM BEING CHANGED....THAT WAY YOU COULD MAKE YOUR LEVEL COPYABLE BUT: 1.YOU LOCKED THE TITLE AND THEY CAN'T CHANGE IT 2.YOU LOCKED THE DESCRIPTION SO YOU COULD PUT YOUR USERNAME IN IT AND IT CAN'T BE CHANGED 3. YOUR OBJECTS WITH MAGIC MOUTHS CAN'T CHANGE THEIR TEXT BECAUSE YOU LOCKED IT AND ALL OF THIS COULD BE BOUND BY A PASSWORD THAT YOU CREATE SO THE ONLY WAY PEOPLE COULD PLAGIARIZE WOULD BE IF THEY KNOW YOUR PASSWORD... THEY CAN STILL PUBLISH THE LEVEL BUT IT WOULD HAVE YOUR USERNAME AND ALL THAT AND PEOPLE WOULD JUST GO TO YOUR PSN TO PLAY AND HEART YOURS what do you guys think? sorry about the caps i just wanted people to read it

2009-08-05 20:52:00 Author: Shadowcrazy Posts: 3365

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